You guys don’t have to keep telling me that the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic exists. I know it and Smash bros trophies both exist. Those have little to do with my point of these story elements because I’m mostly interested in just discussing the Metroid games themselves. I also discuss the 2003 Manga because it’s widely seen as the definitive origin story of the series. It is true that some version of the manga story existed back then, but that has no relevance to this video about the games themselves. Also at 16:36 I mention that the Space Pirates never do anything explicitly evil on-screen in the original 4 games. Some commenters have rightfully pointed out that Ridley does kill the scientists on Ceres Space Colony. Ridley is a Space Pirate, but his motives are vague. Killing is evil, but it could be interpreted that it’s being done to serve a noble cause. We never hear the Zebesian’s side of the story, but it does seem to me like the Federation is trying to vilify an entire race - like they did with the Metroids. Also worth mentioning that Ridley himself doing something like that doesn’t mean every Zebesian agrees with his actions. The motive of the pirates is not made clear beyond what the Federation alleges, and that mystery allows for speculation. That’s what I was trying to say in the video.
I see i found someone who gets metriod as deeply as I do. I did make a video on my channel with terrible audio. but you mentioning the retcons of zero mission is somthing only I thought was an issue.
The Chozo raising Samus is a lore point i like a lot because it forces her to be more than just a bounty hunter.. she is still a vary cool bounty hunter dont get me wrong but Samus is also the last legacy of the dying Chozo people. it leads to this vary interesting ( and in my opinion refreshing narrative twist) , who chooses the chosen one ? god, fate, a magic sword ? NOT in Metroid ! Samus is flawed person chosen by flawed people the Chozo may be great but they are not gods and not all knowing. They know only this in there absence their will be a power vacuum one space pirates and the federation will try to fill, there needs to be someone neutral and powerful enough to stand up and protect ALL life in the universe they choose Samus but Samus is not perfect she hates the space pirates, trusts the federation and is vary quick to blow up a planet and yet she never gives up and dose ultimately seek to protect all life ! The chosen one dose what shes supposed to do not because its her fate but because its her nature. the Chozo reflect this too they were not meant to be enlightened bird sages they were once an empire just like the federation or the space pirates but they out grew of that.. they lived and learned did better and died out ( as we some day will) and yet the universe is better for having them in it not just because of the THINGS they left behind but because of that one time they decided to set aside their egos and raise some random human up to be a hero This i think is all really cool stuff narratively its still an amoral/morally grey universe but the people that populate that universe are another story ! They have ideas of right and wrong just like we do and Samus just as we do has to parse all that.. i think it adds some previously missing depth to tale !
Okay, but very much all the lore complains in the video were introduce in Fusion, through it's bonus gallery (Japanese version), not Zero Mission, not even the Manga. The Maga expanded on them, and give it's own take on those events, but Zero Mission is very much following through the Lore stablished on Fusion, as in INGAME lore. Fusion itself already follow more into the tone stablished in Super, where whatever take one my had from the old NES and Gameboy entries, still went for a clear portrayal of the Pirates as the villains, with Ridley as a main rival from the getgo, more disturbing designs for some of it's members like Draygoon and Phantom, and double down on the idea of forcing the Metroids as bioweapons. This wasn't deep storytelling like an JRPG of the time, even if Fusion later would give a dark twist to the Federation, they were aiming to make the Pirates clear villains through Presentation, marketing and even visual storytelling, with no more deep than Bowser and Ganon, just more "edge" and better presentation. And yes, other Mangas and Comics and even Manuals were also following this trend even before Fusion came out. I just feel that as valid as it is to have your own personal take on your first experiences with the older games, you may be over fixating on that personal head canon, over what was going on to the franchise as a whole both in and out of the games. I can concede that making Samus a Chozo Champion AT THE TIME, may had been to much. But The Pirates were never Metal Gear Villains, with tragic backstories. They were Space Dinasours and Bugs, cloning Vampiric Jellyfishes for Galactic Conquest. Also, sorry to bring up the obvious, but it has been 20 years of stablished lore vs the six years void between 1994 and 2001, with 2001 having the double punch of Fusion and Prime setting things up for new audiences.
The most the Space Pirates had going for them in terms of moral ambiguity was that in the Japanese manual for the first game, it's stated that the Space Pirates are controlled by the Mother Brain's psychic powers... and wasn't followed up on at all in Super Metroid as evidently the concept was abandoned. The manga came out at a time where the franchise had just come out of a hiatus and Samus and the world she ventures through needed some fleshing out if Metroid was going to be not one, but two series of games going forward. To its credit, though, the manga didn't completely do away with the idea of the Space Pirates falling under Mother Brain's control so far as redefining the nature of that control by establishing that the Space Pirates are weak-willed and liable to fall under the control of those with stronger wills (hence why Dark Samus is able to corrupt them so easily in Prime 3). It should be noted that Treehouse seriously botched Fusion's localization and made the Galactic Federation as a whole look far more evil than it actually is. They not only failed to distinguish between the Galactic Federation Parliament and the Galactic Federation Military, but also failed to specify that while the latter was at fault, it was a rogue sect of the military and not something endorsed by the military as a whole. Other M's retcon of introducing the "Ringleaders" was less of a retcon and more having to introduce a plot point they mistakenly didn't think was important in Fusion. That's why Samus and the Federation still have a working relationship as of Dread rather than the former being on the run from the latter.
"Maybe Ridley thought he was killing these innocents civilians for a noble cause, so he is morally ambiguous!" Seriously? _Seriously?_ The space pirates under the orders of Mother Brain are cloning a bioweapon. Mother Brain's explicit goal was to take over the universe. At best they are being controlled to do evil, but it was always clear that they are not called "Space Pirates" because they were peacefully minding their own business. This is some level of cope I can't comprehend.
I respect that the devs of Zero understood well enough that players of previous games obsessed over sequence breaking and speed running to make some pretty good alternate pathways.
17:33 one of the first things the manga establishes about the Chozo is that they used to be _just like the Space Pirates._ They have mountains of deadly technological advancements that seem crafted primarily for killing, because that's exactly what that tech was for, they were a warrior race that was the ruling power of the entire galaxy, no one could stand in their way as they conquered entire planets by force. It was at some unknown point in time that they gradually changed into the peacekeepers the modern civilizations of the galaxy know them as, coinciding with their decline in power and population, with the loss of their wings and ability to fly summing up that narrative symbolically, their weapons and technology are all remnants of what they once were. The Prime games, though a sub-series, also fix the black and white morality problem of the Chozo and Space Pirates in the grander scheme, by contrasting them against each other with their respective scan logs. Combine the Prime logs with the Chozo backstory from the manga and you get a concise set of themes that every game benefits from. To put it simply, the Space Pirates are a race making all the same mistakes and evils the Chozo would've also done, the Chozo ultimately evovled past those flaws, and the Pirates have yet do do so. The Pirate logs throughout the Prime Trilogy detail how their evil nature is ultimately a cultural thing, imposed on the race by its leaders and civilization, they have pets, fear death, can disobey orders, and often have to put back in line through violence and intimidation, so they can continue being ruthless monsters, because that's what their culture demands of them, they are quite literally a representation of end stage fascism, akin to how humanity is depicted in Starship Troopers. There's absolutely a future where the Pirates make a similar transition as the Chozo did, there's hope for them to someday be better. But as long as they continue choosing leaders like Ridley and Mother Brain, that's unlikely to happen, they can't yet see beyond the value of power.
Awesome comment! I think you brought up some good points that he left out of his video which felt a bit strange to me. Paints a different picture than it really is.
Yeah that was an odd complaint. She’s built up enough of a reputation as a skilled fighter that the government just calls her up when things get critical. I’m sure she can go out “In those shorts and vest” and be fine. In terms of comfort, she sprints and leaps around in a bulky suit all day. Letting her skin breathe for a while must be nice.
My favorite thing about Zero mission is as a kid i didn't even know the flying insect boss existed because my cousin and i convinced ourselves the intended way to get super missiles was the morphball shinespark in Brinstar. So i literally found out about that boss probably 2-3 years later doing ny first 100% run. Blew my mind that we'd managed to fully avoid a boss on accident.
I remember we had a conversation back on your federation force video about Metroid lore, and you did mention that you found ZM harmed the worldbulding of the series. It's good to see you elaborate more on this and I pretty much agree with you on a good number of things. The biggest thing that I frankly, will never be on board of, is Ridley killing Samus' mother however. It seems that the intent was to make the encounters with him more personal in the games, but it ends up bringing artificial stakes to them instead, and it comes off as a way to retroactively justify why Ridley is Samus' nemesis. I feel like it was in an attempt to give the Metroid series it's singular "villain character" so it can be more like other Nintendo franchises. The funniest thing about it too, is that most Metroid games pretty much fail to capitalize on this retcon anyways, so you have this backstory that Ridley made Samus an orphan, but then in the games he's just this monster that shows up far too often because he became popular in Super Metroid. Gotta give props to Dread for not having him here though! Samus being raised by the Chozo is an interesting thing to talk about however. I agree that doing this did make the world of Metroid feel far smaller, and in ZM's case it definitely made things black and white. However I do think it opened up new possibilities for interesting stories in Metroid, and I largely appreciate the MercurySteam Metroid games in this regard for giving back moral ambiguity to the Chozo. Previous Metroid games post-ZM would portray the Chozo as the uncontested good race, but Samus Returns/Dread challenged that notion with the Mawkin and Raven Beak. The revelation that Samus has DNA from Raven Beak brings a ton of implications of why Samus was even raised in the first place, maybe the Chozo did love her, or maybe she was raised to become a super weapon... I think another thing the focus on chozo does that's pretty cool is the idea that they've actually helped to cause some of the galaxies biggest threats. It sort of frames the idea that the Chozo have made grave mistakes that have almost doomed the world, and it works well especially with the new lore in Dread. In general the addition of there being multiple tribes of chozo actually help expand the world again to me, as now it feels like we've only seen the small remnants of a much larger and more mysterious race. There could be, hundreds of different chozo tribes that might be far more ancient than the ones we see in Dread. I know this is far too early but I am pretty excited for when you get to the mercury steam games, I'd love to see you talk about the game's stories, what they get right and even what they get wrong (cuz i admittedly am a little biased, Dread is my favorite Metroid game and I have a lot of love for that game's worldbuilding and story). I also want to talk about some other aspects of the video I agree with, the bosses absolutely stink I agree! They're a massive downgrade from Fusion and in general the far easier difficulty is what prevents this game from being top-tier to me. Especially Mecha Ridley, I am very much in agreement that Metroid has a too much Ridley problem, and this boss fight exhausts it so much. The point on Sequence Breaking is really valid however, I have definitely underestimated Zero Mission's sequence breaks and this video gives me a more positive outlook on that. I'll def be thinking about all this during my next ZM replay. I do apologize for the length of this comment, I just find your videos to be some of the most interesting videos I've watched on this series and even discussing Metroid with you on previous videos was very enjoyable! If you read all the way to this I just wanna say, thank you :)
Yeah I’m excited to talk about the MercurySteam games because I feel like they do something really interesting. I feel slightly conflicted about some parts of Dread’s narrative, but ultimately positive because it’s clear it’s more of a sequel to the remakes than NES/RoS. The MS games finally start to expand on that lore that desperately needed fleshing out in the games themselves, but I do have some criticisms to offer with how they went about it. I appreciate your comments and I too look forward to reading/discussing with you.
I think dividing the Chozo into Mawkin and Thoha specifically prevents them from becoming grey and it kind of bothers me. Now the Mawkin are evil and the Thoha are the previously established good perfect Chozo. It would've been far more effective if there wasn't such a designated tribal division and there were just Chozo with ideological differences, perhaps the militarists were even the majority, which would make sense with how most of what we see of Chozo tech is weaponry, and how Samus was apparently raised to become a fighter.
@@Supahdenning I totally get what you mean! Having a definitive divide between two races does muddy some of the ambiguity a bit. I will say though I don't think I got the implication that the Mawkin and Thoha Chozo were the only two tribes of Chozo in the series, rather they're just two of the many different tribes of chozo (I'm pretty sure Prime 1 has its own tribe of chozo if I'm not mistaken?). I'd still argue that they've kept up some of the moral ambiguity with the Thoha (like how they even allowed Raven Beak to donate DNA to Samus in the first place, and it can't be of fear because none of the Thoha knew RB would betray them until SR388). I agree though that ideological differences would be less on the nose than tribe distinctions! You make a good point.
@@vipervio123 Prime 1 isn't Sakamoto so it can't necessarily prove more tribes. It is pretty open to interpretation though. And yeah, the level of hostility between the Thoha and Mawkin needs to be elaborated on more imo. Quiet Robe and Raven Beak are depicted as though they were friendly in the past, and RB was received well on SR388, but the Metroids were apparently already programmed to attack Mawkin? With the facts all laid out like that, I get the impression the Thoha are a bit of a slimy bunch.
@@Supahdenning I interpreted the separation of the tribes to be quite like the Mandalorian in The Clone Wars series, the Thoha were a more pacifistic sect that had become the dominant influence across the universe (considering their effect on the various Chozo communities in the Prime games more reflecting them) but they still had a warrior culture in the past.
Counterpoints to the story retcons; By having Ridley and the Space Pirates be responsible for the deaths of Samus' parents AND her adoptive bird dads, it paints them as a genuine threat to the entire galaxy. They aren't a small force that picks off fringe mining planets, but a co-ordinated force that attacks so consistently that its not unlikely for a survivor of one attack to encounter another. By having Samus raised on Zebes, it adds more to the idea that this isn't just a random Space Pirate base of operations, but a totally usurped planet, twisting the creations of the Chozo that were intended to provide and safeguard the galaxy into nightmares that torment and destroy it. It also explains why Samus was sent in the first place. It isn't just about revenge. Multiple Galactic Federation forces went down to the planet, got lost and were never heard from again. And then you find out that this spunky, young Bounty Hunter was raised on the planet? It would be so much cheaper to send this lone hunter down who already knows the layout of the planet. Also, if something goes wrong and she fails, its way easier to sweep under the rug. I don't think these take away from the overall narrative at all. Samus still doesn't know the truth behind the Metroids, she still doesn't know if what the Federation says is the truth or not. The story isn't about revenge, but she IS presented with an opportunity to grab it. This also helps explain the events of Other M. As hated as they are, seeing it from Samus' PoV makes her reaction clear -- The nightmare that took her parents, her home, her adoptive parents and her new home from her, the nightmare she overcame and finally KILLED in Super is now back. She was able to fight Ridley before because she had the adrenalin and the will to avenge her family and friends. With Ridley's death, the book of her past finally came to an end. It was done. It was over. She could relax. And then he comes back from the dead. How? Why? Is he immortal? How many times will she have to kill him? Can he even be killed? It all comes flooding back as a wave of PTSD. How much more will this ghost from her past take from her?
When you say “Samus still doesn’t know if what the Federation says is the truth or not”, I feel like I might be misunderstanding? Did Mother Brain not explicitly tell Samus in the manga that she intends to exterminate all known sentient life? Or is your point more about what’s in ZM specifically? If that’s the case, then yeah I can at least see where you’re coming from. I happen to think that basically none of what you described is even remotely interesting to me, but I can totally see why someone might find that engaging. Other M does expand on some concepts from this game, but I think the credit then goes to Other M and not ZM. I think ZM itself says VERY little about any of this new lore, showing only gallery images and quick scenes here and there in-game. Because of that, it feels like the game doesn’t have much to say with what it introduces. I think some sequel games like Other M and Dread finally start to expand on concepts from ZM/Manga.
@@FlatulentFetus The manga should have 100% been better communicated to the west, heck I'd take an anime or a movie detailing the early life of Samus ending on her being briefed for her mission to Zebes. Let them flesh it out more, clean up its rough edges. As for the truth, I meant with the Metroid series in general. She has no reason to distrust them, so it would still let her arc with the Metroids where she realises the grave mistake it was wiping them out, and then the twist of becoming the Metroid being hunted by the SA-X would still happen and be as impactful as before. It might make the universe feel a bit smaller, but I mean... they're at the galactic level. People are out there making names for themselves as bounty hunters. I'd say the universe is pretty small already. I'm not doing a great job of explaining my thoughts right now, got some mega crazy brain fog.
This doesn't really change your overall point about the lore, which is a totally valid take but i do want to clarify a bit about the timeline you presented. The revelation about the Chozo raising Samus on planet Zebes? Yeah that didn't come from the 2003 manga. In Fusion (2002), the japanese release had some extra ending art that we didn't get. Samus is shown as child, with the Chozo. Okay but that doesn't necessarily mean they're Zebes at least, good point. In 1994, surrounding the release of Super Metroid, issues of Nintendo Power had a Super Metroid comic in them which explicitly state that Samus was raised by Chozo, on Zebes, after the Space Pirates wiped out her colony (even named K-2L). This is explained by a Chozo (named Old Bird). If anything, the 2003 manga is just recontextualizing the Super Metroid comic as a canon prequel instead of a comic form of a game. Really enjoyed the video, and I haven't watched the fusion one yet so i apologize if you brought up the japanese endings in that video, just wanted to help clarify things for those who might not know Edit: I looked before making this comment if anyone else had mentioned it, but apparently I missed one as I just saw someome else from an hour ago. My bad for the repetition Edit 2: Sorry, i was going back through the Story section of the video while making the comment and I just noticed you edited in the JP Fusion endings, including one i totally forgot about that straight up shows Ridley killing Samus's parents? It seems like you're aware Zero Mission didn't do this?
I'm interested in your worldbuilding part of the video. I really never thought about how the increased emphasis on the Chozo affected the previous game's plots like that. Still though, I think it was a net positive overall. While Ridley killing Samus's parents (or mom more specifically) is a pretty old trope, it goes make him a much more engaging character since he's more than just an alien pterodactyl working as the space pirates' lapdog, but a sentient, intelligent creature with the capacity of malice and sadism. This also ties in well with the Metroids since they were bred to be weapons by the Chozo against the X parasite, but the baby Metroid in Super shows that they can be more than just scary jellyfish that sucks the life force from you're body. They can develop genuine bonds with other species like any animal. I think Mercurysteam has done a pretty good job developing the Chozo lore since Zero Mission because now instead of them just being space bird deities who can do no wrong, they're a race who have different factions and beliefs and aren't always as righteous as Samus was most likely raised to believe.
I really don't understand how the guy who made this video even interpreted the Chozo that way though. As if they didn't literally make the metroids, and colonize a bunch of planets before abandoning them.
Good point about the Metroids. I think its a nice parallel to Samus in the sense that she was also trained to be a pawn for others and has potential to be good and evil. I think most of these changes in general do a good job of differentiating the series from the Alien films by framing the borrowed elements (greedy villains, bioweapons, artificial intelligence) in a different way to form a unique identity for the series
Zero Mission actually isn't the only game that acknowledges low% runs. The Japanese version of Fusion has gallery images for 1% runs. It seems to be a recent discovery actually. Most sources I've checked either don't bring up those ending images at all, or say they can only be viewed in Zero Mission's Fusion Gallery. But i have confirmed, those ending images were obtainable in Japanese Fusion all along for 1% runs.
@@FlatulentFetus Good news is, if Hard doesn't do anything other than reduce expansion provisions and available health, then 1% Fusion on Hard should prove doable. I made a 1%/No Damage series for Fusion some time back and I can tell you that while it's still inane in its design, it doesn't have the ugly farces involved in Zero Mission's Low Percent.
the mzm sequence breaks are such a chef's kiss. they're the right amount of difficult for how tight the controls are, and you feel like an absolute badass after being able to pull one off on command. there's a few in super, like speedballing around, wall jumps, and bombs, but mzm amps it up to 11 and it's so worth it.
Ive been eagerly awaiting each one of these. This is the best Metroid retrospective series out there and I hope more people start checking it out. Keep up the good work, man! Thanks for the great stuff!
If you were disappointed in the Mecha-Ridley fight, I think you might be pleased to learn (if you haven't already) that it takes much longer to defeat if you have all of the items and upgrades when you enter the fight.
Dude, I just got done watching your other videos after they popped into my recommendation the other day! I'm very excited to hear your takes on Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Dread (as those are my two favorite games). I'm even excited to hear you speak on Metroid Prime: Hunters and Metroid: Other M (as the former is pretty forgotten, minus Sylux, and the latter is, well, you know). Happily a new subscriber!
@@FlatulentFetus I don't know if I've ever met a person who dislikes the lore Zero Mission/the manga introduced, yet likes Other M. I very much disagree, but I respect your opinions!
I guess the short answer is that ZM shits on the lore without even trying to tell much of a story. ZM itself does very little to try to add, it mostly feels like it just takes away from the mythos. Other M similarly shits on previous lore, but it at least does so while trying to have an interesting story.
Great video man. I don’t think I’ve watched anyone go as in depth with this amazing gba game as you have and I look forward to watching more of the Metroid videos
I like the new lore it enabled a closeness to the chozo in Prime and Dread, but it did make the world feel smaller even if it was already small. I feel like they make Samus' character more complete, Samus is a mostly static protagonist like Goku (DB) once we learn her story we don't have to focus on her as much and she can be plopped into situations for adventures. She's like Link, once we know her character we can nod and just focus on the story or just ignore it.
Mind you that Goku was not static for the first several arcs of DB, it's after marrying and having a son that his character is largely complete and he becomes apparently "static". What this would suggest is that Metroid could do prequels I guess.
I would argue in the case of the Space Pirates. There was never any intent to portray they as being anything but evil. There are the old manuals which call them evil sure, but even Prime 1 depicts them as complete monsters, with the exprriments they conduct showing a blatant disregard for life. Fusion releasing the same day as Prime then acts as a mirror showing that the Galactic Federation and the Space Pirates aren't so different. Both willing to do whatever it takes to push their agendas. The moral quandry still exists even with Samus being a more moral character because she is working for people who are morally questionable and doing things that are questionable at least in later games. Her feeling morally justified in taking this mission for the Federation leads her to the false perception that future missions from them are as morally justifiable. It is right to kill the metroids in the first game because the space pirates are evil therefore it is right to kill them in Metroid 2 to prevent any other evil from using them, except no it's not because they are a nuetral party and capable of empathy as shown by the infant metroid. There is still a character moment there. I honestly think not much changes about samus' arc with the Zero Mission Retcons. She is still blindly following orders int eh first game, confronted on the consequences in the second game, suffers loss n the third game and then has to face her sins in the fourth game. I can agree that the added lore removes ambiguity and scope from the story though. The Chozo being so universally depicted as nice or good, makes them seem less like a real civilization and more like how western films depict native americans. As these magical bush people who can do no wrong. Even with the Mawkin being introduced. It's still the good chozo versus the bad chozo. When less information was provided, more was up for interpretation. It seem like the fate of any long-running series or story. In real life no one really knows everything that has ever happened. Attempting to form a cohesive in depth narrative where everything makes sense requires you to cut out the things about life or a story that can't be neatly categorized. Hence things getting more simplistic with the more you know.
I think that’s completely fair, but I do share why I don’t account for the Prime games much in this video. Beyond that, I more or less completely agree.
Man I never really thought about how the new lore hurt or hindered Metroid. By the time I really got into Metroid all the lore was there and had been long enough that I accepted it as something that was always there.
The reason you didn't think about it is because it doesn't harm the story or lore. It provides a personal reason for Samus to do what she does. Otherwise, her reason would be either pure altruism or monetary greed.
@@Deadwolf27 They're the same thing. In order to discuss something you must formulate an argument (aka an opinion/stance/position/feeling) and defend it and reinforce it. Otherwise you're talking at somebody, not with them.
One cool thing about Zero Mission is that it includes the NES game as a bonus feature on the same cartridge. Makes it really easy to play both and see how they compare.
Im so glad the comments about your point abt the lore are nuanced and sincere, and not a echo chamber of disagreement or a feces flinging contest. Your video essays are intricate, well crafted, and has challenged my perspective about the whole series while remaining entertaining. You deserve all the good grace coming to you
I think Zero Mission came out after, or at least close to, the release of the GBA SP. The colors were likely designed to look good on both. But the devs didn't completely account for the GBA screen in every case. For instance, SA-X has a near identical color palette to Super Metroid Samus on the uncorrected color scheme. Similarly, the filter can make ZM Samus look desaturated compared to Super, which I doubt is intentional given the artstyle.
I wouldn't go so far as to say any game in the franchise outright "ignores" the continuity of another. The story in most Metroid games is minimalist enough that there isn't much continuity to be ignored in the first place without bringing in secondary sources like the manga. I think it's really more a difference of the implications a western audience drew from that minimalist presentation, vs different perspectives and world view of the original Japanese creators. I mean, notably when the western developed Prime trilogy wanted to include actual bounty hunting missions where Samus tracks downs and captures targets for money they were told flat out Samus would never do anything so mercenary. Turns out "bounty hunter" being a loan word in Japan, they had no idea what kind of profession it actually was when they originally chose to call her one. Simply put, while western audience used particular word choices to interpret the character as more morally gray, whereas in Japan she was always intended as a more pure and righteous hero, similar to her contemporaries like Link and Mario. All that said, I'm not a particularly huge fan of the manga, and I agree tying everything so closely together makes the lore feel entirely too small. That said some of the ideas are older than that manga. Notably, Samus having been raised on Zebes had already been introduced as an idea in a Nintendo Power comic as far back as Super Metroid. I do think at least some elements, however, make sense. While I don't think it needed to be on Zebes specifically, I do think giving Samus a connection to the Chozo makes sense for explaining why her unique battle armor is compatible with relics found in Chozo ruins. Likewise, while I don't think she needs a lengthy history with Motherbrain, I do think Ridly being responsible for orphaning her works with him being her most recurrent archenemy and nemesis across multiple games. Maybe he shows up a bit too frequently, but if where stuck with him, it makes sense for him to be an equally prominent figure in the lore.
compare much later when in the opening to Dread, Adam is flat out discussing the compensation for the ZDR mission not being sufficient for the difficulty and on the job hazard of the job as Samus comes in for landing. Sakamoto seems to have shifted slightly on the mercenary aspect of the job over time.
@@TenebraeXVII I believe their interpretation of Bounty Hunter was always closer to a Mercenary. So she was always meant to be paid for her work, but always worked for the Galactic Federation. The main difference is that Western mindsets view Bounty hunting as being more neutral and not favoring any particular faction, and that the money was the main reason for involvement, rather than simply being payment for the job they likely were going to do anyways (think about how often Samus gets herself involved rather than waiting for the gig). But I could be wrong on this, it just seems to be the most consistent with the Japanese viewpoint of Bounty Hunting I've seen, or at least from Nintendo.
@EmeralBookwise I agree, I think Ridley being part of a big event of Samus' life works fine, they were a galactic threat so her coming across them is very likely. But the part of Mother Brain also being part of her childhood is something I never liked. Luckily the games never outright confirm that, and the manga is surely not canon when you consider how much it contradicts the canon of the game its meant to be an adaptation of! But I'm fine with the idea that the Pirates created Mother Brain using the tech stolen from the Chozo, like the Central Units shown in Dread.
From what I can tell, the most egregious examples of the manga making the world feel smaller are basically absent from the games themselves. The most we get is the fact that Samus was raised by the Chozo, and that Ridley killed her bio-parents. Samus’ whole history with Mother Brain js never actually explored in the games, nor are the finer details of her raising by the Chozo.
I’ve tried the 1% run on Metroid Fusion and the 8% and 9% runs on normal and hard mode on Zero Mission. Never again, lol. Mother Brain and Mecha Ridley become wars of attrition having only 2 or 3 missiles to attack with each round.
I genuinely don't know how you beat Mecha Ridley without Screw attack. Its much too hard balancing jumping around the lasers and claws while also shooting the missiles locked onto you. With Screw Attack you can just go through the missiles and therefore ignore them. But obviously Screw Attack is only available for a 15% run, not an 8 and 9% run.
One thing I want to say is that it's not the entire Federation that wanted to create the Metroid breeding program in Fusion. The localization makes it sound like that, but that's simply a poor translation of events. In the Japanese script it's simply a secret faction within the Federation. Also I disagree with the notion that Metroids had ever been painted as evil. After the events of Metroid 1 the Federation had deemed them too dangerous to be left alone. It was better to eradicate them then and there rather than take the chance of someone else using them for evil like Mother Brain was attempting to do. I'm not trying to say you're wrong to think any of this, by the way, I just wanted to offer my point of view. (Also I haven't seen your Fusion video so I apologize if you already brought up the translation point there)
This was moreso brought up in my RoS and Fusion video, but the only explicit mention I can recall is RoS’s manual calling them terrible and destructive. That is just a manual, not the game itself, so I totally get why people might not care or notice. It's totally fair to point out that there are plenty of ways to interpret these story elements, and disagreeing is valid.
Oh man, so much to say for one of the best games ever made. I'll go with the soundtrack. Another of the best title themes ever made to start- Prime 1's is also a Masterpiece. Yamamoto was so brilliant, a shame he's not doing the music anymore, it really is. Zero Mission turns what sounds like 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' into something incredible. The reprise of the Chozodia stealth/alert theme within Prime 3 was also a pleasant surprise.
I believe the Chozodia alert theme is actually a remix of Super Metroids Brinstar Theme prior to getting bombs. So while you explore the ruins of the Mother Brain area and fight some Pirates you hear that theme! But once you get bombs the normal Brinstar/Crateria themes play and you never hear the "pirate" theme again. It's basically considered the "pirate" theme for this reason, as its always in sections with you exploring a pirate homefield, like one of their ships or their "homeworld" (well, one of many homeworlds I suspect).
This video is incredible well done you have great insight and passion for the series, just on the ending card stuff mentioned there's a bit in the Nausicaa art book were Miyazaki laments having to do standard heroine drawings of Nausicaa smiling and posing because they disconnect her from the story and world, that's kind of how I feel about Metroid's end cards a demonstration of Samus' daily life or something that hints at deeper or just fun characterisation would be cooler to see in the future.
19:20: in my personal head canon, the events of the Prime Series can be a pretty decent explanation for Samus’s drastic change from righteous hero who saves Zebes to gun for hire who destroys the Metroid’s and Zebes for good.
I quite literally finished this game 10 hours ago, for the first time. Now here I see you've uploaded this video 5 hours later... This is fantastic news!
Honestly , one of my biggest problems with zero mission is lack of any challenge on normal run , especially when compared to fusion , or even sometimes super , where dying occurred quite often to make me think of the situation and how i will solve it. This ended up for me not having much fun playing zero mission , because it was that pathetically easy , even on the first run , when i didn't know what to expect. It seems kinda odd to me , that this topic wasn't discussed in depth in this video , but anyways i enjoyed watching it. Can't wait for prime 2 video!
Most of us played this as a kid so I never found it easy until I replayed it recently. Still I did almost die a couple times. As an entry point in the series I think the difficulty is perfect and there is a hard mode unlocked once u beat the game.
The reason its so ridiculously easy, is because its actually balanced around 15% runs! They couldn't make the main game much harder without making 15% runs too ridiculously hard or even impossible. Try a 15% run to see how difficult the game can be! There are even special ending images for them!
Zero Mission rules. I played the original Metroid a ton as a kid but couldn’t finish it. It was so labyrinthian and spooky for a game standing with colorful cheerful games like Super Mario, Zelda and Mega Man. Years later after many more games and really growing to love Metroid games, playing this version was like revisiting some specter from the past and gaining some absolution by finally finishing it. I played through the original all the way after and now love both versions even more. Cool to hear your thoughts on one of my all time favorite game! That was nice.
I try to be rather open minded, and I -can- understand your frustrations....but I also completely disagree with the thoughts on the lore. I do see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, I think think you're not seeing the full picture. To attempt to elaborate: I feel Samus' personal connection to Zebes and the Metroids only enhances the story. She has to live with the fact that *her* people created the galaxy's greatest threat in an attempt to save the galaxy from perhaps an even greater threat. The Chozo *are* still mysterious, we've only seen 2, and one turned out to be evil. And, yes Samus's journey in Metroid II still has it's weight because, again, her people *created* these things. She isn't just on some righteous mission she's also trying to right her long gone family's well intended wrongs. I could go on but, yea I just cannot agree here
I think Samus's connections to the Chozo, Zebes, the metroids, and the space pirates adds juice and spice to her character and world. It makes her not a 100% blank slate and Nintendo realizes this with the Prime Games, Samus Returns, and Dread.
I don't really see how the modern lore is worse from the original one. Without that lore, Mother Brain is nothing but some random evil brain and Ridley is just some monster. Sure, the universe may feel smaller, but it has more substance, it has actual characters rather than excuses for a plot.
Admittedly the chozo being alive and well raising Samus rather than a long gone civilization is something that really bothered me too, but I find it easy to ignore that for the most part.
I actually really like the relationship between Samus and the Chozo. I feel it gives the narrative more emotional impact throughout the series, especially in Metroid Dread. But I agree it was stupid that they wrote Ridley and Mother Brain into Samus' past, particularly having Ridley as the one who killed Samus' parents. It also lead to THAT scene with Ridley in Metroid Other M. I know a lot of people try to defend that scene by referring to how PTSD manifests differently and unpredictably in real life. However, the *presentation* of Samus' coping with her trauma after Super is grossly inconsistent with how she's portrayed in literally every other game in the entire series. Fusion is the only game that portrays Samus somewhat similarly to Other M, but just barely. I've also heard that the original Japanese version is appreciably different, suggesting that the Western localization of Other M carries a significant portion of the blame. I also don't think the Metroid manga is entirely canon. For example, I remember the Metroid manga showing Samus working with Adam and others during her zero mission, while they obviously don't in the game itself. Regarding the Prime games, I'm pretty sure they are confirmed to be canon, so they should be held to the continuity of the 2D games. However, I think the minor details in scan logs are insignificant enough to not be a big deal, and likewise for small retcons like the number of times Samus has worked with the Federation. Something like that is bound to change during the life of any long-lasting series, and it doesn't have a considerable impact to the overall narrative and character development.
I don't think he was suggesting that the manga was explicitly canon, but that after the manga a lot of ideas from it were adopted into Metroid lore going forward. Granted, Samus being raised by the Chozo predates that manga by quite a bit, enough so that I think the devs at least had this idea in mind during Super Metroid's development.
@@GoeTeeks Okay. But exactly, I think we have wiggle room to say "this part of the manga doesn't show up in the games explicitly, so we can exclude it from the canon." For example, I don't think any of the games outright confirm Mother Brain's involvement in Samus' past. Just because it's in the manga doesn't mean that particular detail is canon. Although, perhaps the central units in Metroid Dread lend credence to MB being in Samus' past.
@@BradMcClung The Central Units seem to canonize the Aurora Units introduced in Prime 3, which suggest that Mother Brain was just a co-opted AU the Space Pirates utilized for Metroid 1 & 3. It's possible we may get a Metroid game that canonizes the Chozo having an Aurora Unit (that they may have even named Mother Brain) while Samus was raised among them.
@@BradMcClung Exactly, the Manga isn't explicitly canon and everything in it was either already part of the lore, or not adapted into the games yet. The depiction of ZM itself within the manga contradicts the game so severely that it really should not be considered canon. And the only aspect that is roughly adapted from it is the Dread Central Units like you said, BUT those are clearly NOT Mother Brain, despite some similarities. So still no need to consider the Manga canon. I never liked the Idea that Mother Brain was purely the invention of the Chozo like in the manga. I much prefer the idea that the Pirates, when taking over Zebes, stole the technology and changed it to their liking, creating the real Mother Brain. And if you add onto that the fact that Phantoon is connected to Mother Brain (its supposed to be essentially a ghost of it, or perhaps an interdimensional being tethered to our reality through the Mother Brain tech, but this fact was lost in translation, even in Other M where Phantoon's pressence was apparently meant to explain things). So then I like the idea that when messing with Mother Brain, they added some other stolen tech to the Central unit that allowed Phantoon to inhabit the machine and take over it. Making it a wholely unique situation caused by the Pirates. Though, while the pieces are there, that isn't explicitly confirmed to be the case, but I prefer that over the manga's origin of MB.
Oh, and the Prime games are indeed canon, and the director of the 2D games has been very keen to make sure they are even when Nintendo considered the idea that they should be separate canon. Even Mecha Ridley is likely designed to bridge the gap between ZM and Prime 1. As Prime 1 takes place right after ZM and introduced Meta Ridley as the way he is healing from the battle in ZM. So Mecha Ridley is most likely meant to be the origin of the mechanical parts used to make Meta Ridley, it even has the same weak point as a clear reference.
It’s so curious to hear the take about the lack of a scan pulse-like ability in Zero Mission, especially considering the initial backlash of said ability in Samus Returns - though I do agree with you, something like the x-ray scope would have been a nice addition
Hey i just wanted to say that this video appeared on my recommended and was suprised to how insightful it was. I realized thag i can't really see the entire video because it has spoilers for games i haven't played yet but i can't wait for when i can.
It's either my second or third favourite metroid game (samus returns top 1, fusior or zero mission top 2) The world is an awesome remake of nestroid, and the music and graphics are great too, the best tracks being kraids lair and norfair The only things I don't like are the new bosses (outside mecha ridley)
This was my first ever metroid game and it made me fall in love immediately. I started of by downloading roms of the gba games and branched off. I fell in love with this series completely because of Zero Mission and it will always hold a special place in my heart.
When I really look back on it all on the grand scheme of things, Ridley's constant inclusion in the games really packs no punch without context. He usually is one of the easiest or simplest bosses in every game he's in, and unless youre aware of he and Samus' history he's kind of just a guy that shows up a lot for whatever reason, lol. I think having that context elevates his presence a little bit. I think from a story perspective, kicking his shit in in ZM is cathartic if you know that he and Samus' first encounter ended in her nearly being killed by him after having a breakdown. It also makes his return at the beginning of Super more shocking from a narrative perspective. That being said, other than his ZM and Super appearances, hes usually not the standout in any of the other games I play. And i can definitely agree he's overused (I always forget about Mecha Ridley because hes so forgettable). I personally really like their connection, though. I see ZM's retelling less as a story of a hero destined for glory and more as someone who takes on a mission that forces her to confront her past demons. I personally dont think it robs any narrative significance from Metroid II or Fusion, but thats just my opinion. I've been binging all your Metroid videos and I gotta say, I love your approach to analyzing these games. You've done some great work!
I have now with this video watched everyone one you’ve uploaded. I’ve been playing most of these alongside watching them . Cannot wait for the next installment
Just stopping by to say that although I haven't played a single _Metroid_ game, I've enjoyed listening to all of these reviews in the background while doing other things. Keep it up, man!
I never noticed an issue with the music, but I’m used to pixel games with chip tunes of all varieties. For the visuals I do not care for the comic book style backgrounds, but they do help the game stand out in that area.
This video was so fun and comfy to watch, Metroid Zero Mission is one of the best remakes to the point where I’d consider playing it over the original, it funnels you through its locations smoothly while showing you where to go some of the time but allowing for player exploration and skillful sequence breaking for pros like you mentioned.
Your complaints about the story are well supported, even if I don't agree with all of them. I agree that connecting every facet of the story to Samus shrinks the universe, and like you, I dislike that. I don't think the Chozo could have remained mysterious forever, as a mystery is only interesting so long as it has mini payoffs to keep you engaged. However, the payoffs they gave us shrank the universe, as you said. I don't hate the reveal that Samus was taken in by the Chozo; indeed, it makes sense as to why she has this crazy powersuit that can utilize all these Chozo upgrades. And her being orphaned also gets her into their care. Probably shouldn't have been on Zebes, though. I disagree that (in the games) she is presented as a destined hero. Maybe in the manga (I haven't read it), but not in the games. The closest it comes is her final test that gets her her suit back, but that doesn't seem like destiny to me any more than a college exam makes you a Graduate of Destiny. No, I'd say the biggest offender in making Samus a chosen hero is the rewritten Chozo lore in Prime 1. The OG script did "prophesy" of her coming to Tallon IV, but it was ambiguous as to whether they were truly prophesies, or just the Chozo ghosts losing their grip on reality and perceiving her arrival as a dream when it was real. And even if it was them seeing the future, that's still not too bad, as it's not so much a chosen hero as it is, "oh, we're screwed, but looks like Samus might come and avenge us." But once they changed the script, they started literally calling her The Chosen One, Iirc. Side story or not, I can't really give the rewrite of Prime 1 a pass for that. They should have kept the original script, despite the plot holes (it's not like the rewrite has fewer holes anyway). Anyway, tldr, I agree the universe shrinking to surround Samus is a problem in the series, but I think Zero Mission itself doesn't contribute as much to that shrinking as you're attributing to it. Other games/media are more to blame.
That’s completely reasonable, I completely get where you’re coming from. And yeah I think only Prime brings up the whole fate thing in-game. The Manga leans on it, but yeah not in Zero Mission overtly at all.
I loved Zero Mission! Fusion, too! As a super poor kid, I was delighted whenever a friend gifted me the Metroid GB games. Fusion terrified me, and Zero Mission showed me how fun it can be to speed run a game. Great analysis, dude!
So... The idea of Samus being raised by the Chozo is not new to Zero Mission. Waaay back in the 90s, Nintendo Power had a small comic series of Super Metroid that first suggested the idea of Samus being raised by the Chozo. And Metroid Prime 1 also makes references to "the hatchling" as being their prophesized savior of Tallon IV in the the Chozo Lore scans. I've always understood "the hatchling" to be referring to Samus. I'm not sure how big of a retcon Ridley killing her parents is, either. And there's nothing really to suggest the the Prime series is its own canon separate from the 2D games. MP3 isn't really Samus "having" to take orders. She is instructed on a situate and chooses to investigate it. There are no terms or conditions she has to accept before being allowed to basically do her thing. She is given instruction throughout the game from the AU, but that's instruction, not orders. She isn't chastised for becoming too powerful or using powerful weapons in her arsenal, nor does she need to make a decision to disobey orders to do the right thing. The Prime series expands the universe by demonstrating that the Chozo have inhabited or at least visited many different planets. Metroids being on other planets isn't a huge issue either or a continuity breaker when they are still under Space Pirate control, but we'll see how it plays out in MP 4.
So much of this game is amazing. I wish I could experience it for the 1st time like I did in 2004. I remember liking their loyalty for changing just the color palette for the Varia suit, and wondering if I would get a chance to return to Brinstar after defeating Mother Brain. I could go on, it’s so good!
I have to nitpick significantly on the story part of this video. Metroid’s story is one I think has been muddled in waters of gameplay and localization. You mention Chozo not being mentioned by name in any game until ZM, but that’s only technically true if you look at game text (and also if you ignore Prime which predated ZM by 2 years). Super Metroid had all of the elements that ZM and the Manga expanded on in some sort of supplementary material or another. Samus being raised by Chozo, Ridley killing her parents, the character of Old Bird, these are all featured in things like the Nintendo Power comic and Super Smash Bros trophies, and they weren’t just made up by those entities for their own sake. Super was the game that Sakamoto made Metroid his own creative vision as opposed to his involvement in Metroid where he was mostly just helping get the game made and Metroid II which he had no involvement in. As much as I enjoy both you and Transparency’s videos and find your opinions on disliking this centralizing of the Metroid universe around Samus as a personal story, calling it a retcon and acting like it was some new thing brought in by Zero Mission and the tie-in Manga is just factually incorrect and I feel paints a dishonest picture of what Metroid was intending to BE creatively. Only those first two games are outliers in the greater scheme of the Metroid story and both of them have their reasons for being so: neither involved Sakamoto on a creative level. Super was a sequel to Metroid, but it’s also been likened as a soft remake of the original as well because it was the game Sakamoto used to recontextualize the narrative of the series as a character drama built around Samus, and that through line of personal responsibility and legacy and avenging her family both biological and adoptive is carried through Super with the Baby and return of Mother Brain; Fusion with her own image being perverted into a killing machine, and Dread with Raven Beak essentially being a dark mirror of the people that raised her. And again, if this isn’t what you want or enjoy from a Metroid story, that’s fine, but it wasn’t some sudden paradigm shift that came with Zero Mission, it’s been a part of the series for most of its existence starting with Super. Hell even the Manga, which was essentially a glorified advertisement for Zero Mission, was originally published online in 2002 as an E-manga tie in for Fusion and continuing into 2003 and 2004 in print format. Lastly the comment about the pirates being ambiguously evil is just outright wrong? Even if you ignore the NES manual which states that pirates stole the Metroids from a science vessel and killed everyone on board doing so, Super outright shows a space station full of dead scientists at Ridley’s hands, and Ridley was known as their commander even back then. There was never any question to the Pirates in Metroid being evil, and their goals have only ever been depicted as selfish and achieved violently. These are the same scientists that tell Samus that Metroids ARENT just mindless monsters but have peaceful scientific potential as well, so it’s not even conflicting with Metroid 2’s ending of making you self reflect on the morality of killing all the metroids in that game. Metroids are victims caught between the pirates ambitions and the Federations paranoia and it falls into Samus to carry on that legacy she has to bear.
I only allude to it in the beginning of this video, but I mention that I’m not interested in examining these games with a historical context. Part of that is that I really don’t care if ZM is where all of these ideas originated from. ZM is where these ideas first appeared in-game, so that’s why I take issue with them and bring them up here. The 2003 manga is also brought up because it’s still widely seen as the best way to understand the beginning of the Metroid narrative. Just because some version of that story existed before, I don’t think that really makes much of a difference. Also worth mentioning that the 2003 manga seems to take these ideas much further than Smash Bros or the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic ever did. You also mention that you have this issue with Transparency’s video, but they dedicated a segment to detailing those origins of these new story ideas. They specifically mention things like the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic, and they too seemed to take issue with Zero Mission in particular because that is when this stuff started appearing in-game. I didn’t bother outlining that difference because I’m not here to give a history lesson, and it existing outside of the games previously is irrelevant to my point. And about the Space Pirate thing, I think it’s worth mentioning that we only know that Ridley was on Ceres. Ridley is a Space Pirate, but there’s still absolutely room to interpret his actions as the Space Pirates doing something bad for a good cause. Ridley killing those scientists to achieve his goals could be seen as similar to Samus killing all the creatures she did in Metroid 1 + 2 for her goals. Killing the scientists is evil, but it could be interpreted that it’s being done to serve a noble cause. Also worth mentioning that Ridley himself doing something like that doesn’t mean every Zebesian agrees with his actions. I should have been more clear with what I meant by “Space Pirates” because though Ridley certainly is a pirate, the Zebesians are what I was mostly talking about. The motive of the pirates is not made clear beyond what the Federation alleges, and that mystery allows for speculation. That’s what I was trying to say in the video.
@@FlatulentFetus Thanks for the reply! I've been watching your series since the Federation Force video (which I'm glad to see people stand up for its merits as a game), and I know at least since your NES Metroid video you've had this mantra of not concerning yourself with the historical context of the game. Which is fine, really, I was glad to see someone could look at a game often seen as "outdated by the remake" as the original Metroid and find merit in its existence without having to justify it with "fair for its day" as a caveat. I personally am someone who is always interested in the historical context of a game's existence, because I find that intertextuality between the game's creation, its influences, and how it was perceived, marketed, and especially with Japanese games, localized. This is especially true for Nintendo games, which very often clearly have "external" lore and writing bits that are never explicitly made known in their games but clearly influence things that occur within those games (Star Fox is especially notorious for this). However, to play by your own metrics then, I still think it is unfair to peg Zero Mission as this paradigm shift in the lore. Yes, this is the first game to explicitly show Samus 1: lived on Zebes, 2: was raised by the Chozo as a child, and... that's it. Yeah, the gallery includes some extra stuff, all taken from the manga, showing her parents being killed by Ridley and the like.... if you happened to have a second GBA to access, a Link Cable, a copy of Fusion, and linked them up. They are bonus content that the average laygamer was not going to access casually, and most people came to know about that content through external sources on the internet... and at that point, what is the functional difference between some gallery screens and a crude fan translation of a Japanese-only manga? Yes, the manga takes things even farther, but that is sort of its point - the secret Fusion gallery is an easter egg meant to entice the player into looking deeper elsewhere. There are only two instances in all of Zero Mission that divulge into Samus's backstory: the opening narration when the game starts, and the mural near the end when Samus has to do the weird Chozo trial for her fully powered armor. The connection to Ridley, Mother Brain, her birth parents, even the whole "Chozo used to be a conquering space empire but then found their chill and decided to become a commune of hippies who literally can't act violently" lore is nowhere to be seen or even implied in Zero Mission's normal gameplay (and really only the connection to Ridley is explicitly shown in the obscure as all hell bonus gallery). For all intents and purposes, Zero Mission as a game taken on its own merits, makes exactly one change to the story we were given in NES Metroid: Samus used to live here... and that isn't even that weird of a change when considering what came BEFORE Zero Mission. My primary objection to including Fusion and Super in this "old 2D lore" perspective of Metroid is that while those games did not make much explicit mention of Samus' connection to the pirates, Ridley, or the Chozo, it was all still very much implied heavily. Even the far more narrative-removed NES Metroid and Metroid 2 have some implication: the very fact Samus' armor can interact with these power ups left behind by these undefined Bird Alien Statues that happen to exist across two totally unrelated planets (within the context of their own games) more than suggests a connection right there already, especially Metroid 2's redraw of Samus' armor making it more resemble the general aesthetic of the statues. Fusion was the original source of the manga-tie in gallery art, as well, it was simply region locked from North America because those endings were tied to Child Mode in Japan, so really part of what you put the blame on Zero Mission for is actually on Fusion.... which comes back to my original point: Zero Mission was not the paradigm shift. This shift had been ongoing for a decade at this point, slowly. Super had a comic tie in with explicit references in game (Crystal Flash, etc) laying the ground work. Fusion went further by advertising a manga that rewrote things further and fleshed material out even further, and then Zero Mission goes back to where it began and put the most notable of those rewrites (that Zebes was Samus' home for much of her life) into the game proper. The lore wasn't new, it was a decade running, you just couldn't *ignore* it so easily anymore... and like, again, if that's your problem, that's fine honestly, but it should be phrased as such. As for the pirates, I absolutely disagree with the idea anything that they do has any room for interpretation for good cause without playing so much Devil's Advocate you might as well be agreeing with him. Interpretation requires foundation, and there is no foundation in any Metroid game new or old that the pirates aren't evil. Saying not every Zebesian agrees with Ridley is like saying not every Stormtrooper agrees with Darth Vader: yeah, that could be true, but functionally that's not the point. Ridley is the Named Pirate, he's their leader, he is shorthand expression for what the pirates goals are, and he is unambiguously evil across all incarnations. Compounding that matter further is the scientists that Samus leaves the Baby with are unambiguously good: they're the ones that tell Samus that Metroids have potential for good and peace in civilization, and I think that's really important to note because the contrasting point there IS Fusion, where the Federation's interests in the X by comparison is NOT for peace, but for "studying its potential". Now we could use this intertextuality to cast doubt on the scientist's interests in the Baby in Super for sure given the Secret Metroid Lab in Fusion and all we have to go off there is Adam saying its for peaceful purposes and his only citation being "trust me bro", but 1: that is why I specifically mention the difference between the phrasing of "peaceful" for Metroids and "potential" for the X (as one suggests benignity and the other does not), but also 2: that's bringing Fusion into the equation. As far as Super, on its own is concerned, those scientists were good people and Ridley brutally killed the hell out of them and then kidnapped a baby animal so his cronies could zap it with radiation to create clones of it, the end results of which caused it to grow gigantic and ferocious and almost kill what it believed to be its mother (which we see at the end of the game). No amount of good intentions, explicit or implicitly assumed, really exonerates the Pirates of that. They killed a bunch of unarmed civilians, kidnapped a baby animal, then abused the hell out of it. That is the deck the Federation's, at best, Implied Normal Government Corrupt Military Industrial Complex Bullshit is up against. Even Fusion doesn't quite compare to what the Pirates get up to, even with Actual War Crime Nightmare being there, because at that point the score is like 1 to 3 against the Pirates across the entire IP. The pirates goals might all be Federation allegation, but their actions sure as hell don't cast any doubt as to what those allegations are.
@@CappnRob Zero Mission and Fusion are the in-game paradigm shift. I do mention in this video that someone could make the argument that someone could choose not to blame Zero Mission itself because it had a responsibility to follow up on the Manga. I also say I choose to criticize ZM anyways because it shows a lot of this in-game. You do mention that this didn’t start in-game with ZM, as Fusion also had this stuff in its Japanese version. I also went over that in my Fusion video, and I criticize it there for doing the same thing. I don’t think a link cable/second GBA being harder to find and the idea that most people would miss this stuff means that this stuff is functionally the same as external sources. Those are still completely different. I absolutely consider ZM to be accountable for including those gallery images from Japanese Fusion. I do criticize the manga for introducing so much to the series, and I also criticize ZM for not doing much of anything with this stuff. I thought it’d be self-explanatory that where you decide to place how much blame is purely up to you. I personally mostly blame the Manga, but I also blame ZM for introducing plenty of stuff and expecting you to read a Japanese-only manga. There are a good number of blurry lines here because of things like Japan only gallery images in Fusion, Japan-only manga, the relative obscurity of the Fusion gallery images in ZM. I’m primarily concerned with a modern perspective of examining the games themselves only, but the Manga was included in this conversation for numerous reasons. It’s widely regarded as the definitive and canon source of information concerning the origin of the series and it’s a huge piece of the discourse surrounding Metroid and especially Zero Mission’s lore. About the pirate thing, I think this seems to be forgetting a key piece of my statement in the video. I specifically mention that this potential interpretation of the pirates is in light of Fusion’s revelations. “Super on its own” is the opposite of the point that I was making. I go into that point and the Super Metroid Nintendo Power Comic point in my description a bit more in the pinned comment and the description of this video.
@@FlatulentFetus I, personally, do not place any blame anywhere. The story is a bit of a mess, but most stories are. The mess does not interfere with my enjoyment of Metroid. I take it all with a grain of salt, though if I had to criticize anything the most it would also be the manga for its general clunkiness and over-explanation of little details that didn't really need expanding on (though I do love my man Gray Voice). I suppose I am just perplexed by your blame of ZM. You say you aren't interested in these games in a historical context, but then you blame ZM for "expecting" you to read a manga that isn't easily available in English, but the English localization of ZM hides the only direct connection to the manga in a secret gallery. I think you put way too much weight on a small cutscene of Samus as a child with Old Bird looking at a mural, because that is functionally all ZM "adds" to the canon insofar as games are concerned. You don't need the manga to "get" Zero Mission, because all ZM changes narratively from NEStroid is "Samus lived here once", and it wraps that up at the start and end of the game with a single line of narration and a small cutscene. Bringing in the manga, the limited availability of it to a non-Japanese audience, the muddying of the lore that provokes when held up against the Super comic, Blood of the Chozo, Prime lore, etc, that's all valid but that's doing the very thing you said you aren't interested in: looking at ZM historically. If someone was to pop ZM in today, no exposure to any Metroid whatsoever, first game ever played, it wouldn't cause any problems. If someone was to pop in ZM today, and have only played NES Metroid beforehand, it would maybe raise a small eyebrow. ZM *only* causes problems with the lore when taken into a historical context of the IP as a whole, beyond just games, and even then its still reaffirming lore that existed before it did by a decade. When I was a teenager playing ZM for the first time and I saw Old Bird in it, I was elated because I liked seeing a character I previously only knew from the Super Comic being "canonized" in a game - I had no idea about a manga at that time (though I would go on shortly after to find out about it online). It feels dishonestly selective to criticize ZM for essentially having one additional cutscene in its post-game content as this huge expectation to read a Japanese comic book for The Extra Lore when none of that lore really affects the game itself. That's something Other M does far more than ZM (note I am not an OM hater but these are the facts in this regard).
@@CappnRob I suppose I should also mention that I start each of my videos, except for this one, with saying that I intend to discuss not only the games but also the reputation surrounding them. I said in the beginning of this one that I did not feel the need to repeat my usual song and dance about my perspective, but clearly in skipping this I’ve obfuscated some important context. I consider the manga too important to not discuss, and that’s because it’s also important to the reputation of the series. It’ll also be important to a few of the sequel games. I also consider it important because, as I said before, ZM’s gallery exists and repeatedly references it. You clearly do not think the gallery images are nearly as important as I do, which is fine, but my perspective is informed by that perceived importance. The manga may not be one of the actual games, but its effect on the games is too big to ignore for the kind of discussion I want to have. I also disagree that you need the context of the first game to feel confused about ZM’s lore. The sequels are also considerably hampered by the new lore, as discussed in the video. Also worth mentioning that whether or not the player can perceive the differences between NES and Zero is irrelevant to whether or not they exist in the first place. That’s part of why I say the game is serviceable in a vacuum.
Having played through most of the 2D games this year, I appreciate Zero so much as a complement to Fusion. I wonder how much you have to search for a similar case of a series deciding that they can go two pretty different ways and pulling it off to this extent.
Cant wait for the eventual prime 2 video based off the release scedule of the channel so far. Zero mission does well in remaking the game. Zero mission did alot of retconning and in the long run i dont mind the chozo being this group integral to samus’s backstory. Dread helped in making alot of the lore in the first 4 games important to the story but i see your points in how it changed alot of the world building
I have to agree with the pirate locations being cheap in the mothership. Doing that escape on Hard Mode encouraged me to cheese one of the elites purely to be rid of him
She's strong. The power grip was an upgrade for her suit that gave *it* the strength to pull itself up, but without the suit's extra weight, she can just do that, like lots of people can.
You said a lot about not wanting to repeat what you said in your NES video, but considering that it was an hour long, I would think it justified if you did recap a little more.
I actually love your points. I never thought about the lore that deeply, and while I don’t mind Samus being somewhat related the the chozo in a way, I like the idea of the space pirates being a separate threat not related to her at all, and maybe even being pretty intelligent as well. Considering they established theme-selves on zebes again with tech to monitor goings on like we saw in Super. Overall though. My complaints with Metroid are still pretty tame compared to other game series. I love Metroid a lot. Can’t wait to see what you have to say about more recent titles as well ☺️
Glad you liked our video on the subject! ❤ We've since moved on from the series after it took a bit of a toll on us trying to make a follow-up about Dread (we had to scrap it), but we're happy to have been able to put words on the issues regardless. Don't be a stranger, throw us a message if you like.
I bought Zero Mission on the Wii U virtual console shop, which I don't regret. That said, they definitely made the Mother Brain fight much much harder then Metroid or Super Metroid.
It was actually a complete coincidence. I took a month-ish break to start a new job, go on vacation, ect. I’ve been insanely busy at work, and I actually even just moved into a new place. The 3 month gap between videos was never planned but it lined up nicely with ZM’s NSO release.
It's got my favorite platforming puzzles with the multi stage shinespark item acquisitions. Speed boost to shine spark into speed boost into shine spark into speed boost into morph ball shinespark at an angle that sort of thing. Tons of high bomb jump usage intentionally...just very good. Super Metroid I think is overall better still, there's just a magic to the crafting of the rooms where it's like, a perfect pixel distance to being able to pull off a speed boost or shine spark in a lot of locations if you do it right, multiple ways to progress. But Zero Mission did s damn fine job. It's a close second for me.
People who claim that super's is a better game for sequence breaks are coping hard on nostalgia, holding onto an old game when it was clearly outdone by a future title. EDIT: I've done the low percent run as well and imo instead of getting 6 supers it was much more mentally acceptable to get 4 supers, 1 energy tank to allow an extra hit from the pirates via 49 extra health and finally the screw sttack. Because having the screwattack means you can destroy pirates in 1 touch and allow you better mobility in the mecha fight by destroying the missles with 1 touch also.
Screw attack would probably help against those missiles too since you could screw into them for an easy kill. I probably should have done exactly what you’re describing. The cool thing about 6 Supers is that if you’re skilled, you can pop off all 6 before Ridley has much of a chance to do anything. I found this difficult for my muscle memory with input delay on the emulator, but I can consistently hit Mecha’s weak spot rapidly on original hardware. But personally I agree with you in that it’d probably be more beneficial to make the escape easier than make Mecha Ridley easier.
Screw Attack also helps a ton in Mother Brain as the turret shots don't affect you during it and you also destroy the Rinkas as well! (though freezing the rinkas is superior either way).
My experience with low% mecha ridley was entirely different - there wasn't any combo of attacks that I couldn't dodge once I knew how, and I particularly found it engaging to have to shoot down missiles while keeping a space jump going. The only true "unavoidable" attack was if I failed to keep driving him back - if he crawled all the way forward, his claw swipe covered the entire play field and that was an OHKO. Far from being a detriment though, that added an excellent sense of tension to the fight where I had to pace my aggression and be pinpoint accurate to stave off this extra loss condition. And I know I was consistent at it by the end, decades ago now though it may have been, because the escape sequence and the elite pirates at the end of it kicked my ass countless times but I just kept getting right back into it without suffering many losses to mecha ridley in between. It was by far my favorite metroid boss experience until Dread, honestly.
@FlatulentFetus Burst damage, similar to mother brain. One super or 2-3 (forget the number) missiles in quick succession planted on the weak spot will do it. Once you know that, the key insight is to not go after his weak spot at all unless you know you can trigger a retreat - and if he's maximally backwards, to focus more on stocking up than aggressing. The missiles attack you can destroy for ammo may be random, but it's frequent enough that good pacing should always keep you from being fully cornered... or so my experience was running 15% with long beam. Goes without saying that the further back he is, the easier the rest of his attacks are too - dodges that work by rote early in the fight will often fail later on if he's crept forward just because the spacing is different. Between that and the pseudo-loss condition of him clawing when he's fully forward, the burst damage threshold is the most important mechanic of the fight. If you hadn't figured it out, it's no wonder you had so much trouble - I similarly couldn't grok why I could dodge some attacks easily and then would randomly die to it until the positioning mechanic clicked, and it was ultimately one of the undodgeable claws that made me realize what was actually happening. That's the main strategic concern, but for more moment to moment defense I generally favored going above the claw rather than crouching down - it works more consistently at closer ranges, and if he's firing missiles it gives me a clean shot at them earlier on. That said, even without doing that I'll note that the slow-mo shot at 1:03:28 was still saveable from crouch by either jumping to juke and shooting straight down, or alternating diagonal with horizontal shots like you would to wall off regular ridley's fireballs. Taking that attack from the air like I prefer is of course what leads to the wild-ass situation of dropping out of spin to shoot down missiles and then going back into spin to stay in the air to dodge something else before going for burst damage on my way down to land after that. My own criticism of the fight is that as clearly presented as hitting the burst damage threshold is, mecha ridley's positioning just isn't something you have any reason to notice in a normal run except as a bit of spectacle with him backing off from your powerful attacks - by the time you do low%, you have to unlearn stuff about the fight to have any chance, and they could have done more to draw attention to his changing position - continuing to change the lighting on him when he gets closer instead of just in the intro, perhaps.
Another thing about 100% you could have included was about the final boss; for whatever reason they made the fight much harder if you've collected 100% items, increasing his HP by a lot and also his damage. It's a different kind of reward that I can't remember seeing in any other game. And I'm not talking about "True Endings" and stuff like that, just the bossfight itself.
I've heard it said many times that Zero Mission renders the original obsolete, and I only partly agree because ZM contains a (screen crunched) copy of the NES game on the cart. I love both in their own ways. Some times I want the fast snappy shinesparky game, and other times I want the spooky floaty simpler game. I'm one of those weirdos that loves sitting down and doing a run through NES Metroid, and it isn't Nostalgia from before the series "got good" because I started with Super.
I understand why you feel the way you do about the Metroids story, but honestly, it's one of my favorite things about the franchise. I'm personally a huge fan of how the story centers around Samus Aran, but I also do agree that it makes the universe feel smaller; however, I think having a more personalized story is worth the trade-off of a less mysterious universe. At the end of the day, it's a personal preference thing; the story may work for some but not for others. I'm trying to make this comment not seem like I'm saying, "Well, you're wrong because I like it!" Because I definitely think that your perspective on the story is completely valid and understandable, even if I personally disagree. Either way, I love your videos on Metroid, they are extremely well done and made me love these games even more!
![Greatsword of Solitude No Hit Promised Consort Radahn - Elden Ring DLC [139-339]](/img/1.gif)
You guys don’t have to keep telling me that the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic exists. I know it and Smash bros trophies both exist. Those have little to do with my point of these story elements because I’m mostly interested in just discussing the Metroid games themselves. I also discuss the 2003 Manga because it’s widely seen as the definitive origin story of the series. It is true that some version of the manga story existed back then, but that has no relevance to this video about the games themselves.
Also at 16:36 I mention that the Space Pirates never do anything explicitly evil on-screen in the original 4 games. Some commenters have rightfully pointed out that Ridley does kill the scientists on Ceres Space Colony. Ridley is a Space Pirate, but his motives are vague. Killing is evil, but it could be interpreted that it’s being done to serve a noble cause. We never hear the Zebesian’s side of the story, but it does seem to me like the Federation is trying to vilify an entire race - like they did with the Metroids. Also worth mentioning that Ridley himself doing something like that doesn’t mean every Zebesian agrees with his actions. The motive of the pirates is not made clear beyond what the Federation alleges, and that mystery allows for speculation. That’s what I was trying to say in the video.
I see i found someone who gets metriod as deeply as I do. I did make a video on my channel with terrible audio. but you mentioning the retcons of zero mission is somthing only I thought was an issue.
The Chozo raising Samus is a lore point i like a lot because it forces her to be more than just a bounty hunter.. she is still a vary cool bounty hunter dont get me wrong but Samus is also the last legacy of the dying Chozo people.
it leads to this vary interesting ( and in my opinion refreshing narrative twist) , who chooses the chosen one ? god, fate, a magic sword ? NOT in Metroid ! Samus is flawed person chosen by flawed people the Chozo may be great but they are not gods and not all knowing.
They know only this in there absence their will be a power vacuum one space pirates and the federation will try to fill, there needs to be someone neutral and powerful enough to stand up and protect ALL life in the universe they choose Samus but Samus is not perfect she hates the space pirates, trusts the federation and is vary quick to blow up a planet and yet she never gives up and dose ultimately seek to protect all life !
The chosen one dose what shes supposed to do not because its her fate but because its her nature. the Chozo reflect this too they were not meant to be enlightened bird sages they were once an empire just like the federation or the space pirates but they out grew of that.. they lived and learned did better and died out ( as we some day will) and yet the universe is better for having them in it not just because of the THINGS they left behind but because of that one time they decided to set aside their egos and raise some random human up to be a hero
This i think is all really cool stuff narratively its still an amoral/morally grey universe but the people that populate that universe are another story ! They have ideas of right and wrong just like we do and Samus just as we do has to parse all that.. i think it adds some previously missing depth to tale !
Okay, but very much all the lore complains in the video were introduce in Fusion, through it's bonus gallery (Japanese version), not Zero Mission, not even the Manga. The Maga expanded on them, and give it's own take on those events, but Zero Mission is very much following through the Lore stablished on Fusion, as in INGAME lore. Fusion itself already follow more into the tone stablished in Super, where whatever take one my had from the old NES and Gameboy entries, still went for a clear portrayal of the Pirates as the villains, with Ridley as a main rival from the getgo, more disturbing designs for some of it's members like Draygoon and Phantom, and double down on the idea of forcing the Metroids as bioweapons. This wasn't deep storytelling like an JRPG of the time, even if Fusion later would give a dark twist to the Federation, they were aiming to make the Pirates clear villains through Presentation, marketing and even visual storytelling, with no more deep than Bowser and Ganon, just more "edge" and better presentation. And yes, other Mangas and Comics and even Manuals were also following this trend even before Fusion came out. I just feel that as valid as it is to have your own personal take on your first experiences with the older games, you may be over fixating on that personal head canon, over what was going on to the franchise as a whole both in and out of the games. I can concede that making Samus a Chozo Champion AT THE TIME, may had been to much. But The Pirates were never Metal Gear Villains, with tragic backstories. They were Space Dinasours and Bugs, cloning Vampiric Jellyfishes for Galactic Conquest. Also, sorry to bring up the obvious, but it has been 20 years of stablished lore vs the six years void between 1994 and 2001, with 2001 having the double punch of Fusion and Prime setting things up for new audiences.
The most the Space Pirates had going for them in terms of moral ambiguity was that in the Japanese manual for the first game, it's stated that the Space Pirates are controlled by the Mother Brain's psychic powers... and wasn't followed up on at all in Super Metroid as evidently the concept was abandoned. The manga came out at a time where the franchise had just come out of a hiatus and Samus and the world she ventures through needed some fleshing out if Metroid was going to be not one, but two series of games going forward. To its credit, though, the manga didn't completely do away with the idea of the Space Pirates falling under Mother Brain's control so far as redefining the nature of that control by establishing that the Space Pirates are weak-willed and liable to fall under the control of those with stronger wills (hence why Dark Samus is able to corrupt them so easily in Prime 3).
It should be noted that Treehouse seriously botched Fusion's localization and made the Galactic Federation as a whole look far more evil than it actually is. They not only failed to distinguish between the Galactic Federation Parliament and the Galactic Federation Military, but also failed to specify that while the latter was at fault, it was a rogue sect of the military and not something endorsed by the military as a whole. Other M's retcon of introducing the "Ringleaders" was less of a retcon and more having to introduce a plot point they mistakenly didn't think was important in Fusion. That's why Samus and the Federation still have a working relationship as of Dread rather than the former being on the run from the latter.
"Maybe Ridley thought he was killing these innocents civilians for a noble cause, so he is morally ambiguous!" Seriously? _Seriously?_
The space pirates under the orders of Mother Brain are cloning a bioweapon. Mother Brain's explicit goal was to take over the universe. At best they are being controlled to do evil, but it was always clear that they are not called "Space Pirates" because they were peacefully minding their own business.
This is some level of cope I can't comprehend.
I respect that the devs of Zero understood well enough that players of previous games obsessed over sequence breaking and speed running to make some pretty good alternate pathways.
17:33 one of the first things the manga establishes about the Chozo is that they used to be _just like the Space Pirates._
They have mountains of deadly technological advancements that seem crafted primarily for killing, because that's exactly what that tech was for, they were a warrior race that was the ruling power of the entire galaxy, no one could stand in their way as they conquered entire planets by force.
It was at some unknown point in time that they gradually changed into the peacekeepers the modern civilizations of the galaxy know them as, coinciding with their decline in power and population, with the loss of their wings and ability to fly summing up that narrative symbolically, their weapons and technology are all remnants of what they once were.
The Prime games, though a sub-series, also fix the black and white morality problem of the Chozo and Space Pirates in the grander scheme, by contrasting them against each other with their respective scan logs. Combine the Prime logs with the Chozo backstory from the manga and you get a concise set of themes that every game benefits from.
To put it simply, the Space Pirates are a race making all the same mistakes and evils the Chozo would've also done, the Chozo ultimately evovled past those flaws, and the Pirates have yet do do so.
The Pirate logs throughout the Prime Trilogy detail how their evil nature is ultimately a cultural thing, imposed on the race by its leaders and civilization, they have pets, fear death, can disobey orders, and often have to put back in line through violence and intimidation, so they can continue being ruthless monsters, because that's what their culture demands of them, they are quite literally a representation of end stage fascism, akin to how humanity is depicted in Starship Troopers.
There's absolutely a future where the Pirates make a similar transition as the Chozo did, there's hope for them to someday be better.
But as long as they continue choosing leaders like Ridley and Mother Brain, that's unlikely to happen, they can't yet see beyond the value of power.
Awesome comment! I think you brought up some good points that he left out of his video which felt a bit strange to me. Paints a different picture than it really is.
The backgrounds in this game give me comic book vibes and it really adds to the game’s charm
Samus going to a bar is just so fitting
This shows us that she has a life when she's not a hunter.
I’d kill to have a drink with her
Yeah that was an odd complaint. She’s built up enough of a reputation as a skilled fighter that the government just calls her up when things get critical. I’m sure she can go out “In those shorts and vest” and be fine. In terms of comfort, she sprints and leaps around in a bulky suit all day. Letting her skin breathe for a while must be nice.
My favorite thing about Zero mission is as a kid i didn't even know the flying insect boss existed because my cousin and i convinced ourselves the intended way to get super missiles was the morphball shinespark in Brinstar.
So i literally found out about that boss probably 2-3 years later doing ny first 100% run. Blew my mind that we'd managed to fully avoid a boss on accident.
I didn't know charge beam was in the game for a while as a child because I couldn't kill the worm in the given time.
Zero Mission and Fusion are sooooo darn good. The graphics and animations are on point, and the controls are buttery smooth.
I remember we had a conversation back on your federation force video about Metroid lore, and you did mention that you found ZM harmed the worldbulding of the series.
It's good to see you elaborate more on this and I pretty much agree with you on a good number of things.
The biggest thing that I frankly, will never be on board of, is Ridley killing Samus' mother however. It seems that the intent was to make the encounters with him more personal in the games, but it ends up bringing artificial stakes to them instead, and it comes off as a way to retroactively justify why Ridley is Samus' nemesis. I feel like it was in an attempt to give the Metroid series it's singular "villain character" so it can be more like other Nintendo franchises. The funniest thing about it too, is that most Metroid games pretty much fail to capitalize on this retcon anyways, so you have this backstory that Ridley made Samus an orphan, but then in the games he's just this monster that shows up far too often because he became popular in Super Metroid. Gotta give props to Dread for not having him here though!
Samus being raised by the Chozo is an interesting thing to talk about however. I agree that doing this did make the world of Metroid feel far smaller, and in ZM's case it definitely made things black and white. However I do think it opened up new possibilities for interesting stories in Metroid, and I largely appreciate the MercurySteam Metroid games in this regard for giving back moral ambiguity to the Chozo. Previous Metroid games post-ZM would portray the Chozo as the uncontested good race, but Samus Returns/Dread challenged that notion with the Mawkin and Raven Beak. The revelation that Samus has DNA from Raven Beak brings a ton of implications of why Samus was even raised in the first place, maybe the Chozo did love her, or maybe she was raised to become a super weapon...
I think another thing the focus on chozo does that's pretty cool is the idea that they've actually helped to cause some of the galaxies biggest threats. It sort of frames the idea that the Chozo have made grave mistakes that have almost doomed the world, and it works well especially with the new lore in Dread.
In general the addition of there being multiple tribes of chozo actually help expand the world again to me, as now it feels like we've only seen the small remnants of a much larger and more mysterious race. There could be, hundreds of different chozo tribes that might be far more ancient than the ones we see in Dread.
I know this is far too early but I am pretty excited for when you get to the mercury steam games, I'd love to see you talk about the game's stories, what they get right and even what they get wrong (cuz i admittedly am a little biased, Dread is my favorite Metroid game and I have a lot of love for that game's worldbuilding and story).
I also want to talk about some other aspects of the video I agree with, the bosses absolutely stink I agree! They're a massive downgrade from Fusion and in general the far easier difficulty is what prevents this game from being top-tier to me. Especially Mecha Ridley, I am very much in agreement that Metroid has a too much Ridley problem, and this boss fight exhausts it so much. The point on Sequence Breaking is really valid however, I have definitely underestimated Zero Mission's sequence breaks and this video gives me a more positive outlook on that. I'll def be thinking about all this during my next ZM replay.
I do apologize for the length of this comment, I just find your videos to be some of the most interesting videos I've watched on this series and even discussing Metroid with you on previous videos was very enjoyable! If you read all the way to this I just wanna say, thank you :)
Yeah I’m excited to talk about the MercurySteam games because I feel like they do something really interesting. I feel slightly conflicted about some parts of Dread’s narrative, but ultimately positive because it’s clear it’s more of a sequel to the remakes than NES/RoS. The MS games finally start to expand on that lore that desperately needed fleshing out in the games themselves, but I do have some criticisms to offer with how they went about it. I appreciate your comments and I too look forward to reading/discussing with you.
I think dividing the Chozo into Mawkin and Thoha specifically prevents them from becoming grey and it kind of bothers me. Now the Mawkin are evil and the Thoha are the previously established good perfect Chozo. It would've been far more effective if there wasn't such a designated tribal division and there were just Chozo with ideological differences, perhaps the militarists were even the majority, which would make sense with how most of what we see of Chozo tech is weaponry, and how Samus was apparently raised to become a fighter.
@@Supahdenning I totally get what you mean! Having a definitive divide between two races does muddy some of the ambiguity a bit.
I will say though I don't think I got the implication that the Mawkin and Thoha Chozo were the only two tribes of Chozo in the series, rather they're just two of the many different tribes of chozo (I'm pretty sure Prime 1 has its own tribe of chozo if I'm not mistaken?).
I'd still argue that they've kept up some of the moral ambiguity with the Thoha (like how they even allowed Raven Beak to donate DNA to Samus in the first place, and it can't be of fear because none of the Thoha knew RB would betray them until SR388).
I agree though that ideological differences would be less on the nose than tribe distinctions! You make a good point.
@@vipervio123 Prime 1 isn't Sakamoto so it can't necessarily prove more tribes. It is pretty open to interpretation though.
And yeah, the level of hostility between the Thoha and Mawkin needs to be elaborated on more imo. Quiet Robe and Raven Beak are depicted as though they were friendly in the past, and RB was received well on SR388, but the Metroids were apparently already programmed to attack Mawkin? With the facts all laid out like that, I get the impression the Thoha are a bit of a slimy bunch.
@@Supahdenning I interpreted the separation of the tribes to be quite like the Mandalorian in The Clone Wars series, the Thoha were a more pacifistic sect that had become the dominant influence across the universe (considering their effect on the various Chozo communities in the Prime games more reflecting them) but they still had a warrior culture in the past.
Counterpoints to the story retcons;
By having Ridley and the Space Pirates be responsible for the deaths of Samus' parents AND her adoptive bird dads, it paints them as a genuine threat to the entire galaxy. They aren't a small force that picks off fringe mining planets, but a co-ordinated force that attacks so consistently that its not unlikely for a survivor of one attack to encounter another.
By having Samus raised on Zebes, it adds more to the idea that this isn't just a random Space Pirate base of operations, but a totally usurped planet, twisting the creations of the Chozo that were intended to provide and safeguard the galaxy into nightmares that torment and destroy it. It also explains why Samus was sent in the first place. It isn't just about revenge. Multiple Galactic Federation forces went down to the planet, got lost and were never heard from again. And then you find out that this spunky, young Bounty Hunter was raised on the planet? It would be so much cheaper to send this lone hunter down who already knows the layout of the planet. Also, if something goes wrong and she fails, its way easier to sweep under the rug.
I don't think these take away from the overall narrative at all. Samus still doesn't know the truth behind the Metroids, she still doesn't know if what the Federation says is the truth or not. The story isn't about revenge, but she IS presented with an opportunity to grab it. This also helps explain the events of Other M. As hated as they are, seeing it from Samus' PoV makes her reaction clear -- The nightmare that took her parents, her home, her adoptive parents and her new home from her, the nightmare she overcame and finally KILLED in Super is now back. She was able to fight Ridley before because she had the adrenalin and the will to avenge her family and friends. With Ridley's death, the book of her past finally came to an end. It was done. It was over. She could relax. And then he comes back from the dead. How? Why? Is he immortal? How many times will she have to kill him? Can he even be killed? It all comes flooding back as a wave of PTSD. How much more will this ghost from her past take from her?
When you say “Samus still doesn’t know if what the Federation says is the truth or not”, I feel like I might be misunderstanding? Did Mother Brain not explicitly tell Samus in the manga that she intends to exterminate all known sentient life? Or is your point more about what’s in ZM specifically? If that’s the case, then yeah I can at least see where you’re coming from. I happen to think that basically none of what you described is even remotely interesting to me, but I can totally see why someone might find that engaging. Other M does expand on some concepts from this game, but I think the credit then goes to Other M and not ZM. I think ZM itself says VERY little about any of this new lore, showing only gallery images and quick scenes here and there in-game. Because of that, it feels like the game doesn’t have much to say with what it introduces. I think some sequel games like Other M and Dread finally start to expand on concepts from ZM/Manga.
@@FlatulentFetus The manga should have 100% been better communicated to the west, heck I'd take an anime or a movie detailing the early life of Samus ending on her being briefed for her mission to Zebes. Let them flesh it out more, clean up its rough edges.
As for the truth, I meant with the Metroid series in general. She has no reason to distrust them, so it would still let her arc with the Metroids where she realises the grave mistake it was wiping them out, and then the twist of becoming the Metroid being hunted by the SA-X would still happen and be as impactful as before. It might make the universe feel a bit smaller, but I mean... they're at the galactic level. People are out there making names for themselves as bounty hunters. I'd say the universe is pretty small already.
I'm not doing a great job of explaining my thoughts right now, got some mega crazy brain fog.
This doesn't really change your overall point about the lore, which is a totally valid take but i do want to clarify a bit about the timeline you presented.
The revelation about the Chozo raising Samus on planet Zebes? Yeah that didn't come from the 2003 manga. In Fusion (2002), the japanese release had some extra ending art that we didn't get. Samus is shown as child, with the Chozo. Okay but that doesn't necessarily mean they're Zebes at least, good point.
In 1994, surrounding the release of Super Metroid, issues of Nintendo Power had a Super Metroid comic in them which explicitly state that Samus was raised by Chozo, on Zebes, after the Space Pirates wiped out her colony (even named K-2L). This is explained by a Chozo (named Old Bird). If anything, the 2003 manga is just recontextualizing the Super Metroid comic as a canon prequel instead of a comic form of a game.
Really enjoyed the video, and I haven't watched the fusion one yet so i apologize if you brought up the japanese endings in that video, just wanted to help clarify things for those who might not know
Edit: I looked before making this comment if anyone else had mentioned it, but apparently I missed one as I just saw someome else from an hour ago. My bad for the repetition
Edit 2: Sorry, i was going back through the Story section of the video while making the comment and I just noticed you edited in the JP Fusion endings, including one i totally forgot about that straight up shows Ridley killing Samus's parents? It seems like you're aware Zero Mission didn't do this?
I'm interested in your worldbuilding part of the video. I really never thought about how the increased emphasis on the Chozo affected the previous game's plots like that. Still though, I think it was a net positive overall. While Ridley killing Samus's parents (or mom more specifically) is a pretty old trope, it goes make him a much more engaging character since he's more than just an alien pterodactyl working as the space pirates' lapdog, but a sentient, intelligent creature with the capacity of malice and sadism. This also ties in well with the Metroids since they were bred to be weapons by the Chozo against the X parasite, but the baby Metroid in Super shows that they can be more than just scary jellyfish that sucks the life force from you're body. They can develop genuine bonds with other species like any animal. I think Mercurysteam has done a pretty good job developing the Chozo lore since Zero Mission because now instead of them just being space bird deities who can do no wrong, they're a race who have different factions and beliefs and aren't always as righteous as Samus was most likely raised to believe.
I really don't understand how the guy who made this video even interpreted the Chozo that way though. As if they didn't literally make the metroids, and colonize a bunch of planets before abandoning them.
Good point about the Metroids. I think its a nice parallel to Samus in the sense that she was also trained to be a pawn for others and has potential to be good and evil. I think most of these changes in general do a good job of differentiating the series from the Alien films by framing the borrowed elements (greedy villains, bioweapons, artificial intelligence) in a different way to form a unique identity for the series
God, I will never get over these thumbail art pieces. They're just perfect.
My friends that make them kick so much ass
Zero Mission actually isn't the only game that acknowledges low% runs. The Japanese version of Fusion has gallery images for 1% runs.
It seems to be a recent discovery actually. Most sources I've checked either don't bring up those ending images at all, or say they can only be viewed in Zero Mission's Fusion Gallery. But i have confirmed, those ending images were obtainable in Japanese Fusion all along for 1% runs.
Oh my GOD YUCK now I need to do 1% Fusion again, but this time on Hard Mode? I’m seething
@@FlatulentFetus Good news is, if Hard doesn't do anything other than reduce expansion provisions and available health, then 1% Fusion on Hard should prove doable. I made a 1%/No Damage series for Fusion some time back and I can tell you that while it's still inane in its design, it doesn't have the ugly farces involved in Zero Mission's Low Percent.
I think they were for the Child Mode of Fusion, actually, but I could be mistaken there. Either way, they were in the Japanese version of Fusion, yes.
I still have my MZM cart with 5% run in both, Normal and Hard, and BOY... That stuff is INSANELY difficult, but eventually achievable.
@@MasterKnightDHlow% super core X is probably one of the most bullshit bosses in the series, though
the mzm sequence breaks are such a chef's kiss. they're the right amount of difficult for how tight the controls are, and you feel like an absolute badass after being able to pull one off on command. there's a few in super, like speedballing around, wall jumps, and bombs, but mzm amps it up to 11 and it's so worth it.
Ive been eagerly awaiting each one of these. This is the best Metroid retrospective series out there and I hope more people start checking it out. Keep up the good work, man! Thanks for the great stuff!
If you were disappointed in the Mecha-Ridley fight, I think you might be pleased to learn (if you haven't already) that it takes much longer to defeat if you have all of the items and upgrades when you enter the fight.
Try beating him with only one missile pack and no energy tanks (there's an ending for a 5% run which I achieved), no long beam.
Saying that music compression ruins the atmosphere of the game is the most Redditor argument I can imagine
Sometimes the crispiness of the music makes it better. Why do you think lo-fi hip-hop beats to study/relax to are so popular?
Certified reddit moment
Dude, I just got done watching your other videos after they popped into my recommendation the other day! I'm very excited to hear your takes on Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Dread (as those are my two favorite games).
I'm even excited to hear you speak on Metroid Prime: Hunters and Metroid: Other M (as the former is pretty forgotten, minus Sylux, and the latter is, well, you know). Happily a new subscriber!
People are gonna be so mad when they find out I really like Other M
@@FlatulentFetusdon’t worry, there are dozens of us Other M enjoyers! DOZENS!
@@FlatulentFetus I don't know if I've ever met a person who dislikes the lore Zero Mission/the manga introduced, yet likes Other M. I very much disagree, but I respect your opinions!
I guess the short answer is that ZM shits on the lore without even trying to tell much of a story. ZM itself does very little to try to add, it mostly feels like it just takes away from the mythos. Other M similarly shits on previous lore, but it at least does so while trying to have an interesting story.
@@FlatulentFetus the baby enjoyer
This dude consistently pumping out the greatest Metroid videos on the platform
Great video man. I don’t think I’ve watched anyone go as in depth with this amazing gba game as you have and I look forward to watching more of the Metroid videos
Literally got done rewatching all the other metroid reviews the other day. Perfect timing
I like the new lore it enabled a closeness to the chozo in Prime and Dread, but it did make the world feel smaller even if it was already small. I feel like they make Samus' character more complete, Samus is a mostly static protagonist like Goku (DB) once we learn her story we don't have to focus on her as much and she can be plopped into situations for adventures. She's like Link, once we know her character we can nod and just focus on the story or just ignore it.
Mind you that Goku was not static for the first several arcs of DB, it's after marrying and having a son that his character is largely complete and he becomes apparently "static". What this would suggest is that Metroid could do prequels I guess.
I would argue in the case of the Space Pirates. There was never any intent to portray they as being anything but evil. There are the old manuals which call them evil sure, but even Prime 1 depicts them as complete monsters, with the exprriments they conduct showing a blatant disregard for life. Fusion releasing the same day as Prime then acts as a mirror showing that the Galactic Federation and the Space Pirates aren't so different. Both willing to do whatever it takes to push their agendas. The moral quandry still exists even with Samus being a more moral character because she is working for people who are morally questionable and doing things that are questionable at least in later games. Her feeling morally justified in taking this mission for the Federation leads her to the false perception that future missions from them are as morally justifiable. It is right to kill the metroids in the first game because the space pirates are evil therefore it is right to kill them in Metroid 2 to prevent any other evil from using them, except no it's not because they are a nuetral party and capable of empathy as shown by the infant metroid. There is still a character moment there.
I honestly think not much changes about samus' arc with the Zero Mission Retcons. She is still blindly following orders int eh first game, confronted on the consequences in the second game, suffers loss n the third game and then has to face her sins in the fourth game.
I can agree that the added lore removes ambiguity and scope from the story though. The Chozo being so universally depicted as nice or good, makes them seem less like a real civilization and more like how western films depict native americans. As these magical bush people who can do no wrong. Even with the Mawkin being introduced. It's still the good chozo versus the bad chozo. When less information was provided, more was up for interpretation.
It seem like the fate of any long-running series or story.
In real life no one really knows everything that has ever happened. Attempting to form a cohesive in depth narrative where everything makes sense requires you to cut out the things about life or a story that can't be neatly categorized. Hence things getting more simplistic with the more you know.
I think that’s completely fair, but I do share why I don’t account for the Prime games much in this video. Beyond that, I more or less completely agree.
Man I never really thought about how the new lore hurt or hindered Metroid. By the time I really got into Metroid all the lore was there and had been long enough that I accepted it as something that was always there.
The reason you didn't think about it is because it doesn't harm the story or lore.
It provides a personal reason for Samus to do what she does. Otherwise, her reason would be either pure altruism or monetary greed.
@@thorscape3879 I mean it does make what's supposed to be a massive galaxy feel incredibly small.
@@Deadwolf27 Small to you. That's a weak and non-substantive argument.
@@thorscape3879 ok. I don't really care that much. I'd rather discuss than argue anyway.
@@Deadwolf27 They're the same thing. In order to discuss something you must formulate an argument (aka an opinion/stance/position/feeling) and defend it and reinforce it.
Otherwise you're talking at somebody, not with them.
Definitely interested in a discussion about the 3 different versions of metroid 2
Most of the chozo lore was established in the American Super Metroid comic.
One cool thing about Zero Mission is that it includes the NES game as a bonus feature on the same cartridge. Makes it really easy to play both and see how they compare.
Im so glad the comments about your point abt the lore are nuanced and sincere, and not a echo chamber of disagreement or a feces flinging contest. Your video essays are intricate, well crafted, and has challenged my perspective about the whole series while remaining entertaining. You deserve all the good grace coming to you
I think Zero Mission came out after, or at least close to, the release of the GBA SP. The colors were likely designed to look good on both. But the devs didn't completely account for the GBA screen in every case. For instance, SA-X has a near identical color palette to Super Metroid Samus on the uncorrected color scheme. Similarly, the filter can make ZM Samus look desaturated compared to Super, which I doubt is intentional given the artstyle.
I wouldn't go so far as to say any game in the franchise outright "ignores" the continuity of another. The story in most Metroid games is minimalist enough that there isn't much continuity to be ignored in the first place without bringing in secondary sources like the manga. I think it's really more a difference of the implications a western audience drew from that minimalist presentation, vs different perspectives and world view of the original Japanese creators.
I mean, notably when the western developed Prime trilogy wanted to include actual bounty hunting missions where Samus tracks downs and captures targets for money they were told flat out Samus would never do anything so mercenary. Turns out "bounty hunter" being a loan word in Japan, they had no idea what kind of profession it actually was when they originally chose to call her one. Simply put, while western audience used particular word choices to interpret the character as more morally gray, whereas in Japan she was always intended as a more pure and righteous hero, similar to her contemporaries like Link and Mario.
All that said, I'm not a particularly huge fan of the manga, and I agree tying everything so closely together makes the lore feel entirely too small. That said some of the ideas are older than that manga. Notably, Samus having been raised on Zebes had already been introduced as an idea in a Nintendo Power comic as far back as Super Metroid.
I do think at least some elements, however, make sense. While I don't think it needed to be on Zebes specifically, I do think giving Samus a connection to the Chozo makes sense for explaining why her unique battle armor is compatible with relics found in Chozo ruins. Likewise, while I don't think she needs a lengthy history with Motherbrain, I do think Ridly being responsible for orphaning her works with him being her most recurrent archenemy and nemesis across multiple games. Maybe he shows up a bit too frequently, but if where stuck with him, it makes sense for him to be an equally prominent figure in the lore.
compare much later when in the opening to Dread, Adam is flat out discussing the compensation for the ZDR mission not being sufficient for the difficulty and on the job hazard of the job as Samus comes in for landing. Sakamoto seems to have shifted slightly on the mercenary aspect of the job over time.
@@TenebraeXVII I believe their interpretation of Bounty Hunter was always closer to a Mercenary. So she was always meant to be paid for her work, but always worked for the Galactic Federation. The main difference is that Western mindsets view Bounty hunting as being more neutral and not favoring any particular faction, and that the money was the main reason for involvement, rather than simply being payment for the job they likely were going to do anyways (think about how often Samus gets herself involved rather than waiting for the gig). But I could be wrong on this, it just seems to be the most consistent with the Japanese viewpoint of Bounty Hunting I've seen, or at least from Nintendo.
@EmeralBookwise I agree, I think Ridley being part of a big event of Samus' life works fine, they were a galactic threat so her coming across them is very likely. But the part of Mother Brain also being part of her childhood is something I never liked. Luckily the games never outright confirm that, and the manga is surely not canon when you consider how much it contradicts the canon of the game its meant to be an adaptation of! But I'm fine with the idea that the Pirates created Mother Brain using the tech stolen from the Chozo, like the Central Units shown in Dread.
From what I can tell, the most egregious examples of the manga making the world feel smaller are basically absent from the games themselves. The most we get is the fact that Samus was raised by the Chozo, and that Ridley killed her bio-parents. Samus’ whole history with Mother Brain js never actually explored in the games, nor are the finer details of her raising by the Chozo.
I’ve tried the 1% run on Metroid Fusion and the 8% and 9% runs on normal and hard mode on Zero Mission. Never again, lol. Mother Brain and Mecha Ridley become wars of attrition having only 2 or 3 missiles to attack with each round.
I genuinely don't know how you beat Mecha Ridley without Screw attack. Its much too hard balancing jumping around the lasers and claws while also shooting the missiles locked onto you. With Screw Attack you can just go through the missiles and therefore ignore them. But obviously Screw Attack is only available for a 15% run, not an 8 and 9% run.
One thing I want to say is that it's not the entire Federation that wanted to create the Metroid breeding program in Fusion. The localization makes it sound like that, but that's simply a poor translation of events. In the Japanese script it's simply a secret faction within the Federation.
Also I disagree with the notion that Metroids had ever been painted as evil. After the events of Metroid 1 the Federation had deemed them too dangerous to be left alone. It was better to eradicate them then and there rather than take the chance of someone else using them for evil like Mother Brain was attempting to do. I'm not trying to say you're wrong to think any of this, by the way, I just wanted to offer my point of view. (Also I haven't seen your Fusion video so I apologize if you already brought up the translation point there)
This was moreso brought up in my RoS and Fusion video, but the only explicit mention I can recall is RoS’s manual calling them terrible and destructive. That is just a manual, not the game itself, so I totally get why people might not care or notice. It's totally fair to point out that there are plenty of ways to interpret these story elements, and disagreeing is valid.
pipi lore right at the beginning, this is gonna be good
thanks for this video series. really. great work
Hope to see another video from you soon my dude! Your analysis of these games are wonderful and unique.
Oh man, so much to say for one of the best games ever made. I'll go with the soundtrack.
Another of the best title themes ever made to start- Prime 1's is also a Masterpiece. Yamamoto was so brilliant, a shame he's not doing the music anymore, it really is.
Zero Mission turns what sounds like 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' into something incredible. The reprise of the Chozodia stealth/alert theme within Prime 3 was also a pleasant surprise.
I believe the Chozodia alert theme is actually a remix of Super Metroids Brinstar Theme prior to getting bombs. So while you explore the ruins of the Mother Brain area and fight some Pirates you hear that theme! But once you get bombs the normal Brinstar/Crateria themes play and you never hear the "pirate" theme again. It's basically considered the "pirate" theme for this reason, as its always in sections with you exploring a pirate homefield, like one of their ships or their "homeworld" (well, one of many homeworlds I suspect).
This is one of the best Metroid focused channels on YT. Great vid!
This video is incredible well done you have great insight and passion for the series, just on the ending card stuff mentioned there's a bit in the Nausicaa art book were Miyazaki laments having to do standard heroine drawings of Nausicaa smiling and posing because they disconnect her from the story and world, that's kind of how I feel about Metroid's end cards a demonstration of Samus' daily life or something that hints at deeper or just fun characterisation would be cooler to see in the future.
I love videos where I can tell the person making them is more knowledgeable on the subject than anyone else. please make more.
Sit back, light my pipe, and watch the latest review from Pipi. Oh yeah, this is a good night so far.
Just as my brain started thinking about the manga in relation to zero missions story you brought it up and covered it.
19:20: in my personal head canon, the events of the Prime Series can be a pretty decent explanation for Samus’s drastic change from righteous hero who saves Zebes to gun for hire who destroys the Metroid’s and Zebes for good.
I quite literally finished this game 10 hours ago, for the first time.
Now here I see you've uploaded this video 5 hours later... This is fantastic news!
Honestly , one of my biggest problems with zero mission is lack of any challenge on normal run , especially when compared to fusion , or even sometimes super , where dying occurred quite often to make me think of the situation and how i will solve it.
This ended up for me not having much fun playing zero mission , because it was that pathetically easy , even on the first run , when i didn't know what to expect.
It seems kinda odd to me , that this topic wasn't discussed in depth in this video , but anyways i enjoyed watching it.
Can't wait for prime 2 video!
You’re probably are just good at games. I died quite a few times on my first playthrough. I do kinda wish hard mode was unlocked from the get go, tho.
Most of us played this as a kid so I never found it easy until I replayed it recently. Still I did almost die a couple times. As an entry point in the series I think the difficulty is perfect and there is a hard mode unlocked once u beat the game.
The reason its so ridiculously easy, is because its actually balanced around 15% runs! They couldn't make the main game much harder without making 15% runs too ridiculously hard or even impossible. Try a 15% run to see how difficult the game can be! There are even special ending images for them!
Zero Mission rules. I played the original Metroid a ton as a kid but couldn’t finish it. It was so labyrinthian and spooky for a game standing with colorful cheerful games like Super Mario, Zelda and Mega Man.
Years later after many more games and really growing to love Metroid games, playing this version was like revisiting some specter from the past and gaining some absolution by finally finishing it.
I played through the original all the way after and now love both versions even more.
Cool to hear your thoughts on one of my all time favorite game! That was nice.
I try to be rather open minded, and I -can- understand your frustrations....but I also completely disagree with the thoughts on the lore. I do see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, I think think you're not seeing the full picture. To attempt to elaborate: I feel Samus' personal connection to Zebes and the Metroids only enhances the story. She has to live with the fact that *her* people created the galaxy's greatest threat in an attempt to save the galaxy from perhaps an even greater threat. The Chozo *are* still mysterious, we've only seen 2, and one turned out to be evil. And, yes Samus's journey in Metroid II still has it's weight because, again, her people *created* these things. She isn't just on some righteous mission she's also trying to right her long gone family's well intended wrongs. I could go on but, yea I just cannot agree here
I think Samus's connections to the Chozo, Zebes, the metroids, and the space pirates adds juice and spice to her character and world. It makes her not a 100% blank slate and Nintendo realizes this with the Prime Games, Samus Returns, and Dread.
@@Stuntmachine14 "But muh moral ambiguity and my headcanons!!!!!"
You’re the only other person on the planet that thinks Prime is an alternative almost “timeline” to the 2D series, besides me. How does it feel? 😅
I don't really see how the modern lore is worse from the original one. Without that lore, Mother Brain is nothing but some random evil brain and Ridley is just some monster. Sure, the universe may feel smaller, but it has more substance, it has actual characters rather than excuses for a plot.
I disagree but I get it. I’d rather have no answers than what I see as dumb answers.
Admittedly the chozo being alive and well raising Samus rather than a long gone civilization is something that really bothered me too, but I find it easy to ignore that for the most part.
@@FlatulentFetus Too bad Samus Returns and Dread double down on that.
I actually really like the relationship between Samus and the Chozo. I feel it gives the narrative more emotional impact throughout the series, especially in Metroid Dread. But I agree it was stupid that they wrote Ridley and Mother Brain into Samus' past, particularly having Ridley as the one who killed Samus' parents. It also lead to THAT scene with Ridley in Metroid Other M. I know a lot of people try to defend that scene by referring to how PTSD manifests differently and unpredictably in real life. However, the *presentation* of Samus' coping with her trauma after Super is grossly inconsistent with how she's portrayed in literally every other game in the entire series. Fusion is the only game that portrays Samus somewhat similarly to Other M, but just barely. I've also heard that the original Japanese version is appreciably different, suggesting that the Western localization of Other M carries a significant portion of the blame.
I also don't think the Metroid manga is entirely canon. For example, I remember the Metroid manga showing Samus working with Adam and others during her zero mission, while they obviously don't in the game itself.
Regarding the Prime games, I'm pretty sure they are confirmed to be canon, so they should be held to the continuity of the 2D games. However, I think the minor details in scan logs are insignificant enough to not be a big deal, and likewise for small retcons like the number of times Samus has worked with the Federation. Something like that is bound to change during the life of any long-lasting series, and it doesn't have a considerable impact to the overall narrative and character development.
I don't think he was suggesting that the manga was explicitly canon, but that after the manga a lot of ideas from it were adopted into Metroid lore going forward. Granted, Samus being raised by the Chozo predates that manga by quite a bit, enough so that I think the devs at least had this idea in mind during Super Metroid's development.
@@GoeTeeks Okay. But exactly, I think we have wiggle room to say "this part of the manga doesn't show up in the games explicitly, so we can exclude it from the canon." For example, I don't think any of the games outright confirm Mother Brain's involvement in Samus' past. Just because it's in the manga doesn't mean that particular detail is canon. Although, perhaps the central units in Metroid Dread lend credence to MB being in Samus' past.
@@BradMcClung The Central Units seem to canonize the Aurora Units introduced in Prime 3, which suggest that Mother Brain was just a co-opted AU the Space Pirates utilized for Metroid 1 & 3. It's possible we may get a Metroid game that canonizes the Chozo having an Aurora Unit (that they may have even named Mother Brain) while Samus was raised among them.
@@BradMcClung Exactly, the Manga isn't explicitly canon and everything in it was either already part of the lore, or not adapted into the games yet. The depiction of ZM itself within the manga contradicts the game so severely that it really should not be considered canon. And the only aspect that is roughly adapted from it is the Dread Central Units like you said, BUT those are clearly NOT Mother Brain, despite some similarities. So still no need to consider the Manga canon.
I never liked the Idea that Mother Brain was purely the invention of the Chozo like in the manga. I much prefer the idea that the Pirates, when taking over Zebes, stole the technology and changed it to their liking, creating the real Mother Brain. And if you add onto that the fact that Phantoon is connected to Mother Brain (its supposed to be essentially a ghost of it, or perhaps an interdimensional being tethered to our reality through the Mother Brain tech, but this fact was lost in translation, even in Other M where Phantoon's pressence was apparently meant to explain things). So then I like the idea that when messing with Mother Brain, they added some other stolen tech to the Central unit that allowed Phantoon to inhabit the machine and take over it. Making it a wholely unique situation caused by the Pirates. Though, while the pieces are there, that isn't explicitly confirmed to be the case, but I prefer that over the manga's origin of MB.
Oh, and the Prime games are indeed canon, and the director of the 2D games has been very keen to make sure they are even when Nintendo considered the idea that they should be separate canon. Even Mecha Ridley is likely designed to bridge the gap between ZM and Prime 1. As Prime 1 takes place right after ZM and introduced Meta Ridley as the way he is healing from the battle in ZM. So Mecha Ridley is most likely meant to be the origin of the mechanical parts used to make Meta Ridley, it even has the same weak point as a clear reference.
It’s so curious to hear the take about the lack of a scan pulse-like ability in Zero Mission, especially considering the initial backlash of said ability in Samus Returns - though I do agree with you, something like the x-ray scope would have been a nice addition
Hey i just wanted to say that this video appeared on my recommended and was suprised to how insightful it was.
I realized thag i can't really see the entire video because it has spoilers for games i haven't played yet but i can't wait for when i can.
It's either my second or third favourite metroid game (samus returns top 1, fusior or zero mission top 2)
The world is an awesome remake of nestroid, and the music and graphics are great too, the best tracks being kraids lair and norfair
The only things I don't like are the new bosses (outside mecha ridley)
This was my first ever metroid game and it made me fall in love immediately. I started of by downloading roms of the gba games and branched off. I fell in love with this series completely because of Zero Mission and it will always hold a special place in my heart.
When I really look back on it all on the grand scheme of things, Ridley's constant inclusion in the games really packs no punch without context. He usually is one of the easiest or simplest bosses in every game he's in, and unless youre aware of he and Samus' history he's kind of just a guy that shows up a lot for whatever reason, lol.
I think having that context elevates his presence a little bit. I think from a story perspective, kicking his shit in in ZM is cathartic if you know that he and Samus' first encounter ended in her nearly being killed by him after having a breakdown. It also makes his return at the beginning of Super more shocking from a narrative perspective. That being said, other than his ZM and Super appearances, hes usually not the standout in any of the other games I play. And i can definitely agree he's overused (I always forget about Mecha Ridley because hes so forgettable).
I personally really like their connection, though. I see ZM's retelling less as a story of a hero destined for glory and more as someone who takes on a mission that forces her to confront her past demons. I personally dont think it robs any narrative significance from Metroid II or Fusion, but thats just my opinion. I've been binging all your Metroid videos and I gotta say, I love your approach to analyzing these games. You've done some great work!
I have now with this video watched everyone one you’ve uploaded. I’ve been playing most of these alongside watching them . Cannot wait for the next installment
Zero Mission didn't actually change anything in regards to the lore. Just gave us more details that helped the lore.
Its not a retcon since nothing was changed, just added details that were never said.
@Stuntmachine14 Basically the same thing I said.
Just stopping by to say that although I haven't played a single _Metroid_ game, I've enjoyed listening to all of these reviews in the background while doing other things. Keep it up, man!
You're in for a treat when you get around to it; they're some of the best games around
play fusion rn
Dread got me fully locked into the series. What a challenging but reward feeling games
I never noticed an issue with the music, but I’m used to pixel games with chip tunes of all varieties. For the visuals I do not care for the comic book style backgrounds, but they do help the game stand out in that area.
This video was so fun and comfy to watch, Metroid Zero Mission is one of the best remakes to the point where I’d consider playing it over the original, it funnels you through its locations smoothly while showing you where to go some of the time but allowing for player exploration and skillful sequence breaking for pros like you mentioned.
Your complaints about the story are well supported, even if I don't agree with all of them. I agree that connecting every facet of the story to Samus shrinks the universe, and like you, I dislike that. I don't think the Chozo could have remained mysterious forever, as a mystery is only interesting so long as it has mini payoffs to keep you engaged. However, the payoffs they gave us shrank the universe, as you said. I don't hate the reveal that Samus was taken in by the Chozo; indeed, it makes sense as to why she has this crazy powersuit that can utilize all these Chozo upgrades. And her being orphaned also gets her into their care. Probably shouldn't have been on Zebes, though.
I disagree that (in the games) she is presented as a destined hero. Maybe in the manga (I haven't read it), but not in the games. The closest it comes is her final test that gets her her suit back, but that doesn't seem like destiny to me any more than a college exam makes you a Graduate of Destiny.
No, I'd say the biggest offender in making Samus a chosen hero is the rewritten Chozo lore in Prime 1. The OG script did "prophesy" of her coming to Tallon IV, but it was ambiguous as to whether they were truly prophesies, or just the Chozo ghosts losing their grip on reality and perceiving her arrival as a dream when it was real. And even if it was them seeing the future, that's still not too bad, as it's not so much a chosen hero as it is, "oh, we're screwed, but looks like Samus might come and avenge us."
But once they changed the script, they started literally calling her The Chosen One, Iirc. Side story or not, I can't really give the rewrite of Prime 1 a pass for that. They should have kept the original script, despite the plot holes (it's not like the rewrite has fewer holes anyway).
Anyway, tldr, I agree the universe shrinking to surround Samus is a problem in the series, but I think Zero Mission itself doesn't contribute as much to that shrinking as you're attributing to it. Other games/media are more to blame.
That’s completely reasonable, I completely get where you’re coming from. And yeah I think only Prime brings up the whole fate thing in-game. The Manga leans on it, but yeah not in Zero Mission overtly at all.
4:40 those are kitty's paws... but I thought they were some sort of deformed werewolf fingers at first, that freaked me out man
I loved Zero Mission! Fusion, too! As a super poor kid, I was delighted whenever a friend gifted me the Metroid GB games. Fusion terrified me, and Zero Mission showed me how fun it can be to speed run a game. Great analysis, dude!
So... The idea of Samus being raised by the Chozo is not new to Zero Mission. Waaay back in the 90s, Nintendo Power had a small comic series of Super Metroid that first suggested the idea of Samus being raised by the Chozo. And Metroid Prime 1 also makes references to "the hatchling" as being their prophesized savior of Tallon IV in the the Chozo Lore scans. I've always understood "the hatchling" to be referring to Samus. I'm not sure how big of a retcon Ridley killing her parents is, either. And there's nothing really to suggest the the Prime series is its own canon separate from the 2D games. MP3 isn't really Samus "having" to take orders. She is instructed on a situate and chooses to investigate it. There are no terms or conditions she has to accept before being allowed to basically do her thing. She is given instruction throughout the game from the AU, but that's instruction, not orders. She isn't chastised for becoming too powerful or using powerful weapons in her arsenal, nor does she need to make a decision to disobey orders to do the right thing.
The Prime series expands the universe by demonstrating that the Chozo have inhabited or at least visited many different planets. Metroids being on other planets isn't a huge issue either or a continuity breaker when they are still under Space Pirate control, but we'll see how it plays out in MP 4.
So much of this game is amazing. I wish I could experience it for the 1st time like I did in 2004.
I remember liking their loyalty for changing just the color palette for the Varia suit, and wondering if I would get a chance to return to Brinstar after defeating Mother Brain. I could go on, it’s so good!
Played Zero Mission for the first time recently given it launched on NSO and I absolutely loved it, great vid
I have to nitpick significantly on the story part of this video. Metroid’s story is one I think has been muddled in waters of gameplay and localization. You mention Chozo not being mentioned by name in any game until ZM, but that’s only technically true if you look at game text (and also if you ignore Prime which predated ZM by 2 years). Super Metroid had all of the elements that ZM and the Manga expanded on in some sort of supplementary material or another. Samus being raised by Chozo, Ridley killing her parents, the character of Old Bird, these are all featured in things like the Nintendo Power comic and Super Smash Bros trophies, and they weren’t just made up by those entities for their own sake. Super was the game that Sakamoto made Metroid his own creative vision as opposed to his involvement in Metroid where he was mostly just helping get the game made and Metroid II which he had no involvement in. As much as I enjoy both you and Transparency’s videos and find your opinions on disliking this centralizing of the Metroid universe around Samus as a personal story, calling it a retcon and acting like it was some new thing brought in by Zero Mission and the tie-in Manga is just factually incorrect and I feel paints a dishonest picture of what Metroid was intending to BE creatively. Only those first two games are outliers in the greater scheme of the Metroid story and both of them have their reasons for being so: neither involved Sakamoto on a creative level. Super was a sequel to Metroid, but it’s also been likened as a soft remake of the original as well because it was the game Sakamoto used to recontextualize the narrative of the series as a character drama built around Samus, and that through line of personal responsibility and legacy and avenging her family both biological and adoptive is carried through Super with the Baby and return of Mother Brain; Fusion with her own image being perverted into a killing machine, and Dread with Raven Beak essentially being a dark mirror of the people that raised her.
And again, if this isn’t what you want or enjoy from a Metroid story, that’s fine, but it wasn’t some sudden paradigm shift that came with Zero Mission, it’s been a part of the series for most of its existence starting with Super. Hell even the Manga, which was essentially a glorified advertisement for Zero Mission, was originally published online in 2002 as an E-manga tie in for Fusion and continuing into 2003 and 2004 in print format.
Lastly the comment about the pirates being ambiguously evil is just outright wrong? Even if you ignore the NES manual which states that pirates stole the Metroids from a science vessel and killed everyone on board doing so, Super outright shows a space station full of dead scientists at Ridley’s hands, and Ridley was known as their commander even back then. There was never any question to the Pirates in Metroid being evil, and their goals have only ever been depicted as selfish and achieved violently. These are the same scientists that tell Samus that Metroids ARENT just mindless monsters but have peaceful scientific potential as well, so it’s not even conflicting with Metroid 2’s ending of making you self reflect on the morality of killing all the metroids in that game. Metroids are victims caught between the pirates ambitions and the Federations paranoia and it falls into Samus to carry on that legacy she has to bear.
I only allude to it in the beginning of this video, but I mention that I’m not interested in examining these games with a historical context. Part of that is that I really don’t care if ZM is where all of these ideas originated from. ZM is where these ideas first appeared in-game, so that’s why I take issue with them and bring them up here. The 2003 manga is also brought up because it’s still widely seen as the best way to understand the beginning of the Metroid narrative. Just because some version of that story existed before, I don’t think that really makes much of a difference. Also worth mentioning that the 2003 manga seems to take these ideas much further than Smash Bros or the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic ever did.
You also mention that you have this issue with Transparency’s video, but they dedicated a segment to detailing those origins of these new story ideas. They specifically mention things like the Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic, and they too seemed to take issue with Zero Mission in particular because that is when this stuff started appearing in-game. I didn’t bother outlining that difference because I’m not here to give a history lesson, and it existing outside of the games previously is irrelevant to my point.
And about the Space Pirate thing, I think it’s worth mentioning that we only know that Ridley was on Ceres. Ridley is a Space Pirate, but there’s still absolutely room to interpret his actions as the Space Pirates doing something bad for a good cause. Ridley killing those scientists to achieve his goals could be seen as similar to Samus killing all the creatures she did in Metroid 1 + 2 for her goals. Killing the scientists is evil, but it could be interpreted that it’s being done to serve a noble cause. Also worth mentioning that Ridley himself doing something like that doesn’t mean every Zebesian agrees with his actions. I should have been more clear with what I meant by “Space Pirates” because though Ridley certainly is a pirate, the Zebesians are what I was mostly talking about. The motive of the pirates is not made clear beyond what the Federation alleges, and that mystery allows for speculation. That’s what I was trying to say in the video.
@@FlatulentFetus Thanks for the reply! I've been watching your series since the Federation Force video (which I'm glad to see people stand up for its merits as a game), and I know at least since your NES Metroid video you've had this mantra of not concerning yourself with the historical context of the game. Which is fine, really, I was glad to see someone could look at a game often seen as "outdated by the remake" as the original Metroid and find merit in its existence without having to justify it with "fair for its day" as a caveat.
I personally am someone who is always interested in the historical context of a game's existence, because I find that intertextuality between the game's creation, its influences, and how it was perceived, marketed, and especially with Japanese games, localized. This is especially true for Nintendo games, which very often clearly have "external" lore and writing bits that are never explicitly made known in their games but clearly influence things that occur within those games (Star Fox is especially notorious for this).
However, to play by your own metrics then, I still think it is unfair to peg Zero Mission as this paradigm shift in the lore. Yes, this is the first game to explicitly show Samus 1: lived on Zebes, 2: was raised by the Chozo as a child, and... that's it. Yeah, the gallery includes some extra stuff, all taken from the manga, showing her parents being killed by Ridley and the like.... if you happened to have a second GBA to access, a Link Cable, a copy of Fusion, and linked them up. They are bonus content that the average laygamer was not going to access casually, and most people came to know about that content through external sources on the internet... and at that point, what is the functional difference between some gallery screens and a crude fan translation of a Japanese-only manga? Yes, the manga takes things even farther, but that is sort of its point - the secret Fusion gallery is an easter egg meant to entice the player into looking deeper elsewhere.
There are only two instances in all of Zero Mission that divulge into Samus's backstory: the opening narration when the game starts, and the mural near the end when Samus has to do the weird Chozo trial for her fully powered armor. The connection to Ridley, Mother Brain, her birth parents, even the whole "Chozo used to be a conquering space empire but then found their chill and decided to become a commune of hippies who literally can't act violently" lore is nowhere to be seen or even implied in Zero Mission's normal gameplay (and really only the connection to Ridley is explicitly shown in the obscure as all hell bonus gallery). For all intents and purposes, Zero Mission as a game taken on its own merits, makes exactly one change to the story we were given in NES Metroid: Samus used to live here... and that isn't even that weird of a change when considering what came BEFORE Zero Mission.
My primary objection to including Fusion and Super in this "old 2D lore" perspective of Metroid is that while those games did not make much explicit mention of Samus' connection to the pirates, Ridley, or the Chozo, it was all still very much implied heavily. Even the far more narrative-removed NES Metroid and Metroid 2 have some implication: the very fact Samus' armor can interact with these power ups left behind by these undefined Bird Alien Statues that happen to exist across two totally unrelated planets (within the context of their own games) more than suggests a connection right there already, especially Metroid 2's redraw of Samus' armor making it more resemble the general aesthetic of the statues. Fusion was the original source of the manga-tie in gallery art, as well, it was simply region locked from North America because those endings were tied to Child Mode in Japan, so really part of what you put the blame on Zero Mission for is actually on Fusion.... which comes back to my original point: Zero Mission was not the paradigm shift.
This shift had been ongoing for a decade at this point, slowly. Super had a comic tie in with explicit references in game (Crystal Flash, etc) laying the ground work. Fusion went further by advertising a manga that rewrote things further and fleshed material out even further, and then Zero Mission goes back to where it began and put the most notable of those rewrites (that Zebes was Samus' home for much of her life) into the game proper. The lore wasn't new, it was a decade running, you just couldn't *ignore* it so easily anymore... and like, again, if that's your problem, that's fine honestly, but it should be phrased as such.
As for the pirates, I absolutely disagree with the idea anything that they do has any room for interpretation for good cause without playing so much Devil's Advocate you might as well be agreeing with him. Interpretation requires foundation, and there is no foundation in any Metroid game new or old that the pirates aren't evil. Saying not every Zebesian agrees with Ridley is like saying not every Stormtrooper agrees with Darth Vader: yeah, that could be true, but functionally that's not the point. Ridley is the Named Pirate, he's their leader, he is shorthand expression for what the pirates goals are, and he is unambiguously evil across all incarnations. Compounding that matter further is the scientists that Samus leaves the Baby with are unambiguously good: they're the ones that tell Samus that Metroids have potential for good and peace in civilization, and I think that's really important to note because the contrasting point there IS Fusion, where the Federation's interests in the X by comparison is NOT for peace, but for "studying its potential". Now we could use this intertextuality to cast doubt on the scientist's interests in the Baby in Super for sure given the Secret Metroid Lab in Fusion and all we have to go off there is Adam saying its for peaceful purposes and his only citation being "trust me bro", but 1: that is why I specifically mention the difference between the phrasing of "peaceful" for Metroids and "potential" for the X (as one suggests benignity and the other does not), but also 2: that's bringing Fusion into the equation.
As far as Super, on its own is concerned, those scientists were good people and Ridley brutally killed the hell out of them and then kidnapped a baby animal so his cronies could zap it with radiation to create clones of it, the end results of which caused it to grow gigantic and ferocious and almost kill what it believed to be its mother (which we see at the end of the game). No amount of good intentions, explicit or implicitly assumed, really exonerates the Pirates of that. They killed a bunch of unarmed civilians, kidnapped a baby animal, then abused the hell out of it. That is the deck the Federation's, at best, Implied Normal Government Corrupt Military Industrial Complex Bullshit is up against. Even Fusion doesn't quite compare to what the Pirates get up to, even with Actual War Crime Nightmare being there, because at that point the score is like 1 to 3 against the Pirates across the entire IP. The pirates goals might all be Federation allegation, but their actions sure as hell don't cast any doubt as to what those allegations are.
@@CappnRob Zero Mission and Fusion are the in-game paradigm shift. I do mention in this video that someone could make the argument that someone could choose not to blame Zero Mission itself because it had a responsibility to follow up on the Manga. I also say I choose to criticize ZM anyways because it shows a lot of this in-game. You do mention that this didn’t start in-game with ZM, as Fusion also had this stuff in its Japanese version. I also went over that in my Fusion video, and I criticize it there for doing the same thing.
I don’t think a link cable/second GBA being harder to find and the idea that most people would miss this stuff means that this stuff is functionally the same as external sources. Those are still completely different. I absolutely consider ZM to be accountable for including those gallery images from Japanese Fusion.
I do criticize the manga for introducing so much to the series, and I also criticize ZM for not doing much of anything with this stuff. I thought it’d be self-explanatory that where you decide to place how much blame is purely up to you. I personally mostly blame the Manga, but I also blame ZM for introducing plenty of stuff and expecting you to read a Japanese-only manga. There are a good number of blurry lines here because of things like Japan only gallery images in Fusion, Japan-only manga, the relative obscurity of the Fusion gallery images in ZM. I’m primarily concerned with a modern perspective of examining the games themselves only, but the Manga was included in this conversation for numerous reasons. It’s widely regarded as the definitive and canon source of information concerning the origin of the series and it’s a huge piece of the discourse surrounding Metroid and especially Zero Mission’s lore.
About the pirate thing, I think this seems to be forgetting a key piece of my statement in the video. I specifically mention that this potential interpretation of the pirates is in light of Fusion’s revelations. “Super on its own” is the opposite of the point that I was making. I go into that point and the Super Metroid Nintendo Power Comic point in my description a bit more in the pinned comment and the description of this video.
@@FlatulentFetus I, personally, do not place any blame anywhere. The story is a bit of a mess, but most stories are. The mess does not interfere with my enjoyment of Metroid. I take it all with a grain of salt, though if I had to criticize anything the most it would also be the manga for its general clunkiness and over-explanation of little details that didn't really need expanding on (though I do love my man Gray Voice).
I suppose I am just perplexed by your blame of ZM. You say you aren't interested in these games in a historical context, but then you blame ZM for "expecting" you to read a manga that isn't easily available in English, but the English localization of ZM hides the only direct connection to the manga in a secret gallery. I think you put way too much weight on a small cutscene of Samus as a child with Old Bird looking at a mural, because that is functionally all ZM "adds" to the canon insofar as games are concerned. You don't need the manga to "get" Zero Mission, because all ZM changes narratively from NEStroid is "Samus lived here once", and it wraps that up at the start and end of the game with a single line of narration and a small cutscene.
Bringing in the manga, the limited availability of it to a non-Japanese audience, the muddying of the lore that provokes when held up against the Super comic, Blood of the Chozo, Prime lore, etc, that's all valid but that's doing the very thing you said you aren't interested in: looking at ZM historically. If someone was to pop ZM in today, no exposure to any Metroid whatsoever, first game ever played, it wouldn't cause any problems. If someone was to pop in ZM today, and have only played NES Metroid beforehand, it would maybe raise a small eyebrow. ZM *only* causes problems with the lore when taken into a historical context of the IP as a whole, beyond just games, and even then its still reaffirming lore that existed before it did by a decade. When I was a teenager playing ZM for the first time and I saw Old Bird in it, I was elated because I liked seeing a character I previously only knew from the Super Comic being "canonized" in a game - I had no idea about a manga at that time (though I would go on shortly after to find out about it online).
It feels dishonestly selective to criticize ZM for essentially having one additional cutscene in its post-game content as this huge expectation to read a Japanese comic book for The Extra Lore when none of that lore really affects the game itself. That's something Other M does far more than ZM (note I am not an OM hater but these are the facts in this regard).
@@CappnRob I suppose I should also mention that I start each of my videos, except for this one, with saying that I intend to discuss not only the games but also the reputation surrounding them. I said in the beginning of this one that I did not feel the need to repeat my usual song and dance about my perspective, but clearly in skipping this I’ve obfuscated some important context. I consider the manga too important to not discuss, and that’s because it’s also important to the reputation of the series. It’ll also be important to a few of the sequel games. I also consider it important because, as I said before, ZM’s gallery exists and repeatedly references it. You clearly do not think the gallery images are nearly as important as I do, which is fine, but my perspective is informed by that perceived importance. The manga may not be one of the actual games, but its effect on the games is too big to ignore for the kind of discussion I want to have.
I also disagree that you need the context of the first game to feel confused about ZM’s lore. The sequels are also considerably hampered by the new lore, as discussed in the video. Also worth mentioning that whether or not the player can perceive the differences between NES and Zero is irrelevant to whether or not they exist in the first place. That’s part of why I say the game is serviceable in a vacuum.
Having played through most of the 2D games this year, I appreciate Zero so much as a complement to Fusion. I wonder how much you have to search for a similar case of a series deciding that they can go two pretty different ways and pulling it off to this extent.
I just played zero mission for the first time recently! They just added it to the nso library. The art was so beautiful in this game.
This video's thumbnail is hilarious and needlessly epic. I would love to have a high-res version.
Kraids theme gave me nightmares im the OG. Had to take a couple weeks off.
Cant wait for the eventual prime 2 video based off the release scedule of the channel so far. Zero mission does well in remaking the game. Zero mission did alot of retconning and in the long run i dont mind the chozo being this group integral to samus’s backstory. Dread helped in making alot of the lore in the first 4 games important to the story but i see your points in how it changed alot of the world building
I have done 15% mode . I won't do it again. Great video. Take care!
I have to agree with the pirate locations being cheap in the mothership. Doing that escape on Hard Mode encouraged me to cheese one of the elites purely to be rid of him
When Samus crashes her ship and loses her suit at the end of Zero Mission, how is it that she can still do ledge grabs without having the power grip?
there’s this thing in life called the “pull-up”
She's strong. The power grip was an upgrade for her suit that gave *it* the strength to pull itself up, but without the suit's extra weight, she can just do that, like lots of people can.
Hell yeah another pipi banger
You said a lot about not wanting to repeat what you said in your NES video, but considering that it was an hour long, I would think it justified if you did recap a little more.
Just beat it today. Best metroid game i have ever played.
I actually love your points. I never thought about the lore that deeply, and while I don’t mind Samus being somewhat related the the chozo in a way, I like the idea of the space pirates being a separate threat not related to her at all, and maybe even being pretty intelligent as well. Considering they established theme-selves on zebes again with tech to monitor goings on like we saw in Super.
Overall though. My complaints with Metroid are still pretty tame compared to other game series. I love Metroid a lot. Can’t wait to see what you have to say about more recent titles as well ☺️
This may be faithful, but it there aren't enough missions.
Glad you liked our video on the subject! ❤ We've since moved on from the series after it took a bit of a toll on us trying to make a follow-up about Dread (we had to scrap it), but we're happy to have been able to put words on the issues regardless. Don't be a stranger, throw us a message if you like.
I bought Zero Mission on the Wii U virtual console shop, which I don't regret. That said, they definitely made the Mother Brain fight much much harder then Metroid or Super Metroid.
Did you time this perfectly on purpose with the release of Zero Mission on the Nintendo subscription service? How?
It was actually a complete coincidence. I took a month-ish break to start a new job, go on vacation, ect. I’ve been insanely busy at work, and I actually even just moved into a new place. The 3 month gap between videos was never planned but it lined up nicely with ZM’s NSO release.
4:39 love the cat!
Been waiting for this
It's got my favorite platforming puzzles with the multi stage shinespark item acquisitions. Speed boost to shine spark into speed boost into shine spark into speed boost into morph ball shinespark at an angle that sort of thing. Tons of high bomb jump usage intentionally...just very good.
Super Metroid I think is overall better still, there's just a magic to the crafting of the rooms where it's like, a perfect pixel distance to being able to pull off a speed boost or shine spark in a lot of locations if you do it right, multiple ways to progress.
But Zero Mission did s damn fine job. It's a close second for me.
The one thing I thought was just dopey was mecha ridley. Like ok whatever.
@@artosbearMecha Ridley would go hard as a secret boss. That’s what I initially thought it was at first
why in the low percent does it start playing a slowed version of cotton eye Joe 😭😭
People who claim that super's is a better game for sequence breaks are coping hard on nostalgia, holding onto an old game when it was clearly outdone by a future title.
EDIT: I've done the low percent run as well and imo instead of getting 6 supers it was much more mentally acceptable to get 4 supers, 1 energy tank to allow an extra hit from the pirates via 49 extra health and finally the screw sttack. Because having the screwattack means you can destroy pirates in 1 touch and allow you better mobility in the mecha fight by destroying the missles with 1 touch also.
Screw attack would probably help against those missiles too since you could screw into them for an easy kill. I probably should have done exactly what you’re describing. The cool thing about 6 Supers is that if you’re skilled, you can pop off all 6 before Ridley has much of a chance to do anything. I found this difficult for my muscle memory with input delay on the emulator, but I can consistently hit Mecha’s weak spot rapidly on original hardware. But personally I agree with you in that it’d probably be more beneficial to make the escape easier than make Mecha Ridley easier.
Screw Attack also helps a ton in Mother Brain as the turret shots don't affect you during it and you also destroy the Rinkas as well! (though freezing the rinkas is superior either way).
My experience with low% mecha ridley was entirely different - there wasn't any combo of attacks that I couldn't dodge once I knew how, and I particularly found it engaging to have to shoot down missiles while keeping a space jump going. The only true "unavoidable" attack was if I failed to keep driving him back - if he crawled all the way forward, his claw swipe covered the entire play field and that was an OHKO. Far from being a detriment though, that added an excellent sense of tension to the fight where I had to pace my aggression and be pinpoint accurate to stave off this extra loss condition.
And I know I was consistent at it by the end, decades ago now though it may have been, because the escape sequence and the elite pirates at the end of it kicked my ass countless times but I just kept getting right back into it without suffering many losses to mecha ridley in between.
It was by far my favorite metroid boss experience until Dread, honestly.
How do you get Mecha to move backwards?
@FlatulentFetus Burst damage, similar to mother brain. One super or 2-3 (forget the number) missiles in quick succession planted on the weak spot will do it. Once you know that, the key insight is to not go after his weak spot at all unless you know you can trigger a retreat - and if he's maximally backwards, to focus more on stocking up than aggressing. The missiles attack you can destroy for ammo may be random, but it's frequent enough that good pacing should always keep you from being fully cornered... or so my experience was running 15% with long beam.
Goes without saying that the further back he is, the easier the rest of his attacks are too - dodges that work by rote early in the fight will often fail later on if he's crept forward just because the spacing is different. Between that and the pseudo-loss condition of him clawing when he's fully forward, the burst damage threshold is the most important mechanic of the fight. If you hadn't figured it out, it's no wonder you had so much trouble - I similarly couldn't grok why I could dodge some attacks easily and then would randomly die to it until the positioning mechanic clicked, and it was ultimately one of the undodgeable claws that made me realize what was actually happening.
That's the main strategic concern, but for more moment to moment defense I generally favored going above the claw rather than crouching down - it works more consistently at closer ranges, and if he's firing missiles it gives me a clean shot at them earlier on. That said, even without doing that I'll note that the slow-mo shot at 1:03:28 was still saveable from crouch by either jumping to juke and shooting straight down, or alternating diagonal with horizontal shots like you would to wall off regular ridley's fireballs.
Taking that attack from the air like I prefer is of course what leads to the wild-ass situation of dropping out of spin to shoot down missiles and then going back into spin to stay in the air to dodge something else before going for burst damage on my way down to land after that.
My own criticism of the fight is that as clearly presented as hitting the burst damage threshold is, mecha ridley's positioning just isn't something you have any reason to notice in a normal run except as a bit of spectacle with him backing off from your powerful attacks - by the time you do low%, you have to unlearn stuff about the fight to have any chance, and they could have done more to draw attention to his changing position - continuing to change the lighting on him when he gets closer instead of just in the intro, perhaps.
Another thing about 100% you could have included was about the final boss; for whatever reason they made the fight much harder if you've collected 100% items, increasing his HP by a lot and also his damage. It's a different kind of reward that I can't remember seeing in any other game. And I'm not talking about "True Endings" and stuff like that, just the bossfight itself.
I was just recommended this video, and omg you have _multiple Metroid video essays_? I'm eating good for a while!
Breaks my heart so many people dismiss the original NES game and GB games.
I have many issues with the original Metroid so I never gave Zero Mission a chance, admittedly
I've heard it said many times that Zero Mission renders the original obsolete, and I only partly agree because ZM contains a (screen crunched) copy of the NES game on the cart. I love both in their own ways. Some times I want the fast snappy shinesparky game, and other times I want the spooky floaty simpler game. I'm one of those weirdos that loves sitting down and doing a run through NES Metroid, and it isn't Nostalgia from before the series "got good" because I started with Super.
I like that you were critical of the story and not just praising the game like everyone else.
I missed having one of these for the last two months!
Welcome back fam
I understand why you feel the way you do about the Metroids story, but honestly, it's one of my favorite things about the franchise. I'm personally a huge fan of how the story centers around Samus Aran, but I also do agree that it makes the universe feel smaller; however, I think having a more personalized story is worth the trade-off of a less mysterious universe. At the end of the day, it's a personal preference thing; the story may work for some but not for others. I'm trying to make this comment not seem like I'm saying, "Well, you're wrong because I like it!" Because I definitely think that your perspective on the story is completely valid and understandable, even if I personally disagree.
Either way, I love your videos on Metroid, they are extremely well done and made me love these games even more!
Loving these thumbnails
Alright this Thumbnail alone get`s you a like from me
57:11 bruh shinespark? I just spacejumped through the lasers 😭😭