Fighter is BROKEN... but why?Way too much healing as a tank class, way too much utility and speed, and alot of damage it gets ridiculious, you could stack buff duration on second wind and this is what, a million healed damage?I cant be asked to do the math, on top of that you stack max health then you take a halberd and do like over 100 damage every second, because that is how the scaling works, then you shoot people with your long bow and got 75% pdr , the damage is a hundred percent burst damage scale. Also the fighter wants to get the full value of his second wind, because you will find yourself in the situation where you got like 80% and you dont want to use it and then you insta die, so you just put up your shield and block the whole damage while you are at low health and get healed while you are a berserker , slashing down the whole lobby with your insane range, it just does everythingg and there is no charakter in the game that can match it, its basically a unavoidable damage.So in base gear , you basically do a 100 damage per second and you just cant outheal them, it basically does always everything and casically counters everything . Its insane how bad you can play as fighter, you take damage you take pokes just freely you miss all your hits it doesnt matter, because they just get tanked up, you hit 4 hits and they hit one coming up with an adcantage, because they got quadruple your hp at the same time. I fundmentlly dont agree wit it existing in the state it currently does, it allows to play with just w key and leftclick
Cleric has 1 thing it can do, sure overtuned a bit, but i feel like everyone is overreacting. Its not cleric that is OP. It is magical healing. Mag healing builds on warlock and druid are also insane. Scale mag healing down and the problem is fixed. Simple. Cleric also has a very high skill gap for healbot. u have to literally predict where ur teammates are gonna be and what they are going to do before they do it.
I agree. Especially people in high gear know clerics sustain ability and will go out of their way to dive you as soon as your frontliners are distracted. Cleric is tough and takes a lot of skill
Druid could have double the magical healing and still be useless compared to a cleric in 3v3. If the other team has a cleric and you don't it's over for you.
No. Cleric is definitely just op. If said class is required for your team comp and the fact you’ll lose 9/10 if you don’t have a cleric and they do, then it’s a broken class. (in high experienced lobbies at least)
I think the magical power bonus scaling is way too high.. why melee classes only get +1 % (which only scales to bandages and physical attacks) when magic power gives 2% (which makes your heals, potions,spells better.. would fix a lot of issue with cleric, warlocks, wizard if it was down to 1% or 1.5%
Just add more support options on other classes. Having a support role in the game is healthy and adds diversity and depth. But it RUINS the game when there's only one class that can fill that role. Incredibly discouraging when you know no one that plays it. I didn't truly understand this until I took a break from playing Cleric to main Wiz for a while.
clerics reminds me of Apex legends when gold armor used to heal rly fast. The wearer could get in a fight, but if they got hurt a lot they could go behind a wall and be back at full Hp and shield, it pretty much meant a win for anyone who had it.
You have to use a heal on anyone under 100% because they can die to longbow/fireball to the dome. Literally any team composition is served better by an extra wizard. Except if the opposing team has more rangers, then another ranger is better. 20:30 if the cleric is healing themselves he's not healing his allies or dealing damage to you. He's just buying time. A rogue/warlock/ranger/bard/wizard kiting you can buy time and deal damage at the same time. Cleric is not a "do everything" class. They're slow and easily beaten in any fight. If you're 7m away from a cleric, he can literally do NOTHING to you. Use your bow/spells on them until they run out of heals and then all the cleric can do is try to waddle at you in plate or be a slightly tankier melee wizard when in cloth. There is no way a holy strike can hit someone who is running away, they have to make a mistake to take it.
this is so insanely wrong i dont even know where to begin LMAO like you fundamentally dont understand the game for me to even explain whats wrong with your statement to you in a way you could understand it
@@toddfatherttv Sure, it's why iron mace nerfed heals. Oh wait, they didn't. Maybe it's you who has a fundamentally flawed understanding of the game outside of w-key fighter. Play the healing cleric, though it may be outside your skillset because you can't just stat check your enemies, but who knows.
the bigger issue is how high all sources of damage are, maybe if SDF's vision didn't include bows doing 80 or more damage we could have other healing options
Every streamer and content maker started to cry about "how broken cleric is". Maybe they should try to play it at first. Omg i can't oneshot a guy with my 6 fireballs, because cleric can heal it. Yea ofc
Holy strike judgement combo = if you arent a barbarian you arent allowed to push the cleric into melee or your HP dissappears followed by stun lock. Cleric is balanced at low/mid gear when they don't have insane amounts of magic healing, but the heals scale way too hard and it becomes very oppressive when you get to the 15+ magic healing range
Toddfather plays and mains the cheesiest easiest brain dead class of all time, sprint and second wind are s tier and best skills in the game. He gets ranged great at melee get pdr and still can move quicker then cleric with more pdr and effective hp. Fighter takes no skill its a reason its the most played class and noob friendly.
God every class is busted. Literally all of you are complaining about every single class being busted and underpowered at the same time. This community just cant agree on anything. Its fine every class can be useful
Good vid, maybe lacked to contextualise why almost all those strenghts dont apply on solo at the same time lacking the most important thing in solos for a melee: a gap closer. And ultimately why they are holding on nerfing cleric, they want to fix mov speed meta b4 nerf cleric. I am being a little optimistic on the things they have said, but they are nerfing wiz every 2 patches bcs of trios/arena while not being good on solos, so I am pissed off too its not even a consistent balance approach.
cleric benefits from the "ms meta" you can easily make the class fast. It's just solo players are 90% bad at the game so struggle to even play cleric correctly
@@ivvvy solo players are always the best, because they cant rely on others, the larger the group the more suckers are around. Also Cleric doesnt benefit from ms, because he got no movement abilities, while having to rely on plate to compete - hence trashtalker spotted, wo struggles to even use basic logic correctly
@@ivvvy i was there since playtest 3 until the end of the first season, playing war maul cleric in playtest 4 and 5- you dont know the hustle. Also i have seen how wack teams are, you drink an invis pot and can solo a 3 man with a few precise swings
gonna put forth an unpopular opinion in the DaD community but a pretty much unanimously held consensus belief in every other class based game ever. (anyone feel free to reply if you know why this doesn't work in your opinion for dark and darker) but basically if you think of pretty much any other fantasy rpg /class game or whatever healing outscales damage 99/100 times in these types of games because of one main reason: healing is the button that says I don't lose the game right now, but damage is the button that says I win the game. Even going all the way back to actual dungeons and dragons style games healing is generally considered a suboptimal game action most of the time because taking time to not kill the enemy is just not as good as taking time to kill the enemy. And in video games as a whole the reason healing outscales damage kind of goes back to that initial table top principle because if damage and healing are equal why would you ever spend time healing when you could spend the exact same amount of time doing damage to the enemy at the same rate, when the enemy is dead there is no need to heal. Obviously there are tactics to consider like taking down time to heal when your ability to deal damage is low or you are not at risk of taking more damage etc. healing at any rate might still be a great option in a variety of scenarios but the principal in general still stands. Also just for a comparative in this game just look at any bis'd out physical damage dealer in dark and darker like a 50% power bonus long bow user with full true phys, are their arrows doing that much less damage than a cleric heals for? not really. I think there should be more healing reduction effects and more strong healing options in general buffing druid healing capabilities and all the other classes healing while enabling more classes to reliably mitigate healing would be the right avenue imo. if you have been one or 2 tapped by anything in the game (while wearing good gear) and you think a cleric being able to heal that much is the problem i just don't understand. I also think if there were like 3 classes that could heal as well as cleric this would just not even be a discussion people have but since DaD has pretty much only had 1 viable healing class for the majority of its lifespan that class gets all the attention for being good at the thing its supposed to be good at. Their burst might be a bit too high but without any significant long ranged option I don't think its that bad either. Wouldn't mind them getting some kind of holy bolt like spell and just nerfing all their damage spells a little so they don't just explode people that come close.
There is no real reason why they should add more healing classes when cleric and druid exist. Nobody wants more classes that feel the same as one already in the game. Also adding more healing classes just reinforces the idea that you need to run with a healer on your team which shouldn't be the case. The way cleric is right now allows teams with him to make way to many mistakes without punshment and teams withoutcleric have to play 10x better for the same result.
@@DefectiveAim according to your logic there should be no more ranged damage, because you can make more mistakes than melee without punishment - Sloozan made a very based comment, thats rarely seen under a Toddfather video and they should add back healing over time to bard, without the need to sit down
@maisda-l8e While ranged classes are strong and can somewhat make more mistakes its nowhere near as bad as cleric. Poor positioning with ranged classes can get you killed. Clerics burst healing is so strong that your team can make huge mistakes and get bailed out by cleric. I think the best change imo would be to make half the heal instant and the other half heal over time so it still heals alot but a bit slower
@@DefectiveAim poor positioning wih cleric can get you killed and ranged classes can make huge mistakes, especially fighter can make the most huge mistakes - if you are thinking the concept of D&D will totally change just because of some follower of a cringe dude like Toddfather, you must be wicked, for real tho, cleric is not a heal over time class and never was in any game, 50% heal over time?Wtf is wrong with you guys
@maisda-l8e Bro this how I know your buns at the game XD. Even with poor positioning alot of times cleric can spam lesser heal on himself a survive while his team helps. Heal over time wouldn't even be that drastic of a change. You say fighter can make alot of mistakes but fighter doesn't enable his WHOLE team to play reckless and get bailed out by insane healing like cleric. Cleric essentially makes it to where you have to kill someone multiple times over just to actually kill them and thats a problem
I dont disagree, but 1. if cleric healing is overkill, why are they not building out other secondary stats? 2. Would you say Arena is a good proxy for regular game balance at this point in what is meta and does well?
Its only overkill in certain situations and for those you have overhealing value. no arena is VERY different than the normal game because certain things like casters with limited spell casts dont have to care about them because theres no chance of a third party. if they want to balance theyd have to do separate balance for arena and normal game
Kind of like League of Legends Healing Supports are always mega OP in teamfights. They counter assasins(rogues), poke(mages, rangers), and can help keep your tank alive for days. Meanwhile they are dogshit useless in 1v1s. Its always gonna be impossible to ballance this game around solos, duos, and trios.
Just main Cleric for a while (5 and 10 spell) then revisit your points. You give so many 1 sided examples that clearly comes from someone with not enough hours on the class.
im not really sure todds even played cleric enough to have an opinion about it so many things he said were just so wrong it was laughable and idk if hed even be able to understand if you explained it to him lol. using 25 as the basis for Mheal on cleric in the very beginning is just the start lmao thats only posssible with unique mystics n max rolls on everything else, legit nobody runs 25 mheal and him not knowing that is just showing his ignorance lol. todd ought to main cleric for a month and come back revisit the topic, id pay cash money to watch him try and play cleric in solos for a few weeks lmao
todd is normally big L, but nobody has to play cleric 1000 hours to realize its stupid busted in teams. and yeah maybe not everyone is maxing out certain stats, but its comedic to try to say that they have to be absolute bis to still be incredibly impactful. they dont.
@@redasda but thats not what i said so why pretend like that was my point to make your argument make sense? I dont need you putting words in my mouth i said what i meant. Todd doesnt know what its like to play cleric, hasnt played it at a high level, and in general has no clue what hes talking about on the subject lmao. If a clerics primary function in the game is a healer and tons of the classes who are damage dealers can do 80% of ur hp in 1 second why wouldnt cleric be able to counteract that??? make it make sense lol. So many things todd said about cleric how it plays and the numbers were totally wrong and he proved it in legit his opening argument having no clue 25 Mheal is "basically" impossible to get and not a standard amount of mheal at all lol yet he uses it as his baseline. clownery
brother with max magical healing rolls on all gear and purple mystics and then your spellbook you have 24 magical healing lol which i mean every cleric in the game should be running after the first week of wipe so my b for saying 25 instead of 24 hope that helps you. saying its impossible to get 25 is just fucking stupid and it seems moreso like you have no idea what youre talking about but please feel free to cry about your giga broken class and for the record cleric is insanely easy to play. theres a reason cleric is the role that most of the mid people play cause they dont have what it takes to play a real class
@ I’m a top 10 wiz player rn lol I don’t need your lectures on how to play a real class goofy. My point about u using 25 being moronic is u picked an almost unachievable and never ran number as your baseline to do your math lmao. Even what you said now proves how little you know or at least how little thought you out into your words as to hit 24 you need +3 demonclads which you can’t get 1st week of wipe like you tried to mention can’t even get em 3rd week generally lmao. It’s hard to admit you’re wrong no doubt but I’m sure you’ll dodge that point somehow too by asking me something dumb lmao. Most people run around 20 as finding max rolls on every piece isn’t easy especially early wipe like you mentioned and cuz it’s not worth it to pass up on other really good rolls for 1 more mheal on some pieces. U sound less and less like you know what ur talking about everytime u say something bro from the 25mheal now y to u trying to justify what u said and bringing up 1 week after wipe when ur totally wrong again now 🤣
I'd like to see cleric pivot away from healing slightly to making protection their primary support ability. Maybe make sanc give phyical and magical bubbles rather than being a quick reset. Also give cleric a projectile damage spell. Really stupid that it doesn't have one yet.
I'm sorry, are you sure you figured out the question? The enhancement of magical healing can be obtained from several sources: 14 enchantment 5 perk, 3-4 seals, specific equipment (3 pants and a staff, the staff gives 3-5 (because you need to subtract 3 from the enchantment). Moreover, the maximum additional magical healing is 24 with standard equipment, and 32 with specific equipment (but most likely you will not wear a staff and pants). At the same time, if we consider an "adequate" amount of healing in a very good set (but not BIS), then the treatment will be 23 (unless you wear unique gloves) with a magic power index of about 60% For a "little" healing (15+23)*1.6 =60.8, for a large 76.8., and the sanctuary (5+(23/2))*(1 + (0.6%2)) = 21 per tick. The druid doesn't even get close to such values. (3 periodic treatments gives 106hp in 10 seconds). Now, given the popularity of fire mastery, the poison of the robber has reduced this healing by at least 2. Now you're talking about "huge" damage, but you build yourself a set with maximum magic healing with maximum added damage, with enough magic power. Now compare this damage with any other in the game, keep in mind that there are only 4 spell charges, and now compare your defensive parameters with any others in the game. In reality, unfortunately, the priest is just a non- and mandatory alternative support class. The author did not understand the question well.
you realize with 50% magic power your holy strikes and judgements are still doing around 40-50 damage and druid healing is mostly multi target so each restore is healing both of your allies as opposed to clerics lesser and holy light being single target.
@@toddfatherttv with 50% magic power and epic spellbook holy strikes(37,5dmg) and judgements(45dmg).We can say that this is a good damage, but not "huge" in any way. Wizzard spell explosion 42, and the fireball is almost twice as big, however it is worth considering that the added numbers work several times, and there are no special application requirements. Yes, it is indeed easier for a druid to treat two team shuttles at the same time, as well as due to his unlimited mobility, he can help his comrades who are at a distance. However, these advantages do not cover the disadvantage of the maximum 10xps (excluding dream fire) imao. I can also point out that in the priest multiclass, I will continue to take 3 druid spells in addition to lesser heal and resurrection. It's just that the druid himself lacks reliable explosive treatment at the moment, and the priest in turn lacks periodic treatment.
cleric is fine cause cleric is too slow, what needs to be nerfed is the cancer which is druid, wizard spell damage, rogue poison and longbow. Give wizard and rogue way more vigor but reduce there damage. I would rather get killed by barb or cleric rather than druid 1 tapping or panther hitting me so much before I even swing my weapon once with groot in my back.
You have plenty of over-simplified points, I am just going to point at one of them. Yes, holy strike into judgement is more damage than a fire ball. But it's not more damage than a fireball and then an instant cast fireball, which, if it hits, is going to melt anything, but a barbarian, and depending on the barbarian, it can melt them as well. You are comparing a spell + an ability to just one spell, instead of a spell + an ability.
yes but the point is wizard is a damage dealing class its supposed to be able to output an insane level of damage. cleric is not cleric is a support class that has the potential to almost instakill you WHILE applying a blind and a slow. not to mention fireballs at least can be dodged or blocked so they only do splash damage. and two splash damage fireballs is not the same damage as holy strike judgement
@@toddfatherttv That time you fought a team of barbarian and cleric and the barbarian had divine protection buff is when cleric is a support class. As well as that time you fought a team of ranger and cleric, and the ranger had smite buff. And you are right, two fireballs isn't the same damage as holy strike and judgement, it's more damage. Even so, your point is that the enemy jumps both spells, wherein because the second one is instant cast, the enemy would still be in the air, and they wouldn't have the time to land and dodge it. Not to mention, fire ball isn't wizard's only spell. A zap and an instant cast lightning strike could work just as well, still more damage than cleric's. Or, even higher skill play, a fireball, where the enemy is forced to jump it, and then you instant cast lightning strike where they are about to land. But, I guess that still won't do more damage than holy strike and judgement. Just the same way druid and bard aren't doing any kind of damage. They are support class, aren't they? And if a class like bard which buffs and deals damage is a support class, wizard has buffs and deals damage, wizard is also a support class. A support class like wizard has no right to deal that much damage. Heck, barbarian has buffs, wanna reduce their damage too? No matter how much you wish cleric is solely support class, it never was, and never will be. It's not like drunken fist brawling didn't happen in the playtests.
This is my issue with Arena. Classes will get nerfed off of feedback from back to back arena games where certain play styles and abilities are used 'in a vacuum' - if you nerfed healing on the cleric then it would literally be useless in regular dungeon mode and noone would ever play it..
Cleric is slow, slow to play, my grandmother opens doors faster than the cleric. He is easy to be beaten by a good rogue or archer. Judgment + Hstk does not kill good barbarian and fgter, Cleric has to have something good, healing, this character is an expert in that, that's what he does well. Barbarian kills you if you stick to him, fgter balanced, rogue dps and inv, ranger dps at a distance, CLERIC healing, is simple. Turtles are slow and tough, and have the wisdom to recover friends, perhaps in the arena, it is good, but playing with friends, cleric is essential, when playing informally, Especially with resurrection, it helps a lot, bless the clergy, because life is hard.
I have an idea that could help with the healing aspect, what if you take away the magic power scaling and reduce the heals by like 5-10 than double the spell charges this maintains there identity of burst heal but still slows it down
Maybe magic healing shouldn't scale with magic power. The other flat additional stats don't scale either, so why does magic healing do? Additional/True magic damage doesn't scale with magic power. Additional/True physical damage doesn't scale with physical power. So why does magic healing scale with magic power? It's an inconsistency with game mechanics.
@@flaviodelhusza8320 no its not bruh idk why this still needs to be explained lmao there are many damage calcs out by now and theyre free, true damage is not a str8 1 to 1 on damage, having 10 true damage does not give u exactly 10 flat damage ignoring all pdr/mdr on every instance of damage
@@wideout7838 Ofcourse not like that, but true damage doesn't scale with magic power, ignores body area multiplier like headshot, and ignored pdr and mdr. The only times it's not flat +1 damage is when you are talking about damage over time effects, or when an ability, like a spell, only has for example 0.5 scaling
im a big cleric main and been playing backline healing for like a year, theres never really been proper nerfs to healin, except the heal count (lesser heal was 3 but got rebuffed to 4) and the only real nerf is 1 less big heal. the base healing has got nerfed but sanctuary is way too much for healing, i have 23 MH and heal for like 90hp for big heal in like 0.8 seconds, it is riduculous, + health stacking for overheal. I love cleric and love backline healing, but when i play against it, it feels like im trying to kill an unkillable character when cleric is pocketing. there should be more counterplay, not just heal reduction for certain classes. Needs to be 1 sanc only, 3 lesser, 3 big heal, and it the magical healing stat needs to go down, for warlocks too, so 1 MH only on rings, and 2 on pendant and chest and book.
@SpinachOW2 tm will never be useless when you have phantomize and high ms, and 2 on pendant chest spellbook and 1 mh on rings is not even that bad. it's about a 35% reduction.
@zyro. a 35% reduction is MASSSSIVE. On my average 20k 330ms kits, 1 CoP will get me about 55hp roughly, I lose 8 on the cast. So about 47 profit. You would be cutting that down to 35, 27 profit. Not even worth it at that point when 1 surv bow hit will do at LEAST 25. TM would be fucking hot doodoo garbage.
The issue is that, despite what you said about cleric being good offensively, cleric is dogshit in solos, so the only viable way to play cleric is backline healer. Thus, If you nerf healer cleric too severely then the class will have pretty much nothing going for it. However, I do agree that things like judgement faithfulness and overhealing should be tuned down.
The devs need more than a couple ‘monster guys’ if they are to achieve that. I’m with you tho, I’d love phat raids with inspired boss mechanics. It’s just so far away with how basic the AI is right now
Nobody talking about how he has the best cleric character name of all time
Fighter is BROKEN... but why?Way too much healing as a tank class, way too much utility and speed, and alot of damage it gets ridiculious, you could stack buff duration on second wind and this is what, a million healed damage?I cant be asked to do the math, on top of that you stack max health then you take a halberd and do like over 100 damage every second, because that is how the scaling works, then you shoot people with your long bow and got 75% pdr , the damage is a hundred percent burst damage scale. Also the fighter wants to get the full value of his second wind, because you will find yourself in the situation where you got like 80% and you dont want to use it and then you insta die, so you just put up your shield and block the whole damage while you are at low health and get healed while you are a berserker , slashing down the whole lobby with your insane range, it just does everythingg and there is no charakter in the game that can match it, its basically a unavoidable damage.So in base gear , you basically do a 100 damage per second and you just cant outheal them, it basically does always everything and casically counters everything . Its insane how bad you can play as fighter, you take damage you take pokes just freely you miss all your hits it doesnt matter, because they just get tanked up, you hit 4 hits and they hit one coming up with an adcantage, because they got quadruple your hp at the same time. I fundmentlly dont agree wit it existing in the state it currently does, it allows to play with just w key and leftclick
Cleric has 1 thing it can do, sure overtuned a bit, but i feel like everyone is overreacting. Its not cleric that is OP. It is magical healing. Mag healing builds on warlock and druid are also insane. Scale mag healing down and the problem is fixed. Simple. Cleric also has a very high skill gap for healbot. u have to literally predict where ur teammates are gonna be and what they are going to do before they do it.
Very well said 💜💜💜💜
I agree. Especially people in high gear know clerics sustain ability and will go out of their way to dive you as soon as your frontliners are distracted. Cleric is tough and takes a lot of skill
Druid could have double the magical healing and still be useless compared to a cleric in 3v3. If the other team has a cleric and you don't it's over for you.
No. Cleric is definitely just op.
If said class is required for your team comp and the fact you’ll lose 9/10 if you don’t have a cleric and they do, then it’s a broken class. (in high experienced lobbies at least)
I think the magical power bonus scaling is way too high.. why melee classes only get +1 % (which only scales to bandages and physical attacks) when magic power gives 2% (which makes your heals, potions,spells better.. would fix a lot of issue with cleric, warlocks, wizard if it was down to 1% or 1.5%
Bro is trying to divert away from Druid so hard
How tf you compare cleric vs mage when at top 100 of arena there is 33% of mages?
Just add more support options on other classes. Having a support role in the game is healthy and adds diversity and depth. But it RUINS the game when there's only one class that can fill that role. Incredibly discouraging when you know no one that plays it. I didn't truly understand this until I took a break from playing Cleric to main Wiz for a while.
clerics reminds me of Apex legends when gold armor used to heal rly fast. The wearer could get in a fight, but if they got hurt a lot they could go behind a wall and be back at full Hp and shield, it pretty much meant a win for anyone who had it.
You have to use a heal on anyone under 100% because they can die to longbow/fireball to the dome.
Literally any team composition is served better by an extra wizard. Except if the opposing team has more rangers, then another ranger is better.
20:30 if the cleric is healing themselves he's not healing his allies or dealing damage to you. He's just buying time. A rogue/warlock/ranger/bard/wizard kiting you can buy time and deal damage at the same time.
Cleric is not a "do everything" class. They're slow and easily beaten in any fight. If you're 7m away from a cleric, he can literally do NOTHING to you. Use your bow/spells on them until they run out of heals and then all the cleric can do is try to waddle at you in plate or be a slightly tankier melee wizard when in cloth.
There is no way a holy strike can hit someone who is running away, they have to make a mistake to take it.
this is so insanely wrong i dont even know where to begin LMAO like you fundamentally dont understand the game for me to even explain whats wrong with your statement to you in a way you could understand it
@@toddfatherttv
Sure, it's why iron mace nerfed heals. Oh wait, they didn't.
Maybe it's you who has a fundamentally flawed understanding of the game outside of w-key fighter.
Play the healing cleric, though it may be outside your skillset because you can't just stat check your enemies, but who knows.
Its not Cleric by its self is the issue, its the frontline combo with it, Fighters and Barbs with like 50% PDR get 50% more value from heals
Cleric is far from OP
Yeah but Clerics are slow so they don't need a healing nerf -SDF's mentality
Not quoting him but thats sort of what he said in the Dev Q&A with Onepeg
the bigger issue is how high all sources of damage are, maybe if SDF's vision didn't include bows doing 80 or more damage we could have other healing options
As a cleric main….
This video made me sad for the inevitable nerf.
Every streamer and content maker started to cry about "how broken cleric is". Maybe they should try to play it at first. Omg i can't oneshot a guy with my 6 fireballs, because cleric can heal it. Yea ofc
Holy strike judgement combo = if you arent a barbarian you arent allowed to push the cleric into melee or your HP dissappears followed by stun lock.
Cleric is balanced at low/mid gear when they don't have insane amounts of magic healing, but the heals scale way too hard and it becomes very oppressive when you get to the 15+ magic healing range
Barb? Hehe chain goes brrrr
Toddfather plays and mains the cheesiest easiest brain dead class of all time, sprint and second wind are s tier and best skills in the game. He gets ranged great at melee get pdr and still can move quicker then cleric with more pdr and effective hp. Fighter takes no skill its a reason its the most played class and noob friendly.
barbarian is easier, but when a toddy comes in high pdr endgame gear i agree
God every class is busted. Literally all of you are complaining about every single class being busted and underpowered at the same time. This community just cant agree on anything. Its fine every class can be useful
Good vid, maybe lacked to contextualise why almost all those strenghts dont apply on solo at the same time lacking the most important thing in solos for a melee: a gap closer. And ultimately why they are holding on nerfing cleric, they want to fix mov speed meta b4 nerf cleric. I am being a little optimistic on the things they have said, but they are nerfing wiz every 2 patches bcs of trios/arena while not being good on solos, so I am pissed off too its not even a consistent balance approach.
Cleric is fine in solos if you play corners with judgement smite and get them at close range with the hitslows
cleric benefits from the "ms meta" you can easily make the class fast. It's just solo players are 90% bad at the game so struggle to even play cleric correctly
@@ivvvy solo players are always the best, because they cant rely on others, the larger the group the more suckers are around. Also Cleric doesnt benefit from ms, because he got no movement abilities, while having to rely on plate to compete - hence trashtalker spotted, wo struggles to even use basic logic correctly
@ plate 😂 you’re clearly new to the game its ok bud
@@ivvvy i was there since playtest 3 until the end of the first season, playing war maul cleric in playtest 4 and 5- you dont know the hustle. Also i have seen how wack teams are, you drink an invis pot and can solo a 3 man with a few precise swings
gonna put forth an unpopular opinion in the DaD community but a pretty much unanimously held consensus belief in every other class based game ever. (anyone feel free to reply if you know why this doesn't work in your opinion for dark and darker) but basically if you think of pretty much any other fantasy rpg /class game or whatever healing outscales damage 99/100 times in these types of games because of one main reason: healing is the button that says I don't lose the game right now, but damage is the button that says I win the game. Even going all the way back to actual dungeons and dragons style games healing is generally considered a suboptimal game action most of the time because taking time to not kill the enemy is just not as good as taking time to kill the enemy. And in video games as a whole the reason healing outscales damage kind of goes back to that initial table top principle because if damage and healing are equal why would you ever spend time healing when you could spend the exact same amount of time doing damage to the enemy at the same rate, when the enemy is dead there is no need to heal. Obviously there are tactics to consider like taking down time to heal when your ability to deal damage is low or you are not at risk of taking more damage etc. healing at any rate might still be a great option in a variety of scenarios but the principal in general still stands. Also just for a comparative in this game just look at any bis'd out physical damage dealer in dark and darker like a 50% power bonus long bow user with full true phys, are their arrows doing that much less damage than a cleric heals for? not really. I think there should be more healing reduction effects and more strong healing options in general buffing druid healing capabilities and all the other classes healing while enabling more classes to reliably mitigate healing would be the right avenue imo. if you have been one or 2 tapped by anything in the game (while wearing good gear) and you think a cleric being able to heal that much is the problem i just don't understand. I also think if there were like 3 classes that could heal as well as cleric this would just not even be a discussion people have but since DaD has pretty much only had 1 viable healing class for the majority of its lifespan that class gets all the attention for being good at the thing its supposed to be good at. Their burst might be a bit too high but without any significant long ranged option I don't think its that bad either. Wouldn't mind them getting some kind of holy bolt like spell and just nerfing all their damage spells a little so they don't just explode people that come close.
There is no real reason why they should add more healing classes when cleric and druid exist. Nobody wants more classes that feel the same as one already in the game. Also adding more healing classes just reinforces the idea that you need to run with a healer on your team which shouldn't be the case. The way cleric is right now allows teams with him to make way to many mistakes without punshment and teams withoutcleric have to play 10x better for the same result.
@@DefectiveAim according to your logic there should be no more ranged damage, because you can make more mistakes than melee without punishment - Sloozan made a very based comment, thats rarely seen under a Toddfather video and they should add back healing over time to bard, without the need to sit down
@maisda-l8e While ranged classes are strong and can somewhat make more mistakes its nowhere near as bad as cleric. Poor positioning with ranged classes can get you killed. Clerics burst healing is so strong that your team can make huge mistakes and get bailed out by cleric. I think the best change imo would be to make half the heal instant and the other half heal over time so it still heals alot but a bit slower
@@DefectiveAim poor positioning wih cleric can get you killed and ranged classes can make huge mistakes, especially fighter can make the most huge mistakes - if you are thinking the concept of D&D will totally change just because of some follower of a cringe dude like Toddfather, you must be wicked, for real tho, cleric is not a heal over time class and never was in any game, 50% heal over time?Wtf is wrong with you guys
@maisda-l8e Bro this how I know your buns at the game XD. Even with poor positioning alot of times cleric can spam lesser heal on himself a survive while his team helps. Heal over time wouldn't even be that drastic of a change. You say fighter can make alot of mistakes but fighter doesn't enable his WHOLE team to play reckless and get bailed out by insane healing like cleric. Cleric essentially makes it to where you have to kill someone multiple times over just to actually kill them and thats a problem
I dont disagree, but
1. if cleric healing is overkill, why are they not building out other secondary stats?
2. Would you say Arena is a good proxy for regular game balance at this point in what is meta and does well?
Its only overkill in certain situations and for those you have overhealing value. no arena is VERY different than the normal game because certain things like casters with limited spell casts dont have to care about them because theres no chance of a third party. if they want to balance theyd have to do separate balance for arena and normal game
Kind of like League of Legends Healing Supports are always mega OP in teamfights. They counter assasins(rogues), poke(mages, rangers), and can help keep your tank alive for days. Meanwhile they are dogshit useless in 1v1s. Its always gonna be impossible to ballance this game around solos, duos, and trios.
lol the judgement - holy strike bombs absolutely toss me into the grinder
Cleric is balanced
Just main Cleric for a while (5 and 10 spell) then revisit your points. You give so many 1 sided examples that clearly comes from someone with not enough hours on the class.
its op bro, and has been disgusting for so long. stop cope
i play cleric in arena its op asf
im not really sure todds even played cleric enough to have an opinion about it so many things he said were just so wrong it was laughable and idk if hed even be able to understand if you explained it to him lol. using 25 as the basis for Mheal on cleric in the very beginning is just the start lmao thats only posssible with unique mystics n max rolls on everything else, legit nobody runs 25 mheal and him not knowing that is just showing his ignorance lol. todd ought to main cleric for a month and come back revisit the topic, id pay cash money to watch him try and play cleric in solos for a few weeks lmao
todd is normally big L, but nobody has to play cleric 1000 hours to realize its stupid busted in teams. and yeah maybe not everyone is maxing out certain stats, but its comedic to try to say that they have to be absolute bis to still be incredibly impactful. they dont.
@@redasda but thats not what i said so why pretend like that was my point to make your argument make sense? I dont need you putting words in my mouth i said what i meant. Todd doesnt know what its like to play cleric, hasnt played it at a high level, and in general has no clue what hes talking about on the subject lmao. If a clerics primary function in the game is a healer and tons of the classes who are damage dealers can do 80% of ur hp in 1 second why wouldnt cleric be able to counteract that??? make it make sense lol. So many things todd said about cleric how it plays and the numbers were totally wrong and he proved it in legit his opening argument having no clue 25 Mheal is "basically" impossible to get and not a standard amount of mheal at all lol yet he uses it as his baseline. clownery
brother with max magical healing rolls on all gear and purple mystics and then your spellbook you have 24 magical healing lol which i mean every cleric in the game should be running after the first week of wipe so my b for saying 25 instead of 24 hope that helps you. saying its impossible to get 25 is just fucking stupid and it seems moreso like you have no idea what youre talking about but please feel free to cry about your giga broken class and for the record cleric is insanely easy to play. theres a reason cleric is the role that most of the mid people play cause they dont have what it takes to play a real class
@ I’m a top 10 wiz player rn lol I don’t need your lectures on how to play a real class goofy. My point about u using 25 being moronic is u picked an almost unachievable and never ran number as your baseline to do your math lmao. Even what you said now proves how little you know or at least how little thought you out into your words as to hit 24 you need +3 demonclads which you can’t get 1st week of wipe like you tried to mention can’t even get em 3rd week generally lmao. It’s hard to admit you’re wrong no doubt but I’m sure you’ll dodge that point somehow too by asking me something dumb lmao. Most people run around 20 as finding max rolls on every piece isn’t easy especially early wipe like you mentioned and cuz it’s not worth it to pass up on other really good rolls for 1 more mheal on some pieces. U sound less and less like you know what ur talking about everytime u say something bro from the 25mheal now y to u trying to justify what u said and bringing up 1 week after wipe when ur totally wrong again now 🤣
I'd like to see cleric pivot away from healing slightly to making protection their primary support ability. Maybe make sanc give phyical and magical bubbles rather than being a quick reset. Also give cleric a projectile damage spell. Really stupid that it doesn't have one yet.
I'm sorry, are you sure you figured out the question? The enhancement of magical healing can be obtained from several sources: 14 enchantment 5 perk, 3-4 seals, specific equipment (3 pants and a staff, the staff gives 3-5 (because you need to subtract 3 from the enchantment). Moreover, the maximum additional magical healing is 24 with standard equipment, and 32 with specific equipment (but most likely you will not wear a staff and pants).
At the same time, if we consider an "adequate" amount of healing
in a very good set (but not BIS), then the treatment will be 23 (unless you wear unique gloves) with a magic power index of about 60%
For a "little" healing (15+23)*1.6 =60.8, for a large 76.8., and the sanctuary (5+(23/2))*(1 + (0.6%2)) = 21 per tick.
The druid doesn't even get close to such values. (3 periodic treatments gives 106hp in 10 seconds).
Now, given the popularity of fire mastery, the poison of the robber has reduced this healing by at least 2.
Now you're talking about "huge" damage, but you build yourself a set with maximum magic healing with maximum added damage, with enough magic power. Now compare this damage with any other in the game, keep in mind that there are only 4 spell charges, and now compare your defensive parameters with any others in the game.
In reality, unfortunately, the priest is just a non- and mandatory alternative support class.
The author did not understand the question well.
you realize with 50% magic power your holy strikes and judgements are still doing around 40-50 damage and druid healing is mostly multi target so each restore is healing both of your allies as opposed to clerics lesser and holy light being single target.
@@toddfatherttv with 50% magic power and epic spellbook holy strikes(37,5dmg) and judgements(45dmg).We can say that this is a good damage, but not "huge" in any way. Wizzard spell explosion 42, and the fireball is almost twice as big, however it is worth considering that the added numbers work several times, and there are no special application requirements.
Yes, it is indeed easier for a druid to treat two team shuttles at the same time, as well as due to his unlimited mobility, he can help his comrades who are at a distance.
However, these advantages do not cover the disadvantage of the maximum 10xps (excluding dream fire) imao.
I can also point out that in the priest multiclass, I will continue to take 3 druid spells in addition to lesser heal and resurrection.
It's just that the druid himself lacks reliable explosive treatment at the moment, and the priest in turn lacks periodic treatment.
cleric is fine cause cleric is too slow, what needs to be nerfed is the cancer which is druid, wizard spell damage, rogue poison and longbow. Give wizard and rogue way more vigor but reduce there damage. I would rather get killed by barb or cleric rather than druid 1 tapping or panther hitting me so much before I even swing my weapon once with groot in my back.
dont forget to nerf fighter and barbarian, after you nerfed the whole chracter selection you souldnt stop at the most powerful classes
6:55 cleric is good but DRUID ISNT? Who is this guy seriously. Stevie wonder could see druid is way better than cleric lmao
sanc is basically 250% scaling
You have plenty of over-simplified points, I am just going to point at one of them.
Yes, holy strike into judgement is more damage than a fire ball. But it's not more damage than a fireball and then an instant cast fireball, which, if it hits, is going to melt anything, but a barbarian, and depending on the barbarian, it can melt them as well. You are comparing a spell + an ability to just one spell, instead of a spell + an ability.
yes but the point is wizard is a damage dealing class its supposed to be able to output an insane level of damage. cleric is not cleric is a support class that has the potential to almost instakill you WHILE applying a blind and a slow. not to mention fireballs at least can be dodged or blocked so they only do splash damage. and two splash damage fireballs is not the same damage as holy strike judgement
@@toddfatherttv That time you fought a team of barbarian and cleric and the barbarian had divine protection buff is when cleric is a support class.
As well as that time you fought a team of ranger and cleric, and the ranger had smite buff.
And you are right, two fireballs isn't the same damage as holy strike and judgement, it's more damage. Even so, your point is that the enemy jumps both spells, wherein because the second one is instant cast, the enemy would still be in the air, and they wouldn't have the time to land and dodge it. Not to mention, fire ball isn't wizard's only spell. A zap and an instant cast lightning strike could work just as well, still more damage than cleric's. Or, even higher skill play, a fireball, where the enemy is forced to jump it, and then you instant cast lightning strike where they are about to land. But, I guess that still won't do more damage than holy strike and judgement.
Just the same way druid and bard aren't doing any kind of damage. They are support class, aren't they? And if a class like bard which buffs and deals damage is a support class, wizard has buffs and deals damage, wizard is also a support class. A support class like wizard has no right to deal that much damage. Heck, barbarian has buffs, wanna reduce their damage too?
No matter how much you wish cleric is solely support class, it never was, and never will be. It's not like drunken fist brawling didn't happen in the playtests.
This is my issue with Arena. Classes will get nerfed off of feedback from back to back arena games where certain play styles and abilities are used 'in a vacuum' - if you nerfed healing on the cleric then it would literally be useless in regular dungeon mode and noone would ever play it..
As if normal cleric is balanced in trios in normal dungeons bro
santuary overheal your team , bles them , protect and lets go for some free kills
I still get stomped. It may be because I play duos and my other comp is a warlock but hr pvp embarrasses my cleric
Cleric is slow, slow to play, my grandmother opens doors faster than the cleric. He is easy to be beaten by a good rogue or archer. Judgment + Hstk does not kill good barbarian and fgter,
Cleric has to have something good, healing, this character is an expert in that, that's what he does well.
Barbarian kills you if you stick to him, fgter balanced, rogue dps and inv, ranger dps at a distance, CLERIC healing, is simple.
Turtles are slow and tough, and have the wisdom to recover friends, perhaps in the arena, it is good, but playing with friends, cleric is essential, when playing informally, Especially with resurrection, it helps a lot, bless the clergy, because life is hard.
Overhealing is good especially when you miss the heal in combat, hahaha removing the cleric's heal is removing his soul
I have an idea that could help with the healing aspect, what if you take away the magic power scaling and reduce the heals by like 5-10 than double the spell charges this maintains there identity of burst heal but still slows it down
Unbased video, only thing cleric has going for it is healing in arenas. In any other scenario the class is garbage
Cleric is so broken on arena
Maybe magic healing shouldn't scale with magic power. The other flat additional stats don't scale either, so why does magic healing do? Additional/True magic damage doesn't scale with magic power. Additional/True physical damage doesn't scale with physical power. So why does magic healing scale with magic power? It's an inconsistency with game mechanics.
this is just incorrect lol true damage does scale its not a perfect 1 to 1 damage gained from true damage
@wideout7838 wrong. True damage is literally flat 1 dmg. It has been tested countless times by the wikipedia team
@@flaviodelhusza8320 no its not bruh idk why this still needs to be explained lmao there are many damage calcs out by now and theyre free, true damage is not a str8 1 to 1 on damage, having 10 true damage does not give u exactly 10 flat damage ignoring all pdr/mdr on every instance of damage
@@wideout7838 Ofcourse not like that, but true damage doesn't scale with magic power, ignores body area multiplier like headshot, and ignored pdr and mdr. The only times it's not flat +1 damage is when you are talking about damage over time effects, or when an ability, like a spell, only has for example 0.5 scaling
im a big cleric main and been playing backline healing for like a year, theres never really been proper nerfs to healin, except the heal count (lesser heal was 3 but got rebuffed to 4) and the only real nerf is 1 less big heal. the base healing has got nerfed but sanctuary is way too much for healing, i have 23 MH and heal for like 90hp for big heal in like 0.8 seconds, it is riduculous, + health stacking for overheal. I love cleric and love backline healing, but when i play against it, it feels like im trying to kill an unkillable character when cleric is pocketing. there should be more counterplay, not just heal reduction for certain classes. Needs to be 1 sanc only, 3 lesser, 3 big heal, and it the magical healing stat needs to go down, for warlocks too, so 1 MH only on rings, and 2 on pendant and chest and book.
Unless they increase warlocks scaling you’re basically asking for TM to be useless
@@SpinachOW2 xD warlock is unkillable with the healing he now has, nerf is coming piece of abusing shit
@SpinachOW2 tm will never be useless when you have phantomize and high ms, and 2 on pendant chest spellbook and 1 mh on rings is not even that bad. it's about a 35% reduction.
Just give cleric 1 charge of each spells. Who cares about this class will die
@zyro. a 35% reduction is MASSSSIVE. On my average 20k 330ms kits, 1 CoP will get me about 55hp roughly, I lose 8 on the cast. So about 47 profit. You would be cutting that down to 35, 27 profit. Not even worth it at that point when 1 surv bow hit will do at LEAST 25. TM would be fucking hot doodoo garbage.
The issue is that, despite what you said about cleric being good offensively, cleric is dogshit in solos, so the only viable way to play cleric is backline healer. Thus, If you nerf healer cleric too severely then the class will have pretty much nothing going for it. However, I do agree that things like judgement faithfulness and overhealing should be tuned down.
cleric is in fact, not horrible in solos.
clerics OP in solos becuz of judgement/holy strike even barbs don’t push Clerics in Solo
If cleric is bad on solos then l2p lil guy u doing smth wrong
@@ptrRUclips no fr one of the top 3 classes for solo imo
@@Beedo- ye but this class is so npc and boring so it needs to be op otherwise noone would play it
Another video of toddfather complaining. If you hate so many things about this game, stop playing
if you hate so many things about my videos stop watching
FIiiiirst
Everyday I think that this game would be more fun as a trio pve game with pvp as a afterthought
The devs need more than a couple ‘monster guys’ if they are to achieve that. I’m with you tho, I’d love phat raids with inspired boss mechanics. It’s just so far away with how basic the AI is right now
A pve focused dark and darker simply wouldn't be dark and darker. Pvp interactions are the core game.