We need to talk about Standard...
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
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Some news sound like a fable, others just invoke despair
oh god
this change is like looking at standard through a broken mirror
Well Played
😂❤
there will be a reckoner in the next B&R
My first reaction to the news was literally "Oh no, somebody check on CGB." Glad he plans on doing more Historic Brawl
He didn't really say that though, he said he would play it just as much as before and continue to play it more just as he did before.
@@retributin2849 he said it in a video last week if I remember correctly
I like your point about Phyrexians. If you can’t make a deck viable in four sets, how is another year of unrelated cards going to help?
Especially when all of them are dead now.
I was really looking forward the pool of removal cards getting smaller.
We've had more board wipes printed int he past 3 years than ever before the amout of decent removal is unequivocal in today's precedent I'd rather have the days of path to exile back
i was looking for the fable of the mirror breaker to get tf out
The 2 for 1 and 3 for 1 cards like fable, invoke despair are much bigger issues than removal, imo.
@Michael Maniloff agreed, at least invoked is later in game. Fable has so much value early on.
Anyone crying about removal is just a degenerate scrub. Removal can literally never be too strong, even if it was literally free to cast. Why? Because you have to have a threat in play, or removal is dead. And guess what? THE THREATS ARE INSANE!!!!
Feels like a really weird call. It doesn’t address the fundamental issue which is that standard is just a much better value prospect on Arena whether or not rotation is extended. A set of Sheoldred is $10 on Arena vs whatever the hell it is on any given day in paper. I feel like the better call is to accept that Arena is where standard lives now, and to work on making sure issues like the hand smoothing algorithm are addressed in a way that’s condusive to competitive environments, and give the broadcast team a version of Arena that actually looks good and works on coverage instead of this horrible screen split crap they’ve been saddled with.
I think the worry is that Paper Magic might never return to its former popularity because new players weren't inducted during the covid pandemic. I suspect the best solution is to drop the price of MTG cards significantly and for Wizards to organise more events. However, Wizards is carrying Hasbro financially, so they are having to try something more 'imaginative' instead.
Wotc chased that commander money too hard and went and ruined their own game. 🤷🏻♂️
but you also dont OWN anything on Arena. The day they decide to shut the servers down, thats it. Nothing you have on Arena you really own.
@@PartisanGamerDE That's the same for all computer games - and even paper MTG - it's all going to be superseded at some point. For example, even Chess has been largely superseded by other games and Chess has been going for hundreds of years. A lot of games are going to be superseded now we've developed significantly good AI - I expect a lot of new games are going to be so much better than what we're playing now - better than both paper MTG and Arena.
Also, if all my cards were cardboard, I wouldn't want to bother with the hassle of selling them - you've got to enjoy buying and selling cards over the internet to make paper magic worthwhile and I'm not that sort of person. I recently inherited old cigarette cards from a relative and it's awkward because they might have looked valuable to my relative but to me they look like tatty rubbish. Also, in Arena you can quickly organise and search for cards, but you can't do that with cardboard cards.
@@morsmagne flip those cig cards fam, ez money
I wish they would rotate on a set by set basis. One new set in, one old set out. This would effectively increase the longevity of standard cards because they would all last for a full 2 years instead of some of them only getting ~15 months.
I think what would happen is that decks would only change slightly from release to release. Since most decks would only lose 1 or 2 cards.
They tried that in the early days of standard, and have rejected going back to that already.
Yeah but that scares away newer players even more since they will always be needing cards that are functionally dead within a few months to not simply be farmed by already enfranchised players
@@TheEvolver311 They could prioritize the most recent sets just like they do now.
@bastokrepublic but you always need the older cards from the full designed year cycle
Very disappointed with this decision from wizards. They should address the real problems of paper standard, like pricing, store support, competitive events, logisitic issues, and many others.
Wish I could bump this a million times.
Yes yes yes
They won't because the solution to those problems cost money. They are hoping to solve the problem without having to invest more money into it
Arena already addresses all those issues - except for the paper part
I actually like this. I've always wanted to get into paper standard but it was never the most popular format anywhere. I think this will change it hopefully
Do whatever makes you happy CGB, your best vids are the ones where you're having fun
Agreed.
Yup, I’d watch alchemy if we’re all having fun (cautious optimism)
That is true, but every once in a while when he’s miserable it’s pretty funny 😂
There are hundreds of Magic creators.. it won't make a difference
Pero-pero
I would've preffered this was implemented AFTER the previously planned rotation. I was really looking forward to Fable, Bankbuster and Invoke leaving standard.
This is a perpetual issue though. There are always going to be cards that need to rotate out. This just kind of goes to show that those cards should probably just be banned.
Yeah it's a let down.
The larger problem to me is that they would print Fable, Bankbuster, and Invoke in the first place. Those cards should not exist. They violate sane limitations of the game. I'm ok with a larger rotation of cards as long as they stop printing cards that do everything.
@@luxuryseaviewvillas6744 invoke really isnt that bad, bankbuster isnt bad either it's just value in every deck being colorless. fable is busted though
@@edwinortiz1262 i disagree with the way you are evaluating those cards. I started playing when revised first came out. I have seen a lot. bankbuster gives you a draw 3, a token creature, a treasure, and it has the benefit of being a decent-sized vehicle that avoids creature wraths, lightening strike, go for the throat, and cutdown.. Don't you think that's a little much for a card that costs 2 colorless to cast, that you can sink your mana into end of opponent's turn? And Invoke is a problem too. We have become used to the idea of 3 for 1's for 5 mana. But invoke's upside is massive, and it hits the upside too frequently. In this silly, stupid, midrange standard BS, invoke always seems to clear the things you need it to. And how many times do you need to see a 5 mana 3 for 1 card also happen to burn an opponent out at the end of games before you get sick? That card should not be finishing games,and it often does.
Wizards: we extended Standard, and we call the new Format "Extended"
Jeee… this comment brought me down memory lane!! I remember the old days playing extended (I believe it was like the year 2007 when I quit).
The real reason: We still have unsold inventory we need to dump and will see a loss in the 3rd quarter after rotation, which is even more bad news because Hasbro is already riding us to make more profit ad infinitum...
I give it literally a year.
I was thinking the same thing. They want to sell more cards.
And if you're playing Modern at your local game store, maybe you have the deck you like already?
With this announcement, my local game store is already starting to explore running Standard games.
So you are telling me there are modern decks that are legal in Standard? (I.e. they don't run fetches, shocks and MH cards?)
This!
@@d1morto no one will go back to standard in paper unless the barrier to entry is lowered. Meaning they need to drop the power level down, this change does the opposite and your cards still rotate even if it's a year later than usual.
@@guessthatsitthen4982 Pretty much. If you didn't like standard because it rotates, having it rotate a year later doesn't actually resolve your issue with the format.
could be a good idea to use the Pinkertons to promote standard events
Would you please elaborate on that?
@Felipe Pincelli Some bloke got sent cards early and did a video, WoTC sent the pinkertons around to his house to harass him and threaten his family
If they want to make Paper standard a thing again cards need to get cheaper. Which means reprints. They’ve done bonus sheets in both Brother’s War and March of the Machine. Continue that going forward but instead of non rotating format and EDH staples, those cards should be chase rares and mythics from current standard. Put Sheoldred, the Apocalypse and Atraxa Grand Unifier on a bonus sheet for Eldraine. Release more challenger decks which actually contain a playset of format staples. Paper standard decks can’t cost the same as a Pioneer deck and hope to thrive. That average cost has to go down from $400-$500 to $200-$250.
This is my point, but what's really crushing deck building are rare legendaries that see no play and have no trade value. If they make leg. uncommon it will guarantee more bang for the buck.
200$ is still very expensive for a gateway format. 100$ should be enough to build a competitive deck for a format that's supposed to be the entry point.
@@RafitoOoO I don’t disagree but at a certain point you rub against magic is an expensive hobby. You can’t have $100 full decks and a thriving secondary market making money at the same time. The margins on sealed product are pathetic. Most LGS keep the lights on by selling singles. I would also debate weather standard is or ever has been entry level. Before EDH the most widely played Magic was kitchen table house rules magic.
Hooray. Another year of thalia, invoke despair, and fable 🥱
The point they are avoiding is the problem with their design. How can you have 4 sets of phyrexians yet only one of them has the Toxic mechanic, and then say you don't have enough space to introduce toxic cards.
I honestly hope, for the health of the game WotC resurrects the "Banned/Restricted list," so that cards like these aren't flat out removed from the format. They are format warping, as we just saw in the Pro Tour over the weekend were Rakdos good stuff was half of the top 8 decks. Restriction will prevent the entirety of the outrage when a player buys, lets say 4 Okos for almost $100 each, only to have them banned a week or so later. Restricting these powerful cards to 1 copy, like how it was done in Magic's early days allows the cards to still exist, but not completely take over the format. Just as importantly it helps maintain higher secondary market prices rather than them instantly becoming worthless.
It was a great way to keep standard balanced and healthy. Restriction will make the longer rotation period feel much better, it will help prevent piles of only good stuff, it will lead to greater deck diversity, and most importantly it will help not immediately make people leave the game from having such a large financial outlay rendered moot.
Maybe now with the longer rotation, we'll have the chance of more counters to problems? Maybe more destroy enchantments, more bans? More use of my 🌳werewolf to get in there and blow'd up enchants and artifacts :D ... that's my mega + is that I get to play with werewolves another year.
When I heard this I groaned out loud and then IMMEDIATELY thought "CBG is gonna be devastated." 😂😂😂
I live in a major city and there are only two shops that run Standard. The rest run other things, and two of the biggest stores dropped Standard to run proxy-legal Legacy. Paper Magic just doesn't have anything going, weighed down with the worst card quality and most expensive products. My friends and I were a bit shocked with how much higher quality the custom-ordered proxies are compared to pre-damaged/warped cards in normal boosters.
I was REALLY looking forward to this rotation since most of the problem cards are in the sets about to rotate
Most of the problem cards are in Kamigawa... period. The two exceptions are Sheoldred and Atraxa which aren't rotating anyways.
@@squirlz333 So why is the deck with the highest win rate in Bo1 soldiers then :D
@@C42ST3N if you ask any professional player what the problem cards are no one is going to tell you Myrel or Skystrike Officer, and that's because soldiers is easy to deal with, that's why the deck doesn't exist in BO3.
@@squirlz333 true, but i have focused of bo1 and in that case soldiers are the way to go. In bo3 you are right. Sideboard cards ca control the soldiers really good
Going to start by saying I’ll watch any CGB video regardless of format, but I’m a huge Historic Brawl stan. Easily my favorite format on arena and my favorite videos to watch. It’s got me looking forward to Sunday and Monday just for HB videos 😃
Funniest part about this change, to me personally, is that when Midnight Hunt came out I crafted a deck entirely of cards from that set to get a full-cycle standard-legal deck. Now I get a whole extra year of play out of the deck that I bought in Sep of ‘21 😂
I am not not feeling so bad purchasing some of those lands "Late" on Arena now.
I totally agree with you. The reason they started messing with the standard back in the day, and had to resort to bands, was that the format, inevitably get stale. A larger carpool is not gonna help this, but do exactly what you said. People will just pick the two new cards out of each set to keep the same boring deck going for another year.
Ye, but I'm still for the chance to make old cards have their moment. Like...explosive singularity it's FINALLY a rogue strategy, instead of just a meme
the best thing about this announcement has been allowing me to finally spend wildcards on all the staples from sets that were going to rotate without feeling bad about "wasting" them for only a few more months of play.
@The Lord Sephiroth Don't downplay the power level of these cards. Most decks have a hard time dealing with fable. And sheoldred is only easy to deal with if you're playing black or white. What about everyone else not playing those colors? Terrible take.
Staples, or dual lands lol. Half the damn decks are rare lands nowadays it’s so toxic
@@Rahilda Green deathtouch creatures + fight/create deal damage spells? ... at least, that's what I would do if it wasn't turn 1 destroy creature, turn 2 exile creature, turn 3 _invert the multiverse upon a creature, causing it to implode into uninfinity..._ turn 4 obligatory 200% chance of playing Sheoldred on the spot.
But at least there's hope, right? 🤪
that's want they want you to do
@@pistolpete7422 Dual lands are staples, unfortunately.
I remember when getting a land card was boring. Now it is like "sweet, now I only have to buy 3 more of these."
But it is still boring. Wizards will never make rare lands not a necessity, though.
I started magic with standard. To me the rotation is the way to make it fresh, force the meta to change. I'm jsut gonna go play commander now🤣
They should definitely do rotation in 2023 and THEN implement the new rotation.
Maybe this will be one of those "look, we listen" changes they roll back. 😂 This should be a thing players get to think about and digest, not just sprung on us. Give us a fresh standard this fall and then lengthen the rotation length
That would be nice, but I think the purpose is to sell more stock from old sets that would rotate out in 2023
@@Kino280 It does seem like they wouldn't have sold as much of these old sets due to the pandemic. It also seems like they would be printing based on demand, so not sure why they would have a lot of stock when the low sales were highly predictable.
I remember when they decided to launch Modern and got rid of Extended - a format pretty much nobody liked. Modern grew quickly, not the least because of that dislike - if modern had failed, Extended might have returned as a competitive format. Now we`re getting what basically amounts to extended back. I think it's going for the long game - people will want to start to play standard in paper again, as soon as they go back to the old rotation.
I'm totally on board if you are giving alchemy another try. I've been trying to get back into it too and is kinda frustrated that no content creator is playing it, so I can't really see some of the cards in action before I craft them.
Also, since you mentioned that your have been getting into draft, I would love to see you play some limited too. It's super fun to watch people who are unfamiliar with limited to struggle and learn and eventually get better :P
I can definitely say that this will make me take another look at Alchemy. I haven't lost hope for Standard, but i have somewhere to go if it get tired of it.
Exactly my thoughts. I like it when standard is small - I loved standard 2021 and 2022 when they did that. So if I have to go to Alchemy for that, so be it
@@redmardamsma7917 early standard 2021 was literal christmas
I haven’t been playing Arena for very long really and haven’t even touched Alchemy yet so it’s definitely something I am thinking about checking out with this announcement.
I AM a grumpy old man. Been playing for about 27 years. The biggest complaint I hear from Commander players is that Standard rotates too quickly for them to bother investing in it. This solves that by making your investment into Standard last longer. My LGS was trying to host Standard but I'm the only player and none of the kitchen table Commando players will convert. I hate Commander and Alchemy bc that isn't real MtG.
If I can make a request: I havent really found a good video on what Commander is and how to play. If I saw a CGB Commander HOW TO video I would be all over that. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I'm pretty sure the Professor should have a pretty good one and maybe the Command Zone might have one? Tbh though - it's just the same thing as normal magic, just multiplayer and you start at 40 life + 21 damage from your commander is a k.o no matter how much life you might be at. Lastly, the colors you're allowed to play are dictated by your commander (a legendary creature, with some fringe cases)
You also get to draw a card on your first turn if it’s multiplayer.
But yea, get some friends, do some research, or even ask me and other people that may comment on this. Even if you reply to me in 1 year asking a specific question, I will answer it for you. We’re happy to help, friend!
These are some of your most interesting videos for me right now, it's very cool to hear your perspective and analysis on this stuff.
And your utter joy with Etali has been pretty entertaining
Please give Alchemy a shot come rotation in September!
I had a similar first reaction. The very first moment i heard the news i went "WHAT?" and i didn't like the idea at first. However, the more i stopped to think about it, i became more open to this change and curious to what else they would do. Its good to note that the mentioned this is just "step one" -secure the keys!- , so they might have other changes, maybe in card design philosophy, ban philosophy (like they mentioned during the announcement) and other things.
I think the first thing to keep in mind is that a longer cycle means more time with cards, so people find rotation something less problematic for them. However, the negative aspect would be a stale format for longer. But i feel like this reaction that "longer cycle means stale environment" doesn't necessarily need a rotation to happen as a solution. Because the issue is not a longer rotation, its cards not affecting the environment enough, the way cards are designed in a way to give so much value that its hard to compete against that without a power creep situation (which would be another problem). So, they need to change their card design philosophy too if they want this to succeed.
If they are able to, and *willing* to, make the appropriate changes alongside the extended rotation cycle, they could very well bring more variety to the format, more archetypes and decks on the table. Emphasis on *willing* . Because if they keep printing bombs that give so much value that it becomes hard to compete for that spot (or to answer it as an opponent), then it will eventually lead to a stale environment really fast (the best example right now could be Fable). So if they make cards focused on certain strategies as opposed to just being generically good cards that are very impactful, then i think this could also lead to a better format. Cards like Fable, Sheoldred and other similar ones that just add generic value instead of focusing on one thing need to be really reavaluated in design if they want to actually achieve more diversity.
Last, but not least, i wanted to talk about in this comment is about pricing. I saw someone make this comment on reddit so i'm mostly passing down some words, but they are worth listening to. If wizards want to keep their cards highly priced for collectors and people buying packs, i think even if they make the above changes correctly it's not gonna matter much if some decks costs too much money to build. Because then the players would still need to spend a lot of money on something that would rotate out, or not be willing to spend money on those very expensive cards, period. If new decks are too expensive to keep building then people will look for eternal formats as alternatives. I know that because its what i did as a newcomer. But if they make changes and make the environment welcoming enough, the appeal of different strategies, archetypes, a variety of things to look for to keep different decisions happening then the rotation aspect would stop being a detriment and actually be something positive. Because i firmly believe that the rotation aspect does affect new players because of the price.
So, i think this could lead to a really good state for the format but it will take time and some other changes too. I'm not saying all of the points i mentioned here *need* to happen for this plan to work, i just think they're valid points to think about for this plan of revitalizing Standard, or at least points worth discussing. Hopefully, its a change for the better. I'm very interested to see what else they'll talk about this on May 16th (as they mentioned, extended rotation is just step one).
One last observation I wanted to make is that, at the very least, props to Jensen to go on basically live on a sunday of a Pro Tour, while Top 8 is happening, a big event that was focused on standard and just straight up say that they are not satisfied with the Standard environment and that they want to make changes. He wasn't vague about it or tried to be positive about changes, he was very straightforward and blunt about their discontent towards the current situation. And the things he said were ones that resonated with the community's complaints. I know it could be the obvious but someone from wotc going live and being negative about a format on such an important day is not something to overlook. That is what gives me some hope that they could be willing to make good changes to make Standard a better format. But, we'll have to wait and see.
Sorry for the super long comment, and for whoever is reading this, have a good one \o/
Appreciate your thoughts! I've long since abandoned standard and most 1v1 formats, but I do try and stay abreast of developments and your thoughts were very well written!
@@mordamen Thanks! It is a very interesting topic to talk about for sure.
I'd be down for some new alchemy videos!! I remember the battle for the channel and I voted most of the videos for alchemy, because I liked the more frequent change and if it's getting better and more like a bit more "mechanichally" (with more mechanics like conjure etc.) than standard I'd love to see more of it! Would totally click that kind of Video!
I appreciate that despite your personal feelings on this, you're able to provide insight and feedback without hysterics. With this change to standard, is there a chance you might play more alchemy in the future? Also, would you consider doing a "state of the format" video for alchemy so we can understand which cards in alchemy you feel are more broken, problematic, etc.?
I'm very bummed about this too. I like standard being shaken up, and despite many honest efforts I am not a fan of how the alchemy cards play. Guess I'm just gonna have to go back to limited only on arena for next year because I'm so tired of seeing NEO/Innistrad cards 🙃
@covert What about a rolling rotation? So when the next set comes in, the oldest one leaves. Would that be a better solution than 12 set standards? I feel like it's hard to get people into magic bc sets are too large and have too many cards. This is the reason i don't watch historic.
If alchemy was a 1 year rotation id maybe play but alchemy is super busted even with 2 year rotations.
That's a really good point Alex.
I feel like if they switched alchemy to no new cards, only rebalanced/redesigned current standard cards, that would really make that format work. As is it’s just way too expensive to get into
I'm beginning to understand what they're planning to do. For it to work they're going to need a few more things: more agressive bans and also more "ever green" mechanics.
Well maybe not ever green per say but for example they probably need to have more cards with a certain mechanic in multiple sets. Mechanics can no longer be contained or exclusive to one set (like toxic or energy). Instead they might have 3 years worth of sets that include call backs and support for cycling, madness, flashback, tribal, domain etc. They need these archetypes to get stronger. But I don't know if they can for example include a few creatures with toxic in wilds of eldraine. If they can they should.
as a paper standard player, i really look forward to rotation every year. If I wanted to play a format with the same cards and the same decks id play modern or pioneer.
But they aren’t shortening rotation down to a year, they are adding one year to the cycle, making standard last 3 years from now on.
yeah that sucks
Them applying this change to standard but not to alchemy just makes me feel like they're intentionally trying to harm Standard for the sake of Alchemy.
As for me, Alchemy has a few mechanics I'm intrigued about, but most of the main mechanics are instant deal breakers. If they suddenly got rid of most of them, especially Spellbooks and Specialize, I'll gladly give it another shot. But until then I'll have to remain an old grump at heart :/
Still, I can imagine sticking with standard will get old fast for streamers and youtubers, I wouldn't blame any of them for leaving the format because of this.
A whole other year of Fable and Thalia...yikes.
Boy oh boy i cant wait to keep playing those BR midrange decks. Please friggin ban Shelly, Kiki, bankbussy at the very least
That was my initial thought on this news, complete stale trash.
As an Arena-only player, I would really be interested in trying Magic in-person, but then I look online and a SINGLE DECK is 300 to 600 dollars. That's just frankly obscene, and changing the rotation from 2 to 3 years is irrelevant. I would love to play paper standard but Wizards doesn't want me.
Willing to try Alchemy again after rotation 😅
I have a couple of considerations:
1) They can still enforce a soft rotation by banning at least Fable of the Mirror Breaker, Sheoldred, Wandering Emperor and Invoke Despair. There are plenty of cards in the existing pool that could rise and change the format dramatically without the need of seeing other interesting cards that were just not good enough to compete against the 4 mentioned. Not to mention that all of these are played in eternal formats, hence their monetary value should remain solid.
2) I still think that standard sucks because it isn't the prime factor taken into consideration to design a set. You said it yourself: lately most cards are interesting for commander but totally useless or not fun in traditional formats. Both MOM and Aftermath are prime examples of this point.
3) Although it feels like that the balancing team objective is to create a diverse environment, they should focus more on solving the issues that afflict this game since its conception, such as the non-games that happen due to mana-screw, flood and try to get the best players to win more by enforcing an higher number of difficult decisions. Otherwise if anyone is capable of mastering a deck with 15-20 days prep, most tournaments become a coin flip with a little bit of strategy in the long run. Piooner for instance is a format that's considered balanced, but the reality is that most matches are decided within the initial coin flip, I wouldn't exactly say that's what I am hoping for an healthy standard format to look like.
I loved Alchemy and when you had those videos where you played both decks, one standard one alchemy, I always voted for the alchemy deck because of the reasons you listed in this video. I wish you did more alchemy videos
im a commander / historic brawl player but i watch all your content because i learn a lot about how to play a more control style of magic and just in general how cards work and ive learned a lot about the game because of you so no matter what format you wanna play ill still watch and enjoy. thank you for all you do
well said
I’d be happy to see some alchemy content after rotation, perhaps a couple days a week alongside the crust that is standard
You're right, Alchemy still is a "heavens, no". The thing I want the most for Arena is a Ranked "Historic" Brawl without the digital-only cards. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Fully agree.
This announcement actually made me excited for alchemy. I think once the Lord of the Rings set comes out and the older sets rotate, it will be a completely different format from standard.
I do want that white faux counterspell
I was happy with playing Standard in Arena, and Commander/Modern on Paper. Now they'll mess up the Arena experience, and I still won't be playing Paper Standard.
This is unfortunate news I will probably give Alchemy the light of day come September. If you make that content I will watch it. But do what makes you happiest CGB!
Yeah, I had a nice big groan when I heard the news too. Like yeah was counting down the days where we can say goodbye to Talia, Bankbusters, Fables, etc etc etc. But alas what can you do, at least this means any wildcards used for them pay for themselves even more since they'll be around longer.
As for Alchemy, the thought of it actually rotating does make it seem a little more tempting. Maybe I'll give it some more thought if they ever change their stance on no wildcards for nerfs.
I am very open to seeing alchemy post rotation! I can’t be the only one who is willing to take some alchemy over no rotation
which probably is WotC's reason for doing this ... they still want to sell you more product in the form of Alchemy cards.
Was actually sunday and they first did an announcement mid top 8 of the protour on stream and came on like "we have news for standard". Then the articles popped up a bit later with all the info.
I think what they mean by seeding entire decks is that they will introduce new competitive decks with a single set revolving around a single new theme.
Yeah, that's how I understood the 3rd point.
@@nathanielkrok9250 that's not how it works. You need ghe theme to be spread across 2-3 sets, otherwise it ends up like adventure, which played the same Eldraine cards for 2 whole years.
As a casual player who enjoys watching the competitive scene, i get excited to make decks ahead of time imagining what the next "meta" would be like if we just look at the sets not rotating out. This effectively says I can't even do that atm but i might do it anyways. New cards are always more exciting, but i do appreciate the longer longevity for the paper set because that means a lot of cards i have will be around even longer, which has a lot of cool stuff in it! (I think anyway?)
This is also a really clever way to incorporate interest in Alchemy. Paper specific problem having this issue but alchemy will rotate out. Very interesting circumstance.
The main thing with Alchemy that bothers me is that my paper cards have other texts than the digital cards. - So. Drop Alchemy and create „Arena Standard“ with faster rotation and i am fine with that.
but selling you Alchemy is very probably the point here. They want to force people into Alchemy on Arena.
@@PartisanGamerDE This.
@@PartisanGamerDE No, certainly not. This was done primarily for paper standard, since that format is basically dead. You can't have the flagship format of your card game be dead.
@@retributin2849 there is a reason why Alchemy continues to rotate every two years.
From the outside, it feels like paper magic is at the market saturation point, where they're trying to leverage financial income and physical event participation is a strange balance. As a casual, eternal supporter of the game I think the speed at which magic arena has allowed the game states to evolve has so far outshadowed paper magic that it might as well be a different game.
That feels like the point they want to make.
I sure am left reeling by all the sets and specials released everywhere, and feel like online is the only way to keep up. Paper magic sure is its own thing though, isn't it? Nothing quite like a pre-release.
The problem between paper and arena is you can spend the same dollar amount on arena and have the entire set vs having 1 competitive deck in paper
or you could just go into pioneer for the same amount and be in a format which is much better.
I remember back in the day 2010 - 2013 my personal favorite years for MTG Standard we had 2 years infront of us for gameplay with the Scars of Mirrodin Block and Innistrad Block!
As a previous LGS Owner ppl stopped playing standard because of the cost and with the whole fiasco in 2019 with the banning of standard cards because of WotC not playtesting properly, a lot of ppl just got out of standard and shifted to Modern, Pionner, Pauper and EDH.
So for me it is for the best to have a block lasting longer since new expantions adding to the standard pool you will see a bigger variaty of decks and strategies arise and ppl will be more excited overall
Maaaaaan if they don’t have rotation they need bring back meathook
Meathook ban is what made me quit paper magic. I'd invested in a couple of physical copies and been lucky enough to pull one from some packs and having it arbitrarily banned was just a gut punch, broke a deck I'd spent a lot of time and money on and it was enough of a momentum killer that I stopped buying magic cards and stopped playing paper magic. This has also led me to severely reducing my play on Arena, I'll watch CGB play but I'm not investing my time or money when Wizards just seems to be so nonchalant about me wasting my hard-earned cash. At least on Arena when they ban a card you get wildcards, in Paper magic you get a middle finger.
@@protoquark man that is brutal but i definitely understand why you quit justice for meathook!!
The question to ask in order to understand this is, how does it make them more money? Especially since rotating cards innately benefits them (forces more buying etc.) It could have gotten so bad that they are desperate BUT I’d be surprised if there wasn’t another angle that will become apparent in due time.
The problem with alchemy is that it is a massive rare/mythic wildcard sink. If it was designed to be a fun digital only mode it shouldve been more heavily on the common/uncommon side. As it is the optics make it look like a cash grab.
Wonderful content in this second channel! Just a idea maybe for your to try: I found myself in Mythic using shell of Urza's Sylex + milling Jace + Cut your losses + "blow all up" cards. It is Esper.
I’m open to watching Alchemy videos post-rotation. It would help with learning the new cards that you’ll see people playing and maybe de-mystify the format a bit. I too liked the idea of Alchemy better than the execution and am optimistic that R&D can learn from past mistakes
My first blush take on this is that I'm very interested in the idea of them being able to reactively design new cards for Standard rather than only being able to proactively design cards for Standard like the do now. If that is a thing that makes Standard a more healthy format I think this decision is going to feel like a bad move in the short term, but in 12 to 18 months it will be looked back on as a very good move in the long-term. But I'm also trying to hold forming a firm opinion on this until after the May 16th WeeklyMTG episode on Twitch because it feels like that's when the rest of this annoucement will drop and we'll have a much better look at what this actually means going forward.
Can they proactively design cards though? making a solution to a problem 2 years after the problem rears its head is not a solution.
I’m happy to give Alchemy content another shot if the rotation difference makes it suddenly a much more interesting format than Standard. Also as primarily a commander player, always happy to see you doing that. You’re slowly selling me on Historic Brawl.
"It's a trap!"
I DESPISE alchemy. It's just an excuse to create OP online format exclusive cards that don't need proper balancing because they're not real paper cards.
@@veeclash4157 yeah I’m not gonna PLAY Alchemy or anything, but whatever OP bull they put in it over the next year might be more interesting to watch than another year of Sheoldred/Fable/Invoke Despair.
sucks for content creators but as an average player who has to be cautious on what to spend money/wildcards on I appreciate the longer standard duration. I think it is a good change for most of the people
I would watch some alchemy videos. I think once a week would be a good pace. It'll be a very different meta from standard, but still recognizable, I would imagine. Which would make the videos interesting to me and others. I am not someone who plays alchemy now, but that is mostly due to wild card budget. But I am now definitely interested in exploring alchemy post rotation
This is a good thing I think if they do 1 or both these things:
-Actually print cards that are powerful and can change metas and not print like 35% of the set as commander cards
-Ban cards more often, with a larger pool we can afford to lose 1 card that's a problem
Good luck to WotC getting stores to go along with this. Doubt it’s happening anywhere near me.
What do you mean stores? Nobody plays paper standard.
@@butttter my LGS is surprisingly active. Supports modern, pioneer, and has 3 days a week of open EDH play. Zero standard events though. Will that change? Maybe in the future but nobody is clamoring to get back into standard and new players seem to be being introduced by Commander.
It was great to meet you at the event - happy to follow you through whatever format you play - love the brawl content - and we all can be quoted to say I'm excited for rotation... you rock!
They should go back to the 2 blocks + core set rotations, I think the problem is the crazy amount of product that gets released into Standard.
Been watching you for a few years, CGB. I don’t comment much but I like every single video to help the algorithm. I don’t speak for everyone but I speak for myself when I say that it doesn’t matter what you play… I watch you for you and your fun decks and brews. I’d watch alchemy if you wanted to play it. I watch everything you put out because of you. Carry on, you’re cool.
I'd watch Alchemy, but I don't know if I could get into it to play. Every time I accidentally played an Alchemy game with my standard deck I felt like I was walking into a Legacy tournament and the opponent had me dead by turn 2-3 at the latest. I'm not sure if I'm interested in buying a whole new set, especially when it seemed like setting up something like dropping 34 dragons on turn 3 is how it works.
I thought the point of Alchemy was to lower the power level of standard cards. Maybe I am mistaken.
I really am in Magic for standard. Hoping for some bans, but even if there aren’t any I’m still here.
What bans would you like to see
@@scottdowle8218 Reckonen Bankbuster
WOWOW WE GET TO SEE FABLE OF THE VALUE BREAKER AND INVOKE SADNESS AND SHELLYDRED FOR ANOTHER YEAR WOWOWOWOW
On a more serious note, I wish Standard (or Magic in general) was more affordable. Obviously there are some decks that are quite budget friendly (Mono Red, Mono White) but this change does not feel like its a nod towards making Standard more affordable. If anything, I would really enjoy Historic (minus alchemy) to be paper playable; and then all of my cards I bought and enjoy are still playable.
Listen, I'm glad Thalia is staying but holy hell, I'm so tired of invoke despair, fable of the mirror breaker, wandering emperor, bank buster and farewell.
Most of those, yeah, but farewell? No tier deck plays that. Its too slow against aggro, and dogshit against invoke/sheoldred.
@@MetalHev I'm still tired of it.
it's kinda hilarious (or sad maybe?) that all those cards are from the Kamigawa set
I think kamigawa neon dynasty competes with eldrain in power level and let's face it now you think oko would of been banned if there was invoke despair mono black running amonk. Turn 3 its sitting with kill spells and not really putting any thing that can get stolen oko doesn't want Elking a graveyard trespasser is just discarding a card to it 90% of the time. Sheoldred sure gets elked but not after she already drained you two life. And then just gets eaten by the invoke.
@@plaxy100 Oko was legal alongside Veil of Summer
How could a bigger card pool lead to more support for specific archetypes? It would be more likely to lead to more midrange interactions between sets IE bloodtithe harvester into Kiki into Sheoldred into Invoke Despair. Most people will play the same 50 card deck, swapping out 10 cards based on the meta and personal tastes. I don't expect a longer rotation to fix this problem, but if you're collecting paper magic cards, it should limit your costs.
Personally I like the Alchemy format, would be happy to watch videos of it :)
Hello CGB. When i first read the annoucement and reached the part "alchemy will rotate"... well i tought Wizards was doing a 2 in 1 making paper standard last longer is more appealing to card traders and players to invest in the format and also trying to lure disgruntled arena players to alchemy after rotation. I'm gonna stick with standard cause alchemy and historic brawl aren't really options for different reasons that i will explain further. Came back to arena after a three year break right before Dominaria United release and played alot of jump in events to boost my collection and i hated facing alchemy cards cause of the absurd power level and mechanics. I can't stand boon or perpetually mechanics and that's just two examples. I like the brawl format but Historic Brawl means having to invest in alchemy cards so it's a turn off for me. Also not playing from M20 to Dominaria United leaves me with a limited cardpool to play with because there are lot's of good cards i'm missing since from older sets. I'm mainly a standard player and with sets coming every two months it's so tough to spend 15-20 wildcards to make a decent brawl deck otherwise i won't have resources to be competitive in standard. Historic brawl presents a big barrier to entry for new and returning players. Explorer brawl otherwise could be less wildcard intensive cause today's standard cards are tomorrow's explorer cards and all those cards would be available for explorer and hopefully someday pioneer on arena. Did i already mention not wasting resources on alchemy cards to play Explorer Brawl hehe, really can't stand it for now but my opionion can change in the future. Sorry for the wall of text but that's my take. Cheers
PS: I hope for it but don't believe they will ever release explorer brawl cause wotc still trying to make alchemy work and creating a format that directly competes with a format that uses alchemy cards is not the way to go for it.
I would definitely be interested in some alchemy vids. Especially with the lord of the rings set coming up
As a f2p player on arena this is a welcome change to me. Get to play the cards i've invested my wildcards on for another year.
I started playing Alchemy and I have been enjoying it more than standard. I am looking forward to seeing it after rotation.
I am really confused now. Firstly I hate the idea of playing on more year of Fable, Invoke Despair and all the other cards that don't come to mind right now for what... Another 16 months from now?! Goodness...
But they also change a what was meant to be eternal format that was balanced by them into a rotational format? At this point the question has to be allowed: "What are they on?"
Nowhere near me or I think in germany you can buy premaid Standard deck which you might start making better once you get into the game and format. Not even on Amazon you can buy such a thing here. This would be something where they can start... But not destroying the most loved and most played format. DO NOT REPAIR IF IT AIN'T BROKEN!!!
Im done with magic. Its too stale and new cards wont get their chance. Why have a 3 year rotation where people want current cards out?
I’m always down for a new experience. Who knows may be fun.
I would absolutely watch Alchemy vids if you made them
To me so many problems with Arena come down to its economy. Id love to give Alchemy a shot, but investing even more wildcards into a format where it seems only rares matter and none of them can be played in standard just doesnt seem like an option.
Since im not playing alchemy i find it less interesting to watch than standard.
Would love for arena to have more options to play games with even smaller card pools just to see what decks rise to the top there.
Pushing rotation for standard and leaving it for alchemy seems like a move to push people to finally start investing into Alchemy on Mtga.
Oh well
Keep fighting the good fight, CGB. Alchemy is trash and I won’t play it, but Standard is my passion and I will roll with whatever Wizards throws our way.
I live in what could arguably be called the worst environmental play vacuum in the US for all things Magic, but especially Standard. The overwhelming consensus amongst the players here isn’t that the format needs to be extended to keep cards relevant longer, it’s that Wizards has slowly but surely been dwindling prize support for FNM Standard over the last few years to the point that it isn’t worth the investment. There’s no incentive for being a good, competitive player. You walk away with essentially nothing, barely more than what you paid in to play. If Wizards would support Standard the way Konami supports Yugioh! then Standard would explode in paper again. People would be lined up at their LGS’s to get a seat at the table for a shot a valuable prizes and loads of packs.
I found it odd that they didn't announce this but say the three year rotation starts after the rotation that was coming this fall. It would let the staleness of this format be out of peoples minds and let the player base embrace the change knowing their was something fresh on the horizon.
I literally can't keep playing against kumano, invoke despair, thalia, and fable. Bring on the alchemy
Mostly I watch for your enthusiasm. I'd watch you play any format that you enjoy (which is why I've been loving the competitive brawl content) I know analytics probably don't bear out my views on the whole, but that's how I feel. looking forward to more Brawl from ya and any standard you can stomach.
What do you wanna bet that one of the "steps" is doubling the price of things on Arena?
Well i guess I'm dropping magic all together, following the Pinkerton development and now this , its time for a prolonged hiatus. Good luck and best wishes on your channels and coolstuff dude .
how will they alchemy rotation work? Are they losing all standard cards from those 5 sets or just the extra alchemy cards? (in alchemy format I mean)
its kind of weird either way. like if fable is in standard but not in alchemy thats weird, because alchemy will always have different sets in it than standard unless they "skip" a rotation year in the future for alchemy
I stopped playing MTGA entirely when March of Machines came out, I got to level 5 on the mastery and just felt very burned out on the format. I think that they saturated the market with cards way too quickly, they released sets practically back to back, and the meta game of agro-red and agro/mid-range black was too dominant to offer any variety. It seems that they’ve created an unwieldy collection that’s too baked in its form to reign in. It’s unfortunate to hear that they are pushing out rotation, I’ve found the gameplay too toxic (not the counters) and boring to be fun in standard, and refreshing rotation at least changes the game state. I’ll probably still watch CoverGoTwo to stay in the loop but hope you can find some fun in MTGA!
*Tries to do something different in standard.*
*Builds slightly different version of mono-red.*
I feel like they need to expand on the blocks more to help give more support to one and done block mechanics if they are going to do this otherwise you will just get this midrange good stuff all the time.
I agree with a lot of what your saying. In order to make this work they would need to plan way ahead and they probably haven't. Too many removal, board wipes, Pwalkers, etc in a rotation will make it not fun. I think they are doing this for the stores, not the players. People aren't buying playsets of rare cards or a crapload of packs just to get uncommons/commons for standard anymore, just the one they need for Commander.