Can you do a video on your programing philosophy? I know you're on the same page as PC for the most part but maybe you can go into the optimal way to find YOUR optimal frequency. Also most humans fall in a bell curve so more than half the population will respond best to a given frequency for each muscle group. Also some muscles probably need/more or less sets. Can you go into that as well? thank so much
I love the nuance in this video. Too many fitness influencers make it seem like you must ONLY do this or that exercise and that one exercise is ALWAYS going to be in a certain tier and nothing else, i like the fact you mention that some who wont be used to the movement wont instantly connect to it or get the most out of it, then give it different ranks cos of that
I have the Nautilus Leverage plate loaded machines at my gym and love them. The great thing about those machines is that most of the bros at my gym don’t seem to realize how awesome they are.
Incline dumbell press is higher than flat dumbell press, because (most people) are able to do less weight on incline and therefore its mentally less hard and you can focus more on technique
I’ve done a lot of chest exercises, I typically like converging chest presses because it gives a nice squeeze at least for me and I can really feel my chest but because these can be rare In certain areas Ï honestly believe that a standard bench press and incline bench is one of If not the best exercise I’ve done
Really great video but for anyone who is switching up their program or trying to do any of these lifts you don't particularly like just because they may be better in terms of hypertrophy just remember if you are sleeping well, getting proper nutrition, hydrating well, training close or to failure, progressively overloading every single one of these exercises can and will get you exceptional results.
What about push ups and dips ? Stable,can push them hard ,stretch friendly etc. The only problem i can see is with the push up - you can't load it very easily , however you can with the dip ,even microload it ,so it should be at least A tier ,right ? Many calisthenics guy build phenomenal chest with those 2
Love this night routine. Only thing is I have roomates and just the background noises of them in the kitchen, closing doors and on the phone and that stuff keeps me up when I’m trying to fall asleep. I wish I could go to bed at 8pm each night but it ends up being around 11 when the house gets quiet.
15:25 I think your editor put the wrong pic. I think you meant the 'Panatta power smith dual system upper/flat' where its two independent handles that converge
Imo another S-Tier is the leaning forward pec deck to target the upper chest. What about single arm pec decks where each arm does the full ROM (making the hand go past the middle of your chest)?
Presses are the one area that machines never feel right on my shoulders. I’m sure there are machines I don’t have access to that would work better. I’m also sure that I’m getting subpar hypertrophy stimulus using free weights but they just feel better on my shoulders long term. I found the machines for pressing much less easy to adjust to than for the back or legs which were immediately beneficial and easy.
My chest day lately is consisted of two S tier and one A tier exercises of yours, plus another one which you didn’t include: the cable chest fly, decent tension on both the stretch portion and the peak portion of the movement, may or may not lack a bit of stability, my guess is it might fall into the A tier for you. Would love to hear your opinion on it since it’s a pretty common exercise available in most gyms too
Are the neurological adaptations that you get from dumbell chest press similar to that of bench press or will I need to adapt to bench press for a bit before going for a strength test?
What abt cable bench press, in my opinion my favorite chest exercise of all time u can combine both the pressing and the flying motion in an exercise like this
Cable presses? As an older lifter cable presses with a bench at 90 in a dual stack has been awesome. Not saying it’s an A or S but its easy on bad shoulders
My only question: Would you say someone who gets super strong on a chest fly machine will get bigger pecs than someone who does different B tier presses? I think Chest Fly is S tier for its purpose of isolating the chest but is it really as good as presses for overall chest?
Quick irrelevant question, if on the nutrition values of my packet of chicken it says ‘oven baked’ under Typicsl values. Should I weigh my chicken after it’s cooked?
I would agree with your most of your ranking but for different reasons. You ranked machines that often don't give as much length on the chest higher than free weights that do give that MAXIMUM length for bad reasons. Like, sure there's less resistance on a flat dumbbell fly near the top, but that's perfectly fine, because that's the least important trainable range of the chest with likely only regional hypertrophy benefit. Regional hypertrophy is icing on the cake, not the cake. Many of these machines don't allow for as much stretch. Like, flat press, fly, and dumbbell pullovers I would say are A, assuming your neurologically adapted to the exercise or else MPS will be more for recovery than any growth, because everyone can get maximum stretch from them, and you can simply switch to a neutral grip at the bottom if the dumbbells are that big or just use less weight by getting more out of less weight, like pausing at longer at the stretched position and slower eccentrics. I think you mentioned some of the drawbacks of them without the unique advantages. Lastly, the only reason why these free weights are not S is simply due to the greater fatigue. The greater the stability demand, the greater the fatigue on the supporting tissue and muscle.
A lot of what you said is simply untrue. The vast majority of proper machines can be adjusted to get as much length as you will ever need. This overemphasis on stretch is causing people to go past ranges where they can produce significant force, and the machines can typically go to the full length necessary 🤝
@@RealTNF wait, hold on, I actually want to learn. What did I say that was wrong and why? The chest press machine thing was kind of a personal notice of mine, especially since my frame is a bit smaller genetically, so it's harder to find machines that suit me, but much of the rest was stuff I've heard several times from PhDs in field.
Probably don't agree with a good portion of the ranking but really enjoyed how non-dogmatic and open minded this video is and how you approach exercises with the acknowledgement that there is a range of quality depending on the context. The video goes on the S tier.
Not sure if you've covered this before, but does the chest need to be worked in the shortened position? for example, would you be fine doing a non-converging flat press, a non- converging incline press, and dips as your chest workout?
Where would you rank cable presses/flies? I know they’re a little less stable than machines but also can fit people’s anatomies better so wondering what the trade off for you is like
Hey TNF. Do you think it's important, as a full-on beginner, to train stabilizer muscles doing Bench Press/Incline Bench is important or is that misunderstood?
I usually do my flies with cables because chest fly machines put my shoulders into a painful position for whatever reason. But holy shit that fly machine is insane, I bet it feels amazing
What’s your opinion on cable pressing? i usually use a non-hammer incline machine and flat db at my gym but in my home gym I like doing horizontal cable presses with a bench upright. I feel a lot of tension and i feel that the ability to supinate during the eccentrics and pronate as my elbows converge allows me to feel it more. Am i using bro science or is this logical.
Because I get asked this all the time, the whole outfit, straps included are from Ekko. The straps specifically are “cuff straps”
When they back in stock
@@lucasirvine6259not sure to be honest
Can you do a video on your programing philosophy? I know you're on the same page as PC for the most part but maybe you can go into the optimal way to find YOUR optimal frequency. Also most humans fall in a bell curve so more than half the population will respond best to a given frequency for each muscle group. Also some muscles probably need/more or less sets. Can you go into that as well? thank so much
man i thought you said you were gonna be making a split video
We need cuffed ones with the TNF logo on them!
will be using these on my next leg day!
Hey you can’t do that 😡
What day is it, leg day
What's the first exercise, bench press 😂
Thank you for the advice Tumor Necrosis Factor!
Any time!
joel the voices are getting louder
Good
That's the most optimal
Please keep doing this series with every muscle group!
I love the nuance in this video. Too many fitness influencers make it seem like you must ONLY do this or that exercise and that one exercise is ALWAYS going to be in a certain tier and nothing else, i like the fact you mention that some who wont be used to the movement wont instantly connect to it or get the most out of it, then give it different ranks cos of that
Absolutely!
Great video bro, id love a series out of this.
Also glute spread reveal?
I have the Nautilus Leverage plate loaded machines at my gym and love them. The great thing about those machines is that most of the bros at my gym don’t seem to realize how awesome they are.
That is awesome!
I was wondering about weighted dips. They seem to explode my chest more than any other exercise, the stretch I get at the bottom is insane!
thanks for the kelso shrugs buddy
You bet!
didnt know i needed long form TNF content
15:26 dips?
Incline dumbell press is higher than flat dumbell press, because (most people) are able to do less weight on incline and therefore its mentally less hard and you can focus more on technique
W video love the advice and the content keep doing this series pls !
Please do this for every muscle group TNF for the people.
So no dips
love the quality on these videos
Glad to hear!
No dips?
What about the dip? It’s one of my favourite excersises so it’s a staple for my push days
I’ve done a lot of chest exercises, I typically like converging chest presses because it gives a nice squeeze at least for me and I can really feel my chest but because these can be rare In certain areas Ï honestly believe that a standard bench press and incline bench is one of If not the best exercise I’ve done
Really great video but for anyone who is switching up their program or trying to do any of these lifts you don't particularly like just because they may be better in terms of hypertrophy just remember if you are sleeping well, getting proper nutrition, hydrating well, training close or to failure, progressively overloading every single one of these exercises can and will get you exceptional results.
What about push ups and dips ? Stable,can push them hard ,stretch friendly etc. The only problem i can see is with the push up - you can't load it very easily , however you can with the dip ,even microload it ,so it should be at least A tier ,right ? Many calisthenics guy build phenomenal chest with those 2
What about cable fly?
you should make this into a series for the other muscle groups too
Love this night routine. Only thing is I have roomates and just the background noises of them in the kitchen, closing doors and on the phone and that stuff keeps me up when I’m trying to fall asleep. I wish I could go to bed at 8pm each night but it ends up being around 11 when the house gets quiet.
15:25 I think your editor put the wrong pic. I think you meant the 'Panatta power smith dual system upper/flat' where its two independent handles that converge
Read the caption
awe man I'm sorry didn't see that😭@@RealTNF
What about dips?
What about wide dips?
Pec dec hurts my shoulders no matter what so nah, I believe a good converging press and incline smith performed correctly is 100% enough for chest
@15:24 did you mean the panatta dual smith machine or the one in the picture?
Imo another S-Tier is the leaning forward pec deck to target the upper chest.
What about single arm pec decks where each arm does the full ROM (making the hand go past the middle of your chest)?
Need a list for back and legs
TNF the goat
Where’s the incline edge machine?
i’m very lucky to have a incline bench at my gym that is 30 degrees instead of 45
Presses are the one area that machines never feel right on my shoulders. I’m sure there are machines I don’t have access to that would work better. I’m also sure that I’m getting subpar hypertrophy stimulus using free weights but they just feel better on my shoulders long term. I found the machines for pressing much less easy to adjust to than for the back or legs which were immediately beneficial and easy.
My chest day lately is consisted of two S tier and one A tier exercises of yours, plus another one which you didn’t include: the cable chest fly, decent tension on both the stretch portion and the peak portion of the movement, may or may not lack a bit of stability, my guess is it might fall into the A tier for you. Would love to hear your opinion on it since it’s a pretty common exercise available in most gyms too
what about a non converging chest press ?
Are the neurological adaptations that you get from dumbell chest press similar to that of bench press or will I need to adapt to bench press for a bit before going for a strength test?
I would’ve included some dips as well
I don't know about you, but when I don't do any exercise for a long time, for example dumbell flies, it hits me well...
Please do one for back TNF
Thank you! Definitely was looking for such a video!
Can you make a video on how to train during Ramadan!
Thanks again
5:36 When you said plate loaded, did you mean selectorised? Plate loaded uses... plates lol
Read the caption
i dont think that pic of pannata machine inserted is the same smith machine Joel was talking about though.
Caption
What abt cable bench press, in my opinion my favorite chest exercise of all time u can combine both the pressing and the flying motion in an exercise like this
Incline bench between cables and do incline cable flies blew up mij chest. I wonder why no one talks about it. Its insane!
what about incline smith mahine press and flat cable press
babe wake up, TNF just posted!
I love cable work, do you do no cable work in your chest days?
what about cables?
Cable presses? As an older lifter cable presses with a bench at 90 in a dual stack has been awesome. Not saying it’s an A or S but its easy on bad shoulders
Hey Joel can u make a video about Inter repetition rest , like for example when we rest at top of a hack squat
thoughts on cable flies? seems more stable and consistent tension, plus more customizable to the person
was waiting for weighted calisthenics like dips and pushup variations (ring, decline, deficit, etc)
Smith just goated for me, hammer feels awk
Damn I’m literally hitting chest in 30 minutes
If I can only go to the gym twice a week,how should my training program be for it to be effective?
And dips ?
Thank you sir for the explanation
No cable flies/cable press on this list?
My only question: Would you say someone who gets super strong on a chest fly machine will get bigger pecs than someone who does different B tier presses? I think Chest Fly is S tier for its purpose of isolating the chest but is it really as good as presses for overall chest?
Quick irrelevant question, if on the nutrition values of my packet of chicken it says ‘oven baked’ under Typicsl values. Should I weigh my chicken after it’s cooked?
What about cable flies and press
Need this for back
Yeah great and all but where’s the glute spread??
You forget cable fly
I would agree with your most of your ranking but for different reasons. You ranked machines that often don't give as much length on the chest higher than free weights that do give that MAXIMUM length for bad reasons. Like, sure there's less resistance on a flat dumbbell fly near the top, but that's perfectly fine, because that's the least important trainable range of the chest with likely only regional hypertrophy benefit. Regional hypertrophy is icing on the cake, not the cake. Many of these machines don't allow for as much stretch. Like, flat press, fly, and dumbbell pullovers I would say are A, assuming your neurologically adapted to the exercise or else MPS will be more for recovery than any growth, because everyone can get maximum stretch from them, and you can simply switch to a neutral grip at the bottom if the dumbbells are that big or just use less weight by getting more out of less weight, like pausing at longer at the stretched position and slower eccentrics. I think you mentioned some of the drawbacks of them without the unique advantages. Lastly, the only reason why these free weights are not S is simply due to the greater fatigue. The greater the stability demand, the greater the fatigue on the supporting tissue and muscle.
A lot of what you said is simply untrue. The vast majority of proper machines can be adjusted to get as much length as you will ever need. This overemphasis on stretch is causing people to go past ranges where they can produce significant force, and the machines can typically go to the full length necessary 🤝
@@RealTNF wait, hold on, I actually want to learn. What did I say that was wrong and why? The chest press machine thing was kind of a personal notice of mine, especially since my frame is a bit smaller genetically, so it's harder to find machines that suit me, but much of the rest was stuff I've heard several times from PhDs in field.
If i sleep for 6-7 hours and then wake up, lay in bed for another 2 with my eyes closed. Is that comparable to 8-9 hours of sleep?
should i use leg drive for bench or is that just adding more weight than i need
What about shoulder press arch adjusting exercise (technically not an exercise BUT you showed it before in the past if you know?)
Please do one for back 🙏
What do you think of the cable press?
Does arching a lot can cause pain in the back?
What do you think about the smith variations, flat and incline? Love your content!
Ok so when is back legs shoulders and arms coming out hehe 😅 ?
Missed the cable flies and dips 😢
Used hammer strength incline and my rib went out lmao
Probably don't agree with a good portion of the ranking but really enjoyed how non-dogmatic and open minded this video is and how you approach exercises with the acknowledgement that there is a range of quality depending on the context. The video goes on the S tier.
Do this for all big muscle groups
Great vid! Would love to see one for triceps:)
Do i have to track my workouts if i just go to failure on pretty much everything anyways?
Homie forgot cable flies
Not sure if you've covered this before, but does the chest need to be worked in the shortened position? for example, would you be fine doing a non-converging flat press, a non- converging incline press, and dips as your chest workout?
I thought it was so funny you ranking the flat dumbbell press at D tier while that guy was right next to you doing the same exercise 😂
I consider the dumbbell crucifix to be the best of all.
do you prefer incline on an angled or straight smith
Where would you rank cable presses/flies? I know they’re a little less stable than machines but also can fit people’s anatomies better so wondering what the trade off for you is like
hey tnf, where would you rank non converging, seated, machine flat press?
How important convergence?
Just the cherry on top, not very important
Hey TNF. Do you think it's important, as a full-on beginner, to train stabilizer muscles doing Bench Press/Incline Bench is important or is that misunderstood?
Make this series 🙏
Forreal I need a tricep tier list
Do you always grip the handles standing on those vertical press machines? Looks like you slide down into the press instead of being seated first
I never seem to progressive overload with the incline machine, I hav eno idea why
guys I think his rankings might surprise you
I usually do my flies with cables because chest fly machines put my shoulders into a painful position for whatever reason. But holy shit that fly machine is insane, I bet it feels amazing
Hammer presses snap my shit up, dumbbells are my bread and butter.
What’s your opinion on cable pressing? i usually use a non-hammer incline machine and flat db at my gym but in my home gym I like doing horizontal cable presses with a bench upright. I feel a lot of tension and i feel that the ability to supinate during the eccentrics and pronate as my elbows converge allows me to feel it more. Am i using bro science or is this logical.
Can you do this for other muscles as well
what about incline fly machine ? panatta has one of it