Is Calvinism the Gospel? Interview with Phil Bair | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Dr. Flowers joins Phil Bair on his broadcast "The Cross to Bair" to talk about whether Calvinism teaches another Gospel. JOIN US!
Two years ago I was a 7 point Calvinist and had been one for 20 years. Last year I realized Limited Atonement was false. Since that time I have come to believe Calvinism is false. There are so many errors in it that I never saw.
An amazing testimony. Let alone the fact that you were a seven pointer. It seems the majority of calvinist are beyond any chance of changing their position. I encourage you to to study the doctrine of eternal rewards. Blessings.
Great.....and the reason we do believe there's hope not only for calvinists, but for the lost in general is we believe people have freedom to change their mind. You're a good example of libertarian free will, wow that's cool. You have a better understanding than most. ☝️✌️
Why would God decree you to come out of what he decreed you to go into in the first place? It's schizophrenic to say the least. Thanks for sharing, brother.
God begs the children of Israel to repent, he sends them prophets, delivers them from enemies, punishes them and restores them. This is not deterministic, this is relational. He seeks a willing heart. To do justly and to love mercy and humility
There is no gospel in Calvanism and there is no grace in Calvanism.
WHEN I LISTEN TO THIS MAN..HE'S REALLY HARD TO FOLLOW... IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE ROBOTS.. NOW WHY I KNOW WHY I COULD NOT LISTEN TOO MY BROTHER IN-LAW....THIS CAN GET SCREWED...
Calvinism's two wills of God is not a rebuttal of "the deity of deception", but a confirmation of it.
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Calvin has God playing checkers with himself and using men on both sides of the board for his own amusement.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT it's a mental illness is what it is
Simple arguments. True arguments. Well done.
Here’s an argument against Calvinism, why would God give believers a love and compassion for everyone, an attribute He does not have according His own self.
kgar5String is right we must go off of what is said in scripture, that God loves the whole world, that he died for the sins of the world, that he does not desire the death of the wicked, that he had mercy on everyone.
That God saves everyone who wants to be saved, EVERYONE.
So we must according to scripture reject Calvinism as unscriptural, the other option is to accept Calvinism and reject scripture.
Jesus showed love to judas despite him being a devil. So what are you talking about? He shows love to even the wicked. Notice they are still allowed to live despite the fact that they will not glorify Him.
@@kgar5Stringcorrect…but keep reading in Romans and you'll fine God tells you who He freely chooses to have mercy on…. For God has shut up ALL in disobedience so that He may show mercy to ALL. 11:32. That's ALL and ALL MEANS ALL.
Oh and if you think this means “universlism” turn the page back and you'll find “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;” so He tells you what you have todo to appropriate His mercy which He has sovereignly chosen to show to ALL.
@@kgar5String
Psalm 86:5 KJV - For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto *all them that call upon thee.*
Jeremiah 33:3 KJV - *Call unto me, and I will answer thee,* and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, *all ye that labour and are heavy laden,* and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
@@malvokaquila6768 🎯"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Calvinism is a different Gospel not by affirmation but by implication: 44:09
Is Calvinism truly the same gospel? It seems to me you're saved through election in Calvinism not through faith.
The "God did, in eternity past" proclamation goes to great lengths to say that foretold faith has nothing to do with God's choice. In fact, in Calvinism, for God to allow His choice to be affected by the belief or not of a mere human is weak and a denial of sovereignty. So the gospel can't get a break; it's basically going through the motions to believe. It makes the gospel powerless, not the power of God unto salvation for all who believe.
@kgar5String my comment specifically says through faith. I never said we were saved by faith. In Calvinism it's through the U not through faith.
@kgar5String But "through" means something. It is t just glue that sticks faith on someway, but without any relationship to grace and to salvation. Through implies that it would not happen without faith, although the substance of it is not from man, but God. Faith is not just an also-ran, which gets added on for some imexplicable reason. "Through" means it is the way that grace works. Grace isn't just done to you, therefore, a done deal. Faith is how grace works in salvation, and since this is the word of God, we can be sure that God is not offended by it, and does not feel robbed of any glory. This is why the Bible makes so much of faith. It isn't just empty verbiage to sound somehow impressive. Look at the verses about the Phillippian jailer. "What must I do to be saved?"
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved . . .". That is literally a genuine prescription for salvation, and notice that the Bible doesn't upbraid the apostle and disciple for answering that, or complain that there's nothing mankind can do to be saved. Apparently, there is.
The stuff, content, of salvation is not "of" man. That does not mean that mankind is not given the credit or blame for choosing to believe or reject belief. We are given credit for that, because we are responsible for that.
@kgar5String But if God is convicting us to believe, that us not us being left on our own without God. God is with us, both to will and to do our salvation. It sounds humble and pious to say that we have nothing to do with it, but God believes that we han very something to do with it. We choose the good, and God is pleased. When we choose evil God is angry and grieved. Is He lying , or is He genuinely unhappy with sin? In which case, it would be Augustine and Calvin, who are lying. And God cannot lie.
@kgar5String A Calvinist telling me that God either forces His gift on people, or it isn't a gift, just doesn't happen to be the Bible, and I shouldn't knuckle under to the pressure to think it is. That would be foolish. If God forces His gift on those He loves, and the only reason anyone would not come to Him is that God didn't want him or draw him in the first place, why does Jesus say, in John 3, that "the condemnation" is that "light has come into the world" (God brought light, in the way of the word of God, and in seding Jesus to bear our sin) "and MEN PREFERED DARKNESS" (= "the condemnation") to light, "because their deeds were evil". Everyone has evil deeds, and we all have the tendency to hide from God, like Adam did. Jesus knows that: "for all have sinned", right? Yet some who do that , eventually "do truth", and they want God to _"clearly" see_ that "their deeds are wrought in God". Those people are not boasting about any good deeds, are they? The "deeds" in question, pretty much have to be that they want God to see that they are responding to His convicting them of sin, but also that He is a savior of sinners: that they are putting their faith in Him. They are like the publication vs the Pharisee: "God be merciful to me, a sinner". There's nothing self-righteous about that. At least, Jesus doesn't think so. Notice that He gives them credit, not for being righteous, but for responding to the light that has come into the world, when God gives it. And mankind gets credit from God for preferring darkness over light because our deeds are evil. Why do Calvinists even have a problem with this?.
I really respect the ministries of these two men, especially Leighton, and I appreciate all the work he does daily to expose the falsehoods of Calvinism, but it is so disappointing to see Christians apologize for Calvinism constantly whenever the false gospel of Calvinism is raised. It really injures their witness to accept a false gospel as being either the same as the true gospel, or of no importance in being saved. And that horrific horrific attempt at revising anathema in Paul's warning to the Galatians is unbelievable. Paul meant exactly what he wrote: that those who preach a false gospel are under God's curse. Where I find common agreement with some Calvinists is that we do not share the same gospel and the gospel is a primary importance. These two men seem ambivalent about the first proposition, but certainly deny the second.
"Brethren, but with a false gospel" is a contradiction no Christian should ever accept.
Amen. I agree.
The “ gatekeepers” of calvinism reformed thought need to be identified and exposed.
Well said!
Amen! Calvinism, like Islam and Mormonism, only falsely claims to worship the same "God" as actual Christians do. A much more accurate name for the Calvinist "god" would be "Zeucifer", as it is a combination of aspects of Zeus and Lucifer, thinly disguised in unbiblical redefinitions of biblical words...
@@kgar5String Still out of tune and now your strings need changed bro!
Sola de your choice.
How do determinists explain Romans 1:20? If all our actions were predetermined, then it would be more than a mere excuse. It would be an excellent reason.
They can’t explain it they just say things like “God holds you responsible for all the evil and sin that He willed and predetermined you to do.” They think this allows them to escape the contradiction but all it does is charge God with being unjust as well as the author of ALL evil, sin, and deception.
The horribly disgusting “Bad News of the Calvinist Gospel”, according to Reformed Theology, is that the sovereign Calvinist potter God discriminates against, passes over and predestines the nonchosen non-elect goat people to barbecue in Hell his own good Glory and Pleasure; the “Good News of the Gospel” according to the Bible and Provisionism is that Creator GOD YHVH loves everybody on the day they are born, does not will or desire for any to be lost, so HE makes provision for them to be Saved through participation in a “Conditional Covenant”.
@@kgar5String - "The Bad news is with your gospel, it is in the hands of man ..."
What is this 'it' you speak of?
@@kgar5String --- Thanks for proving your sovereign Calvinist potter God is an *unprincipled, unethical, impersonal, whimsical, hateful, discriminatory, unjust, merciless, selfish, sadistic, monster of mindless robots who barbecues "Totally Depraved", invincibly ignorant, innocent people* in Hell for no known plausible reason, other than the sovereign Calvinist potter Gods own good selfish glory and his own good sadistic pleasure!!!!!*
@@kgar5String --- lol! There are only a couple-a-dozen contradictions in your little diatribes! You'll have to try harder.
Calvinism bears false witness against God!
@@kgar5StringThe serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field. Calvinism bears false witness against God!
I have no problem with God telling Abraham in Gen 22, "“Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God. You have not withheld from me even your son, your only son.” I can accept it just as written. In the text it seems God has tested Abraham to find out what he wanted to know. Others can say it's mysterious how God would 'know' and still say this. Perhaps he was wanting Abraham to "discover' about himself what God already knew. But this would be a mystery which does not bring into question the character and nature of God or his genuine love or all his creation.
On the other hand, the 'mystery' of Calvinism goes to the very heart of God's character and drives a stake in it. Ultimately, causing believers to doubt if God even loves them personally. THAT, is demonic. It is no less than the lie which the Serpent told Eve in the Garden. I am so puzzled why believers would be convinced to willingly embrace a doctrine which literally undermines God's love.... for themselves.🤷🏻♂🤷🏻♂
I am convinced Satan LOVES HIM SOME CALVINISM. Who else would want to plant the seed of doubt in the heart of a believer that God cannot be trusted?
@@kgar5Stringnot only do you misinterpret the scriptures but you misinterpret what is being articulated about Gods grace, faith, mercy, predestination, Gods foreknowledge, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Nobody is claiming they are born again by their own efforts. We are saved by grace through Faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God draws all to Himself! Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw ALL men unto Himself. God is not deceptive, manipulative, or a liar. The anointing you have received will teach you all things, IF that anointing is real and not COUNTERFEIT! I pray you have ears to hear🙏
Im sorry but I cannot call “Christian” a theology that views God in such a low way that blames Him for all the evil in the world and makes Him out to be a deceiver; the Bible says that the devil is the father of lies, it is blasphemous and to be a Christian is to be a follower of Christ and their doctrines of disgrace are completely contrary to Christ’s teachings and is only a stumbling block to the Gospel.
We need to start calling a duck, a duck. Calvinism is just another sect just like Morninism or Jehova’s Witness.
So true... why do they bend over backwards to call them christian?
Absolutely it drives me crazy to lift up some Calvinist preachers as gifted preachers yet they believe in Calvinism.
Calvinism is NOT good news. What a monster it makes God out to be. Neither does it offer assurance of salvation. It is bad no matter which way you spin it.
@@kgar5String The answer to your question is no. What i wrote is that ...."calvinism makes God out to be a monster". I fully accept and believe all of the bible. I do not believe that God causes born-again believers to walk in His ways. I dont see that in the scriptures. I see many passages that say that believers " SHOULD ". Also i don't believe that for an unregenerated person , that making any kind decision is what brings everlasting life. I don't see that in the scriptures. What i see in the scriptures is that " believing " in Jesus is what brings everlasting life. Making a decision and believing are not the same.
@@kgar5Stringit's the twisting of scripture that calvinistic beliefs do that makes God out to be a monster. TBH the god of the calvinist sounds more like the devil🤷♀️
Again Calvinism bears false witness against God!!! Bottom line!!!
I'm always puzzled that, after becoming convinced of TULIP , believers can become so enthusiastic about embracing a theology which cannot avoid bringing into question the very nature of our Heavenly Father. Ultimately, it claims God decreed Jeffry Dahmer's appetite and each time he satisfied it... and somehow it's 'good' and the purpose is to bring him more glory. And, their only defense is to claim it's just a 'mystery'.
The cannot even know if God loves them for certain.
Who would want men to doubt God's love for them, personally??? (SNL's Church Lady had the answer)
21:20 I think it's true to say a Calvinist would not say God deceives his own "children" because they're not 'thinking it through'.... BUT, the premise of Evanescent Grace is God fundamentally deceiving 'reprobates' into thinking and living 'as if' they're his 'children' only to abandon them to Hell later. Which was already his plan from eternity past. The problem is that 'if' God has decreed all professions of faith AND all apostasy as well they can have no confidence their current profession is genuine and will last.
And they are worshiping, and encouraging others,(mostly believers), to worship a God who cannot be trusted according to their 'gracious' doctrine.
Thinking Calvinists cannot trust the faith they have any more than the God they claim gave it to them.
If I believed that I'd need to overdose on Relaxium or Sominex every night after saying my prayers.🤔
I thought of that too. When they were talking here about how Calvinists don’t AFFIRM God’s deceptions, but they IMPLY them I thought: “what about evanescent grace?” Evanescent grace is an affirmative doctrine that God deceives people. But I’m only an hour into this long video, maybe evanescent grace will come up later.
It frustrates me that Calvinists won't own the contradiction in thier theology and just label it as a tension, mystery or paradox instead. When i point it out im told that i am being philosophical and using human rationality and not trusting what the Bible says.
@@kgar5String
No, but he sure did butcher those texts.
It's called gaslighting. Calvinists are skilled liars. Is it any surprise?
Great conversation and dialogue. Dude looks like Anton LaVey. Very happy not of same constitution. 👍
Calvinism's destroys the righteousness of God, Exhaustive Devine Determinism: 17:30
Good news everyone! God doesn’t hate ALL of you!
Became Catholic thanks to this channel. Now I go to Society St Pius X, to the Traditional Latin Mass.
This is so confusing to me. When asked if they believe Calvinism is a different Gospel, they say "no," yet at around the 1:34:00-ish minute mark, Dr. Flowers says, "Calvinism distorts the truth of the Gospel." How is that NOT another Gospel then?
"It distorts the truth of the Gospel." It, meaning something other than what it's being compared to (in this case, Calvinism), is distorting what it's being compared to (in this case, the Gospel). So, it follows that since it's external to what it's being compared to, it is not the same thing as what it's being compared to; it's different. According to that, it IS a different Gospel.
Why are these two so adamant against calling it out for what it is? And, I'm sorry, but Phil's explanation of Galatians 1:8 near the beginning when he was saying he didn't believe Calvinism was another Gospel was just plain ridiculous. Paul never said "he wished they would be accursed", he lumped himself into it! He said, "if WE or anyone else preach any other gospel to you other than what we have preached, let him be accursed!" Did Paul preach divine determinism? Absolutely not!!! We have many records of apostolic tradition and teachings in the Ante-Nicene fathers--ALL of which were against that belief.
Yes, Calvinism is a different Gospel. One could even argue that since it wasn't preached by anyone other than the Gnostics for the first 5 centuries of the Church, until a prior Gnostic started teaching it, mind you, than it is without a doubt another Gospel!
I think they are a bit confused themselves (at that point anyway), and are using the term "Gospel' as a shorthand substitute for a confession of sins and profession of Faith in Christ. Calvinists use the same words from the Book as they do for that . . (
But of course the "good news" (Gospel) is that we can be saved at all ; )
@@kgar5String And what exactly was that?
It is among the worst false Gospels! Ranking right up there with Jehovah Witnesses.
My thoughts are it could come across as you ultimately declaring they are not saved. As a whole, I wouldn't make claims about every single one. But, personally, I would say "I wholeheartedly believe you have been deceived. You have been fed lies."
@@knxcholx Would you say Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons are "deceived" and "fed lies"? If so, do you believe they are saved?
I really like what Phil is saying but I have a hard time getting past the fact that he looks so much like Anton LeVay. lol. But seriously, Phil’s logic is awesome and truly shows the illogical teachings of Calvinism.
Yeah, I'm old enough to notice that too.
with moon , stars and galactic nuance in the beginning of Leigthon's video honestly the first thing came up to my mind is Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon
Catholics have many things in common with Christians too.
That doesn't mean they're saved in that faith.
If God is not righteous then we lose the attornment: 45:19
@@kgar5String Have you checked your brain at the door? I'm not trying to be mean but next you'll ask how do you know what good is?
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
The Word of God is pure and Righteous. Its only when men in their so called wisdom twist the Word to meet their Doctrines, then we end up with another Gospel, or Doctrines of men. Jesus along with the inspired Word plainly condemns such. Men thinking they are wiser than God.
It's good old fashioned gnosticism.
So, basically, Calvin could not admit he was wrong.
The longer I look at this subject, it's a very crafty way to impune God's character, but why would believers want to do that? They wouldn't but because they believe in determinism (john piper version), everything has been decreed by God, and because of this, the calvinist isn't to blame or be responsible for their sinful choices. Then you hear about How God's grace is sufficient. This maligns his grace for us, it was never designed to make you immune to your free choice sin, it's designed to protect you from the outcomes of your unknown offenses or sins. When Leighton said, imagine the worst thought or action you've ever done or thought and then say it out loud, God did that...it's NUTS!!! HE IS HOLY AND GOOD, RIGHTEOUS!!
This was just awesome!
The question in my mind, in Calvinism, if God determines evil what is the role of the Devil? Who needs a devil if God determines all things. Personally, I believe in the fall of Satan and his work in the world as well as the weakness of our flesh. Sin comes from the world, the flesh and the devil. Goodness comes from God. God is not both good and bad.
Logic dictates, Satan is God's "scapegoat" & "fallguy" -- planted there to take blame for God's actions.
I've never met a Calvinist who didn't confess to have put their trust in Christ, who doesn't identify Him as God in flesh, who doesn't confess that He died for their sins, and rose on the third day and who hasn't led a changed life because of their faith. It's enough to know the above facts about the gospel to trust in Christ for your salvation and have a relationship with Him despite being mistaken about how He achieved your salvation. The logical conclusions of Calvinism lead to sin, not to condemnation. We ought to show mercy as our Father shows mercy to us.
Again, shared biblical terminology doesn't save anyone because then Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons would also be saved.
@@ACTSVERSE Neither of those two cults affirm Christ is God in flesh.
I agree a lot with what you wrote but I find it really difficult to understand how a Calvinist can say they have a relationship with God and that they have received mercy but in the same breath seem totally fine that the majority of the human race is destined for destruction.
@@plumber1874 while I agree that Calvinism can produce this kind of sentiment if a person is consistent with it, there are many Calvinists who are "blessedly inconsistent." I'd also say that it's possible, and certainly has happened, for non-Calvinists to be cold hearted toward the lost. Many Calvinists didn't start out as Calvinists. Did they lose their salvation because they bought into a erroneous theology? And what about new believers? Are they not saved until they reach the same level of understanding as our friend ACTSVERSE above? Whatever we believe about this subject needs to be reconciled with the whole of scripture and not just with warnings about false gospels.
12 If you say, “See, we did not know this,” Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts? And does He not know it who keeps your soul? And will He not render to man according to his work? (Prov 24:12)
They bring and accept a different gospel from which the Holy Spirit led disciples preached. To fundamentally mistake Gods character to one that more resembles Satan himself makes me question if they really know God. In the words of Paul
Galatians 1:8
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
1:23:21The quasi-Calvinist, foreknowledge/foresight opposed to God's decree is just a dodge. It's inconsistent with the unavoidable implications of both TULIP and the fundamental premise WCF. Phil Bair is making that point and allowing no 'quarter' in doing so. 🏆 At least John Piper is consistent in his claim that "God knows the future because he performs it"... When I saw his book "Don't Waste Your Life" ... I laughed out lout in the bookstore!!! If he's right, how could you?
If John calvin can wrestle with the contradictions of his theology and come to the conclusion that he simply does not know how it can be true, it just is, even though his mind can't make sense of it. Then he's admitting defeat. He's admitting that he doesn't know or understand. Therefore, how on earth can he be trusted? How can anyone trust his conclusions when he ultimately says he doesn't know?
"Two wills" only makes sense if mankind has free will.
MANKIND DOES HAVE FREE WILL. NOT EVEN A THINKER..
I'm not saying Phil Blair is wrong about Calvinists. However he makes the statement that they have put their faith in Christ, when they teach the opposite, that Christ has put his faith or imparted it to them making them alive. If they don't believe that a response to the Gospel, in favor of it, to be saved is required.... Well they have not made that response in favor of it. Galatians 1:8-9. Well the true Gospel sets us free from every curse. Doesn't it?
When things happen in my life negatively, I sometimes think to myself, "If Calvinism were true, God is wanting this negative thing to happen to me and gets glory out of it..." Well since I believe God isn't a Calvinist, and something bad happens to me, I blame myself and don't find fault with God. I did this to me in some way.
Maybe you did do it to yourself or maybe because you live in a fallen world stuff happens like a drunk driver hitting you we suffer the consequences of other people's sin so it's not necessarily your fault when bad things happen...
@@kgar5StringJust resign yourself to the fact that God has sovereignly decreeed that we have limited free will.
@@kgar5Stringthis is known as "gaslighting," and what you have done is plainly dishonest.
When I was a Pentecostal, the mode of operation was: Good happens, God be praised, Bad happens, blame the devil. Under Calvinism, God gets the credit and blame, even for what seems to be our own doing. I would encourage a fuller view. I believe God sometimes directly causes and /or allows things to happen, I believe that we live in a fallen world and people make choices that can affect us, I believe that we can make choices that affect ourselves and others. It's natural to look for someone or somewhere to place blame or credit. My prayer for you is that you won't unnecessarily blame yourself for things beyond your control, your choices. Even then, we can make what we think is a good choice based on the latest information, even aligning with biblical principles, and things may not turn out like we thought. Trusting God, giving thanks in everything, following his word, praying for wisdom, this is the best any of us can do. Blessings to you!
@@kgar5String eisegeting Scripture is.
So we can preach a different gospel and it's all okay? Do we make this carve out for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and their false gospels? I extend grace to the Calvinists because it seems most of them came to Christ before they came to Calvinism, so they are saved but in error. But the gospel that is found in Calvinism proper is by definition a false gospel because there is no power in it; salvation does not come through the gospel or Christ, it comes through God's eternal decree of individual election unto salvation. On Calvinism the gospel and even Christ himself are just "means:, the mechanisms through which God's eternal decree is acted out.
I also don't see how we can get around Paul's words in Galatians 1:8-9. This doesn't seem to me in any translation of the Bible to be Paul "wishing" those who preach a different gospel to be accursed, he is pronouncing a curse TWICE on anyone who preaches a different gospel. We don't get to reinterpret this because we don't want to say that a false gospel is to be accursed-anathema!
@@kgar5String first and foremost there what Ezekiel wrote is not the gospel, it is a promise to the nation of Israel. We can make an application of it in the church. If you have to go to Ezekiel to find "the gospel", you need to sharpen your Bible reading skills. The gospel is not about salvation under the New Covenant and to assert that dimisses clear gospel presentations in the NT letters so as to create some idea of God effectually saving some preselected group.
In Acts 16:31 in asnwer to the query of the Philippian jailer of what he had to do to be saved, Paul and Silas said "...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." In other words the jailer had to have faith. John in his Revelation says in verse 17 says "And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." Whoever desires may freely come and have eternal life, not some preselected few.
I submit that if you have a gospel that is different from what Jesus says in John 3:15-17, that adds any idea of anything other than placing faith in the finished work of Christ to the "process" (for lack of a better word) of salvation has a false gospel. The gospel is all about Christ and what He did for mankind, but we all have faith and we all must decide where to place that faith.
And if you believe that a system that says -in direct contradition to the Bible-that an individual is picked for salvation before creation, with no need to place faith in Christ for salvation has the true gospel, you might need to check your beleifs against the plain words of Scripture. Because there is NOTHING in the text that says what Calvinists claim it does. The Bible does not teach a Cavinist sotierology and I reject categorically any assertion that it does.
If God can affirm two logicaly impossible contradictions, then any other logical contradiction can be reconciled . That would mean that the contradiction of both Calvinists and non Calvinistic belief can be reconciled making both camps right 😅
Charles Spurgeon said that Armenians where not saved.
When he got to heaven he began apologizing to them. Recently, Dr. R.C Sproul met Jesus who leaned over and asked,
"So, R. C., what's this I hear about you telling people I didn't die for everyone?"
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT
They have to wait till judgment day.
The state of the dead, according to the word of God.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof *thou shalt surely die*
{Genesis 2:17}
Man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their *sleep*
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, *until thy wrath be past* that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
👉till my change come.
...
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
{Job 14:10, 12-14 & 21}
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in *my flesh* shall I see God.
{Job 19:26}
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, *nor knowledge nor wisdom* in the grave, whither thou goest.
{The Preacher 9:10}
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; *in that very day his thoughts perish*
{Psalm 146:3-4}
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he *sleep* he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
{John 11:12-14}
...
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection
👉at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet *shall* he live:"
{John 11:24-25}
But go thou thy way till the end be: for *thou shalt rest* and stand in thy lot *at the end of the days*
{Daniel 12:13}
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him *should not perish* but have everlasting life.
{John 3:16}
And *the serpent said* unto the woman, *Ye shall not surely die*
{Genesis 3:4}
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down *in the midst of the stones of fire*
{Ezekiel 28:14}
^
(satan always turns the tables on God, for he is the father of lies.)
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. *Who* among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
*He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil*
{Isaiah 33:14-15}
If anyone errors in their understanding of this doctrine of the dead, then they will in no way be led to the understanding of the truth, for it will be a stumblingblock unto the decernment of spiritual things, including soilterology and eschatology.
@@larrybedouin2921
Doctrines of Devils
1 Tim 4:1
@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi
Yes, that does summarize Calvinism. After all Calvin is a murderer of God's saint.
Steve Lawson Said On a video, that if you weren't a Calvinists,you didn't know the Bible. How arrogant! It's called theological pride
Calvinists arguments for God being a deceiver: 57:22
Calvinists believe, without any biblical justification whatsoever, that the "elect" were chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world. There is no verse in the Bible that says this. Certainly not Ephesians 1:4. Read it carefully. That is salvation that is outside of Christ. We are saved the moment we have faith in Christ, putting us "in Christ". Calvinism is another Gospel. I'll let God be the judge if Calvinists are saved or not.
Not gonna lie hated the intro
It was awful. Kitsch. My gosh, how can Christians have such poor taste?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 KJV
Calvinists believe that their Calvinist god chose them for salvation UNCONDITIONALLY before the foundation of the world. That means that their ELECTION has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Just a roll of the dice by the Calvinist god, some go to Heaven, and some go to Hell for no reason whatsoever. If you are not saved by Jesus Christ, then technically, that isn't even Christianity. Jesus is THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. Not UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION.
Unwittingly the calvinist presents Yahweh to have the same character as Allah...and worst Satan. Who can truly have security and confidence in such a God? A God who determines everything, yet does a bate and switch on people. Maybe he's leading you into all truth...maybe he won't. The whole dichotomy of God and Satan in the bible, is that Satan is the father of all lies, while God is Truth. Yahweh declares that he is holy. Which means he is neither like man nor any other being in existence, which falsness resides in. Yeshua said he is the way, the truth, and the life...undermine one part of that, and he is just another demon.
The proposition that we worship God apart from him being holy, just, good, and worthy of praise based on truth, but only on him being all powerful is disturbing. The insistence that we must accept it as so as to accept a system of thinking is sickening.
Calvinism is not The Gospel found in Scriptures. Its another Gospel!
Calvinism's deity of deception Leightons comments: 20:14
You can make the argument that Calvinists are Universalists, if God decides who to save. God only saves sinners, and all are sinners, so then all are saved. Acts 10:43 say's that only those who believe in the name of Jesus as the prophets testify, have their sins forgiven.
Why can I not download this video?
Definitely not the Gospel. It blinds people to the truth of God's character. A lot of what some Calvinists believe makes God sound worse than the devil.
11. THESS 2/10_12.. GOD SENDS STRONG DELUSION WHO CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST...
Calvinists affirm the trinity, Catholics affirm the trinity. All Calvinists should just become Catholic.
Calvinism is “reformed” Roman Catholicism so………
So can the two wills of God be likened to God having two fingers crossed behind his back when he says he loves me?
Dr. Evil looks nice when he's petting a cat. Many supervillans do.
Leighton; "... So to say- I want this person to be saved when you also desire by Sovereign decree, by Will, that's another will of God, for that not to happen, we would call that a lie. ... ... How do they [Calvinists] deal with it? ... Some of them have the two wills of God approach ... and some of them ... the way they'll deal with it, because they see this quandary, they see this schizophrenic view ... is to say He wants some of every kind to be saved. He wants all sorts of people. People of all kinds..."
Diversity Equity and Inclusion ... One wonders if there's a connection. if the DEI approach to supposed "social justice" might have been drawn from that solution to this quandary the 'Doctrines of Grace' produced . . ?? And hence the almost religious (and schizophrenic) quality it assumes . . in replacing an equal oppertunity "merit based" solution to the "sins" of society . .
And if they just make it happen, it must have been decreed by God, and must be good, even if it seems anything but to us who are born incapable of being saved, unless we're of the woke chosen ones . .
Love Flowers, but sometimes I wish he’d let his guests talk more 😳😂
2.14 Do we have the authority to say if you have not accepted the gospel and put your trust in Christ that you are headed to hell? They can change their mind, in the end only GOD knows and can actually condemn someone but absolutely Paul could tell them that teaching lies and deceiving people will put you on the wide road if you do not change your mind and trust in Christ and the cross. Calvinists believe they are selected not by the blood of the cross but by selection. They deny the power of the cross and they malign Gods character. 🤷♀️
Agree completely.
If a given action is known with certainty to God ahead of time then you have no freedom to do otherwise, falsifying his knowledge. This is a matter of definitions. Therefore exhaustive foreknowledge is incompatible with free will.
I believe in free will, however I think your takeaway is only 1 possible takeaway.
I think that with absolute foreknowledge, free will is still possible. Only if, God's exhaustive foreknowledge contains in and of itself the free choices of the creatures. It's only incompatible if God is the cause of all of the actions by the creatures. IF God Is the one causing every action.
@@filmscorelife4225That’s not rational because then everything eternally exists with God in the form of His knowledge. Being made physical is not a requirement of existing therefore if God knows that something will come into creation then it exists. Also “absolute foreknowledge” is contrary to scripture so I don’t know why anyone believes that in the first place.
@JohnK557 God knowing who and what He will create doesn't make them physically eternally existing. Either way it's within God...not apart from God.
@@filmscorelife4225With all due respect how did you read what I wrote and reply with that? I specifically differentiated between physical existence and existing in the form of Gods knowledge. Your position is stuck arguing that something has to be physical to be said to exist and that Gods knowledge doesn’t establish existence. Everyone inherently knows that things exist that aren’t physical. You would have to deny spirit and soul. If Gods knowledge of what will exist in an “eternal future” doesn’t establish existence then what does? In your view nothing in eternity will ever be any different than how God already eternally knows that it is. So EVERYTHING is eternally established and has no ability to change. Closed theism is irrational and contradictory to Gods Word and revealed reality.
@JohnK557 I replied that way because I'm saying that physical existence(created in a point in time) makes something exist. You simply saying that a thought means existence is just a statement. I'm refuting that. God is the only being outside of space and time, therefore His thoughts are also outside of space and time. Things created however are not. Everything that has been created existed at the moment He made it.
Do you think the average Calvinist affirms exhaustive divine determinism? It seems an extreme view that only the few consistent Calvinists would affirm.
I don’t think most Calvinists affirm it; however, they must be inconsistent Calvinists to NOT affirm it. Taking their doctrine all the way down the line will lead to determinism.
@@briannalipham4402 Agreed. The average Calvinist might believe God determines a person's salvation, but leaves lesser choices up to us. Only those steeped in Calvinistic doctrine are going to buy God determining every thought, word, and deed, including sins. That's too much to swallow for most people.
@@darrennelson5855then they aren’t t really Calvinists.
I wouldn’t go that far. They self-identify as Calvinists and adhere to all the points of TULIP. Many, if not most, Calvinists, in my experience, are unaware that determinism is part of Calvinism.
Consistency would demand it! Ignorant of the full definition of Calvinism.
calvinism is a different gospel. it's a philosophy masquerading as a theology.
Then there is the fact of what Paul said in Galatians.....any other Gospel IS accursed. I dont think it's a matter of sin or ignorance. It's simply not the Gospel of Grace.
Here's why.....Calvinists deny and totally omit the very heart of the Gospel that the Lord WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND. That Romans 6 -8 , THEY OMIT , teaches us that our New life comes our of our DEATH WITH CHRIST , our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. They believe God waved His magic want and regenerated His lucky lotto winners apart from the Cross. The second death .....WE FACE THAT SECOND DEATH NOW WITH CHRIST. If not then you will face it later. Our identification wit Jesus in death is followed by our resurrected life NOW in Him. This us true salvation. And this omitting of the Cross is what all false Gospels have put their faith in....
Galatians is the very heart and core belief of the Gospel of Grace. Please read it carefully to know exactly WHAT the problem was. The very core of Gslatians is Galatians 2:20....I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST....NO LONGER I BUT CHRIST.
CALVINISTS have found a way to climb over some other way. It's a counterfeit spirit they believe has regenerated them APART FROM THE CROSS. our resurrected life is resurrected from our death with Christ. Romans 6-8 .
Something that has confused me since I learned what Calvinism is. If a Calvinist preacher interprets Calvinism from the scripture which is obviously false then they are false teachers. Why then would we want to listen to anything else they preach on in the Bible. Also these ex Calvinist pastors who had preached Calvinism and believed it then they decide it’s wrong and continue to be a pastor why should people trust how they now interpret the Bible .
No maybe not lost…just a Christian doing the devils work. And there are millions in hell not because they rejected God but because they rejected the god calvinist made up.
I think this also. I have no idea which Calvinists are saved but I know they are tools in Satan’s hands to destroy the evangelical church. If people really come to believe in the God of Calvinism it will cause mass deconstruction out of the church. That’s Satan’s purpose in promoting it. When children raised in that system come to understand they love more people than God does they will walk away in droves.
IT SEEMS TO ME A FEW OF THE EARLY CHURCH FATHER'S WERE CATHOLIC, SOME NEVER LEFT CATHOLICISM..EVEN KNOW I SEE SOME THING IN THE LUTHERAN CHURCH SOME OF CATHOLIC THINGS....
True, Calvinism is not a Gospel, it is a doctrine based on philosophy that is imposed on Christianity. It does have implications in misunderstanding God and the truth of the Gospel.
Certainly, it is basic logic that contradictory statements are false statements....The weather can't be both hot and cold at the same place and time....something can't be both pure and adulterated,....a statement can't be both true and false......so, it is nonsense to affirm contradictions as true.
How do we know that Jesus endorses what got written about him in ,for example, the Gospel according to Matthew? If, in reality, Jesus doesnt endorse it, or doesnt endorse all of it, it cant be scripture amd the church has just made a mistake about the N.T. canon. That's not impossible. How could anyone disprove that? Without knowing the answer to these questions first, it seems partly a waste of time discussing theology as if we could objectively determine it.
The Holy Spirit confirms these things to Christians. No Christian that I know of has ever doubted that Matthew is canonical.
What you are saying is that we can rely on nothing in the Bible. There is a Spirit loose in the Universe who wants people to believe that, and he is not benign.
@bobtaylor170 I am not saying we can rely on nothing in the Bible. I was specifoc to the
N.T. I do think that Jesus endorses the O.T. That is attested across multiple writings contained in the N.T.
Besides that, I have never met a Christian who is consistent in how they interpret the Gospel, according to Matthew. Even within the Sermon on the Mount alone, they are arbitrary with respect to which commands are hyperbole and which commends are to be taken literally. They usually claim that, 'anyone who calls his brother, 'fool' is in danger of Hell', is to be taken literally,, but then say that, 'when you pray, pray in secret', is hyperbole. So, it doesn't matter if they think it's inspired. They may as well completely ignore it because that's what they do with parts of it.
How can you say the things you say... they make God to be evil and yet you say they are saved? How is that possible? They negate the cross. If they are selected, the cross is nullified. They deny the sovereign Lord who bought them. Yes some who sit under calvinistic teaching are saved but the teaching is a completely false gospel and not Christian teaching
These guys always give the teachers of this false doctrine a pass. That’s what drives me crazy. I too believe many of the people are saved but calling the false teachers gifted or great is ridiculous.
“Galatians 5:2-4 (ESV): Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
What should one say about Calvin and Calvinism's positive influence on Western history, not even to mention Augustine? Irrespective of the fact that you ight dislike the man himself, aspects of his theology etc?
RCSPROUL described, election as this: God takes red pegs and black pegs and throws them in the air. By his good pleasure, he decides the red pegs will be saved, and the black ones will be condemned. There are many more black pegs than red. I could not listen to some of his video series, I believe he's being reprimanded right now by God. Jesus said in my house or many mansions I'm sure RCSPROUL is living in a bungalow.
WOUNDS DONE TO SIN THROUGH RIGHTEOUSNESS BRING HEALING TO THE RIGHTEOUS IN US - Isaiah (53:5) But He was pierced for our sins, bruised for our transgressions. The punishment that gives us peace fell on Him, and by His wounds we are healed.👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿 (Job 5:18) He makes the wound and He binds it up; He wounds, and His hand heals.--THE HEAVENLY FATHER THROUGH HIS SPIRIT MADE HIS SON FLESH AND BLOOD TO ALLURE AND CATCH SATAN INTO HIS SON'S BODY AND THERE HE WILL STRIKE AND KILL ALL LUSTS ALL THE POWER OF SIN, TO LET US ESCAPE AND INSTALL RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE PLACE OF SIN, HE HEAVENLY FATHER BRINGED THE WOUND TO THE ANIMAL IN US AND ALSO HEALED US BY HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, THE FATHER BEAT SATAN AT HIS HOME ON THE GROUND OF THE FLESH IN THE BODY OF THE SON, ATTRACTING SATAN TO HIS GROUND SAINT AT HOME THROUGH THE WORD INCARNATED IN THE FLESH AND HIMSELF ON THE UNLAWFUL LAND AT HOME WITH SATAN--MAKING POSSIBLE THE FIGHT BETWEEN THEM THROUGH THE SON INCARNATED, THROUGH THE SON, GOD COULD ENTER SATAN AND SATAN TO GOD, SATAN DEFEATED TO HIM AT HOME AND IN MOVEMENT MEANS TO GOD HOME, AND THIS INSTANTLY THROUGH THE VICEVERSALIZATION OF THE CLOTHES WHEN GOD THROWS THE CLOTHES OF THE RIGHTEOUS OVER THE SON OR WHERE SATAN WAS CAPTURED, AND THROWS THE CLOTHES OF LAWFULNESS WHERE HE WAS IN THE SON OR HE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE, AND THUS THE ENTRY OF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE WAS MADE POSSIBLE TO THE UNJUST AND THE ENTRY OF THE UNJUST TO THE RIGHTEOUS, THE RIGHTEOUS LET HIMSELF BE BEATEN BY THE UNJUST BECAUSE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE SHOULD BEAT THE UNJUST ONE INSTANTLY THROUGH VICEVERALIZATION. 👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿 Hosea (6:1) Come let us return to the Lord ! For He has torn us, but He will also heal us; He has smitten us, but He will also bind up our wounds. AMEN🧠❤THE OVERCOMER OVER PHYSICAL DEATH HAS OVERCOME SPIRITUAL DEATH.❤🧠Hebrews (2:14) Even so, as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, so also He Himself he was likewise a partaker of them, that by death he might destroy him that hath the power of death, that is, the devil, AMEN.
(I caution against using scripture out of context to generate a composite narrative/new context, without being very careful.
" (Job 5:18) He makes the wound and He binds it up; He wounds, and His hand heals."
That's Eliphaz the Temanite speaking there. One of the three men God will later say did not not speak the thing that is right of Him . .)
"Two wills of God". Multiple personalities? Concluding a mentally ill god? That's just........inconceivable as an idea, and disrespectful of God's character.
Well I never a dog person I’m sorry that is rank A heresy. ;)
Serious criticism. You look like Anton Levay. Please, please change your facial hair.
*NO!*
Am I the only one that feels like this was a plug for a book?
“Well I said in my book….”
“I have a whole chapter of that in my book….”
people who write books are always pluggin. this is how they make their money
Not *necessarily* a bad thing, unless they do it from the Pulpit, like John Bevere😅
It was a conversation to which books were identified for more exhaustive research on said topic.
Only one book for me these days.... so much deception out there.. B I B L E
ACCURSED. = ANATHEMA!!!
This smoocher needs a REAL Bible!
@@kgar5String Agree, but God doesn’t pick who will be saved and who will be damned before the world began. BIG DIFFERENCE!
@@kgar5Stringjust gonna say your constant assertion that you are not a calvinist while you do whatever you can to point to calvinism is suspect.. my experience is that calvinists lie about being calvinist