How Long Does a Wood Railroad Cross Tie Last
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Find out what the causes are for a Wood Railroad Cross Tie to wear out and how
long a wood tie will last in varying ballast and track conditions.
Weather also has a definite effect on ties. I did not cover this in the video and I
apologize for that. Ties in arid conditions will last a lot longer than ties in the
wet conditions we have here in SW Pa. The ties in our tunnel are original from 1975
and have never been replaced because they are on solid surface along with they
never get rained or snowed on.
See also:
What to Look for to find a Bad Railroad Cross Tie:
• Marking Bad Railroad C...
The Worst Section of Track we Have (we used to have):
• The Worst Section of T...
This is the 2nd video in a 4 part mini series on "The Working Life of a Railroad Tie"
Part 1. Spreading Black Bananas on the Railroad:
• Spreading Black Banana...
Part 3. Stuffing Railroad Ties with a TRIPP Machine:
• Stuffing Railroad Ties...
Part 4. Why some Railroads use Concrete Ties and some us Wood Ties:
• Why some Railroads use...
Made June 24, 2022 and April 30, 2023
Disclaimer: I am an employee of Iron Senergy at Cumberland
Mine. My job is railroad track maintenance. I am very fortunate to
have this job and everyone at the mine is very fortunate to have
Iron Senergy as it's current owner. Our past owners had every
intention of shutting this mine down, but Iron Senergy took
over and have kept this mine alive.
Please understand: I am NOT in any way an official or unofficial
spokes person for Iron Senergy or Cumberland Mine. Any viewpoints,
opinions or anything that I show in the videos, or write in the video
descriptions or any answer to any comment, should NEVER be
misconstrued or interpreted as being in any way shape or form,
any kind of official or unofficial statement from Iron Senergy,
Iron Cumberland, Cumberland Mine, any of the mine's management,
any of the contractors that may be shown in any video, nor of
any of my fellow co-workers.
Any viewpoints or opinions I may make in the videos, in the
descriptions, or in any answer to a comment is strictly that of my
own and NOT an official or unofficial statement or viewpoint that
Iron Synergy or any one at Iron Senergy or Cumberland Mine
necessarily has or makes.
Again, we are very fortunate to have Iron Senergy as our current
owners. Please, when making a comment be respectful of Iron Senergy,
Cumberland Mine, my fellow coworkers and also any contractors
that may be shown. Thank You, Dave
#HowLongRailroadTieLast#RailroadTie#WoodRailroadTie#RailroadCrossTie
Here’s an interesting tie fact: in the early 20th century, the Great Northern experimented with triangular ties. They allowed more ties to be cut from each log, and were also touted as ‘self-tamping’. Unfortunately, they had many issues and were discontinued in the early 1920s. The significantly smaller surface area on the bottom meant that the ballast didn’t hold them in place very well, and they tended to slip out of alignment frequently, especially on sharp curves.
Thanks, interesting, though in hindsight it probably didn't need to be tested to find it didn't work, only tested to find out how fast it wouldn't.
Thank you for sharing. Someone thought they had found a "better mouse trap" without testing the pattern thoroughly.
automobile drivers also tend to slip out of alignment on sharp curves!
Very interesting Ryan, I had never heard of those before. I wonder
how they kept spikes from loosening up with the less wood or
did they only drive spikes in the center of those ties? I can
definitely see how they wouldn't work for curves tho. Appreciate your visiting with us and checking out the tie show my friend.
LOL, You're right in that al ro!
I've spent a few years volunteering for the Downeast Scenic Railroad here in Maine as part of the MOW crew. The tracks we operate on were at one time part of the Maine Central Railroad's Calais Branch line. In my years of working on the railroad, I've helped to replace worn out railroad ties and helped maintain the tracks. Some of those worn out railroad ties contained date nails that date back to the 1940's. It's impressive how long a wooden railroad tie will last. Some spend more than 60 years in service and still be in good shape.
Tie life depends on location, train traffic, wheel loading, and to some extent wood species.
Hey neighbor.. I'm about 40 miles east of you and can see the Sunrise Trail from home..
You cant get them last half as long today,just like lumber you buy today wont last..
Yeah,I remember seeing old date nails like that on old ties on the CP line back in the '70s and '80s on the Moosehead section.
You are right, some ties can last much longer than 30 years, a lot
depends on the traffic over it and the weather, here in SW Pa. a lot
of rain and snow, weather is a big factor plus the heavy coal trains
we have. Appreciate the very nice comment. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Class with Teacher Dave is always interesting and well presented with real hands on experiences. I enjoyed the class. Thank you, Dave.
Your welcome Shirley, thank you for the kind words. Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
@@ccrx6700 the world is full of interesting things, places and people. We just have to stop and appreciate them. I do appreciate what you share.
Lots of good info! After I worked for the EJ&E, which was very well maintained, I worked for a tiny little short line in Chicago that was completely shot. Nothing but mud, gauge rods and joint bars. Ties were held in place by the ruts mashed into the ties. Loooong stretches of ties cut by a derailment. It was amazing that we moved freight at all. It was remnants of CRI&P, CNW, BRC, CWI and I think some Pennsy. Very steeped in history but basically untouched.
Glad you enjoyed Matt. How sad that a once fine RR ended up
like you say, but look what happened to Penn Central, same thing. No
money for track maintenance. 70 MPH trains got down to 10 MPH.
When you have to start putting in gage rods, you know you're in
trouble. :-) Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
Very informative, Dave. I love how you balance the maintenance resources on this railroad. Obviously, you have an excellent grasp of the physics involved with ties, ballast, rail as a system.
Thank you for the very kind comment Mark. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Great video Dave! With that large area of track pumping like that, there were a lot of loose spikes! Does that increase the risk of derailment? A note about different woods. Maple has almost no natural resistance to decay. Red oak is nearly as bad because of it's open pores. White oak, walnut, and black locust are the most naturally decay resistant (in our area). We have 100 year-old fence posts on our land made from black locust, and the stumps of old white oaks are still around from land cleared in 1930.
Black walnut ties, I can't imagine doing that now with the cost of walnut being so pricey.
Thank you for the nice comment Mojo. You are right, those loose
spikes and enough of them are a derailment waiting to happen
but as you saw in the first part, we replaced a good many of those
ties in that spot. Appreciate the info on the woods. Totally
agree with you on your thoughts there. Locust is the wood of choice
for farmers here for posts too. Appreciate your dropping by and
checking out the tie show my friend.
I always knew ties were key, but not why. This is a good eye-opener for me. I remember the earlier video where you folks were doing some cribbing in a muddy section of track so I remember mud being an issue and now, you explain why in good detail :) Black bananas are expensive! I did not stop to think what wood would be used, but it makes sense that hardwoods would last longer and so I now know that oak is used quite often - and it makes sense!
Thank you for the very nice comment Brian. Some places across the country ties are going for over $100. Here we get them at 80. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Love your videos Dave. Your videos are always informative and interesting, and entertaining. Thank you so much.
Thank you for the very kind comment Larry. So glad to hear you are enjoying them. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Dave you can only maintain your track to the level of the money the bean counters give you . I went through high count resleepering with Creosited pine sleepers in the middle of summer in Australia ,evil stuff breathing the fumes and getting the "treatment "mixed with sweat in your eyes.We used coach screws with Stumec drivers,rather than spikes and added anchors up around the curves . The main line system upgraded to concrete a lot of secondary timber tracks got shut . Not a bad work life going from timber and Fairmont M19s to Plasser-Theurer SMD-80 concrete track layer and CAT Tampers.Your vids do a great service to the up and coming track workers
Thank you very much Chris for the nice comment. Yes on the bean
counters plus we have to work track here with trains running a lot
and only a few guys to maintain the track. Lot of challenges, but
all RR's have their problems and challenges. Do what you can.
Would I ever love to see in person that track layer work! I've seen
videos of the continuous action tampers but again, never in person, no one around here has one. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Great video. Everything you say about your road bed can be said about public roads. If the subgrade is bad, the pavement will be bad. If you replace over bad subgrade without excavating and replacing it, the new pavement will be bad in about three weeks.
Thank you Jasper for the nice comment. You are so right in your
thoughts on the road bed. Public road by my house went bad in
several areas, they had to dig up all the old junk and fill in with good
rock, then they paved over it or if they just paved over it, would have
soon gone bad again. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
The whole time watching this video I’m calculating your worth to the company? They’re fortunate to have your knowledge and commitment! Thank you for sharing, it’s inspiring for sure
Thank you for the very kind comment Zulu Bravo. Actually I'm blushing..... That was very thoughtful of you to say that. You don't know how much that means to me! Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Wow! Going over the ties' part in the track stability, and how wear affects the ties and track is much appreciated. Making more sense as we go along. Mega thanks!
Thank you for the very kind comment Trena. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
In 1993 I bought a used tie and used it for a fence post. It had a nail in the end with 53 embossed on it and the tie is still pristine to this very day.
Nice lonestar. I've got many fence posts from old ties here on my
farm too. They make great corner or gate posts. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Amazing how long they will last with proper maintenance. You do such a great job making sure the track is in great shape.
Thank you Beverly for the very kind words. Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Once again you don`t disappoint us with your knowledge and learning abilities. Those rails look really nice to me. thanks Dave.
Thank you for the very kind comment Wilbur, that was really
thoughtful of you to say that. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Just in time Dave! Sat down from a long day out and here you are, 20 minute video just WAITING for me to watch. Thank you for your efforts along with every other railroad worker out there! LOVE THIS STUFF!
We aim to please Nick..... :-) Appreciate the very nice comment. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Dave, you may want to look into curve blocks for the curves, we have curve blocks in every curve at every third ties through out the whole body of the curve.
Thanks for the suggestion Jason, will have to do some research
on that. WE have none here. 13 degrees is our sharpest main line
curve and right before that is an opposite hand 12 degree curve.
It's US Steel engineering that did that..... Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Thanks for the knowledge of cribbing ties.
Your welcome Rik, glad you enjoyed. Very much appreciate your taking the time to watch the video and may you have a most blessed day my friend.
Thank you Dave for that very good explanation. You did a very nice job of explaining how critical drainage is. I enjoyed the video. Keep them coming!
Appreciate the very nice comment Mill Valley Northern. That
was very thoughtful of you to write in and say that. Thanks
so much for visiting with us and checking out the video my friend.
Taking your class as a refresher. Thank you, Dave.
Glad you are enjoying Shirely. Appreciate very much your visiting with us to check out the video my friend.
Thank you Dave for another educational video! Everytime I think I know all their is to know about railroading, I find that there is still more to learn!
Your welcome Raymond, and believe me I'm still learning new
things about railroading and trains all the time, pretty cool isn't
it. I've found out one thing when I first started making these
videos, I better be right when I say something about RR or I
will get busted from the "correct police" So with that said, I do
try my best to provide accurate information or else I will suffer
the consequences from all the many, many other railroaders out
there who will bust me on it if I'm wrong. :-) Always a pleasure
to have you visit and write in my friend.
Dave, that curve looks great👷♂️⛏️↩️👍4 seasons of extremes temp&weather. It's amazing that it lasts that long🗓🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲
Thank you for the very kind comment Doug. You are right, I forgot to mention about how the changing seasons affect the life of a tie, and weather greatly does have an effect on them. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
No soap box here Dave. Just Lots of good information. Love it all.
Thank you Ed for the kind words. Really appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Thank you Dave, a very informative video! Given all the factors you outlined, it seems that having employees like you are a valuable asset to the company. Very difficult to put a price on all that knowledge!
You are very welcome Richard. Thank you for the really kind words.
That was thoughtful of you to say that. Appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Already know this is a good video without even finishing! Keep up the work!
Thank you Fishing in The Zoo for the nice comment. Hope you
did finish the video. Really appreciate your taking the time to
drop by and check out tonight's presentation my friend.
A few years back, took the cog-railway up Pike's Peak. Interestingly, once above the 'tree-line' you would see random piles of ties along the track. They would just leave them and the conductor explained some of them had been there for decades, slowly decaying away.
I bet that was a cool ride Mike. Really glad you got to take that
trip. I would love to do that someday. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
I have heard that the Ozarks has been clear cut twice : once for pencils and once for railroad ties . Thank you for sharing , I really enjoy your videos 🤗
Isn't that interesting, bet they got a lot of pencils out of that Mike!
Glad you are enjoying the home movies and thank you for your taking the time to visit with us and check out the video my friend.
Man that clean ballast with good ties is really a beautiful site.
Thank you for the very kind comment Bill. It surely is from the really bad track curve 15 once was and how beautiful it is now. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Here in the Roseville, Ca and up the hill towards Tahoe the ties / sleepers used to last about 10 to 18 years but, a few years ago Union Pacific installed concrete ties with clamp attachments for the rails on the run.
Thank you Dave for explaining track maintenance.
Well, some of the issues mentioned (wear against the ballast) might affect concrete. Moreover, the imbedded steel in the fullness of time can be attacked by the naturally acidic rain water. That was the base cause of the collapse of the condo in Florida.
Your welcome Cameron. Glad you enjoyed. Appreciate your
taking the time to watch and write in my friend. we're gonna have
a video out soon on why some RR's use concrete and some use
wood, so hope to see you on that one.
@@ccrx6700 Yes Dave, it won't miss it. I would like to say that the rails are difficult at times to maintain though it has gotten better with the concrete ties and fully welded track.
It is a much smoother ride now from Sacramento up to Tahoe. A few years ago Union Pacific had to grind the tunnels so double stack shipping containers could pass through; that was cool watching that being done.
Thanks again Dave.
@@cameronmccreary4758 👍😊
Another nice video Dave - 12 to 14 month from the time the tree is cut, ready for delivery and install on the railway, got to love the loggers supplying the tie mills around the country. Like hearing your talks upon your soapbox. Cheers and stay safe
Thank you Pete for the very nice comment. Sure would love to do
a video sometime on the tree to tie plant. Toured a tie plant last
summer but they didn't want me to make a video there, but it
was awesome to see how raw lumber gets graded and creosoted.
Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Great video Dave!
Taking part of track maintenance I can only agree. A restored point had the frog bolted to a steel plate. The steel plate is held down to the ties by large screws. Prior to screwing the tie must be drilled. Then oil is poored into the hole to keep water away. It's the same kind of oil as being used painting houses ages ago.
Very interesting on the oil in the holes, I like that idea Stefan, thanks
for sharing it. When we pull a spike we fill the hole with sure spike,
wonder how the oil and sure spike would mix? Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
Excellent video Dave!!! Boy, when it comes to track and roadbed...... You're the man! I learned so much from this video....... Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. 😊
And I think the part I liked best is when you went into the details on the economic burden that would be relieved by changing your ties and maintaining your roadbed. It's amazing how one thing can impact another, huh?
So many companies these days make the mistake of letting go of their older workers...... Simply because of their age. But they never assess the value of letting go of that "knowledge" and "common horse Sense" that those older workers have accumulated. You're a poster boy, Dave, for why a company should hang onto its older experienced employees. Your kind of knowledge cannot be gained in a day!
Wow John what a very nice comment, I'm blushing..... Very much
appreciate your kind words. I'm so pleased to hear you are learning
some things about the RR from the videos, that makes me feel
wonderful to know that. Thank you so much for watching the video
and writing in my friend.
Track inspection must be a daily occurence. Great information as usual Dave.
Any Respectable Organization checks the innerworkings of the operations daily ? YUP !
I am required by Fed law to make a minimum once a week track
inspection here Bob. In really hot or cold weather I often do it
many times a week. The higher the class of track, the more
frequent track inspections are required by the law. Passenger
trains going 100 MPH require 3 times a week inspections. We have class 2 track which is 25 mph so inspections are required less
frequently. Always a pleasure to have you pay us a visit and
write in my friend.
Thanks Dave for enlightening us about wooden RR ties, or as they are called in England; Sleepers. Florida East Coast has now changed to concrete reinforced ties, as have most of the Class 1's. 😎
Your welcome BR549 (cool username, love that song) This is the second video in a 4 part mini series on ties. The 4th video will show you the differences between concrete and wood ties and tell you the reasons why some railroads use wood and some use concrete. That video will be shown in about a week and a half from now. Hope to see you then and thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
It's a beautiful day on the railroad with Dave
It's a beautiful day on the railroad track, a beautiful day on the
railroad track, could you, would you, won't you please be my
track man.... with apologies to Mr. Rodgers. Thank you very much
Donald for stopping by and checking out the tie show my friend.
Your expertise and experience make for an excellent video. Bravo!
Thank you for the very kind comment Dennis, really thoughtful of you
to say that. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Really awesome video Dave! Very educational for me. I never knew all of the things that cause tie failure. I always thought it was just the weather. Thanks so much for showing us what is involved.
Thank you for the very kind comment William. Weather certainly does affect tie life and that is 1 thing I forgot to mention about in the video, but you are right. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
That was a very informative video Dave. And thanks for showing how much the ties can actually move when the bedding isn't ideal. Thanks Dave!
🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃👍💯🇺🇸
Thank you for the very kind comment Jim and you are always
welcome, my pleasure to share. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Another excellent “that’s railroadin” video. Thank you for posting.
We aim to please William..... :-) Appreciate the very nice comment. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Another fantastic video Dave. I imagine sitting in water doesn't help but not much you can do but what you do. 😁😁
Thank you for the very kind comment Dennis. Always appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Really great information. I had always wondered how long a tie would last. I never mind listening to you when you are on your soapbox. Have a great day my friend.
Thank you Lewis for the very kind words. Glad you enjoyed.
Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
I thoroughly enjoy your enthusiam for the railroad....and your Western Pennsylvania accent, n'at.
Used to.have a lot of family in Greene County...still there but in Greene Memorial Park...
I imagine that it is a challenge to keep the ballast clean with the amount of rain we get.
Take care n'at.
Thank you Penguins Fan for the very nice comment. Glad you are
enjoying. Most of my family who have made their transition are
also in GMP. You are certainly right in the challenge to keep
the ballast clean, it's a never ending battle. Appreciate your
visiting with us and writing in my friend.
*One of those ties at the end could very well be one I Beat on the S braces or plate. I worked at Indiana creosote for 3 years in the Early 80s doing it all when it came to R.R. Ties. Best part was loading them in there cars sending them down the tracks* What a process it is
I bet that was a fun job ....LOL Hydraulic pressing on of the plates
is the definite way to go now. Not sure if they ever used hydraulics for
the S clips or not, or it was all done by hand? Appreciate your visiting with us and checking out the tie show my friend.
Well Dave I see here in my area of the world they're replacing wood ties with concrete or composite ties , tie plates and rails are screwed down great video Dave great explanation of tie problems but this is what causes derailments track maintenance is of most importance thank you Dave awesome job
Good point Gary. This is the 2nd video in a 4 part mini series on
ties. the 4th video we will address the differences between concrete
and wood ties and why some RR's use wood and some concrete,
so hope to see you on that one. Thanks for the nice comment
my friend. It's always a pleasure to hear from you.
Thanks Dave;
I posted this video on my face book page because many folks have asked me this very question.
Blessings my brother.
Your welcome Marty. Appreciate your posting to FB, hope your
viewers enjoy it. This is the 2nd video in a 4 part mini series on ties.
The 4th video will be about concrete vs wood ties. That's a topic
everyone seems to want to know about. Thank you very much
for visiting with us and writing in my friend.
Good afternoon, Dave, from the Southern Ocean.
Howdy Barry, hope you are well. Appreciate your visiting with us
and checking out the tie show my friend.
The previous owners of our home used old railroad ties as a lawn fence/border around our back yard. We took all of the ties, stacked them two high and made a nice raised garden bed out of them (17.5' x 4' x 1'.) I just hope that creosote doesn't leach into the soil too much.
Appreciate your sharing that with us Adam, my garden is surrounded by used ties also. Thank you very much
for taking the time to visit with us and check out the video
my friend.
Another great video Dave, awesome !
Where I live back in 1870 the Rio Grande built its track with ties that cost .30 cents each. A huge price increase since then compared to the ties you just got. I bet they were untreated pine and did not last very long.
Thanks for sharing.
Back in the late 1960's gas cost 30 cents a gallon too Scott. The
times have sure changed haven't they. Wonder if back then the
workers got paid 30 cents a day putting those ties in. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
Another great video Mr. Dave. Something I experienced in the past was a friend of mine had worked on a section gang in 1983 replacing ties on the former Milwaukee Road Superior division in northern Wisconsin. He gave me a few date nails from 1927. That's 56 years. Of course the Milwaukee Road was in financial trouble and the maintenance was poor. I think at that time it was 25 mph and the sag was significant. Thanks again.
Thank you Brian for the nice comment. How cool you got some old
nails, I'm jealous! But, good for you. We do appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and watch the tie show my friend.
Great job with the video. I worked on a tourist railroad in northern Nevada Some of the ties we have been replacing are almost 50years old being from when they originally re laid the rails. We use a combination of diesel and steam locomotives and I always wonder if that makes any difference on how long the tie last. We're lucky that we have a lot of our own mow equipment and only have to hire outside help occasionally.
Well, where there is little rain, wood ties can be expected to last longer.
@@GilmerJohn your absolutely right, however here lately we have been getting hit with large snow storms during the winter, so the run off although not as bad as rain does have a impact. We are on a mountain with steep grades.
Thank you Robert for the nice comment. Many ties do last longer
than 30 years, depends on the ballast conditions and weather.
I assume it's fairly dry in Nevada which helps greatly in extending
tie life from all the rain and snow we get here. The problem with
steam is the cinders and ashes that gets into the ballast and plugs
it up over time. Appreciate your visiting with us and checking out the tie show my friend.
@@ccrx6700 we do get hit with snow storms here, this year being the worst in recorded history, so much that the ski resorts actually had to close because the lifted chairs were not high enough to stay over the snow. I've always loved mow videos but wonder if you could do one on how crossing gates work? We have one that malfunctions all the time and I don't know enough to really be of any help. We just call for a contractor to come up. Gets pretty expensive fast!
OMG Dave...just ran across your short on "kissing ties"...what a hoot🤣 Just hoping you aren't standing too close when the loco's are getting re-fueled😮 No telling what those fumes will do to ya buddy... oh well, that's railroading.👍😉 Keep up the great work. See ya on the siding.
Creosote and ballast dust is what rots a railroaders brain Michael....LOL Probably the biggest reason why I have such a
goofball laugh.... :-) Thank you for the very kind comment. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Enjoy watching your videos very educational thank you rail fan Tommy
Thank you Tommy, glad you are enjoying all the home movies. Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Thanks to you and the company for the vlog!
Your very welcome, glad you enjoyed. Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Dave: the videos you post make so many things clear to us armchair railroaders.
From many many years of watching trains, I had noted that sometimes it appeared that the top of the rail was moving up and down as the train wheels passed over. I had suspected that this was an optical illusion. You have clarified that when you see this, it is all too real, and this "pumping" of the track means that the ballast has been infiltrated by mud and that the ties are no longer holding the rails in position as they should.
Glad you enjoyed John. Most RR's allow about a 1/2 inch or so
of track pumping under loads, it is not at all unusual. But when
there is mud that pumping is far worse and that is what creates
a lot of problems. Your viewing was not an optical illusion. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Thank you again for the video and your additional explanation.
Fascinating to see what effect the mud can have on the ties over time... Thank you for sharing, Dave!
Glad you enjoyed Seth, you are always welcome, it was my pleasure. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
You guys take better care of your tracks than most class 2 or 3 railroads
Thank you for the very kind words cmphighpower. We try to do
what we can with the money, time and manpower available
and most of it is done working track with trains running.
Appreciate your taking the time to watch and write in my friend.
Very interesting! When I watch your videos I always think about the primitive strap rail tracks that were used in the 1800s and just imagine how far railroads have come!
Nice Eric. Did you know that many people were killed or badly
injured from that strap rail? it was called snake heads. When a
train passed over it, sometimes the straps would break loose
and curl up under the cars. Cars had wood bottoms and it would
often go up thru the bottom and hit passengers. After the strap
rail they tried cast iron rail which had terrible wear, they would
often replace cast iron rail in a curve every month because of
the poor rail. I need do a video sometime on the history of rail
which I will do someday. Always appreciate your visiting with us
and writing in my friend.
@ccrx 6700 That's Railroadin! Yup, very dangerous indeed! I have a whole book from the late 40s all about the development of the railroad and the evolution. It was given to me by a former Bethlehem Steel employee.
Thank you, Dave for that great tutorial!
You are certainly welcome Martin, glad you enjoyed. Very much appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and check out the concrete vs wood tie video my friend.
You know, It's because of you I find myself checking the conditions of the tracks I cross in my daily ventures... I live about 10 miles from Pere Marquette.R&R line... By White Cloud, And I Thank you sir... 😄 Stay safe, ✌
Good for you Renegade! That makes me feel good to hear that.
Soon you will be a full time track inspector. Appreciate your
watching the video and writing in and sharing that my friend. PS:
start taking a can or orange spray paint with you to mark corrections
and bad ties that need to be made in the track.....:-)
@@ccrx6700 😆 Be safe brother..
Well, that was another interesting video. You ever count how many times a tie is handled from new till it's dead, even piles of dead ties have to be piled up and handled again. Thanks Dave.
Glad you enjoyed Jim. Really appreciate your watching and for
the nice comment. Tie handling, now if we go back to the logger,
to the saw mill, to the tie plant and all the times it's handled in
the tie plant, then trucked in here, unloaded, spread out, inserted,
later removed and then picked up and loaded into dumpsters,
I don't have that many fingers and toes to count on.....LOL
Outstanding Dave
Thank you for the kind words Kevin. Really appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
Nice and informative vid as usual!☘️👍
Thank you for the very kind comment donal finn. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
I used to work for Cedrite in Kansas City and we would take old ties that were too far gone for anything other than burning and grind them up, mix the resulting "sawdust" with epoxy, add a couple of apatong wood stringers, and press it into a tie mold and bake them.
As part of the process we would do a rough grind that would take the tie down to fist sized chunks before grinding them down to a finer sawdust. Between the hammer mill and the knife mill we had a large magnet that would pull out any iron broken free from the hammer mill. The iron scrap would get collected and recycled. In the mix of "S" bands and spikes were date nails. We were allowed to take as many date nails as we wanted (or any other iron scrap for that matter).
I donated mine to a group that was rebuilding a steam engine ages ago, I had some dating back to 1919 IIRC.
Appreciate the nice comment and for sharing those thoughts. Thank you very much for taking the time to watch and write in my friend.
Very educational. Thanks.
Thank you Eliot, glad you enjoyed. Very much appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Hi Dave;
As always you make a great video. How about concrete ties???
Thank you Franklin for the kind words. This is the 2nd video in a
4 part mini series on ties. I will tell you all about concrete ties in
the 4th video in this series, so hope to see you on that one my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Looking forward to that 4th video, I think they use concrete ties in Europe. Do enjoy your vid's!
Great video Dave 👍👍🚂
Thank you Christopher, glad you liked it. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Love seeing a new video, or rewatching one of your past ones. Thanks for your education and enthusiasm.
Thank you Dayton District Railfan for the kind words. Really appreciate your taking the time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Sure thing!
Another good one. You could make paint drying interesting.
Glad you enjoyed North Detroit. Hmmm, sounds like I could easily
get a job with Sherman Williams then..... LOL LOL Always a pleasure
to hear from you my friend.
Dave weather plays a major role in how long ties and rails last, hot expands, cold contracts, and a variation of both cause havoc to maintain, and water and the fun begins!! Mother nature and father time are always in atug of war!! That comes with the territory, thats Railroadin!!
You are absolutely right Billy. Weather is hard on ties, the freeze thaw cycles we have here in the winter are hard on ties and the entire
track. Thanks so much for taking the time to share that and
to watch the tie show my friend.
Very interesting dave
We aim to please Daniel..... :-) Appreciate the very nice comment. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
The 2'6" railway I worked on, they found lots of ties to replace after tamping.
Some of the other material used for ties are steel, pre stressed concrete, and recycled plastic.
The best lot of wooden sleepers I have seen are in an area like a tunnel or underpass where there is little to no rain.
Another thing that can effect the life of a sleeper, at least here in Australia, is termites. The wrong species of timber will soon be eaten.
Imagine that termites eating wood ..... Do they eat it even if a
tie is creosoted Kevin? I imagine once they get inside the tie where it's
not they will have a prime rib feast.... :-) The ties we have in our
tunnel here are original, 1975 and so hard you cannot drive a spike
in them without pre drilling. Weather has a definite affect on how long
a tie can last. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
Great explanation on ties Dave. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Brian. 2 more videos coming out in this 4 part
mini series on ties. Hope to see you on them also. Always is
a pleasure to have you visit with us and write in my friend.
Thanks Dave
Your welcome Frank. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
Hi Dave. Great video. Unfortunately here in Western Pennsylvania the weather is harsh. We get all 4 seasons very often all in the same day!
I’m sure for ties like those they don’t last too long before having to be replaced.
It’s too bad your little railroad can’t put in concrete ties.
I’m just saying.
Appreciate the very nice comment Johnathan. You are right and I
forgot to mention how weather affects the ties. Ties in arid conditions last longer than they do here for sure. In the 4th video in this 4 part mini series on ties I will go over concrete ties, a whole
lot of stuff that most folks don't realize when deciding which type of tie to use. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
Another great video Dave thank you and may I say your permanent way is looking good
Thank you Ian, glad you enjoyed. Appreciate the very kind words
and for taking the time to visit with us and watch my friend.
Dave you had another really good video this evening. Dave I really enjoyed it . Dave I have been seeing some detour trains passing through Odessa Missouri it was the union Pacific . Because the Missouri river out it's banks .
Thank you Mike, glad you liked it. Really appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend. Another video
I saw the upper Mississippi had high water also about a week ago.
Great video thanks for all the info!
Thank you for the very kind comment CoViN, and your welcome. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Great clip Nice Video.
Thank you for the very kind comment Derrick. Appreciate your
taking the time to visit with us and always a pleasure to hear from you my friend.
A lot of useful information in this video due to your experience and knowledge. Great!
Appreciate the very nice comment. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last.
Good to see another of your educational videos. I see your ties are the same dimensions as ours. I thought yours may be thicker with the heavier weights you carry. Do you use a hammer to tap the ties, they make a different sound when going rotten underneath, they even tried out a track machine that could do that and record where bad ones were.
I have never heard of using a hammer to test the ties cedarcam,
now that's interesting. I believe it was you guys who started using
hammers to test for bad bearings on the steam locos? They do
make a testing machine that is able to detect ties going bad. One
friend of mine was a road master with G&W RR, he was telling me
about it, said it worked very well, but I have never seen one. It uses
similar to ultrasonic rail testing. I'm going to have to start hitting
ties with my track hammer now to see if I can hear differences!!!
Cool. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Yes we used to have guys with a long hammer who tapped wheels to check for defects and on steam locomotives the enginemen would go round with a hammer tapping things to check for any loose bolts. I bet they still do that on these charter trains I go to see but so far have not seen anyone doing it. I saw them checking the bearings with hand held heat sensors at Carlisle recently for the first time, usually they use the back of their hand to check for warm bearings. Here is a wheel tapper, one of the last places we had them, I only got him checking for warm bearings but you can see his long hammer ruclips.net/video/hEPYzCJYPx0/видео.html 3:26
Thank you for the information 👍🌞
Your always welcome Mel, my pleasure to share with you.
Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Hello Dave:Hope that all is well, I missed the cost of the ties? and the spikes?
just in materials it is costly to keep the rails safe, not including labor to install ,
maintain, and re-ballast to clean out muddy areas, not including coal spills!
great explanation and key information about how important it is to do the
up keep especially having to deal with ARA and other federal agencies.
I found a piece of Bethlehem steel rail (BSco.) near the junction with CSX, dated
february 1941 my grandfather worked at the steel mill in lackawanna, NY running a crane
that carried hot metal rolls to the cooling area. they had a roller mill there that could
make rail for the railroad. When in H. School took 2 tours there through the operations
it was so neat, the volume of materials made was staggering! great video, hope you have a
great day! stay safe, healthy, and well! barry
Ties cost us $80, in some places of the country they are over 100
Barry. How cool you got to tour that mill. I hope to tour the mill
at Steelton this summer where we get our rail. We have many
sticks of BSCO. After they filed bankruptcy then they made PST
rail which we have some of, then it was Arcelor Mittal now it is simply
Steelton. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
@@ccrx6700
any time you put up a video, I will be there! I believe I was at Bethlehem steel
in Lackawanna NY in 1976 & 77. that plant was huge! I remember them making
steel plate At the start a few feet / min, 30 or 40 mph by the end rolling it up.
that was a very safety conscious business, all the heat, and tonnage of steel
the thinner the faster it went down the line. I wish I had some photos, but not
allowed in the process area. barry have a wonderful day! Dave
Hap it was pumpin like craze!!
It is worse when it rains too Garth. WE have a lot of challenges
here to deal with, but all RR's have their own unique challenges,
we do what we can with what we are given to work with in time,
money and man power. Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
I'm a director of software engineering but I really enjoy these videos, you guys are out there doing REAL work and it's appreciated. I feel like modern life has separated most people from the fact that all the things we enjoy are a result of men and women out in the field doing truly hard work!
Wow, what a very nice comment cardbored. Thank you so much
for taking the time to watch the video and write in my friend. Glad
to hear you are enjoying the home movies.
In 1960-1964, my father put up retaining walls using salvage RR ties. As of 2019, when I sold the family house, these tie walls were still intact and holding up well. Creosote was a great wood preservative even tho it is now considered as a haz mat product.
edit Green prestone antifreeze will kill/stop dry rot in wood and can be figerglassed over. Old wood boat builder trick.
Many coal company built houses here and old log cabins were
treated with creosote. Lot's of black houses around. Can't even buy creosote anymore unless you're a tie plant. Neat info on the Prestone,
did not know that. Thanks so much for visiting with us and checking out the video my friend.
Did you collect 'Date Nails' ? I don't have a complete set but got some from Penn Central and AT&SF.
Now that I got them I don't know what I'll ever do with them. Thanks for the video.
I have no date nails Wes and I would love to take those off your
hands!!! So if you ever want to sell them, you've got a buyer. Just
let me know. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and
write in tonight my friend.
@@ccrx6700 I'll keep you in mind. Thanks for the reply.
I'm not sure how many "landlocked" railroads are out there, so I don't know if it is even a worthwhile venture for a company to take on, but in watching this, I thought, wouldn't it be neat if there was a company that built and operated like a 3 or 4-unit semi-truck based undercutter/ballast cleaner that could travel on paved roads from job to job and get on the track on any railroad and get to work cleaning ballast. Just a thought considering how many things have been efficiently downsized to be truck mountable now. Thanks for more free education, Dave. 🤠👍
Good thoughts Scotty, and being the trucker you are, of course
you would think that. We have had an under cutter in here, it was
mounted on a Cat excavator and hauled in by truck obviously.
We sure could use some undercutting! Always is a pleasure
to have you visit with us and hear from you my friend.
Dave, I will type this again. We sure could have used you on the old KLS&C! We did not have a track maintenance program to speak of. If they replaced 100 ties a year on the 14 mile line it was a banner year. No cribbing ever that I recall. I know we never got any amount of new ballast. Just literally, run it into the ground!
Were they related to Penn Central.... LOL I love to take a section of
track that is messed up and make it back into really nice track again,
so I would love to come there and start cribbing and replacing ties,
sounds like a good retirement project for me! But just know, the
days of hand spiking in new ties are over for me, so get a hydraulic
or pneumatic spiker ready.... :-) Thanks so much for watching and
writing in my friend.
@@ccrx6700 Dave, I think since we were after Penn Central, I think we learned from them. You can relax. Most of the KLS&C track is gone. Pioneer RR sold most of it for scrap back in the later 1990s.
Our speed limit was 15 mph for passenger and 10 mph for freight. We had sections with a 5 mph slow order. One was where we went through Lake Cora going between the cottages and their beach. The other was the "S" curves on the grade to climb up from Lawrence to Hartford. Oh would that track creak and groan under the train!
Dave, I will tell you a secret. Do not tell anyone! There were two times I did get old 85 up to 32 mph. Once on a charter passenger run. The conductor told me to move it to get back on schedule. The other was a freight run pushing a 50 foot box car loaded with California wines and a caboose. The same conductor asked me if we could make it from Lawrence to Paw Paw in 30 minutes to beat the departure of the Dinner Train. I did some mental math and told him yes, but he would have to help by "steering" the caboose. (the brake wheel) In the couple of spots with good rail, I let 85 roll. I was interesting watching 85 and the box car both sway down the track out of sync as we went. I was on the edge of my seat ready to grab train brakes the moment anything didn't feel exactly right. We did the run safely and got into the siding in time for the Dinner Train to depart on time. One other thing, the speed recorder on 85 never did work! I let my conductor answer all questions as to how we made it back so quickly. Afterall, he was in charge of the run!!!! I just ran the engine!!!!
Another great info video.. you know your stuff Dave. Thanks
Thank you Pappy, glad you liked it. Really appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend.
I can’t help but think about the Milwaukee Road and the battle they had with rotting ties in Snoqualmie Pass. They didn’t replace the bad ones until they absolutely had to, or when they had another derailment on their hands. It never occurred to me that their ties disintegrated in the mud so quickly. I can’t be certain but I seem to remember Mark Hemphill writing that the Milwaukee Road had “The Finest Dirt Track Mainline in the West.” Additionally, Milwaukee Road’s muddy track problem was exacerbated by the need to keep their electric catenary in perfect alignment. 1” off at rail level equals 12” off at the contact wire. There was some slop room in alignment but for a railroad as cash-poor as the Milwaukee was, the extra maintenance cost to fine-tune the catenary after each derailment had to have easily eaten up what savings they were getting out of the electrics. Who knows, the catastrophic final deterioration of their tracks after the sudden rush of traffic from the BN gateways may have been due to simply never cleaning their ballast, or not having any in the first place.
Very interesting comment Douglas, I really enjoyed reading it and
hearing some history. It is sad when a once fine RR gets strapped for
money and can't do the right maintenance. Look at Penn Central,
same thing. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
I noted that the shape of the spike regarding the "cut" it makes is against the fibers in the tie. Is that to avoid the tie splitting or to make the spike grip better in the tie? Great video as always, Dave!
Very observant of you Kristian. You are right in both cases you
mention. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and
check out the video on how long ties will last my friend.
Thx for the great information again
Your welcome Kyle, glad you liked it. Really appreciate your taking the
time to check out the tie show and write in my friend. Good to see
you again.
Great video Dave, Thank you!!! On average how long do rail and tie plates last and which mill produces the rail that is used. I'm glad that you have confidence in your new management hopefully they will continue to invest in the railroad.
Glad you enjoyed Bruce. The length of time a rail lasts depends on
a whole bunch of factors, I need to do a video on that, cause way
to much cover in a comment reply. Big thing is sharp degree curves
cause a lot of wear on the inside rail head. So it all depends on
where then rail is located and what kind of traffic goes over it.
Tie plates hardly ever wear out, they do get broken from derailments
and then need replacing. Thank you for taking the time to visit with us and check out the tie show my friend.
I remember when these were all the rage for landscaping. :-)
They still are sold for landscaping timbers, but not a big market
around here. Will talk more about that in the 4th video in this
4 part mini series on ties, hope to see you on that video where
I go over the differences between concrete and wood ties.
Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
A few questions. 1. Can you replace spikes that won't hold with screws/bolts? 2. Wouldn't the ties last much longer if they had creosote to the center? The better treated lumber is treated all of the way through and lasts much longer than the treated lumber that has a center that's not treated. 3. Do you ever use ties treated with creosote alternatives?
1. Depends, if the tie plates have rounded holes punched in them then
yes a lag screw could be put in. Almost all of our tie plates here do
not have the round holes, only the square holes to accept spikes Perry.
2. Yes they would, however the seasoning time for a rough cut tie
would triple also there would have to be some way for the creosote
to be able to penetrate to the center of the tie and no method out
there that I know of currently can do that.
3. Never. Industrial grade ties are often treated with alternatives to
creosote and they are often made from softwoods. They don't last
nearly as long as the grade ties (made from hardwoods). We only
buy grade ties.
Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Hi Dave. Look forward to your next video. I know your not a bean counter, but I'm wondering if it would it be cheaper for railroads to use concrete ties instead of wood ties? I would think in the long term it would save money and reduce maintenance costs.what are your thoughts?
This was the second video in a 4 part mini series on ties Larry.
The 4th video will show you the differences between concrete and
wood ties and tell you the reasons why some railroads use wood
and some use concrete. That video will be shown in about a week
from now. Hope to see you then and thanks so much for stopping by and checking out the video on how long ties last my friend.
I worked for csx in the maintenance of way department for 28 years. On one of the branch line I work on the tie had date nails in the center from the 30's and 40's. The date is now stamped on the ends.
Very interesting to hear that Johnny. Curious how a tie is stamped?
Do you mean they put a plate on with the date that is driven into
the tie. I can certainly understand that and think it's a really good
idea. Thanks so much for watching and writing in my friend.
Near us, an old interurban road bed was converted to a recreational path. During maintenence, ties are regularly discovered that are over 100 years old, still in perfect condition.
A good many old RR's have had their tracks taken out and converted
to bike or walking trails, we have several around here too Herschel.
Thanks for taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
Great information there , a lot of knowledge there too , you have a great happy laugh, love these videos.
You are always so positive, Dave, in your approach to showing this part of us and our infrastructure!! You are end? friend!!
Also, I have not gone through all your videos yet, but is there any video action exclusively of what goes on at the port end? Either way, keep fighting the Good Fight!!
Sorry, you are blessed Dave!!
Thank you for the very kind comment Jerry. No videos yet on loading barges, that is in the future to do. Couple of them are out there on dumping the hopper cars. Appreciate your taking the time to visit with us and write in my friend.
GREAT video Big Dave...............Why they don't replace the ties with concrete one's ?
Appreciate the nice comment Steve. Thank you very much for taking the time to watch and write in my friend. Watch this video to get
your answer on concrete:
ruclips.net/video/UtyTTijswwg/видео.html