What a brilliant summation of the possibilities of the Janko keyboard. I would love to own one of these days. A large part of what he is discussing is the something guitar players are intimately familiar with: the ease of switching and experimenting, by using identical shapes. I love Janko keyboards!
The way I understand the meaning of comments in the video is this: a musical pattern which you feel or hear in your mind is easier to perform on this type of keyboard. With this keyboard design the relationship of the keys/notes is regular and consistent, so the pattern of the music you’re thinking about - chords, thirds, fifths, maj7, however the notes flow, it is easier to go from what you are thinking or feeling to taking that pattern onto this type of keyboard.
I've often wondered why something like this isn't the standard design. Standard keyboards don't make sense from the standpoint of regular transposition of finger positions in progressions. On the other hand, they are a source of happy accidents.
How have I never heard of this type of piano? Started piano at age 4 and haven’t missed a day of some level of play for nearly 40 years now. This is piano with cheat codes. I’d be interested in using a Janko for quick improvisations and then translating them to the standard 88 keys.
@@DerHodler3000ooops, not quite, no instrument has as many different button configurations as the akkordeon. Among them are three very similar systems, called Bb-system or Bajan, finnish G-system and european C-system, all three named after the position of named notes in the first row of three basic rows on which 12 notes of the chromatic scale are positioned. This system is best for akkordeons, because it needs less space than the jankosystem, on which the 12 notes are divided in two basic rows. Both systems seem to have 6 (and sometimes 5 or 4 etc.) rows though, but the remaining rows are just repetitions of the basic 3-(bajan etc.) or 2-(janko) row system. On akkordeons you need the notes to be more clusterlike together, because of the way the instrument is held and played. So, for akkordeon the most common button systems : Bb- (also called "russian Bajan"), G-(in Finland), and C-(France)-systems offer the most potential to play extremly virtuous, but it takes much time to learn these systems in comparison to Janko´s, who made orientation most easily understandable. Janko needs more space but is much easier to learn and better for your intuition, especially, if you come from the normal pianokeys arrangement. I gathered some good explaining videos especially for you of the most common chromatic button akkordeon systems on my youtube channel "Paul von Janko zu Ehren" under the title : "bajan button akkordeon systems". The best system for akkordeons is the farmen akkordeon, because it is mirrowed and symmetrically like the human body, and it is isometric like janko and other isometric instruments like the harpejii etc.
We have the Gilmore Keyboard Festival in the United States. I wish we could have you present and talk about the Janko keyboard. I will have to see about sharing your video with someone on the committee there.
Hi Ben, Sounds great, maybe via stream in the current times :) Let me know if there‘s a possibility and I‘ll hook you up with the Protagonist. I‘m quite sure you won‘t find a living person, that knows more about Janko piano than him ;)
Ich durfte auch mal an einem Janko Piano probieren. Okay, die Tastatur war spürbar schwergängiger, aber die Logik ist unschlagbar. Ich bin ein echter Fan und würde mir eine solche Tastatur an jedem Piano wünschen.
It had issues initially but they seem to be nearly fixed by now. Another thing is that it came out at a time when piano demand was lowering. A third reason is because of cultural and infrastructural inertia一the standard layout had been the standard for a _very_ long time at that point (centuries), and such a thing is difficult to overcome in a music culture that is so big on tradition. The instrument manufacturers have a solid market and don't want to take risks, they care more about profits than the people. And most people have no clue there's anything better in the first place, some will even fight the Janko just because they don't understand it. Close-minded nonsense infects every facet of humanity, it's a constant uphill battle.
@@Persun_McPersonson Yes exactly, although I disagree because the time it was invented (1880s) was just as the largest boom in piano production was beginning in the USA (the 'golden age' of USA piano making c. 1880s-1930 or so). So the makers could have adopted it but for the reasons you mention, it wasn't. Also, I think simple human nature means that people (*beginners) are scared enough of 88 keys, despite the repeating pattern. They would then get naturally more scared of a piano with 264 keys, like this 3-row Janko (three doubled rows of two), even though again, it's all repeating patterns and duplicates to enable easier fingerings. To me the biggest issue with the Janko system is that it is not easy to 'feel' where your fingers are since each key is identical unless some small changes are made to the surface of the top of the key, which enable the fingers to 'feel' the accidentals etc. Of course I presume people with absolute pitch will have no problem with this, since they can simply hear which note is which and adjust accordingly. But those of us without absolute pitch (most of us) will struggle. That being said I do wish most pianos had this keyboard rather than the old standard one still used.
@@andrewbarrett1537 The Janko did have a certain window of popularity at the time, but the core issue of the design never really being fixed during that time definitely didn't help it keep the small amount of momentum it had. That is true and is definitely a factor, but it could be shown to these people just how easy it really is and that it only looks intimidating at first; once you connect that there aren't truly 264 keys but rather 88 keys that are split into different heights, playing becomes a bit easier. There are several problems that lie in the way of that kind of solution though, such as the layout not having been able to develop a proper playing methodology before fading into obscurity. It's harder to teach something that is easier in some ways but needs new methods developed from scratch than something that's been figured out already over the course of centuries despite certain inherently-tricky elements to its design. The road to Janko acceptance would take a ludicrous amount of time, effort, and resources-and a lot of open mindedness. Not many people have the ability or even desire to go through that trouble. This is an issue I hear a lot, and to some extent I agree. I have been told by several people who are good pianists though that someone should still be able to tell when they've gone off track using their relative pitch, but the issue I have with that reasoning is that someone playing the traditional layout is going to be using their ear _and_ the feeling of the layout simultaneously to keep track of where they are, one of those of course being lost when playing a traditional Janko. ~ I feel like some of these people don't even realize that they're partly navigating by touch, it's just become such second nature that they don't even know what you're talking about. I've also heard some musicians argue that, in general, you should be able to play any instrument mostly by ear if other kinds of musicians can, such as players of non-fretted string instruments. I see that kind of reasoning, though, as needlessly dismissive and unfair. ~ One thing that helps with this feel issue is to either texture the black keys differently from the white keys or texture each of the 12 keys differently, both things that have been done on a few Janko keyboards and MIDI keyboard prototypes made by Paul Vandervoort; it reportedly works pretty well. ---------- Overall, I feel that it's mostly a change of focus: The traditional layout is very focused on absolute position, but intervals are a jumbled mess and it has a white-key bias; whereas intervals on the Janko are much more intuitive and the layout has more immediate flexibility, but in turn it's harder to keep track of exactly where you are due to having to rely on your ear more. They both have pros and cons, the main issue being that one of these layouts was doomed to obscurity and isn't being given a chance at all. A lot of the arguments made against giving something different a chance to even just _exist_ seem to be an appeal to tradition for the sake of it, aswell as an overwhelming undertone of survivorship bias-"If so many people had to do things this one way, including me, then it must be the best way and you should have to do it too." This is the same kind of logic used against the improvements the metric system has over imperial and customary, etc. Music in many ways is still a very traditionalist realm despite all the people breaking tradition.
@@DerHodler3000 Unfortunately, RUclips doesn't have PN-functionality anymore since Google+ was discontinued. However, you can find my email-address at the bottom of my channel's about-page (only visible if you're logged in, I think) ruclips.net/user/Glitchnatorabout
J'ai une meilleure idée : pourquoi pas apprendre l'anglais ? C'est la langue universelle de nos jours. Non seulement vous n'auriez pas encore besoin des traductions au français, mais vous pouvez aussi se communiquer avec les gens dans n'importe quel pays que vous visitez. Cette vidéo est parlée en allemand mais est sous-titré en anglais, aussi comme milliers d'autres.
What a brilliant summation of the possibilities of the Janko keyboard. I would love to own one of these days. A large part of what he is discussing is the something guitar players are intimately familiar with: the ease of switching and experimenting, by using identical shapes. I love Janko keyboards!
The way I understand the meaning of comments in the video is this: a musical pattern which you feel or hear in your mind is easier to perform on this type of keyboard. With this keyboard design the relationship of the keys/notes is regular and consistent, so the pattern of the music you’re thinking about - chords, thirds, fifths, maj7, however the notes flow, it is easier to go from what you are thinking or feeling to taking that pattern onto this type of keyboard.
Exactly! It is, therefore, more intuitive!
Absolutely right :)
I've often wondered why something like this isn't the standard design. Standard keyboards don't make sense from the standpoint of regular transposition of finger positions in progressions. On the other hand, they are a source of happy accidents.
Ironically, despite the Janko keyboard's ability to simplify piano playing, it looks horrifyingly complex.
Amazing video. Amazing Janko performance. A dream to own.
I have been admiring the Janko system for years. I'd love to find an adapter for acoustic keyboard. Someday.
@@benbrown8258 same.
How have I never heard of this type of piano? Started piano at age 4 and haven’t missed a day of some level of play for nearly 40 years now. This is piano with cheat codes. I’d be interested in using a Janko for quick improvisations and then translating them to the standard 88 keys.
Great demonstration of an invention I knew not existed! Speaking of which, what J. S. Bach Invention was played at 02:26?
Sorry, not an Invention! Das Wohltemperierte Klavier, II: Präludium in a-moll (B-W-V 889).
Seems like the same concept as a chromatic button accordion, just in a different application. Cool.
Watch the mentioned Videos on the Channel of „Paul von Janko zu ehren“. He‘s THE Expert in Janko!
@@DerHodler3000ooops, not quite, no instrument has as many different button configurations as the akkordeon. Among them are three very similar systems, called Bb-system or Bajan, finnish G-system and european C-system, all three named after the position of named notes in the first row of three basic rows on which 12 notes of the chromatic scale are positioned. This system is best for akkordeons, because it needs less space than the jankosystem, on which the 12 notes are divided in two basic rows. Both systems seem to have 6 (and sometimes 5 or 4 etc.) rows though, but the remaining rows are just repetitions of the basic 3-(bajan etc.) or 2-(janko) row system. On akkordeons you need the notes to be more clusterlike together, because of the way the instrument is held and played. So, for akkordeon the most common button systems : Bb- (also called "russian Bajan"), G-(in Finland), and C-(France)-systems offer the most potential to play extremly virtuous,
but it takes much time to learn these systems in comparison to Janko´s, who made orientation most easily understandable.
Janko needs more space but is much easier to learn and better for your intuition, especially, if you come from the normal pianokeys arrangement. I gathered some good explaining videos especially for you of the most common chromatic button akkordeon systems on my youtube channel "Paul von Janko zu Ehren" under the title : "bajan button akkordeon systems". The best system for akkordeons is the farmen akkordeon, because it is mirrowed and symmetrically like the human body, and it is isometric like janko and other isometric instruments like the harpejii etc.
We have the Gilmore Keyboard Festival in the United States. I wish we could have you present and talk about the Janko keyboard. I will have to see about sharing your video with someone on the committee there.
Hi Ben,
Sounds great, maybe via stream in the current times :) Let me know if there‘s a possibility and I‘ll hook you up with the Protagonist.
I‘m quite sure you won‘t find a living person, that knows more about Janko piano than him ;)
Thank you for this wonderful video
Thanks for appreciating! :)
@@DerHodler3000 ❤❤❤
Ich durfte auch mal an einem Janko Piano probieren. Okay, die Tastatur war spürbar schwergängiger, aber die Logik ist unschlagbar. Ich bin ein echter Fan und würde mir eine solche Tastatur an jedem Piano wünschen.
Bravo !
Janko: giving the functionality of playing guitar to pianos.
NICE!
BEAUTIFUL EXPLANATION!
GRATE INVENTION
CHEERS :)
This is why I just bought a 6/6 cross-strung harp. No more fighting. No more being on the knife's edge.
Why this thing isn't the standard is beyond me...
It had issues initially but they seem to be nearly fixed by now. Another thing is that it came out at a time when piano demand was lowering. A third reason is because of cultural and infrastructural inertia一the standard layout had been the standard for a _very_ long time at that point (centuries), and such a thing is difficult to overcome in a music culture that is so big on tradition. The instrument manufacturers have a solid market and don't want to take risks, they care more about profits than the people. And most people have no clue there's anything better in the first place, some will even fight the Janko just because they don't understand it. Close-minded nonsense infects every facet of humanity, it's a constant uphill battle.
@@Persun_McPersonson Yes exactly, although I disagree because the time it was invented (1880s) was just as the largest boom in piano production was beginning in the USA (the 'golden age' of USA piano making c. 1880s-1930 or so). So the makers could have adopted it but for the reasons you mention, it wasn't.
Also, I think simple human nature means that people (*beginners) are scared enough of 88 keys, despite the repeating pattern. They would then get naturally more scared of a piano with 264 keys, like this 3-row Janko (three doubled rows of two), even though again, it's all repeating patterns and duplicates to enable easier fingerings.
To me the biggest issue with the Janko system is that it is not easy to 'feel' where your fingers are since each key is identical unless some small changes are made to the surface of the top of the key, which enable the fingers to 'feel' the accidentals etc.
Of course I presume people with absolute pitch will have no problem with this, since they can simply hear which note is which and adjust accordingly. But those of us without absolute pitch (most of us) will struggle.
That being said I do wish most pianos had this keyboard rather than the old standard one still used.
@@andrewbarrett1537
The Janko did have a certain window of popularity at the time, but the core issue of the design never really being fixed during that time definitely didn't help it keep the small amount of momentum it had.
That is true and is definitely a factor, but it could be shown to these people just how easy it really is and that it only looks intimidating at first; once you connect that there aren't truly 264 keys but rather 88 keys that are split into different heights, playing becomes a bit easier. There are several problems that lie in the way of that kind of solution though, such as the layout not having been able to develop a proper playing methodology before fading into obscurity. It's harder to teach something that is easier in some ways but needs new methods developed from scratch than something that's been figured out already over the course of centuries despite certain inherently-tricky elements to its design. The road to Janko acceptance would take a ludicrous amount of time, effort, and resources-and a lot of open mindedness. Not many people have the ability or even desire to go through that trouble.
This is an issue I hear a lot, and to some extent I agree. I have been told by several people who are good pianists though that someone should still be able to tell when they've gone off track using their relative pitch, but the issue I have with that reasoning is that someone playing the traditional layout is going to be using their ear _and_ the feeling of the layout simultaneously to keep track of where they are, one of those of course being lost when playing a traditional Janko.
~
I feel like some of these people don't even realize that they're partly navigating by touch, it's just become such second nature that they don't even know what you're talking about. I've also heard some musicians argue that, in general, you should be able to play any instrument mostly by ear if other kinds of musicians can, such as players of non-fretted string instruments. I see that kind of reasoning, though, as needlessly dismissive and unfair.
~
One thing that helps with this feel issue is to either texture the black keys differently from the white keys or texture each of the 12 keys differently, both things that have been done on a few Janko keyboards and MIDI keyboard prototypes made by Paul Vandervoort; it reportedly works pretty well.
----------
Overall, I feel that it's mostly a change of focus: The traditional layout is very focused on absolute position, but intervals are a jumbled mess and it has a white-key bias; whereas intervals on the Janko are much more intuitive and the layout has more immediate flexibility, but in turn it's harder to keep track of exactly where you are due to having to rely on your ear more. They both have pros and cons, the main issue being that one of these layouts was doomed to obscurity and isn't being given a chance at all.
A lot of the arguments made against giving something different a chance to even just _exist_ seem to be an appeal to tradition for the sake of it, aswell as an overwhelming undertone of survivorship bias-"If so many people had to do things this one way, including me, then it must be the best way and you should have to do it too." This is the same kind of logic used against the improvements the metric system has over imperial and customary, etc. Music in many ways is still a very traditionalist realm despite all the people breaking tradition.
Ich bin sooooo neidisch. Dass sich diese Tastatur nicht durchgesetzt hat, ist unbegreiflich.
Ja, sehr schade …
yea, I will just use the transpose button...
Thank you for uploading this video, it's very motivating!
Do you kow how one may contact Detlef Graul? I tried searching for him online, to no avail.
Hey, send me your email via pn.
@@DerHodler3000 Unfortunately, RUclips doesn't have PN-functionality anymore since Google+ was discontinued.
However, you can find my email-address at the bottom of my channel's about-page (only visible if you're logged in, I think) ruclips.net/user/Glitchnatorabout
Like Harpeji, but way before! 🙂👍🏻
Are 3 rows enough? Why more than 3 rows?
wunderfull, 😅
peut-on avoir une traduction?
François Parisi I‘m very sorry, this isn‘t possible for us. Let me know if you have any specific questions about the content of the Film.
J'ai une meilleure idée : pourquoi pas apprendre l'anglais ? C'est la langue universelle de nos jours. Non seulement vous n'auriez pas encore besoin des traductions au français, mais vous pouvez aussi se communiquer avec les gens dans n'importe quel pays que vous visitez. Cette vidéo est parlée en allemand mais est sous-titré en anglais, aussi comme milliers d'autres.
I understand nothing.
That explains that😂