Agreed. I did my MDiv after being a pastor for over a decade, and I was shocked how little practical wisdom was shared as part of training for pastors in a formal institution. I was also shocked how few of the professors teaching pastors how to be pastors had ever actually been pastors themselves, or had any recent relevant experience to speak from. Way too many academics teaching from hypothetical perspectives on theological doctrinal matters that have zero real church world application. I will say that the few pastors that were teaching in seminary were by far the most impactful to all the students learning how to be pastors, and I am greatly appreciative of them and their shepherding of growing shepherds. Those were the ones who truly were pastors of pastors. I have to say in the past 20+ years of pastoring, I have yet to use terms like supralaprianism while having a conversation with a member of the community our church is trying to reach, or even with a church member other than the one time I spoke with a guy who was himself a seminary professor. I have yet to use Greek sentence diagramming in a practical conversation about getting to know Jesus. I have yet to refer any church member to Odin's Systematic Theology to clarify a dispute they were having with their teenager. Also... seminary did not teach me out to create, adjust, balance, or present a budget for a church. Seminary did not teach me how to go through the process of getting a Conditional Use Permit to be able to use a facility for our church. Seminary did not teach me how to apply for a 501c3 for a new church plant. Seminary did not teach me how to deal with legalistic, judgmental heresy hunters entrenched in the church, or how to teach them to grow up. Seminary did not teach me how to deal with narcissistic, toxic leaders. Seminary did not teach me how to protect my family from the hurtful things that church members do to them and say about them. Seminary did not teach me how to make healthy transitions out from a ministry when we had that Mars HIlls Church experience happen to us and the toxic leaders lied about me to the church as they threw us under the bus. Seminary did not teach me how to be a bivocational pastor or how to translate my pastoral experiences into secular knowledge, skills and abilities so that I could provide for my family when the church could not (or would not). I was also not taught how to deal with the emotional aspect or aftercare/self care necessary to remain healthy as one who routinely delved into deeply emotional situations, whether doing hospice or traumatic incident visitations, counseling, church conflict & drama... I was not taught how to engage with people of differing faith backgrounds, differing personality inventories, differing levels of emotional maturity... So many things that need to be addressed in order to properly prepare a person to shepherd a church. Seminary needs to be completely disassembled and rethought. It's great to have a solid basis in being able to understand Scripture in the original languages, and know the fundamentals of how to get wisdom and insight from reference sources, how to test them for errancy and accuracy, but the practical matters of real world pastoral life are not being taught. They need to be.
Now this make me don’t even want to go anymore. I have a degree and social work and I understand what you’re talking about. It’s knowledge based but not application and practical based.
Thank you for sharing
Agreed. I did my MDiv after being a pastor for over a decade, and I was shocked how little practical wisdom was shared as part of training for pastors in a formal institution. I was also shocked how few of the professors teaching pastors how to be pastors had ever actually been pastors themselves, or had any recent relevant experience to speak from. Way too many academics teaching from hypothetical perspectives on theological doctrinal matters that have zero real church world application. I will say that the few pastors that were teaching in seminary were by far the most impactful to all the students learning how to be pastors, and I am greatly appreciative of them and their shepherding of growing shepherds. Those were the ones who truly were pastors of pastors.
I have to say in the past 20+ years of pastoring, I have yet to use terms like supralaprianism while having a conversation with a member of the community our church is trying to reach, or even with a church member other than the one time I spoke with a guy who was himself a seminary professor. I have yet to use Greek sentence diagramming in a practical conversation about getting to know Jesus. I have yet to refer any church member to Odin's Systematic Theology to clarify a dispute they were having with their teenager.
Also... seminary did not teach me out to create, adjust, balance, or present a budget for a church.
Seminary did not teach me how to go through the process of getting a Conditional Use Permit to be able to use a facility for our church.
Seminary did not teach me how to apply for a 501c3 for a new church plant.
Seminary did not teach me how to deal with legalistic, judgmental heresy hunters entrenched in the church, or how to teach them to grow up.
Seminary did not teach me how to deal with narcissistic, toxic leaders.
Seminary did not teach me how to protect my family from the hurtful things that church members do to them and say about them.
Seminary did not teach me how to make healthy transitions out from a ministry when we had that Mars HIlls Church experience happen to us and the toxic leaders lied about me to the church as they threw us under the bus.
Seminary did not teach me how to be a bivocational pastor or how to translate my pastoral experiences into secular knowledge, skills and abilities so that I could provide for my family when the church could not (or would not).
I was also not taught how to deal with the emotional aspect or aftercare/self care necessary to remain healthy as one who routinely delved into deeply emotional situations, whether doing hospice or traumatic incident visitations, counseling, church conflict & drama...
I was not taught how to engage with people of differing faith backgrounds, differing personality inventories, differing levels of emotional maturity...
So many things that need to be addressed in order to properly prepare a person to shepherd a church. Seminary needs to be completely disassembled and rethought.
It's great to have a solid basis in being able to understand Scripture in the original languages, and know the fundamentals of how to get wisdom and insight from reference sources, how to test them for errancy and accuracy, but the practical matters of real world pastoral life are not being taught. They need to be.
Amen.
This is a wholesome comment. Thank you for sharing so much wisdom
I'm a final-year theology student and I agree with this
Now this make me don’t even want to go anymore. I have a degree and social work and I understand what you’re talking about. It’s knowledge based but not application and practical based.
Your insight is valuable, greatly appreciated! Thank you for sharing
Go JZ go!!