Episode 27 (October 9), "Where Angels Fear to Swim"
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2023
- Welp, armageddon is coming. Again. At least according to people who are watching for signs in the Euphrates river.
This week the internet is taking biblical stories and really running with them, and we're here to check the facts and do the math. First, it's the great escape as angels attempt to free themselves from from their fluvial Alcatraz. Then, we fee-fi-fo-fum our way through the story of the Nephilim. Did divine beings really have sex with human women? What did they have to talk about?
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“Where can you find horses with lion heads in this day and age?” Umm may I introduce you to 2010 neon deviant art ocs?
THIS is the content we want. We need the other content too, and it’s enjoyed immensely, but “those are indeed some scary sounds,” is what my heart truly desires 😂😂😂😂😂
I loved Dan's pronouncing giants in Greek as if it were Spanish
I like listening to these conversations as I work. I learn a lot
You show me a River or forest that screams and moans and I’ll show you my new horror show theme park. I’ll buy that River and open “Mike’s Halloween Land” like a responsible capitalist 😂
I had always taken that to be understood as:
The nefillim were on the earth when god said my spirit blah blah blah, and also after, when the sons of god took the daughters of man blah blah blah
Your podcasts are the perfect storm of knowledge, insight and humor. Keep 'em comin'!
BTW, where can I buy Data Over Dogma merch? I would love to wear a D>D shirt and freak out my Christian neighbors. 🤣
It’s early in the morning, and I dozed off during the first part of the video. And in my dreams they were talking about Ragnarök. 😀
Edit: also some elements in the second part. Giants are apparently an important element in our stories. The Titans, the LOTR, sagas and fairytales.
I remember listening to video with scarey sounds of angels under Euphrates and I recognized one of the sounds as one used quite often on sci- fi TV shows in the 1960s.
I don't remember right now which show but it was down to a specific program.
Probably Lost In Space
" how does that have to do with humanity?" (Nephilim cohabitation with women and having children )
You moron, if you quit making jokes about it and READ the Bible you might find that's the purpose they are written about in the first place.
This was great episode!
How did the story in the Bible become so complicated? In an earlier version of the flood, god just was irritated that the people made so much noise he couldn’t sleep.
Thanks! That was fun. I grew up steeped in Revelation studies and End Times (what a waste). I could never understand where all the bad angels came from. We didn't have Enoch in the mix. And that verse about Nephilim blew my mind when i was a kid reading Genesis for the 100th time. What?! We're just gonna skip over that? Now, I've read Enoch and I'm mad again at my early religious education cuz that book rocks.
That little chunk of text at the start of Gen 6 is like a sharp pebble in your shoe. It starts one down quite the rabbit trail.
The angels being male is interesting in light of other mythologies (or even the virgin birth of Jesus). It's always male deities impregnating human females, never human males impregnating female deities. Where female deities have children, they're always sired by male deities. Seems to reflect the mating norms of strictly hierarchical societies, where higher-caste males elevate the lower-caste females by mating with them, but lower-caste males bring higher-caste females low by mating with them. Also with the much-vaunted inclusion of a couple of originally non-Hebrew characters in the post-Jacob alleged bloodline of Jesus, but only female ones.
When you say "in light of other mythologies", are you suggesting that other mythologies do not have 'human male to female deity' mating? Because that's not the case. -- Regarding Ancient Greek/Roman mythology, there's a few, such as Achilles (as in the heel guy) was the son of a human man and female nymph (nature deity). And, Aeneas, a Trojan hero, who was the son of Aphrodite/Venus and a human man (Anchises).
So it's not accurate to suggest that it was "always male deities impregnating human females" in other mythologies. It may have been more common, but certainly wasn't always the case, as those two examples are of well known and culturally significant figures that were the offspring of female deities and human men.
@@grimslade0 You are correct. It is much rarer, but it is not unknown in mythologies. Indeed, I also later recalled an example from Hindu mythology (Bhishma, born of the river goddess Ganga and the human king Shantanu).
Many, perhaps most or all of those posting videos about the end times ACTUALLY believe what they are posting. For them it is about informing others so others might be moved to "follow Christ". In their mind they are helping people...just as in your mind that you are helping others.
Thanks for your work, Dans!
****I have a few follow up thoughts:
- Considering the Near-East literary style of layering, it is completely reasonable to presume that the accounts in Rev. 9 & 16 are the same account merely told in 3 overlapping layers (trumps/seals/bowls) all ending in the same event.
- These Angels according to the OT are the "Spirits before the throne" of God. I feel it is NOT univocality and more so the writer simply using the apocalyptic genre from the OT to add relatability to the NT era writing he made.
5 planets, 1 sun, 1 moon = total 7
@@willempasterkamp862 What is the context of this & are you presuming the ancients had understanding & ability to view these celestial bodies prior to the tech to do so?
@@CoachBriceWilliams All visible with the naked eye no tech needed, planets seem to be stars but follow their own path around the sun. All stars orbit around the polar star ; in fact stars stood still and it is earth rotaing what apparently makes the stars move. The ancients saw the earth as non moving and the centre of the universe. Because they could not figure out the planets were moving around the sun in eclipses all of them were strange dwellers (rebels).
@willempasterkamp862 Yeah, in that case, the academic community would completely dismiss your initial claim. The ancient communities would have no means of differentiating with certainty any of these things. Considering how many of them believed they were ancestors looking down on them, this is all odd speculation at best. I believe I'd Dan read RUclips comments, he'd say that there is "no data" to support the claim. Now if YOU believe it, have fun, but as a science & religion professor, certainly not.
Thus ancient people didn't notice there were these things in the sky , professor ?
Why can't Dan ever say, "Yes, those fallen angels are going to pile out of the Euphrates"
As far as 6 million russian calvary, right now they almost would have to be horses, the russians dont have any more tanks or medium armored troop vehicles left. But there woukd be six-million rider less horses with Iranian made robots on their backs.
Is there something like the New Oxford Annotated Bible for books included in some Christian traditions' canons but not most, like the books of Enoch, Jubilees, Laodiceans, etc.?
“We’re gonna cap it at 120”
Can you elaborate on name Azazel?
I’m a surviving Nephilim AMA
The NEPHILIM.
Sounds like a good title for anime. Or Netflix series
A Manga by that name came out in 2005 😂
That sounds like it could be a good CW show
I know it’s hard sometimes to have compassion for the stupid. Just remind yourself that your dogs or cats likely believe all manner of ridiculous things about the nature of existence, and they are still big sweeties 🤗
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!
I had considered the idea of nefillim meaning the dead, but was unable to find anything online to be definitive with it
I always found it interesting that the text did NOT say ha'nefilim 'ol-'aretz.....rather saying ba'aretz "in the earth" as opposed to "over/on the earth".....yes, I am aware that the best can be used for "on"....but this is yet another case of the author CAUSING confusion....why use something that can be so misunderstood?
Sounds like the OT’s big foot 😂
So, I have to draw issue here
Sadly I am at work and can't look up the verses off the top of my head....but I do recall there being a couple place where there is clearly a plurality of.....entities, but the verb is singular....most commonly with the children of Israel....but there are others
So, a singular verb is not a true indicator of a single entity or a plurality of entities
That being said....additionally for the audience as I am sure Dan knows this, being what I think he was elluding to:
Elohim, Mitzraim, Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim, and Caphtorim.
All of these words are in the plural, and all but Elohim ARE names of individuals, referenced in Genesis 10
So, sadly, textual context is difficult.....neither the nature of the noun, plural or singular....nor the verb context is really enough to properly determine what the author was meaning. An example of this possible confusion is Genesis 3:24, concerning Ha'Cheruvim....which is generally understood as two angels which are noted as being cherubim. But infact this could very well be a single entity, despite it being plural....though, not likely a single entity
I think I even remember a place where a plural verb is used for a single entity
But there IS a case where a single entity is being regarded as plural......Moses in Exodus 7:1, the Lord is calling Moses "Elohim".....not as a name, but as a position, a title
So alot of this just serves to cause confusion
RE: new content emerging about giants
Have you seen the "Answers to Giant Questions" podcast?
Question: any information or books or can you review the idea that eve didnt "eat an apple" but that the tree was actually satan and satan raped even and produced cane? lol
I’ve wondered if Eve had sex with a fallen angel and convinced Adam to do the same.
Look up William Branham history org and serpent seed doctrine - There is a website and also comes up int YT content channel 'leaving the message' . The doctrine claims the serpent was satan and 'seduced' Eve, and Cain was the result making him the evil bloodline and that's why killed Adam's son Abel etc. I don't know if they are the only ones using that idea (I vaguely think of Moonies??) But there was certainly a trend, linked to KKK, British Israelism/Christian Identity/ christian nationalism/ manifest destiny ( all the 'good stuff' 🙄) that claim a serpent seed bloodline, ie satan's bloodline. Add that into the prior heresy linking the curse of Cain (and post flood of Ham) to skin colour..... Well it leads to very very horrific places.
There are traditions of female angels, but not until, I think, the middle ages, and if memory serves me, they are usually referenced as angels of temptation....or, females satans
I don't think that it is until the 1900's where guardian angels start getting depicted as females....but I could be wrong
I blame nativity plays for female angels - once the shepherd role has been given to the boys, Apart from Mary a lack of girls parts so they ended up as the angels.
Not sure before that - I recall learning angels not having gender, yet in Bible they do tend to turn up male presenting. Now the big question is when did they become cherubs? And was that linked to infant mortality and 'going to heaven to become angels' thinking?
Hi Dr. McClellan. Do you know if Dr. Deane Galbraith ( University of Otago ) will be publishing a monograph on giants? A few years ago, he answered my email saying he would, but he no longer answered me recently. Or, do you know of another reputable scholar who has published a monograph on giants?
It almost seems like a waste of time to respond to that guys video. 🙄
I only really know about Fields of the Nephilim, and they were all within the normal range of human height.
Second...segundo...troisieme
I WAS RAPTURED!!!..........I came back
And yes, me saying that IS a parody of:
SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!!!......I got better
First
Ok, So lets do this right here. When biblical scholars talk about near eastern influences and angels they talk around the problem but they very seldomly address the problem itself. Genesis is steeped in eastern belief, the old gods, lower mesopotamia. The questioned has to be asked why Israel, only a few hundred miles from egypt, and in the earliest times under the control of Egypt is obsessed with lower mesopotamia, 1000+ walking miles away.
And so once we state this we then can get into the problem of the foundational text of the bible. The problem is in the name Isra'el. El is a derivative of an easter god, in fact the highest god.
1. Eastern religion essentially starts in Eridu (Yes there is a site 10 years older but it dissappears). Its gods were essentially water sprites.
2. As the gulf/riparian settlement zone grows, the gods reflect increasing organization (confederations of villages)
3. The copper age requires trade for lower mesopotamian, this requires facilities for trade, development of primitive city states, and gods that behave more like chieftans.
4. The bronze age, for all intents and purposes begins at the confluence of Jemdet Nasr sphere of influence (south of lake van) and Kura Araxes civilization. Here we see the rise of Uruk, the powerful water god is now replaced at top with a far-looking sky god (Anu) and a confederation of high priests and kings.
5. The civil period begins in Uruk and we see in this period an effort to civilize the euphrates river. The increasingly stratified organization of high king, kings of major city states, then villages around city states, then farming centers around villages. The hierarchy, pyramid, of the gods reflects the authority hierarchy. Prior to the dynastic period this was much more about who controlled temples than who was king (very important if you want to understand jewish thought). Remember the pharoahs believed themselves to be gods, whereas in meso a king that posed as a god is often grounds for a civil war.
6. The dynastic period and corruption of the temple authority. Anu is kicked out of his temple, Enlil- the supreme god-, is essentially replaced by his granddaughter.
7. The LBAC and the rise of the independent trading city states (e.g. phonecia, Israel, Judea)
8. The reemergence of the dynastic super powers, and importantly the internal corruption that preludes their fall.
Ok, So what is happening here, exactly. Mesopotamia "sees" the rise of divine heirarchies, but dynastic politics begins wacking at supreme authorities, replacing the "lord of heaven" first with the "whore of Babylon", Ishtar, and then Asshur and Marduk. While the Uruk period lasted from 4200 BCE until 2400 BCE, each of the successive dynasties rapidly crumbled. The longest lived of these was the kassite dynasty, which simply was a administrative empire that just held the religious status quo, it was carved away by Sealand and other wrenching of territory during the Amarna. Moreover, and very important, during the old babylonian period there was a proliferation of gods in mesopotamia and areas under its influences, between 500 and 3000 gods. In other words, for this pantheon to grow, the stratiography of heaven needed to become more layered, thrse layers persist in the bible. This is the late bronze age.
And then the LBAC happens. So lets think about this instead of waving hands in the air and pretending we dont know anything. Egypt controlled all but the most northern parts of the levant. A confederation of marginal tribesmen challenged that authority. Not just one but many eastern confederations were challenging Egypt's authority.
Why? Trade. Who controls Judea and the plains to the east controls the most important trade route between three continents, not to mention Wine, Olive oil, Copper, Dyes, etc that are generated.
And so Isra'el is a identity that roots itself in El, and old mountain god, kicked out of his temple in Uruk, and watches over traders and shepherds. "He" seeks to regain authority in a confederation (IOW, The confederation seeks recognition by the mesopotamian cities). However what is also going on during the LBAC is that many gods died! Gods died when people stopped following them. In the aftermath of this clearing of ranks Dynastic gods, Asshur and Marduk, assummed the names or traits of other gods, but those gods held in common the reverence for one god, Enki (Ea, Ia, Yah). What is Bethlehem, Beth Lahmi, the guardian of Enki. Where did the Apkallu (Sages of Enki) legendarily come from - Canaan and the red Sea. Who has ties to this revered being. . . Eridu and Yehudah.
And so now we get a glimpse why the Yahudah centric Israelite belief system of the Yahudite period is looking eastward at the beginning of mesopotamian civilation.
But that does not explain the demotion of gods. The hebrew bible tells us exactly why the gods fell. We just need a little history to make sense of this. Assyria rose quickly in the 9th centery and powered itself into Anatolia. The various city states of Akkad, Sumer, Phonecia, Syro-Anatolian, Israel and Judea knew they were next. Babylon was the major contender, however at the time, loose chaldean tribes controlled power largely outside the major cities. While the Syrian states needed to rise to their defense, babylon failed to act (the old gods slept). While Assyrias defeat of the united city states was lackluster, it gave Assyria time to pick off city states on by one. It tore Israel in half, and came back later to finish it of. Isra'el's eastward leaning loyalties were to no avail. The gods of the east did not come to its defense, those gods had fallen, then Asshur fell, the Yahweh fell, then Marduk fell. But Yahweh had a trivial advantage. Yahweh was not just a god of Jerusalem, it was a god of Yathrib, Yemen, and Elephantine Egypt. Moreover Yahweh is not tied to the east, it had been chimerized with other Arabian gods.
And so the idea is that all the gods fell, but Yahweh managed to pick himself up, whereas as the other eastern gods successively vanished and were syncretized with exterior beliefs until they essentially dissappeared. And in fact in the babylonian literature we begin to see that some of the older gods are becoming underworld gods. People were preferring the localized gods of major households and the priesthoods of major temples were, relatively speaking, losing authority.
It all boils down to this. The old gods were powerful when their priesthoods controlled the show. During the dynastic period priesthoods, relatively speaking lost power. During the LBAC there was genralized collapse, during the Iron age dynastic gods usurped power. Isra'el tied itself to an eastern trading system. That system was crushed by Assyria who was crushed by babylon who was crushed by Cyrus/Persia. The system of the old gods was crushed, their priesthoods lost power. While the bible keeps the system of heavily stratified heavens, it demotes entities in that stratiography as previous Near Eastern dynastic beliefs did. It placed these demoted sprites into a canaanite system of messengers, in fact borrowing directly a couple of canaanite angels, outright.
This sounds interesting, I´m by no means an expert but I´m very much intrigued by this subject. Do you have any book recommendations that point to a theory similar as yours? I also would like to see Dan interacting with the comments, especially when well presented as yours.
@@user-xr6ib8nn3c My point in making these is to "un tik-tok" the style of presentation where someone makes a statement, another person comes in and throws a few words around to disprove them, you see a big "poof" of propoganda and the viewer is left with incomplete or information dangling in thin air as if its cause just popped into existence. I see this right now in the palestinuan cinflict, depending on whose side you are on, you frame the story within certain dates. The one thing we can be certain of, if someone is trying to get you to take a side, there is a 99.99% chance they are telling you mostly lies. So how do we separate polemics to find the hidden truths.
Philosophically people are for god because of salvation, they are against god because of suffering but both of these are polemics based on points of view, one group opines that a powerful god of course is going to save them, and another group argues that the god has no power because of suffering. Both groups misunderstand what "god" is or how gods came to be. And the only way to how this is is too keep looking deeper into the past, to uncover the how the fathers of the fathers saw their gods, lords, and competitors.
"Now listen, their hands are destructive and their features are those of monkeys; (An Amorite) is one who eats what (the Moon-god) Nanna forbids and does not show reverence. They never stop roaming about ..., they are an abomination to the gods’ dwellings. Their ideas are confused; they cause only disturbance. (The Amorite) is clothed in sack-leather ... , lives in a tent, exposed to wind and rain, and cannot properly recite prayers. He lives in the mountains and ignores the places of gods, digs up truffles in the foothills, does not know how to bend the knee (in prayer), and eats raw flesh. "
We could change a few words and put it into the narrative of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. But we should note that the Amorites went on to create the largest empire the world had seen of Akkad and Sumer. These stories are plucked right out of wikipedia.
Whether or not one believes in god, a person should understand the beauty in the world. I mean the moon and Mars are beautiful places as long as you don't have to live there. The key issue I have is when people try to paint reality in something it is not. We are born and we die not because we are cursed, if anything its a blessing. If one day we stopped dying and noone was born, say 14,000 years ago, we would still think a mother earth sprite created every thing. Our death are neccesary for our social evolution and thats the beauty in the system, its not a bug, its a feature.
And so I want to repaint this story for people and repaint the bible into that story. I dont want people to hate the text, but see the beauty of humanity and the world through the text.
I was in an argument the other day with a person who thinks the Enuma Elis is the end-all original source of creation in mesopotamia. WG Lambert does not say this in his book on Mesoptamian Creation Myths, but polemicist against the bible want this to be true, But essentially the Enuma Elis is doing the same thing the genesis story is doing, its taking stories that are out there, painting their god into the story and painting other gods out. And while its not clear the diversity of these earlier stories, we get a sense of these through cylinder seals and pieces of literature that never became popular.
It is through those stories we see a line of succession and insertions, harmonizations, just like the bible. Absu and his wife, Nammu the creater, Enki from parthenogenis, the other gods as the Eridu theogeny. Nammu as the wife of Anu in the Uruk theogeny, and Enki his son. The wife of Enki, Ninhursag in the Eridu, becomes Anu's wife and mother of the Anunnuki. We can see from this the competition of ideas about gods emerging from prehistory. Then Babylon needs Marduk to rise.
We should not reject the variation, we should embrace it. We should not scorn competition, we should highlight it and applaud it.
My point is this, you take the sword of the tongue and plunge it through your opponents heart, your audience learns next to nothing, particularly about the bible. Look up at the quoted paragraph, its telling a tale about its writer. The god of Ur has power, there is a certain way to pray, there is a certain way to think, there is a certain way to eat, sleep, and a certain person to marry. Structural conformation is the message.
You take the bible and open its pages on a canvass, then get the other texts from the period, you open them up, the Enuma Elis, the Assyrian version, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the legends of Danel and of Herecles and all the other literature and you no longer have 2 gladiators battling in a ring, but you have a painting showing the beauty of the human mind to inspire and create.
When you dig deep into christianity, dig, dig, dig all the way to the bottom you find a hidden reality, it was stark: asceticism, devotion, pious. And you realize why Paul felt it necessary to modify the message leaving the digger with a choice, stick with the message, follow the original, create your own variant or leave. But there is a kernal of something there that Elaine Pagels points out, this esoteric separation from institutions is also there. Its a stumbling block to those who need structured authority, but its a point of emancipation, however flawed that we should be in a place to look at the landscape of belief and it can be mystical if one wants. You do not need to negotiate with a text if you are just another point on the canvass in which the text lies.
When you get back to the bible and genesis chapter twelve and onward you are confronted again with the conflict, was abram representative of a liberator or a colonizer. And this goes back to why everywhere the high god is the sky god. In mesopotamia in the beginning that the first gods were not sky gods, and so how did the heavenly revolution come to be. The answer, at least to me, is that in the eneolithic you are nothing if you dont have copper and if you dont have copper you need to trade. And so the Abram figure, the sojourner is a representative of a percieved need. And through this lens we inspect the archaeology and we find that there were winners (Hazor, Hamon, Gad), losers (Ai, Jericho), and children (Urushalim, Beth Lahmu, Beth Anath). And so we see that Abram metaphor is for both compromise, conquest and creation, his goals are a tumbled mess of conflict, letting his wife out as a concubine, a metaphor for cracking into the egyptian system of trade.
We did not become civilized in a cradle of cushy down pillows. The reach of the logos came out of the mouths of traders and the armies that bouyed them. It was elegant at times, when the priests of El watched over the trade routes, and it was ugly like "Sodom and gomorrah" and the reason it was ugly was to create fear. This is how western civilization was built, and the levant benefitted from this, despite appearances, the Phonecians were the first empire of the mediterranean, but at other times they were trampled under the feet of fighting bulls.
So we are entangled in the metaphors of the bible and these ancient texts, they are the mother and the father its by inserting ourselves in the canvass painted of literature that the beauty and meaning of these text can be seen. Explore. Dont take my word, take the nouns and explore them see where they go. Who is Absu, who is his wife, who is Nammu, who is Enki, who is his guardian. When beth precedes the name of a god what does it mean. When two gods of different names carry the same cunieform signs, what does it mean. Who is Marduk, when did he come to be, Where is Eridu, when did it come to be. Where is babylon, when did it come to be. Who are the Hitties and Luwians, where did they come from, what became of their progenitors. What you will find in doing your own research is that your evolving narrative will conflict with the widely painted picture of the past, rightly so.
@@Darisiabgal7573 This is awesome, I truly appreciate you for putting this original, well thought and insightful comment together. Is there any literature you could point me to for someone who aspires to get a better grasp of all these topics?
@@Darisiabgal7573I also am interested in this. Do you have any book titles for us? The comments section isn't good for me picking up dense info
@@hive_indicator318
Topics that you can research starting with wiki.
Gobekle Tepe
Hasunna Culture
Halaf Culture
Tell Shemshara
Sammarah Culture
Ubaid Culture
Ubaid - 0
Ubaid - Eridu
Ubaid 3 - 4
Uruk period (Culture)
Jemdet Nasr
Ur, predynastic
Bad Tibera
Jiroft Culture.
That will get you started.
Climate change?
Yes. What’s your question, exactly?
9:49 somebody's constipated
❤ Jesus power ❤ warning it is intense. 😅 only last 3 days
First. lol
damn it
Love Dan M. but I'm just not sure what purpose the other Dan serves. Doesn't seem like a bad guy but is he just there to ask Dan M. questions so Dan M. can't ask himself?
He serves as interviewer and a normie. He doesn't have any background in the biblical criticism.
The Bible reads like a "how to be just like Hitler" handbook.
This idea of angels having sex with human women have anything to do with the description of god having sex with Mary?
It's like watching Trekkies talking about the stories as if they're real. Such a waste of time and effort.
To a lot of people this stuff is very real, so clearing up misinformation about this literature is quite important
@zakstarkiller1850 It is to Trekkies, too.
@@cliveadams7629 Whatever helps you sleep at night
Some of us find history, ancient literature, and mythology interesting topics, and enlightening as to certain aspects of human psychology and culture, regardless of whether or not we believe they’re historically accurate. Comments like yours make you sound almost as anti-intellectual and locked into a narrow worldview as some fundies.
MY born and raised *Chinese wife* who knew how to use her tongue, to tickle my ear 👂
----
One day she wrote the meaning of my name
---- ON a napkin...
*KING* 👑 SHE WROTE ✍️ in the language of her *NATIVE LAND*
----
Still in my possession, With *CRYPTIC ⚔️ SWORDS* in each of my hands
----
*KING* 👑 of a different kind, of the *CRYPTIC* pen 🖊️
Vicious, and mortal wounds they cause.
----
To the *FOOLISHNESS* of all the *IGNORANCE* of prideful men.
-----
From out of the *RIVER OF DROSS*
----
*STREAMS* of the *DREAMS* of the battles the *DRAGONS LOST*
-----
*GARY WAYNE*
----
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
----
THE *MEN OF RENOWN* - *GENESIS* 6 >>>
FROM THE *MEN OF RENOWN NUMBERS* 16:2????
----
AND THE *MEN OF RENOWN* ISAIAH 14:20 ?????
----
*HERDSMAN III OLD 🗝️ III*
are you having a stroke? I am seriously concerned.
Sounds like your doin the same with your climate change comments. Sorry dan. Our climate always changes
Oopsie, you said something super dumb!