Stossel: Supreme Court Ruling May Crush Unions
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Monday the Supreme Court hears a case that could block unions from forcing government workers to pay union dues.
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Monday the Supreme Court hears a case that could block unions from forcing government workers to pay union dues.
John Stossel was forced to pay union dues when he worked at CBS and ABC, and he says government workers should have the right to choose whether to pay. Of course, that would weaken the power of union leaders.
Teacher Rebecca Friedrichs says their power should be weakened. She tried to fight people she calls "bullies" at the California Teachers Association. She was trying to save some teachers' jobs during the last recession by getting all her fellow teachers to take a slight pay cut.
She says the teachers were willing to take a cut-to save jobs, but the union would not even allow her to survey the other teachers.
So Rebecca decided she no longer wanted to pay union dues. She sued the California Teachers Association and her case went all the way to the Supreme Court. Observers said Rebecca was likely to win.
But then Justice Antonin Scalia, who would likely have ruled in her favor, died. Without him, the case tied 4-4; that meant the union won.
Now, Scalia has been replaced by Neil Gorsuch, and the court will hear a nearly identical case next week brought by plaintiff Mark Janus.
The union being sued is America's largest government workers' union, The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME). Their Director of Research and Collective Bargaining, Steven Kreisberg, tells John Stossel it would be unfair for the court to make public-sector unions like his "right to work."
Kreisberg suggests that the plaintiff "simply doesn't want to pay [dues] because he'd like to get those [union] services for free."
Stossel asked Friedrichs about that. Her answer: "I never asked for [union] representation...I don't see it as a benefit...the benefits aren't worth the moral costs."
By "the moral costs," she means the harm in supporting a union that she thinks harms kids and teachers with their bad policies.
Stossel says he hopes the court will make government-worker unions "right to work," because forcing someone to pay for something they don't want is tyranny.
That guy literally said the equivalent of "I just painted your house now pay me" to which the homeowner replied "Who the hell are you? I didn't want my house painted"
😆 lmao
This feels like when my car stops at a red light, a window cleaner comes over and cleans my car window, badly at that. Then proceeds to demand payment from me for service i didn't sign up for. Some aggressive ones could damage cars of people that refused to pay, so there's a sense of fear there.
This people are tyrant assholes, and most important hypocrates, they say they are doing things for "the greater good" and then want others to forcefully pay.
As he says, he wants power, that's it, they don't want to help anyone but themselvs
If you don't want to be apart of a union why would you apply for a job at a unionized company.
@@tracehorrocks2473 Because you didn't know it was unionized, or you're not qualified for anything else.
Three years have passed, it would have been nice if Stossel's crew put a note on this video to say what the court decided.
The court decided that unions cannot force employees to pay union dues.
Thank you for posting the update.
That's good, right?
Yup. And the most stupid decision they’ve ever made!!!
@@3mikeb
Not a stupid decision at all.
People should not be forced.
@@deezynar You’re right people shouldn’t be forced. But then on the flipside of that the union shouldn’t have to represent you. What you fail to bring up is that they want to be able to have the union still be forced to represent them but not pay union dues. What does that do in the long run? Bankrupt the union. If you can get something for free why would you pay for it? John’s been paying union dues for 30 years, Joe just walked in the door last year and hasn’t paid one dollar in union dues but Joe is supposed to get the same protection and legal rights as John? This law was just a way for corporate America to try to bankrupt unions. I’m sorry that you can’t see it but I damn sure can. I’m in a union and I’m a union steward.
Are you sure union guy is not a troll? He is making a damn compelling case *against* unions.
Mr Off Topic typical hypocritical stance of a union boss. They’re immune to logic, and have internalized the illusion being righteous
Mr Off Topic they are usually blind like Hillary was to real America. They live insulated from society like elites typically do.
@Max Wylde Some people don't belong in the labor movement Janus is one of those. His job was to get workers who could not pay their child support arrested. Like AFSCME Prison guards they should be thrown out. He belongs in one of those Police Blue gangster unions.
@Max Wylde Strosell and you don't like them because it cuts into profits period.
@Max Wylde Capitalists don't break laws because they make them. The capitalist state grows as the need to regulate greed does. When e union official becomes corrupt its because the bosses got to his soul bought him off and than thew him away like an old pair of socks.
3:25 “To me that sounds like the words of a right wing activist, not the words of a teacher.”
Whoa! That guy as much as said teachers can’t be right wing.
Do you have children attending public schools? Because one thing I've noticed with public schools, is that many teachers are VERY liberal. My son is grown now. But the public school system has turned into a liberal mindless s**thole, that doesn't hardly teach the basics anymore.
@@Deborahtunes What's the problem? Not enough Boss propaganda being taught?
@@kimobrien. What?
@@Deborahtunes I'm sorry your son had to suffer through the Government school system... that's rough... I really hope you atleast gave him some actual education at home or made sure he could get something elsewhere... those places are like a jail cell for the "lower class" I find it disgusting we still even have something so racist, so inhumane, so poorly conceived as government education.
@@joshuawoffard99 ~ Well, I had to teach him a few basic things that they did not. But we have plenty of books,
non-politically correct history books, an older dictionary. Because leftists are even changing the meanings to words now, to suit their narrative. It was bad enough when I was in school in the 80's, and they started teaching this "hate whitey" junk back then. Luckily I never bought into it. If anything, I found it offensive.
If I had known what I know now, I would have homeschooled my son.
He and I have already discussed it, and I told him when the time comes, I will gladly homeschool his children (my grandchildren). He was fine with it...
When they started "forcing" people to pay, they lost the argument.
A little more nuanced than that
If you bargain "collectively" then you benefit as part of a collective
So you should pay to accrue that benefit
To take the benefit....and refuse to pay the people who bargained it
Is unjust
NOW.....if you want to bargain your value individually....like athletes or movie stars
That's fine....hire people to do that...or do it yourself
One or the other....
@@notlikely4468 Imagine if Amazon just sent you random overpriced stuff and forced you to pay for it, no refunds or returns. That is not a business model, that's extortion, and exactly what these unions do.
@@Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Then as an employee...bargain your contract individually
If you are exceptional...you might be better off
(And being that we're all exceptional....)
But if you're going to bargain collectively...or work in a closed shop where the employer agrees that it is in their benefit to have a single contract....
Then you should pay for that service
@@notlikely4468 No, you should not pay for a service that you did not ask for. To ensure that a trade is a win win situation, both parties are able to opt out of it. You cannot force me to buy an iPhone for 1200$ when I think a 200$ phone will do, even when you think that the iPhone would be the better choice for me. Even if you sold me the 1200$ phone for 200$, it is still my decision, which one I should buy, or if I should even buy a phone, not yours.
@@Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
When you receive a commonwealth benefit
Like say......a pool in your condo
You pay for it....that's a consequence of being part of a collective
Or...you don't use the service...you leave the collective
That's your choice
Now..in a closed shop that means you find another job
Because both your employer and your representative (the union) have bargained that that is a condition of employment
If unions are as great as the union bosses say they are, then people should have no problem joining voluntarily.
People get fed a false narrative that unions are basically the mob and don't do their own fact finding
This almost equivalent to rape by forcing sexual consent!
Given-name Surname
Unions can fire you for not paying dues that’s not very pro worker in my opinion
@@uno9331 A union is what you make of it. The bosses would much rather deal with you as an individual because then they can more easily fire you and set you wages and time worked.
I'm so glad Janus happened, I'm still with the union, but now if they are doing shit I don't like I can leave.
“When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start
representing the interests of school children.” - Albert Shanker, President of the United Federation of Teachers
Interesting. Right now, I’d be willing to take them up on that.
😱Very revealing quote. I am so done with teacher unions.
I don't understand why they should. They represent teachers as labor force not children. That would be like car labor unions representing drivers instead of auto workers.
But when they don't get everything they demanded they go on strike, bottom line is they'll support the union when it benefits them.
I don't mind Unions but I think you should be able to choose not to be a part of them like when I worked part time at a grocery store why did I need to pay 50$ a month to union that did nothing for me
Marma yeah plus about 25% of my weekly paycheck in Taxes Its bullshit
It actually works the other way in this case, which pisses the unions off even more. You're still "in" the union, you just don't have to pay for it. Therefore they think you're a freeloader and try to get you fired. It's really swell... Unions protect idiots by stealing from the productive. That's it.
nigel106 I don't like them
nigel106 but I've always been a o
"If you like it do it just don't force me to" kind of guy
That $50 a mont and more would have never been on youcheck had there not been collective bargaining for your wage. Why didn't you work as a non union grover? Was it because the wage was more than $50 a month lower than where you worked? Forest through the trees.
Jefferson not having any idea of modern labor relations is the most ignorant, arrogant position that guy could possibly have taken. The sovereignty of individual liberty isn't situational, it's foundational. That's the whole point of the Constitution! Does the teacher's union know it elected someone who apparently never made it out of high school?
Laughable to quote Thomas Jefferson in the first place when discussing labor. The man owned over 600 slaves for god's sake. Sure look's like it was situation for him.
Michael Wisslead BRAVO MY FRIEND... BRAVO!
My hat’s off to you, good sir.
Michael Wisslead just because he owed slaves does not mean that what he said is false or wrong, in the time he lived slaves were not people
In the time that we live many people are not considered people by larger numbers of other people(foreigners, poor people, criminals, etc). Dehumanizing someone is just too easy. In fact, I'm doing it to you right now random person on the internet.
So....lets just force people to pay for union representation if they like it or not...sounds dehumanizing to me
SCOTUS ruled against the teacher's union and in favor of the plaintiff. This is a huge win for workers across the country.
James Bond they should do that to private unions too
@@wardogies You're not forced to join private unions lmao
@@jessevaldes5954
Yes you are in some cases. In states that aren't right to work. And, the Bar for law is just union but you can't practice unless you join. SOme places you can't get a job in construction unless you join the Union
@@0011peace that is a really different situation? It's not like it's the government enforcing that, it's a deal between the union and the company.
I am in a public union (CSEA) and recently they handed out pamphlets saying what unions have done for workers. Including 8 hr work days, time and a half overtime, family care leave, and other things. I go to the local president and say I would get those benefits if I wasn't in a union since they are all covered by federal or state laws, so what benefit does a union give me? His answer was they protect me from being fired and I said no you protect the ones who should be fired.
"I said no you protect the ones who should be fired."
So true.
they are also the reason that [the agency/dept you're working for]'s administrators get paid 5-20 times more than you do. if any of the money in education actually made it down to the schools it would be amazing but more than 80% is in regional administrative offices, district admins, etc
This is all true. Unions did indeed establish those standards many many years ago. Unfortunately they have fallen into corruption and tyranny now.
When I lived up north I was forced to be in a union that I didn't want to be in. That Union did nothing for any of us in that building. They folded to the corporation and cut our pay.
Unions are unbelievable. They have no right to your labor or your money. Provide something of value to the worker and if the worker chooses you then OK. Otherwise don't confiscate the worker's money.
They provide several services. Mainly collective bargaining. But facts be damned, you feelings are more important, right?
"We can steal because we complain and use your name to do it!" A sadly accurate summary of the union position.
it's because people think that having a job such as a factory worker is something special. ITS A COMMON JOB. If you can't compete in the market and cant prove to your employer that you are worth it, they can and WILL hire someone else to do the job. And it's not unfair because EVERYONE is competing. Although there are a few job opportunities that aren't flooded right now. If you go into those you won't have to compete.
@Max Wylde Since only about 9% of workers belong to unions there is plenty of non union jobs for you. That gives you plenty of say to work elsewhere. In fact what's keeping you from opening up another Microsoft and being another Bill Gates?
@Max Wylde Blah Blah Blah you real worry is not getting to keep a big bag of gold all to yourself. Your a capitalist cry baby. Probably lost all your money in a stock market swindle.
I had a job at a grocery store in high school. I was part-time. The union rep kept pressuring me to join the union. I said no and he said "but what if a management wants to fire you?" "If I'm a hard worker and management wanted to fire me, why would I want to work somewhere that management wants to fire me?" I soon resigned and the union rep wanted my last paycheck to be withheld from me just because...he didn't get his way.
My father crossed a union line once because he needed the money and the job and a large gang of union men attacked my father and three of his co-workers. All three were left in hospital for weeks. One of the men ended up losing his jobs because he became so depressed after the violent episode and he hit the drink hard after that and ended drinking him self to an early grave.
The Unions can pontificate as much as they like about workers rights but they really do not care about workers rights only their own political agenda.
Those unions in the UK destroyed all of its industry and this cost my father his job. My family were very pro labour until my father was on the receiving end of their violent activism. My father was one of the first to lose his job when it came down to it.
Unions and organized religions have a _lot_ in common. They were formed from strife, did what they were meant to do, then became bloated bureaucracies that stand for the antithesis of what they were created for.
Aaand I suppose those both have radical supporters who, when presented with facts, ignored those facts to continue their own narratives.
Edit: wait, are unions just religion 2.0?
I would posit that there is no difference and that both (religion and govt) have existed in such an intertwined relationship for all of human social existence... that they’re virtually the same. It’s just a way for the descendants of certain families to hold power over EVERYTHING. That’s why you see political families with high ranking priests AND govt officials in them and vice versa. The two are inextricably linked and always have been. IMO
3:24 - Proof that unions are more of a political organizations rather than just focusing on the general workers themselves.
If federal law prohibits employers from forcing workers not to join unions, it's only fair that unions should not be allowed to force workers to join either.
I ran into this when I went into the airlines. The union brief was literally some woman walking in and saying, 'we deduct money from your check regardless of whether you join, so you might as well join.' I asked a couple of questions, and the idea that she needed to defend or justify her position was clearly offensive to her. The only thing I ever noticed they did was enforce seniority over merit and protect guys that should have been fired for being dangerous.
That union was just digging its own grave
ALL Unions should be 100% voluntary. If you want to be a part of it, fine, pay your dues and enjoy. If you don't want to join, fine, you owe them NOTHING.
Around here, someone who takes my money without me giving it is called a thief, and they don't last very long.
Why do union leaders look like thugs?
Public employee unions, particularly police and fire, need to go.
police unions are scary if you think about it
It would force crappy corrupt racist cops out I think unions are no good . I’d be glad to break up unions
Unions are essentially pay to work why the hell should you pay someone to be allowed to work someone should pay you to work
With that representatiom comes barganing power. For those higher wages..10% higher at minimum. So be your own businessman and take the pay cut.
If forcing someone to pay for something they don't want is tyranny, what are taxes?
Tyranny
The government is supposed to be the sole wielder of force, you can call a government tyrannical if you want, laws by their very existence compels a moral code on citizens and thus all laws are tyrannical whether you agree with them or not.
You can either have tyranny or anarchy and with the anarchy option there are no rules to compel you, nor are there rules to save you.
Aharon Varna - Taxation without representation is tyranny. A case can be made that we don’t get enough representation for the taxes we get.
you don't want laws? roads? schools? I'm sure there are a lot of places that taxes go to that you wish they wouldn't but you should be arguing over those instances not the concept of taxes in its entirety.
The government is basically a mafia that uses a fraction of their stolen revenue to "give back to the community", thus ironically earning approval from their victims.
I used to be all for unions until I actually joined one at Safeway working in the deli. $30 dues per week and I got little to no representation or defense. Whenever I brought up a complaint I would get back, “Don’t make waves! You’re not being a team player, just roll with it and it will all work out.”
In the end I quit the job and have been anti-union ever since, especially when they took my reasons for quitting and labeled me an “hostile employee.” What did I do? I got in my managers face that I had enough of being made to change the dates on expired food and even being forced to sell customers NASTY stuff that should have been tossed from the hot container. Nasty stuff like dry chicken, burned cheese sticks and crunchy burritos. Perhaps my use of language was uncalled for but really, enough was enough and I hated being apart of it.
You're a national treasure John
Jerma A national treasure that will be our greatest shame.
He is so right, American workers should take a pay cut, that is our patriotic duty, and anyone who disagrees must be a communist. Stossel is not a corporate puppet, he is a true American.
Stossel's schtick has gotten very old.
No, that would be Bill Moyers.
Unions give ZERO benefit that already isn't in federal law.
Wow really? I have never had a union job but see union people take the 4th of July off I do not get it off along with most holidays. Union jobs usually get sick days not most jobs in the Midwest. Those seem like pretty decent benefits of union jobs. Although I have had perfect attendance for all but probably 4 years in 29 years of working so it would not be that big of a benefit for me.
We need to make public unions illegal. The problem with public-sector unions collective bargaining is that they monetarily support and elect the people they are negotiating their contracts with, which makes it a conflict of interest.
Lol you are such a fuckin moron. You get mad at Unions doing what corporations do. Holy shit. No group should be able to donate money to a politician. Individual contributions only.
@@KnightofAntiquity Thanks for pointing it out
10 years I worked union. They threatened me with fines loss of job opportunities and never sent me to good jobs. They day I stopped working union my life changed for the better.
Public Unions have created essentially a kick-back system for politicians. Donate to campaigns, FUND non-campaign directed Ads in a quid pro quo for unsustainable pensions and pay.
This. Unions with their incestuous relationship with politicians have created the PERS disaster that is sinking California...and is in the process of doing the same to Oregon and other states. The entire west coast will go bankrupt at the alter of union retirement funding.
+DrgnFlys -- **Sounds like *you* have been drinking the DNC Kool-Aid.
same with oil and farm subsidies
forcing someone to pay for something they don't want in this country is called healthcare
I got a PhD "too early" and am not allowed to negotiate to start earning less (than a veteran doctor). My resumé is teh first one to be thrown away when people are selecting new teachers to hire. Unions don't let me negotiate and don't let me get a job, after eleven fucking years in college.
free market arts
Once my teacher said unions are cancers.
That extended pause after "Thomas Jefferson had no sense." really got my blood boiling.
Public sector unions are an atrocity and must be abolished. Such union contracts cannot be negotiated in good faith, because the people doing the negotiation are not the ones paying the bills. These contracts put taxpayers on the hook for years, decades, even taxpayers who are not yet born who are going to be paying through the nose.
There should not be, and there should never have been, any such thing as a "public sector union".
Basicly Janus and his bargaining unit should have never been part of the AFL-CIO to begin with he belonged in the Police Blue Gangsters Union.
Including police unions then
Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his tome stone over these greedy out of control unions ! 😾
While I am pro-union, I believe people should be enabled to replace their unions with new ones so that they can get better representation and perhaps acquire insurance from a union health trust (saves employers money). Guilds would be a great idea to further to pressure on union bosses.
GET RID OF UNION DUES, PERIOD
Even FDR knew that public sector unions would be disastrous for the nation.
The only thing fdr ever got right.
public unions should never have come into being. after all, a union should not be living off of taxpayer money.
Florida is a right to work state. Many years ago I worked at Walt Disney World and joined the union. I didn’t realize that non union workers got the same representation because it was A right to work state. But I stayed. But when I needed them, they didn’t do squat! So I quit the union.
The unionists argument doesn’t hold water. If I make improvements to the exterior of my property, all the surrounding homes go up in value, but that does not make my neighbors free riders.
I work at a place with a union. They drafted a contract without my vote or say.
@PapaGeorg10 I was on vacation and could not go. They refused to give me paperwork or anything.
That spokesperson for Unions is why the Union itself is so unpopular. And has lost a lot of people.
I like how Stossel doesn’t go easy on anyone he’s interviewing, forcing them to back up their opinions
If a company want to stop giving health insurance, they can, don't let those union stop these companies. If a company want to lower your pay, they can, don't let those unions stop these companies. If a company want to fire you, and hire relative of the boss, they should be able to do so without unions stopping them
Yes yes yes! May liberty prevail!
Unions have done great things. Unions have done horrible things. But getting rid of all unions only helps employers.
Every union I've ever been in has been corrupt or completely inept. They all compete for who are the worst negotiators in the country.
Siegetower You have never been in a union you slime corporate shill. I am so glad I have mine.
Get out of the public sector if you don’t want to work in an unionized workplace. Plenty of private sector schools with no unions.
All fifty states should be right to work.
Laughing at how this decision actually ended up making local unions wake up and get more aggressive, making things even harder on the employers. 😂
The money is not in the union dues, back in the 70's my Union dues were 18 dollars a month but the company had to paid the union .98 cents a hour for my health and welfare plus .98 cents an hour for my retirement. I had 9 and 1/2 years in and the company when out of business, so I will never see a dime of that money as you need 10 years to be vested. thank you teamsters local 170, I hope you choke on that money.
30 bucks per month per person ..10 million workers 300 mil a month 1.2 billion a year corruption has no problem staying in buisness
I hope and pray they do make this country right to work
Do you even know what right to work means? I think you dont. Go read the "right to work laws". Ignorant rhetoric. But stay classy and ignorant my friend,
"Right to work" is backwards sophistry. They just need to get rid of the NLRA and other similar shit.
Scott Fultz read a book about how employers treated us before unions.
Wealth expansion enabled better working conditions and quality of life. Unions leeched off of that.
animecomicgeek studios you must own a big business
Isn't it terribly convenient how that judge died right before making a decision?
I was watching Spongebob the other day, and in the episode Bummer Vacation, the Fry Cook union forces Spongebob to have a vacation, despite the fact Spongebob wanted to continue to work.
Unions and lobbying must be banned.
isn't that what the yakuza do, extort money from people for "protection".
I don’t need a Union if I don’t like my job I quit and find a new one
Don’t apply for a union job if you don’t want to pay union dues. Not that hard of a concept to figure out.
Brilliant, John!!!!!
Well the unions lost. MAGA
When people complain about low paying jobs they are told you are not being forced to work there. Find a different job. So not one person is forced to pay union dues. Just get a non union job.
Union contracts are upwards of 4 times the cost for the same service from non union companies. They usually go after state and federal jobs/ projects since there is less transparency when it comes down to the cost. This is why our taxes are so high.
I've seen it myself. I worked at a non-union grocery store, part time. And one day, a woman who worked at one of the competing unionized grocery stores came through my line
(she had her uniform still on), I teased her saying, "Awww, you cheater". She said jokingly, "Are you kidding, I'm not paying their prices"...
And by the way, that non union store job had the best benefits package ever. No job, union or not, could compete with it.
My point being that what you are saying is absolutely correct. Companies that are unionized, are outrageously expensive for their services/prices. And I can usually find an equal/better, less expensive product elsewhere...
Oh my god... I really hope all unions can't force people to ever force people to pay. It is just wrong all around. Any union who says otherwise just knows they are no better than slavers. Forcing people to pay them for the work they have done.
Well it passed, congratulations my friend.
Wait who won?! What passed?
@@frankcate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_v._AFSCME They sided with Janus and against AFSCME.
Thanks to Neil Gorsuch, the supreme court did make all government jobs right to work. With all the protests against police and how they are protected by powerful unions, why hasn't this been brought up more? All these protestors should be encouraging massive opt out campaigns for police unions.
"Sounds like the words of a right wing activist..." lol okay?
That union rep had such an unprincipled defense of his position it was painful to listen to.
It's clear to me now why union reps don't often to talk to the press.
That would be such a huge blow to the DNC I can't wait. I was in a union for 2 years. That's all I could take. Got promoted and got out.
Union's fees are extortion. The last time I checked, extortion is illegal in this country.
“Thomas Jefferson had no sense of 21st century labour relations...”
No, he probably didn’t. But neither do union reps who earn multiple six figures from “gifts” by the union to represent their union through fees...
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” - Ben Franklin.
I was being required to come early for a briefing and leave late from work every day as a correctional officer. AFSCME ignored my complaint and put it on their wall as a joke. My Dad was a construction worker. If they did that, the job would be shut down and heavy equipment rented for the job would be sitting unused. Of course, you cannot strike at a prison. You cannot even refuse overtime.
I'd add-
Per an article I read about the ADX, guards were being forced to patrol the basement that flooded with sewage without protective equipment.
There is the USA Today article about how nurses and accountants and the like were regularly being tapped to man posts. leaving their hired for jobs cut short.
And that's WITH a union.
Libertarians have failed to answer what happens when your employer _is_ the government, and is breaking labor law except for hurr durr=unions bad -hurr durr.
We were also FORCED to come in for overtime, and this was a private company, with a private sector union. I didn't come to work that day and was wrote up, and reprimanded for it. But hey, unions are great, right???🙄
Apple just got sued for this and LOST. I hope you’re within the stairs of limitations, fellow citizen. Good luck to you.
Public unions have leached off non union workers, and the public, long enough!
Unions, when they were started, were a necessity for the worker. Now they are not. When first started, workers had to work long days with little safety measures used for little money. Now because of gov't regulations and agencies, that kind of worker protection is no longer necessary, making unions unnecessary. Now unions have swung the balance to the other extreme. Union workers are generally paid much higher wages than the average citizen, with much better benefits. Good for the worker, bad for the business and without the business, there are no workers. Every union membership is declining except gov't unions, for a reason. The unions started doing things that the membership did not necessarily agree with, like making political statements with the use of membership dues.
I could go on, but i think i made my point.
"Unions, when they were started, were a necessity for the worker." I disagree. It easy to make a claim like this. Now, you need to prove it.
I agree with the other guy. Prove your statement.
Jim I already have. Do you deny the history of unions that i laid out? Do you deny the gov't institutions/regulations we now have that got workers what they wanted out of unions when first organized?
Well, ok then. Here's a history of unions in the US. www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0113/the-history-of-unions-in-the-united-states.aspx
And here's the basic state of unions today. www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/unions-workers.asp
As you can see, the reason for unions is no longer valid (safety, hours, pay). The only way they can wield power is if a large contingent of union people work for a large industry (such as auto, gov't, etc.).
Duane Willis:
It looks like the rest of his comment was a proof of the statement -- unless you want to challenge the argument he laid out. I realize that the "libertarian" ideal is very pro-slavery even though they will deny this.
In certain TRADES unions are NEEDED for safety. Thank God for the IBEW.
The whole nation can be right to work. WOW! US labor just took a BRUTAL hit. I know a whole bunch of carpenters making very good money, all union members. I know a whole bunch of other carpenters who make much less money, dont have health insurance nor do they have pensions, non union. This will be felt for a long long time, organized labor is dead. and conservatives are celebrating. The strangest of times.
Unions set the pay bar for the pay that your friend makes. If it were not for unions your friend would not make the money he does, have the insurance he does or maybe even the pension he has, if it were not for the unions that set the pay scale.
Oh by the way "Right to work" means right to starve in reality
There is no right to food.
Better than right to extort
Teachers. Police officers. Firemen. Emergency services, Public transportation, etc., etc.,etc
The men and women who work these public union jobs in my opinion deserve the very best we can give them. They work for us and our families. They work for YOU. ✌🇺🇸
Hopefully SCOTUS will allow right to work and then you will see how many people want to continue to be in the union.
Dues are supposed to pay for the lawyers, the meeting space, any equipment the union needs. You can't have representation without paying wages. After all your work pays you.
Bye bye unions.
Josif Maracine Enjoy your corporate feudalism you clueless bullying fuck.
it should be private unions as well. No union should be able to force anyone to pay dues if they don't to be part of the union, sometimes you still have pay even if you're not.
Hear Hear!!! I worked at a private company, with a private sector union. One of the worst jobs I ever had. The benefits and raises were terrible. And I was wrote up, and reprimanded for not coming in, when they forced us to work overtime... But because we are not a "right to work" state, you were forced into the union no matter what...
In the 4 years I was represented by the UAW they managed to steal my money, hold me up from promotion by 6 months (thus stealing more of my money), and ultimately lose me my job when the company decided they had enough of their crap and closed the place.
My next job I was salary but the hourly guys were all USW. Same story all over again. Delay my work, get in my way, and cause problems. Most of the represented guys did a good job, but so few wanted to make OT that actually getting any maintenance projects done in a working factory was basically impossible since I couldn't do it myself by literal letter of the law. What a pain in the ass...
Private Sector Unions really need to disassociate themselves from Public Sector Unions. Private Sector collective bargaining is a tool groups of like minded individuals can use and while there are reforms that need to be put in place (with regards to transparency, mandatory membership, and oversight to ensure Unions represent the interests of their productive members), that tool has good use. Public Sector Unions are inherently political, a corrupting influence, and antithetical to democracy. Any kick in the teeth to Public Sector Unions is well deserved and Private Sector Unions would do well to just create distance and let them fall, as well they should.
Scalia was murdered
I hope you’re joking.
Jackson Lux Imagine what the msm would do if they found Ginsburg dead with a pillow over her face while Trump was president? Scalia dies that same way under Obama and the vermin liberal media says nothing!!
a_slight_veneer_of_privacy “Unions have a sordid history of killing people...”
*CITATION PLEASE.*
hostiliscivitas in the words of Penn Jillette, “Conspiracy theories are bullshit.”
Jackson Lux I would t discredit ALL conspiracy theories if I were you in this case.
Some are legit.
You just have to be closely aware of how they pan out though.
20 years in the union. Gutless and self serving.
It's not just tyranny it's extortion, by the very definition of the word.
Problem is, if you have the "choice" to not join the union, the 2 big muscular union guys will teach you to "choose" better.
Watching this after a great ruling 4 months later! We are moving in the right direction.
Good news:
Janus v. American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Council 31, No. 16-1466, 585 U.S. ___ (2018) - abbreviated Janus v. AFSCME - was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court on US labor law, concerning the power of labor unions to collect fees from non-union members. Under the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947, which applies to the private sector, union security agreements can be allowed by state law. The Supreme Court ruled that such union fees in the public sector violate the First Amendment right to free speech, overturning the 1977 decision in Abood v. Detroit Board of Education that had previously allowed such fees.
Unions...the HOA's of the workplace. you spend money you shouldn't have to, in order to get what you already have, to benefit people you may never have met. When a union forces you to take money away from your family, and you don't have a choice in the matter, that is a hostile workplace. When the union takes your money, lies about how it's going to be used, then goes directly against your views and donates to your opposition political party, we have a big issue. Oh by the way...the tyranny of forced participation in the crime family that is a union, was deemed illegal with that decision. Now to see that same result for ALL unions, not just the government unions.
The only reason you have what you have is because of unions. The 5 day 8 hour workweek was created by unions
Uh huh, keep thinking that. Keep thinking they still serve a purpose outside of stealing wages from hard working people for stuff that happened decades ago. When they no longer represent the people that are forced to pay them, and use that money to work against them, don't be mad how it turns out.
V Star 1300 Adventures And your reasoning is that no big employer would take advantage of the common working man that isn't organized because all those 'rights' were established years ago? They would never think to start taking them away!
That is why we have things like the Department of Labor, Courts, lawsuits...and voters. It is important to be engage with what is going on instead of hoping the union rep will tell you what you need to know.
V Star 1300 Adventures We've had those things for years, haven't we? Even before most unions. Didn't stop employers from looking out for strictly their own purpose.
Yeah, phuck the Unions! Let’s let the companies decide our wages, benefits, retirement an control job site safety and working conditions. What could possibly go wrong for the working class in that scenario?! Organize For Power! Go Teamsters!
Workers decide their wage. Are you too stupid to not negotiate your worth?
3:48 This Union dude, he's a Classic Bad Guy and a Moron for saying something like that about Thomas Jefferson, A Founding Father of our Great Country. Of course Thomas Jefferson would know a ton of knowledge and wisdom that perfectly applies Today
bull shit i worked in a union did nothing for me no benefit at all just another tax out of your chek
My husband is in a union, and his company is HORRIBLE about providing normal, fair treatment to employees. If it wasn't for his union, he would have no pension, much higher medical insurance premiums, and would be able to be fired without cause or recourse (excluding hiring an attorney, which no one can afford). He has never been in a union before this one, and we are both immensely aware and grateful for it's benefits and protections.
You're pretty much saying that it's nice when other people pay for your shit.
Bushrod Rust Johnson What other people?
OK my union president and VP caused a guy to get demoted to prove a point. Which he had to retract his first grievance because it grieved another union member and he still in my opinion grieved another union member in their grievances.
G S
"Other people" who are forced to join the union, and forced to pay union dues, even if it is against their will.
In the case of public employee unions, the taxpayers are the "other people".
That was a private sector union, which is perfectly fine. The SCOTUS dealt a blow to public sector unions, which basically allow workers to demand the taxpayer pay more money for higher wages for others without a vote.
Your husband's union seems great from the one paragraph that you used to describe it, but your anecdote is irrelevant.
What do UNIONS want? MORE! Given time they collectively bargain their jobs away. UAW cost me a career 30 years ago. Although we were among the best compensated in the County it is NEVER enough. The scenario is played out thousands of time costing millions of good people good jobs. Stupidity rules the day, an adversary posture was normal - all history now.
What libertarians don't understand: Public sector unions are NOT a voluntary agreement between the taxpayers and the workers. Private sector unions ARE a voluntary agreement between the company and the workers. If you don't like it as a company, you can replace them with contractors. If you don't like it as a worker, you can find a different job. Figure this out, and you just might have a chance in the political arena. Until then, you're just Republican Lite. "Right to Work" is pro-statism if you haven't figured that out yet.
Thurgor Supreme Right to work is not anti private union. It just says that unions cannot deny people their right to go to their job if they don't pay dues. If they want to join a union, they have to do it out of their own will, not be forced to
Matrix Man Umm, no. The union and the company have already agreed to a contract. The government is forcing the company to breach it. Again, if you don't like it as a worker, you can work for a different department or company, or even change your career path.
Thurgor Supreme You do know a company doesn't agree or not agree to unionize right? The company has no choose or control whether its employees unionize.
Dane Foxworthy And what's your point? There's nothing violent about collective bargaining. The company still agrees to the contract voluntarily. It's when the government steps in that force becomes initiated.
Thurgor Supreme You do know it's illegal to fire an employee for wanting to start a union and its illegal to fire an employee for not coming to work because he is striking, right?
For those of you who don't want to find the case and the ruling it passed the supreme court 5 to 4 due to infringing on the 1st amendment