I have the same table and accessory kit. The basic accessory kit is enough to get you started. To tackle more complex jobs, I sunk a fair amount of money into additional clamps and fixture items. The versatility of the clamps really makes your imagination the only limiting factor. Quality for everything is first rate. Very pleased with my purchase and the value it has added to my workflow.
*You illuminated the functionality of vertical uprights well. Anytime you're cranking out multiples it's all about removing variables in production and I could see setting up and welding 20-30 copies at a time without problem on this unit. Not enough to build a dedicated jig/fixture but still a time saver and guarantor of repeatable product tolerances*
We bought ours a few years ago and absolutely love it! Since purchasing, we modified the original legs and added machine casters with built-in, ratcheting leveling bases. We're also considering the Fireball Tool 'Dragon Wagon' to compare.
Oh, Tim, I don’t know how I missed this video. It answers my questions. It wasn’t easy to get mine in and set up either. It took me over three hours. Fortunately I have a good stacker. Though it was somewhat difficult to get the pallet out from under it. The table is really good and the accessories are well made. I have somewhat different accessories than you received. But my weakness is continually buying more of everything, it seems. What I like about the clamps is that these models and the other heavier versions that don’t have the horizontal movement in the beam, lock at different heights. I hate the fact that others tend to drop when you remove the work, and then you have to get it set up again each time. These let you loosen them, swing them out of the way, and swing them back. So much easier and faster.
Great table and fixtures Tim, your time and dedication has paid dividends. keep up the good work, sharing your experience with us. Good to know what is out there. I enjoy the tool reviews, more so from someone who knows what he is is talking about.
Congratulations on an awesome table! Love watching your videos although I can't even weld in my workshop. I have to visit some of my metal working friends for welding etc. But someday, somewhere I'll be able to setup a metal shop.
Tim, I enjoyed watching this the 1st time, but dont think I can ever justify the cost, but it looks fantastic. Im watching this a 2nd time as a form of tool lust ... went to their site and noticed they have a 2x3 table for 50% off including some fixtures 😮🤤 thought some of your viewers might like to know. Very happy for you getting this awesome tool, cant wait to see you use it in future videos, thank you for sharing with us. p.s. I will be purchasing your 4 courses in the near future 😇
Nice new fixturing table! Kind of a shame they don't just put a tapped hole at the center so you can thread a lift eye right into it. (yes, I see the ribs only allow 1/2" engagement, unless they were cut away) Even a grade 2 1/2-13 bolt is rated at 6600lbs clamp load, lifting eyes are forged and much stronger but 1/2" of 1/2-13 thread can easily support that top.
I really appreciate all of the TimWelds audience as well as the few companies I choose to work with for making this whole thing possible! This setup is going to enable some really cool project builds that are coming up on the channel.
It's great to do an unboxing, but a review would be good too. How flat is the table? How much does it deflect with a big workpiece on it? I'm guessing everyone who's in the market for one of these knows what a fixturing system is.
Super nice table addition to your shop. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the projects ! One question on nitrided tables and ground. Do you ground the nitrided table or the work or both. Did you find a difference with your previous table.
They sent it out after I reached out to them. I really appreciate the few sponsors that I work with who make it possible for me to do more on the channel than I otherwise would.
Thanks! I’ve used it twice and so far so good. I think the main difference will be fewer dings and weld spatter really does seem to stick less. It’ll take a little time to see what else stands out.
@@ChanceDeLaShyI’ve bought nearly $4000 since in extra tooling etc, I’m having Delrin Pucks made (basically Prisms) so I can do other work, like woodwork etc. I bought one then Quantum machinery told me there was a price increase coming so I said send me another, back then they were $1999 for the 3x4 kit with all the tooling and going up $500.00 so I jumped on it. Now I believe the kit is $4500 which I’d never pay it today, that’s too much for my wallet. I’m into everything I have which is quite a a bit of tooling with a used snap on tool box for,storage for less then $10,000.00, you never see them for sale used. They are great, down the road I’d like a series 28 set but for now the imperial 16 is great even though the imperial 16 has less tooling available compared to a series 28.
@@marcanthony854 You were wise. I bought the same kit for $2K. Love it. I had considered jumping on a second one at the time, but I didn't 🤦🏻♂️. Now, I'm thinking I'll snag the 2x3 package and make a 6x3. These tables are worth every penny.
Hi tim, I’m in the market and cannot decide between steel and cast and whether or not to nitride. I’ve heard cast is better because it’s inherently harder to weld to and dings/scratches do not cause deformation in the material. Also, I’ve heard nitride and coating make it more difficult to dress surface with stones and abrasive pads without removing the coating itself. Being that you own the arcflat cast iron as well as a steel nitride table, I’d love to hear your thoughts Thanks, -Chris
Bruh, that table is beautiful. I'm slowly learning how to use mine, sure does make squares a lot more square. Fighting distortion is always a losing battle, but these tables help.
I wish the engineers and designers who draw these things would learn a little about avoiding distortion in the first place and countering it. But they show fitments with no space and scribble codes without thinking how it's going to pull.
@@jimurrata6785 I imagine that it's hard to factor in because it's so... not random, but incalculable. How can it be quantified? Maybe the tolerances account for it? I don't know, but it's one of those things that no one really thinks about unless you're welding it. I don't really consider it during fit up, mostly because I don't know how to. But I know it's going to happen, because it happens every single time.
@@InchFab I've always felt that any engineer, designer, architect, whatever... should have to work in the trade they design for (so they realize challenges and don't spec the impossible) Is there an _absolute_ amount of distortion you will get from a weld... every time? No. Too many factors like stress already in the material, fit up, how hot the bead goes down, how fast it cools down, HELL, how that particular filler rod _felt like behaving _*_that_*_ day_ But pencil pushers and button pressers can help you overcome. Or they can back you into a corner and stick a knife in your neck. I'm not suggesting that they spec an unsafe weld process or compromise the design. Just design to make that 'perfection' attainable. (This coming from a guy whose longtime friend designs and specs (as well as INspects) plumbing for the nuclear industry.
Can you talk about the deltas with the Langumir Table? My largest complaint of the Langumir is that they are not very thick and the BuildPro bolts don't work without modification.
My Buildpro bolts work with this table without a problem. Just get the 0.98” length bolts and not the slightly longer 1.1” bolts. This won’t tighten down without a thick washer. My Buildpro clamps work as well. I don’t know why the bolts don’t work in your table. What’s the problem?
@@melgross You own a Langmuir table? Just to clarify you don’t mean the Siegmund. My table might have a different thickness than yours. Could be a casting issue on my end.
@@alonsorobots I don’t, but a friend does. Yeah, the Langmuir table is 3/8” thick. That’s why I said to use a thick washer. Then it’s fine. The standard bolts are for approx. 1 inch total thickness. Or 25mm thickness. All these tables have 16mm holes except for the Buildpro, which is 5/8”. Very tiny difference.
What was wrong with your Arcflat table by Langmuir? I think you can combine another table and make the same table as in this video….just wondering. Cheers
Great question! There’s nothing wrong with the Arcflat, but this table has a lot of advantages other than the size. The material is thicker and the holes are at a tighter tolerance, which makes the clamps sit more true. The surfaces are a consistent thickness and have chamfers ground on the bottom, which allows the use of quick mount fasteners that won’t work on the Arcflat. The table is made from hardened material which prevents dings that affect dimensions. The nitride coating keeps weld spatter from sticking. The engraved grid pattern and rulers make setups much faster. The overall quality is at another level as well. They are both a good for their price, but this system is in another league.
The table you have is much more practical for most people. But if you want to see what's involved in unboxing a Fireball Tools table, check this out. It's a bit more of a project :) ruclips.net/video/wh4dqlkdP6Q/видео.html
These are German made, extremely high quality and hard tables. It’s not that Kovosu tables don’t provide a good value option, but it’s not the same thing.
Interesting since the accessories seem to have very similar molds. Hole chamfering and tapers looks very similar as well. It’s definitely possible design is being copied by Kovosu. What’s the flatness measure? We have a Kovosu SS 304 and we have measured it to have flatness of 0.15 mm across the long length of our 4.5’ x 8.5’ custom table from them. *we paid ~$13K excluding customs etc
@@securitycamera322they’re not Kovosu tables. Many other companies copy the Siegmund tables and fixtures. Some are a lot cheaper. None are the same internally.
@@sammccollum2985 ya, I don’t know how good they are as I’ve never looked into them but I can’t see spending $4500 for a 3 x 4 table. That’s why I bought two of them back in the day because I figured they were going to go up in price I would not pay $9000 for two of them today that’s for sure.
@@marcanthony854once inflation is figured into the mix it really isn't much of a difference in actual costs. As long as your revenue has stayed up with inflation.
If you have a mag drill you can make these tables yourself for less than $200 with some square tubing for legs and 7/16th steel plate. $5k for a table with some holes is ridiculous. I made mine with 90 degree sides as well for less than 200. Just as level and flat as these.
I highly doubt you’re is anywhere as good as a Siegmund. Sorry, but you’re not going to get the same spacing equality as a CNC table. Nor is yours going to be as flat, or as strong as this 0.500 thick hardened and tempered tool steel table that’s machined, then ground after tempering. Enjoy yours, but don’t fool yourself.
They provided it for use in videos. I really appreciate the few companies that I choose to work with because they make it possible to do more on the channel.
Yes, free for advertisement. I love how people say companies provided it for use in videos...Of course, or why else would they send it, as this all would have been negotiated over the phone prior to receiving said promotional items.
Sponsor sent you the table - it would have been nice to know the cost, shipping etc. Review is incomplete without basic details. I am sure they also sell other sizes. It wouldn’t have been nice to cover those details in your review as well.
Depends on what you need “real” welders often don’t do quality work either. Go to Jason’s Fireball channel and see what happened when he went to some “real” welders and had them build some simple products. It’s enlightening. The best welders buy high quality fixture tables. It’s clear you’ve never welded.
I have the same table and accessory kit. The basic accessory kit is enough to get you started. To tackle more complex jobs, I sunk a fair amount of money into additional clamps and fixture items. The versatility of the clamps really makes your imagination the only limiting factor. Quality for everything is first rate. Very pleased with my purchase and the value it has added to my workflow.
Congrats on the new table. I really appreciate all your work and I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Most clever fixture table I've seen. Awesome. Congratulations. It will be a pleasure to see you using it in your videos
*You illuminated the functionality of vertical uprights well. Anytime you're cranking out multiples it's all about removing variables in production and I could see setting up and welding 20-30 copies at a time without problem on this unit. Not enough to build a dedicated jig/fixture but still a time saver and guarantor of repeatable product tolerances*
We bought ours a few years ago and absolutely love it! Since purchasing, we modified the original legs and added machine casters with built-in, ratcheting leveling bases. We're also considering the Fireball Tool 'Dragon Wagon' to compare.
Oh, Tim, I don’t know how I missed this video. It answers my questions. It wasn’t easy to get mine in and set up either. It took me over three hours. Fortunately I have a good stacker. Though it was somewhat difficult to get the pallet out from under it.
The table is really good and the accessories are well made. I have somewhat different accessories than you received. But my weakness is continually buying more of everything, it seems.
What I like about the clamps is that these models and the other heavier versions that don’t have the horizontal movement in the beam, lock at different heights. I hate the fact that others tend to drop when you remove the work, and then you have to get it set up again each time. These let you loosen them, swing them out of the way, and swing them back. So much easier and faster.
I'll never be able to afford such a table, but kudos for the creativity involved in making the engine hoist do the job!
Great table and fixtures Tim, your time and dedication has paid dividends. keep up the good work, sharing your experience with us. Good to know what is out there. I enjoy the tool reviews, more so from someone who knows what he is is talking about.
Sound's great, but also doesn't sound very affordable for the average person, thanks for the demonstration, all the best to you and your loved ones
It's only $5000 with shipping. They practically give them away.
Congratulations on an awesome table! Love watching your videos although I can't even weld in my workshop. I have to visit some of my metal working friends for welding etc. But someday, somewhere I'll be able to setup a metal shop.
Very, very nice table. I wish I had enough projects to justify that table. Good informative video, thank you.
Wow I'm jealous. Great table. Keep up the great videos!!!
TimWelds... I absolutely love that welding table. That would be awesome to have in my garage/shop. Thanks for sharing it.
Tim, I enjoyed watching this the 1st time, but dont think I can ever justify the cost, but it looks fantastic. Im watching this a 2nd time as a form of tool lust ... went to their site and noticed they have a 2x3 table for 50% off including some fixtures 😮🤤 thought some of your viewers might like to know.
Very happy for you getting this awesome tool, cant wait to see you use it in future videos, thank you for sharing with us. p.s. I will be purchasing your 4 courses in the near future 😇
That thing looks amazing!
Nice set-up, and addition to your shop.
Nice new fixturing table!
Kind of a shame they don't just put a tapped hole at the center so you can thread a lift eye right into it. (yes, I see the ribs only allow 1/2" engagement, unless they were cut away)
Even a grade 2 1/2-13 bolt is rated at 6600lbs clamp load, lifting eyes are forged and much stronger but 1/2" of 1/2-13 thread can easily support that top.
In a word….Awesome! 👊😎
Very nice. Clicked on the link. For me, one of their 'mobile' work stations would be awesome to have.
That's one heavy duty bad asz table. I know you will put it to the test.
I love my system 16 sigmund 3x4 table definitely get more clamps and tooling for it
Christmas comes early. I'm glad that us watching funded your new table.
I really appreciate all of the TimWelds audience as well as the few companies I choose to work with for making this whole thing possible! This setup is going to enable some really cool project builds that are coming up on the channel.
He says in another comment that it was gifted to him, so no funding was necessary.
@@rodfrey good for him.
@@rodfrey they wouldn't have gifted it without him having that many viewers 😉
It's great to do an unboxing, but a review would be good too. How flat is the table? How much does it deflect with a big workpiece on it? I'm guessing everyone who's in the market for one of these knows what a fixturing system is.
Impressive.
Super nice table addition to your shop. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the projects ! One question on nitrided tables and ground. Do you ground the nitrided table or the work or both. Did you find a difference with your previous table.
Thats nice. Did you buy it , or was it sent to you ,, ??
They sent it out after I reached out to them. I really appreciate the few sponsors that I work with who make it possible for me to do more on the channel than I otherwise would.
@@TimWelds no harm ,,, but it lends a lot to your credibility if you say so ,,,
Yes, just say you received it as a promotional item....we know that's how a lot of You Tubers get stuff for free that not all of us could afford.
That looks like a sweet table! I'd be curious how the steel welds on compared to your old cast iron?
Thanks! I’ve used it twice and so far so good. I think the main difference will be fewer dings and weld spatter really does seem to stick less. It’ll take a little time to see what else stands out.
That's awesome
Very nice. That is beautiful. Can I have your old one? 😁
Bought two of them, absolutely love them I can make a 3x8 , 4x6 out of 2 of them, awesome tools!
What did two tables cost you?
@@ChanceDeLaShyI paid $1999.00 each, yes $1999.00 the same kit thats double that today, I’ve had them for nearly 3 years now, absolutely love them.
@@ChanceDeLaShyI’ve bought nearly $4000 since in extra tooling etc, I’m having Delrin Pucks made (basically Prisms) so I can do other work, like woodwork etc. I bought one then Quantum machinery told me there was a price increase coming so I said send me another, back then they were $1999 for the 3x4 kit with all the tooling and going up $500.00 so I jumped on it. Now I believe the kit is $4500 which I’d never pay it today, that’s too much for my wallet. I’m into everything I have which is quite a a bit of tooling with a used snap on tool box for,storage for less then $10,000.00, you never see them for sale used. They are great, down the road I’d like a series 28 set but for now the imperial 16 is great even though the imperial 16 has less tooling available compared to a series 28.
@@marcanthony854 You were wise. I bought the same kit for $2K. Love it. I had considered jumping on a second one at the time, but I didn't 🤦🏻♂️. Now, I'm thinking I'll snag the 2x3 package and make a 6x3. These tables are worth every penny.
@@marcanthony854Siegmund has different prisms. Their clamps. An have various materials for the feet as well, including nylon and poly.
Nice!
Hi Tim, Can you recommend any design modelling software? I know you mentioned one in a previous video but I can't locate it. cheers mate
Here's a nice one: Could you do a comparison video on extremely cheap 6013 rods vs very expensive 6013 rods any size
Hi tim, I’m in the market and cannot decide between steel and cast and whether or not to nitride. I’ve heard cast is better because it’s inherently harder to weld to and dings/scratches do not cause deformation in the material.
Also, I’ve heard nitride and coating make it more difficult to dress surface with stones and abrasive pads without removing the coating itself.
Being that you own the arcflat cast iron as well as a steel nitride table, I’d love to hear your thoughts
Thanks,
-Chris
Bruh, that table is beautiful. I'm slowly learning how to use mine, sure does make squares a lot more square. Fighting distortion is always a losing battle, but these tables help.
I wish the engineers and designers who draw these things would learn a little about avoiding distortion in the first place and countering it.
But they show fitments with no space and scribble codes without thinking how it's going to pull.
@@jimurrata6785 I imagine that it's hard to factor in because it's so... not random, but incalculable. How can it be quantified? Maybe the tolerances account for it? I don't know, but it's one of those things that no one really thinks about unless you're welding it. I don't really consider it during fit up, mostly because I don't know how to. But I know it's going to happen, because it happens every single time.
@@InchFab I've always felt that any engineer, designer, architect, whatever... should have to work in the trade they design for (so they realize challenges and don't spec the impossible)
Is there an _absolute_ amount of distortion you will get from a weld... every time? No.
Too many factors like stress already in the material, fit up, how hot the bead goes down, how fast it cools down, HELL, how that particular filler rod _felt like behaving _*_that_*_ day_
But pencil pushers and button pressers can help you overcome. Or they can back you into a corner and stick a knife in your neck.
I'm not suggesting that they spec an unsafe weld process or compromise the design. Just design to make that 'perfection' attainable.
(This coming from a guy whose longtime friend designs and specs (as well as INspects) plumbing for the nuclear industry.
Magnificent! It would be 100% excellent if they had added metal dust drawers beneath the holes. 🥴
Wish list!
Hey Tim, have you been hacked.....? Or is someone impersonating you????
Hi Tim, what are your thoughts on your previous Langmuir table? That looked like it could work for my needs. Was it well built? Thanks!
It’s good for the price point. It doesn’t have the ability to accept this type of locking bolts and the size is smaller (though they can double up).
@@TimWelds thanks for the reply.
Just put 2 of their 4’x8’ tables together in my shop today. I seen you used WD-40 to get the packing grease off. Did that work well?
Awesome! WD-40 worked great for me.
Really nice $$
What happened to the arc flat?
Can you talk about the deltas with the Langumir Table? My largest complaint of the Langumir is that they are not very thick and the BuildPro bolts don't work without modification.
My Buildpro bolts work with this table without a problem. Just get the 0.98” length bolts and not the slightly longer 1.1” bolts. This won’t tighten down without a thick washer. My Buildpro clamps work as well. I don’t know why the bolts don’t work in your table. What’s the problem?
@@melgross You own a Langmuir table? Just to clarify you don’t mean the Siegmund. My table might have a different thickness than yours. Could be a casting issue on my end.
@@alonsorobots I don’t, but a friend does. Yeah, the Langmuir table is 3/8” thick. That’s why I said to use a thick washer. Then it’s fine. The standard bolts are for approx. 1 inch total thickness. Or 25mm thickness. All these tables have 16mm holes except for the Buildpro, which is 5/8”. Very tiny difference.
What was wrong with your Arcflat table by Langmuir? I think you can combine another table and make the same table as in this video….just wondering. Cheers
Great question! There’s nothing wrong with the Arcflat, but this table has a lot of advantages other than the size. The material is thicker and the holes are at a tighter tolerance, which makes the clamps sit more true. The surfaces are a consistent thickness and have chamfers ground on the bottom, which allows the use of quick mount fasteners that won’t work on the Arcflat. The table is made from hardened material which prevents dings that affect dimensions. The nitride coating keeps weld spatter from sticking. The engraved grid pattern and rulers make setups much faster. The overall quality is at another level as well. They are both a good for their price, but this system is in another league.
Really nice set sir! What about the price? 🙄
How can I make 2way contact with you about a fuel tank project I'm working on?
If you put too much heat into the table does it go out of flat?
What do you mean by too much heat?
I can only envy you. :)
Curios how much did you pay per lb?
So what happened to the ArcFlat?
The table you have is much more practical for most people. But if you want to see what's involved in unboxing a Fireball Tools table, check this out. It's a bit more of a project :) ruclips.net/video/wh4dqlkdP6Q/видео.html
Where to buy !
I'm pretty sure these are rebranded Kovosu tables, get it cheap directly from them.
These are German made, extremely high quality and hard tables. It’s not that Kovosu tables don’t provide a good value option, but it’s not the same thing.
Interesting since the accessories seem to have very similar molds. Hole chamfering and tapers looks very similar as well. It’s definitely possible design is being copied by Kovosu. What’s the flatness measure? We have a Kovosu SS 304 and we have measured it to have flatness of 0.15 mm across the long length of our 4.5’ x 8.5’ custom table from them.
*we paid ~$13K excluding customs etc
@@securitycamera322they’re not Kovosu tables. Many other companies copy the Siegmund tables and fixtures. Some are a lot cheaper. None are the same internally.
Belinya lewat mana pak?
How much did you pay for it? Sponsored? Is there a discount code?
I paid 1999 for mine 2 years ago right before there price increase, today there 4500 for,the same exact kit
I'm thinking certiflat for that price, then.
@@sammccollum2985 ya, I don’t know how good they are as I’ve never looked into them but I can’t see spending $4500 for a 3 x 4 table. That’s why I bought two of them back in the day because I figured they were going to go up in price I would not pay $9000 for two of them today that’s for sure.
@@marcanthony854once inflation is figured into the mix it really isn't much of a difference in actual costs. As long as your revenue has stayed up with inflation.
How much?
Siegmund you like I'm form MECAS Engineering pakistan
That must have been expensive
If you have a mag drill you can make these tables yourself for less than $200 with some square tubing for legs and 7/16th steel plate. $5k for a table with some holes is ridiculous. I made mine with 90 degree sides as well for less than 200. Just as level and flat as these.
I highly doubt you’re is anywhere as good as a Siegmund. Sorry, but you’re not going to get the same spacing equality as a CNC table. Nor is yours going to be as flat, or as strong as this 0.500 thick hardened and tempered tool steel table that’s machined, then ground after tempering. Enjoy yours, but don’t fool yourself.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👌🏼🍎😎 to much table and to much money for hobbies but thank You
Beautiful piece of kit Tim...lucky man. $3200 on sale, $4200 regular price 🙁
So did they give it to you or did you pay for it . I heard no disclaimer ? Also you said nothing of cost .
They provided it for use in videos. I really appreciate the few companies that I choose to work with because they make it possible to do more on the channel.
Yes, free for advertisement.
I love how people say companies provided it for use in videos...Of course, or why else would they send it, as this all would have been negotiated over the phone prior to receiving said promotional items.
I bet the cleaner is re bottled la's totally awesome jk
Ok,how much? I'm sitting down.
The full kit is $4500. They’re not cheap, for sure, though it’s in the price range as competitors tables.
More like $5000 with shipping, and then there is sales tax.
Sponsor sent you the table - it would have been nice to know the cost, shipping etc. Review is incomplete without basic details. I am sure they also sell other sizes. It wouldn’t have been nice to cover those details in your review as well.
Real welders don't buy their welding tables, they build them themselves.
That’s fine
Depends on what you need “real” welders often don’t do quality work either. Go to Jason’s Fireball channel and see what happened when he went to some “real” welders and had them build some simple products. It’s enlightening. The best welders buy high quality fixture tables. It’s clear you’ve never welded.
Why real welders never work on such tables...
Because they’re paid by the hour 🤷♂️
@TimWelds.... you are so right ! Plus, Not all 'real' welders are 'real' fabricators.
Is there a nitrile coating on the top
What an interesting and innovative welding table design! Very cool.