I think there are some -- excellent -- points about game design here, no doubt about it. However, its not flawless. There is absolutely choice bloat in 5e and he's right about that, but I fear he's gone a bit too far in order to tackle it - particularly when it comes to subclass identity. When I look at Nimble's subclasses I just don't see a whole lot to get excited about, they're pretty bland because he's trying to keep the complexity down. However, I feel like subclasses / classes are the one place where a bit more complexity is warranted, as those features are unique to the class (unlike spells) - and thus drive its playstyle and flavor.
I never said it was flawless. I lobbied hard to get several things into Nimble that were rejected. I still want Ancestries to have some choice in the benefits you can have. Overall I am happy with this change and the system as a whole. Nothing is perfect for every person and thankfully each group can add more complexity to the system to suit our needs pretty easily.
@@Edward_FP That's fair. I'd say this presentation is about an 8.5-9/10 for me, seeing as how while it does make great points, I feel like Nimble is taking the idea of "simple is better" a bit too far
I love the change! I think that Nimble is an amazing idea. And it’s way easier to build up the complexity (if desired) through homebrews than to make everyone agree on a rule simplification. Nimble will be a great game, and a huge platform on which further homebrews will be able to flourish!
I like how "Shadow of the Demon Lord" cuts skills and backgrounds entirely, and replaces them with professions. If your profession as an academic alchemist or a criminal fence would help you in a certain situation, you either auto-succeed, or gain +1d6 to your roll. They also cut the number of Attributes to Strength (encompassing Con), Agility, Intellect, and Will (kinda includes Charisma in some ways). You should check it out, it's a great system.
From the getgo/title this sounds like it aligns with a lot of stuff I've been pushing for at my table, like fusing STR/CON into one thing, not having a thousand different, niche options that you need to purchase a feature in order to do. Aka, why on earth is BM the only fighter subclass, let alone a character option, that has the ability to disarm/trip ppl as part of a physical attack.
Loved the 4 Stats / 4 Saves idea! But now, the pacing of stat increase is equal: every 4 levels I get 1 of 2 Key Stats, and every 4 leves I get 1 of 2 Secondary Stats. Idea: a second Key Stat Increase every 4 leves OR a Major Stat Increase every 4 leves.
Not sure where the best place for this is or if this has already been discussed, but D&D 2024 upped the dice for healing and I’m wondering if that would happen in Nimble too. What’s your take on the viability of healing and balancing healing spells?
I like the idea of one spell that gets more flexible use as you level up. Like a super power. I might enhance range or damage or number of targets or duration orit is used so trapping rings, or fire whip instead of blast.
but what about if the barbarian wants to pump str and dex and ignore int and wil? right now they get a key stat increase and have to choose between str and dex, and then they have a secondary stat increase where they can only choose between int and wil. shouldn't the secondary stat increase be a generic stat inccrease where they can choose between any stat that they didn't choose on the key stat increase previously?
Re: 18:00 To be fair, the 2024 version of D&D does actually offer more options than just picking the weapon with the biggest number, since weapon masteries have been added... Of course, that's additional complexity, so it's not something I'm expecting (or wanting) to see in your version of the game.
Big fan of what youre doing! But I will say your Star Wars Example is only slightly of true- imo- depending on the experience or culture’s storytelling norm. Great example is French film vs an American film about the same subject. I think American storytelling is extremely low body fat while other cultures do at times prefer more body fat. But it also depends on the adventure- but I agree that we want that fat to be optional to add vs need to remove
Include that class goldilocks table, it's a Great way to explain class to new players. I would swap warlock and artificer. Artificer is dex nimble crafter, warlock is power borrowed strength.
I like most of what you do. I think the ability score reduction and saves are great, but damn you have a narrow view on skills and what the ability scores stand for. Out of curiosity. Why not just play, or make a reduction edition of dnd 4e. Its a lot more like nimble than 5e is.
To be fair it makes sense for weapons that focus on manual Dexterity such as a rapier or handling a firearm. Though to your point, drawing a bow does require strength but visual media often shows the skinner characters with bows so that assumption sticks in fantasy Tropes.
10/10 presentation. Thanks so much for this more comprehensive look at the design philosophy of Nimble 5E.
I think there are some -- excellent -- points about game design here, no doubt about it. However, its not flawless. There is absolutely choice bloat in 5e and he's right about that, but I fear he's gone a bit too far in order to tackle it - particularly when it comes to subclass identity.
When I look at Nimble's subclasses I just don't see a whole lot to get excited about, they're pretty bland because he's trying to keep the complexity down. However, I feel like subclasses / classes are the one place where a bit more complexity is warranted, as those features are unique to the class (unlike spells) - and thus drive its playstyle and flavor.
I never said it was flawless. I lobbied hard to get several things into Nimble that were rejected. I still want Ancestries to have some choice in the benefits you can have. Overall I am happy with this change and the system as a whole. Nothing is perfect for every person and thankfully each group can add more complexity to the system to suit our needs pretty easily.
@@Edward_FP That's fair. I'd say this presentation is about an 8.5-9/10 for me, seeing as how while it does make great points, I feel like Nimble is taking the idea of "simple is better" a bit too far
I like merging str and con as a way to make str less of a dump stat.
I love the change! I think that Nimble is an amazing idea. And it’s way easier to build up the complexity (if desired) through homebrews than to make everyone agree on a rule simplification.
Nimble will be a great game, and a huge platform on which further homebrews will be able to flourish!
This is FANTASTIC, Evan! I'm so glad I got on board. CANNOT wait to get my boxed set!!!
I like how "Shadow of the Demon Lord" cuts skills and backgrounds entirely, and replaces them with professions. If your profession as an academic alchemist or a criminal fence would help you in a certain situation, you either auto-succeed, or gain +1d6 to your roll. They also cut the number of Attributes to Strength (encompassing Con), Agility, Intellect, and Will (kinda includes Charisma in some ways). You should check it out, it's a great system.
This is kinda in line with mörk Borg that use only 4 stats.
You have elegantly found the goldilocks sweetspot. Well done!
I'm excited for what you come up with for the INT+STR class!
Evan, I'm 3/4 of the way through the video and loving it! It's an elegant solution to a problem that everyone has been talking about for ages.
Charisma + wisdom = presence
From the getgo/title this sounds like it aligns with a lot of stuff I've been pushing for at my table, like fusing STR/CON into one thing, not having a thousand different, niche options that you need to purchase a feature in order to do. Aka, why on earth is BM the only fighter subclass, let alone a character option, that has the ability to disarm/trip ppl as part of a physical attack.
I like what I hear, looking forwards to seeing the revised version including these changes.
Charisma + wisdom = personality
Yeah man, terrific points all over this thing. Published adventures completely lost the plot for what they were intended to be.
I like the idea of less stats, because skills are effectively sub stats.
Great video! You explained things very well. Maybe INT / STR class can be the WITCH collab class.
Loved the 4 Stats / 4 Saves idea! But now, the pacing of stat increase is equal: every 4 levels I get 1 of 2 Key Stats, and every 4 leves I get 1 of 2 Secondary Stats.
Idea: a second Key Stat Increase every 4 leves OR a Major Stat Increase every 4 leves.
Not sure where the best place for this is or if this has already been discussed, but D&D 2024 upped the dice for healing and I’m wondering if that would happen in Nimble too.
What’s your take on the viability of healing and balancing healing spells?
What happened to Intimidation Skill? It's not on the final list.
Intimidation can be handled by any skill (e.g., arcana: I'll turn you into a toad!)
Just ran dragon barrow from icespire. Two pages face to face. Great adventure.
Hello, there! Is there are any prediction for the PDF version of the books is coming out?
I like the idea of one spell that gets more flexible use as you level up. Like a super power. I might enhance range or damage or number of targets or duration orit is used so trapping rings, or fire whip instead of blast.
Great change
but what about if the barbarian wants to pump str and dex and ignore int and wil? right now they get a key stat increase and have to choose between str and dex, and then they have a secondary stat increase where they can only choose between int and wil. shouldn't the secondary stat increase be a generic stat inccrease where they can choose between any stat that they didn't choose on the key stat increase previously?
Re: 18:00
To be fair, the 2024 version of D&D does actually offer more options than just picking the weapon with the biggest number, since weapon masteries have been added...
Of course, that's additional complexity, so it's not something I'm expecting (or wanting) to see in your version of the game.
Another comment for engagement. :D
Big fan of what youre doing! But I will say your Star Wars Example is only slightly of true- imo- depending on the experience or culture’s storytelling norm. Great example is French film vs an American film about the same subject. I think American storytelling is extremely low body fat while other cultures do at times prefer more body fat. But it also depends on the adventure- but I agree that we want that fat to be optional to add vs need to remove
I wish Wotc hadn't made 5.5e (the newest edition) so backwards-compatible. They would've been able to address these issues.
But then it would be a new edition. We all know new editions never cause any conflicts and always unites the community even more.
A performing doctor that doesn't get to shine in the campaign is also a slight failing in player to DM communication imo
Comment for engagement! :D
Include that class goldilocks table, it's a Great way to explain class to new players. I would swap warlock and artificer. Artificer is dex nimble crafter, warlock is power borrowed strength.
I like most of what you do. I think the ability score reduction and saves are great, but damn you have a narrow view on skills and what the ability scores stand for.
Out of curiosity. Why not just play, or make a reduction edition of dnd 4e. Its a lot more like nimble than 5e is.
Never understood why Dex covers ranged weapons.
To be fair it makes sense for weapons that focus on manual Dexterity such as a rapier or handling a firearm. Though to your point, drawing a bow does require strength but visual media often shows the skinner characters with bows so that assumption sticks in fantasy Tropes.
@@jonathanthompson4077 I just think that ranged weapons should be covered by Perception and Perception should be a stat, not a skill.