One thing I appreciated about this episode and the previous one is that they do bring in characters from The Batman without making too big a thing out of it. In the previous episode, there was an appearance by the crooked cop from the film (Kenzie) and in this one we have the Police Chief, Bock. I like this because it’s some neat fan service for people like me who love the movie and it doesn’t intrude because they’re not exactly major characters anyway that you need to know and have context for. Someone watching this show doesn’t need to remember that these two characters were in the movie, but it adds to the experience.
I noted that too. Where other shows might pause for recognition and applause, The Batman simply draws upon its stable of characters and actors where appropriate.
I agree that Oz always intended to immolate the Maronis. There's no way he lets them go when he's already set up Sal's death, he's gotta wipe them all off the board.
Of course, the big famous example of this kind of thing is that absolutely no one working on Casablanca thought of it as anything more than another product of the studio grind, and were as surprised as anyone when it turned out to be one of the most perfect movies ever made.
I'm curious to know-do you think Sofia's alliance with the Maronis will last? I mean obviously it won't exist long because this show shifts the status quo every episode, but do you think Sofia's going to betray Sal? Because there was this really interesting shot, right after "I would have ripped out his tongue and left him for the vultures // that's what i thought" where we see Sofia's eyes shift down, and then cut to a shot of Sal's hand on the table, and it's ambiguous what she's looking at. The picture of Sal's family under his hand? Or the ring on his pinky, a ring she would have last seen on Alberto's hand? Maybe both? Is she thinking of Sal's protectiveness over his family and Alberto's protectiveness over her? Is she thinking that Sal still participated in letting Alberto's murderer go free, and deserves to die for it? Or is she focused on what that ring represents-power in Gotham, and how being the top dog is the only way to avoid being victimized again, no matter who she has to climb over for that position? I am so excited for the rest of this show I agree that it is incredibly well crafted and thought out my god. GoT S1 still lags behind this for me, and *they* already got to copy GRRM's homework.
Keep up the good work Vera 👍🏻, always look forward to your reviews of this series 😊, love Matt Reeves Batman universe, not looking forward to this ending, probably have to wait till 2026 for the next Batman movie.
I don't disagree with most of what you said except the "fill a slot" rant. I can understand that feeling, but the behind the scenes scuttlebutt I've heard about the "The Batman" spinoff shows over the years definitely makes me feel like they wanted *something* to spinoff for people to watch and stay interested in that world, this was the one that clicked - don't get me wrong, it really clicked, it's been a fantastic show, but I think it only exists because WB(D) was looking to roll out something off a successful film (especially as the Snyderverse/DCEU was collapsing at the time, but Gunn's DCU was a little too far off). At the same time, having watched Agatha All Along (as far as has been released so far, so...6 of 10 episodes?), it feels like a ton of thought and intention was put into it, moreso than I'd expect from a thing that like got proposed (or greenlit) just to capitalize on a decently popular breakout star of a past project. Maybe they're both just solid examples of "making the best of this consumerist mentality".
I really like the penguin and unlike pennyworth as u mentioned it’s doesn’t feel like just something commissioned to be filler content like a lot of the marvel shows do and being a huge Batman fan for 35 years now i went into the Batman skeptical of Robert Pattinson’s casting cause personally i can’t separate him from the awful twilight series and when he was announced I thought they got Edward Cullen to be Batman and he surprised me with how good he actually was as Batman
Honest question, do you feel the dialogue itself was even close to an earlier episode like when Sofia in a last episode said “I’m not safe, I’m home” ? Is any line in this entire episode subtle or nuanced or poetic in any way, or does it all just state the most obvious shit possible to just run through the motions and force things to happen like when the kid they need to find happens to be live broadcasting his location and cannot hear a gun….? No hate, but do you genuinely think this episode was that good or did it just feature characters you like kinda vaguely pretending to do in-character stuff?
@@davidgeldner2167 this version of the character seems to be based of the more gangster version from the early to mid 90’s version that had the iceberg lounge and stuff not the version of past that the 60’s series is based on so it feels very much in character even though the gasoline scene does seem to come out of left field and Sofia divorcing herself from her father’s family and adopting her mother median name is interesting but we have to see how that plays out in the long run of the show but it is typical Gotham City mob mentality in my opinion
@@kevin10001 in your opinion is it a decent line to just outright state something like “This is our base of operations now” after you just established that a) you need a base and b) you are looking for a base and c) you have found a base….do you not think then stating “Vic this is our base” is a bit insultingly obvious and offensively patronizing??? Let me break this down for you, with all due respect. Mobsters in real life and monsters that are well written NEVER say exactly what they mean in the literal sense. Mobsters always assume someone is spying on them and that everything they say could be used as evidence. In The Godfather the characters constantly take extreme care to word things like “I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse” instead of a truly terrible version of that same statement that just blatantly says it literally like “see the thing is I am going to make threaten his life and his family until he does what I want” see the difference? This entire episode was written extremely poorly. In an earlier episode Sofia says “I’m not safe, I’m home” but in this she simply states things we already know or could easily assume like “My father is dead” 😂 Look it’s fine if you liked or even loved it. I’m actually not trying to yuck your yum or tell you what to enjoy. But level with me here man. I’m not crazy, I see what I see here. The dialogue was genuinely and sincerely cringeworthy.
The only thing that bugged me was how Nadia didn't notice the smell of the gasoline (?) on her son. That abd hiw a significantly wounded Sal managed to get off the island.
Look I love the show but the kid doesn’t hear guns go off two feet from his head bc he’s wearing headphones, and he happens to live broadcast his location just before that… The characters state the obvious and almost never use any figurative language which is usually the only way a mobster speaks, like the the Godfather for example, he is not “making him an offer” as the saying goes but rather speaking as if he’s being spied on, he’s not incriminating himself with his words like they constantly do here bc they know anyone could be bugged. This was a terrible episode of a great show, very sadly.
Her emotions would be very heightened as her only concern and thoughts was of getting her son back. That could easily cloud everything else, including what her son smelt like. Had she had chance to calm down a little, then I'd have questioned it myself. The above comment regarding the guns I agree with though. Those headphones would need to be deafening to have not heard those guns.
@@Elwaves2925 what I really cannot excuse is that the dialogue treated us tbh like idiots. The number of times they states shit we already knew for certain or could easily ascertain with the tiniest shred of reasoning is actually insulting. I don’t need Penguin to look for a base, locate a base, show me the base and then proceed to cap it off by stating that this is their new base. That is truly bad writing from any perspective.
@@Elwaves2925 also, what son 😂 like I get he was introduced about 30 seconds before he magically revealed his location to the world and openly stated his family were monsters which a mobster never ever does ever…but where the hell was he up until that point? Who were those random ass thugs that were just out of nowhere like “oh hey penguin” and he was like “hey my thugs you know I’m your loyal boss right?” Like it felt amateur as hell to be fully real with you.
@@davidgeldner2167 It did have a bit of a kids these days and their TikToks. You would think he would know better, but you did have the folks with the"free" money from Chase that publicized their theft. But they presumably didn't grow up in a family that would have stressed this.
Look I love the show overall but I honestly feel this episode was truly bad. They don’t speak implicitly or with any of the subtlety (mobsters rarely say exactly what they mean on the literal level). Why are characters telling the camera super obvious things? What the hell was that introduction in the beginning of like 4 new characters (Maroni’s son was a cringe and entirely random addition to the show, it came completely out of nowhere with no setup or foreshadowing)…those goons that out of nowhere Oz just controls bc he’s like “aye you guys know I got u right? Guess what I got a new drug…hey Vic you hear of the guy I already told the audience about?” Look, I really do not mean to kill anyone’s buzz but I feel like I’m taking crazy pills bc eps 1-3 rocked but episode 4 made me genuinely feel bad about my mental illness (hey maybe don’t treat the fact someone is mentally ill as an automatically scary thing that turns us into creatures, just a thought) and this episode made me feel completely and utterly pessimistic for the future of this entire elseworld that I otherwise am absolutely crazy about. I love the character of Sofia. But mob bosses do not ever understand any circumstance talk that way…they do not state explicitly what they’re thinking or even say what they mean in the literal sense. Even something like “you’ll never utter his name again” or whatever like she should said it way more poetically or at least with any semblance of needing to read between the lines. If I am not reading between the lines, the mobster dialogue is awful. It’s not “well I’ll just threaten him!” It’s “I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse.” Frankly, the dialogue was truly, truly horrible and rage but with Maroni’s son felt like an alarm went off screeching “retcon” in a cringey (yes, his acting even was bad, the video he made was bad) and somehow monotonous tone. Remember please when anyone comments, I still love the show overall. But another example is when Oz is clearly standing inside a headquarters while in need of a new headquarters so he says “yea so this is our new base…” like come on you’re gonna tell me that’s good dialogue by you!? No. Colin elevates it but no. That’s awful dialogue. And I’m not even getting started on how terrible that therapist’s corny ass speech was… Really hoping this was a different writer than the first three eps. And I really hope the guy who wrote this (in my honest opinion) dud of an episode doesn’t ever write for my favorite show again 😔
One thing I appreciated about this episode and the previous one is that they do bring in characters from The Batman without making too big a thing out of it. In the previous episode, there was an appearance by the crooked cop from the film (Kenzie) and in this one we have the Police Chief, Bock. I like this because it’s some neat fan service for people like me who love the movie and it doesn’t intrude because they’re not exactly major characters anyway that you need to know and have context for. Someone watching this show doesn’t need to remember that these two characters were in the movie, but it adds to the experience.
I noted that too. Where other shows might pause for recognition and applause, The Batman simply draws upon its stable of characters and actors where appropriate.
I agree that Oz always intended to immolate the Maronis. There's no way he lets them go when he's already set up Sal's death, he's gotta wipe them all off the board.
Good thoughts on the episode. It's definitely getting interesting. Love seeing you enjoy the show
Of course, the big famous example of this kind of thing is that absolutely no one working on Casablanca thought of it as anything more than another product of the studio grind, and were as surprised as anyone when it turned out to be one of the most perfect movies ever made.
I'm curious to know-do you think Sofia's alliance with the Maronis will last? I mean obviously it won't exist long because this show shifts the status quo every episode, but do you think Sofia's going to betray Sal?
Because there was this really interesting shot, right after "I would have ripped out his tongue and left him for the vultures // that's what i thought" where we see Sofia's eyes shift down, and then cut to a shot of Sal's hand on the table, and it's ambiguous what she's looking at. The picture of Sal's family under his hand? Or the ring on his pinky, a ring she would have last seen on Alberto's hand? Maybe both?
Is she thinking of Sal's protectiveness over his family and Alberto's protectiveness over her? Is she thinking that Sal still participated in letting Alberto's murderer go free, and deserves to die for it? Or is she focused on what that ring represents-power in Gotham, and how being the top dog is the only way to avoid being victimized again, no matter who she has to climb over for that position?
I am so excited for the rest of this show I agree that it is incredibly well crafted and thought out my god. GoT S1 still lags behind this for me, and *they* already got to copy GRRM's homework.
I feel the same way about the therapist and the show overall!
Thanks!
Damn! I hope this show ends good, cause the direction it’s heading keeps me hyped for what happens next.
Was just wondering if your video on this one was out yet lol. Good timing
Keep up the good work Vera 👍🏻, always look forward to your reviews of this series 😊, love Matt Reeves Batman universe, not looking forward to this ending, probably have to wait till 2026 for the next Batman movie.
I don't disagree with most of what you said except the "fill a slot" rant. I can understand that feeling, but the behind the scenes scuttlebutt I've heard about the "The Batman" spinoff shows over the years definitely makes me feel like they wanted *something* to spinoff for people to watch and stay interested in that world, this was the one that clicked - don't get me wrong, it really clicked, it's been a fantastic show, but I think it only exists because WB(D) was looking to roll out something off a successful film (especially as the Snyderverse/DCEU was collapsing at the time, but Gunn's DCU was a little too far off). At the same time, having watched Agatha All Along (as far as has been released so far, so...6 of 10 episodes?), it feels like a ton of thought and intention was put into it, moreso than I'd expect from a thing that like got proposed (or greenlit) just to capitalize on a decently popular breakout star of a past project.
Maybe they're both just solid examples of "making the best of this consumerist mentality".
I really like the penguin and unlike pennyworth as u mentioned it’s doesn’t feel like just something commissioned to be filler content like a lot of the marvel shows do and being a huge Batman fan for 35 years now i went into the Batman skeptical of Robert Pattinson’s casting cause personally i can’t separate him from the awful twilight series and when he was announced I thought they got Edward Cullen to be Batman and he surprised me with how good he actually was as Batman
Honest question, do you feel the dialogue itself was even close to an earlier episode like when Sofia in a last episode said “I’m not safe, I’m home” ? Is any line in this entire episode subtle or nuanced or poetic in any way, or does it all just state the most obvious shit possible to just run through the motions and force things to happen like when the kid they need to find happens to be live broadcasting his location and cannot hear a gun….?
No hate, but do you genuinely think this episode was that good or did it just feature characters you like kinda vaguely pretending to do in-character stuff?
@@davidgeldner2167 this version of the character seems to be based of the more gangster version from the early to mid 90’s version that had the iceberg lounge and stuff not the version of past that the 60’s series is based on so it feels very much in character even though the gasoline scene does seem to come out of left field and Sofia divorcing herself from her father’s family and adopting her mother median name is interesting but we have to see how that plays out in the long run of the show but it is typical Gotham City mob mentality in my opinion
@@kevin10001 in your opinion is it a decent line to just outright state something like “This is our base of operations now” after you just established that a) you need a base and b) you are looking for a base and c) you have found a base….do you not think then stating “Vic this is our base” is a bit insultingly obvious and offensively patronizing???
Let me break this down for you, with all due respect. Mobsters in real life and monsters that are well written NEVER say exactly what they mean in the literal sense. Mobsters always assume someone is spying on them and that everything they say could be used as evidence. In The Godfather the characters constantly take extreme care to word things like “I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse” instead of a truly terrible version of that same statement that just blatantly says it literally like “see the thing is I am going to make threaten his life and his family until he does what I want” see the difference?
This entire episode was written extremely poorly. In an earlier episode Sofia says “I’m not safe, I’m home” but in this she simply states things we already know or could easily assume like “My father is dead” 😂
Look it’s fine if you liked or even loved it. I’m actually not trying to yuck your yum or tell you what to enjoy. But level with me here man. I’m not crazy, I see what I see here. The dialogue was genuinely and sincerely cringeworthy.
Engagement for the engagement god!
The only thing that bugged me was how Nadia didn't notice the smell of the gasoline (?) on her son. That abd hiw a significantly wounded Sal managed to get off the island.
Look I love the show but the kid doesn’t hear guns go off two feet from his head bc he’s wearing headphones, and he happens to live broadcast his location just before that…
The characters state the obvious and almost never use any figurative language which is usually the only way a mobster speaks, like the the Godfather for example, he is not “making him an offer” as the saying goes but rather speaking as if he’s being spied on, he’s not incriminating himself with his words like they constantly do here bc they know anyone could be bugged. This was a terrible episode of a great show, very sadly.
Her emotions would be very heightened as her only concern and thoughts was of getting her son back. That could easily cloud everything else, including what her son smelt like. Had she had chance to calm down a little, then I'd have questioned it myself. The above comment regarding the guns I agree with though. Those headphones would need to be deafening to have not heard those guns.
@@Elwaves2925 what I really cannot excuse is that the dialogue treated us tbh like idiots. The number of times they states shit we already knew for certain or could easily ascertain with the tiniest shred of reasoning is actually insulting. I don’t need Penguin to look for a base, locate a base, show me the base and then proceed to cap it off by stating that this is their new base. That is truly bad writing from any perspective.
@@Elwaves2925 also, what son 😂 like I get he was introduced about 30 seconds before he magically revealed his location to the world and openly stated his family were monsters which a mobster never ever does ever…but where the hell was he up until that point? Who were those random ass thugs that were just out of nowhere like “oh hey penguin” and he was like “hey my thugs you know I’m your loyal boss right?” Like it felt amateur as hell to be fully real with you.
@@davidgeldner2167 It did have a bit of a kids these days and their TikToks. You would think he would know better, but you did have the folks with the"free" money from Chase that publicized their theft. But they presumably didn't grow up in a family that would have stressed this.
The Show is really good That was a nice 5 Second video
Omg... 😂
Look I love the show overall but I honestly feel this episode was truly bad. They don’t speak implicitly or with any of the subtlety (mobsters rarely say exactly what they mean on the literal level). Why are characters telling the camera super obvious things? What the hell was that introduction in the beginning of like 4 new characters (Maroni’s son was a cringe and entirely random addition to the show, it came completely out of nowhere with no setup or foreshadowing)…those goons that out of nowhere Oz just controls bc he’s like “aye you guys know I got u right? Guess what I got a new drug…hey Vic you hear of the guy I already told the audience about?”
Look, I really do not mean to kill anyone’s buzz but I feel like I’m taking crazy pills bc eps 1-3 rocked but episode 4 made me genuinely feel bad about my mental illness (hey maybe don’t treat the fact someone is mentally ill as an automatically scary thing that turns us into creatures, just a thought) and this episode made me feel completely and utterly pessimistic for the future of this entire elseworld that I otherwise am absolutely crazy about.
I love the character of Sofia. But mob bosses do not ever understand any circumstance talk that way…they do not state explicitly what they’re thinking or even say what they mean in the literal sense. Even something like “you’ll never utter his name again” or whatever like she should said it way more poetically or at least with any semblance of needing to read between the lines. If I am not reading between the lines, the mobster dialogue is awful.
It’s not “well I’ll just threaten him!” It’s “I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse.” Frankly, the dialogue was truly, truly horrible and rage but with Maroni’s son felt like an alarm went off screeching “retcon” in a cringey (yes, his acting even was bad, the video he made was bad) and somehow monotonous tone.
Remember please when anyone comments, I still love the show overall. But another example is when Oz is clearly standing inside a headquarters while in need of a new headquarters so he says “yea so this is our new base…” like come on you’re gonna tell me that’s good dialogue by you!? No. Colin elevates it but no. That’s awful dialogue.
And I’m not even getting started on how terrible that therapist’s corny ass speech was…
Really hoping this was a different writer than the first three eps. And I really hope the guy who wrote this (in my honest opinion) dud of an episode doesn’t ever write for my favorite show again 😔