New Airbus A220, Boeing 787 Grounded & Lufthansa Frustrated
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- An Air Tanzania Boeing 787 has been grounded in Malaysia for the last seven months, facing critical Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engine issues. Meanwhile, Breeze Airways has reaffirmed its strong interest in acquiring a stretched A220, dubbed the A220-500 if Airbus moves ahead with the aircraft. Lastly, Lufthansa has expressed frustrations over delays in acquiring aircraft from Boeing as the major airline's costs continue to mount.
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#aviation #news #flight #aircraft #avgeek #airplane #airlines #airport #planespotting #airbus #boeing
These airlines are gonna grow tired of boeing soon
Some already have, orders to Airbus, Embraer and ATR
@@William2512no they haven't. Not to Embraer and atr
Avianca will announce soon their switch from 787 to A350 gradually .
So you think you can just walk into an Airbus showroom and walk away with some planes? The order backlog is years
@@Hypersonic-es6vh Yes ATR is 50% Airbus 50% Leonardo
Some years ago, Airbus stated that the supplier contracts they inherited from Bombardier were overpriced and their wouldn't be an A220-500 until after said contracts had expired and been renegotiated circa 2025. I'm guessing nothing will be announced until Spirit issues/ownership has been dealt with
Exactly. Until renegotiation, there is little chance of the A220 delivering a decent profit. As such, it would be economic madness to create a further stretch unless there was an imperative to do so.
The A220 series also have a 8-10 year backlog. I guess Airbus is going to expend capacity eventually, but probobly so when the contract is renegotiated. Making a stretch before there is more capacity is kind of pointless.
They also have a somewhere near 12 year backlog of the A320 family. A A220-500 would go head to head with the A320Neo that have a gigantic backlog.
While the A220-300 goes head to head with the A319Neo it barley have any orders.
The A320 series is also getting old. It will need a replacement announced with in a decade.
Having the A220 replace the A320 kind of make sense from a cost of development, the issue there is that while -300 and -500 would be a good replacement for a A319 and A320, the A321 is still the most popular from the series, and the issue there is that a A220-700 would lack the range of the A321.
@matsv201 Unlike the 737, the A320 was cutting edge when it was launched, and while the 737 has relied on grandfather rights, the A320, while no longer cutting edge , is still current technology, and could well go on for decades before it shows it's age against its peers.
However, that is in no way a prediction that it will.
The next 737 will have to be a new design. The costs of making the MAX comply with the latest requirements are (according to Boeing) prohibitive. The question is, will Airbus follow suit or beat them to it?
@@neilpickup237
A320 is a good plane for now. But i doubt it will be good for a other engine upgrade. At least major engine upgrade. A320 is the oldest plane Airbus manufacture and also still the first gen narrow-body. Its getting old. Its not old yet, but say a other 10 years to announce a replacement, than 5 year more to get it into production, than 20 more years to replace all in service.
So either, Airbus ramp in the A220 as a make do replacement, that, well is a really good aircraft. Or they need to make a clean sheet.
The advantage of ramping in the A220 is that it will cost them pretty much nothing and they also know the preformance.
The downside is that making a A321 replacement might be hard.
Also A220 is a very modern aircraft, but its not cutting edge. This solution would be a limited time solution and probobly give the A220 some 20 year life span past A320 series. Still its a cheap solution that probobly would be loved by customers.
The airplane is nice to fly and it have good fuel economy
@@neilpickup237 That's false both the 737 and A320 were cutting edge when launched.
I Love The A340-600 And Will Miss The Air Craft,Airbus Goo For The A220-500.Great Video And Info
Love the a340
Until Airbus owns 100% of Airbus Canada LP, don't expect any announcement on a stretch of the A220 as it would require the other shareholder (Québec government) to invest its share of the project which it is not willing to do as it is desperate to find a way to sell its 25% stake to Airbus without losing money on its initial investment in that company that had it own 40% of it. As I recall, 2025 is a year where Québec has opening to sell its stake (or deadline to do so, would have to find the original deal to see the exact dates).
Pretty sure Airbus is doing some planning and engineering but nothing can be announced until Québec sells its 25% stake. Also, they will want to fix A220 production to rate rates to make project profitable before going ahead with new model.
There wont be a stretch because you basically kill the A320Neo which is way more profitable for Airbus
Would have been the other North American final assembly line for A220, A320 and possibly widebodies after the US state of Alabama, but as a joint venture with Raytheon
@@thisiskevin1000 The A220 belongs to Airbus Canada LP. So a derivative needs to be funded by Airbus Canada LP. And as part of the deal of Airbus getting 50% of Airbus Canada LP at no cost came in exchange of guaranteeing that only A220s sold to US airlines are built in Alabama, preserving assembly jobs at Mirabel Québec. If Airbus waits for the QC govt to sell its shares in the company, then Airbus becomes 100% owner of Airbus Canada LP and can then fund the -500 derivative itself at its own pace without having to wait for a government's decision on issue.
@@Infiltator2 would it really have that large a negative impact on neo sales?
@@silphonym it would the same capacity, be cheaper and has a lower fuel burn. So yes it would. The A220-300 is a why there is literally no A319 anymore.
Could Embraer develop a bigger passenger aircraft?
I hope they do. There aircraft's are very good
Why not? Embraer makes very good aircraft.
Yes, they already built the C-390 military aircraft with an MTOW of 87,000 kg. It's not adaptable to commercial passenger use, but it shows their capability.
They definitely can, but they will not. They have stated this.
@@dmcr9525 They must have their reasons for that. Presumably they think they couldn't make money out of larger aircraft. Boeing and Airbus would be ferocious rivals with deep pockets.
Thanks for the updates DJ
airbus should built the a220 - 500 already, 737 is old tech and gradually becoming obsolete, those clinging to that program are fearfull old companies lacking courage and innovation, unable to adapt to market changes, no wonder newer, bolder airlines are able to pick up and thriving where the older static airlines were slacking.
I think there was the fear that the 220-500 could cut the 320 viability - where the 320 is the most popular airbus out there. But don't hold me to that. That's just iirc.
The 737 isn't becoming obsolete. Those airlines aren't the ones not thriving and not innovating. They still do with 737s in their fleets.
@@nickolliver3021 True. 737 isn't becoming obsolete. It is already a dinosaur.
@@hakanevin8545 the a320 is a dinosaur yet many still order them both.
The true dinosaur plane is the Cessna 172
With boeing being scrunitized closely by the FAA, they have really faltered on production which ultimately leads to inevitable delivery delays. Many carriers now have to find some ways around to offset the shortages of aircrafts in the coming months and years.
Stretch the 220 then we're up to about the MD 80 size with 5 abreast seating might work against the 737. 700
Air Tanzania should seriously consider purchasing Airbus A330neos and A350s as a back-up
Thx to engine problems
Agree
Oh, the A350-1000 doesn't have engine problems? Maybe Airbus will offer them the A330-800 for 75% off. 😂😂
trent 7000 is not different from the trent 1000. a330neo and 787 basically have the same engine except the 7000 has bleed air
@@sainnt Like in Hawaiian Airlines? Wait a minute... That was Boeing 😉
Boeing is the one who is making huge discounts. That is why 787 program did not break even yet after so many years and 1000+ aircraft delivered.
[But I agree that RR engines have problems regardless of the aircraft type]
The current problem at Boeing is not the 787, it’s seat vendor and problem at collins for engine cowling. At least 5 787 sitting without First/business class seats of Lufthansa.
Great plane…basically a Bombardier product. Great Canadian build.
DeHavilland, I'd like to think...
@@michaelosgood9876 Why DeHavilland? They had no role in the A220/C-series design. De Havilland Canada did design the Dash 8 and owns the right to the Q400, seems like the company came back from the dead.
@@thecaynuck de Haviland Canada were also absorbed by Bombardier I believe & were an extremely reputable airframer way back. The now A220 design has 'de Haviland' carved into it, I believe. When Dash 8 came out around 1983, Bombardier were never even heard of in av circles. To me, the now A220 is the next progression from Dash 8 series, which by the way, were de Haviland Canada Dash8s to start with. An airframer that Canada can be proud of
BAE needs to start making commercial airliners again to compete vs Boeing and Airbus.
At least someone shares my opinion 🙂
They could buy Boeing’s civil aircraft operation. You get the impression that Boeing would be glad to see the back of it. They would prefer to be purely a defence contractor.
BAE makes the wings for all Airbus's except for the A220 series........
@@jimbrankin9874 How would that benefit BAE at all Boeing doesn’t have any decent aircraft anymore and the manufacturing facilities are in the wrong country.
Rather than wasting billions on acquiring a failing company it makes more sense to rebuild from the ground up BAE has a good reputation for making great aircraft also Avro,Hawker Siddeley,de Havilland and Vickers are all part of BAE some of the best Aircraft manufacturers to ever exist and BAE has close ties with Rolls-Royce.
Also it would be considered as anti-competitive in the view of the American state as there would no longer be a American aircraft manufacturer BAE is British and Airbus is European.
Also Boeing wouldn’t allow it anyway as BAE is a decent size military contractor in America and is currently in partnership with Lockheed Martin as BAE is a partner in the F-35.
@@brian5154 A220 are still made in Britain in Belfast.
Also technically A320,A330 and A350 wings are made by Airbus UK which BAE does own a stake in but it only owns 20% so is not a majority stakeholder the other 80% is owned by Airbus.
Also BAE and Airbus always work together anyway as Typhoon is 46% Airbus and 33% BAE.
A220-500 stretch to formally replace the A320 and then design an all new narrowbody that spans the A321 size + the gap between it and the A330. Currently in a 3-class config, the 321 does about 170 seats vs 230 for the A330. A new gen plane that can offer 170/200 seats in a long haul config and 220-275 seats in all economy would be ideal while the A220 can cater to up to 180 all economy. Would be a tough portfolio to compete with for Boeing.
100% what I think they will go for, after the Canadian government sells their shares of the program
I’m rather shocked at the A220 stretch even being on the table over a performance in the already in production, A319neo
Haven’t found anything on a recent grounding of 787s anywhere else on the web.
The problem for Airbis is that a proposed A220 stretch would come into direct competition with the A320 neo series. Instead, Airbus should focus on better fuel economy and range for both A220 types and its potential customers.
Very well said .
Bla bla bla...same old saying...say something new
They can't build the A320 neo faster, the A220 is also built in Canada, which is a plus.
For a smaller start up airline and even some larger established Airlines having all your aircraft as variations on a single airframe type reduces the significant cost of maintaining the aircraft. The A220 has a completely separate development history from the other Airbus planes so transferring maintenance skills between the A220 series and say A320 series is a significant 'stretch'. Airbus views a stretch version of the A220 as competition to the A320neo, currently expressed interest in a stretch A220 is primarily from smaller start up airlines thus the development and modification costs would not be covered.
@@chriscohlmeyer4735I agree with you on the perks of operating a single airframe family; typically Southwest and its Boeing 737 fleet, Alaska Airlines, or Ryanair to name a few. But as we have seen, tying yourself to a single aircraft line may also present some challenges.
Even if they wanted to, those airlines are now stuck with their initial strategy, since the cost of diversifying at this point, would be considerable.
Well, the abandonment of the hub abd spoke networks dorsn't really sound so smart if you see that there is not only an airliner, but also a pilot shortage. So I think the point to point strategy doesn't really work so well. So I think the big capacity planes will be back for quite a while.
If you can choose between a direct flight and a hub and spoke I think you're going to pick the direct flight.
Hub and Spoke won't be a thing in 20 years. Point to Point is very much the future.
The number of orders from each manufacturer is honestly incredible,but above all,it's all good.Hugs.
I want Embraer to be Bolder to create a bigger plane to have 737 Max and A320 customers 🙏
Boeing owns 80% of Embraer, bought to stop competition against Boeing- so at a guess EMbraer hands are tied unless Boeing agrees.
I think you should catch up with your info. This deal was broken 3 years ago.. Boeing and Embraer stopped the agreement and they are no longer together. I am sorry to say Boeing doesn't own anything but their own business. Thank God. :)
@@johnchristmas7522 Dead wrong, thankfully there was never any purchase done. Boeing has 0% of Embraer. At leat directly.
@@johnchristmas7522 Maybe you missed that, but Boeing had cold feet at the last moment and didn't invest in Embraer.
Well, that told Mr Christmas! He must have given himself that like. He's also all alone on Christmas day...😀...
DJ why doesn’t Airbus 220 have a 220-200? Also, why don’t they compete with Embraer in the 175 or 195 aircraft?
i never understood Lufthansas recent decision to stay with boeing and not switching to airbus.
The A220 stretch is only a matter of time, the issue is does Airbus retain the 220 existing cockpit architecture thus favouring existing 220 operators or do they adopt the Airbus 3 family cockpit architecture thus favouring their wider customer base. I think this is why Airbus are sitting on their hands whilst 220 operators are making a lot of noise as the better option for Airbus in the medium and long term is to give A220 neo family Airbus 3 family cockpit architecture and thus confirm the A220neo as a replacement for the A319 and A320.
impossible, that would take full re-certification
I hope there'll be a220-500
Lufthansa have so many different aircraft types, and so many of them are old and fuel inefficient. A340-300, A340-600, 747-400, 747-800. Their fleet is so odd, and many planes are so old. The only thing older at Lufthansa is the cabin crew and their seat design.
You list 2 types.
All aircraft should have two engine choices, put the cfm engine on the A220 watch pw buck up its ideas
Do you think you could cover the news with Iberia Taking the a321xlr from Aer Lingus?
Is that news? They are the same company.
@@verttikoo2052 well yea, because Iberia is going to be the first airline to receive the a321xlr. And they already have their destinations figured out.
@@ThatOneSpaniard They are IAG. But yes. For Iberia 321xlr opens new possibilities to fly to South America etc.
@@verttikoo2052 yea, I heard that they are going to fly to IAD and BOS at first with the a321xlr
Wow!
Trent 1000 again! Maybe United knew something when they ordered their 787s with General Electric GEnx engines.
Wait.... We are still having Trent 1000 issues!!??
If Airbus makes a larger A220, it will start cannibalizing the sales of the A320neo line. To some extent, the A220-300 is already doing that to the A319neo, which is too close to it in capacity and has been largely a flop (there are other reasons, of course, but this is one of the most significant). I believe that's the most important reason why Airbus is not in a hurry to make a stretched A220.
Just imagine a bird with rigid wing,787 and 777-8/9 simulate a real wing,flex freely as airstream dynamic changes,the result just like a car shock absorber!😮😊😅🎉😂❤❤
That assumes they have been fitted with all the bolts required
@@johnchristmas7522 aliens in jealous sponsor a culprit to remove some rivets,loosen some bolts,even computer chips are loosen to tarnish manufacturing system of Boeing.
Lufthansa has since ordered 10 A350-1000s in response the delays in certification of the Boeing 777-9. However, it is now facing delays in delivery of the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner. As a result, the airline, in my opinion, should consider ordering the Airbus A330-900 to fill in the gap.
Good to know the A220 remains an in demand aircraft for both passengers and operators. A 500 will come but probably not until after the 2025 timeframe as others have mentioned. Still a good idea though even if it eats into the A320 family product range a bit... Better to have overlap than no product at all, eh Boeing?
Thank you Dj!!
There is no engine for a big A220. The current P&W geared turbofans are too small and rather troublesome and there is no other engine certified for this aircraft.
Really? I guess all those A320’s and A321’s that are Pratt powered must be really under powered. Mind you, they are a troubled engine.
@@rachels209 Different engine family. P&W is a big company.
All A220s use an engine (PW1500G) of which there is only one version. It is a geared turbofan with a very high bypass ratio. It is very quiet, highly fuel efficient and rather unreliable. A220-500 would require a higher output engine. Currently, P&W has not announced such an engine.
You mean the Bombardier
Airbus has larger single aisle aircrafts in their portfolio, why should they stretch the A220 if A320 neo familiy is available? And we all remember, how many companies pre-ordered A380s and how many of them bought one. Yes, you can not compare that completly, but still...
How, why, and to what extent, would a stretched A220 be better than an A319? It wouldn't. This is one reason why Airbus bought the program from Bombardier. Reducing competition is one of the main reasons for most corporate acquisitions.
Boeing CEO just got a 45% payrise, now $32.8m USD. After everything, he gets a 45% payrise.
Incredible.
Lufthansa has operated in a protected space within Germany and I have paid a price with the withdrawal of Ryanair from several German routes. Very little time for national flagcarriers. Germany would do well to fix DB rail first and let competition in it's airspace .
Lufthansa should consider A330-900neo
Yeah
Not going to happen. They are already have 787s which are marginally more profitable to operate.
@@okay_then3337but not safer
@@user-nu1sq2fz8s 787's have never had an incident or hull loss.
The FAA defines slow.
I thought it was an airbus a322
"Amount of aircrafts"? measured in litres?
To be fair, it’s not Boeing’s fault that the engine has issues. If Boeing is to blame for this, then we must also blame Airbus for the PW1000G issues, QF32, and AF66
Ya…they’ve got more than engine problems with their plane..oh look up..what’s that? Oh…just another Boeing door plug.😅
It is always Boeing's fault on this channel
@@Subie-Driver
How’s the weather in Europe?
@@davidcarter4247
Too bad people don’t think properly before they speak/write. Too much anti- Boeing bandwagon.
@@davidcarter4247This is the reason why it is unbelievable that those Boeing managers took the risk to ruin a perfect reputation this way. The 737 is going to be a scar that Boeing will always have to bear.
I am tired of bad news from Boeing. They need to get that stuff fixed now and back on track.
A220 is an RJ where B717 was not.
The ways airlines have been using the A220, at least the -300, don't seem so much like RJ operations any more. I don't see many A220's going to smaller airports like the CRJ, ERJ, E-Jet and turboprops do.
Yes, airlines are trying to cut the cost of operations using RJ’s like the A220 and Embraer eqipment in place of A320 and B737 equipment and using these types in place of A330 and B787 on TATL. Still RJ’s are cramped for us tall pax and have very limited overhead in flight cabin luggage bins. Luckily I can avoid them. The A220 was designed as an RJ ( Bombardier C Series)
Wouldn’t the proposed new a220 affect the sales of the a320neo?
No.
@@soccerguy2433 please explain
Best in the world Airbus👍👍👍
B777X 2026? Dreaming...This plane will have so many gremlins expect issues just like the B787 had.
777x 2025! Why would this have gremlins just like 787 had?
@@nickolliver3021 Perhaps because it's designed and built by incompetent liars managed by crooks?
If Boeing continues to delay the deliveries of the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, Lufthansa, in my opinion, should consider ordering the Airbus A330-900s to fill in the gap!
Airbus is so far behind on deliveries that the A330 would be delivered later than the Dreamliners will. They probably wouldn't get the A330s until 2030.
@@davemiller6055 Do you know that I'm concerned about the issues of Boeing?!
Nothing wrong with 787 it’s a supplier problem
Delivery of Boeing jets should be halted until they fix all the problems because almost every type of jet they make has a problem.
Then so should airbus with their problems. But they can't because the industry has to keep moving
The engine problem is not a Boeing problem, just as the Pratt and Whitney problem is not an Airbus problem.
@@nickolliver3021What problems Airbus have nowadays sticky Nicky
@@nickolliver3021 Last time I checked A220,A320,A321 and A350 are not having problems.
@@jammiedodger7040 neither are 787 737 and 777. So point wasted
Air Tanzania is a very troubled airline (see its Wiki page) that the the Govt contiues to bale out with cash. ATC has a history of aircraft being impounded (in Canada and South Africa) due to unpaid debts as well as investors oulling out at the last minute. Yet air travel demand is growing so its best left to the private sector. Their strategy to use 2 787s to the far east was a good start given growing demand of India and China's massive role in East Africa, and not compete on the European routes was sensible, but not if your planes are grounded. These planes were bought by a Govt holding company and leased to Air Tanzania so its all on the Govt to pick up the tabs. The airline continues to be unable to service certain destinations of the fear of the planes being impounded. Without good management, strategy and long term investment ATC will continue to struggle with what ever aircraft, and Kenya Airways and Ethiopian will continue to dominate the region.
So just ONE 787. What rubbish!!
Lufthansa going Boeing. Nice fail.
Boeing needs a pointy tip at the nose, it is too blunt.
Why can't Airbus make the A200-500 yet? it's because the A320neo exists.
…👍👍👍…
Airbus should build the A220-500. To kill off the Boeing 737 Max jets.
that will never happen
The 777x is already outdated once it arrives - if it wasn’t outdated to begin with.
No it isn't. Airlines want it badly. They know. They just wish they had it already.
@@davemiller6055 they want it badly cause they ordered it and lack quick alternatives. They have been planning and waiting for an eternity for a partially new aircraft.
@@tobiwan001 Airbus makes "partially new" aircraft too. No one makes a clean sheet design every time. The A320 flew first in 1987. The 777 in 1994. The 777 is newer than the A320. No airline is viewing the 777X as outdated.
@@tobiwan001 Keep in mind aircraft developments take a decade in most cases or longer. The Bombardier C-Series (now A220) is one of the newest and most modern aircraft in the sky but was first planned in 2008, first thought of around 2004 and first flew in 2013. It was first flown by an airline in 2016. Embraer E2 first drafted in 2010, flew in 2016. The modern 787 and A350 were first conceived in 2003/2004 and didn't see service until 2011 and 2013, yet they feel brand new. Similar idea with the A320neo and 737 Max, they feel brand new but have been developed for a while now. 777x was an early 2010's concept, so its not obselete, unless you consider all the other aircraft I mentioned obselete. And there's demand for these aircraft for decades, Airbus is still manufacturing the A320ceo original series, which is a 1980's design.
@@thecaynuck I know that. But the 777X development was started after the A350neo and is using an is an updated version of the 777. I know that they are updating parts of the wing but it is not a completely new aircraft. And it is years behind schedule and airlines are already suing.
The next generation of engines is only a few years away. That’s a quite narrow window for the 777x.
BYE BYE Boeing.
It is funny to hear arguments that the existence of Boeing is important to the aviation industry - which I strongly understand, believe, and subscribe - alongside the Airbus A220, the exact aircraft project which was sold cheaply from Bombardier to Airbus, due to Boeing pressuring Bombardier out of the market.
I say this because, the same argument that Boeing used to pressure Bombardier, public funding, I think it will be the same which will save Boeing from bankruptcy.
Albeit, the US Federal Government will use other ways to indirectly fund Boeing, either for a military airplane (e.g., a Freight version of an already tested airliner), or through another Air Force One major order; or even both.
Hence, I see this as highly hypocrite, and a sign that our capitalist World really needs a major overall.
Many people profited off many bad decision at Boeing, but very few will now invest in saving Boeing.
Is if fair that the same company, from which some shareholders profited off, now must be saved with money coming from us, taxpayers?
No, I honestly think we really need to rethink this!
Boeing chose that engine. It's on Boeing.
Absolutely agree ..
Airbus chose a crap engine as well, totally on them unfortunately too..
How were they supposed to know?
@@CB3Pete which engine are you talking about? The PW1000G series? Airbus (some A320neos, Bombardier (with the C-series, now A220), Embraer (E2) and some other smaller manufacturers have used that engine.
Maybe the "Board members" of Boeing should be comprised of their largest customers 🤔
Not. They should be third party to keep the check and balance. Win win for everyone.
We don't wanna upset our French Union Workers so we won't build the A220-500, wink wink
Hi
Esg hiring practices rearing their ugly head?
First Person
Boeing's problems today are reminiscent of the late '70s-'80s era of American car companies back in my younger days: Terrible design and quality and lazy factory workers - one of whom notoriously left a beer can behind the rear door panel of a Ford (Fairmont?) sedan during assembly, which was only discovered later by a mechanic. 😮
Why do you refer to the companies with "your" pronouns?
Boeing🤣🤣😛🤪😝🤑🤡