Ilneval sounds like a really great place to start for a half-orc character: be a half-orc, despised by other orcs, finds an adventuring party, finds some level of brotherhood with them, but then realizes Ilneval is counter-intuitive to that, then he abandons that god to become a paladin of Tyr or something.
I appreciate these pantheon specific breakdowns. In my setting I have religious schisms between tribes based on the primacy of certain gods. One group even had a cult to Yrtrus that considered radioactive metal to be a holy gift.
"and it wields a deadly broadsword that causes profuse bleeding in those it strikes" I think it's rather amusing that a sharp object is enchanted to cause things it hits to bleed. That's a very redundant ability when you get down to it.
When it comes to orcs specifically, I think the argument to humanize them is strongest since, to my understanding, even their Tolkienian origins regarded them with a certain limited degree of pity despite them being fundamentally evil - or, rather, perhaps _because_ they were fundamentally evil. So twisted were they by Morgoth - which was something that was, mind you, completely outside their control - that they're simply incapable of good, which is something only further reinforced by how often they're used as nothing more than tools of war. Killing an orc could almost be regarded as like putting down a rabid dog; it's not only heroic since it spares any who may have otherwise suffered at its hands, but outright merciful compared to letting it lead its miserable and cruel existence. Because of this, there's a certain tragedy to orcs within the context of Tolkien which inherently makes some people want to see them "break out" of this malevolent nature - as it's a far more hopeful and optimistic fate for them than the aforementioned alternatives.
Orc's are I feel, and I believe Tolkien (who did construct the Orc, almost though not entirely from whole cloth) see Orc's as the lowest point that humanity could reach, nothing but war, conquest, and if your lucky wanton industry that exists to facilitate those things. Orc's should be an example of what happens whene a culture becomes so obsessed with power dynamics, and the notion of Might makes Right, that nothing of their humanity remains.
Maybe, but it’s not the orcs that move the industry, it’s those controlling them. Left to their own devices they separate into tribes and fight each other over scraps. They’re craven without the brotherhood to build civilisation on their own, outcasts if you will. They’re just the bad guys because they’re bad.
Even Tolkien rejected the idea that the orcs he created for middle were capable of redemption. He said that every living soul has the potential to rise up and atone he didn't like the idea of them being irredeemable
Love Orcs, they were actually the main antagonists for one of my campaigns I ran. Usually the Orcs of my world are nomadic and attack villages and caravans just to survive, However, suddenly out of the blue they start to become organized and became a serious threat. The orcs of my world had a pantheon they forgot due to how their society became destabilized and lost most of their history. Their main god was Nnar the Grotty, came to be because the goddess of love and fertility cheated on her husband. The husband, the God of War, discovered this and was obviously furious. He ripped the child from her womb and cast it from the heavens before falling into a river of tar in the underworld.
It's worth noting that while the Orc deities are evil, the dogma and the followers need not be. An orc mercenary protecting logging sites from elvish attack could pray and sacrifice to Gruumsh. a weightlifter and wrestler who lives in human lands could dedicate every victory to Baghtru. A priestess of Luthic could run an orphanage, raising children of all races to be proper, tough orcs. A captain of Ilneval could lead a special unit of half-orcs, ensuring they got the best missions and honors. None of these characters would be truly evil, and some might have some overall measure of good intentions.
Esper thanks for putting this video up buddy. My next session, my player characters will be travelling to Orc dominated region of my homebrew setting. Tons of useful information here my man!
@@esperthebard Im quite 50/50 with published and homebrewed deities within my setting. I'll probably use these as the framework and add other in the future.
We've been educated by the dear bard about demons, devils, evil gods, chaotic gods, and neutral gods, and now I say, the stars are right, and the time is at hand! For a video about good gods in D&D.
Orcs probably have the most interesting pantheon of gods in my opinion frankly makes them incredible antagonist in a d&d story as well as the interpretation of the lore to make "good" orcs is entirely possible but unlikely most likely good orcs would have to be removed from the gods or unknowing from there pantheon 🤔
I recall watch a Mr. Welch video about orcs in Mystara: they're something else then the typical orc (a strain of beast men that were originally created by a Chaotic immortal by reincarnating the most evil mortal souls to server as her army) but he did mention there was a relatively small group of the more typical D&D orc that were allowed to settle in Mystara. As soon as the typical D&D orcs were cut off from their pantheon they tended to become Lawful (good).
Good video indeed. I suggest to read the monster mythology update that Aulddragon did in his blog. In this enormous work there are the AD&D 2e information for gods of monsters(dragons, beholders, orcs, trolls etc.).
Honestly, I made a world so far where some orcs have stopped following grummsh and started finding places to settle down. although there are some who still VERY much serve Grummsh to the highest bitter and will 100% commit genocide if he calls it, some orc tribes have even decided to move into some cities (minus elven ones, obviously) and have even been hired by certain military groups as mercenary bands or other related jobs. they also, funnily enough, have joined forces with the globlinoid races, as well as races like Ogres, Ettins, Trolls, etc. to make what is now called the Orcen-Goblin clans (some races are still excluded, such as gnolls or drow).
Dope video. For my half orc’s background I created a lost / forgotten neutral god to be part of his arc. All orc gods are evil, but only because they were made that way. There is room to create other paths and still nod at the old lore
In a way, yes, but in many other ways, a dysfunctional, pathological family full of abuse, who regularly kills its weaker members and raises its members to hate most other races and to raid, rape, and pillage without cease.
Have there be depictions of d&d orcs or their deities as large pig, boar or other porcine beings? Cuz series like sao war of underworld, Kuma bear, konosuba, Peter grill, reincarnated as a slime and so on depict orcs as porcine people...for...some reason...
Spoiler space Your top pick, Shargaas, reminds me of not a demon lord but of Pathfinder's Four Horsemen, leaders of the neutral evil daemons, as that entire race is focused on the death of everything in the multiverse.
@@esperthebard I'm guessing that they may have thought, "Devils are interesting. Demons are interesting. Daemons are meh. What to do? Well, neutral evil = pure evil. How can we make them the most evil?"
It's incredible how much Warhammer took from dnd in the 80 anda 90 nurgle it's a copy of the orc deasease god and I think it was grimgor it's a copy of the patron god of orcs among a lot of things
I made an orc god for my setting named Roa Jogen and he's a brutal war god that can crit on 11-20 (stacked epic boons), but can also be a really chill guy and wants you to try mushrooms.
Do you really need to add all the loud rock music to your videos, I sometimes listen to them while falling asleep and all the loud music makes that impossible
Orcs went from fairly weak disposable dungeon fodder who were lazy brutes to Hyper strong frenzied barbarians with insatiable blood just to Stoic green tribes man with samurai like ethos Let WoW orcs be WoW orcs and DnD orcs be thier own thing
Real life. Perfectly good cave: *exist* Humans: "Lets build a house." DnD Perfectly good cave: *Exists* Humans: "We've got to get away from the goddess of caves!" Real life 0 DnD 1. See this is how you build a good story. Give things an explanation.
Ilneval sounds like a really great place to start for a half-orc character: be a half-orc, despised by other orcs, finds an adventuring party, finds some level of brotherhood with them, but then realizes Ilneval is counter-intuitive to that, then he abandons that god to become a paladin of Tyr or something.
Oh hey love your art.
I appreciate these pantheon specific breakdowns.
In my setting I have religious schisms between tribes based on the primacy of certain gods.
One group even had a cult to Yrtrus that considered radioactive metal to be a holy gift.
"and it wields a deadly broadsword that causes profuse bleeding in those it strikes"
I think it's rather amusing that a sharp object is enchanted to cause things it hits to bleed. That's a very redundant ability when you get down to it.
It's also brutal in causing profuse blood loss weakens the target.
Maybe its a magic anticoagulant?
@@yogsothoth7594coated in rat poison?
Redundant? How is a racecar designed to go faster redundant? Isn't that the whole point of a racecar?
Love the Salvatore quote at the beginning.
I love how weirdly specific this video's topic is.
Me too
This video came out at the perfect time, I had just begun searching for information on the orc gods.
When it comes to orcs specifically, I think the argument to humanize them is strongest since, to my understanding, even their Tolkienian origins regarded them with a certain limited degree of pity despite them being fundamentally evil - or, rather, perhaps _because_ they were fundamentally evil. So twisted were they by Morgoth - which was something that was, mind you, completely outside their control - that they're simply incapable of good, which is something only further reinforced by how often they're used as nothing more than tools of war. Killing an orc could almost be regarded as like putting down a rabid dog; it's not only heroic since it spares any who may have otherwise suffered at its hands, but outright merciful compared to letting it lead its miserable and cruel existence.
Because of this, there's a certain tragedy to orcs within the context of Tolkien which inherently makes some people want to see them "break out" of this malevolent nature - as it's a far more hopeful and optimistic fate for them than the aforementioned alternatives.
Orc's are I feel, and I believe Tolkien (who did construct the Orc, almost though not entirely from whole cloth) see Orc's as the lowest point that humanity could reach, nothing but war, conquest, and if your lucky wanton industry that exists to facilitate those things. Orc's should be an example of what happens whene a culture becomes so obsessed with power dynamics, and the notion of Might makes Right, that nothing of their humanity remains.
But does that not make the potential for their redemption all that more beautiful, let alone when it is actually achieved?
@@gasmonkey1000 If.
Maybe, but it’s not the orcs that move the industry, it’s those controlling them. Left to their own devices they separate into tribes and fight each other over scraps. They’re craven without the brotherhood to build civilisation on their own, outcasts if you will. They’re just the bad guys because they’re bad.
Even Tolkien rejected the idea that the orcs he created for middle were capable of redemption. He said that every living soul has the potential to rise up and atone he didn't like the idea of them being irredeemable
@@andrewthemaroon8608 Wait, ya saying Tolkien thought they could be redeemed or that they couldn't be redeemed?
Love Orcs, they were actually the main antagonists for one of my campaigns I ran. Usually the Orcs of my world are nomadic and attack villages and caravans just to survive, However, suddenly out of the blue they start to become organized and became a serious threat. The orcs of my world had a pantheon they forgot due to how their society became destabilized and lost most of their history. Their main god was Nnar the Grotty, came to be because the goddess of love and fertility cheated on her husband. The husband, the God of War, discovered this and was obviously furious. He ripped the child from her womb and cast it from the heavens before falling into a river of tar in the underworld.
Some of this art is so fucking cool. People’s talent always amazes me!
It's worth noting that while the Orc deities are evil, the dogma and the followers need not be.
An orc mercenary protecting logging sites from elvish attack could pray and sacrifice to Gruumsh.
a weightlifter and wrestler who lives in human lands could dedicate every victory to Baghtru.
A priestess of Luthic could run an orphanage, raising children of all races to be proper, tough orcs.
A captain of Ilneval could lead a special unit of half-orcs, ensuring they got the best missions and honors.
None of these characters would be truly evil, and some might have some overall measure of good intentions.
Esper thanks for putting this video up buddy. My next session, my player characters will be travelling to Orc dominated region of my homebrew setting. Tons of useful information here my man!
Right on! Are you planning to use the D&D orc gods or create new ones of your own?
@@esperthebard Im quite 50/50 with published and homebrewed deities within my setting. I'll probably use these as the framework and add other in the future.
We've been educated by the dear bard about demons, devils, evil gods, chaotic gods, and neutral gods, and now I say, the stars are right, and the time is at hand!
For a video about good gods in D&D.
Pelor: "You might as well just give me first prize already."
I am hoping to make videos about good-aligned and lawful-aligned gods before too long ;)
@@esperthebard We usually only hear about the horrifying and antagonistic forces in D&D, so it would be welcome.
Orcs probably have the most interesting pantheon of gods in my opinion frankly makes them incredible antagonist in a d&d story as well as the interpretation of the lore to make "good" orcs is entirely possible but unlikely most likely good orcs would have to be removed from the gods or unknowing from there pantheon 🤔
I recall watch a Mr. Welch video about orcs in Mystara: they're something else then the typical orc (a strain of beast men that were originally created by a Chaotic immortal by reincarnating the most evil mortal souls to server as her army) but he did mention there was a relatively small group of the more typical D&D orc that were allowed to settle in Mystara.
As soon as the typical D&D orcs were cut off from their pantheon they tended to become Lawful (good).
I kind of feel like shargaas could be just an avatar or aspect of the demon lord of undeath Orcus. At any rate they are quite similar.
26:45 That dude is straight up riding a bat.
Good video indeed. I suggest to read the monster mythology update that Aulddragon did in his blog. In this enormous work there are the AD&D 2e information for gods of monsters(dragons, beholders, orcs, trolls etc.).
Honestly, I made a world so far where some orcs have stopped following grummsh and started finding places to settle down. although there are some who still VERY much serve Grummsh to the highest bitter and will 100% commit genocide if he calls it, some orc tribes have even decided to move into some cities (minus elven ones, obviously) and have even been hired by certain military groups as mercenary bands or other related jobs. they also, funnily enough, have joined forces with the globlinoid races, as well as races like Ogres, Ettins, Trolls, etc. to make what is now called the Orcen-Goblin clans (some races are still excluded, such as gnolls or drow).
Dope video.
For my half orc’s background I created a lost / forgotten neutral god to be part of his arc. All orc gods are evil, but only because they were made that way. There is room to create other paths and still nod at the old lore
Malacath is the BEST Orc God & the most morally good.
or Gork and Mork?
@@ManwendlilGork and Mork are too busy fighting each other
You're NEVER "too busy" doing what you love.
This have become my new favorite page!!! Crush your competition with S M Zeus.
Thanks. This fits my world well and helps me to explain things.
Didn't Obould Many-Arrows technically become a god or at least an exarch?
Finally, It needed to be said.
The orc pantheon are not just gods who give benefits in exchange for servitude but they care for their people. They seem like a family
In a way, yes, but in many other ways, a dysfunctional, pathological family full of abuse, who regularly kills its weaker members and raises its members to hate most other races and to raid, rape, and pillage without cease.
@@esperthebard an orc family after all
I'm a big fan of these deity videos. Fascinating stuff.
Evil is only _"good"_ to test the sharpness of your blade.
Shargoss sounds like the Most Emo
Any chance we’ll get a Druid subclass ranking?
I've been trying to hold out until the new PHB comes out to do more class rankings.
OH.... Hello a new video.
The orc Shadow God seems to be more along the lines with death God of disease seems to be more along the lines of the undead
Have there be depictions of d&d orcs or their deities as large pig, boar or other porcine beings? Cuz series like sao war of underworld, Kuma bear, konosuba, Peter grill, reincarnated as a slime and so on depict orcs as porcine people...for...some reason...
Yeah, oldschool D&D "1st and 2nd edition" had pig-faced orcs.
@@esperthebard oh. Cool. Thank you.
@blakewyattdunfee2 they are technically a different race of orc from the East of the continent
@@nerofoxkrell huh.
"For some reason" is that Tolkien derived 'Orc' from _ork_ (think Orkney Islands), which is the Celtic onomatopoeia for a pig oinking/snorting.
I love this channel
DO A VIDEO SPECIFICALLY ON HALF-ORCS
Spoiler space
Your top pick, Shargaas, reminds me of not a demon lord but of Pathfinder's Four Horsemen, leaders of the neutral evil daemons, as that entire race is focused on the death of everything in the multiverse.
Huh that's odd, I wonder why Paizo completely changed the meaning of what a daemon is.
@esperthebard Well, they don't have the Blood War. Also, there's already Charon, so they just added three more Horsemen à la Revelation.
@@esperthebard I'm guessing that they may have thought, "Devils are interesting. Demons are interesting. Daemons are meh. What to do? Well, neutral evil = pure evil. How can we make them the most evil?"
How's the large scale campaign idea coming
It's incredible how much Warhammer took from dnd in the 80 anda 90 nurgle it's a copy of the orc deasease god and I think it was grimgor it's a copy of the patron god of orcs among a lot of things
I made an orc god for my setting named Roa Jogen and he's a brutal war god that can crit on 11-20 (stacked epic boons), but can also be a really chill guy and wants you to try mushrooms.
The better goddess of the orcs is without a doubt luthic. She's the backbone of the orc pantheon. But the worst would be ol one eye. 😅
Is there a good orc god? Kind of like there is a single good drow goddess?
If there was grumesh killed them 😅
Orcs are the humans with all the good aspects removed.
What is it? What do you smell?
Do you really need to add all the loud rock music to your videos, I sometimes listen to them while falling asleep and all the loud music makes that impossible
Would the orc gods still be bad if Gruumsh was not screwed over by the other gods?
Orcs are so silly. Thanks for the videos, Esper.
And you left put 1e/2e. Dragon magazine..
Orcs went from fairly weak disposable dungeon fodder who were lazy brutes to
Hyper strong frenzied barbarians with insatiable blood just to
Stoic green tribes man with samurai like ethos
Let WoW orcs be WoW orcs and DnD orcs be thier own thing
You mean gork and mork lol
This guy has a PhD in Dnd, haha
Real life.
Perfectly good cave: *exist*
Humans: "Lets build a house."
DnD
Perfectly good cave: *Exists*
Humans: "We've got to get away from the goddess of caves!"
Real life 0 DnD 1.
See this is how you build a good story. Give things an explanation.