UK's £18 bn Mega Project: Will the North be Betrayed Again?
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2022
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So far, on Railways Explained we dedicated several videos to the area of the United Kingdom. They are related to the construction of the Channel Tunnel, projects High Speed 1 and High Speed 2, and even there was one comprehensive video about the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail).
Today our topic is a project of an exciting name - the Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR).
This project represents a counterweight to all earlier mentioned UK projects, which all relate to the southern part of the country. The Northern Powerhouse Rail is a proposal that aims not only to improve the railway service but to become a trigger to boost the economic development of northern England.
After years of revisions and negotiations, a final NPR strategy was agreed upon by all stakeholders in 2021, and it set out a vision of new and upgraded rail connections across the North. It includes:
- a new line between Liverpool and Manchester via central Warrington,
- upgrades and journey-time improvements between Manchester and Sheffield,
- a new line between Manchester and Leeds via a new station in central Bradford,
- upgrades to the East Coast Mainline between Leeds and Newcastle,
- upgrades and electrification between Leeds and Hull and Leeds and Sheffield, and
- connection of Sheffield to the HS2 Eastern Leg and Leeds.
Full background story, including the socio-economic rationale behind NPR, but also different preceding similar initiatives, detailed scope, projected costs and benefits, current issues, and political obstacles, were all addressed in the video.
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#railway #engineering #construction
i find quite funny how the UK is considering HSR in places where there was not even electrification before... it's like they woke up and realized it's no longer the 1800s
I think it is because, in part, it's easier to justify spending billions on a new highspeed rail line when the alternative is spending slightly fewer billions to electrify an existing mainline that will see no improvement in linespeed and only minor capacity increases. That's not to say that electrification doesn't have benefits, but by comparison, a new HSR has greater benefits than electrification of existing lines.
@@startrekwarsmixguy idk in italy we have been constantly doubletracking and electrifying our regional network for decades, and we aren't famous for being particularly good with money.
@@herlescraft That's exactly why though. The Conservative party have (or rather had) a reputation for being good with money and reducing spending. Large infrastructure projects don't fit within that remit unless the price tag can be justified, and even then it's not a guarantee that a project will go ahead. Additionally, the UK's small loading gauge means that electrification often requires the replacement of a large number of bridges and other infrastructure which makes electrification very expensive. The appetite for that kind of spending within the tory party is practically non-existant.
@@startrekwarsmixguy In other words, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing!
@@Inkyminkyzizwoz Precisely.
Northern Powerhouse Rail shows the lack of the government's understanding of the 'North' of England. As someone from the North East, it's tiring to see the north of England stop at York and not go any further up. Whenever someone from the South/government refers to the 'North' or 'Northerners', they forget there is an entire second half above York that is crying out for investment too but we are just the no man's land between the South's oppression and Scotland.
I completely agree, sometimes the government refers to York as Mongolia because they say it's in the middle of nowhere
Im from Norfolk and got called a Northerner the otherday by someone from kent. People have no realistic perspective.
True. I have always wondered why, to our government, the 'north' only seems to consist of the M62 corridor from Manchester to Leeds.
Newcastle here. I regularly drive between Newcastle and Plymouth and so get to see how different regions are doing. I agree - once you get north of York it's like the land that money forgot.
I understand your view but I want to push back in a few ways (not to say your wrong so much as to say the north east isn't unique)
The first is that a lot of versions of power house rail would use the exist 200km/h corridor form York to Newcastle. That already high speed to a lot of people
The Second is "south": Newcastle to Manchester is similar in connectivity and distance as Bristol and Brighton (about 150miles or 3 hours by car or rail). Meanwhile Cornwall is so far from London that they put on a night train, and form Norwich to London by rail takes around 1:50 similar to York.
The for the IPRS stat at 2:00 London is in the UK average and if you dig in to the data we find that the other Southern regions were equally under served as the North and Midlands of England (the East Midlands and South West fall below the North East )
The post-IRP Northern Powerhouse Rail plans are deeply embarrassing and totally miss the point of high speed rail in the UK. The whole point has always been that by building a dedicated corridor for express trains, HUGE amounts of capacity can be freed up on the existing lines (in this case, the transpennine line) to run much more frequent local, regional, and freight services. This applies not just for the mainlines, but any feeder lines as well. The IRP completely ignores all of this and focuses entirely on journey times (which aren't actually that important when compared to capacity). Bradford also loses out massively as a result of these plans, with it being a massive population centre with very poor transport links.
The existing trans-pennine corridor runs through high population centres and could/should make a very important commuter rail link, with high capacity trains running at frequent intervals, which would only be possible if NPR is delivered in full. In the post-IRP plans, these places will get a reduction in capacity, as they will be running more, faster trains, that don't stop at many (or any!) of the intermediate stations which already get a shocking level of service. This is all just an example of one line, but the same applies to a whole bunch of lines (not least in the east midlands and anything remotely connected to the ECML since the eastern leg of HS2 was scrapped). Overall this betrayal should be called out for what it is: A deeply embarrassing attempt at penny-pinching that if done wrong (which it really looks like it might be) could actually end up leaving some areas of the north with a WORSE rail service than they have now!
A Trans-pennine crossrail is needed.
Liverpool-York is such a lucrative corridor.
@@davidty2006 Agreed, but let's not confuse crossrail schemes with high speed railways. A 'crossrail' is a heavy-rail commuter link through the centre of a city with semi-frequent stops along the way that also links to existing commuter lines either side of the city. Examples of crossrails that need to be build (outside of London) include the Manchester Picc-Vic tunnel and some sort of Bradford Crossrail linking Bradford Interchange and Forster Square stations.
It is almost the polar opposite of what I think you're talking about, i.e. a dedicated high speed rail corridor which has limited stops (only in the city centres or maybe at airport or parkway stations).
Both are very much needed but it's important to note that they are very different things and should be treated as such.
The politics of this is it looks like Andrew Gilligan a reporter who worked for Boris Johnson but has a personal interest in transport was behind this decision.
He was against HS2 and seems to have a aversion to high speed rail and moreover just doesn't get what it's for, as you said capacity as much as speed..
Understand much of the journey times improvements in the IRP can only be done by reducing the amount of stopping trains on the existing lines it uses as alternatives to high speed rail .
The
@@neilgwynne5158 hit the nail on the head there!
@@davidty2006 Trans-pennine highspeed Tube notwork is needed across the north to link up all cities.
I think it's another case of 'you've got to spend money to save money'. Underfunding the project will just drive costs up because it costs more the longer the project is dragged on for, and if funding is always an issue then they can't just get on with the work. And furthermore, the actual benefit of doing the project in the first place will be lost if they keep scaling it down, so we're literally getting something that's worse for a higher cost.
Exactly, what no one says is that HS2 is only taking so long to build is because the government didn't not want to spend more money on it on a per year bases than Crossrail. Which means entire sections of HS2 that could be work on to day aren't being worked on simply to keep it with in the yearly budget. Which means build times is longer putting it at a bigger risk of inflation increasing costs. An cost of on HS2 has likely increase by 10% + simply because of today inflation, which could have been avoided if they started construction in 2012 instead of 2020. An one of the reasons it was started in 2020 because they didn't want to fund it why still spending money on crossrail.
Q: Will the North be betrayed again?
A: Yes.
Something you forgot to mention, is that the current plan for trains going through Manchester, involves playing spin the train in Manchester (terminus rather than through station).
😤🤬😩
No way! That's insane
An rather than do it with tunnels they want to put it on viaducts. It should be tunnels and it should be a through station.
There are through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly. Unfortunately only 2 of them. It's primarily at terminal station.
I live in Hull in East Yorkshire and the government won't even electrify the line between Hull and Selby they seem to forget that we are in the North too.
Short answer to the title is ‘yes’. We will. There is country north of Manchester Liverpool and york that seem to go through neglect because the government just don’t care.
Yes,next question
I travel to London every few weeks for work. 9 times out of10 it takes me longer to get from central Manchester to my local station in Greater Manchester than from London to Manchester.
Successive government philosophies have dictated that because the north of England's GDP is lower than London and the South East it receives less spending on transport infrastructure. Poor transport infrastructure means that the north of England is less attractive for industrial and economic investment. This circle of madness just goes around and around and around.
This is my first video of yours, and I just want to thank you for the extremely informative, well ordered and high quality video!
Keep up the amazing work, I’ll be binging your content now 😉
As usual I see a lot of comments (and even part of the video) concentrate on HSR meaning reduced travel times, sometimes only implied but this nonetheless, whereas it is really about capacity, just as HS2 was meant to benefit, freeing up the existing lines for more regular local capacity and freight by putting high speed trains onto entirely new lines thus creating the increase in capacity.
The problem is that with the scanning back of HS2, which the public still hasn't been informed of by politicians (mainly Tory ones), mainly because they are ignorant of the benefits, don't want it going through "their" patch and it's easy to win votes and thus retain their seats and cushy jobs by stirring up a hornet's nest in opposition to it, making the argument, just like in the Brexit campaign that you could just spend the money on the NHS instead (they really don't want to spend money on anything and thus the UK is on the decline and has been since 2008).
The UK government even under Boris Johnson scanned back HS2 basically making it a London-Birmingham-Manchester project, completely ignoring the huge benefits that would have been achieved for the East Midlands and Yorkshire. What has not been planned as the scaled back Northern Powerhouse Rail is basically a Manchester-Leeds extension of this line, albeit a very poor one, completely screwing Bradford (and Sheffield) in the process. What has been called to be mentioned in this video is that between Leeds and Manchester are the Pennines, a range of hills that form the backbone of England. The Leeds-Manchester line is a very busy commuter corridor, I don't see just electrifying, or even double tracking working to provide the same benefits.
So in summary I don't see the current plan actually being delivered, and by 2050, are you kidding me? It is giving the North as cheap as possible an upgrade not actually connecting it much better than before and not improving capacity by taking the high speed trains off the commuter corridor. Again the North gets the scraps whilst London gets a huge boost. HS2 was never about travel times to London, it should have been built from the North going Southwards, and basically only now building the part that mirrors the West Coast Mainline is a joke, but I'd expect nothing less from the Tories, they just don't care about the North!!! Rant over!!!
100% agree with everything that you said . I am just hoping that if Labour get into power for a couple of terms that they will put shovels in the ground on HS3 from Liverpool to Hull via Bradford and York, linking into HS2 via Sheffield and the East Midlands . The economic benefits would be transformative. People who say it’s a vanity project and the money should be put onto the black hole of the NHS are selfish and have zero vision.
If it realy was about capacity then why run at 200 mph ? At 100 mph trains could be made to run closer together creating more capacity .
Part of the problem with capacity is that you have High Speed ECML / WCML services running on the same routes as regional services and local stopping services. In order to make that work you need the slower trains to get out of the way for the faster ones to get through. By moving the faster services onto their own dedicated lines you can increase capacity of both faster and slower trains. Sometimes this can be done by increasing it from 2 tracks to 4 tracks, but that isn't possible everywhere.
I'd like to see more stopping services and the reopening of some of the lines closed by Beeching, but HSR on dedicated lines must be a part of the solution otherwise we're just going to be recreating the same problem.
@@citizenmilitia1 Trains are fixed guideway and are more energy and cost efficient when sequences of trains average the same speeds . It is a strange idea that trains need to travel at different speeds like autos , airplanes and boats and i guess that is why people expect trains to do that too .
@lasse Peterson, you've basically just agreed with me. Trains that are on the same line need to travel at the same speed in order to increase frequency. The big problem is the intercity trains sharing with regional and stopping services, so by moving them onto dedicated lines they allow you to increase capacity across the network
I'm a bit late to this but I've been waiting for this since the HS2 video. As someone who lives in Leeds, I find it very frustrating that the Government keeps going back on its promises. Northern Powerhouse Rail has been announced and reannounced numerous times without a concrete plan. There is still lots of uncertainty over this project including how and when it will be built and what the exact route will be. However, I hope that as HS2 gets built with passive provision for NPR connections e.g. near Liverpool, it will give the Government more of a reaspn to proceed with the project, whatever form it may take. Lets hope it gets built in the end. Thanks for the video and keep up the good work👍😊
The £96bn claim is quite frankly an insult, because it includes what's already being spent on the bits of HS2 and NPR that are going ahead, as well as transpennine and Midland electrification, both of which have already been promised and cancelled several times, so in fact almost none of that figure is new money!
A wealthy country like the UK should settle for nothing less than a high-speed line to Edinburgh. There are 3 or 4 EasyJet flights from Luton to Edinburgh per day alone. Just imagine how much less CO2 would be emitted if all those people were transferred onto trains.
On a good day, some trains just take 4.5hrs and, if you include security and waiting, is almost as fast as flying!
Add the other companies flying from Edinburgh and Glasgow to all London airports and the figures are just ridiculous.
And then you get the weak and ignorant populace wanting even HS2 cancelled, using trite phrases like 'white elephant' and 'vanity project'. It is a disgrace that the HS2 link to leeds has been cancelled, but many call for all of it to be. It simply does not matter what the projects cost, including overruns. Whatever the cost it is worth it. Not only that but we should also be constructing in parallel from Scotland. Over the last 7 years I have despaired at the UK, and am actively looking at options to leave
As someone who lives in the north of the England I can say that rail travel is absolutely awful
As someone who is working on both the Transpennine Route Upgrade and the East Coast Digitalisation Programme this has been really insightful for me. Would love to see you do a video on the East Coast Mainline Digital Signalling Upgrade?
Can't beat SNCF of the TGVs high speed double deck trains of INOUI and OUIGO in France!
I'd love to see rebuilding of some of the old routes closed by Beeching. For example, you could connect Bradford/Barnsley/Doncaster (3 major cities that currently have no connections) and you could do so using existing trackbed by connecting old lines closed by Beeching and old lines that were used only for Coal. My preferred route would be as follows;
Bradford Interchange
Low Moor
Cleckheaton
Heckmondwike
Darton
Barnsley
Manvers
Goldthorpe Interchange (I'd create a new station to the south where both lines intersect and replace the existing)
Barnburgh
Doncaster
>reads title
>yes
>closes video
if anyone is interested to explore a new HSR (high-speed rail) design that will enable nations to readily afford & quickly develop their own HSR networks for significantly far less costs-development, operational & maintenance, etc... while being faster & safer.... perhaps we can trade notes!
Policy makers should start by looking at Uzbekistan, the poorest country in the world with high-speed rail. And they're even working on adding new high-speed sections to the line! Speaking of which, Uzbekistan should get a detailed examination here on RE.
@@wyqtor the country that spends the least per mile for HSR is Spain!!! Unless you want to find a way to perfect maglev technology.
Can you make a video about train's maintenance service schedule, their intervals and all stuff related to this? Would be helpful
Of course we will be and we've all long accepted that fact.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Always.
Even Longer Answer: There's nothing more cursed than a Tory from the North of England.
There is something more cursed, Labour wasting more public money 👍😝
Exactly
Yep of course we'll be. Many infrastructure projects are already being delayed again, funds are being diverted to London. Interesting the sudden noise has started on Crossrail 2.
For HS2 railways the longest tunnel project the Ireland side the mostly build from Belfast - Dundalk - Dublin (the Irish Railways and NI Railways coorporations megaproject for HS2 cross-border high-speed trains in Ireland)
The UK needs coast to coast transport infrastructure.
You should be able to have a fast efficient service between the cities.
Cornwall has a monopoly train service, GWR that's hugely expensive if you want to travel out of it.
Betrayed? That's an emotive title. To be clear:
1) Nobody had promised the North of England anything. Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR) was a concept promoted by Transport for the North (TfN), a government-commissioned quango consisting of interested parties from the relevant local authorities, who were tasked with recommending transport options for the region. Unsurprisingly, they came up with an extensive wish-list (which also included some enormous road schemes), all of which was unfunded and depended upon central government (taxpayers') money. TfN's preferred suggestion for NPR was, needless to say, the most extravagant possible option. At no point did any government commit to delivering this.
2) The government then asked the National Infrastructure Commission (NIC), a wholly independent body composed of experts from across business and industry, to look at a range of rail options, including TfN's preferred choice, and assess their economic merits using the same methodology as was applied to HS2. The NIC concluded that a modified version of NPR would deliver almost all of the benefits of the full NPR, but at far less cost - and this was the option which they recommended.
3) The government accepted the NIC's recommendations in full.
4) The NIC's recommendations represent the biggest single rail investment made in the North of England since the nineteenth century. Not only do they entail the construction of a brand new high speed line for roughly two thirds of the NPR route between Liverpool and Leeds, but they also includes a major upgrade of the residual legacy sections, not to mention the full electrification of the Midland Mainline and further upgrades to the East Coast Mainline. Some cities, notably Huddersfield, Leicester, Nottingham, Warrington and Derby fare better from the NIC's plans than they did from TfN's plans.
5) The NIC's recommendations can be delivered sooner than TfN's plans, and integrate better with the existing rail network.
6) The eastern limb of HS2 was indeed truncated at East Midlands Parkway "pending further assessment of the best way to deliver services to Leeds". This is hardly surprising for all sorts of reasons, namely:
1) Continuous bickering over the best route through South Yorkshire and the options for serving Sheffield;
2) The excellent journey-times that could be offered on the ECML;
3) The limited capacity at HS2 Euston;
4) The unsatisfactory and somewhat disconnected nature of the proposed HS2 station at Leeds;
5) The minimal cost/benefit ratio of the Eastern Limb versus the NIC alternative.
For what it's worth, the vast majority of high speed lines across Europe involve extensive legacy sections, but nobody seems to be describing them as "a betrayal". Are Italy's lines "a betrayal" because they use legacy stations? Has Germany "betrayed" it's people because its high speed trains run on legacy track?
maybe you want to make a video about Stuttgart 21. One Part of the project, HSR Wendlingen - Ulm, will open in a few days. Interesting project over all
yes and a total disaster;
-massively over budget
-very late
-they are now worried they wont have enough capacity in the future ie that they haven't built enough platforms.
a real example of how not to do it. but just like the massively late/over budget Edinburgh trams/the massively late/ over budget Elizabeth line/ the massively over budget and ill go out on a limb and say will be late hs2 we are all expected to ignore the objective abject failure because 'ooohh shiny thing'...
I'd say with Stuttgart 21, at least they're building something.
Glasgow and Edinburgh have such good connectivity numbers due to both wmcl and ecml and the four electrified lines between each other, also Glasgow has the largest city wide rail network after London
I am from Bradford and I really hope we got a good rail link
Don't vote tories .
@@allws9683 you have my word
@@allws9683 Most people from the north vote Labour, only the southerners vote the tories
@@WestYorkshireTrains185 Well, in 2019 they didn't ....
in regards to the title the answer is yes, for the next 30 to 40 years driving will be cheaper and faster for most people in the north.
Honestly, NPR is a insult to everyone in the north, in many ways. It’s incredibly sad that the goverment can’t get their act together on the matter, especially deciding weather they actually want to build the extra high speed sections or not.
You showed the Golburne Link to HS2, which has since apparently also been cancelled (and instead they are expecting trains to take a routing via Crewe, a already extremely busy section of railway) as well as them routing trains via the CLC instead of new high speed lines - The CLC in it’s current state is extremely slow, so I personally think that unless they majorly straightened out curves ect, they wouldn’t actually achieve any additional time benefits for trains travelling from Manchester to Liverpool, because actually, that’d be sending trains via the even slower option of route (Although I understand why, the faster Chat Moss route is already electrified but running to capacity already) so, once again, a failiure from the government’s end.
Needless to say, the entire scheme is a major mess. I do hope someone in power realises that before it’s too late.
And then you get the weak and ignorant populace wanting even HS2 cancelled, using trite phrases like 'white elephant' and 'vanity project'. It is a disgrace that the HS2 link to leeds has been cancelled, but many call for all of it to be. It simply does not matter what the projects cost, including overruns. Whatever the cost it is worth it. Not only that but we should also be constructing in parallel from Scotland. Over the last 7 years I have despaired at the UK, and am actively looking at options to leave.
@@JohnnyZenith I honestly don't blame you
@Kieran's Transport Diaries Thanks man. Here's to a better future.
London has the massive advantage in its geology with homogeneous Chalk and London Clay that are relatively easy to tunnel through compared to the Triassic and Carboniferous of the North.
Civil engineer here... Honestly no real difficulty in tunnelling between the two in complexity..
The only real issue is because most transport investment has gone in the SE there is masses of current experience of tunnelling in SE geology whereas not so much in the north.
Currently building a new aqueduct in tunnel from lake District to Manchester!
@@neilgwynne5158 My impression is that tunnelling through the Coal Measures with it its variable permeability and rapidly changing facies would be challenging to tunnel through. As to the Lower Carboniferous limestone and mid-Carboniferous Millstone Grits would be very heavy going.
@@kevinjones4559 Probably not with TBMs.
When did the north stop at York? North East forgotten about again.
Yorkshire's has been screwed out of HS2 and now NPR! Typical
It is going from Manchester to Liverpool via Manchester Airport and Warrington. Yorkshire is not mentioned.
The most telling change in transport links and general investment which the North/South divide (or the same effect on other regions) highlights is the density of rail lines in the SE corner of England compared to Devon Cornwall, Wales, Northern England , Scotland, Northern Ireland. The Beeching Report ripped out routes which could have been restored. Meanwhile the HS1, DLR, Cross rail, various tube lines have been added to the map.
No just rail lines many motorways and A roads go into London as well as M25, hence why it’s so populated and attracts people to nearby towns and suburbs…good transport links.
Milton Keynes classic example on the M1
I live in Sheffield, and I would like sub 30mins trains to Manchester and Leeds every 10-15 mins with the ability to scale up to every 5 mins in the future. Manchester to Leeds and Liverpool also need to be sped up. I'm sure speeding up trips to Hull would also be useful, and as the country round there is flat that should actually be relatively cheap to do.
Yes, it would be great for England as a whole
North was laid to waste back in late 60s, I left Liverpool and went to London for a better life which was the best move I ever did....no Govt even Labour has done anything for the North...sad but true...no difference from my day...
The Government's logic seems to be that building a new line from Manchester to Leeds would defeat the object of upgrading and electrifying the existing one, but that's not the point. By taking the express services off the existing line and putting them on the new one, you free up capacity on the former for more local services and freight (just as HS2 will do for the WCML), so upgrading it is still worth it!
i just love the way everyone Lumps the rest of the south east in with london... trust me east Sussex and Kent aren't as well off as you think and in fact HS1 increased the levels of deprivation as many local residents in Kent have been priced out of their own hometowns from the sharp increase in house prices
That could also just be because they are tory voting areas who want to keep house prices high.
not everyone in london is rich you have to remember that too...
Well since the department for transport is involved and the project won't solely benefit the southeast then yes the north will be betrayed again
Meanwhile the South West of England is seeing £0 from HS2 or NPR, and has no devolved administration to invest in rail
and South Wales' economy has been shown to be negatively affected by the UK government's own calculations on the benefits of HS2, and the UK gov is refusing to actually give Wales the money it should for HS2 like Scotland is
i hope the south west gets what it needs at some point at least, it really is just all the money goes to london isnt it (and somehow they're struggling to keep TfL funded.. all the money has disappeared it feels like)
@@snivader Money is being short-term shuffled to house migrants and to fund the war in Ukraine. 🔓😡🎃🔱💰
@@snivader An South West potential have a very exciting future ahead of it with lithium mining, space launches, geo power,
Have you made a video about Norrbottniabanan?
i find it funny now, because a year on from this videos creation and pratically all of this is ethier canceled or shelved (which is basically the same thing), i live in the north and to see london not care about us again just infuriates me more
Anything outside m25 has no chance! Mp’s not interested only interest in keeping their seats ( job)
The Truss broke before the Lettuce did. Lettuce for the Lettuce God.
it’s a fantastic video could you do maybe some thing about Uruguay railway?
Was never going to be completed as why did they not start at both ends like the channel tunnel ?
Isn't the line between Sou Airport and Waterloo easy enough to do a high speed to at least clampham junction
I think with the spiralling costs of HS2, coupled with potential stagflation in the UK's near future, any rail schemes not in the advanced stages or already under construction are at risk of being delayed or cancelled. Hopefully when economic times are better we might see a revisitation of NPR, but I think it's going to be on ice for the foreseeable future.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Western leg of HS2 is curtailed to new track extending only as far as it's feasible to connect onto the existing lines, and the unstated intention of Phase I is mainly to extend the London commuter belt to Birmingham and beyond, therefore "solving" the capital's housing crisis by encouraging the Boroughs to buy houses in the Midlands, relocate people on their housing lists up there, and possibly give them a year or two's HS2 season tickets, as doing so would be considerably cheaper than finding accommodation within their own Boroughs (especially as they gentrify and Boroughs are tempted by developer offers to buy entire housing estates and cover them with high rises with bugger all "affordable" units (claiming the ROI on the development is so low they can't afford much in the way of s106 contributions).
@@mittfhWe all know the real reason for HS2 is to re-house Londoners to the West Midlands, like many have relocated to the East Midlands, plenty have moved to my town in Leicestershire, cheaper houses 57min train journey times to St Pancras, cheaper than living in London.
Just to add everything the UK governmemt does is to benefit London, rest of the country they don't care.
@@KJames2345 For all the benefits a properly designed and costed railway could have (with long term financial commitments rather than reviewing it every few years and demanding savings which only increase costs in the future while lowering the potential return on investment), it isn't a far stretch to say most / all extra investment created by the railway will head down line.
The only surprise is the government getting cold feet over the Euston rebuild, instead suggesting the Great British Bodge Job of a separate station adjacent to the existing one, likely unconnected to it (so the off-street walkway to St Pancras has likely been shelved as well).
There should be a high-speed bypass around London, via Heathrow Airport. Just like they did in Paris. Because the Eurostar currently doesn't really connect England to mainland Europe, it connects London to mainland Europe.
UK Immigration law is unlikely to allow Eurostar services go further than London, further stations would need dedicated international platforms with border checks. That’s why HS1 and HS2 was never planned to be connected. Plus Brexit has made easy connections between the two unfashionable.
@@dankjae Oh please…first of all, if you take a ferry, then UK police already patrols in Calais, and as far as I know, also in Paris if you take the Eurostar.
Second of all, the UK doesn’t care anyway if you enter legally or not. If you come on a boat without a passport, you’re free to run into the country without resistance.
@@FlorianHWave thats just flat out not true
take your xenophobia somewhere else
It was proposed, but rejected. It was called HS4 or HS-air
@@KingFinnch Not true? Are you denying that they're all allowed in? Also, how does stating a fact make ME xenophobic? I'm not the one who makes UK laws. I didn't decide that.
The "integrated rail plan" ruined HS2 and NPR
An the plan lasted less than two months before bits of that plan was cut.
It's use alstom-hitachi rolling stock known as HS2 with tp360kpj
What if you had a special motorway for coaches with a speed limit of 80 mph, with no other traffic to slow them down.
Tory back tracked!!!!! Cant believe it!!! Rishi is amazed of the wrath and disappointment of the northerners after the conservative Manchester AGM!!!!!😮Wow just shows how we are considered in the north!! There alternative is for the an extension of the Manchester discount bus policy WOW Not to me soon the small decision of transferring £270 million to in city London roads from the northern powerhouse funds, totally shameful
Electrification in the North of England is more economical than building a new high speed rail link from Liverpool to Hull and York.
But will have far less benefits.
@@DavidKnowles0 Bingo.
And then you get the weak and ignorant populace wanting even HS2 cancelled, using trite phrases like 'white elephant' and 'vanity project'. It is a disgrace that the HS2 link to leeds has been cancelled, but many call for all of it to be. It simply does not matter what the projects cost, including overruns. Whatever the cost it is worth it. Not only that but we should also be constructing in parallel from Scotland. Over the last 7 years I have despaired at the UK, and am actively looking at options to leave
Thanks people for pointing that out.
If it ever gets built I'll doff me cap and stroke the whippets....
They don't even pretend to include Newcastle when they mention the North anymore. lol
NOW as usual the real story goes that a Trans Pennine train sets out with locked toilets, 3 instead of the usual 6 carriages. Crowded beyond crowded and some of the passengers just stood there and weed their pants.
One of my ancestors knew this guy called Robert and he got him a job at Edge Hill. George's son.
Not much progress as usual. DID WE INVENT THE RAILWAYS?
Hey, North of England, here's an idea: ditch the south, join Scandinavia again. We're awesome at HSR! (looks around. No HSR) oops. ok, but at least we've electrified most of our railways?
believe me we'd love to 😂
*YES!*
..Next question?...
Here’s some advice for the UK Government: Get your head out of your arse and electrify the Calder Valley line(S)!
Correct pronunciation is “T’ North”.
4:56 what economy are they fantasizing about.
Over the past 22 years, the only place in the UK to receive pretty much every resource has been London.
Everywhere else has been neglected. Whether this was deliberate or not 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
HS2 should have started from Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds & Bradford.
Then link Birmingham from 'the south' to Manchester (or say use Crewe as a central point to spur off to either Liverpool or Manchester).
Next stage, link the north east to Leeds.
The final stage, would be to link Birmingham to London.
Common sense. Logical.
However, London is the centre of the universe and everything must involve London regardless.
As usual, clueless ministers & bureauprats muck everything up at huge cost to everyone except them.
I do wonder if HS2 is more about getting tory mp's home quicker than any benefit to the ordinary working person
Just means people who work in London can live outside of London and commute in in the morning
Don't forget their doners getting a lot of extra money we are spending close to 10x more per mile of track than France does. If we had the French system for the money they had already put in the entire HS2 network would have been built
Whilst also funnelling billions and billions of public money into the pockets of private developers. Nothing is done in the UK for the benefit of the average citizen.
If any Government were serious about this, they would have started the project in the North. Not start in the South and gradually cut the project as it goes North. All it will become is a Rich mans (expenses) faster way to London, as the rest of us couldn't afford to use it, as the normal train fares are high enough as they are.
BUT WE KNEW THAT. 😒☹😤😡
Short answer yes
The northern half of England has been neglected for many decades by successive Governments. It is an area of great social and economic deprivation when compared to the southern half of England yet still is greatly underfunded. The Government is currently spending hundreds of millions of pounds on transport projects in the south of England and connections to London, but continues to neglect the remainder of the country. Many people in the northern half of England voted for the current Conservative Government in the hope of policy changes, but will not make the same mistake again.
Just to show how bad it is look at Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14, about a decade ago they should have had an expansion because it was well overcrowded then. Now I can only describe it as the scenes you see in Japan. The entire rest of picadilly Station platforms might have a few people milling about and then you get to this platforms and there most likely over 1,000 people on the platform a train every 10 minutes all going to different places there is constant shouting over the speaker for people to get back with the workers having to make sure people aren't beyond the yellow line because the platforms is that full. Then you get squished onto a train, that then people are shouting to get people to move in further. And the only reason you garentueed to get on that train although very uncomfortably is because the one platform is providing travel for about 5 different routes.
This is an unfair stats to use. Because it doesn't take into account the number of people that visit London & use it's transportation system. Before COVID London had 20+ million people visiting PER YEAR.
The main road route from Bradford into Leeds , armley corridor was purposely slowed down this year , closing the 2 plus share lane into bus only and a making of a whole new lane which is for bikes only , so the local governments are themselves slowing down traffic, also Bradford is now running a congestion charge for businesses using lorry's and vans , this has force companies to leave the city . It is obvious now Bradford will soon just become a residential area in Greater Leeds , and Leeds it self will have the companies and businesses, this must be the plan as Bradford has blatantly been destroyed.
I’m hoping that once the Tories are out at the next election there will be some much needed impetus to NPR . Especially if more power and money is devolved to the regions .
It may be a case of jam tomorrow as it does not serve any route into London. But tomorrow never comes. This would have been a significant part of the levelling up agenda but this was never more than a concept in Johnson's head.
And everybody forgets, or doesn't realise that UN "Agenda 2030 "calls for fewer people traveling at all. 🥺😤😡
As always, no matter who gets into downing street, they will always favour the capital.
dont get why they didnt start hs2 in the north instead
Understand the need for it but unless there’s an incentive to use trains like making them cheaper than driving then there’s no point.
It just needs to have proper connectivity. Driving is such a hassle for most people with parking issues, car maintenance, etc they'll choose the train even if it ends up costing the same
@@atibrewal1 exactly. Currently where I live, it’s cheaper to fly to Scotland than take a train.
Making them less overcrowded, convenient and comfortable would be a big incentive for me. But yes I agree once the capacity is there the government needs to make it cheaper.
@@DaveJNoel Yes, I live in York and often TPE services through the Pennines are very overcrowded with passengers having to stand on three car trains and lean against doorsmand the conductor can't get through the carriages.
@@jackjoyce1744
Where I live ,it's cheaper to fly to Netherlands than to take a train.
That's North England. Not the North of the UK. North of the UK is Scotland
Extend Blackpool trams to Preston🎉🎉🎉
why the fukk would you want to connect 2 of the most depressing shyte holes on a map ????..
Given the state of the UK economy, should both NPR and HS2 get axed?
Nope. Part of the reason the economy is in such a state is because we keep curtailing or outright axing projects that would boost it in the long term.
@@deaconswayne1894 Just where is the demand for HS2 going to come from when so many people are now working from home?
@@leeroberts1192 According to the DfT, rail ridership is up 15% from when HS2 was given the green light back in 2012 and is now at 100% of pre pandemic levels across much of the network. These data show that demand for rail travel still exists, the demand is increasing and there is no evidence to support the assertion that working from home has reduced the demand to the point where a new main line is no longer required.
@@deaconswayne1894 The last time that I went over to the Isle of Wight for the day, passenger levels were down a fair bit, they weren't anywhere near pre-pandemic levels. Since the pandemic ended I've yet to be on any train service that's been at pre-pandemic levels.
@@leeroberts1192 that sounds pleasant but unfortunately we can’t draw conclusions regarding infrastructure requirements based on your anecdotes about the latest jolly down to IOW. The facts above paint a very different picture; that ridership is higher than in 2012 despite the pandemic and continues to rise, the WCML in particular is FULL, that a new mainline is needed to address this.
None of this is doing anything for economic growth - something this country is in desperate need of after a decade of stagnation.
"northern powerhouse rail" is in the south
The Uk is such a rich nation (compared globally at least) but when it comes to projects for infrastructure and future-proofing the economy, we haven’t got a clue! The north really does need to be better interconnected in the right way, I feel particularly now that we’re transitioning through brexit, it’s probably important we invest in our local economies more than ever to bolster our falling pound
Brexit is a disgusting disgrace. This country is clueless.
It doesn't feel rich.... The UK is a country that consists of a small group of extremely rich people, surrounded by ever deepening poverty. The reason the UK fails at everything is because the people that run it aren't interested in investing in the country; they're interested in asset stripping and profiteering.
Why the Meerkat voice-over?
Reaction tp new Indonesian HSR
The answer to the question is yes
NPR has been dead for years and it's dead because of HS2. There was a way to have a high speed mainline and also do the NPR project for less money, but it wasn't as sexy as HS2 so we got HS2. HS2 is probably going to be the end of rail in the UK -- or if nothing else the end of investment in major rail projects for decades - because it's going to cause us to end up with a massively disjointed (and lop-sided) rail network. After that it's a question of costs and performance of hyperloop when it finally becomes a thing; which frankly it might have been worth waiting to see which way the wind blows (or going out of our way to make it a thing anyway) on that.
Just shows how hard us northerners work and how did regarded we actually are
YES !
Yes.... Yes they will
Tldr; yes
I want massive infrastructure investment across the north, no cut backs .
To compete internationally England needs modern advanced infrastructure.
To cement Northern power House ,West Midlands and South East-Greater London.
And investment in R&D
No time for penny pinching
by allowing more trains threw channel tunnel it would make these investments far more practical to tax payers as there would be a lot more trains on the island bringing more traffic but a lot more money.
Bradford has the worst connectivity in the UK. After upgrades, it still has the worst connectivity! Bradford is the 5th biggest metropolitan authority in the UK and is also the youngest city in europe with 29% of its citizens under 20. To leave Bradford off the high speed route to Manchester shows how disconnected this government really are! The IRP needs to go in the shredder before massive amounts of our money are spent on something that simply does not work!
That's where the battle is going to be, does the new line go through Bradford or Huddersfield. Much as I hate all things Bradford if an underground station could be built in the City Centre that replaced the Interchange, Forster Square and integrated HS3 it would do wonders for the place.
It's embarrassing that a city region approaching 600k has very little direct connectivity. Everything is bottlenecked at leeds. Bradford has been ignored after what the victorian's built. I wish they connected the two stations things would have been so different as Leeds could by bypassed for north and south trains.
It may well have a young population but it is also an absolute cesspit.
They will cut from birmingham
Yes
TLDR:
YES.
Below 1000 views, woo!
Same