Hi, I wanted to watch this video for a while now and finally got around to do it. I’m one of Frenetic’s Sidekick testers and also the developer behind adding network features to the Sidekick family. I really enjoyed watching this video and found it very well done. Sidekick20 is really interesting and you managed to put all the ingredients in your video to get that across. I have some Sidekick related videos on my channel but so far I hardly found the time to explain it verbally but instead only got around to show features without commenting them. Therefore I am happy to see that you took the time to understand it, build it, got it running and are able to talk about it. 😊
It's nice to see there is a better option than the standard S-video option for the VIC-20. I hate the s-video option as it requires you to cut traces, etc... on the board, so I might have to look at this one instead. Personally I have a dislike to a lot of mods to consoles / old computers that force you to cut traces or legs on ICs, especially when alternatives exist. For the NES, there is a no-cut option for the CIC IC, but everyone ops for the easier option. I mean, tbf, there are only a couple of games that absolutely require the CIC to be working, and the chance of most people having them is pretty small, but still.
Great video. I have want to see how the side kick worked on the Vic. One question, the font looks different, squashed at the top. Take B for example, the top and bottom of the b should be the same size. Is the pi changing the font or is that your display?
I didn't even notice that but I see what you mean. I think as the sidekick HDMI output is emulating the VIC, it must also be emulating the character rom. And it looks like whatever font they used isn't exactly the same as the original
Very nice video! Those are some expensive boards on PCBWay, but I think I'll have to build one anyway. I love my crt, but it's sometimes just easier to grab a monitor to play with (especially since my SixtyClone is usually hogging the crt). Any thoughts on whether is could be purpose built just for HDMI output and mounted internally? SD2IEC and a RAM cartridge fill the other needs for me. Unless it would interfere with the rest of the cartidge port being available... Just a random thought as I was watching. Thanks again!
Only the matte black finish on the boards push up the price, stick with the standard colours and you'll be fine. Not sure on the internal mounting, in theory it's possible but would require a lot of work. And I'm not sure if something else connected to the cartridge port would still function as normal
It does seem to be connected on the NTSC-CR version to "audio in" which is mixed with the audio output from the VIC. However it looks like pin 20 is not connected on all versions 🤔 I guess the worry would be that cartridges may have that pin grounded on their side, meaning putting a cartridge in would effectively ground A15
finally got mine working but struggling to get cartridges to work, i get not .crt file even though the extension is correct. Any ideas, also can tape files be run? Any help Appreciated....
Unless raspberry pi gets their $#!t together I don't know if there's a future for these PI based projects. Maybe time to start thinking of alternatives to the PI.
How exactly are the Pi Foundation supposed to get "their $#!t together"? Are they doing something wrong? You mean the GLOBAL chip shortage that is affecting everyone to some extent? There's a queue for those chips, so there are back orders. Chip manufacturers have pre-existing contracts they are legally obliged to fulfill. Do you think the Pi Foundation are somehow immune or deserve special treatment? Yes, some board manufacturers already had huge stocks of chips and pre-made systems, so were able to ride out the shortage better... but then most of those weren't anywhere near as popular or well supported as the Pi. 🙄
Am I right in saying the pi is emulating the VIC20, that is mirroring the steps the VIC20 is taking. And how would it work if a games cartridge or a cartridge containing a compendium of games was somehow connected?
I believe it is only mirroring the VIC chip, all other functions are still being performed by the VIC20. So the Pi isn't doing its own emulation of a VIC20, just the VIC itself. As for cartridges, the sidekick already has cartridge image support and connecting an additional item to the cartridge port would likely conflict with the sidekick
It needs the extra address line to snoop what is being written to the internal VIC chip. It only emulates the video and audio aspects of the VIC chip, not the whole system. Traditional game carts can be dumped and loaded from the sidekick browser. A port replicator might work also.
Hello, congratulations for this video which breathes new life into the fabulous time spent with our Commodore VIC-20.😉 In a few days, I will start creating an S-Video/Composite mod on my two VIC20s. For several days, I have been able to glean a lot of information on the Internet on this subject. The vast majority of VIC20 owners who have used this S-Video hardware mod have in some way "destroyed" the motherboard of their Vic20 with a cutter or screwdriver. Personally, I cannot imagine this type of process which consists of cutting tracks on the PCB (bakelite) of my VIC20. Today, I was finally able to better understand this problem of a video display improved by the S-Video hardware mod and understand why the final result is still not optimal. The fact of physically separating the two luminance and chrominance components on the Vic20 motherboard already poses problems in terms of signals, let me explain. The circuit (device) which manages the Video part of the VIC20 has been designed to deliver (mix) a Composite video signal with relatively sufficient quality for old screens (SCART socket, RF modulator). What happens when we separate the two Luma and Chroma signals? Both chroma and luma signals end up with various types of interference of all kinds. All S-Video mods performed on the VIC20 consist of adding a 75 ohm resistor and a 0.1 micro Farad capacitor, except that this absolutely does not solve the initial problem, even if the display result is better than initially (without this mod). In reality, this S-Video hardware mod is much too aggressive and does not really address this problem. To respond to this video display quality problem of the VIC20, it is necessary from the start to act on the Composite signal by applying a "corrective" to effectively improve the two components luminance and chrominance AND then reinject them into a new Composite signal “clean” (cleansed of all its impurities). Today, the vast majority of TV screens manage Composite (normal), few screens/monitors accept an RGB (Y/C) input. In conclusion, the S-Video hardware mod made on a VIC20 will never be able to give optimal results. Only ("corrective") processing of the Composite VIC20 signal can truly improve the video display quality, much better than that delivered by the S-Video hardware mod. Would you be interested in my work on creating a Composite mod designed to correct and clean both luminance and chrominance components of the VIC20 WITHOUT DESTROYING THE VIC-20?? Sincerely PS: adding a 75 ohm resistor only adds this ohmic value to that of the video cable connected to a screen. This is one of the reasons why this S-Video hardware mod is deficient and does not address the problem of improving the video display of the VIC20.
Hi, I wanted to watch this video for a while now and finally got around to do it. I’m one of Frenetic’s Sidekick testers and also the developer behind adding network features to the Sidekick family. I really enjoyed watching this video and found it very well done. Sidekick20 is really interesting and you managed to put all the ingredients in your video to get that across. I have some Sidekick related videos on my channel but so far I hardly found the time to explain it verbally but instead only got around to show features without commenting them. Therefore I am happy to see that you took the time to understand it, build it, got it running and are able to talk about it. 😊
Fantastic! Thank you!
Hello! What no clean flux do you use at 14:35? Seems like I found my new electronics channel ;)
MG Chemicals 8351
It's nice to see there is a better option than the standard S-video option for the VIC-20.
I hate the s-video option as it requires you to cut traces, etc... on the board, so I might have to look at this one instead.
Personally I have a dislike to a lot of mods to consoles / old computers that force you to cut traces or legs on ICs, especially when alternatives exist.
For the NES, there is a no-cut option for the CIC IC, but everyone ops for the easier option. I mean, tbf, there are only a couple of games that absolutely require the CIC to be working, and the chance of most people having them is pretty small, but still.
Great video. I have want to see how the side kick worked on the Vic. One question, the font looks different, squashed at the top. Take B for example, the top and bottom of the b should be the same size. Is the pi changing the font or is that your display?
I didn't even notice that but I see what you mean. I think as the sidekick HDMI output is emulating the VIC, it must also be emulating the character rom. And it looks like whatever font they used isn't exactly the same as the original
Brilliant video. Could i ask if there's a version of this for the Commodore Plus/4 and Commodore 16 computers please ?
There is, but it doesn't give HDMI out. Check the GitHub page, there's a link to it in the video description
Very nice video! Those are some expensive boards on PCBWay, but I think I'll have to build one anyway. I love my crt, but it's sometimes just easier to grab a monitor to play with (especially since my SixtyClone is usually hogging the crt). Any thoughts on whether is could be purpose built just for HDMI output and mounted internally? SD2IEC and a RAM cartridge fill the other needs for me. Unless it would interfere with the rest of the cartidge port being available... Just a random thought as I was watching. Thanks again!
Only the matte black finish on the boards push up the price, stick with the standard colours and you'll be fine. Not sure on the internal mounting, in theory it's possible but would require a lot of work. And I'm not sure if something else connected to the cartridge port would still function as normal
It seems that cart pin 'Y' may not be connected and could be used instead of the jumper cable.
It does seem to be connected on the NTSC-CR version to "audio in" which is mixed with the audio output from the VIC. However it looks like pin 20 is not connected on all versions 🤔
I guess the worry would be that cartridges may have that pin grounded on their side, meaning putting a cartridge in would effectively ground A15
finally got mine working but struggling to get cartridges to work, i get not .crt file even though the extension is correct. Any ideas, also can tape files be run? Any help Appreciated....
Nice work again. Yikes. You're a pretty smart guy:)
Thanks mate
Unless raspberry pi gets their $#!t together I don't know if there's a future for these PI based projects. Maybe time to start thinking of alternatives to the PI.
How exactly are the Pi Foundation supposed to get "their $#!t together"? Are they doing something wrong? You mean the GLOBAL chip shortage that is affecting everyone to some extent? There's a queue for those chips, so there are back orders. Chip manufacturers have pre-existing contracts they are legally obliged to fulfill. Do you think the Pi Foundation are somehow immune or deserve special treatment? Yes, some board manufacturers already had huge stocks of chips and pre-made systems, so were able to ride out the shortage better... but then most of those weren't anywhere near as popular or well supported as the Pi. 🙄
There are lots of Pi's becoming available recently
Indeed. I have a number of projects on the back burner waiting for these pesky devices to reappear.
Am I right in saying the pi is emulating the VIC20, that is mirroring the steps the VIC20 is taking. And how would it work if a games cartridge or a cartridge containing a compendium of games was somehow connected?
I believe it is only mirroring the VIC chip, all other functions are still being performed by the VIC20. So the Pi isn't doing its own emulation of a VIC20, just the VIC itself.
As for cartridges, the sidekick already has cartridge image support and connecting an additional item to the cartridge port would likely conflict with the sidekick
It needs the extra address line to snoop what is being written to the internal VIC chip. It only emulates the video and audio aspects of the VIC chip, not the whole system.
Traditional game carts can be dumped and loaded from the sidekick browser. A port replicator might work also.
Hello, congratulations for this video which breathes new life into the fabulous time spent with our Commodore VIC-20.😉
In a few days, I will start creating an S-Video/Composite mod on my two VIC20s.
For several days, I have been able to glean a lot of information on the Internet on this subject.
The vast majority of VIC20 owners who have used this S-Video hardware mod have in some way "destroyed" the motherboard of their Vic20 with a cutter or screwdriver.
Personally, I cannot imagine this type of process which consists of cutting tracks on the PCB (bakelite) of my VIC20.
Today, I was finally able to better understand this problem of a video display improved by the S-Video hardware mod and understand why the final result is still not optimal.
The fact of physically separating the two luminance and chrominance components on the Vic20 motherboard already poses problems in terms of signals, let me explain.
The circuit (device) which manages the Video part of the VIC20 has been designed to deliver (mix) a Composite video signal with relatively sufficient quality for old screens (SCART socket, RF modulator).
What happens when we separate the two Luma and Chroma signals?
Both chroma and luma signals end up with various types of interference of all kinds.
All S-Video mods performed on the VIC20 consist of adding a 75 ohm resistor and a 0.1 micro Farad capacitor, except that this absolutely does not solve the initial problem, even if the display result is better than initially (without this mod).
In reality, this S-Video hardware mod is much too aggressive and does not really address this problem.
To respond to this video display quality problem of the VIC20, it is necessary from the start to act on the Composite signal by applying a "corrective" to effectively improve the two components luminance and chrominance AND then reinject them into a new Composite signal “clean” (cleansed of all its impurities).
Today, the vast majority of TV screens manage Composite (normal), few screens/monitors accept an RGB (Y/C) input.
In conclusion, the S-Video hardware mod made on a VIC20 will never be able to give optimal results.
Only ("corrective") processing of the Composite VIC20 signal can truly improve the video display quality, much better than that delivered by the S-Video hardware mod.
Would you be interested in my work on creating a Composite mod designed to correct and clean both luminance and chrominance components of the VIC20 WITHOUT DESTROYING THE VIC-20??
Sincerely
PS: adding a 75 ohm resistor only adds this ohmic value to that of the video cable connected to a screen. This is one of the reasons why this S-Video hardware mod is deficient and does not address the problem of improving the video display of the VIC20.
Interesting
Would this work without a VIC chip present?
No, you still require a working VIC
How does this mod work with games such as Pole Position, Polaris, Cheese and Onion, uhhh Vicky Bird ?
It should work fine. The game I showed at the end requires the 35kb RAM expansion and I had no problems running it with the sidekick
On my RUclips channel I have a small demo video of running Cheese and Onion via HDMI.
Ahh took 17 minutes to hear its emulation.