The institute "were going to just replace people high and low in the westland" Player "are you doing this to build a base of support and act as a shadow government for the commonwealth to slowly rebuild society with you at the top while keeping local power down with the use of the mutants and removing potentially troublesome leaders" The institute "Eh no" The Railroad "we want synths to be free" Player "and?" The Railroad "No thats all" The minutemen "another settlement needs your help" Player 'loads fatman with murderous intent' The Brotherhood "they're all abominations" Player "how are you the most reasonable people in this shit show"
I just murder everyone in goodneighbor and shoot settlers on site rather than complete there radiant quest. Youre know the game has amazing writing when just murder the NPCs like a sociopath rather than hear there sh*t dialogue. Meanwhile I could have a RP Fiend sociopath cannibal character in New Vegas and I'd still be like. "Wait lets at least exhaust the dialogue or find other ways to RP into this quest than just mass murder. Joining the Brotherhood and just putting Goodneighbor to the sword, not far behind wanting to wreck Diamond City.
They aren't tho. Railroad: "We want to help a group that is actively being enslaved, and destroyed" Institute: "We are going to manipulate the commonwealth so it isn't a threat and make sure we have the resources to survive. Also Synths aren't fucking people they are just designed to pretend to be!" Minutemen: "We want to protect most of the commonwealth and also begin building infrastructure." Brotherhood: "Hmm their are an awful lot of greenskins, wrinklybois, and shiny people here. Lets kill em." Like I don't think the institute is good but I don't understand how people think they are worse than the commonwealth Brotherhood, the Enclave, or even debatably Caesars legion.
@@anotherperson2627 the only argument for ceasers legion is oh well they see the best way to rebuild society in the image of another society with constant issues and many wars but hey its a different way to have a society are the same people who would side with thanoss because he had a vision for the universe that he thought might be good. Neither took any account for the citizens and how it may effect them they just did what they seen as best. I have yet to see a single argument telling how they would do any good at all other than that
@@anotherperson2627 yeah but here's the thing tho the railroad could help people who are enslaved not just one species but instead they opt to only help synths instead of other people who are probably in a worse position than synths are also the institute won't be able to figure out that the railroad is helping humans who are enslaved because the have their heads so far up their asses that they literally can't see what's going on around them
That’s because you wouldn’t, you just arrived, it’s a faction that focuses on the advancement of science whatever the cost. Also stats basically don’t matter anymore, just look at Ulysses.
Father's full of crap. Advancement at any cost is like falling for anything because you stand for nothing. The Institute can't help but undo itself one way or another. Their methods make unnecessary enemies.
@@brok56 i dont know outer worlds wasnt that good and simping for Obsidian is what the fallout nv Fanbase does the most And forgeting that without fallout 3 there would be no New vegas
I know that the Enclave being in the Commonwealth wouldn't make much sense, but they should have either been in the game or just replaced the BoS. Waking up in a post-apocalypse and finding the remnants of the government you once served as a soldier to maybe even join them again would be really cool
Well, Arcjet is just kinda chilling there and the Enclave did want to go to space. I don't know why there is so many X-01s though, that wasn't even the suit that they use, I guess just for the player to get suits and that's it
Gunners were never fleshed out too. They had a cool background. Ex Vault dwellers were the expiriment was to produce OP mercenaries. Now roaming the Wasteland working for pay. they're an enemy of the minutemen but they never did anything with them. Can't even talk to them. They're just hostile npc. That whole minutemen vs gunners had potential. And made more sense fighting them than the quest line with the institute.
I confused gunners for gun runners(foNV) for half of the game. It was interesting to think a former gun manufacturers( with guards wearing combat armor) turn into a violent merceneries and kill minutemen.
I had always believe the Gunners was a NCR sponsored Merc Company, like a more legalized way to leave other factions fractured so them building up a resistance is impossible, so when the time comes and the NCR goes full-enclave, they will obliterate the Minutemen and Railroad, only the Institute and BoS acting as actual threats.
The BoS in fo4 is like Hegelian Dialectics in reverse if you start from BoS and enclave in fo3. They just took the annoying parts of both sides and mixed them together.
No the BOS in fallout 4 are pretty accurate given the Brotherhood and Outcast issue, allowing both to meet up again. Honestly I feel like if we didn’t say “noo the brotherhood is suppose to be evil!” About 3 for no reason at all, we’d probably be given a better faction. As for Hegelian dialectics- a big issue with that is it’s been roughly subverted to a degree of marxist dialectics which ‘turned Hegel on his head’ The latter usually slap the former’s name onto their own. Like saying “Liberty” and “federal government” so much that we drown out the first succession from the union was barred from voting after being burned at the stake in war- and given how 1 guy targeted farms and civilian places just to cause damage… yeah. For federal government and ‘banning slavery’ read the 13th amendment with the ‘except’ involved, and 14th amending with the idea of ‘states rights’ involved. Now take into account the Soviet Union had 13 maybe 15 places succeed from them peacefully
@@AVerySexuallyDeviantOrange want to know some more on current events? Check the documentary ‘Ukraine on fire’ and check Jimmy Dore- while not exactly great his video on the Ukraine is very accurate. Summary. America backed a coup in Ukraine in 2014, changed leaders and everything- Clinton even was involved in a leaked audio. Also remember Gadafi or whoever was that ‘he bombed his own citizens’? That guy? Yeah, Ukraine has been doing that for 8 years- 14,000 dead from shells alone and 81% civilian targets. Recently the Uk dropped javelin missiles (I think it’s what it called) on civilian targets over a few weeks before the russian stuff. Look at economic freedom chart and see Ukraine and see the corruption there. That place was the heart of the Biden scandals and put Hunter Biden on a board. Now look at America’s economic freedom. We’re 25th- China is 50. 3 years ago we were the 12th freest economy in the world.
I never understood why the BoS in F4 destroys the Institute like that, it would be more BoS style if they made them surrender, convince scientists to join the BoS and kill the rest. Let's not forget that the BoS could benefit from the synths, programming them to only serve the BoS and with that they would have one of the biggest armies in the wasteland. Just my thoughts feel free to add.
I was thinking that, but I also think that they might just kill the scientists, I mean, I don't know of any Enclave scientists working for the Brotherhood soooo...
@@TheOmegaInitiative Makes sense when you consider there is already a former BoS scientist in the Institute, so what keeps former(or spy) Enclave scientists from joining.
@@Not_Revelant Li never really liked the Brotherhood, she only works with them to defeat greater threats. According to Danse the Enclave are a "traitorous group of rebels". So the Brotherhood might not even allow Enclave personnel to join.
@@TheOmegaInitiative I think Enclave would like to see what the Institute is working on and may sneak in an agent or two since we know that the Institute is gathering personel from the wasteland.
@@Not_Revelant It wouldn't be impossible, it's just a case of whether the Enclave would know about the institute, and even then it might be difficult if say they all evacuated to Chicago after Fallout 3.
Enclave should have been in fo4 a us army soldier frozen in time wakes up in a wasteland 200 years later and find a remnants of the United States Government the story could still be you looking for your son but the enclave is another faction you can side with and their goal is to capture the institutes manufacturing to make a synthetic army or some shit like that
That or if they were an actual faction with a real presence in the wasteland besides in the player's playgrounds and actually stood for something besides 'we're the good guys that help people'
There exists a mod that makes it so Garvey does JUST that. It revealed what appeared to be cut dialogue where upon completing the quest, he says something like *I'll let you know when another settlement needs our help.* And he eventually will. He'll talk about it if you walk past him, but he won't forcegreet you, you actually have to respond to him in order for him to give it to you.
Tbh, once you setup shop in the Castle you could have the Radio Operator give you the quests. You can talk to him and ask him if he has a quest ready. Then you can say yes or no.
@@normalplayer7377 so what im hearing is to send Garvey to my modded settlement in the glowing sea to forever be forgotten, hopefully making him go feral because he can't tell anyone that a settlement needs your help how he seems to always know raises suspicions of Garvey not even being human. Though him having no one to tell that a settlement needs help is a two sided sword he could go feral or go on an insane quest for vengeance. Garvey has insane powers of regeneration like every companion from fallout 4 has, have you noticed how not one companion can die they all have regenerating abilities essentially even more immortal than Lorenzo Cabot maybe not in age but they all could survive eating a mini nuke if eating it whole was possible. I think the player character is being manipulated by the mysterious dunwitch being (this isallouttheass)
@@nagger8216 i know one of my mods(might be odst minutemen) causes halo gun toting odst patrols of minutemen to appear in the wasteland but the fix shouldnt have to be mods
I also love the Minutemen. I’ve always loved rag tag militias and I enjoyed being able to build up settlements. They’re the one faction that actively seems to be trying to rebuild. That said, none of Fallout 4’s factions particularly grabbed my interest the way the ones in New Vegas did.
The Minutemen had plenty of potential. Like having them actually restart the Commonwealth government as an ending. The Minutemen as a faction being able to grow beyond the colonialist militia structure into a leading military force to counter the hidden scourge of the Institute and the invading Brotherhood. Perhaps the Sole Survivor leads a team of Minutemen into an abandoned military base(maybe an old stationing base from your past) with the a distress beacon. Inside you find all kinds of equipment and tech to upgrade the Minutemen to a proper army. Perhaps over the course of the game, events can happen that somewhat mirror American military history like Pro-Synth and Anti-Synth factions breaking out resulting in civil war and opportunities to side with the Railroad and Brotherhood respectively. The story could end with the Brotherhood assaulting the Castle or perhaps old military base and you must defend against waves of paladins before facing Liberty Prime and killing him. A mirroring of the Broken Steel Brotherhood assault on the Enclave. I think that would have been neat and added a lot more character to the Minutemen.
@@nanomachines2985 Because that’s what a mod is, an advancement of something that already exists, there exists mods that makes New Vegas better too but does that make it a bad game?
@@Ludovicus1769 TLDR my comment was intended to agree but with jaded and cynical undertones... it doesn't work well speaking versus typing... Longer version: new Vegas was digital gold. Somehow obsidian made the best entry even while making the player need power armor training. But also here's why i was agreeing with Republic Radio. fallout 4 is one example of the result of creative bankruptcy. For as many things as they did rightin fo4, imo, it was a bad fallout entry with an objectively bad story that both took away the "RP" in "RPG" and seemed to openly and publicly rely on modders to make improvements to it. Never seen or heard of a game take that approach until fo4. So that's story. As far as more technical stuff, i can't help but shake the feeling that bethesda took the oldest version of their patented game engine--probably when Morrowind was still new, then re-skinned it with fo76 textures because apparently it just works. That's how broken and unplayable that game was and still is in many ways. Another example of creative bankruptcy. It's like they hired the guys that code for PUBG to develop 76. But to your point, if a good game is good in its vanilla form, like 1, 2, 3 and NV, then mods will only elevate the experience. They shouldn't be actual fixes for the developer's design oversights.
@@nanomachines2985 I know, that’s why I disagree with you, I have an easy time RPing in Fallout 4, and I do believe that it’s a good RPG too, however we do agree on one thing, Power Armour Training is extremely dumb.
@@Ludovicus1769 lol ah, I thought you might have misunderstood me. Never mind then. I guess we simply disagree on most of that. But yes, as much as i loved 3 abs NV, the power armor training requirement gave me various forms of hepatitis.
They could of been interesting with quest centered around creating alliances, a standing army, patrol routes and outpost for trading and civil defense, laws and bodies of enforcement, governmental bodies to help micro manage, and other nation building stuff. I was hoping they’d be a NCR type deal but we’d be in from the ground up building it but instead we got a janky settlement building system that needs mods to be fun
Brotherhood of Steel: ANYTHING NOT HUMAN DIES! [Enclave: "Hey that's our thing!"] Institute: We have a plan to complicated to explain to you. Railroad: Save the talking toasters! Minutemen: We only exist in case you've managed to tick off the other factions...
I think that a Minuteman/Brotherhood alliance would be the best thing for the future of the commonwealth. Maybe have the minutemen act as the ‘police’ with the brotherhood acting like the ‘military’ in the situation after the institute for a time until the commonwealth gets its infrastructure built up enough to be secure enough for the brotherhood to pull out and return to the citadel.
That was the head cannon I came up with. But I wish the institute didn't have to be blown up. It makes no sense to destroy that much hard work, and technological innovation.
I wish that fo4 have smaller factions to help with the fight on the institute or bos. The fight for both those factions felt kinda bland and nothing to really remember unlike Hoover dam with the boomers and others
Thats the cool thing about NV having 3 main factions and many mini factions which means even fighting for an independent Vegas can mean many things as far as it being the right choice or not
@@jeambeam3173 they could’ve made a ending were all of the factions team up to fight the institute. Although they would Have to make the institute way bigger
tbh, fallout 4s map seems 200000 times smaller than New Vegas, because its all boring, new vegas is a huge map with mini lore everywhere, and fallout 4 is a bit boring in the means of it being dry
Institute: comic book mini scientists, you can also never actually interact with the evil side of the Institute if you side with them, all you can do is interact with them on the surface level. Railroad: they really don’t make much sense, a group as a niche as the railroad would never actually exist, who would bother freeing a tiny number of synths, where there is actual slavery of real humans in the wasteland? Minute men: their fine for the most part in my opinion, the only thing that’s kind of strange with them is how are Larping around with the colonial uniforms. Brotherhood: what you said, but also I don’t understand why distrust of ghouls is portrayed as if it’s some kind of irrational, or unreasonable bigotry. All ghouls go feral eventually on account of their long lives and rotting bodies. Sometimes it’s slow, sometimes without warning. If you were a wastelander, would you let somebody who is guaranteed to eventually try to kill somebody into your town? Would you let that person watch your child? Of course not. The answer to the ghoul bigotry problem is ghouls having their own place, like Necropolis.
@@hugehappygrin Yes, but there is some narrative dissidents there, you have a little ghoul settlement of Slog, but then you also have cities like good neighbor. So you have some goals living in a city with both humans and Ghouls, whining about not being allowed into the other major city, and then you have other Ghouls that are off founding their own towns. Both are presented as valid and good, but one is obviously a far more permanent and peaceful solution than the other.
I found it stupid how every faction that fights the institute always blows up their base. The institutes facilities would exponentially increase the power of any faction due to all its tec and it would allow them to produce weapons, armor and ammo. If use right the institutes base could turn any some what well organized group into a supper power. And if they reinforces and cover up the hole they made they could have a hidden base almost un assessable to anyone else.
Weapons and armors are one thing, but more importantly are their terraforming technology. We already seen their base, how they can have clean drinking water and lush vegetation growing even underground. Their facility clearly can give FAR greater output than several G.E.C.K. combined, and if used correctly, can revert that part of the States back to it pre-War self. But no, let nuke the damn thing.
Institute: Least developed with no active goal besides continuing the status quo to keep them on top as the spectre of the commonwealth. A primary argument in their favor would either be hyper utilitarian because of the benefits of their tech or a self-insert ending because the SS becomes director. Railroad: Short-sighted, but I wouldn't frame that as a negative. The faction most compassionate to synths is the one least effective in the long term, so the player is forced to make the choice about how much synths matter when the entire Commonwealth is at stake. Minutemen: A good faction conceptually. Whether or not they matter is dependent on player input and roleplay. I've had a lot of fun with Minutemen playthroughs but their impact is seldom reflected in the game. Elevating the average wastelander is the greatest way to develop the entire region, but it never feels that way. Brotherhood: My primary contention with the video. Eastern BOS suffered a schism in F3 with the Outcasts, therefore F4's BOS is a result of their reconciliation. Still involved in the wider wasteland like Lyon's but as crusaders. They've got the might to pacify the Commonwealth but they aren't too interested in infrastructure or governance.
I'm pretty sure the BOS is interested in infrastructure and governance. I heard somewhere that the Capital Wasteland is being run like a fiefdom. So maybe after the Institute is dealt with they'll transition from an invading army to a more peace keeping force.
"Maybe the laser muskets were taking it a bit too far" The use of laser muskets as opposed to other plentiful modern weapons is what nearly drove the minutemen to extinction, imo
@@Samm815 I could definitely see that being a better option, especially if microfusion cells were given the same mechanical treatment as fusion cores (i.e. each shot takes x percentage off the capacity rather than expending the whole thing)
To be fair a highly cranked laser musket works better then any sniper in the game when using it like a sniper 💀😂 has its use but yes they should of widely adopted other guns and used laser muskets as a low tier grunt weapon or sniper
@@VIPERJ27 in the hands of the player character, yeah, they can be pretty solid in a sniper rifle role. In terms of the minutemen, who were an all volunteer militia often facing off against enemies that outnumbered and outgunned them on the regular, it's a pretty terrible option for standard issue, not just because of how long it takes to put fire downrange, but also because lasers in the FO universe have the same problem tracers do irl...they give away one's position
i actually find the brotherhood as the most realist faction yes the institute is a threat and the the synths are a threat too as imagine the ability to infiltrate anywhere with sleeper agents and destroy factions from within. and for this the brotherhood does gets points for being responsible and not falling for temptation of such power. Maxon is right to compare the synths to the nuclear bomb that went out of controlled and cause the apocalypse. i mean i played wasteland 2 and that games shows how synths destroyed entire communities and staged false flag attacks hell it's they who caused nuclear war. the minuteman are just corrupt and ineffective and without you they would have been wiped out.
@@cadestockman5731 is this a serious question? It’s not uncommon in reality for a leader of a group or nation have corrupt officials under them. A leader can have good ideals, but u still need people to handle things, and everyone doesn’t operate the same lmao
My thoughts on Fallout 4's Factions: Brotherhood: you killed off the Lyons, fuck you. I didn't mine the East BoS being good guy becuse their problem was being divided and over stretched. Also Super-mutants always being hostile is just Bethesda being lazy. Railroad: why are you a major faction? Not a bad faction but a single issue group like this would normal be a minor in other games Institute : what even is your goal here besides being dicks? lot of wasted potential Minutemen: An actually good faction with well written lore, moderations, and characters; all of with is immediately scarified at Fo4's alter of Toyification so that the player can have some new play things and a glorified mission board. Gunner: A real faction with a lot of potential that the game end up treating like deluxe raiders. remember the cool potential connection to Vault 75?
Tbf the Legion are basically objectively bad guys, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't constantly conflicted about which of the other 3 I should choose in each playthrough
They all have glaring flaws as well, which is why the choice feels like it carries more weight than it does in FO4. There's really no objectively "good" or "evil" option..it's all nuance and shades of grey
I don't know if it's Bethesda's bad writing (quite possible) or one of the writers actually wanted to make the player sympathetic to the Enclave. The Enclave in Fallout 3 literally want the same thing as the Brotherhood, and I guess in that situation the Enclave is a little more evil than Lyon's Brotherhood, against any other Brotherhood chapter, the Enclave would be the good guys.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Yeah I've been playing through the fallout games recently again after 5-6 years. Refreshing myself with the story and the lore now being older and more wise (hopefully) Im having a harder time seeing the downsides of the Enclave now. I can see why "kill all mutations" isnt a very good generalized belief to have, but they are pretty much the Pre-War Brotherhood
@Dynamitewolf t4 they are mutants. Only people from the enclave are real humans untouched from radiation and FEV. All other inhabitants have mutations.
The institute has a stable food supply, functional air conditioning, toilets, and showers. People have dismissed and ignored evils worse than the Institute in real life. Anything for a little comfort.
My big problem with Fallout 4 is that you can't really reform the Institute. Seriously, the Institute is basically a Dictatorship with you as the Dictator and you can just tell the Institute to stop attacking people and actually rebuild the Commonwealth with their technology.
I think what I hate most about the Institute and the Railroad is that either their motivations or their methods make no sense. The Institute replaces people with synths but to what end??? They never tell you and seems like they’re just doing it to do it. And the Railroad alters synth memories to be different people so really they didn’t save anyone they just killed a synth and made a new different synth. It’s your mind that defines who you are, your experiences, your history that makes you, you. So the Railroad doesn’t save a single synth as far as I can tell.
Ok, great video. But I gotta say. The Minutemen do actually make sense, Bethesda's representation and execution of it just makes them come off as milktoast. I say they made a mistake making you meet them after their defeat by the gunners. But thats no my point The minutemen at it's core is a very primitive Federalist Militia Government. They essentially unite all the settlements (that you're supposed to build up and create trade routes with eachother) with the guarantee of protection. The Settlements get to do what they want (within reason) and get to enjoy their prosperity. In return the Minutemen protects them when needed. Killing local raiders and gunners, defending the Commonwealth's borders. It is a simple yet effective system. Almost exactly how the early United States was governed. If bethesda had expanded on this and written their questline better, I think more players would recognize this.
@@postindustrial76 That's kinda the problem. I don't need a flare gun for the brotherhood. They do their job with or without me. The minutemen are in limbo unless you tell them to get off their asses.
Honestly the Brotherhood would’ve worked if all they wanted was to either destroy or lock away the technology to make synths, and capture the rest of the Institute’s tech. You could even have a moment where the player gets to decide whether the production of Synths should be locked away or just destroyed.
This feels like an extremely surface level take The Institute (imo) are meant to be like a colonial power where in theory they can be a beneficial force with the right leader but usually are pretty harmful to their colonies (commonwealth) The Railroad is an activist militia group than never intended to control the commonwealth so no wonder they don't have a plan for ruling it The Brotherhood is an offshoot group of radicals and isn't part of the ones we knew so it makes sense their ideology could change so much over time. They are as evil as the Enclave wanting a world of purebloods (tho their definition is noticeably wider)
Except they're not beneficial. The Institute in the game has never done anything helpful for the commonwealth besides joining the settlement alliance before the game starts. That just ended in the Institute destroying it. The Institute has provided no benefit to the commonwealth in anyway. The railroad not only has no plans to rule, but also seemingly don't care about the plight of the common folk. They assume all the settlers are against synths and do nothing to change their minds and just focus on recruiting people who are already like minded. They're so out of the way that they might as well jot exist for the common people. I agree with your take on the brotherhood, but the Brotherhood has always been racist against Ghouls and supermutants. Which it's reasonable for them to hate supermutants since the east coast has never come across any super mutant that hasn't tried to murder them on sight.
Im glad im not the only one in the community who thinks the institute was absolutely dissapointing and had so much potential (same with the brotherhood and minutemen)
Personal thoughts? I do like the theme of the minutemen, it's why most of my mods revolve around them. Infinite (Non consuming) ammo laser musket being one of them, alongside giving them a proper, but still somewhat ragtag unifom retexture (And then another reused, retextured army fatigues issued to officers and artilery crew, with the colonial duster, also retextured like the minutemen outfit also getting some use by certain people of interest) Mostly cause all the other factions are too self interested in their own goals. The institute are happy to stay in their underground haven. The railroad, as mentioned. Exist because the institute does. The BOS will F off once their objectives are complete, once boston has been stripped clean of all the tech they could be interested in. . The minutemen however, post game. could definately pick up some ex institute scientists to get some more assets. Plenty of tugboats around boston, alongside rail lines and trains that could be repaired. Hell, there is even a tugboat with a working power plant at spectacle island. The institute's know how could get the steel mill inbetween finch farm and the slog working again, robots being useful for mining in one of the 2 quarries (Assuming automatron is installed) Or even just expanding/repeating graygarden's successful application with em. Plenty of mr handys in the boston area after all. When you really stop and think about it. A faction that exists to rebuild and fortify the commonwealth, to be safe from it's threats. And exists purely to help people? Who's to say the minutemen won't return in a future fallout game? I don't know about you. But it would be cool to see a minutemen controlled ironclad (Built at the irish pride drydock, for instance, or found and repaired, steam into new york harbor. Even if they are a more minor faction in a hypothetical fallout new york, perhaps you help them secure a route for a literal railroad from boston to new york, securing stations and points of threat around the tracks, to allow regular trainloads of food and aid into new york, they would be quite a friendly face, provided the player is willing to help people in the city. If you are... less than friendly though. They did bring some big guns. Hell, thinking about it. They might see the value in setting up on the island where the statue of liberty is today. ... huh. Bethesda might actually consider something like that. They put all the pieces in place that it might be possible after all.
Actually playing fallout 3 again Elder Lyon's descision to fight the super mutants is well within the traditions of the BOS. They covert tech so that other factions can't use it to cause another apocalyptise. They stayed to contain the super mutant threat because elder lyons was actually capable of thinking in the long term and recognised the super mutant threat in the capitol wasteland for what it is.
“No faction was necessarily evil” the enclave literally attempted to commit the largest genocide in human history. And don’t even get me started on the legion.
Both have reasons for doing so, and in the end, would have made things better for their people, maybe less so than other factions, but they had an end goal. The enclave wanted to rebuild America and face no resistance, the legion wanted to restore order by force. On the other hand, the institute just terrorizes the wasteland and creates an army of slaves and when we ask why we are just told "yuo wouldnt uderstand!!!!"
Even the abomination intent on destroying the human race that was the Master did everything he did to make sure humanity could survive and thrive in the wasteland
Fallout nv first play throughout sided with house. Fallout 4 the institute first brotherhood second. Let’s be honest, super mutants are annoying as all hell, with their bs taunting and dialogue. Also keep in mind that maxon in f4 is a different breed from the others in the brotherhood
Family is another reason to side with the Institute, them being the only real choice if taken with the Minutemen adds to it Teleportation makes the help in minutes more achievable Thats what i always go for, Inst/MM Gameplay and story segregation aside.
I'm one of your latest 'K' and I definitely enjoy your take on the Fallout games. The 'Play it your way-ability' of Fallout games makes for all kinds of interdasting outcomes.
I'm really hoping FO5 is about how the Enclave infiltrated the BoS after the events of FO3 and is now doing exactly what they did Pre-War. Operating from the Shadows.
The legion has a point to their brutality, to an extent. The legion is god awful and horribly brutal, but even NPC’s in game admit that caravans and travelers in legion territory are decidedly safer than in NCR territory. The institute on the other hand performs horrible experiments for seemingly no purpose, besides “it’s funny to expose people to FEV and release them afterward”.
I agree the minutemen are my favorite in fo4 because of their ideals in game and I would like them to be in future games but it probably won't happen because the only reason they become powerful is with the help of the sole survivor so bethesda would have to make the minutemen the cannon ending for the game to explain why they would appear in a future game
Well the only outcomes I can see becoming canon is the Minutemen destroying the BoS and the Institute, or the three factions surviving and the Institute being destroyed. Of course that’s assuming we’re given a clear answer to the ending
It feel like the original plan was likely to have it be "You make all the factions work together against the Institute." Which I think would have 100x better but then they felt that A) Just making the Institute evil would be a bad idea and B) after New Vegas people would want faction choice.
Lol my first full play through was heavily modded, especially the institute quest line and location. Ended up reforming the institute and making peace with all the other factions. Good Institute ending should have been possible in vanilla
Why can't the railroad just be a reaction to the institute and the synths? Its not like the underground railroad switched to a new mission once slavery was outlawed. So I don't see how thats a valid criticism of them at all. There needs to be variety in the purpose of factions. Heres the real problem. There needs to be is different endings for factions besides you beat the game with them and killed who they wanted you to kill. A hypothetical would be say you use the railroad to free the synths, destroy the institute, and dissolve after mission accomplished but also setup the minutemen to reform the CPG and forge a truce with the BoS. That would be a cool ending based on your choices. So ideally like in New Vegas where you coud beat the game with Mr House, NCR, Legion, or Independent but at the same time you also determined your worlds unique future for the Kings, Khans, BoS, Boomers, Casinos, and Towns. In F4 your choices barely even affect the largest settlements, Diamond City and Good neighbor. You just did a few little quests for the citizens and if you kept playing after the end of the main questline you might've gotten to kill the mayor. They are basically unaffected by the larger world. Fallout 4's factions and story are just badly written, lack content, are underdeveloped, or executed poorly. The core ideas for each are interesting but thats kinda it.
@Robert Sallow So you say the actions of a few politicians and scientisit justifies Timmys parents being killed and put into meatbags by Super Mutants. You should work for the Railroad they despise human lives as much as you.
Honestly most factions are total garbage. The brotherhood is a palette swapped enclave. The institute is a misunderstood legion and master. The railroad ideologically is flawed as most synths don’t achieve sentience. The minute men are just annoying to deal with gameplay wise
I've been able to completely make a playthrough so in depth with the enclave mods that I have mastered my own lore and have been able to make lore friendly. I love it
The one thing I hate most with Fallout 4's factions, is that every single one of the 3 non institute factions, are so GODDAM stupid. They all blow up THE most advanced research facility in the entire world! And the reason they all do this is even worse. The reason being that Bethesda wanted a cool explosion, that's it.
I actually enjoyed the factions in fallout 4. My favorite one is the Minutemen. I picked the peace ending(all factions stay alive). However I think comparing the BOS to the nazis is a tad bit extreme. Yes they are racist but we don’t see them stuffing ghouls in camps to torture them and they don’t kill ghouls on sight(if that was the case they would kill Hancock the second you fast travel to the Prydwyn). Plus we never see them try to attack good neighbor and Danse likes it when you help Billy(the ghoul kid) & Holly with the library quest. However I will admit that Maxson is just plain crazy & overzealous. It was a mistake to put him in charge because he’s just too young & hot-headed. Also It really ticks me off that you couldn’t use a speech check to convince Arthur to spare the railroad. That’s where the mindless overzealous attitude kicks in for them. Because the railroad is helping synths, The BOS think that they’re “aiding the enemy”. Which is obviously not the case because not all Synths are evil. Just The ones that are loyal to the Institute. The BOS don’t understand the term “negotiation” lol 😆.
Does the brotherhood even know that synths can be independent from the institute? That seem to operate under the belief that all of them are sleeper agents or aware agents of the institute. The railroad are random wastelanders helping synths, when they should be concerned with their survival like all other settlers. Looks a bit suspicious given your main foes have a habit of using sleeper agents...
@@myriad9597 Well like I said before the brotherhood are overzealous in this game. They believe that all synths are abominations and they should be destroyed. Plus they see anyone who aids them an enemy to the commonwealth. I do agree that the institute trying to replace humanity with these machines is an abomination. However not every single synth is a killer robot. Some should be put down(the coursers) and others should be left alone because they’re peaceful(like Curie).
The biggest problem with Fallout 4's faction system is... the lack of independancy. Why New Vegas's system worked is because the war between the NCR vs Legion, while was polarizing, you still had other options. Most notably not even Mr. House (albeit it was a very interesting choice), but Yes Man. That's right: the biggest issue I have with the system is that you aren't allowed to be independant, but that you're forced to join one of them, and the game tries so hard to navigate you towards meeting the Minutemen within the first few minutes of the game that it's obvious they were designed as a fail-safe. That's why Preston is not even a real companion, but more like a moving radiant quest generator that can help you reach a new point in the game ASAP. My solution for this would be: - Let the player deal with many of the things without any additional influence from any of the factions - Then basically mashup the Railroad/Minutemen into a combined faction with combined goals. Now that you actually have to reach out to them rather than you becoming their "leader" in the first few minutes, the whole faction makes more sense and their goal seems to be more appealing too. Not just that, but them having the secondary goal of freeing as many synths as possible seems like a good counter-reaction to everything happening in the Commonwealth too. This would have also allowed the developers to work on Nuka-World more in a way that the Nuka Raiders could have become the de facto 4th faction of the game in a way that you could have actually beaten it by joining those raiders, creating an interesting "everyone hates each other" system which would have made much more sense (meanwhile the Minutemen and Railroad not fusing does NOT make any sense).
anyone against the BoS in fallout 4 or the Enclave because "they hate mutants and that's racist"! Take a moment to think... how many Feral ghouls and super mutants do you, the god powered ultra lucky and near invincible, player mow down in the span of most fallout games? Now compare that number to the number of friendly NPC ghouls that will actually interact with you (and don't happen to also try to kill you)... kind of one sided eh? Then realize that even in power armor, the regular person in fallout is far more susceptible to death via a number of variables the player shrugs off with a good ol stim pack. Now imagine your goal is to try and make the world a safer place as a small but well armed group of regular joes (and not super god player). do you A) risk possibly your whole operation and go by an individual basis to discover which ghouls and mutants can, and cannot, be reasoned with. Keeping in mind that deaths will most likely occur and as such your ability to help will shrink dramatically with every one. or B) simply be on high alert and use the majority of cases you've encountered thus far to use as a base line to guide how you interact with these groups? Sure, you come off as a little paranoid and a bit of a prick, but it generally means you don't have super mutants or feral ghouls ripping you or your buddies apart. Enclave just had the extra nice time of running into slavers, druggies, cannibals, and other crazy sorts of wastelanders... hence why they just said "screw this, let's wipe the slate clean, bring things back to a manageable level, and start over with what ever is left!"
Yeah, it's funny how Bethesda tries to make them evil, but just ends up making them good at their job. The only real problem is still sentient ghouls, but at least they don't shoot them on sight.
I really think fallout 4 was rushed. Look at the first 20 mins of the game. It delves so deep into what is going on in just the tutorial/cutscene, with the intro of the game being the speech that you’re going to read at the Veteran’s Hall. Once you step outside of the vault, everything drops off. They probably worked on: map, textures, coding of enemies, environments, and were saving flushing out the story for last, but that wasn’t Todd’s agenda, and the game got pushed out way too early. Imagine finding the perfect ingredients for a wonderful cake, but the head chef in the kitchen forces you to take it out before it’s ready and to serve it completely uncooked. You’re not going to compliment the chefs on the quality of the sugar, or the eggs, you’re gonna be pissed that your cake is still in a mixing bowl.
The Institute's moral good is academic elitism. Like literally "We r smrt, therefore we r gud". Which sounds fucking insane to most people, but my wife's one and only playthrough of any Fallout game was an Institute playthrough of F4; and because she is a west coast (of North America) academic to her "We're smart and have cool shiny stuff for you to play with" was all it took to convince her they were clearly the best and correct faction. And yeah, murder is a part of that elitism. They think the surface and everyone on it is doomed, a lost cause, despite the preceding 210 years of lore proving them wrong. So every horror they unleash upon said doomed surface-dwellers is actually a mercy, hastening the world along to its inevitable end... so they can then emerge into the stillness and take over. The Brotherhood do destroy technology they deem too dangerous. The sole previous example of such a technology is FEV though, so I can understand why most people would forget about that...
The Minutemen are my favorite faction. They don't lie to you and tell you they'll help you find Shaun and then do nothing (Railroad). They don't try to force your settlements to feed them in exchange for the--non-existent--protection that they are providing (BoS). The Institute is just flat out evil, lead by a man who says he is your son but never even making an attempt to prove it (i.e. they think you are an idiot). The only real problem with the Minutemen is that from the outside they seem to be a little boring but are in actuality the true heroes quietly going about the business of rebuilding the commonwealth.
I like the concept of the Railroad better as a faction of liberators, taking technology and freely giving it to the people. This would clash with the Brotherhood and institute very nicely. The Minutemen I wanted to see take over everything for the betterment of the Commonwealth, a join or die situation. Personally I want factions that are morally grey, do things both good and bad. As it stands, I play for whichever gives me the best rewards because that's something I use in my game play.
The boring factions is why I mess around with mods instead of the actual story to the point where I stayed in the early parts if the first act for such a long time on my latest playthrough
Awesome vid! Only thing I would rephrase at the start is "no faction was necessarily evil or good" into "no faction allows for a ethical outcome or can claim moral superiority." Kinda like in Warhammer 40k. There are no good guys. Only actions and goals with varying justifications, to circumvent the question of whether that's moral or ethical.
I think the biggest reason to join the institute is that the wasteland might never recover and people will keep killing each other forever, while the institute is a small, civilized community that have enough resources to keep humanity alive forever
I mean speaking long term the Institute might be the best choice because you are left as the leader so you can therefore free the gen 3 synths and help rebuild Boston with your pre war knowledge maybe also go on the Kellog side by enhancing yourself with robot parts
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see The Railroad’s negatives as negative. It doesn’t matter if they disband or become irrelevant after the Synths are free, because that was their whole goal. The whole point the Railroad was made in the first place. If there is no more Synth problem, there is no more reason for The Railroad to exist. That’s not really bad. It had a mission and it completed it. Worlds a better place, etc.
My biggest qualm with F4 BOS, is the fact that they just destroy the institute without taking and learning ANY tech. Artificial food, underground farms, nuclear reactor, and Gen 1 and 2 synth are useful to the BOS as they use robots and gen 1 and 2 are dumb enough to not have the problems of Gen 3. The very basic, super-simplified BOS philosophy has always been hoard advanced tech because the public can't be trusted with it and they destroy essential tech that could be used for infrastructure. I wish Minutemen were an actually fleshed out faction with lore and a series of quests instead of just being the dollar-store "Independent" ending.
I only pick the Institute because they're extremely technologically advanced and I headcanon that my character will make them stop being assholes. If you don't like headcanons though, they are by far the worst choice. Also the railroad is a fine faction on their own, you just shouldn't pick them as your only faction. Freeing people they believe are enslaved is a noble goal and there's nothing wrong with them being a temporary faction that does that, but you should also work with the minutemen if you do work with them.
Bethesda saw obsidian’s essay and tried to remake it and turn it in as their own. The problem is obsidian got an A and Bethesda got a summer school program
The railroad should be something like the courier & actually be getting things together for a railroad Right? Then theyd be like "the spider" varys, with little birds whispers & proto NCR Testing out rails with goals like the minutemen, being parallel Like an active city Transportation & information helps with that Then the institute wanting to take over the radio waves, building satalite sites in a pattern out for a bigger project Like the deathstar emitters being the sites, mabie they're actively fighting the Zetans and protecting people with secret synths to scout out incoming craft that were expected to fall from some test shots Also information management & That could be a conflict of the railroad & institute The institute eventually wanting all the radio waves, to become a think tank against the Zetans, wanting to hide the information till they have enough synths to quell fears And begin the battle The railroad thinking people need to know & wanting free information for all If they're a service for transportation, how about we see both vendors & relief works? Like a railroad Gypsy With the Zetans tech you can make a monorail 🚝?
The brotherhood of steel in fallout 4 pisses me off. Elder maxon shouldn't who he is because that just isn't his character. What pisses me off even more is that Bethesda was going to give you an option to become elder, but they just straight removed it.
I always end up as a minuteman agent that manipulates the railroad and bos into destroying the institute, then each other before I finally assassinate maxson and have the minutemen destroy the commonwealth bos, I would like to see this end up being the canon ending because to my knowledge it's the only ending where one faction survives
B.O.S: Seems the outcasts took over if you look at terminals on the Prydwen. Institute: You can make the argument that they only become good when you become director thus making the decision to stop the kidnappings. Railroad: Should've been how you described or replaced by The Gunners. Minutemen: Wish their was more to them than CPT.Gravey shouting to save this settlement over and over.
Did my man really just say Caesar's legion is neither good nor bad? Slavery and Sexism do seem like two very bad things to me and any faction allowing, encouraging and perpetuating such behavior can quite easily be deemed as bad, while still regarding them as a complex and multi dimensional construct.
The Minutemen were a good frame for what a faction should be....but that's it. It's like the development team had ideas for it, and then got told at some point to just drop it and move on to something else which is sad. Every faction gives off that vibe. Like an outline of who and what they are was made, but after that outline was made functional in-game, they just got told "Yep, that fat lady can sing, now let's move on to the next fat lady." Bethesda isn't run by game artists, they're run by businessmen now. When I was a kid, the people making video games were the people that wanted to play a fun video game. Like writing a book: "Write the book you yourself would like to read." That's what they did. And now we don't see that much anymore because almost the entire focus is on $ $ $. Yes, that's important too, but if people aren't having fun what reason do they have to come back for any sequels you make in the future? Hint: They won't.
I feel like for many people the minutemen were ruined by Preston and poor game design regarding him. He had a good backstory in my opinion but the repeatable settlement quests he gave the player ruined him as a character for me and probably many others, which in turn made many people dislike the minutemen, still my favorite faction though
Doesn't even make sense for The Minutemen to destroy The Institute. They have the Technology to really improve lives in the Commonwealth and the best thing would be to have the Sole Survivor become Minutemen General and Institute Director and force the two Factions to merge.
Counter argument for each of your cases: Institute: Calling them more evil than caesar's legion is just flat-out wrong. At worst they're a toned-down version of Big MT, where they've been trying to better humanity through science. Replacing humans with synth dopplegangers isn't their primary goal, either. Far harbor showed that Acadia, who were very anti-institute, ended up resorting to the same methods to keep peace on the island. The legion straight up just enslaves and murders thousands of people for the sake of growing their power, not to mention their treatment of women. Brotherhood: the brotherhood wanting to exterminate all synths isn't a unique trait. Diamond city, goodneighbor, covenent, and other commonwealth settlements all feel the same way towards synths and would rather see them gone than to continue to replace their loved ones. Railroad: its completely fine for a group to not have a long-term goal. Theyre the main enemy of the institute, so it makes sense that destroying the institute is their only goal. Plus, they never become enemies with the minutemen and can easily work together with them to rebuild the commonwealth
- The Institute should have been written to use Synths in place of abusive or corrupt leaders to slowly nudge the people of the Commonwealth in the right direction from the shadows, plus use their synths to try and eradicate the Super Mutants they released on accident. - Like you said, the Railroad should have been a Followers of the Apocalypse-type faction. Hell, maybe they could just be a branch of the followers sent East like with the Hubologists. - The Brotherhood should have been written to want to seize the technology of the Institute due to the unrest of civilians, even though the Institute is attempting to use it for good. Those are more well written factions.
It's interesting how I've heard people say that New Vegas is a spin-off of Fallout 3, mainly said because of the game engine. But with the information we get about both the Institute and the Railroad in Fallout 3, Fallout 4 feels like the spin-off to Fallout 3 because of its story and setting relative to 3's while New Vegas feels like the true numbered sequel. That might just be me who feels that way though.
Technically it would be classified as a spin off as it wasn't a numbered game and was outsourced to a different studio, but that doesn't mean it will spin off.
@@TheOmegaInitiative I understand that, spin-off might've been the wrong word for me to use. An add on, a tacked on addition, that's what many people seemed to think New Vegas was to 3 for a long time because of the game mechanics and engine. But story wise it felt more like a true sequel to me than 4 did, that's what I meant. Unlike Fallout 2 which let you visit developed aspects of Fallout 1, Fallout 4 felt like it was outright re-hashing elements and aspects of 3, despite it taking place in a different location. I dunno, I just really don't like 4 for many reasons, one of which is the same reason I'm not that fond of 3 anymore either, the re-hashing of too many critical elements from previous games. I can easily excuse 2 for doing so the way it did because it still threw plenty of curveballs to keep the whole thing interesting, but 3 copying both the water problem and Enclave problem, _while_ bringing in the Super Mutants without doing anything truly plot relevant other than having them as a common enemy type... I'm ranting at this point, it's surprisingly easy to do with Bethesda's Fallout games. Either way, been loving your videos, thank ye for the reply and I look forward to your next vid. :)
Kinda disagree with the Brotherhood bit near the end. I can see them deciding that technology shouldn't reach a certain level. That it could change humanity and so deciding it must be destroyed forever.
the railroad: synths are people the institute: synths are tools the brotherhood: synths are an abomination of technology the minutemen: bruh as long as they can man an artillery cannon i literally dont care
The institute "were going to just replace people high and low in the westland"
Player "are you doing this to build a base of support and act as a shadow government for the commonwealth to slowly rebuild society with you at the top while keeping local power down with the use of the mutants and removing potentially troublesome leaders"
The institute "Eh no"
The Railroad "we want synths to be free"
Player "and?"
The Railroad "No thats all"
The minutemen "another settlement needs your help"
Player 'loads fatman with murderous intent'
The Brotherhood "they're all abominations"
Player "how are you the most reasonable people in this shit show"
I just murder everyone in goodneighbor and shoot settlers on site rather than complete there radiant quest. Youre know the game has amazing writing when just murder the NPCs like a sociopath rather than hear there sh*t dialogue.
Meanwhile I could have a RP Fiend sociopath cannibal character in New Vegas and I'd still be like. "Wait lets at least exhaust the dialogue or find other ways to RP into this quest than just mass murder. Joining the Brotherhood and just putting Goodneighbor to the sword, not far behind wanting to wreck Diamond City.
They aren't tho.
Railroad: "We want to help a group that is actively being enslaved, and destroyed"
Institute: "We are going to manipulate the commonwealth so it isn't a threat and make sure we have the resources to survive. Also Synths aren't fucking people they are just designed to pretend to be!"
Minutemen: "We want to protect most of the commonwealth and also begin building infrastructure."
Brotherhood: "Hmm their are an awful lot of greenskins, wrinklybois, and shiny people here. Lets kill em."
Like I don't think the institute is good but I don't understand how people think they are worse than the commonwealth Brotherhood, the Enclave, or even debatably Caesars legion.
@@anotherperson2627 Ad Victorium brother
@@anotherperson2627 the only argument for ceasers legion is oh well they see the best way to rebuild society in the image of another society with constant issues and many wars but hey its a different way to have a society are the same people who would side with thanoss because he had a vision for the universe that he thought might be good. Neither took any account for the citizens and how it may effect them they just did what they seen as best. I have yet to see a single argument telling how they would do any good at all other than that
@@anotherperson2627 yeah but here's the thing tho the railroad could help people who are enslaved not just one species but instead they opt to only help synths instead of other people who are probably in a worse position than synths are also the institute won't be able to figure out that the railroad is helping humans who are enslaved because the have their heads so far up their asses that they literally can't see what's going on around them
Sole survivor with 12+ intelligence: ''Shaun, why are you doing all of this""
Father with 6 intelligence: ''You wouldn't get it''
That’s because you wouldn’t, you just arrived, it’s a faction that focuses on the advancement of science whatever the cost. Also stats basically don’t matter anymore, just look at Ulysses.
Father's full of crap. Advancement at any cost is like falling for anything because you stand for nothing. The Institute can't help but undo itself one way or another. Their methods make unnecessary enemies.
@CocoaXtv_ you are correct. Even though a bit sarcastic, but that is The truth.
@@brok56 not anymore *cough cough* outerworlds
@@brok56 i dont know outer worlds wasnt that good and simping for Obsidian is what the fallout nv Fanbase does the most
And forgeting that without fallout 3 there would be no New vegas
I know that the Enclave being in the Commonwealth wouldn't make much sense, but they should have either been in the game or just replaced the BoS. Waking up in a post-apocalypse and finding the remnants of the government you once served as a soldier to maybe even join them again would be really cool
The X-01s in Boston, so they must've been there at some point.
@@TheOmegaInitiative true
Well, Arcjet is just kinda chilling there and the Enclave did want to go to space. I don't know why there is so many X-01s though, that wasn't even the suit that they use, I guess just for the player to get suits and that's it
@@TheOmegaInitiative
Bethesda just forgot or retconned the X-01. There is a specifically post-war X-01 suit.
The Enclave was destroyed twice already, in fallout 2 and 3. Keeping them alive would destroy the Lore much more than racist Brotherhood of steel.
Gunners were never fleshed out too. They had a cool background. Ex Vault dwellers were the expiriment was to produce OP mercenaries. Now roaming the Wasteland working for pay. they're an enemy of the minutemen but they never did anything with them. Can't even talk to them. They're just hostile npc. That whole minutemen vs gunners had potential. And made more sense fighting them than the quest line with the institute.
Effectively just raiders with a military aesthetic. What an incredible way to create more player engagement with the setting.
I confused gunners for gun runners(foNV) for half of the game. It was interesting to think a former gun manufacturers( with guards wearing combat armor) turn into a violent merceneries and kill minutemen.
Except that was never confirmed. That's just a fan theory
The only friendly gunners were guards for a merchant
I had always believe the Gunners was a NCR sponsored Merc Company, like a more legalized way to leave other factions fractured so them building up a resistance is impossible, so when the time comes and the NCR goes full-enclave, they will obliterate the Minutemen and Railroad, only the Institute and BoS acting as actual threats.
The BoS in fo4 is like Hegelian Dialectics in reverse if you start from BoS and enclave in fo3. They just took the annoying parts of both sides and mixed them together.
No the BOS in fallout 4 are pretty accurate given the Brotherhood and Outcast issue, allowing both to meet up again.
Honestly I feel like if we didn’t say “noo the brotherhood is suppose to be evil!” About 3 for no reason at all, we’d probably be given a better faction.
As for Hegelian dialectics- a big issue with that is it’s been roughly subverted to a degree of marxist dialectics which ‘turned Hegel on his head’
The latter usually slap the former’s name onto their own.
Like saying “Liberty” and “federal government” so much that we drown out the first succession from the union was barred from voting after being burned at the stake in war- and given how 1 guy targeted farms and civilian places just to cause damage… yeah.
For federal government and ‘banning slavery’ read the 13th amendment with the ‘except’ involved, and 14th amending with the idea of ‘states rights’ involved.
Now take into account the Soviet Union had 13 maybe 15 places succeed from them peacefully
@@silent_stalker3687 what countries peacefully seceded from the Soviet Union? The USSR collapsed
@@TimRosenburg not in fallout.
@@silent_stalker3687 Incredibly based and accurate to US history
@@AVerySexuallyDeviantOrange want to know some more on current events?
Check the documentary ‘Ukraine on fire’ and check Jimmy Dore- while not exactly great his video on the Ukraine is very accurate.
Summary.
America backed a coup in Ukraine in 2014, changed leaders and everything- Clinton even was involved in a leaked audio.
Also remember Gadafi or whoever was that ‘he bombed his own citizens’? That guy?
Yeah, Ukraine has been doing that for 8 years- 14,000 dead from shells alone and 81% civilian targets.
Recently the Uk dropped javelin missiles (I think it’s what it called) on civilian targets over a few weeks before the russian stuff.
Look at economic freedom chart and see Ukraine and see the corruption there.
That place was the heart of the Biden scandals and put Hunter Biden on a board.
Now look at America’s economic freedom.
We’re 25th- China is 50.
3 years ago we were the 12th freest economy in the world.
I never understood why the BoS in F4 destroys the Institute like that, it would be more BoS style if they made them surrender, convince scientists to join the BoS and kill the rest. Let's not forget that the BoS could benefit from the synths, programming them to only serve the BoS and with that they would have one of the biggest armies in the wasteland. Just my thoughts feel free to add.
I was thinking that, but I also think that they might just kill the scientists, I mean, I don't know of any Enclave scientists working for the Brotherhood soooo...
@@TheOmegaInitiative Makes sense when you consider there is already a former BoS scientist in the Institute, so what keeps former(or spy) Enclave scientists from joining.
@@Not_Revelant Li never really liked the Brotherhood, she only works with them to defeat greater threats. According to Danse the Enclave are a "traitorous group of rebels". So the Brotherhood might not even allow Enclave personnel to join.
@@TheOmegaInitiative I think Enclave would like to see what the Institute is working on and may sneak in an agent or two since we know that the Institute is gathering personel from the wasteland.
@@Not_Revelant It wouldn't be impossible, it's just a case of whether the Enclave would know about the institute, and even then it might be difficult if say they all evacuated to Chicago after Fallout 3.
We really need a joinable Enclave. Somehow. Maybe you start in Enclave and have a choice to leave it or not. But I really want to play as Enclave.
Steel reign on pts might have a reveal.
Theres america rising mod.
@@ethannetzel4236 Mods can only go so far
@@TheOmegaInitiative I wouldn't count on bethesda doing anything with the enclave
Enclave should have been in fo4 a us army soldier frozen in time wakes up in a wasteland 200 years later and find a remnants of the United States Government the story could still be you looking for your son but the enclave is another faction you can side with and their goal is to capture the institutes manufacturing to make a synthetic army or some shit like that
I guarantee you everybody would hate the Minutemen less if Gravy didn't automatically give you a new radiant quest when you turned in one
That or if they were an actual faction with a real presence in the wasteland besides in the player's playgrounds and actually stood for something besides 'we're the good guys that help people'
There exists a mod that makes it so Garvey does JUST that. It revealed what appeared to be cut dialogue where upon completing the quest, he says something like *I'll let you know when another settlement needs our help.* And he eventually will. He'll talk about it if you walk past him, but he won't forcegreet you, you actually have to respond to him in order for him to give it to you.
Tbh, once you setup shop in the Castle you could have the Radio Operator give you the quests. You can talk to him and ask him if he has a quest ready. Then you can say yes or no.
@@normalplayer7377 so what im hearing is to send Garvey to my modded settlement in the glowing sea to forever be forgotten, hopefully making him go feral because he can't tell anyone that a settlement needs your help how he seems to always know raises suspicions of Garvey not even being human. Though him having no one to tell that a settlement needs help is a two sided sword he could go feral or go on an insane quest for vengeance. Garvey has insane powers of regeneration like every companion from fallout 4 has, have you noticed how not one companion can die they all have regenerating abilities essentially even more immortal than Lorenzo Cabot maybe not in age but they all could survive eating a mini nuke if eating it whole was possible. I think the player character is being manipulated by the mysterious dunwitch being (this isallouttheass)
@@nagger8216 i know one of my mods(might be odst minutemen) causes halo gun toting odst patrols of minutemen to appear in the wasteland but the fix shouldnt have to be mods
I also love the Minutemen. I’ve always loved rag tag militias and I enjoyed being able to build up settlements. They’re the one faction that actively seems to be trying to rebuild. That said, none of Fallout 4’s factions particularly grabbed my interest the way the ones in New Vegas did.
The Minutemen had plenty of potential. Like having them actually restart the Commonwealth government as an ending. The Minutemen as a faction being able to grow beyond the colonialist militia structure into a leading military force to counter the hidden scourge of the Institute and the invading Brotherhood. Perhaps the Sole Survivor leads a team of Minutemen into an abandoned military base(maybe an old stationing base from your past) with the a distress beacon. Inside you find all kinds of equipment and tech to upgrade the Minutemen to a proper army. Perhaps over the course of the game, events can happen that somewhat mirror American military history like Pro-Synth and Anti-Synth factions breaking out resulting in civil war and opportunities to side with the Railroad and Brotherhood respectively. The story could end with the Brotherhood assaulting the Castle or perhaps old military base and you must defend against waves of paladins before facing Liberty Prime and killing him. A mirroring of the Broken Steel Brotherhood assault on the Enclave. I think that would have been neat and added a lot more character to the Minutemen.
If you rename F4s B.O.S to "The Inquisition of Steel", then their actions in game would make more sence.
Its creative bankruptcy, you could start a forum on how to make a faction and the community could easily come up with something much better
As they often do with mods
@@nanomachines2985 Because that’s what a mod is, an advancement of something that already exists, there exists mods that makes New Vegas better too but does that make it a bad game?
@@Ludovicus1769 TLDR my comment was intended to agree but with jaded and cynical undertones... it doesn't work well speaking versus typing...
Longer version: new Vegas was digital gold. Somehow obsidian made the best entry even while making the player need power armor training.
But also here's why i was agreeing with Republic Radio. fallout 4 is one example of the result of creative bankruptcy. For as many things as they did rightin fo4, imo, it was a bad fallout entry with an objectively bad story that both took away the "RP" in "RPG" and seemed to openly and publicly rely on modders to make improvements to it. Never seen or heard of a game take that approach until fo4.
So that's story. As far as more technical stuff, i can't help but shake the feeling that bethesda took the oldest version of their patented game engine--probably when Morrowind was still new, then re-skinned it with fo76 textures because apparently it just works. That's how broken and unplayable that game was and still is in many ways. Another example of creative bankruptcy. It's like they hired the guys that code for PUBG to develop 76.
But to your point, if a good game is good in its vanilla form, like 1, 2, 3 and NV, then mods will only elevate the experience. They shouldn't be actual fixes for the developer's design oversights.
@@nanomachines2985 I know, that’s why I disagree with you, I have an easy time RPing in Fallout 4, and I do believe that it’s a good RPG too, however we do agree on one thing, Power Armour Training is extremely dumb.
@@Ludovicus1769 lol ah, I thought you might have misunderstood me. Never mind then. I guess we simply disagree on most of that. But yes, as much as i loved 3 abs NV, the power armor training requirement gave me various forms of hepatitis.
It just works- Todd Howard
It works, but it's not good.
GER: No it fucking dosent
I liked the idea of the Minutemen but I think they could've been written and done way better
They could of been interesting with quest centered around creating alliances, a standing army, patrol routes and outpost for trading and civil defense, laws and bodies of enforcement, governmental bodies to help micro manage, and other nation building stuff.
I was hoping they’d be a NCR type deal but we’d be in from the ground up building it but instead we got a janky settlement building system that needs mods to be fun
@@scorchercast8366 that’s a modern Bethesda game in a nutshell, good concept but requires heavy modding to be actually enjoyable as a game
Brotherhood of Steel: ANYTHING NOT HUMAN DIES! [Enclave: "Hey that's our thing!"]
Institute: We have a plan to complicated to explain to you.
Railroad: Save the talking toasters!
Minutemen: We only exist in case you've managed to tick off the other factions...
I think that a Minuteman/Brotherhood alliance would be the best thing for the future of the commonwealth. Maybe have the minutemen act as the ‘police’ with the brotherhood acting like the ‘military’ in the situation after the institute for a time until the commonwealth gets its infrastructure built up enough to be secure enough for the brotherhood to pull out and return to the citadel.
I've been saying this for years. Really wish this was a option in-game
Anytime I side with the Minutemen I blow that zeppelin out of the sky.
That was the head cannon I came up with. But I wish the institute didn't have to be blown up. It makes no sense to destroy that much hard work, and technological innovation.
@@SneakyHuntingHT make the minuitemen into something like the California rangers with more punch
Hell no the minutemen are okay with friendly supar mutants and ghouls and friendly synths too the brotherhood thinks all of those are abominations
I wish that fo4 have smaller factions to help with the fight on the institute or bos. The fight for both those factions felt kinda bland and nothing to really remember unlike Hoover dam with the boomers and others
Thats the cool thing about NV having 3 main factions and many mini factions which means even fighting for an independent Vegas can mean many things as far as it being the right choice or not
@@jeambeam3173 they could’ve made a ending were all of the factions team up to fight the institute. Although they would Have to make the institute way bigger
Yeah
@@smoothiedude5919 Maybe not bigger, just more defensible.
tbh, fallout 4s map seems 200000 times smaller than New Vegas, because its all boring, new vegas is a huge map with mini lore everywhere, and fallout 4 is a bit boring in the means of it being dry
Institute: comic book mini scientists, you can also never actually interact with the evil side of the Institute if you side with them, all you can do is interact with them on the surface level.
Railroad: they really don’t make much sense, a group as a niche as the railroad would never actually exist, who would bother freeing a tiny number of synths, where there is actual slavery of real humans in the wasteland?
Minute men: their fine for the most part in my opinion, the only thing that’s kind of strange with them is how are Larping around with the colonial uniforms.
Brotherhood: what you said, but also I don’t understand why distrust of ghouls is portrayed as if it’s some kind of irrational, or unreasonable bigotry. All ghouls go feral eventually on account of their long lives and rotting bodies. Sometimes it’s slow, sometimes without warning. If you were a wastelander, would you let somebody who is guaranteed to eventually try to kill somebody into your town? Would you let that person watch your child? Of course not. The answer to the ghoul bigotry problem is ghouls having their own place, like Necropolis.
They do have their own place. The Slog.
@@hugehappygrin Yes, but there is some narrative dissidents there, you have a little ghoul settlement of Slog, but then you also have cities like good neighbor.
So you have some goals living in a city with both humans and Ghouls, whining about not being allowed into the other major city, and then you have other Ghouls that are off founding their own towns. Both are presented as valid and good, but one is obviously a far more permanent and peaceful solution than the other.
I found it stupid how every faction that fights the institute always blows up their base. The institutes facilities would exponentially increase the power of any faction due to all its tec and it would allow them to produce weapons, armor and ammo. If use right the institutes base could turn any some what well organized group into a supper power. And if they reinforces and cover up the hole they made they could have a hidden base almost un assessable to anyone else.
Weapons and armors are one thing, but more importantly are their terraforming technology.
We already seen their base, how they can have clean drinking water and lush vegetation growing even underground.
Their facility clearly can give FAR greater output than several G.E.C.K. combined, and if used correctly, can revert that part of the States back to it pre-War self. But no, let nuke the damn thing.
Institute: Least developed with no active goal besides continuing the status quo to keep them on top as the spectre of the commonwealth. A primary argument in their favor would either be hyper utilitarian because of the benefits of their tech or a self-insert ending because the SS becomes director.
Railroad: Short-sighted, but I wouldn't frame that as a negative. The faction most compassionate to synths is the one least effective in the long term, so the player is forced to make the choice about how much synths matter when the entire Commonwealth is at stake.
Minutemen: A good faction conceptually. Whether or not they matter is dependent on player input and roleplay. I've had a lot of fun with Minutemen playthroughs but their impact is seldom reflected in the game. Elevating the average wastelander is the greatest way to develop the entire region, but it never feels that way.
Brotherhood: My primary contention with the video. Eastern BOS suffered a schism in F3 with the Outcasts, therefore F4's BOS is a result of their reconciliation. Still involved in the wider wasteland like Lyon's but as crusaders. They've got the might to pacify the Commonwealth but they aren't too interested in infrastructure or governance.
I'm pretty sure the BOS is interested in infrastructure and governance. I heard somewhere that the Capital Wasteland is being run like a fiefdom. So maybe after the Institute is dealt with they'll transition from an invading army to a more peace keeping force.
The BoS strong arm blackmails the farmers.
"Maybe the laser muskets were taking it a bit too far"
The use of laser muskets as opposed to other plentiful modern weapons is what nearly drove the minutemen to extinction, imo
Laser Muskets should have been wide-up hand cranks, not single-shot hand loaders.
@@Samm815 I could definitely see that being a better option, especially if microfusion cells were given the same mechanical treatment as fusion cores (i.e. each shot takes x percentage off the capacity rather than expending the whole thing)
To be fair a highly cranked laser musket works better then any sniper in the game when using it like a sniper 💀😂 has its use but yes they should of widely adopted other guns and used laser muskets as a low tier grunt weapon or sniper
@@VIPERJ27 in the hands of the player character, yeah, they can be pretty solid in a sniper rifle role. In terms of the minutemen, who were an all volunteer militia often facing off against enemies that outnumbered and outgunned them on the regular, it's a pretty terrible option for standard issue, not just because of how long it takes to put fire downrange, but also because lasers in the FO universe have the same problem tracers do irl...they give away one's position
It's a bit late to be honest XD the faction writing was not Bethesda's best in fallout 4 anyway.
But at least I've got (most of) my grievances with fallout 4 of my chest, so hopefully I don't have to ever talk about it again.
i actually find the brotherhood as the most realist faction yes the institute is a threat and the the synths are a threat too as imagine the ability to infiltrate anywhere with sleeper agents and destroy factions from within. and for this the brotherhood does gets points for being responsible and not falling for temptation of such power. Maxon is right to compare the synths to the nuclear bomb that went out of controlled and cause the apocalypse. i mean i played wasteland 2 and that games shows how synths destroyed entire communities and staged false flag attacks hell it's they who caused nuclear war. the minuteman are just corrupt and ineffective and without you they would have been wiped out.
You lead the minuteman, how are they corrupt if you yourself aren’t lol
@@cadestockman5731 is this a serious question? It’s not uncommon in reality for a leader of a group or nation have corrupt officials under them. A leader can have good ideals, but u still need people to handle things, and everyone doesn’t operate the same lmao
@@Eli-akad simply don’t have corrupt officials under you….. you lead them lmao
@@cadestockman5731 u gotta be a kid or sum cause life not that simple😂
@@Eli-akad it’s the wasteland, Did none of you play new vegas? Ever heard of the legion? It rly is that simple lol.
The brotherhood behavior in 4 was in line with western brotherhood, it’s a massive part of why fallout tactics happened.
I could've sworn the Institute just Killed the Person who they Replaced. Jesus if So
I think they might do that sometimes, but when there's room, they would take them back to be experimented on.
My thoughts on Fallout 4's Factions:
Brotherhood: you killed off the Lyons, fuck you. I didn't mine the East BoS being good guy becuse their problem was being divided and over stretched. Also Super-mutants always being hostile is just Bethesda being lazy.
Railroad: why are you a major faction? Not a bad faction but a single issue group like this would normal be a minor in other games
Institute : what even is your goal here besides being dicks? lot of wasted potential
Minutemen: An actually good faction with well written lore, moderations, and characters; all of with is immediately scarified at Fo4's alter of Toyification so that the player can have some new play things and a glorified mission board.
Gunner: A real faction with a lot of potential that the game end up treating like deluxe raiders. remember the cool potential connection to Vault 75?
The Minutemen are NCR in the time between 1 and 2,I love them cause that
To be fair the brotherhood does collect institute tec and they have a few synths who are being examined but yes the factions are a bit biased
What fallout new vegas does that I love is what faction to side with. They all have purpose and it's really hard to decide to join
I must not have a soul I’m NCR all the way
Tbf the Legion are basically objectively bad guys, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't constantly conflicted about which of the other 3 I should choose in each playthrough
They all have glaring flaws as well, which is why the choice feels like it carries more weight than it does in FO4. There's really no objectively "good" or "evil" option..it's all nuance and shades of grey
The Enclave proves that they are the good guys
I don't know if it's Bethesda's bad writing (quite possible) or one of the writers actually wanted to make the player sympathetic to the Enclave. The Enclave in Fallout 3 literally want the same thing as the Brotherhood, and I guess in that situation the Enclave is a little more evil than Lyon's Brotherhood, against any other Brotherhood chapter, the Enclave would be the good guys.
@@TheOmegaInitiative Yeah I've been playing through the fallout games recently again after 5-6 years. Refreshing myself with the story and the lore now being older and more wise (hopefully) Im having a harder time seeing the downsides of the Enclave now. I can see why "kill all mutations" isnt a very good generalized belief to have, but they are pretty much the Pre-War Brotherhood
@Dynamitewolf t4 they are mutants. Only people from the enclave are real humans untouched from radiation and FEV. All other inhabitants have mutations.
@Dynamitewolf t4 what do you mean I got negative karma???
@Dynamitewolf t4 it was joke about getting negative karma for using the fev virus in the purifier in fallout 3. Calm the fuck down
The institute has a stable food supply, functional air conditioning, toilets, and showers. People have dismissed and ignored evils worse than the Institute in real life. Anything for a little comfort.
My big problem with Fallout 4 is that you can't really reform the Institute. Seriously, the Institute is basically a Dictatorship with you as the Dictator and you can just tell the Institute to stop attacking people and actually rebuild the Commonwealth with their technology.
They made the Brotherhood a budget version of the imperium of man
I think what I hate most about the Institute and the Railroad is that either their motivations or their methods make no sense. The Institute replaces people with synths but to what end??? They never tell you and seems like they’re just doing it to do it. And the Railroad alters synth memories to be different people so really they didn’t save anyone they just killed a synth and made a new different synth. It’s your mind that defines who you are, your experiences, your history that makes you, you. So the Railroad doesn’t save a single synth as far as I can tell.
Ok, great video. But I gotta say. The Minutemen do actually make sense, Bethesda's representation and execution of it just makes them come off as milktoast. I say they made a mistake making you meet them after their defeat by the gunners. But thats no my point
The minutemen at it's core is a very primitive Federalist Militia Government. They essentially unite all the settlements (that you're supposed to build up and create trade routes with eachother) with the guarantee of protection. The Settlements get to do what they want (within reason) and get to enjoy their prosperity. In return the Minutemen protects them when needed. Killing local raiders and gunners, defending the Commonwealth's borders. It is a simple yet effective system. Almost exactly how the early United States was governed. If bethesda had expanded on this and written their questline better, I think more players would recognize this.
I would agree, if the minutemen actually went out and cleared any raider bases or supermutant hide outs. That's the player doing all that shit
@@VexdinLord That's your choice you can have minutemen help you during the game, preston gives you a flare gun for that reason.
@@postindustrial76 That's kinda the problem. I don't need a flare gun for the brotherhood. They do their job with or without me. The minutemen are in limbo unless you tell them to get off their asses.
Can we all talk about how the bos in fallout 4 arent in x02 or 03 armor after defeating the enclave stationed in the capital
Honestly the Brotherhood would’ve worked if all they wanted was to either destroy or lock away the technology to make synths, and capture the rest of the Institute’s tech.
You could even have a moment where the player gets to decide whether the production of Synths should be locked away or just destroyed.
This feels like an extremely surface level take
The Institute (imo) are meant to be like a colonial power where in theory they can be a beneficial force with the right leader but usually are pretty harmful to their colonies (commonwealth)
The Railroad is an activist militia group than never intended to control the commonwealth so no wonder they don't have a plan for ruling it
The Brotherhood is an offshoot group of radicals and isn't part of the ones we knew so it makes sense their ideology could change so much over time. They are as evil as the Enclave wanting a world of purebloods (tho their definition is noticeably wider)
Except they're not beneficial. The Institute in the game has never done anything helpful for the commonwealth besides joining the settlement alliance before the game starts. That just ended in the Institute destroying it. The Institute has provided no benefit to the commonwealth in anyway.
The railroad not only has no plans to rule, but also seemingly don't care about the plight of the common folk. They assume all the settlers are against synths and do nothing to change their minds and just focus on recruiting people who are already like minded. They're so out of the way that they might as well jot exist for the common people.
I agree with your take on the brotherhood, but the Brotherhood has always been racist against Ghouls and supermutants. Which it's reasonable for them to hate supermutants since the east coast has never come across any super mutant that hasn't tried to murder them on sight.
Im glad im not the only one in the community who thinks the institute was absolutely dissapointing and had so much potential (same with the brotherhood and minutemen)
Personal thoughts? I do like the theme of the minutemen, it's why most of my mods revolve around them. Infinite (Non consuming) ammo laser musket being one of them, alongside giving them a proper, but still somewhat ragtag unifom retexture (And then another reused, retextured army fatigues issued to officers and artilery crew, with the colonial duster, also retextured like the minutemen outfit also getting some use by certain people of interest)
Mostly cause all the other factions are too self interested in their own goals. The institute are happy to stay in their underground haven. The railroad, as mentioned. Exist because the institute does. The BOS will F off once their objectives are complete, once boston has been stripped clean of all the tech they could be interested in.
. The minutemen however, post game. could definately pick up some ex institute scientists to get some more assets. Plenty of tugboats around boston, alongside rail lines and trains that could be repaired. Hell, there is even a tugboat with a working power plant at spectacle island. The institute's know how could get the steel mill inbetween finch farm and the slog working again, robots being useful for mining in one of the 2 quarries (Assuming automatron is installed) Or even just expanding/repeating graygarden's successful application with em. Plenty of mr handys in the boston area after all.
When you really stop and think about it. A faction that exists to rebuild and fortify the commonwealth, to be safe from it's threats. And exists purely to help people? Who's to say the minutemen won't return in a future fallout game? I don't know about you. But it would be cool to see a minutemen controlled ironclad (Built at the irish pride drydock, for instance, or found and repaired, steam into new york harbor. Even if they are a more minor faction in a hypothetical fallout new york, perhaps you help them secure a route for a literal railroad from boston to new york, securing stations and points of threat around the tracks, to allow regular trainloads of food and aid into new york, they would be quite a friendly face, provided the player is willing to help people in the city. If you are... less than friendly though. They did bring some big guns. Hell, thinking about it. They might see the value in setting up on the island where the statue of liberty is today.
... huh. Bethesda might actually consider something like that. They put all the pieces in place that it might be possible after all.
Actually playing fallout 3 again Elder Lyon's descision to fight the super mutants is well within the traditions of the BOS. They covert tech so that other factions can't use it to cause another apocalyptise. They stayed to contain the super mutant threat because elder lyons was actually capable of thinking in the long term and recognised the super mutant threat in the capitol wasteland for what it is.
“No faction was necessarily evil” the enclave literally attempted to commit the largest genocide in human history. And don’t even get me started on the legion.
Both have reasons for doing so, and in the end, would have made things better for their people, maybe less so than other factions, but they had an end goal. The enclave wanted to rebuild America and face no resistance, the legion wanted to restore order by force.
On the other hand, the institute just terrorizes the wasteland and creates an army of slaves and when we ask why we are just told "yuo wouldnt uderstand!!!!"
Even the abomination intent on destroying the human race that was the Master did everything he did to make sure humanity could survive and thrive in the wasteland
@@tyaz6556 who tf said I support the institute? They’re horrible people too, but they’re not genocidal rapists hellbent on murder
@@tyaz6556 the institute is equal to the enclave in how horrible they are.
@@tyaz6556 he would’ve AT LEAST let some humans live out their days. The enclave literally would’ve killed everyone. EVERYONE.
Todd Howard: The Enclave is so evil you can't join it!
Also Todd: HAHA FUNNY HUMAN THAT IS ACUTALLY A HUMAN TURNED INTO A ROBOT GO BRRRRRR
The Brotherhood is essentially a lighter enclave in 4
Fallout nv first play throughout sided with house. Fallout 4 the institute first brotherhood second.
Let’s be honest, super mutants are annoying as all hell, with their bs taunting and dialogue.
Also keep in mind that maxon in f4 is a different breed from the others in the brotherhood
spoilers:
you forgot about the fact that the player character’s son is the leader of the institute
Family is another reason to side with the Institute, them being the only real choice if taken with the Minutemen adds to it
Teleportation makes the help in minutes more achievable
Thats what i always go for, Inst/MM
Gameplay and story segregation aside.
I'm one of your latest 'K' and I definitely enjoy your take on the Fallout games. The 'Play it your way-ability' of Fallout games makes for all kinds of interdasting outcomes.
the rail road should've been a minor factions, hell there should've been a bunch more minor factions
I'm really hoping FO5 is about how the Enclave infiltrated the BoS after the events of FO3 and is now doing exactly what they did Pre-War. Operating from the Shadows.
How is The Institute more evil than Caesar's legion?
The legion doesn't kidnap you, replace you and then kill you through experimentation
@@ItsRawdraft2 Yeah, they just kidnap you, enslave you and crucify you. So much better amirite?
The legion has a point to their brutality, to an extent. The legion is god awful and horribly brutal, but even NPC’s in game admit that caravans and travelers in legion territory are decidedly safer than in NCR territory. The institute on the other hand performs horrible experiments for seemingly no purpose, besides “it’s funny to expose people to FEV and release them afterward”.
@@fort809 The Institute tried to create superior humans and clear The commonwealth from organized opposition.
I agree the minutemen are my favorite in fo4 because of their ideals in game and I would like them to be in future games but it probably won't happen because the only reason they become powerful is with the help of the sole survivor so bethesda would have to make the minutemen the cannon ending for the game to explain why they would appear in a future game
Well the only outcomes I can see becoming canon is the Minutemen destroying the BoS and the Institute, or the three factions surviving and the Institute being destroyed. Of course that’s assuming we’re given a clear answer to the ending
It feel like the original plan was likely to have it be "You make all the factions work together against the Institute." Which I think would have 100x better but then they felt that A) Just making the Institute evil would be a bad idea and B) after New Vegas people would want faction choice.
Lol my first full play through was heavily modded, especially the institute quest line and location. Ended up reforming the institute and making peace with all the other factions. Good Institute ending should have been possible in vanilla
Why can't the railroad just be a reaction to the institute and the synths? Its not like the underground railroad switched to a new mission once slavery was outlawed. So I don't see how thats a valid criticism of them at all. There needs to be variety in the purpose of factions.
Heres the real problem. There needs to be is different endings for factions besides you beat the game with them and killed who they wanted you to kill. A hypothetical would be say you use the railroad to free the synths, destroy the institute, and dissolve after mission accomplished but also setup the minutemen to reform the CPG and forge a truce with the BoS. That would be a cool ending based on your choices. So ideally like in New Vegas where you coud beat the game with Mr House, NCR, Legion, or Independent but at the same time you also determined your worlds unique future for the Kings, Khans, BoS, Boomers, Casinos, and Towns. In F4 your choices barely even affect the largest settlements, Diamond City and Good neighbor. You just did a few little quests for the citizens and if you kept playing after the end of the main questline you might've gotten to kill the mayor. They are basically unaffected by the larger world.
Fallout 4's factions and story are just badly written, lack content, are underdeveloped, or executed poorly. The core ideas for each are interesting but thats kinda it.
You take words back!
I aint no BoSS fanboy but I think they are the only faction in 4 that have some resembalence of logic
@Robert Sallow You just repeat what he said. Only faction with logic.
@Robert Sallow They kill you
@Robert Sallow They all potionally can no matter if they themselves want to or not
@Robert Sallow Compare the amount of violent humans ti the amount of violent ghouls, mutants or synths to violent humans and then come back.
@Robert Sallow So you say the actions of a few politicians and scientisit justifies Timmys parents being killed and put into meatbags by Super Mutants. You should work for the Railroad they despise human lives as much as you.
Honestly most factions are total garbage. The brotherhood is a palette swapped enclave. The institute is a misunderstood legion and master. The railroad ideologically is flawed as most synths don’t achieve sentience. The minute men are just annoying to deal with gameplay wise
I've been able to completely make a playthrough so in depth with the enclave mods that I have mastered my own lore and have been able to make lore friendly. I love it
I feel like maybe the railroad should be a subfaction of the minutemen? Like the firebreathers are to the responders?
The one thing I hate most with Fallout 4's factions, is that every single one of the 3 non institute factions, are so GODDAM stupid.
They all blow up THE most advanced research facility in the entire world!
And the reason they all do this is even worse.
The reason being that Bethesda wanted a cool explosion, that's it.
I actually enjoyed the factions in fallout 4. My favorite one is the Minutemen. I picked the peace ending(all factions stay alive). However I think comparing the BOS to the nazis is a tad bit extreme. Yes they are racist but we don’t see them stuffing ghouls in camps to torture them and they don’t kill ghouls on sight(if that was the case they would kill Hancock the second you fast travel to the Prydwyn). Plus we never see them try to attack good neighbor and Danse likes it when you help Billy(the ghoul kid) & Holly with the library quest. However I will admit that Maxson is just plain crazy & overzealous. It was a mistake to put him in charge because he’s just too young & hot-headed. Also It really ticks me off that you couldn’t use a speech check to convince Arthur to spare the railroad. That’s where the mindless overzealous attitude kicks in for them. Because the railroad is helping synths, The BOS think that they’re “aiding the enemy”. Which is obviously not the case because not all Synths are evil. Just The ones that are loyal to the Institute. The BOS don’t understand the term “negotiation” lol 😆.
Does the brotherhood even know that synths can be independent from the institute? That seem to operate under the belief that all of them are sleeper agents or aware agents of the institute.
The railroad are random wastelanders helping synths, when they should be concerned with their survival like all other settlers. Looks a bit suspicious given your main foes have a habit of using sleeper agents...
@@myriad9597 Well like I said before the brotherhood are overzealous in this game. They believe that all synths are abominations and they should be destroyed. Plus they see anyone who aids them an enemy to the commonwealth. I do agree that the institute trying to replace humanity with these machines is an abomination. However not every single synth is a killer robot. Some should be put down(the coursers) and others should be left alone because they’re peaceful(like Curie).
The biggest problem with Fallout 4's faction system is... the lack of independancy. Why New Vegas's system worked is because the war between the NCR vs Legion, while was polarizing, you still had other options. Most notably not even Mr. House (albeit it was a very interesting choice), but Yes Man. That's right: the biggest issue I have with the system is that you aren't allowed to be independant, but that you're forced to join one of them, and the game tries so hard to navigate you towards meeting the Minutemen within the first few minutes of the game that it's obvious they were designed as a fail-safe. That's why Preston is not even a real companion, but more like a moving radiant quest generator that can help you reach a new point in the game ASAP.
My solution for this would be:
- Let the player deal with many of the things without any additional influence from any of the factions
- Then basically mashup the Railroad/Minutemen into a combined faction with combined goals.
Now that you actually have to reach out to them rather than you becoming their "leader" in the first few minutes, the whole faction makes more sense and their goal seems to be more appealing too. Not just that, but them having the secondary goal of freeing as many synths as possible seems like a good counter-reaction to everything happening in the Commonwealth too.
This would have also allowed the developers to work on Nuka-World more in a way that the Nuka Raiders could have become the de facto 4th faction of the game in a way that you could have actually beaten it by joining those raiders, creating an interesting "everyone hates each other" system which would have made much more sense (meanwhile the Minutemen and Railroad not fusing does NOT make any sense).
and it was explainable in fallout 3 brotherhood breaking away but it wasnt "help people?" "yes" they had a reason to.
anyone against the BoS in fallout 4 or the Enclave because "they hate mutants and that's racist"! Take a moment to think... how many Feral ghouls and super mutants do you, the god powered ultra lucky and near invincible, player mow down in the span of most fallout games? Now compare that number to the number of friendly NPC ghouls that will actually interact with you (and don't happen to also try to kill you)... kind of one sided eh? Then realize that even in power armor, the regular person in fallout is far more susceptible to death via a number of variables the player shrugs off with a good ol stim pack. Now imagine your goal is to try and make the world a safer place as a small but well armed group of regular joes (and not super god player). do you A) risk possibly your whole operation and go by an individual basis to discover which ghouls and mutants can, and cannot, be reasoned with. Keeping in mind that deaths will most likely occur and as such your ability to help will shrink dramatically with every one. or B) simply be on high alert and use the majority of cases you've encountered thus far to use as a base line to guide how you interact with these groups? Sure, you come off as a little paranoid and a bit of a prick, but it generally means you don't have super mutants or feral ghouls ripping you or your buddies apart. Enclave just had the extra nice time of running into slavers, druggies, cannibals, and other crazy sorts of wastelanders... hence why they just said "screw this, let's wipe the slate clean, bring things back to a manageable level, and start over with what ever is left!"
Yeah, it's funny how Bethesda tries to make them evil, but just ends up making them good at their job. The only real problem is still sentient ghouls, but at least they don't shoot them on sight.
I really think fallout 4 was rushed. Look at the first 20 mins of the game. It delves so deep into what is going on in just the tutorial/cutscene, with the intro of the game being the speech that you’re going to read at the Veteran’s Hall. Once you step outside of the vault, everything drops off. They probably worked on: map, textures, coding of enemies, environments, and were saving flushing out the story for last, but that wasn’t Todd’s agenda, and the game got pushed out way too early. Imagine finding the perfect ingredients for a wonderful cake, but the head chef in the kitchen forces you to take it out before it’s ready and to serve it completely uncooked. You’re not going to compliment the chefs on the quality of the sugar, or the eggs, you’re gonna be pissed that your cake is still in a mixing bowl.
I'm a little bit confused, what is this "Fallout 76" you were talking about at the end of the video???
congrats on 1000 subs
The Institute's moral good is academic elitism. Like literally "We r smrt, therefore we r gud". Which sounds fucking insane to most people, but my wife's one and only playthrough of any Fallout game was an Institute playthrough of F4; and because she is a west coast (of North America) academic to her "We're smart and have cool shiny stuff for you to play with" was all it took to convince her they were clearly the best and correct faction. And yeah, murder is a part of that elitism. They think the surface and everyone on it is doomed, a lost cause, despite the preceding 210 years of lore proving them wrong. So every horror they unleash upon said doomed surface-dwellers is actually a mercy, hastening the world along to its inevitable end... so they can then emerge into the stillness and take over.
The Brotherhood do destroy technology they deem too dangerous. The sole previous example of such a technology is FEV though, so I can understand why most people would forget about that...
The Minutemen are my favorite faction. They don't lie to you and tell you they'll help you find Shaun and then do nothing (Railroad). They don't try to force your settlements to feed them in exchange for the--non-existent--protection that they are providing (BoS). The Institute is just flat out evil, lead by a man who says he is your son but never even making an attempt to prove it (i.e. they think you are an idiot). The only real problem with the Minutemen is that from the outside they seem to be a little boring but are in actuality the true heroes quietly going about the business of rebuilding the commonwealth.
I like the concept of the Railroad better as a faction of liberators, taking technology and freely giving it to the people. This would clash with the Brotherhood and institute very nicely. The Minutemen I wanted to see take over everything for the betterment of the Commonwealth, a join or die situation. Personally I want factions that are morally grey, do things both good and bad. As it stands, I play for whichever gives me the best rewards because that's something I use in my game play.
BOS in Fallout 4: Ad Victoriam!!✊🏻
BOS in Fallout 4: You sure we're not the Enclave?🤔
Yes, thank you! You've made an entire video on something that is only kind of mentioned by other videos
Desdemona: " would you take a bullet for a synth?"
Me: " I mean I hate the institute like everyone else, but I wouldn't risk my life for a toaster".
The boring factions is why I mess around with mods instead of the actual story to the point where I stayed in the early parts if the first act for such a long time on my latest playthrough
Awesome vid! Only thing I would rephrase at the start is "no faction was necessarily evil or good" into "no faction allows for a ethical outcome or can claim moral superiority."
Kinda like in Warhammer 40k. There are no good guys. Only actions and goals with varying justifications, to circumvent the question of whether that's moral or ethical.
I think the biggest reason to join the institute is that the wasteland might never recover and people will keep killing each other forever, while the institute is a small, civilized community that have enough resources to keep humanity alive forever
I mean speaking long term the Institute might be the best choice because you are left as the leader so you can therefore free the gen 3 synths and help rebuild Boston with your pre war knowledge maybe also go on the Kellog side by enhancing yourself with robot parts
Bos pre 3: we don’t bother people as long as they don’t bother us
Bos in 3: we like to help people
Bos in 4: we don’t like people
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see The Railroad’s negatives as negative. It doesn’t matter if they disband or become irrelevant after the Synths are free, because that was their whole goal. The whole point the Railroad was made in the first place. If there is no more Synth problem, there is no more reason for The Railroad to exist. That’s not really bad. It had a mission and it completed it. Worlds a better place, etc.
The problem is that any other faction could easily accomplish that and much, much more.
My biggest qualm with F4 BOS, is the fact that they just destroy the institute without taking and learning ANY tech. Artificial food, underground farms, nuclear reactor, and Gen 1 and 2 synth are useful to the BOS as they use robots and gen 1 and 2 are dumb enough to not have the problems of Gen 3. The very basic, super-simplified BOS philosophy has always been hoard advanced tech because the public can't be trusted with it and they destroy essential tech that could be used for infrastructure. I wish Minutemen were an actually fleshed out faction with lore and a series of quests instead of just being the dollar-store "Independent" ending.
I only pick the Institute because they're extremely technologically advanced and I headcanon that my character will make them stop being assholes. If you don't like headcanons though, they are by far the worst choice. Also the railroad is a fine faction on their own, you just shouldn't pick them as your only faction. Freeing people they believe are enslaved is a noble goal and there's nothing wrong with them being a temporary faction that does that, but you should also work with the minutemen if you do work with them.
The Brotherhood turned into The Enclave just without shooting on-site
Bethesda saw obsidian’s essay and tried to remake it and turn it in as their own. The problem is obsidian got an A and Bethesda got a summer school program
The railroad should be something like the courier & actually be getting things together for a railroad
Right?
Then theyd be like "the spider" varys, with little birds whispers & proto NCR
Testing out rails with goals like the minutemen, being parallel
Like an active city
Transportation & information helps with that
Then the institute wanting to take over the radio waves, building satalite sites in a pattern out for a bigger project
Like the deathstar emitters being the sites, mabie they're actively fighting the Zetans and protecting people with secret synths to scout out incoming craft that were expected to fall from some test shots
Also information management
& That could be a conflict of the railroad & institute
The institute eventually wanting all the radio waves, to become a think tank against the Zetans, wanting to hide the information till they have enough synths to quell fears
And begin the battle
The railroad thinking people need to know & wanting free information for all
If they're a service for transportation, how about we see both vendors & relief works?
Like a railroad Gypsy
With the Zetans tech you can make a monorail 🚝?
5:10 that time brotherhood troops gunned down a bunch of megaton citizens because of a misunderstanding with water shipments...
The brotherhood of steel in fallout 4 pisses me off. Elder maxon shouldn't who he is because that just isn't his character. What pisses me off even more is that Bethesda was going to give you an option to become elder, but they just straight removed it.
Guess the only good faction in fallout 4 is the minute men
I always end up as a minuteman agent that manipulates the railroad and bos into destroying the institute, then each other before I finally assassinate maxson and have the minutemen destroy the commonwealth bos, I would like to see this end up being the canon ending because to my knowledge it's the only ending where one faction survives
B.O.S: Seems the outcasts took over if you look at terminals on the Prydwen.
Institute: You can make the argument that they only become good when you become director thus making the decision to stop the kidnappings.
Railroad: Should've been how you described or replaced by The Gunners.
Minutemen: Wish their was more to them than CPT.Gravey shouting to save this settlement over and over.
Did my man really just say Caesar's legion is neither good nor bad? Slavery and Sexism do seem like two very bad things to me and any faction allowing, encouraging and perpetuating such behavior can quite easily be deemed as bad, while still regarding them as a complex and multi dimensional construct.
The Minutemen were a good frame for what a faction should be....but that's it. It's like the development team had ideas for it, and then got told at some point to just drop it and move on to something else which is sad. Every faction gives off that vibe. Like an outline of who and what they are was made, but after that outline was made functional in-game, they just got told "Yep, that fat lady can sing, now let's move on to the next fat lady."
Bethesda isn't run by game artists, they're run by businessmen now. When I was a kid, the people making video games were the people that wanted to play a fun video game. Like writing a book: "Write the book you yourself would like to read." That's what they did. And now we don't see that much anymore because almost the entire focus is on $ $ $. Yes, that's important too, but if people aren't having fun what reason do they have to come back for any sequels you make in the future? Hint: They won't.
I feel like for many people the minutemen were ruined by Preston and poor game design regarding him. He had a good backstory in my opinion but the repeatable settlement quests he gave the player ruined him as a character for me and probably many others, which in turn made many people dislike the minutemen, still my favorite faction though
Stop analyzing my character, another settlement needs your help, here I'll mark it on your map.
You’re right, my bad Preston
Doesn't even make sense for The Minutemen to destroy The Institute. They have the Technology to really improve lives in the Commonwealth and the best thing would be to have the Sole Survivor become Minutemen General and Institute Director and force the two Factions to merge.
Counter argument for each of your cases:
Institute: Calling them more evil than caesar's legion is just flat-out wrong. At worst they're a toned-down version of Big MT, where they've been trying to better humanity through science. Replacing humans with synth dopplegangers isn't their primary goal, either. Far harbor showed that Acadia, who were very anti-institute, ended up resorting to the same methods to keep peace on the island. The legion straight up just enslaves and murders thousands of people for the sake of growing their power, not to mention their treatment of women.
Brotherhood: the brotherhood wanting to exterminate all synths isn't a unique trait. Diamond city, goodneighbor, covenent, and other commonwealth settlements all feel the same way towards synths and would rather see them gone than to continue to replace their loved ones.
Railroad: its completely fine for a group to not have a long-term goal. Theyre the main enemy of the institute, so it makes sense that destroying the institute is their only goal. Plus, they never become enemies with the minutemen and can easily work together with them to rebuild the commonwealth
- The Institute should have been written to use Synths in place of abusive or corrupt leaders to slowly nudge the people of the Commonwealth in the right direction from the shadows, plus use their synths to try and eradicate the Super Mutants they released on accident.
- Like you said, the Railroad should have been a Followers of the Apocalypse-type faction. Hell, maybe they could just be a branch of the followers sent East like with the Hubologists.
- The Brotherhood should have been written to want to seize the technology of the Institute due to the unrest of civilians, even though the Institute is attempting to use it for good.
Those are more well written factions.
It's interesting how I've heard people say that New Vegas is a spin-off of Fallout 3, mainly said because of the game engine. But with the information we get about both the Institute and the Railroad in Fallout 3, Fallout 4 feels like the spin-off to Fallout 3 because of its story and setting relative to 3's while New Vegas feels like the true numbered sequel. That might just be me who feels that way though.
Technically it would be classified as a spin off as it wasn't a numbered game and was outsourced to a different studio, but that doesn't mean it will spin off.
@@TheOmegaInitiative I understand that, spin-off might've been the wrong word for me to use. An add on, a tacked on addition, that's what many people seemed to think New Vegas was to 3 for a long time because of the game mechanics and engine. But story wise it felt more like a true sequel to me than 4 did, that's what I meant.
Unlike Fallout 2 which let you visit developed aspects of Fallout 1, Fallout 4 felt like it was outright re-hashing elements and aspects of 3, despite it taking place in a different location.
I dunno, I just really don't like 4 for many reasons, one of which is the same reason I'm not that fond of 3 anymore either, the re-hashing of too many critical elements from previous games. I can easily excuse 2 for doing so the way it did because it still threw plenty of curveballs to keep the whole thing interesting, but 3 copying both the water problem and Enclave problem, _while_ bringing in the Super Mutants without doing anything truly plot relevant other than having them as a common enemy type...
I'm ranting at this point, it's surprisingly easy to do with Bethesda's Fallout games. Either way, been loving your videos, thank ye for the reply and I look forward to your next vid. :)
Kinda disagree with the Brotherhood bit near the end. I can see them deciding that technology shouldn't reach a certain level. That it could change humanity and so deciding it must be destroyed forever.
Also they just made the BOS just the Enclave with less hatred and more fortunate son playing in the background.
the railroad: synths are people
the institute: synths are tools
the brotherhood: synths are an abomination of technology
the minutemen: bruh as long as they can man an artillery cannon i literally dont care