Shoeless Joe Jackson: Hall of Fame Worthy?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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Much controversy had surrounded Shoeless Joe Jackson after he was involved in allegedly throwing the World Series, here his story is told. Did Jackson help through the series or not, what do you think?
No question. Jackson belongs in the HOF. Enough is enough.
David Frigault you could....ballpark it.
He was robbed by that goat Landis commissioner my ass. He broke the law by convicting men that were found not guilty in court. Jackson one of the greatest of all time.
Joe Jackson got a raw deal just like Pete Rose
@@donpatesel7868 Rose gambled over and over again.
@@kingbabe1829 So what? he didn't bet against his own team.
I was fixing an older lady's computer around 2000.. and noticed she had an old Greenville SC phone book from 1951 on her shelf.. hmm I wondered.. I asked if I could look at it, and sure enough Shoeless Joe's business, and even home address and telephone number were right there for anyone to see. We got to talking and she told me how she and other kids used to hang around his liquor store to hear stories and get batting lessons, but Joe would never let any of them into the store, since they were young and he sold alcohol.
Cool
Thank you for sharing that xxx
It is sad that a league that allowed players from the Houston Astros to cheat for a whole season and all the way to a title without a single punishment still wants to keep this guy out despite serving his ban. He was one of the best and even played that way in that series, at some point the league should stop holding a grudge especially since the fans seem to be over it already.
Do you really think throwing world series games on purpose and doing everything you can to get a edge is in the same category?
The reason mlb didn’t do more to the Astros is because they couldn’t. Not without destroying the league. Holding them to that standard would have forced MLB to hold everyone the same. 5 years later we know without further investigation the Yankees redsocks dodgers and many others were using the same tech. This doesn’t make it right. But this is the reason why they let the Astros keep the chip from 2017
It is sad that a league allows the Houston Astros to live would deny Shoeless Joe the HoF.
Dude when they refused to overturn Joyce call on Galaragga perfect game I knew baseball would never ever change
@@colbath012 Joe never threw the series. His stats back that up. He even went to the owner about what was going on and was ignored. He was never at any of the meetings discussing throwing the series. He never took the money.
@@colbath012weak argument to justify wrongdoing even worse than anything Shoeless Joe and his 7 other teammates did!
Its funny even Joe's teammates who had weekly meetings even stated Joe never showed up to any of them. A man who hits .375 which was the best in the 1919 world series,made no errors,and pretty much gave his all. I'm surprised that he still hasn't been reinstated,and sadly the last person who tried to help Jackson get reinstated was"Ted Williams".
I hope he ends up getting reinstated one day,everyone knows he was innocent,and had nothing to do with throwing the 1919 world series.
+john doe You need to see the box scores for the 1919 series. See where Jackson got his hits, and where he didn't. Might change your mind.
@@kyokogodai-ir6hy I think this is inconclusive at best. I looked at the 1919 World Series games in baseball reference which also has a play by play so one can get a sense about when Jackson did or didn't get a hit or help in the offense. In the early games, he got hits early in the game when the game was still on the line. There were key situations when the ChiSox needed a run where he succeeded in helping them score a run and there were others where he failed in helping them score a run. Comparing his performance in the 1919 World Series with that in the 1917 World Series, I would have to say I don't see much difference in his offensive performance in the clutch between the two World Series. However, in the 1917 World Series, he hit .304 vs. .375 in the 1919 World Series. In terms of the pitching staffs of the 1917 Giants and the 1919 Reds, their eras during the NL season are close, with 2.27 for the 1917 Giants and 2.23 for the 1919 Reds. Based on all this, I have to conclude at the plate that Jackson did not throw the 1919 World Series.
Baseball reference didn't have any fielding stats for the 1919 World Series. I had heard and read that he didn't make any errors during the World Series. However, I do remember one source saying that he seemed to slow up on some balls that he wouldn't normally. If this is true, then this is hardly the same fielder who's glove had been described as the place where triples go to die.
sdgakatbk, they weren’t trying to throw every game. In the games they were trying to lose, Jackson got hits when no one was on, knowing that the 3 guys batting behind him were all in on the fix and would get themselves out, and went 0 for 5 w/ RISP. It’s obvious he was participating. Not to mention the fact that he admitted to taking money.
@@kevin6293 They were trying to throw the whole series. The only reason they won three is because Dickie Kerr was on the mound for games three and five and Eddie Clcotte won game seven after he realized he wasn't getting the remaining money promised.
Random Traveler, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. You’re just repeating things you’ve heard other people say. Do some actual research on the subject. They were clearly trying to win the three games they won. Or do you think Gandil was trying to lose when he hit the game-winning RBI in the 10th inning of game 6? Use your head, buddy.
Holly, this almost makes me cry. God bless his soul.
the hall of fame will NOT ever be complete without joe jackson
+j dunbar What about Pete Rose. and maybe another 1919 White Sox.
+Ruben Velazquez Should Pete Rose Go in after going to sleep?
I really think pete rose needs to be in the hof and with out him it is not complete. one player other than Jackson that should have his lifetime ban lifted is buck weaver
+j dunbar Totally agree about Weaver. He didn't have a thing to do with throwing the series, but was thrown away for "guilty knowledge". That is a crime, since many knew (including Johnson and Comisky) that the fix was on.
And Gil Hodges and Pete Rose
Im from Greenville SC myself. I know people who knew the Jackson family and everyone says they were the best kind of people. That Joe was honest and hardworking as can be. He never took anything he hadn’t earned. They are right when they say he paid his debt. He was banned for life. He’s long gone now and he deserves to be in Cooperstown.
I agree, but I don’t believe he even had a debt to pay. He should have never been banned.
@@aknotz Even if we want to accept that he was banned for life…does that mean for death too? It’s time to right this wrong
He took the money so he is guilty. If he was a black man then you would have written that.
@@holdenmcgroin9774 - Sounds like you're holding your brains.
@@Georgie12248 and your wife was holding my b b c
Acquitted and hit .356 lifetime (that's Cobb territory). He deserves to be in the Hall.
My Grandfather knew Shoeless Joe Jackson , he was a neighbor to him in downtown Greenville, South Carolina , My grandfather said Shoeless Jackson was an honorable
man of his words ⚾️⭐ RIP JOE
He clearly took money and threw games ..and perjured himself in 1923....
I have no problem with him being in the HOF but he was crooked and admitted it.
@@robbie192 Just post the document evidence that he was guilty by a jury or judge from a court trial. No statement from any player said they were guilty. All Fake News
It's more of a travesty that Comiskey is still an icon in baseball with a Stadium named after him to boot. He screwed over his players and they opted for revenge and were punished for it while Comiskey got off scott-free for lying, stealing and cheating his players out of their deserved money. And I have trouble accepting the continued life ban of some of these players (Weaver and Jackson) who time has proven never took a dime and played their asses off. The hypocrisy of the Baseball leadership is sickening in that they continue to punish these 2, yet ne'er an eye was batted by any MLB Commissioner over the antics of Comiskey. Sad!
U.s cellular field
That is quite true Jim ,If he had paid 99% of them what they were actually worth they would not have had just cause to throw The Series, The only one on the entire team that got paid what he was worth was Eddie Collins.
I agree and this just doesn't happen in baseball.
Jim Derochea im with ya.
He was a evil owner. I will admit I have had my pic taken with "The old Roman" statue on the outfeild concourse at "The Cell"
Cominskey was awesome. His players were traitors fucks who all should have been shot.
Joe was known to be one of the best ball players amongst his peers, shame he's not in Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown... simply a shame.
Joe took the money.
@@colkidglen8802 But his stats tell a different story. They tell the story of a man who played his heart out. They took advantage of his lack of formal education. It's a real shame!
@@caverlady When the fix was all in, esp game 1, Joe was terrible. As the WS went on most of the guys got pissed at the gamblers and started to try harder, thus the avg for Joe looks good. Cicotte and lefty williams sealed the loss of the series.
No answers needed, Joe Jackson was one of the best players ever. He could hit, run, pitch, catch and do anything else! He deserves the HOF
No he does not.He took the money,and you know it.
@@thetimetraveler7509 if he was trying to throw how do explain him making zero errors 12 hits and .375 average
@@thetimetraveler7509You're wrong Look how he played that series
His skills and stats are not why he isn't in the Hall. And for those saying look at his WS stats, I would tell u to look at the ealry games, esp game 1 when all the guys were full in on the fix, Joe wasn't good. As the series went on, the guys started rebelling and playing harder so Joe's stats look better, except Lefty and Cicotte (the pitchers) who were the main guys to seal the loss.
I just read where Shoeless Joe Jackson was found innocent in a court of law, for betting in that 1919 world series, yet he is still banned from baseball, what kind of people run baseball anyway and why do they think they are above the law. They MLB practically killed that man with that ban, Jackson should be in the hall and put in it today with apology from MLB itself.
Whatever he was the best.
this is the only thing what remain.
Don't worry we got a new commissioner maybe he'll right the wrong
+Jay Cuthbert Courts don't find people innocent. It's either guilty or not guilty.
I don't think that any of the Black Sox were convicted of crimes, and sports leagues have a long history of prioritizing public relations over legal realities, although Commissioner Landis may have started that trend.
The great Ty Cobb played in the same era as Jackson and thought very highly of his talent and abilities
Great segment. Without a doubt this man belongs in the HOF. He is arguably the greatest hitter of all time in baseball.
Rose would hit . 500 in 1919!!
That has nothing to do with why he isn't in. Some of these comments....
Jackson did not know, what he was doing. No offence to him but he was not very smart. He never went to school. I say yes, he should be in the Hall Of Fame.
I think the whole making Shoeless Joe out to be a naive simpleton that couldn't read or write is exaggerated a bit. It's true he was illiterate, but that doesn't make him a complete dummy either. After the ban he ended up going down south and operating a successful dry cleaning business where he had a payroll of a dozen employees or so. Someone as stupid as the fans of Shoeless Joe make him out to be couldn't have done that.
Joe was baseball genius .
That's pretty smart .
@@1981lashlarue Jackson never adapted to big city life, was ashamed of being illiterate and uneducated, was kept in the dark of the true nature of the scam. These things allowed his teammates to manipulate him to take the money because they used his name when talking to the gamblers. He never attended any meetings and was unaware he was even being mentioned.
@@1981lashlarue That was his wife not him, it was a known fact that she was the brains even doing the signing for his autograph requests for much of his life it's why his real signature is so valuable because it was rarely given. In his early days he just used to sign an X, although he eventually learned to sign his own it was always shaky like someone why was just learning.
His wife was a very smart lady though. For there whole life together she managed his money, wrote his letters, and took care of his contracts in and out of baseball. She is the one that led them into more then one successful business, he was more of a face then anything.
I don’t think you have to go to school to be smart.
Wiw, tears just came out my eyes... Joe Jackson and Pete Rose belong in the Hall of Fame.
Amen
I am hoping that in the Field of Dreams game this coming summer between the White Sox and the Yankees the commissioner gives an announcement reinstating Joe Jackson and making him eligible for the HOF.
it is coming back from what I herd on FOX Sports
That obviously did not happen. It is honestly up to the Hall of Fame to decide who is eligible and not MLB. They could easily consider players who were considered permanently ineligible, but choose not to do so. The rule was specifically made to keep the BBWAA from voting for Pete Rose. Joe Jackson was kept out on a gentleman's agreement and nothing more until this rule was put in place. Sure they could have used the dreaded character clause, but we saw how unequally that has been applied over the years.
Yeah right
Shoeless Joe Jackson got banned for life not forever time not that he's dead let him in the Hall of Fame
"Not forever." Brilliant and totally logical. Vote him in.
It's called a lifetime ban, but really what it means is an eternal ban. It doesn't mean now nor has it ever meant the natural life of the person banned. It's forever unless there is reinstatement. What sense does it really make to wait until he's dead to reinstate him?
SHOELESS JOE JACKSON deserves to be in the hall before bonds ever gets considered far better player and he didnt need steroids jackson one of best players ever he was banned for life well when he died that debt was paid in full.
agree. bonds a hater racist who once said ; ' i dont sign for whites' racist bastard!
For God's sake, use some punctuation.
@@graciemaemarie11jones16 If Barry Bonds really said that.....he's a piece of shit.
Barry Bonds (thankfully) will never get elected. After all that's happened with steroids it would give the impression baseball is enabling steroids. Same with Sosa, Palmero, McGuire, and Rodriguez.
I know a few people in various halls of fame and they are almost unknown to most people currently in their sport. Same goes for most professional Hall of Famers. While I agree 100% that Jackson belongs in the hall, I'll bet that Jackson is much better known - more famous - than most players who are in the Hall of Fame, so he really is the winner here. But I still say that he should be in the Hall.
Interesting take.
"Nice guys finish last." Nothing illustrates this more than Shoeless Joe RIP. RESPECT!
"i use to love travelling on the train from town to town.. the hotels.. brass spitoons in the lobbies brass beds in the rooms... it was the crowd rising to their feet when the ball was hit deep.. christ... i would have played for nothing"
Mayb but doubtful
No doubt Jackson belongs in the Hall. Babe Ruth modeled his swing after him! Let Joe in! Thanks for sharing this
He was in on the fix, refuting integrity, sportsmanship and character - essential for consideration to baseball's hall of fame.
I won't ever fully appreciate an MLB commisioner until they make things right by truly understanding the history of baseball.
Dustin Harrison the commissioner is put in by the owners. The fix is in lol
Agreed
@@josephcolella3107 Good point
I don't want to die without seeng Jackson in hall of fame.Please stop this great unjustice, my respect Joe.Felix MD.
Amazing video. Was my favorite legend to read about as a kid. The Shoeless Joe & Me book introduced me to him. Wish more people knew this mans story.
Wish they would ban steroid users for life
Absolutely, but we know that won't happen because home runs sell tickets.
+PCcopeland I'd much rather watch baseball the way it's supposed to be. Small ball is a part of it. Steroids ruined the game
They should just legalism them because Ruth, etc would have used them if they had been available.
You can't know that. You can't speak for what Ruth would have done. In any event... even if true it's a non sequitur.
legasiguy maybe but it was different times. Also steroids where out in the 70s, baseball players weren't using them yet until bo Jackson came to the league. Jackson was just a natural built machine that didn't work out. After him guys started to exercise, workout, entertainment blew up in sports, then guys decided to use roids. There wasn't a rule against doing it. I don't agree with it but if it's available, men are tempted to dance with the devil to get better in many ways.
He didnt do anything. He took the $ but gave it all back. He was iliterate and his lawyer screwed him!
I reccomend reading Shoeless Joe Jackson and Regtime Baseball. In the back of that book are court records that clearly show he did bothing wrong
He shouldn't care so much about the hof. Back then the baseball league was a joke. They wouldn't even clean his uniform and ultra cheap in pay. Sounded like a shit low paying job.
He sat in meeting fella!
If being a saint is what's required to be in Cooperstown, baseball's hall of fame would be completely empty. It'a been long enough, let Shoeless Joe in.
True, and you can begin with Comiskey and Cap Anson as people of questionable character in the Hall of Fame.
He always played to win and it's a damn shame he's not in the Hall.
Joe Jackson did not hit .408 as a rookie.He hit .408 in 1911,his 4th season in baseball.
Jackson hit .408 as a rookie. A player qualifies as a rookie if he had less than 130 at bats in previous seasons and less than 45 days on the roster. Jackson had less than 130 at bats in his first 3 seasons and less than 45 days on MLB rosters.
Regardless of his complicity in the scandal, Jackson belongs in the HOF.
Definitely!
No, not "regardless" of any complicity - that would free anyone of guilt if they were convicted of being complicit (i.e. an "accomplice in a wrongdoing" according to Webster) in a crime. Joe was acquitted and also innocent I believe, as do countless others.
Surely the player with the third highest lifetime batting average deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. This scandal tainted everyone on the team -- not just those who were active in masterminding throwing the series. Some on this forum are suggesting Joe should have ratted out the conspirators. Give us a break! If he had done so, it might have cost him a couple of broken legs or even his life. He was naïve to say the least but his series performance belies any serious involvement in the scandal.
I agree but what MUST be proven is that #1 he had no prior knowledge of The Fix ,#2 that he did not take 1 Dime for The Fix.
Until then he will be in the same boat as Buck Weaver, The Player that sat in conference with The crooked players and Gamblers where the ways and means of throwing a Ball Game was discussed and did not promptly tell his club about it.
how do you throw the series with 12 hits? Money was shoved under his pillow, he didn't solicited it. Landis was a known tyrant as the commissioner disregarding individuals rights. He also vehemently opposed blacks being admitted into the majors. An investigation should have been made on the fact that Jackson was misrepresented by council with a conflict of interest. how could baseball legally and ethically judge on this matter, when they themselves violated the constitution barring blacks.
Joe was banned for life. What the idiots don't understand is that the man is dead, therefore he served his sentence. Time to let him in the Hall of Fame.
I've wanted Shoeless Joe in the HOF ever since he showed up in Ray Kinsella's cornfield.
The man suffered enough. Let him into the hall.
Only a movie fella
@@gregwatson8219 Only a joke fella. I know that some people don't understand sarcasm though.
TY Derek
It is an ABSOLUTE travesty that "Shoeless" Joe Jackson is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame!!! It's LONG overdue to right this wrong and enshrine him into it once and for all!!!
He was banned for life, not forever. He deserves to be in the hall
Shoeless Joe should be in the baseball hall hall of fame as well as Charlie Hustle. Their record speak for them selves. Let Joe Jackson's family rest in piece.
Add Pete Rose (Charlie Hustle) to the list.
Jackson should be reinstated and enshrined well before Rose is even considered.
Never knew the story,but I can believe this one.
We're not going to agree with each other but I would like to put it into perspective. In his first twelve seasons Albert Pujols played in 1,859 games and had 2,246 hits. He played in 527 more games and had 474 more hits. I think their numbers are pretty much tit for tat and I think we can both agree that Albert will be in the HOF. So by the numbers if Joe had played 16 seasons like Albert has then he would have just as good or maybe better numbers than him.
Joe didn't play 16 seasons. Joe was kicked out of basefall because He took the money in 1919 world series.
Don't forget that Jackson racked up those hits during the Deadball Era. In 1920 they wound the ball tighter and have kept it like that since.
Does not excuse his banishment
I agree with his greatness. Joe took the money, he took the money. He was paid to throw the game, he didn't
do it but he Took the money.
Shoeless Joe Jackson does NOT belong in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
It is the BASEBALL Hall of fame, not the FLAWLESS SAINTS Hall of Fame. Men should be put in based on their contributions to the game. Jackson was the best left fielder of his era, and deserves to be in there with the other superstars of the time.
That is truly heartbreaking... 😭
Some hall of fame, when the two greatest players ever are banned from it.
Baseball was evil until 1947 with its sinfull Color Line
Coming from Ty Cobb, saying that Shoeless Joe Jackson was the greatest hitter of all time, is quite the compliment!
Great video. And I hear the great George Michael narrating. Used to lobe watching his show Sports Machine on Sunday nights.
It clearly seems that Jackson played to win throughout the series. The real question is if he truly had alerted Comiskey to what was going on. Despite the beliefs of the people in this clip, I don't think that has been established.Gambling in baseball was and is a cancer that will kill the game. Gutting the White Sox cut out the cancer for that time. But Ruth saved the game.
There are 2 Halls of Fame:
1) The one in a building in Cooperstown
2) The one of legends that live on in our hearts and minds thru verbal stories and written records because of who they were and what they did.
Joe will always be a part of the second HOF.
You hit the nail on the head! Politics does not reduce greatness!
Pete Rose too!
@415 the music in the background is from saving private Ryan "omaha beach".
This makes me want to cry 😢
Always liked Baseball, but I'm a Brit, with a keen interest in history. I read somewhere that the Chicago Cubs are the oldest team in American organized sports. Maybe I'll watch the movie Eight men Out and find a team to support.
That was the Reds.
And The Philadelphia Phillies lost more games!
Pretty much no one left on the planet earth believes Joe Jackson should not be in the Hall. The only reason he is not is because no one is putting enough effort on something that happened 100 years ago. They only care of about the new day. We need to keep the old history of baseball alive so we don't stop trying. Also please vindicate Buck Weaver too.
Paul here. For a man throwing the series, he had a heck of series.
He is safe at home. 🙏
doing what Albert Austrian told him to do got him acquitted of criminal charges. Take the "court of law" speech to Donald Sterling. No court would convict him as the "evidence" of his "crime" would be inadmissible as having been illegally obtained. Also, Landis's ruling not only included throwing a game, but having knowledge of same and not reporting it. This may be debatable if he indeed told Comisky of the fix.
I wonder how much Comiskey made off of this series.... .375 in the Series. Yah, he was in on it. Shoeless Joe needs to be in before Pete Rose...
I would like to point out a well known fact that I don't think anyone else has mentioned. Gambling, while looked down upon during Joe's playing days, was some what common place and nobody had been banned because of it to my knowledge. With that being said, I don't think that the players thought that they would get banned. Joe probably knew what he did was wrong but did it because he thought he wouldn't get in trouble. Pete on the other hand knew full well what would happen because of what happened to the sox and he did it anyway. Both players have hall of fame numbers but I think Joe should be in and not Pete.
Yes what Pete Rose did was wrong and he lied about it for years before finally coming clean, but really the man who surpassed TY COBB for most base hits in a career without steroids deserves to be in the hall.
"If you build it, he will come!".......
"Go the distance"....
"Ease his pain"....
It's time we realize that it really wasn't Ray the whole time....it was Joe. He needs to be in the Hall along with a few others that have been HOF blackballed in some way or another....I'm looking at you Pete!
Get. A Life
@@gregwatson8219 ???
Forgive Joe....One Of Baseballs Greatest Hitters......Babe Ruth copied his swing!!!!
He hit .375 in the 1919 Series.
Shoeless Joe should be in the HOF....period.
I wish the current players would be outspoken on behalf of Joe Jackson.
1:53
Joe Jackson's best defense against being on the "fix" is how he performed :
-12 hits
-.375 batting average
- fielding percentage was perfect in 30 attempts.
Not really. Stats can't be read in a vacuum. He got six of his hits (half of his WS total) in the first five games. Not bad, but it's not setting the world on fire either. He also had no RBI during the first five games. Then, after the players were double-crossed by the gangsters the White Sox started playing to win. In the final three games of the series, Jackson collected six hits and six RBI. So, when the White Sox were playing to win he averaged two hits and two RBI per game whereas he averaged just a shade over one hit and no RBI per game when they were playing to lose. Coincidence? I don't think so.
@@gregb6469 Not necessarily, no. An out is an out so it doesn't really matter how you make it. Of course he wasn't trying to make an out every time. That would be too obvious. Reaching on an error wasn't his doing either, that was the fault of the fielder. Besides, Game One was a blowout (9-1 or 10-1 I think) so it didn't really matter what Jackson did, especially later in the game because it was already out of reach. He couldn't very well go up there and strikeout every time because again, that would just be way too obvious. Do really think it's just a coincidence that he didn't drive in a single run during the first half when they were trying to lose and then all of sudden started hitting and driving in runs after they had been double-crossed? I have trouble believing that.
@UCDoS1Q9qMuG-5BTTS1pBh6A Yes, he got hits with no one on base so it was of no consequence, i.e. he wasn't in a situation where a hit would drive in a run or two. The one time he struck out in that game was with a runner in scoring position when they could have really used a hit to drive in a run and get a rally started because it was getting late in the game and they were trailing 3-0.
@@gregb6469 No. Jackson couldn't get a hit anytime he felt like it. He was darn good though. He was in the top three hitters of the time for sure and one of the best of all time arguably. I'm just saying the timing of his hits, the type of hits, and his run production in the games that were being thrown versus the games that were not being thrown are awfully suspicious to me and I can't dismiss them in light of the other evidence as just a coincidence. Again, this also overlooks the damning facts that Jackson confessed.
@@gregb6469 Also... the discussion of statistics is rather circumstantial because it's only anecdotal evidence. It overlooks the fact that Jackson confessed-- both in writing and in his grand jury testimony. We know that he took money, he participated in and/or was present during discussions to fix games, he complained about being short-changed, and he took the $5,000 with the expectation that he was to participate in throwing the games. It seems to me he did. You and others may disagree. Fair enough. However, even if he didn't actively try to throw the games, he still took the money and agreed to do so thus making him a co-conspirator, he never actively did anything to renounce his participation in the conspiracy nor did he tell anyone in authority about the conspiracy. That alone makes him guilty. At least from a legal perspective.
As much as it pains me as a die hard tigers fan he may have been Ty Cobb's equal in everything except baserunning and ferocity. Babe Ruth is the greatest player of all time he was first the best pitcher of his era then the best hitter. Which also pains me as I hate Ruth much like Cobb did. As I've grown up and my playing career ended I realized how hard it is to pitch and hit at beyond elite levels. I was a pitcher so I always swing towards that side of the fence but what happened to Shoeless Joe is a travesty. We are missing the 2 of the 3 BEST HITTERS EVER from the hall of fame. There are murders, drug addicts, wife beaters, degenerate gamblers, every sort of shady character can be found in cooperstown. Rose and Jackson don't just belong there they must be in the hall of fame.
+Toni Paradise Ty Cobb respected Joe more then any other player.
Matthew Arenson I know i believe he said Joe was his equal when it came to hitting. I could be wrong i doubt Cobb would say somebody was a better hitter. I love old time baseball stories, i had a coach that played in the minors in the 50's and he had stories for days it was great.
Toni Paradise
He must of had some storys of the old days
Matthew Arenson Yeah if you are in to that it was very cool.
+Toni Paradise The problem I have is also that people like Kenesaw Mountain Landis is in. Baseball needed a change after the 1919 WS scandal, but I think Landis arguably did damage to the game, particularly in the area of integration. Like many of the commissioners, he was there to do the owners bidding, not what was best for baseball. Major league players were treated very badly by the owners back then.
Also, it sounds like you played a lot of baseball very seriously. How far did you get?
Joe Jackson got railroaded.
Should Pete Rose Go into the Hall Fame after going to sleep? Pete Red played in the Team that the 1919 White Sox's played that World Series against.
Jackson's story is a tragedy. Unless you can get him reinstated to Baseball, essentially exonerating him from participating in fixing the World Series, then you cannot elect him to the HOF. Doesn't matter if he would have been elected to the HOF based on how well he played the game. Participating in fixing the World Series earned his being banned from Baseball and thereby from the HOF. It's the same with Pete Rose.
Good point
Put him in.. I believe Comiskey was on the fix as well.
Yep Joe Jackson deserves the HOF
Joe Jackson should not only be in the Hall of Fame, he should have his own wing!! Its been 102 years since the banishment, he's served his sentence! If there is anything good that's come out of baseball, by the grace of God, please put Joe Jackson & Pete Rose in the Hall!!
Joe didn't try to throw the game hitting multiple homers isn't attempting to throw the series
He did not hit multiple Home Runs, He only hit one , and it was the only one hit in the entire 1919 World Series
Jimmy Hollywood Comiskey Park was notoriously difficult to hit home runs in anyway, fences were about 400' in left and right, farther in center.
+ImTheWaffleman Look at the box scores, for the 1919 series. See where Jackson got his hits, and where he didn't. May make you look at things differently. His HR came in Game 8, btw.
He also had no RBI through the first five games. Then, after the gangsters had double-crossed them on the money and the White Sox started playing to win, all of sudden Jackson drove in six runs in the final three games. Coincidence? I think not.
Jackson scored the only run for Chicago in game one, went 3 for 4 in game two, and 2 for 3 in game three. He was batting .400 after game four, highest of both teams - with 6 hits, halfway to his record-setting 12 hits that series. But Joe padded his stats in garbage time, huh? lol. And the Reds were a 96-win team that season.
Shoeless Joe Jackson, belongs in the HOF, he is already there in millions of fan's hearts. We owe it to him, to his family, and his legacy!
He is one of the greats an idol of mine when I was a young kid. Leaving him out of the HOF does not diminish his greatness anybody who knows the history of baseball knows how great he was!
Million fans hearts a little bit of egregious considering you can hardly find a million people who probably even know the guy
He should be. He did not participate in the scandal but since his teammates did he won't be inducted. His stats went up in the series. He didn't have an error and there was no proof that he accepted any money. A couple guys who were involved said we didn't involve him because he wouldn't do it.
Let him in the damn HoF! He should so be in the HoF. He is 3rd on the list in Batting Average. You need to let him in!
JOe took the money. No HOF.
its hard to say if he was innocent or guilty becuz part of throwing a game is to not make it obvious (for example the lakers vs kings game 6)
so part of the fix is they needed to win some games and not just lay down
so u cant look at jacksons performance in the games to judge whether he was in on it especially since the pitchers were in on it they could just give up runs right back that jackson helped score
in the end it was guilt by association kinda like the person who drives the getaway car gets the same punishment as the people who commit the crime
also even if the players really did change their mind and try to win the very fact they at first entertained the idea affects the outcome same goes for jackson even if he really did go to try to get out the series just by entertaining the thought at first changes the future
btw for reference some very credible sources have said that michael jordan was suspended by the nba for gambling but that lasted only 1 and 3/4 years and he was back
there are also rumors that magic johnson did the same and so his hiv was a cover for being suspended
u look at all the stuff that baseball players have done to taint the integrity of the game this is actually quite mild
I look at like this, people are still talking about Joe Jackson BECAUSE he is not in the Hall of Fame, while no one is talking about those he played with. If he was in the HOF we wouldn't be talking about him either. So, its certainly been a mixed blessing of sorts that he is not in the HOF.
Hearing about his batting record in that World Series proves he wasn't involved in the fix Do him justice put him in the Hall of Fame
He knew about fix!
Jackson knew what was going on. He let balls fall in the field because of it and they got a lot of triples. He will never be in.
Give me a vote. Jackson belongs.....
He'll always be a hall-of-famer in my book.⚾️⚾️⚾️
Glad your book ain't worth a shit because dude does not deserve to be even mentioned as a Hall of Fame candidate for the shit he did
'If you build it, he will come'. That's how i was introduced to this story..
Hollywood fella
If Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Tris Speaker and Babe Ruth are in the Baseball Hall of Fame Joe Jackson belongs in there also. These men mentioned at some point either bet on baseball or did something else that was shady. Shoeless Joe belongs in the HOF. Even Pete Rose the all time hit leader belongs. Also Jim Thorpe's Olympic medals need to be reinstated. He was stripped because it was later discovered he. played semi pro baseball while. an Olympian. So what. Thorpe was one of the greatest all around athletes of all time. Thorpe has also served his sentence long enough
In light of the fact that professional athletes are now allowed to participate in the Olympics, it is wrong to not return Thorpe's medals to him.
Without a doubt Joe Jackson belongs in HOF. He was the best baseball player that ever played the game.
That has nothing to do with why he isn't in.
His stats were too good in every game to part of a scandal. They lumped him in with the others just to simplify things. The other players all confirmed Joe was never at the meetings or took any money. Let him in. He has the preponderance of doubt.
Not at all. People focus on his BA as evidence that he was trying. How about looking at his defense? He played LF; 3 times there was a single hit to left with a man on second and all three times the man scored. How often do people score from second on a single to LF? I am too lazy right now to look it up, but it can't be a lot. And on a triple to left a man scored from first, that is fairly rare also. He had a monster game 8, 2 for 5 with 3 RBI and 2 runs scored. But they were down 5-0 when he hit his HR, and 10-1 when he hit the double. And that is half of his RBI for the series. Yes hit he .375 for the series but in the first 5 games he scored 1 run and had no RBI. Also in game 3, there were two men on and no outs, and for some reason, he was bunting and popped out to the first baseman. The White Sox were winning the game 2-0 at the time, why would your number 4/clean up hitter be bunting with 2 men on? Plus he signed a confession saying he participated. Only after the confessions were "lost" did he recant because he realized they had no proof. But he admitted in his grand jury testimony that he did receive $5K for cheating. You can read his testimony here: law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/shoelessjoe.pdf
My wife's family lives in Greenville. You can visit joes house. It's right behind the minor league stadium.
Exactly why won't MLB reinstate him?
Found NOT GUILTY!!!
Reinstate Joe Jackson. Put him in Cooperstown. And take a look at Buck Weaver while you're at it.
INNOCENT in a court of law should mean something.
I searched him up because im watching a movie called a feild of dreams and i was curious about him XD 😂
Good video.
.408 as a rookie.☆☆☆☆
The problem with the Baseball HOF is that those who are eligible are judged not just on what they do within the game, they are also judged on their private lives and that is wrong IMO.
Joe Jackson as the 3rd highest Major League batting average in history and was considered along with Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth to be among the best of not only his era but of all time. He deserves to be in the HOF. His ban was for life and that technically ended on 5 December 1951 when he died.
And can someone explain how Buck Weaver was banned for not reporting that there was a fix on when others like Ban Johnson and White Sox owner Charles Comiskey also knew about it, said nothing yet were not banned and have been members of the HOF since 1937 and 1939 respectively?
Played the outfield his entire career wearing ice skates. His twin bother, Skateless Stu Jackson, was cut from the Montreal Canadians...for obvious reasons.
I think offensively and defensively he didn't throw anything. His hitting stats were better in the 1919 series than in the 1917 series, he only hit .304 in 1917-an off series for him. I had heard, I think from Ken Burns series on baseball that on some balls to the outfield he seemed to slow up. However, I have not found that anywhere else. Statistically, no errors defensively and also 1 assist in game 6 which the Sox won 5-4 in 10. There is also this link which details his defensive play during the series: www.blackbetsy.com/1919WSInTheField.html It indicates that on the contrary, he played very hard defensively, which I believe is how he played normally.
I also tried to gauge his base running using the play by play descriptions from baseball reference of the World Series. He was thrown out twice by center fielder Edd Roush during the series. There is no shame in this as Roush had 222 assists during his career which puts him 37th all time among outfielders. Joe was thrown out once trying to steal and had no stolen bases during the series. Stealing bases wasn't a main part of his game though it was a part of his game. He had 202 steals over his career and was caught stealing 81 times for a little over 71%. His 202 steals ties him for 347th. Taking attempted steals/plate appearances, over his career the numbers are 281/5693 which is a little over 4.9%. In the World Series, it was 1/33 which is a little over 3.0%. I don't think this difference is significant and that there is any evidence he threw the World Series by base running mistakes.
He was banned for life. He's dead. Put him in the Hall of Fame.
He was banned forever. Not just his life
You might want to research that. He was given a lifetime ban. @@Grizzlied555
I know most of y’all don’t get it. Personally I want joe and rose in the hof. Butttt they have to be made a example of. Do not bet on games. No second chances no passing go.
MLB has to do whatever necessary thing maintain the integrity of the game.
I mean a rookie hits 408
Is Shoeless Joe Jackson Hall of Fame Worthy? ... As a rookie, he batted .408 - the highest average ever posted by a rookie in Major League history. His career batting average was .356 - the 3rd highest career average in Major League history. In the 1919 World Series his batting and fielding statistics led both teams. Is Shoeless Joe Jackson Hall of Fame Worthy? Come visit us at our Museum and we'll talk. I do, however, have another question ... Is it windy in Chicago? ... ... Mike Wallach, Managing Director of the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum in Greenville, SC.
In my opinion they took advantage of a simple good man he didn't participate the record shows that but the owners attorney played him into confessing something he didn't do I feel the club owner was involved too
He knew about it.He shoulda spoke up.
He belongs in. For the 10 seasons he played, he dominated. .408 his rookie year? Followed up by .395 and .373? If Mike Trout did that, he would already have a statue. Outside of his stats, yes he knew something was not right and from history, we know he did go to Comisky. But he played flawlessly in the field and at the plate. On top of that, the issue of him being completely illiterate would have gotten him off. He had no idea of what was going on. He was taken advantage of by the judicial system.
Actually his first season was 1908 and he hit .130. His first season that he started was 1911 his best year and that's when he hit .408. That was also Cobb's best year and he hit .420 with 248 Hits in 146 games! that's insane. Joe wasn't completely illiterate, he could read and write some.
A little over 100 at-bats in three years does not make you a seasoned vet. His first full season, he batted .408. While he may have learned to read or write in later years, in 1919, he was considered illiterate.