Why TRACING is GOOD for Artists (from a professional POV)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The ridiculous debate that "TRACING IS BAD" has been raging for years. Now, it's back and a lot of bloggers, RUclipsrs, and inexperienced "influencers" are telling people why they shouldn't trace. Well, as a professional artist - I'm here to finally say why you SHOULD. Find out how TRACING can help improve drawing skills and understanding the fundamentals of art. With none of the guilt!
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HEY THERE... just to clarify, this discussion is not about IMITATING or STEALING other people's art. It's about a poorly argued position that tracing cannot HELP artists develop skills. Anyone who traces someone else's art, for gain or to call it their own, risks being chastised by their peers. I hope this discussion sheds a new perspective on a rather bizarre subject. Cheers! :)
AMEN TO THAT ... X ...
@Carey Bridges LOL! That's hilariously true! "It's the devil to use white in your watercolor", "Tracing is evil", "digital art is fake", "Don't ever erase in your sketchbook".
Good clarification. :) I really enjoy your discussions. You have a very balanced perspective on things.
Some of the same people who say tracing is bad say using references is bad and that using digital media is the easy way to make art. Considering how digital media doesn't always work like traditional media is actually a bit of a learning curve. Some people are better at digital and some are better at traditional. It's all art. No one has the right to say otherwise. Tutorials are still references, making a sketch and cleaning it up on a new layer? Also tracing! Smh.
@Carey Bridges That's the reason I got into RUclips in the first place. I came on two years ago, looking for information about how to make an accordion sketchbook, and what I found was sort of the "wizard behind the curtain" metaphor... a ton of little to non-experienced casual art hobbyists posturing, lecturing, and feigning to be experts on subjects they weren't well-versed in, yet had/have massive followings. Fortunately, I was able to weed them out and now I follow people who are genuinely skilled and have important points of view. I added my own voice, and here we are. lol! I'm enjoying it, but when it becomes work, that's when I'll stop doing videos. Thanks so much for checking this out and for your supportive feedback! Cheers! :)
I couldn't draw eyes until I traced them a few times. I don't let random social media influencers have a hand or even a finger in MY drawing process. You do what's best for you.. period.
Great idea and I'm about to try it myself...check is in the mail 😊
@@Jason5000 good luck!
@@JessiTheBestiGaming thank you 😊
I had a similar experience, my wolves sucked and looked like a (stereotypical) 7 year old drawing and I decided to trace once and now they look way better and I have gotten way better at art
@@RaqiiCat see! Exactly. Happy that you figured it out, that's a great accomplishment
Tracing isn't bad as long as you don't claim someone else's work as your own
Hallo, also my point. Possibly who say that see other way, that every artist thy so stop form learn and drawing is one opponent less on market. But think most meaning way that mindless copy it, the way you talk in last video.
Absolutely - still, I see it all the time, with kids, teens, and adults, who think it's just okay to copy someone else's work, line for line and color for color, and then claim it's original. smh and roll my eyes. lol! :)
Yep. The original artist should get *some* credit.
exactly!
Yes I agree. As a new line drawing enthusiasts, looking to create a casual web comic, I simply have to practice other people's characters and line work.
But my published comics, I feel, should be 100 percent mine.
There are even "artists" who look down on you if you trace your OWN art. Like wtf. I can't do proper lineart when drawing digital so I have to draw it traditionally first.
lol! It's true. Those are the purists, for whom I really have no time for. It's a debate that can't be won with them, no matter what. Unfortunate, too.
Wtf
can we have an absolute rule in art? the rule should be there are no absolute rules in art.
I'm on board with that, but I don't know about all the purists out there! lol! Thank you, Jon Mahashintina! :)
Art has always been about breaking down barriers and rules stymie creativity
Thanks for stating this! I use to also trace other artist drawings from comic books, to learn how they did anatomy and backgrounds. Now I have my own style, and I don't trace others drawings anymore. There should not be a stigma on tracing it should be embraced and used as a teaching aide.
I totally agree, RICOFRITO. But, as others have voiced, some people think it's okay to trace the work of others and claim it as their own. Most people can see right through it, but sometimes, people make an entire career by lifting other people's work. Anyhow, thank you for checking this one out! Cheers! :)
Exactley try writing a song without learning other peoples songs same thing
"Artists had to worry about someone eating the bowl of fruit" LOL!
lol! Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to set up a still life and then go to the bathroom, only to have your brother come in and eat the banana you so delicately placed in the bowl??? Oh man! "Mom, Michael ate my banana!!!" LOL!! :)
@@MDCampbell lmao you’re hilarious
@@MDCampbell start using fake fruits, he will learn from his mistakes and will hesitate before picking one up next time.
YES! I love that you emphasized the somewhat ridiculous nature of this discussion. Well done! Your treatment of the many benefits is also a really refreshing angle that is rarely focused on, so kudos on that. I think you and I might have a mild disagreement over the term "tool" which can also be defined as a "means to an end". But that's hair splitting and beside the point. I totally accept the "technique" definition. It certainly is that too. I really appreciate your professional experience coming to bear on this in such an informative and accurate way. I've avoided talking about this myself due to the fact that I can't keep my eyes from rolling back into my head every time I see mention of the "tracing is cheating" mantra. Sheesh! Save me from know-it-all amateurs with little to no experiencial understanding.
You are completely correct in your assessment of "tool" vs. "technique." I toiled over that, because what I've always taught, long before this discussion, was that the technique of tracing can be a valuable tool in the skillset of an artist. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. For this discussion, it made sense to clarify that difference, and I wish, in hindsight, I had made that point I just wrote. I appreciate you calling that out, because I should have expounded upon it more. As for the discussion, itself, I think it started with the whole Holly Brown debacle a while back, where she was vehemently against tracing, until people on RUclips actually caught her and called her out. It started a firestorm against her and she went from having hundreds of thousands of subs to shutting down her whole channel and rebuilding from scratch. It was awful, but, if you're going to claim you created something on the internet - when you didn't - the fallout can be very rough, which was her case. And not for nothing, to me her foul mouthed, gross-out way of presenting herself was a unappealing, so there may have been a karma thing going on, too. Anyhow, thank you for checking in and sharing your insight on this one. As always, it means a lot coming from you. Cheers and be well, my friend! :)
The Mind of Watercolor I
Since you claimed to be a professional illustrator, hearing this opinion is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you! I'm sincere when I say that in the "professional" art world, there are no rules and anything goes. However we can render a drawing or piece of art to satisfy the job requirement is how it goes. It's not unusual to combine watercolor, gouache, colored pencil, and marker together in one piece, and _then_ adjust it digitally. Heck, if you need to rub it in the dirt to get a certain effect, then that's what we gotta do! lol! Cheers!
THANK YOU! There's absolutely nothing wrong with tracing as long as you use it to learn and not use it as a means to an end to claim other peoples work as your own.
Exactly, Steve the Dragon! The only college student I ever failed was a one that came in with a final interior drawing that they claimed as their own, telling me how long and hard they worked on it. Then, when I told them I had the same illustration in a book at home, they almost died. The student began crying and pleading for a passing grade, which I just couldn't give based on a semester of being a terrible student. lol! ;)
@@MDCampbell Reminds me of one time I turned in a 3d optimized model for an assignment and another student turned in the exact same model I turned in the next hour or so, and I know it was mine because I loaded them both up and all the vertices matched up exactly. They didn't even care to move any to try to hide it! I don't think the teacher caught it or cared. xD
The problem with tracing is when you just copy a picture and claim it as your own. That's plagiarism. Unless you modify it and add your style, you're just copying someone else's art. As a learning technique, tracing is great because it helps you understand perspective or anatomy.
I totally agree, Helsic en China. Sadly, I've had lots of art stolen this way in the past... professional work. A company will see a design that I created on the shelf in a store and replicate it, identically, except changing it from blue to green. Same fonts, same elements, same style. It's disheartening to walk into a Staples or a Best Buy and see a package that I designed right beside a knock-off product with my design. The saving grace is that they always mess it up, somehow, so it never looks as good as mine. It's a kind of payback when I see that! lol! Thank you for checking this one out! :)
@@MDCampbell I understand that feeling, it's a common thing, this is why we need to educate the young graphic designers and artists on this topic.
But then, as you said yourself, the problem is plagiarism, not tracing. It's far more than just the technique you used, rather it's the way you present the copied work to other people, and what you hope to accomplish by doing so. This should be a pretty basic concept but I've found that many people online use tracing as a shorthand for plagiarism. Why should a hobbyist who draws for fun not gain more confidence by tracing over a better artist's work? They're not going to sell it, in fact, no one is likely to see the drawing at all. More importantly, they're not even trying to be original, just have a nice picture and get some good practice in without worrying about scale, proportions, perspective, symmetry and all that other jazz that comes with just drawing from a reference. It's like saying you should be forbidden from playing stairway to heaven while learning guitar because it's unoriginal and you didn't even write it.
New "artist" here. I am 33 years old and I've always wanted to learn how to draw. But when I was younger I was obviously terrible at it like most kids. I felt self conscious about it so I just stopped. I've always loved drawing and always wished I was good at it because I had the notion that all great artists are just naturally gifted. I learned otherwise just a few years ago. And that some of my favorite artists wish they were better. So, these past few months I've been trying to teach myself. I struggle anytime I try to actually sketch because I get frustrated that I can't get the shading and proportions right. So, I usually give up because I'm too frustrated to have fun. Well, I just bought a small light pad and it's been a game changer. I'm able to teach myself why certain shadows go in spots and how to use soft lines to more so hint at things like shapes of noses. I'm actually having tons of fun now and felt less bad about tracing after I realized it's helping me gain confidence and knowledge and that my pictures are FAR from done just because I got my lines down. I still have to shade correctly and such before it even looks anything close to decent. Anyways, thought I'd put my perspective in on why I like tracing
And very well put, too, Michael Britt! Thank you for sharing your experience! I recently had to use an app called DaVinci Eye to get the angle of hand gesture correct. It was really frustrating me because I couldn't get this hand right in my drawing. So, I used the app, practiced tracing my own hand about a dozen times until I got it down. I brought that back to the piece I was working on and was able to draw it without any hinderance. I don't trace too often, but I will say that when I need to - it's well worth the time saved in frustration! Cheers! ~ Mark
I am glad someone said this! I distinctly remember when I was little I loved to draw dogs. But I would always just do the nose as a triangle...UNTIL I actually traced a picture of a dog and I actually was forced to make that mushroom shape with my own hand. I drew dogs much better after that. I think tracing is a valuable tool in learning and can be a valuable tool in professional art. I completely agree. However I do understand where other artists are coming from and I also think there are degrees of it. It feels bad when you see a post of another artist that has clearly traced your work EXACTLY and is calling it their own. People are afraid of getting their art stolen. That's a valid concern. And in some ways I can see why people call it cheating. I mean, as a consumer if I bought a painting that someone was calling an 'original piece of art' and later I found out it was Paint By Number, I would certainly feel cheated. Now, would I think that the artist was wrong to do a paint by number painting? NO of course not. It's fun and it's a learning experience, and by all means, show it to everybody. But if they were advertising it as their own idea...I feel like its a different story.
Ultimately I think the problem is: When does tracing become copyright infringement. Like, if your boss says "make me a mouse character" and you trace Micky Mouse and color him green....that's not gonna work.... But if you have traced Mickey over the years and learned good cartooning methods from it and create your own character because of what you've learned from tracing....again a COMPLETELY different story.
@Carey Bridges Being jealous of other artists is certainly a waste of time and effort. And being paranoid about your art being stolen is also not a good use of anyone's time. Just as an artist when you work super hard on a piece and it's twin pops up somewhere else with someone elses name...you can't help but feel a little bad.
I can only agree with all of your points on this, Chilly Studios! Overall, your story about drawing a dog's nose is exactly what I wanted this video to be about... that's a brilliant example of what I was talking about. Thank you so much for all your thoughts on this subject and taking the time to expand on the discussion. I'm sincerely grateful for your time! Thank you!
@@MDCampbell I used to trace a lot when I was little and have just recently discovered using a light box to transfer a drawing onto better paper. My roomate *not an artist* would always tell me that was cheating. But I'm like...."I drew it already....It's still my drawing..."
You are welcome. I don't always comment, but I really did have to say something about this one. It's such a MASSIVE controversy....and it really doesn't need to be.
I’m definitely not some crazy good artist, but tracing has absolutely got me into drawing and has taught me about shading and other things. I’m glad I gave it a try
That is so awesome, Emily Love! Thank you for sharing!!
I feel as long as you're acknowledging the fact that you traced (to yourself at least) and aren't claiming someone else's work as your own it's fine. As someone who works with watercolours I often transfer/"trace" my work after cleaning up linework in a program so I don't have a messy work surface. I feel the majority of people associate tracing with taking a professional image, tracing it entirely, and telling everyone it was your "original" idea when in fact it was someone else's. Hence the agressive perspective of the purists. If you trace someone else's work at home and are really just doing it for yourself and improvement it really isn't harming anyone and you shouldn't be witch hunted for it.
I generally take my own references (be it photographs or 3d programs) and trace over them, fix and adjust as needed. If people are that stressed over tracing then just...make your own references? I honestly see no harm as long one gives credits to the original, being transparent, and/or use your own references. 3d programs are fine to use too, imo-not perfect but you can fix and tweak accordingly to your needs too.
But damn, even people get all ‘holier than you’ over people tracing over their own (sketchy/thumbnail) works? Some people really need to chillax, art is all about adaptivity.
I love the "witch hunted" analogy! lol! So true, and yeah, if you're just tracing other people's efforts and calling it your own, that's not good because people will see it. Like, if we hold up our traced drawing to our mom and say, "look what I drew," she'll say, "That's really good, dear... did you _really_ draw that yourself?" and it's at that point where we can either lie and say, "Yes!" which she'll know is untrue, or we can say, "No, I traced it - but see how I filled it in with this crosshatching and shading and stuff... that's all mine!" then our mom will hug us, tell us how good we are, and hopefully bake us some cookies. Man, do I love cookies! lol! But, silliness aside, you make excellent points and I think you're right about the majority of people. This video came from reading blogs and hearing others talk about the learning aspect that tracing prevents us from developing. I didn't agree with that. Anyhow, thank you, BaronHaru, for checking this one out and leaving your thoughtful feedback. :)
@@milktea543 In the 1980s, I had a Polaroid camera and took reference photos of everything. It was great because the images were immediate and I built photo albums of references. I lost many of them, but still have a few somewhere. Now, with digital, I have libraries and albums on my computers just for reference photos. I use them when I need to, especially food, and they serve to allow me to apply my own style to an inanimate subject, the only credit being to myself. And yes, I totally agree with the chillax attitude toward art. "Too many people preaching practices," as Paul McCartney sang. Thanks for checking this one out and sharing your insight and feedback! :)
M.D. Campbell
Finally, someone had to say it. Tracing isn't always wrong, this is how beginning artists learn basic anatomy
Most definitely agree. I once taught a young student how to draw horses through tracing. It was epic and a game changer for her artwork. She learned from the tracings, and a couple of years later, ended up doing a massive mural of Pegasus, which she did freehand. Thank you for checking this out and your feedback! It means a lot! :)
@@MDCampbell For sure, and thank you for the reply, a very meaningful response indeed :)
Isn't it funny how the art community encourages everyone to be themselves and be their best selves *and* wants everyone to improve in their own way, yet they don't encourage tracing because "It's bad"?
Great video by the way, i hope people including some artists will learn from this!
Coming from a teenage newbie artist myself.
It's funny because it's true. The silliness of rules like this make me fall over backwards. In the 80s, I used to use white gouache to "correct" mistakes and as a way to add highlights. Then, it became "bad" and you had to let the paper come through for your highlights. Now, every artist I see uses white gel pens to "correct" mistakes and add highlights. I can't figure it out! LOL!! Cheers, 丂ㄒ卂尺尺ㄚ!
This has bothered me since I was a child. Thank you.
Thanks, TheChickenRiceBowl. I spent my entire life never hearing any criticism about tracing until the past couple of years on the internet. It really blew my mind that people got that worked up. But, then I started to appreciate the whole "stealing" perspective, and understood that position better. But then, when people complained that you can't learn from tracing and it's not for amateurs, only people who draw _really, really_ well... that's when it got under my skin.
wow, I've finished fine arts last year and barely drew anything in the past year. This video really inspires me to make something again. thank you!
That's awesome, wolfchan! I'm happy you were able to take something away from this one! Best regards to you! :)
Personally, I've been tracing as a reference and then trying to replicate it onto my own art without stealing it. It helped me go from mediocre art to full on semi realism in *three. days.* tracing, in my opinion, isn't bad as long as you try to draw your own art after getting anatomy practice instead of just up and stealing it. that's what i'm doing.
I agree and it's great to hear it's been positive for you, Hailey E. While I rarely trace, there are always times when it's a necessary tool to apply - and not for nothing, tracing takes practice and skill, too. It's not like people just produce awesome art by tracing... there is such a thing as badly traced art, too! lol! Cheers!
I would have given up in the beginning stages of watercoloring if I didn’t start incorporating tracing into the process.
Now I can sketch mostly on my own from what I’ve learned through tracing. Tracing has been invaluable to be.
That's really amazing, B W. I'm so glad you didn't give up. Sometimes, we just need to find that one thing to change our perspective and give us a renewed sense of purpose with it, whether it's gardening, cooking, or creating art. Thank you for watching, but also for your thoughts on this. :)
i agree, so let’s put it to the test! for 30 days im going to trace ICS lines, circles and eclipses. Then boxes and cylinders in various angles rotated in perspective. Finally, I will be tracing figures, still lifes, and organic subjects to prove if this is actually beneficial to aspiring artists or not. I will take note of the progress of four things: my line confidence, hand stability, observation and overall freehand drawing ability! Will keep the comment thread updated!
its also said by old time artists like my Father . he was a trained artist who worked in every medium going, he always told me tracing was cheating and to never do it. well I did anyways without his knowledge ( good old window trick or big lampshade lol ) and it actually improved my drawing skills 100% because after a while I did not need to trace anymore . i developed a memory of sorts to get the shape and perspective correct without having to trace anymore. many years later my son took an art class ( his work is amazing) and that class encouraged tracing as a tool. after he took that class his work tripled .
Glad to hear you had good success with this, Puffy Jo, and that your son was taught there's a benefit to tracing, too! Thank you for sharing your feedback with me. So cool! :)
Well said sir! Tracing absolutely has made me a better artist- from my graphite pencil to my dip pen! When I get a commission to paint someones pet, I will often print out their portrait and trace it serveral times before I draw it myself on a larger scale. Sometimes when the animal is really hairy/complicated I will have a special large print 18x24 inch made at my local printer and lightly trace the outline of the animal so I don't miss any of those little details, as you said.
Omg, yes! This is where I find the technique to be especially useful, xxOwLEyeSxx! Because, let's say you trace the basic form of a cat or a dog... it's then up to us, as the artist, to execute the final work around it - the colors, the thickness of the brush strokes, the style, etc. - to make it our own. Whether the style of Van Gogh or with a touch of Dali, it's what we do _after_ that initial reference trace that counts. Really glad you mentioned this. Thank you for that, but also for spending your time watching and leaving your thoughts. I really appreciate it! Have a great weekend! :)
I started tracing as a kid too and I had the exact same epiphany! It also helped me realize that things weren’t always where I thought they were! (Proportions and stuff).
Social media has way too much influence and control on so many subjects and is very damaging to a lazy society that would rather be told what’s what, instead of doing the work to make their own decisions! Or to even consider they could be wrong!
I can’t even remember how many times I have told a student that you have to develop eye hand coordination and every time you use a pencil this is practice and necessary! I also have used many different “tracing” methods to save time, when you have to earn a living you cut ANY corners you can! Time is money and you have to maximize your efforts! Wonderful video and I wanted to thank you for this video.
Thank you so much, mjpete27! You make great points and like you said, to save time and money, it's all about getting to the final. I appreciate your time watching and thankful for you kind feedback! Cheers! :)
PEW I came from a live and that youtuber Said tracing was bad I was heart broken because the process I have made till now is thx to tracing I am soo happy that I watched this video I am relieved! I will sub
Yes, that's just not right, BLOXY unicorn. I don't like when "artists" say that a way to enhance creative expression is "bad." It's like saying that using an eraser is bad. lol! If tracing helps to improve our skills, why _wouldn't_ you recommend it? Crazy. Thanks for checking this one out! ~ Mark
Hi! Great video :) You hit the nail on the head for most everything I would defend in regards to tracing. I wanted to mention that also, as new artists I see students draw one image or element of what could *potentially* be a MUCH richer piece; but they are so scared to erase or change up that one element, they just leave it as it is. Tracing can open up the freedom to take that same image and move it around on the paper - feel the options. open up the ideas. just like you did with the jack-o-lantern - you had an image you liked. Then you used and re-used it how you truly wanted to. I encourage kids to work like that; because at the end of the day, if they are proud of the time and effort they put into the work, THAT is the part that matters.
Hi Andria Police! You make such a great point about that much richer piece. That fear of changing an element - by eraser or redrawing - is something that holds a lot of us back, including myself sometimes, too. And again, to your point, if we can walk away from that time we put in feeling it was worthwhile... well, I think you hit the nail on the head, as well! Thank you so much for continuing the discussion. Great points and I appreciate your time! Stay well! :)
That thing about tracing as a tool and a technique really gives out a new perspective (with me still learning on perpspective and anatomy in extreme angles) with the parallel on playing guitar by ear.
To add on this, stenciling is a kind of tracing, yet in my experience, no one ever bats an eye on that. Besides whoever has the time to paint every t-shirt by hand?
It goes without saying that nothing is new under the sun.
Thank you, Alex Yorim! And yes, I really like that you mentioned stenciling, as it would definitely be on that list, as well. As for nothing new under the sun, I don't know... I remember when I got my first handheld video game in 1978. There was nothing like it ever before. Then, a few years ago, we got my mom a Rumba vacuum cleaner... again, never seen anything like it before. I'm convinced that if we just look inward toward what we really need, instead of outward to what we really want, then the light of the sun is hidden from revealing new things to us that only our spirit and our imagination can invent. Just my 2¢. :)
I discovered this video because I was told by my niece that my brother-in law will never see me as an artist because I trace. I have so much respect for this man. He was a sign writer and an oil painter all his life. What he doesn’t know about mixing colour and painting isn’t worth knowing. Just feeling the burn because I was sending him all of my pictures for him to critique and he feels that way about me! So sad about it..
I traced my friends dog from a photograph I’d taken while I was visiting them. I asked my sister not to tell him but it was the first words out of her mouth the following morning.. I also traced a picture of my late brother from a photograph I’d taken in the days after he died.. Drawing him helped me with my grief..
That's really inspiring that you were able to find some comfort in the loss of your brother through creating art in a way that makes you comfortable, confident, and happy. There are a lot of seasoned artists out there who hold to a puritanical position regarding how artwork should be created. But, those people, no matter how much we respect them, are not the final word in creative experience. I've said it to students, co-workers, and even my own kids - "it's _your_ journey, so you get to make the rules." I've seen, firsthand, how that kind positive reinforcement boost a person's creative spirit, whereas, telling someone they are doing it the wrong way simply crushes it. Thank you for sharing, Robyn White, and I'm sorry for the loss of your brother and that you had to experience the negative critique of someone you hold in high regard. ~ Mark
Thank you For making this video I'm 15 and I am learning how to draw and I would trace a whole lot and it made me feel like a bad person because I was tracing this I wanted to get good at a certain style. this really encouraged me to continue to draw and learn the style that I like thank you for the video ❤🎉
Godgirl, I am thrilled that you found the video and it provided some validation that you are _not_ bad for tracing and that, to the contrary, you are especially _good_ for feeding your creative spirit in any way that helps you learn, grow, and love to be the artist you are! Best wishes and cheers to you! ~ Mark
Sincere thanks for this! I do trace, a lot, and some people are very sassy about it. I'm moderate quality watercolorist, and terrible drawer. Not a great combo. I'm working on it..
So I've been tracing things often. Mostly I'll print simple images - a few rocks, a fish, etc. And try to draw linework onto the image, repeatedly, to get the muscle memory/simplified image, and determine which lines are "necessary" and which are not. I don't need to do this for everything, but a lot of traces are of pictures I took, because I needed to better grasp how something looked from a given angle.
Watching people draw things is super helpful but not everyone will draw exactly what I had in mind. If I couldn't trace or line draw onto pictures of eight million jagged rocks, I may not have ever been able to draw jagged rocks...
This has also taught me the value of a reference photo of something similar to a subject, when you cannot get a photo of exactly what you're drawing to reference. And similar basics. Something most people may learn in class but I never went to art school, I just like mucking about with paint.
Except now I can muck about, and paint my moderately-well drawn jagged rocks. So, yes, it can help(:
I'm really happy you found this video to be helpful, dbdsar112358. Thank you for taking the time to watch and to share your thoughts and experience. I understand completely, especially regarding jagged rocks! I think that's what tracing helped me with the most - drawing backgrounds and organic things like trees, rocks, and even buildings. I hope you're enjoying your creative journey and it doesn't matter what level or if you think it's moderately good or not, as long as it's fun and gives you joy, then that's what truly counts! Cheers! ~ Mark
@@MDCampbell Thank you! Baby steps.... we'll get there. Thankfully, the art community on RUclips overall is super wonderful, and everyone helping each other out, so it is actually a very joyful process! (:
@@dbdsar112358 I agree and can attest that, overall, the art community is a fantastic gathering of likeminded people, whether seasoned artists, newcomers, or just folks who enjoy watching it all. Of course, there's a few out there who feign to be something they are not, so I try to follow those I've come to know and trust, loyally, and support new artists, as well. Stay well and thank you, again! ~ Mark
It really all depends on what you do AFTER the actual tracing is completed. Any 10-year old child with a pencil, tracing paper and a moderately steady hand can trace.
Absolutely the truth. Once that traced outline is complete, it becomes all about how the treatment is applied. Andy Warhol is the prime example of that, using other people's photographs and just applying his signature style to them. Ingenious, while also being slightly lecherous in using other people's work in his own.
Thank you for this, I am not great at drawing so use tracing to create the line drawing I then add my own shading and colors. The only part of the tracing that is original is the basic line drawing. If I did not trace I would not color and if I did not color my life would be missing something intimate and enjoyable, so pooo to those who say I cheat in my heart I know that I create and that's what matters. So once again thank you so much.... Kevin.
Thank you for the reply on this one and I'm happy to hear that it adds a unique experience to your creative outlet. I really love your comment about having something intimate and enjoyable, because honestly, that's what it's ALL about. Every professional out there will tell you to use whatever resource works to get to the end result (which is either completing the project or just having fun!), and if someone says it's wrong or criticizes it, well, again I agree - poo poo on them for not being open minded to having fun! lol! Cheers and thank you! ~ Mark
I am a teenage realism artist, and I sucked at proportions. Like, I could draw everything separately to a tea, but after tracing a few times, i got the hang of it.
though i do not agree with people tracing actual artwork and claiming it as their own, but using it to practice should be fine. you're no less of an artist for doing this, because in the end, the end results is what matters 🤷🏽♀️
I completely agree, namjooncansteponmeandiwouldthankhim! Education and learning ways to create are always a benefit to our work. Thank you for checking this out and sharing your feedback! I appreciate that! Stay well! ~ Mark
Thank you I’ve been suffering from art burnout for 7 years and tracing models and furniture is helping me ease back into art
I love that! Thank you for sharing your experience! I hope you can find a creative path that makes you happy, Mariana Padilla! :)
great video! I trace to learn/study character anatomy, design, style and such. and it helped me to figure out my own style too!
it's pretty much like redrawing it then knowing how to simplify it in certain poses, perspectives and styles.
Thank you for this, my guilt is gone.
Yes! We should make a product called GuiltAway™ and make a million bucks off it! LOL!! Thank you, Christina Elliott! :)
Thanx so much for this video. Your reasoned approach was an encouragement. I often use these cool new ultra thin light pads to transfer my sketches to the final drawing paper. Also, I'll enlarge a photo & just trace the outline to get the proportions just right so I can spend more time on the detail of the drawing. Blessings👍
It's always a benefit to hear from someone who actually uses the tools and techniques of a discussion, just for the pure insight and experience behind it. Thank you for sharing and taking your time to check this video out, Diane. Have a great day!
Thank you Mark for a brilliant video. I’m a 73 year old female who has never drawn before. 3 or 4 years, or possibly more can’t remember, I started sketching, watercolour, coloured pencils then I bought myself the iPad Pro and pencil and I’m now enjoying digital art as well. I must say I’m no expert, it’s better then sitting all day watching TV🎨👵🏻
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback, Miros Gooner, and congratulations on your creative adventures! When I was young, I was more concerned about breaking the rules than following them. Now, as an older artist, I see the path I've followed and wonder why others got so hung up on the rules, for so many years? Sure, it's important in art to recognize and even understand the tried and true basics and fundamentals, but to just play and explore, I don't see a need for such haughty concerns. Enjoy that iPad Pro... I love mine, though I do wish I used it more than I do. Thank you for checking this out! :)
Thank you! This video inspired me to start drawing again. You helped me realize that tracing is an important tool to help us learn how to draw, especially for beginners. This video helped me get the ball rolling again. 🙏✌️
Thank you for the kind feedback and I hope that ball keeps rolling for a long time to come! Cheers! Mark
I like how you've clearly articulated points we all have in the back of our minds when we hear this silliness about tracing being 'bad'. The pumpkins turned out wildly cute, by the way.
Thank you, gnostie, and that's a good point about what we think of in the back of our minds. It's only when we encounter that silliness that it comes to the forefront and usually, for me, out of my mouth in my reply. lol!! Cheers!
I am still against tracing, for me it is boring. I have tried it, but understanding shapes and prospective is more important and it is fun. I don't care what other people do, as long as it works for them. If someone can't see the details maybe they just not ready to see them, it is OK.
Exactly. For you its a personal, developmental guideline. I feel the same for my personal approach to art. But tracing can actually aid in seeing details, especially for beginners. The point is its NOT cheating.
I'm a proponent of learning and advancing our skills, and whatever it takes to do that, I'm all for it. I'm not for someone just taking someone else's work and calling their own, that to me is unforgivable. Artist Richard Price would take random people's Instagram photos and then create a fake Instagram frame around the photo with fake comments, tags, and emojis and then sell them for upwards of $60,000 - $100,000 each. It was an outrage and he was sued by several photographers for copyright violation and improper use of intellectual property. Most, I believe, settled out of court. But, yes, as The Mind of Watercolor mentioned, it's a personal choice for each artist which tools and/or techniques to use, but I still say that tracing, even when used nefariously for gain, is still not cheating.
@@MDCampbell Tracing as form of exercise is extremely boring, but it works I just need to find patience for it.
I totally agree with your point of view on tracing I am going to use whatever method is necessary to achieve my goal of the final piece! Thank you for making this video it has been needed for a long time!
Thank you, TLS Art Studio. I'm happy you found this a positive message. Thanks for watching and your kind feedback! :)
@@MDCampbell you are welcome I truly have been enjoying your videos for some time now!
I think tracing is completely ok as long as your not tracing someone else’s art and claiming it as your own. That’s plagiarism, and I think that is wrong, however I have a very strong opinion that tracing is perfectly fine. Then again this is all my own opinion, but thank you for saying this
Yup. Tell that to the millions of other comic book artists who trace! XD
Excellent points sir! tracing is an excellent tool.. and even if you let two person trace something, you will still get DIFFERENT results! because we will all have different perceptions.
there are still a lot of techniques to consider aside from tracing itself.. as someone who draws freehand, I can say there are advantages in tracing especially when it comes to the accuracy of shapes and positions of what you’re drawing.. it is a great tool and it can actually help you improve your craft.... Practically speaking, I would recommend for someone to trace a photo of actual people, things and evironment rather than tracing a fix artwork :)
So true, Lovenote. In fact, a former student of mine recently got an iPad and has been tracing photographs in Procreate to learn how to use the software and get used to drawing digitally. I would recommend that to any young artist new to drawing on an iPad. You have to learn to crawl before you can run, right? lol! Cheers and thank you for your thoughtful reply! :)
Thanks so much Mark!!! Perfect video for me at this time. I've actually done a bit of tracing, but not in a while. I took the advice of another artist to trace a leaf. I actually laid it on my copier/printer and made a copy of it and then used that as the basis for my drawing. We've got beautiful oak leaves here in California in the Fall and I really wanted to capture the brown and orange and green colors. I did transfer it to some good colored pencil paper and it turned out wonderful. This was a great conversation about the use of tracing and I will try to use it more now in order to learn more about the object I want to draw. Thanks again! I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, Melena Schneider! Just from your description, I can get a very real sense of those leaves. We get some amazing foliage in New England, as well. I'm happy you enjoyed this discussion and hope there will be a takeaway for you in the long run. Stay well and again, thank you! :)
If I don’t trace, I’ll never draw and I’ll never paint with watercolors which is what I enjoy doing indeed. Well, I have just started using watercolors after longing to do so for a while because I couldn’t draw, and tracing I didn’t even consider. Hence, watercolor painting wasn’t for me. I started to hear from artists that tracing opens possibilities to experiment with whatever medium is appealing to you. As you say, I’m more interested in taking a drawing class now than I was before I started tracing for I know I can always combine the two and get a good result. I hope to trace my own drawings someday :) thanks for the valuable information
Excellent feedback and I'm so grateful you took the time to share your thoughts, Mr. S. Thank you for that. I'm to the point now where I often have to trace my own creations, for a variety of reasons. And I know plenty of digital artists who trace their reference images in Procreate or Photoshop, and pretend like it never happened! lol! It's an important tool for both art and design. To suggest it's "bad," well, that's just holding people back. Thank you again! ~ Mark
I wish to hear from you if possible. Most of my work are done by starting with tracing outlines. Thank you for this very informative and helpful vlogg! I just came across some traditional artist who insist that tracing is cheating. I felt bad and somewhat felt discouraged and eventually stopped watching his video. Then your video came next in the feed. Gladly I went to check this out! I got motivated and started to trace one of my commissioned artwork as of this writing!
Thank you again for being positive and encouraging. More power to your channel and passion in art! God bless you!
Hi Mark, thanks for joining in on the discussion. You're right, that tracing is a tool that can be used to improve or get work done faster. My younger self used tracing a lot too to improve - mostly to learn how to draw horses, because they are so much more complicated than humans.
I also enjoyed the pumpkin drawing a lot, you're a master of hatching! It's an art form for itself. :)
Thank you, so much LanaGoesArt! I appreciate your insight and can attest - horses are tough! As a young teacher, I had a student who asked me to help her draw horses. Over-confident, I said, "sure, let's drawing some horses!" They were awful, as I was drawing from memory, not from a source. The next day, I brought in a book on horses and we traced them together, to understand shapes of the head, the legs, etc. The student was thrilled and she kept drawing horses, on her own, without tracing. It was really cool! I hope all is well on your end! Cheers! :)
As a professional I have unfortunately had this discussion far more times than necessary, and on the internet has always ended in flame wars with children ( immature wannabes and pretenders and yes purists)and unfortunately I’ve seen it damage people’s reputations and even end RUclips channels. Thank you for expressing this in words that can now be used to refer people to and hopefully shut down and end this stupid argument. Thanks for posting this!
So true! I felt pretty embarrassed when I suggested that a classmate (who was struggling with the grid system) should use a projector to enlarge their pre-painting sketch onto canvas and the painting instructor chimed in to inform me that my method was "cheating".
That word. _Cheating._ Even if you paid someone to create your art for you, it's still not "cheating." Just ask Andy Warhol about that. lol! Sorry that happened to you, madnesslives. Unfortunately, I think I might know that instructor. lol! Thanks for checking this one out. Stay well! :)
So if we're not an artist it's not hurting anyone to trace a picture I personally took. Or a child's coloring page free to print off. As long as I don't use copywritten material : I color or paint between the lines hopefully. Although I still give credit to who drew it or painted it. Give us novice artist who do art as a hobby a Break . 🤣🐻🤗 Bear HUGS ❣️
I've actually even seen people declare the grid system cheating...
perhaps they meant it would be 'unfair' to the other students that don't have projectors. ive seen this technique used in acrylic painting videos on youtube though.
another method would be when you cover a page with charcoal, hold it against a canvas and draw on the opposite side. what you draw gets transfered to the canvas via the charcoal. seen it done plenty of times.
Wonderful points! I started out my adventure with a brush doing rosemaling and then other kinds of decorative painting. We traced, over and over and over again, followed complete detailed instructions on what colors to use and just how to do it. We made duplicates of a lot of different teachers' books and I was happy. But a decade of doing this, and, I was bored with all of that copying - I wanted to do my own thing. I always used a sketchbook, some times more than others, referring back to my childhood Jon Gnagy books for how it could look. Busy with my family, I quit drawing and painting for quite a while until I decided I really wanted to learn watercolor and took classes at the community college's adult education classes. It was only then that I realized how much all of that tracing had taught me to draw. My lines had become much more confident and I became comfortable showing others what I had done. Those watercolor classes were perfect for me, in that we did not paint from a photo but were instructed to bring in our own still life every week. I learned to see what I couldn't see in a photo. Taking plein air classes sealed my doom. Painting from life was my love. Fast forward some years where injuries and illness took some of my abilities and skills and I wanted to get a better understanding of perspective. Out came printed sketches from online classes and my little light pad and I was able to get the hang of just how that worked and before long I could skip traced lines and just draw freehand. The next great thing was getting confident with ink only because of Inktober several years ago, but that's another story. Tracing is what got me here.
It's inspiring to hear how you were able to overcome some of those challenges from injuries and illness. It's a common theme among many people I meet, nowadays, and I'm finding more and more that art and the process of being creative, has given people so much relief, comfort, and hope to face those hurdles. Thank you for watching, Kathleen Roush, and I'm grateful for your very thoughtful feedback! :)
@@MDCampbell 👍
What a heartwarming story, Katleen.
I'm new to the field of digital art and sometime to practice i use Tracing. After i came across the rumors going on that it's totally a bad thing i was worried i might be doing art the wrong way, thanks to you for this video I'm much relieved now. ❤️
That's just great to hear, Ranit Karmakar! Thank you for letting me know your experience and best of luck in your digital journey!
I agree. I encouraged my students to take whatever measures they needed to succeed in their endeavors. Tracing was such a popular activity, and it never resulted in failure or stealing, and always boosted the shaky confidence. Thanks for putting this out there.
Thank you, Randi Command! I love that, "it never resulted in failure..." Perfect and so true! In many ways, students today have so many advantages, yet there's also so many drawbacks. The worst is having inexperienced people putting out information that can curb growth. I wasn't going to put this out there, but after recent blogs and videos, I finally said, "no, this isn't right." Again though, it's just an opinion from an old school RUclips guy. lol! ;)
Thank you! I've seen artists I admire say that you can always tell when something is traced and that tracing is pretty much a war crime no matter what. Though that's the opposite of what I learned from art teachers. The whole thing feels like gatekeeping which is disappointing. It's pretty dismissive of colorists especially. I've used tracing as a tool to help me relearn due to disability. My fine motor skills are improving as much as they can, but it also helps with my general frustration. Some days I just cannot draw between hands, pain, and brain things, it's nice to just trace something out and then paint it. I know other people with similar issues who have been berated for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thank you for existing!
Well, thank you for existing as well, and sharing your valuable insight through the challenges you've obviously overcome and continue to hurdle. As someone with my own way of dealing with things, I can appreciate where you're coming from, J P. But, I think you really wrapped up this conversation tightly with the word "gatekeeping," which is exactly the word I was looking for but couldn't tap onto. You're absolutely right and that's exactly how it feels, especially with younger bloggers and RUclipsrs who preach practices that they, themselves, have no mastered. Crazy. Again, thank you for existing, too, and especially for your time watching and kind words. I'm grateful! :)
Great video that lays out all the arguments in a logic sequence. Pity you couldn't teach this way of critical thinking to others. Scrolling through the comments I noticed that many KNOWALLS who have never taken the time or effort to create a RUclips video, still felt compelled to weigh in as if they were adding value by saying the OBVIOUS that goes without saying (but of course, these dummies jump up on their soapbox and mouth off anyway) and that is, "if you trace, don't pass it off as your own work". Doh! SMH
It also annoys me that there are cowardly thumbs-down people who seem not to agree, yet, refuse to come forward and put forward a reasoned argument. You all need to grow up.
I do tracing if I cant fully free draw what I want to express on my video but I add new elements to it. My work is combination of both my own drawing and tracing.
Thanks for this great discussion! I’ve only really started drawing and watercolor four years ago, after retiring, and it’s very frustrating to me that I can’t really draw. After seeing a review of the Etchr Mirror, I’ve been using it with my photos of flowers and I finally feel a little success when I get the shapes right. There is just so much to learn when one begins to learn art, that any tool that helps one to keep practicing is valuable. Thanks for reinforcing my thought that I am learning how to draw by first tracing the shape. I always enjoy the topics you discuss.
Thank you so much, Ann Johnston, for all your support of the work I do here. And I'm happy to hear how you're progressing with things like Etchr Mirror, because every little bit that gets us motivated is a big win in life. And yes, there's so much to learn, I agree. I just try to focus on what I'm learning at the moment and try to take it as far as I can. Take care and again, thank you!
If you think about it... When we are young in kindergarten, we learn the alphabet and numbers by tracing, which eventually leads to doing it freehand. For me learning to draw properly, it's the same. I started by tracing eyes a few times and then was able to do realistic eyes by freehand. I use face templates, grids, and I'm learning the anatomy of the human body, etc... Eventually I'll be able to do it after loads of practice. Tracing, grids, etc, are great tools. Obviously if someone is tracing someone else's work and reselling it, that is copyright infringement.
Very well said. Thank you for your thoughts and contributing to this interesting debate! Cheers!
If you trace carefully, paying attention to the structure of your source, to how the lines 'flow' and fit together, you definitely learn. Heck, you learn even if you think the human body fits together like an action figure: you learn you were wrong.
That's a great point, Juliet Fischer! To learn from learning you were wrong. I am definitely going to put that in my book of quotes! Thanks for checking this one out! :)
Once again I am so grateful to you and your videos. I am an illustrator myself and I often get discouraged when I read what other artists write or say about tracing. For example some claim that you MUST be able to construct the pose of a figure from scratch and that it's cheating and not okay to use anything to help you with that. However I disagree, especially when it comes to complicated poses with a lot of perspective and foreshortening - I'd rather use references, than getting everything wrong. Sometimes I use DAZ to create digital renderings of figures first to help me out and if the poses are really tricky, I will trace things like the arms or sometimes the entire body for my preliminary sketches. To me creating a rendering as reference is the same as though I invited a model and told them to sit for hours on end while I paint them. But due to what people claim, I tend to doubt myself and my art, at times it even gets so bad that I tell myself I'm not a "real" artist because I rely on those references like 'crutches'. But you're so right - it's not a 'crime' to use references and to trace, especially what you said about muscle memory is very true. I notice that when I draw portraits for example I don't even need any references anymore because I trained myself to get the proportions right.
Long story short, I just wanted to thank you ♥ I'm glad I subscribed to your channel yesterday :)
(And I am also grateful you replied to my other comments
Yasao Kenshi, let me just say that I am the one who is grateful - for your time watching and thoughtful comments. When I began doing videos, I never imagined anyone watching. But, I see the comments and realize that a lot of other artists appreciate rich discussions about art and being creative, without all the silliness that other RUclips video makers present. My journey is to bring these kinds of discussions to the table to encourage other artists to look past boundaries, explore new ways of expressing themselves, and to use whatever resources are available. And that goes for tracing. Your perspective and experience is exactly the point and I applaud you for looking at your artwork with an open, honest heart. Sometimes, it's difficult to critique our own work, yet it's so important to do so to be able to grow. And for me, tracing is just part of that growth... but it's far from all of it. Cheers and thank you so much! ~ Mark
so i have seen this debate everywhere and after watching your video i decided to take a class about the history of art. I asked the professor about tracing. He then pulled out drawing from the Renaissance era and he told me what if i tell you these were all traced? I said what?! he said back then tracing was done in the day and age. The artist would trace a sketch of a person to get idea of important features face ect and then color it in later. I asked if that was technically cheating. He said unless your copying a work word for word there is no cheating. He then told me a lot of artists added their own background or their own way of making it their own. i love your video on this :D
Wow, that's a terrific story, Marigold14! Thank you for sharing that insight, and for your time taken in replying, as well! I'm happy you enjoyed this one and you chose to explore it with your teacher! Cheers!
Mark I was trying to trace hands because they are so hard to draw for me but due to all my years inking Manga pictures I was going to fast to learn how to train my muscles properly. Now how’s that for a run on sentence? Anyways I think tracing is a valid way to do things to teach ones hands and arms how to create things and I do have a light box so I am guilty but mostly I use it to sketch on lesser quality paper and then move it to higher quality with less eraser marks. Great conversation as always and yeah lots of click bait out there which you’re not at all. Oh nice pumpkins man I love how well you can ink free hand. I can’t I always need guidelines or it just turns into one big mess. Cheers from Denver.
Thank you for the kind words, Rob L, and time watching. Much of being creative is about muscle memory - the result of performing a task or routine to where our muscles become strengthened to accommodate that task or routine - whether it's sports, playing an instrument, or drawing. I agree with you, especially that tracing can help get our muscle memory in shape to be able to eventually draw without needing to trace. That's the basis of calligraphy, too - to practice the basic shapes so much that they become familiar and effortless to create. Stay well and again, thank you! ~ Mark
Hearing this opinion really enlightened me.
There is pros and cons in tracing however the online art community is just really a scary place and is not veru friendly to beginners who trace in order for them to learn.
I used to trace back in the past, but its for practice and now my drawings look like they have better anatomy than ever. Of course, I use images and place them in Photoshop for studying and referencing now.
Thank you so much for this video😁 I'm so agree with you. I trace some of my work. It have developed me as an artist so much. 😁
You're welcome, May Brox, and thank you for watching and leaving such generous feedback. Glad to know it's been helpful for both of us! ;)
Wow. I really really appreciate that you took the time to make this video.
Thank you so much! I appreciate that! :)
thank you i feel so much better after this video. i will continue to draw with pride now. thanks Campbell.........
Awesome!!! Keep it up!
Loved watching you add the shading and using a dip pen while you spoke.... i love this kind of style. Stippling is especially cool and I really enjoyed seeing how you combined many different kinds of shading (hatching, cross hatching, stippling, etc).
I really really appreciate that, Megan Tanju! Thank you so much for watching, but especially for sharing your feedback and kind words. Made my day! ~ Mark
My question to anyone saying "Cheater!" is this: As long as copyright is being followed, why do you care? MYOB :)
I use tracing how you do in this video, to transfer my practice sketches to the final paper. I use lightboxes, which we were taught in college art class. I use projector apps, which emulate the old masters' Camera Obscura. None of this is cheating, it's smart. It's YOUR art and you can do whatever you want with it.
I think the gatekeepers are simply jealous and want to keep out any perceived competition. I don't worry myself with those people.
Everyone should listen to this video, you have made many valid points. If it helps in the creative process, use it and trace. How else can we learn to be on our own,and do our own thing? There are arguments for and against, but who cares, just keep on being creative, whatever works for you . Life is too short to be hung up on this. so if tracing helps you along in your journey, do it. Art speaks for itself, why should be speak for it.
Thank you, Helen Shaefer, I really appreciate your feedback on this. Art definitely speaks for itself, and even the best imitations will still reveal truths, however unwelcomed by the imitator. Every piece of art, in it's own way, is a self-portrait. Thanks for your time with this one! Hoping all is well! :)
Tracing with intent of learning is good, I couldn't draw muscles for the sake of me until I traced, then I started to draw pretty good looking muscles sketches than before.
Very good, Mark. I like especially the point of challenging the gullibility of people. Hey, folks, use your brain!
Right, Isabella Bihy? I don't understand why so many people, in ALL kinds of fields, follow blindly off the cliff of knowledge by not questioning everything they hear. Sheep will be sheep! lol! Thank you so much for watching and your thoughts! :)
Tracing is an excellent way to learn perspective. My favorite thing is to trace a photo I like several times and then try and draw freehand. This has really helped me grow. I also trace when I just want to hone my painting skills on a subject without having to learn how to draw it too. I don't sell my work, so copyright isn't an issue.
Such an excellent video. I am a retired senior who has gotten back into art and I am reminded of my high school art teacher. I adored him and he was wonderful with all of the kids, especially the ones who got into trouble in a lot of their other classes. The only time I ever saw him get upset with a student was when she was trying to draw a picture of a baby from a magazine advertisement. He was so upset that she would try to copy, that you had to draw from real life! I’m sure he thought that she was talented and that this would stunt her growth. Now, fifty years later, I still remember this. So, I really welcomed your video. Thank you for posting such excellent content and illustration work.
Another great message, Mark! I love to trace an outline of something I want to paint, then transfer it several times and paint each image differently. I always learn a lot by looking at the differences in my own work. And it’s just plain fun! I love that we can choose to listen/not listen to anyone, including naysayers.
Thank you, Nan Schifris! Exactly. I love your point, "it's just plain fun," because unless you're getting paid by Sotheby's to create a masterpiece that will hang in a hotel in New York, the whole point is to have fun and learn. :)
Thank you for sharing this. I completely agree with you.
Thank you, Diane Thoroughman! I appreciate your time watching this one and your kind support! Hope all is well! :)
Thank you Mark! another brilliant video, as always great content and discussion.
Thank you so much, Geo Aguas! I'm happy you enjoyed this one. Hoping all is well with you and your family! :)
Thank YOU so much for this video. I'm getting back to drawing at age 43 and I do some tracing to help me get into practice of the craft. I stopped drawing regular around my early 20's so this video is a big help to me. I just found your video in my feed and thank goodness 🙌✌🙏
That's so great, The Wrestling CHICK Network! I'm really happy you found the video and it was meaningful for you! Glad to hear you're getting back into drawing again and hope you find other videos here helpful as well. Let me know if there's any questions you might have, as I'd be happy to try and answer them with you! Cheers! ~ Mark
Great to hear this and I've always agreed, but some people just want to find fault, right. I mentioned to you in another video about how I'm writing a graphic memoir, but I was wondering what you thought about the neuro tests asking the elderly to draw a cube. In Betty Edwards book, she states people can't draw without being taught and a cube is a beginner drawing lesson right, but neurologists use it to judge a person's cognitive functioning. My mother did okay, but she always hated drawing and it was one of the very few compliments she gave me. It's crazy and I found just 1 very small study about cube drawing.
Thank you for sharing your feedback and experience, Kaylene Dawn. The Cube Test. Funny, I used to give students a "cube test" as an art teacher. Students thought I was joking, "a test in art class? What?" but the results gave me an accurate insight to a student's skill level, their understanding of visual-spacial relations, cognitive awareness of their success/failure in executing the cube, as well as what I may expect from them and what kind of time would be needed to grasp concepts and where they could use improvement. "Cube tests" may be as beneficial in art assessment as the Rorschach test and the "clock drawing" tests are in psychology, especially within the dementia and Alzheimers. But, I am talking too much. How IS your novel coming along? Sounds like your delving into some pretty heavy stuff! Hoping all is going well!
@@MDCampbell It is overwhelming, but I'm keeping my brain challenged by it. What do you think of the concept of asking the elderly who possibly haven't any interest or training in drawing to draw a cube as a cognitive assessment? I'm always curious what artists think of it as a neuro test?
I think tracing can be useful, so long as the student doesn't get too attached to this method as a crutch. Or at the very least, they use it in a way that expands the technique as a learning tool. For instance, instead of mindlessly tracing, the artist could use tracing graph paper. Those graph lines can get them thinking about how proportions & composition work. Even better is graph paper that architects use, which can teach a person alot about perspectives & depth of field. I like to trace on top of one copy under my sketch, but also to have another copy as a reference to the side. This helps to build the habit of looking at an image off-hand & developing eye-hand coordination. I also think it's important that after tracing, you attempt to do it free-hand (with the reference image). Tracing should be a stepping stone for further advancement of one's own skills, not the end-all be-all for one's own artwork. Gatekeeping & art policing is a fascade used by egoistic amateurs to compensate for their own artistic inadequacies.
Another "tracing" method that I remember seeing is the way Disney animators would use a transparent sheet called a cel, and then transfer those details via "the cleaning process". This process required retracing the same outlines to be used for the different motion frames that'd later get colorized & photographed. As a kid, I was fascinated to see that professionals had no issue using shortcuts & openly copying images. Recreating a cel image for animation has to be exact & tracing definitely expedited that process. They weren't doing it from memory, and neither did major artists of history who used this very old technique. According to the collaborative research of artists, lithographers, and surface scientists, artists dating as far back as 1430 traced their images from optical projections of photographs or of real life.
It was often used by the likes of Johannes Vermeer, who relied on a Camera Obscura technique to trace his genre paintings -- including his famous *"Girl with a Pearl Earring"* and *"The Milkmaid."* Raphael's classic *"School of Athens"* was also a tracing! In fact, many Renaissance artists have paintings in which you could see the same lines of drapery or backgrounds being reused across various paintings. There are many clearly observable shortcuts used by these great masters. The 19th-century American painter Thomas Eakins had his own secret technique for achieving the remarkable realism often praised in his work: he traced from photographs. Even more modern artists like Andy Warhol famously championed the use of projectors for tracing. So it's a method that not only should be acceptable, it should be praised. Without it, we'd never have seen the great works of art that we have today.
Wow, such incredible feedback! Thank you, YourMajesty143! (I have to ask, does the 143 in your name represent "I" "Love" "You?" My mother always flashes that with her hands when my kids and I leave her house after visiting, and my kids flash it back. Good stuff!) I really appreciate the concrete points you make in your reply, really driving the point home about the value and relevance of tracing, both historically and in our own work. Grateful for your time and knowledge! Thank you! ~ Mark
Oh my goodness Mark... This is so on spot!... Great video! Thank you for sharing 😃👍
Thank you so much, Lisa! Hope you're doing great! :)
I enjoyed this. I understand and agree with your perspective. As a beginner to sketching, tracing vases, apples, birds bodies helped me improve my curves.trying to force my muscle memory and brain to understand this shape.my worry was/is will I ever improve that shape - curves. I have also started to make grids. Hopefully these two methods will help my muscle memory.
Thank you for this 😊. Having people tell me that (insert tool or technique here) is cheating has been incredibly detrimental to my art and has resulted in me not creating original art that I would otherwise have created. I even once had an older artist tell me that it was "a bit cheaty" to use Payne's Grey in a tonal painting rather than mixing black and white. Now I know that my job is to create original art and whatever tools and techniques I use to do that are all just part of the process.
I'll often scan my sketches into the computer. This is a great way to flip the image and see what I messed up, to play around with possible colors and backgrounds. I'll often print it in the same proportions as the watercolor paper or canvas and then trace or use a grid to scale it up.
Great video Mark! Others have already stated the obvious that tracing shouldn't be a crutch and should never be theft of another's work. And if you are drawing a lot, it won't be a crutch. You'll enjoy freehand drawing much more than tracing anyway.
Thank you, sketchingjohn! I really like the idea of scanning an flipping to review your work. When I was in art school, I had a teacher who took one of my acrylic paintings and he stared at it (in front of the class, mind you), before grabbing it and turning it upside down. He stood back and said, "There. I like this much better. It tells a much bigger story than we already know!" It was an illustration of the titanic sinking. When he flipped it upside down, the point of view had changed from the viewer being above the water, to now being underwater looking up at the ship. It blew my mind and it's a practice I use all the time, now. lol!
@@MDCampbell I flip all the time as well, though never anything as earthshaking as your Titanic painting. Mostly just an eye or cheek out of line.
As a visually impaired artist, I am finding that tracing is really helpful especially on my Samsung Galaxy Tab S4. I find that when I trace, I see things that I wouldn't in life. I still try to get out and draw from life, but for me because I only have one working on I and have trouble with depth perception, working with photography is the best way.
TYSM this video helped me a lot I was thought that is was bad and u wont learn anything from it cuz ur not using muscle memory and while that is partly true, even why i tried to copy it and practice everyday its not even close to the drawings im trying to copy💀 But tracing helped me understand how to draw it and once i was able to copy down those features I was able to learn how to draw everything on my own. Tracing can help u understand things better but i dont trace every single time I want to draw something, I trace it first and then try to copy what I drew. It can help you understand a lot of features if you use it in a way u understand and if your using it efficiently and actually know what your doing
I'm glad you put this video up. I'm not the best at drawing, but have drawn for years. If I want to paint something I don't know how to draw or draw well to make it look like what it is. Some simple drawing I can do, but lines aren't straight or looking like what its supposed to look like.
i dont think tracing is a bad exercise i just hate it when people do their final projects and present them as if they drew it and think they should get high acclaim. tracing is just a good exercise but people shoudnt rely on it fully. they should learn to copy references, trace and draw from memory. these are all good exercises but the ultimate goal is to develop a good memory for drawing so you dont always have to look at references. the ideal artist is like kim jung gi. he doesnt even use shapes to draw anymore . he can see his drawing on the paper. that is what every artist should aim to become. but tracing would especially be great for beginners. my older bro who draws way better than me, has another technique he developed and that is when he is out and about or working, he will trace objects in his mind moving his finger in his pocket and that has been developing his memory for drawing he rarely uses references anymore
Professional artists have been using the grid system for centuries. I bet they'd trace occasionally if they had the proper resources for it. They also used predrawn cartoons to transfer work. Their own, usually, but sometimes from an intern, especially for frescos. Light projections were also used, and still are.
As an artist just painting for fun, I occasionally trace my own photos or copyright free photos, but changing up the colors and textures. It has improved my skills so that I am improving my free hand drawing.
Aha! Tracing PAPER is a tool; TRACING is a technique! 😊👏👏👏👍
Thanks!
Thanks Jed Intexas. Sometimes it can be semantics, and I may have been unclear in my own thoughts. Sure, tracing can be an overall tool to get a project done, and I think that's what some people are referring to. But, to me, it was important to clarify that tracing is, indeed, a technique first, and using it as such has advantages, whereas using it as a tool can make some people too reliant on it to really glean the learning benefits from it. I hope that made sense! lol! Take care and again, thank you! :)
M.D. Campbell It did make sense!!! And thank you for the clarification! Semantics are important.
I trace to develop my style and coloring techniques. Though I do share my work around my friends, taking credit will never come to mind. I’m still working on it so one day I’ll be able to draw in the style without tracing! :]
I heard what you said earlier that when you tried to do your art for the first time freehanded and free minded, and it came out like a little child drew it. That's like me. I always struggle with trying to do my art freehanded and free minded. Even to this very day, I still severely struggle trying to draw. No matter how hard I practice it always looks like a young child has drawn it. It's because I cannot discern and severely struggle with length, depth, width and height. In other words, when I see an image in my mind it looks solid and detailed. But when I'm just about ready to start, my arm freezes up and that image in my mind shatters into a disasterous mess. That's when I discovered tracing. It helps me greatly. And now I came up with my own style of tracing that I like to call "Composite Tracing." What I do is this. I take random images that I find on Google Images, then by using Auto Desk Sketchbook I put them together like a puzzle. Then I trace over the image that I put together and presto! My art is complete. So to me, tracing acts like a very helpful artistic way for me to create my art.
I cannot order stickers because cannot set up good location or delivery so I trace the drawings for my qnimes journal and for the future I want to learn how to draw good but now I want sticker to anime journal
I've used tracing to transfer from paper to canvas primarily for art class in middle and high school. Some of my best pieces have been taken from paper to canvas by this method. Tracing is totally okay especially if you want to go from paper to a more tricky surface such as canvas.
Absolutely agree, 100%, Creativa Artly. Thank you for checking this out and for your insight on this one. Cheers! :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Personally I did not receive any serious art education when I was in school. My "art class" was just an hour of drawing that was run (supervised) by a teacher without any art background. Also I was not allowed to do any art at home. So as an adult, tracing is the only way for me to learn especially perspectives and proportions but I have felt a lot of guilt and insecurities with my art until now. I thought I was too late to learn "proper art techniques." Even though I am not a professional artist I could not put my art out there, not even to my friends, because most of my art involves some form of tracing and I thought it was somehow wrong. I felt my art did not have enough quality. Now I can go back to drawing board and enjoy my art wholeheartedly!!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to post your feedback, Jackson Harn. An art teacher with no art background is just not right. wow. I'm glad you're finding the light to your creative journey. In my opinion, it's never too late. In fact, there's so much to discover! Cheers! ~ Mark
@@MDCampbell thank you 😊 I'm glad to find your channel. I'm learning not just about art but also about life watching your channel, there are good attitudes and insights I'm learning from you. Please keep up the good work 😁
Sometimes i sit and just doodle and i end up having a drawing i end up liking. I try recreate it.. NOPE DOESNT HAPPEN! So tracing like you did in this video and adding elements is always something i have done. My favourite part is absolutely colouring in and seeing things come together. Proportions i work on yes but i do that in sketches anyway so.. i trace it. And i love it.Iam going to start doing contour tracing and get to some portraits
Tracing is OK. You forgot to mention that using a ruler to make a straight line is also OK.
I miss my T-square. Seriously. ;)
Thank you. It's bothering me for a while about this topic. It's like saying copying your friend's homework doesn't need any skills and learn nothing. Well, how can I copy if I'm illiterate, or cannot decrypt my friend's handwriting and something have to go in my head before I can copy it.
Well said, Pong Tre! Thank you for your thoughts on this discussion!
The creative process requires continued refinements; and the project evolves. As your initial ideas are visualized they are built into a completed structure. I can have multiple pages of translucent paper and figures cut out, tacked and stacked. One pencil, one eraser, exacto knife, contact cement and a roll of parchment. My design realized, a final sheet is done and ready to transfer. Others do the same process digitally. Line work completed it on the the rendering stage.
Criticism or judgment made by others of your techniques is not the problem... believing them is. Build your vision using whatever means at your disposal and satisfy yourself.
Finally, I am referring to personal vision; IF you are working to fulfill an assignment or commission, your damn well better have an adjustment scheme or that one project will be your life's work.
Wow, what great feedback, Coulton Nitely. "Criticism or judgement made by others is not the problem - believe them is." That is such an important point and I'm glad you shared it. I totally agree with building your vision, especially when it becomes your life's work... I know that, too, from personal experience! Really thankful for your voice on this. Have a great day! :)