They should have had prompts (similar to workouts) when the segments were about to start. Or implemented some sort of countdown so people new the segments had started and that they should start going hard. Would agree that most people on mine treated it like a race. I went max on the segments and found I was overtaking 50-60 people each time (even took 1st on the sprint with not my best timer ever) only to have them fly past me on the “recovery” sections. So think a lot of people are missing the point and definitely not using the ride as intended. Seemed a lot of people were expecting a drafted group ride rather than an individual effort type ride.
Thanks Sarah! Agree that the segments weren’t well marked - I completely missed the Titan’s Grove start so was just pootling along and enjoying the scenery until I came to the finish and realised that’s not what I should have been doing. I spotted the start of the next two segments but did have moments of doubt - distance markers in the segments would have been really useful to help me manage my effort more effectively. Overall it was a good experience and I’m really interested to see how the training impacts my times. Definitely hoping for an improvement on the first stage! 😊
Great info ahead of me getting these rides in! A little shock at ~11:27 when you said a 500km banner haha. Quickly realized that was really 500 m :) I still suck at climbing, so I am hoping this program will help me out at least a bit - and I will be on the slower end of your timeframes on those climbs. I am already not looking forward to those parts, but recognize the only way to get better is to do them.
Thanks for this. I totally missed the first segment I I was expecting some sort of prompt. I'm going to attempt the ride again but not knowing the maps too well a better start to the segments would sure have been welcomed. Thanks for all the great content
Yes! I'm doing the video on this as well. I watched Eric ride last night and he passed like 200 people going up Titans Grove and he was trying to tell people what they needed to do. It's not a group ride. It's just a bunch of people that happen to be riding at the same time but they are doing individual rides and three segments of the ride are the important ones. By the way I will take Teddy's and Ktten's highly scientific offer of a 30% FTP increase, thank you. And lens cleaners rule.
Thank you for the tips. It’s my first zwift academy. I will be doing the base line ride today. I’m so glad that I watched your video before jumping into that ride. Now I know how to correctly prepare myself for what’s coming. Cool!
Glad I got to see this before I did the baseline ride. Perhaps insight to the segment markers was in the orientation ride. Missed my window on the baseline as I left my cycling shoes at our summer place. Oh well, will look to sneak that in this week.
Great video Sarah! two other tips I would follow for the Baseline/finish rides, would be to not use any power ups on the segments themselves during the rides as you may not have access to the same power up on the other ride and would therefore have a skewed comparison and the second kind of links in as its about making sure conditions are the same on both the rides so use the same frame and wheels for both also
It can certainly help comparing times. What I would recommend for training purposes however is ignore the time - I know, seems counterintuitive - but focus on pulling a power average over a segment. Let's say titans grove reverse took you 2:15 pull the middle 2 minutes and look at sustained power and compare ride to ride. Even without power ups or bike changes, things as simple as coming in carrying less or more speed or gearing changes can impact segment time. Use time on the day to push yourself against other riders to give that extra 5 percent, but for your performance, compare power. Time on the longer segments might be a bit more reliable, but the same idea applies 😉
I wonder: did they remove the time-affecting power ups like Eric said they should? I did my ride yesterday and got +10 xp on all 3 segments. No prize spinner animation either, just went straight to the xp power up and sat there.
@@markvalentine4366 another Zwift miss... The directions say they should be gone, but they're probably batting about 500 on that execution, which is pretty damn stupid considering Powerup lockouts have been a feature for years.
Every zwift ride is a race, I have never been in any group ride where there isn't a group off the front well over the instructed W/KG for the group ride...people will lie about every one of their stats and ride in categories below their actual level to sandbag ... all the rest of us can do is ignore and complete this as instructed. thank you for the explanations
I got sooooo bamboozled on my baseline ride because there were no notifications and info on my screen as for a workout or regular ride. My plan was to stay in the grey and blue zones between the segments and really push as hard as I could on the sprint and 2 climbs. I saw the start of the Sprint, but the lack of the traditional stopwatch on the screen made me think it wasn't a sprint. So I throttled back. And neither of the climbs had a time counter when the climb started (as usual) so I was confused about whether the official climb had started or not. This is the first year they have done a baseline ride and IMO their programmers dropped the ball. Others in my group were confused too and people were constantly posting questions about when and where things started. I might do the baseline ride again, now that I know what the heck is going on.
I think they should have added the purple arch over the start AND finish line of each segment, rather than just the finish line like they did. That would make it a lot clearer. And perhaps the usual text all over the center of the screen as a heads up a few hundred meters before the start.
I would have thought there would have been some enhancements over last year given the same confusion, but no such luck. Even a 500m to start banner in bright red or something before each segment or a beacon on the map. I can't say I'm surprised, same old shit I suppose 😂
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic More Truth, my Sister. And speaking of red, is your hair red? Is the Photogenic Lady a red head! 👩🏻🦰👩🏻🦰👩🏻🦰‼️ (That would explain a lot. 🤣🤣🤣)
Thanks for the advisory video on the Zwift Baseline activity. Only my 12th ride (138 FTP @1.2/1.7 w/kg cyclist), invariably found myself getting dragged by the rushing peloton through Titan to suddenly pass the 500m KOM mark - legs shot…trudged over the line….dragged my cadence/wattage back up to find that there was an (undesignated Sprint segment) there along the ride (while slowly getting dropped off the peloton), and staring headlong up Volcano at 1.3/1.5wkg trying to complete the stage. 298 riders…5 of us crossing the top some 20-25mins after them… lots of banter/chats from the group with confusion and did we miss the start, unknown segment markers on the track, no HUD objective maps either, and despite reading the instructions many times - couldn’t understand where each segment was to begin. Alas, looked at my data sheet and have now etched in my brain the 3 distances of the required segments…so I might do this again.
As usual, timely and spot on. With an FTP embarrassingly low I’m looking forward to a few rides to force me out of my comfort zone. I’m not yet sure if the Academy is for me but you’ve helped with how I should ride. I’d still rather do two or three 50 mile days of outside junk rides but I’m hoping this will get me to better focus on improvement.
Everyone starts this program somewhere. Even failing the workouts pushes adaptation and ends up being a long-term win even if it is frustrating in the short term. I think everyone who adds in some consistent structured work, even if it's a struggle, sees some tangible benefit at the end of the day 🙂
Thanks for the advisory video on the Zwift Baseline activity. Only my 12th ride (138 FTP @1.2/1.7 w/kg cyclist), invariably found myself getting dragged by the rushing peloton through Titan to suddenly pass the 500m KOM mark - legs shot…trudged over the line….dragged my cadence/wattage back up to find that there was an (undesignated Sprint segment) there along the ride (while slowly getting dropped off the peloton), and staring headlong up Volcano at 1.3/1.5wkg trying to complete the stage. 298 riders…last 5 of us crossing the top some 20-25mins after them… lots of banter/chats from the group with confusion and did we miss the start, unknown segment markers on the track, no HUD objective maps either, and despite reading the instructions many times - couldn’t understand where each segment was to begin. Alas, looked at my data sheet and have now etched in my brain the 3 distances of the required segments…so I might have to do this again for a better result.
Great info as usual Sarah. Good morning to Teddy and kitten. I decided to just ride Innsbruck instead of trying the baseline ride this morning after seeing your video. I will study the instructions & route more carefully, Per your suggestions, although with an STP of 130 established last week, I doubt it will make much difference at this level
The blame for this train wreck lies solely on Zwift's shoulders, don't blame the customers. When there's so much confusion, that's bad design. Zwift's design team did a terrible job on the course layout and instructions. My favorite example: there's a purple marker 500m before the sprint segment of the Standard course. But there's also one 500m after the sprint. Nobody can ride the course CCW, so what does that marker do other than cause confusion? If the design team did a good job, there wouldn't be so many videos and reddit threads complaining or asking questions. There were a LOT of new riders when I did it, so there was a tremendous amount of informal Q&A in chat. When other customers have to be your tech support, that's bad design.
I'm not blaming the customers for the less than ideal design in the ride itself, I mentioned that. That said, I do put the onus on the riders for not reading the instructions at all. It clearly states the objective of the ride. Racing beginning to end is not something that anyone who read the ride instructions would do. Those who did read those instructions were jammed up differently, and I place that blame on Zwift. They didn't follow- up those instructions with good visuals within the event. The 90% of the people I witnessed could not have possibly read the directions in any way shape or form... That's on them. This video is intended to capture as many new people as possible who may not read those instructions and give more context and encourage them to spend 2 minutes reading through the details to do this right.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic as soon as I saw this ride, I knew it would be what it is. Sure zwift have major issues in getting this stuff right, but tbh most people just don't read. The people actually up for the contract do though, so it isn't such an issue in reality. I end up turning off comments in just the general group rides, because morons treat them as serious races and spend the whole ride complaining of people on zpower.... dude, I'm doing z2, go do a race if you want that. The point of my post? There are lots of idiots in the zwift company (probably because salaries are really low), and idiots on zwift too.
I managed well most of the course, if you did research you could tell that Segment 1 was going to start at 4.9K etc. However, that 500 meter sign after the sprint was weird, I thought I had missed the start of the final segment.
ERG mode won't be available. This will be a "free ride" format that you will have to adjust power and gearing against the gradient supplied by the game. Just hit the segments and give it everything you have 😉
Lol, I am behind the 8 ball a bit. I climbed Mt. Marcy on Saturday and have been complete dog shit for days. I barely got through the ride to edit and post this today. I had the best-laid plans to do this Monday to get it out to everyone early, but you know... normal people climb mountains on their vacation and can't walk for two days 😂😂😂
I will do it again one of these days. I was watching the zwft insider guy. Beat him by 2 min. We finish with same avg. power. But I was not reading his in ride guidance 😂😂😂
Zwift Academy and newer riders. I see a few issues with Zwift Academy: 1. Newer riders might not have much endurance but might have strong legs. The 20 Vs 60 min FTP test will not have the same results if endurance is low. 2. Newer rides may not know how to pace for an FTP so end up blowing up (burning all their matches) before the end or leave to much in the tank providing poor FTP numbers which are used for the training. 3. The baseline test had no analysis with it and as you train there is nothing I have found to indicate progress. Other than you completed a training ride. I am hoping at the end when I take the baseline again there will be something to let me know what the numbers mean. 4. The EGR mode is great for training rides, but finding the right power on that crazy hilly group “Recovery ride” is not easy for someone new. Even using lots of gears a heavier rider on those hills will blow past recovery power. And with all rider levels together being dropped to the very back is not much of a group ride for the new guy. I think that is enough for this post. I hope Zwift reads these posts. #zwift
cant stop looking at that scratch on your glasses, hope you didn't have a crash? I did the baseline workout today and yep lots of people took it as a race and were asking chat what we had to do, i studied the map and segments start/finish and reviewed my power to have a rough goal this really helped thank you for these tips :) I forgot to 1. change my tyres back to trainer tyre id just tried 25mm and had a lower psi so results are probably off 2. calibrate my trainer so heads up if anyone needs to calibrate do that before the event. I did the standard and 400m is wayy too long for a sprint.
What I find so disappointing about the zwift academy is the complete lack of guidance on how to do these rides. You nailed it, and I am thinking I may want to take the baseline again. Zwift also isn’t giving any guidance on the workouts either…. Here are three workouts and you have four weeks to do them. Thanks zwift, how often should we do them, what other rides should we blend in, etc. I mean some of us know a little about this, but a complete lack of guidance is lousy. Thanks again Sarah for the great advice.
I agree they could leverage their own channel as a vehicle for this and link it right to the companion app. I suspect there are a few reasons they don't make more of an effort to bridge the divide between "casuals" and "performance riders." But I feel an effort to do so may help with engagement in the whole "package* of indoor training and riding and might generate more community loyalty and patience with the headaches and growing pains endemic to.the platform. They really need an ambassador that deals with the customer experience and education outside of the purely technical elements and code. Hype around these events should be their bread and butter... There's only so many circuits around tempus digit one can remain enthusiastic about.
I totally messed up. Thought I was doing the Standard but ended up in the advanced which I figured out at the end of the ride when I never got to the volcano (I did pick C when I signed up for the ride). They definitely need to prompt you the segment is coming and the distance. I don't know where KOM's are or remember which one's are for this ride. I think it will be a bad comparison if you never road the segments like this as I don't know what type of effort they require.
A similar thing happened to me. I signed up for a C ride but ended up in A. I figured it out before the start but didn't have time to get into the C ride and had to wait until the following day.
I did read the instructions but still fumbled my first attempt at the baseline ride. Originally, there was no information about when each segment would kick off and I completely missed the first one as I did not see the marker, being inside a big group. Some heads-up would have been nice.
Thanks! It is amazing how many people are not doing these rides correctly. Do you happen to know if you do the baseline ride twice does the better performance become your "baseline" that they use to compare to the final ride or do they just use the first ride you do as your baseline?
Yes, if you are looking at being evaluated for the contract, they will take your best performance. Additionally, the greater weight will be placed on the finish line ride for obvious reasons. For non-pro contenders, it's just a matter of personal review and comparison, it won't update your FTP values unless you do a 20 minute breakthrough segment that it picks up as a PR. There's no harm in doing these rides multiple times 🙂
Great video. I did the standard ride yesterday and the guidance says that the Zwift companion app gives you further information on your profile and performance when compared to your age group for the short medium and long segments. I didn’t see any sign of it at all. Any suggestions for what to do ?
So I can tell you where it is, but I'm not seeing a full breakdown. Not sure if the feature isn't fully implemented or if you need to do the finish line ride first. To find it, at the top of the companion app click the white ribbon under the "riding now" then click the Academy road stripe. That will list your results and progress. You can click onto each segment to get results. The only thing that's showing now are best efforts. I suspect after the end, you'll get a better breakdown showing your comparative results and profile.... Or Zwift will completely whiff and not complete the feature 🤣🤣
I have not done the baseline test yet. Still in the process of finishing a 15 Day stage ride on Fulgaz. But i intend to do it and will have to watch this video again as I like to be prepared. That said I think Zwift is getting lazy with respect to event organization. From what I have read they have basically handed over the reins of organised racing to WRL and from what i am reading here they should do the same for the academy because they are failing at the start line or should we say baseline. I appreciate unlike a workout where everyone is in sync it may be more difficult to get a count down per individual before the efforts, but surely a couple of markers saying "500m to effort" "250m to effort" "50m to effort" would solve all the issues people have had and should not be too difficult? Racers will be racers, so many Zwifters racing for no glory, I just let them go, but I know it riles up some people :-)
As always Sarah, this all makes perfect sense. Remember though how dumb and over competitive some zwifters are and your advice to them is like Pushing Water Uphill With a Fork.
It will, but its negligible. You want to compare power execution rather than pure monies and seconds. If you do a segment in the same time but your normalized/average power is higher, that indicates improvement, just like riding outside.
this was super helpful! i'm brand new to zwift (as in got an indoor trainer last week) and definitely got swept up in all the excitement, lights and banners for the academy. perhaps a silly question, but are there any negatives with doing the baseline ride twice? once as a scout of the course and then again for real? (i'm not under any illusions i'm a contender for any prizes)
Not at all do it as often as you want. It doesn't affect your progress, I actually quit mine before the last segment because I was comfortable with it, but even if you finish, you're only credited for completion on the first. Comparing the two rides is manual process, so Zwift doesn't crunch those numbers and won't get screened up by extra data 🙂
I made that mistake . Did the standard . Not going for the contract. But my take away , I did the standard in under 45 min. Avg pwr 227 😂😂. I am 50 years old
WINNING! Lol, I blame Zwift, the natural inclination is to give it everything you have and go for position and a higher normalized power. If people knew they were KOM hunting, they wouldn't be "ego riding" I am sure. 🤣
I did the baseline ride and it was a complete joke in terms of how it was organised. There were no instructions whatsoever. If you do a normal workout or a training plan there are instructions about what to do (like cycle at 240 Watts or keep cadence at 105) ,when to do it (new interval coming up in 30 seconds), how long to do it (we're halfway there) why you do it (to improve this or that) etc. I expected this on the baseline ride but there was none. Zero, nada, nothing. I was sort of waiting for an explanation or instructions but they never came. I saw the whole bunch going full out so I did that too. I had heard about the segments but had now idea how and what. I saw the segment timer coming up twice but was not sure when they would start exactly. Let alone when they would end. One segment I missed completely. You might say that I should have read "the paragraphs" beforehand, but that should not be neccesary. When I was finished, I got my Total time, distance covered and the watts I produced. No mention of any segments. All in all it was really bad. I don't mind because it is still a workout. But I can't believe that Zwift announces this as a major yearly event, yet put no effort in it to make it worthwhile.
I understand that the event design was not great, but I won't agree that people should not be required to spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes. This program is something people should be taking on with purpose and understanding, not blindly checking boxes to get unlocks. You wouldn't go into a workout without reviewing the graph or objective for the day, why would you go into an assessment without the same due diligence? Setting this up like a workout defeats the purpose of what is being evaluated. You don't want to go in with a power objective, you want to simulate different power systems and react to terrain and variability as it would present itself in the real world. Additional arches or warning markers would have been all that was needed to close the loop on the confusion. A rider could read the overview and look for banners and put in their efforts. Pretty simple. Zwift definitely dropped the ball there.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic "I understand that the event design was not great" LOL, "Was not great" is a bit of an understatement. It was abysmal. "but I won't agree that people should not be required to spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes." Well, I beg to differ. Things should self-explanatory or they should be explained. I work in UX and UI and if users do not understand what they are supposed to do the UI has failed, not the user. To make sure that things works as we want it to work, we test this on actual users. You would be surprised what difficulties average users encounter. And even if we would agree that we should spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes: I did not see them. "This program is something people should be taking on with purpose and understanding, not blindly checking boxes to get unlocks. You wouldn't go into a workout without reviewing the graph or objective for the day," If you go to the Zwift Academy page on the zwift.com page, you'll see the graphs for the workout. There is none for the baseline ride. No explanation on what to expect, no “notes” , no nothing. “Additional arches or warning markers would have been all that was needed to close the loop on the confusion. “ Maybe but there were none. I did see 500M markers in random places (AFTER the sprint, for people riding anticlockwise??) but I had no idea what they meant. “Zwift definitely dropped the ball there.” Yes indeed.
@@eagerbob There really is no need to be aggressive or haughty here. If you don't agree that people need to put in a minimal amount of effort to understand something, you're free to your opinion. But, this program isn't about UI, so your appeal to false authority working in development is irrelevant. The academy program is not about the "game" it's about training. When you embark on a training program, you do the requisite research and planning. This is the problem with stumbling into structured training downstream from Zwift. People are too concerned with having information spoon-fed to them and become passive participants in "plans" that lead them nowhere. Xert and TrainerRoad are the only two platforms that come close to that sort of model, and that is their focus and why there is no gamification there. Even in those cases, you need to READ, understand, and be prepared. "If you go to the Zwift Academy page on the zwift.com page, you'll see the graphs for the workout. There is none for the baseline ride. No explanation on what to expect, no “notes” , no nothing." This is just factually inaccurate. I linked the Zwift academy details for the baseline rides directly from the website. I also screen-captured them right in the video. The details are all right there, clear as day. They are also right at the top of the event manager in the companion app, front row center. Most people use the app to join the ride. The instructions for ANY event are always in the same place. If you didn't see them, so be it. But it's not because Zwift "hid" them. If you feel aggrieved by my statements here and Zwift's execution, that's fine. I have routinely in my videos been HIGHLY critical of Zwift for poor execution and communication with its customer base. That said, I will not absolve people of personal responsibility and diligence when there is enough information available to do the ride correctly if you avail yourself of it. Ideal, no. Available, yes.
I think it is appropriate that the user should need to read the instructions only once and then be able to execute the event to the best of their ability. Recon rides are great, but they should not be necessary. There should be no need to consult RUclips channels to successfully navigate the event although watching Sarah's RUclips videos are often a highlight of my day. Etc. I think we can all agree that the baseline event failed miserably at achieving this level of performance. Perhaps if Zwift set their expectations to those specified by @eagerbob they MIGHT achieve a level of execution specified by Sarah. It appears to me that Zwift has a function they use to deliver their product to customers. It is: Customer Needs or Desires x (0.75) = Product released to customer. In the case of the baseline ride the conversion factor is closer to (0.50). Just one man's opinion, of course.
Ugh that's a bummer, I take it you're spinning out or getting some wheel slip. The big three you can focus on is clamp pressure, tire - getting either a trainer tire or old slick, clean the tire and roller surface with isopropyl to help with slip, and a slightly lower pressure may help - and gearing. Most people have an 11T in the back but if you are on a 1X setup, your front chainring might not be big enough - 50T to 56T is best to avoid running out of gears.
It would be nice to get those slices and insights without having to scrub the graph. The program just isn't there in its capability. In terms of adaptive training, I'm not sure that this is the best structure for it, even if the program was capable, that would likely be better executed in a workout mode that put you in free ride for a fixed time period and gave you baseline test values rather than segments within a ride (which is, in part, to simulate real world variability and the rest to facilitate the social element). That said, these are all canned workouts, there aren't the appropriate variants to cover all the permutations that might come out of a baseline ride, and given most of the workouts reside firmly in zone 5 and below -which will be more centralized around FTP - the baseline and finish line rides are more for you to see the impact on different power systems, not just FTP.
I gotta be honest this whole baseline test is a mess. No one knows how to do this or where the kom's are. I knew the 3rd one started at 13.2 miles but I never saw the lights on the road like I saw in the first two. I'm thinking the workouts will be much better. I will get better times on the finishline ride just from knowing the kom's
Agreed. The workouts are completely structured so very straightforward, but I wish they would have marked the segments much better than they did. Not that people would follow the instructions, but even those who do, it still gets confusing when you are looking for the segments. The scouting ride was critical for me and I have been on the platform for six and a half years.
yep was so annoyed on my baseline ride today, everyone alpha ridering throughout to prove what? these should not be group rides as they only matter individually, its like saying you can only do a workout in a group ride.
I can see competing for the competition in the group for segments as being valuable to eek out that extra 5%, but Zwift should put some prompts right out of the gate in the first 60-90 seconds. "This is not a race. Finish results are not relevant, direct your focus at the segments ONLY." Gives everyone a chance to ease off and recalibrate.
Guess zwift is relying on riders knowing where the start neon light lines are across the road with glowing cone on the side of the road all the way to the finish arch. Made it through the first workout. It is a shock if your not used to: over/unders or how workouts go on zwift or do not have a recent FTP.
Zwift Academy and newer riders. I see a few issues with Zwift Academy: 1. Newer riders might not have much endurance but might have strong legs. The 20 Vs 60 min FTP test will not have the same results if endurance is low. 2. Newer rides may not know how to pace for an FTP so end up blowing up (burning all their matches) before the end or leave to much in the tank providing poor FTP numbers which are used for the training. 3. The baseline test had no analysis with it and as you train there is nothing I have found to indicate progress. Other than you completed a training ride. I am hoping at the end when I take the baseline again there will be something to let me know what the numbers mean. 4. The EGR mode is great for training rides, but finding the right power on that crazy hilly group “Recovery ride” is not easy for someone new. Even using lots of gears a heavier rider on those hills will blow past recovery power. And with all rider levels together being dropped to the very back is not much of a group ride for the new guy. I think that is enough for this post. I hope Zwift reads these posts. #zwift
They should have had prompts (similar to workouts) when the segments were about to start. Or implemented some sort of countdown so people new the segments had started and that they should start going hard.
Would agree that most people on mine treated it like a race. I went max on the segments and found I was overtaking 50-60 people each time (even took 1st on the sprint with not my best timer ever) only to have them fly past me on the “recovery” sections. So think a lot of people are missing the point and definitely not using the ride as intended. Seemed a lot of people were expecting a drafted group ride rather than an individual effort type ride.
Thanks Sarah! Agree that the segments weren’t well marked - I completely missed the Titan’s Grove start so was just pootling along and enjoying the scenery until I came to the finish and realised that’s not what I should have been doing. I spotted the start of the next two segments but did have moments of doubt - distance markers in the segments would have been really useful to help me manage my effort more effectively. Overall it was a good experience and I’m really interested to see how the training impacts my times. Definitely hoping for an improvement on the first stage! 😊
Great info ahead of me getting these rides in! A little shock at ~11:27 when you said a 500km banner haha. Quickly realized that was really 500 m :)
I still suck at climbing, so I am hoping this program will help me out at least a bit - and I will be on the slower end of your timeframes on those climbs. I am already not looking forward to those parts, but recognize the only way to get better is to do them.
Thanks for this. I totally missed the first segment I I was expecting some sort of prompt. I'm going to attempt the ride again but not knowing the maps too well a better start to the segments would sure have been welcomed. Thanks for all the great content
Yes! I'm doing the video on this as well. I watched Eric ride last night and he passed like 200 people going up Titans Grove and he was trying to tell people what they needed to do. It's not a group ride. It's just a bunch of people that happen to be riding at the same time but they are doing individual rides and three segments of the ride are the important ones. By the way I will take Teddy's and Ktten's highly scientific offer of a 30% FTP increase, thank you. And lens cleaners rule.
😂Far be it for Zwift to make anything simple... NEVER! The boys and I are looking forward to your videos! Let season 2 begin!!!!
OMG! I miss your videos Granny, and I'm really looking forward to your next one!
Thank you for the tips. It’s my first zwift academy. I will be doing the base line ride today. I’m so glad that I watched your video before jumping into that ride. Now I know how to correctly prepare myself for what’s coming. Cool!
Awesome! Good luck on your first academy!!!
Did the baseline today. No chance of me going hard between segments, too knackered ;-)
Glad I got to see this before I did the baseline ride. Perhaps insight to the segment markers was in the orientation ride. Missed my window on the baseline as I left my cycling shoes at our summer place. Oh well, will look to sneak that in this week.
Good call on comparing this to the Sufferfest tests. 👏 It's different than racing.
Great video Sarah! two other tips I would follow for the Baseline/finish rides, would be to not use any power ups on the segments themselves during the rides as you may not have access to the same power up on the other ride and would therefore have a skewed comparison and the second kind of links in as its about making sure conditions are the same on both the rides so use the same frame and wheels for both also
It can certainly help comparing times. What I would recommend for training purposes however is ignore the time - I know, seems counterintuitive - but focus on pulling a power average over a segment. Let's say titans grove reverse took you 2:15 pull the middle 2 minutes and look at sustained power and compare ride to ride. Even without power ups or bike changes, things as simple as coming in carrying less or more speed or gearing changes can impact segment time. Use time on the day to push yourself against other riders to give that extra 5 percent, but for your performance, compare power. Time on the longer segments might be a bit more reliable, but the same idea applies 😉
I wonder: did they remove the time-affecting power ups like Eric said they should?
I did my ride yesterday and got +10 xp on all 3 segments. No prize spinner animation either, just went straight to the xp power up and sat there.
I don't think they did Iaeen as I got a feather and an aero helmet during my ride
@@iaeeniaeen1898 they are supposed to be removed, you can see I had one that I dumped to get the XP through the next arch. Likely just a bug 🙂
@@markvalentine4366 another Zwift miss... The directions say they should be gone, but they're probably batting about 500 on that execution, which is pretty damn stupid considering Powerup lockouts have been a feature for years.
Nicely structured and informative video as usual.
Every zwift ride is a race, I have never been in any group ride where there isn't a group off the front well over the instructed W/KG for the group ride...people will lie about every one of their stats and ride in categories below their actual level to sandbag ... all the rest of us can do is ignore and complete this as instructed. thank you for the explanations
Your so great! Thanks!! I’ll be double dipping Trainer Road and Zwift Academy workouts! Probably not the smartest, but I’m addicted!
Me and you both!! Probably dumping my Tuesday/Thursday short intensity for these starting next week 👍
I got sooooo bamboozled on my baseline ride because there were no notifications and info on my screen as for a workout or regular ride. My plan was to stay in the grey and blue zones between the segments and really push as hard as I could on the sprint and 2 climbs. I saw the start of the Sprint, but the lack of the traditional stopwatch on the screen made me think it wasn't a sprint. So I throttled back. And neither of the climbs had a time counter when the climb started (as usual) so I was confused about whether the official climb had started or not. This is the first year they have done a baseline ride and IMO their programmers dropped the ball. Others in my group were confused too and people were constantly posting questions about when and where things started. I might do the baseline ride again, now that I know what the heck is going on.
I think they should have added the purple arch over the start AND finish line of each segment, rather than just the finish line like they did. That would make it a lot clearer. And perhaps the usual text all over the center of the screen as a heads up a few hundred meters before the start.
@@Scharpie Truth, my Brother.
I would have thought there would have been some enhancements over last year given the same confusion, but no such luck. Even a 500m to start banner in bright red or something before each segment or a beacon on the map. I can't say I'm surprised, same old shit I suppose 😂
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic More Truth, my Sister. And speaking of red, is your hair red? Is the Photogenic Lady a red head! 👩🏻🦰👩🏻🦰👩🏻🦰‼️ (That would explain a lot. 🤣🤣🤣)
Thanks for the advisory video on the Zwift Baseline activity.
Only my 12th ride (138 FTP @1.2/1.7 w/kg cyclist), invariably found myself getting dragged by the rushing peloton through Titan to suddenly pass the 500m KOM mark - legs shot…trudged over the line….dragged my cadence/wattage back up to find that there was an (undesignated Sprint segment) there along the ride (while slowly getting dropped off the peloton), and staring headlong up Volcano at 1.3/1.5wkg trying to complete the stage. 298 riders…5 of us crossing the top some 20-25mins after them… lots of banter/chats from the group with confusion and did we miss the start, unknown segment markers on the track, no HUD objective maps either, and despite reading the instructions many times - couldn’t understand where each segment was to begin. Alas, looked at my data sheet and have now etched in my brain the 3 distances of the required segments…so I might do this again.
As usual, timely and spot on. With an FTP embarrassingly low I’m looking forward to a few rides to force me out of my comfort zone. I’m not yet sure if the Academy is for me but you’ve helped with how I should ride. I’d still rather do two or three 50 mile days of outside junk rides but I’m hoping this will get me to better focus on improvement.
Everyone starts this program somewhere. Even failing the workouts pushes adaptation and ends up being a long-term win even if it is frustrating in the short term. I think everyone who adds in some consistent structured work, even if it's a struggle, sees some tangible benefit at the end of the day 🙂
Thanks for the advisory video on the Zwift Baseline activity.
Only my 12th ride (138 FTP @1.2/1.7 w/kg cyclist), invariably found myself getting dragged by the rushing peloton through Titan to suddenly pass the 500m KOM mark - legs shot…trudged over the line….dragged my cadence/wattage back up to find that there was an (undesignated Sprint segment) there along the ride (while slowly getting dropped off the peloton), and staring headlong up Volcano at 1.3/1.5wkg trying to complete the stage.
298 riders…last 5 of us crossing the top some 20-25mins after them… lots of banter/chats from the group with confusion and did we miss the start, unknown segment markers on the track, no HUD objective maps either, and despite reading the instructions many times - couldn’t understand where each segment was to begin.
Alas, looked at my data sheet and have now etched in my brain the 3 distances of the required segments…so I might have to do this again for a better result.
This was super helpful. Thanks so much!
Solid ride Sarah .
Great info as usual Sarah. Good morning to Teddy and kitten. I decided to just ride Innsbruck instead of trying the baseline ride this morning after seeing your video. I will study the instructions & route more carefully, Per your suggestions, although with an STP of 130 established last week, I doubt it will make much difference at this level
It's the delta between the two that will count 💪
Great video, very well said
The blame for this train wreck lies solely on Zwift's shoulders, don't blame the customers. When there's so much confusion, that's bad design. Zwift's design team did a terrible job on the course layout and instructions. My favorite example: there's a purple marker 500m before the sprint segment of the Standard course. But there's also one 500m after the sprint. Nobody can ride the course CCW, so what does that marker do other than cause confusion? If the design team did a good job, there wouldn't be so many videos and reddit threads complaining or asking questions. There were a LOT of new riders when I did it, so there was a tremendous amount of informal Q&A in chat. When other customers have to be your tech support, that's bad design.
I'm not blaming the customers for the less than ideal design in the ride itself, I mentioned that. That said, I do put the onus on the riders for not reading the instructions at all. It clearly states the objective of the ride. Racing beginning to end is not something that anyone who read the ride instructions would do. Those who did read those instructions were jammed up differently, and I place that blame on Zwift. They didn't follow- up those instructions with good visuals within the event. The 90% of the people I witnessed could not have possibly read the directions in any way shape or form... That's on them. This video is intended to capture as many new people as possible who may not read those instructions and give more context and encourage them to spend 2 minutes reading through the details to do this right.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic as soon as I saw this ride, I knew it would be what it is. Sure zwift have major issues in getting this stuff right, but tbh most people just don't read. The people actually up for the contract do though, so it isn't such an issue in reality.
I end up turning off comments in just the general group rides, because morons treat them as serious races and spend the whole ride complaining of people on zpower.... dude, I'm doing z2, go do a race if you want that.
The point of my post? There are lots of idiots in the zwift company (probably because salaries are really low), and idiots on zwift too.
I managed well most of the course, if you did research you could tell that Segment 1 was going to start at 4.9K etc. However, that 500 meter sign after the sprint was weird, I thought I had missed the start of the final segment.
Would you recommend ERG mode for this one?
ERG mode won't be available. This will be a "free ride" format that you will have to adjust power and gearing against the gradient supplied by the game. Just hit the segments and give it everything you have 😉
I knew I should have waited after you analyze the ride before i do the rides 😂😂😂
Lol, I am behind the 8 ball a bit. I climbed Mt. Marcy on Saturday and have been complete dog shit for days. I barely got through the ride to edit and post this today. I had the best-laid plans to do this Monday to get it out to everyone early, but you know... normal people climb mountains on their vacation and can't walk for two days 😂😂😂
I will do it again one of these days. I was watching the zwft insider guy. Beat him by 2 min. We finish with same avg. power. But I was not reading his in ride guidance 😂😂😂
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic also doing it fasted. I am not a rookie, but keep making the Sam damn mistakes 😂😂
@@bnfrl2010 LOL... get those extra glucose watts!!!!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic 😂😂😂😂
Zwift Academy and newer riders. I see a few issues with Zwift Academy:
1. Newer riders might not have much endurance but might have strong legs. The 20 Vs 60 min FTP test will not have the same results if endurance is low.
2. Newer rides may not know how to pace for an FTP so end up blowing up (burning all their matches) before the end or leave to much in the tank providing poor FTP numbers which are used for the training.
3. The baseline test had no analysis with it and as you train there is nothing I have found to indicate progress. Other than you completed a training ride. I am hoping at the end when I take the baseline again there will be something to let me know what the numbers mean.
4. The EGR mode is great for training rides, but finding the right power on that crazy hilly group “Recovery ride” is not easy for someone new. Even using lots of gears a heavier rider on those hills will blow past recovery power. And with all rider levels together being dropped to the very back is not much of a group ride for the new guy.
I think that is enough for this post. I hope Zwift reads these posts.
#zwift
Contract seekers have to also time trial the Alp and do a seventh workout.
cant stop looking at that scratch on your glasses, hope you didn't have a crash?
I did the baseline workout today and yep lots of people took it as a race and were asking chat what we had to do, i studied the map and segments start/finish and reviewed my power to have a rough goal this really helped thank you for these tips :)
I forgot to 1. change my tyres back to trainer tyre id just tried 25mm and had a lower psi so results are probably off 2. calibrate my trainer so heads up if anyone needs to calibrate do that before the event. I did the standard and 400m is wayy too long for a sprint.
What I find so disappointing about the zwift academy is the complete lack of guidance on how to do these rides. You nailed it, and I am thinking I may want to take the baseline again. Zwift also isn’t giving any guidance on the workouts either…. Here are three workouts and you have four weeks to do them. Thanks zwift, how often should we do them, what other rides should we blend in, etc. I mean some of us know a little about this, but a complete lack of guidance is lousy. Thanks again Sarah for the great advice.
I agree they could leverage their own channel as a vehicle for this and link it right to the companion app. I suspect there are a few reasons they don't make more of an effort to bridge the divide between "casuals" and "performance riders." But I feel an effort to do so may help with engagement in the whole "package* of indoor training and riding and might generate more community loyalty and patience with the headaches and growing pains endemic to.the platform. They really need an ambassador that deals with the customer experience and education outside of the purely technical elements and code. Hype around these events should be their bread and butter... There's only so many circuits around tempus digit one can remain enthusiastic about.
I totally messed up. Thought I was doing the Standard but ended up in the advanced which I figured out at the end of the ride when I never got to the volcano (I did pick C when I signed up for the ride). They definitely need to prompt you the segment is coming and the distance. I don't know where KOM's are or remember which one's are for this ride. I think it will be a bad comparison if you never road the segments like this as I don't know what type of effort they require.
A similar thing happened to me. I signed up for a C ride but ended up in A. I figured it out before the start but didn't have time to get into the C ride and had to wait until the following day.
I did read the instructions but still fumbled my first attempt at the baseline ride. Originally, there was no information about when each segment would kick off and I completely missed the first one as I did not see the marker, being inside a big group. Some heads-up would have been nice.
I like your shirt
I wrote down the km marks where each segment starts so I knew when to do my efforts
Thanks! It is amazing how many people are not doing these rides correctly. Do you happen to know if you do the baseline ride twice does the better performance become your "baseline" that they use to compare to the final ride or do they just use the first ride you do as your baseline?
Yes, if you are looking at being evaluated for the contract, they will take your best performance. Additionally, the greater weight will be placed on the finish line ride for obvious reasons. For non-pro contenders, it's just a matter of personal review and comparison, it won't update your FTP values unless you do a 20 minute breakthrough segment that it picks up as a PR. There's no harm in doing these rides multiple times 🙂
Great video. I did the standard ride yesterday and the guidance says that the Zwift companion app gives you further information on your profile and performance when compared to your age group for the short medium and long segments. I didn’t see any sign of it at all. Any suggestions for what to do ?
So I can tell you where it is, but I'm not seeing a full breakdown. Not sure if the feature isn't fully implemented or if you need to do the finish line ride first. To find it, at the top of the companion app click the white ribbon under the "riding now" then click the Academy road stripe. That will list your results and progress. You can click onto each segment to get results. The only thing that's showing now are best efforts. I suspect after the end, you'll get a better breakdown showing your comparative results and profile.... Or Zwift will completely whiff and not complete the feature 🤣🤣
I have not done the baseline test yet. Still in the process of finishing a 15 Day stage ride on Fulgaz. But i intend to do it and will have to watch this video again as I like to be prepared. That said I think Zwift is getting lazy with respect to event organization. From what I have read they have basically handed over the reins of organised racing to WRL and from what i am reading here they should do the same for the academy because they are failing at the start line or should we say baseline. I appreciate unlike a workout where everyone is in sync it may be more difficult to get a count down per individual before the efforts, but surely a couple of markers saying "500m to effort" "250m to effort" "50m to effort" would solve all the issues people have had and should not be too difficult? Racers will be racers, so many Zwifters racing for no glory, I just let them go, but I know it riles up some people :-)
cereal bars ftw :x
Great video, but completely unclear what all the big red acronyms mean, DOMS = SST? I've been cycling for a good few years but I have no clue.
Delayed onset muscle soreness and sweet spot training.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Thanks! I've read up on sweet spot vs. polarized but I haven't heard of DOMS. I'll do some reading.
As always Sarah, this all makes perfect sense. Remember though how dumb and over competitive some zwifters are and your advice to them is like Pushing Water Uphill With a Fork.
🤣 love that analogy.
Using powerups and differents bike frame/wheels between the 2 rides Will change the results too!
It will, but its negligible. You want to compare power execution rather than pure monies and seconds. If you do a segment in the same time but your normalized/average power is higher, that indicates improvement, just like riding outside.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Thanks! Anyway i wont do the baseline 'cause i already know where I suck! :D
Good info… 🍎
this was super helpful! i'm brand new to zwift (as in got an indoor trainer last week) and definitely got swept up in all the excitement, lights and banners for the academy.
perhaps a silly question, but are there any negatives with doing the baseline ride twice? once as a scout of the course and then again for real? (i'm not under any illusions i'm a contender for any prizes)
Not at all do it as often as you want. It doesn't affect your progress, I actually quit mine before the last segment because I was comfortable with it, but even if you finish, you're only credited for completion on the first. Comparing the two rides is manual process, so Zwift doesn't crunch those numbers and won't get screened up by extra data 🙂
I basically did a 60 min TT race
I made that mistake . Did the standard . Not going for the contract. But my take away , I did the standard in under 45 min. Avg pwr 227 😂😂. I am 50 years old
WINNING! Lol, I blame Zwift, the natural inclination is to give it everything you have and go for position and a higher normalized power. If people knew they were KOM hunting, they wouldn't be "ego riding" I am sure. 🤣
I did the baseline ride and it was a complete joke in terms of how it was organised. There were no instructions whatsoever. If you do a normal workout or a training plan there are instructions about what to do (like cycle at 240 Watts or keep cadence at 105) ,when to do it (new interval coming up in 30 seconds), how long to do it (we're halfway there) why you do it (to improve this or that) etc. I expected this on the baseline ride but there was none. Zero, nada, nothing. I was sort of waiting for an explanation or instructions but they never came. I saw the whole bunch going full out so I did that too. I had heard about the segments but had now idea how and what. I saw the segment timer coming up twice but was not sure when they would start exactly. Let alone when they would end. One segment I missed completely.
You might say that I should have read "the paragraphs" beforehand, but that should not be neccesary. When I was finished, I got my Total time, distance covered and the watts I produced. No mention of any segments.
All in all it was really bad. I don't mind because it is still a workout. But I can't believe that Zwift announces this as a major yearly event, yet put no effort in it to make it worthwhile.
I understand that the event design was not great, but I won't agree that people should not be required to spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes. This program is something people should be taking on with purpose and understanding, not blindly checking boxes to get unlocks. You wouldn't go into a workout without reviewing the graph or objective for the day, why would you go into an assessment without the same due diligence? Setting this up like a workout defeats the purpose of what is being evaluated. You don't want to go in with a power objective, you want to simulate different power systems and react to terrain and variability as it would present itself in the real world. Additional arches or warning markers would have been all that was needed to close the loop on the confusion. A rider could read the overview and look for banners and put in their efforts. Pretty simple. Zwift definitely dropped the ball there.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic "I understand that the event design was not great"
LOL, "Was not great" is a bit of an understatement. It was abysmal.
"but I won't agree that people should not be required to spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes."
Well, I beg to differ. Things should self-explanatory or they should be explained. I work in UX and UI and if users do not understand what they are supposed to do the UI has failed, not the user. To make sure that things works as we want it to work, we test this on actual users. You would be surprised what difficulties average users encounter.
And even if we would agree that we should spend 2 minutes reading the ride notes: I did not see them.
"This program is something people should be taking on with purpose and understanding, not blindly checking boxes to get unlocks. You wouldn't go into a workout without reviewing the graph or objective for the day,"
If you go to the Zwift Academy page on the zwift.com page, you'll see the graphs for the workout. There is none for the baseline ride. No explanation on what to expect, no “notes” , no nothing.
“Additional arches or warning markers would have been all that was needed to close the loop on the confusion. “
Maybe but there were none. I did see 500M markers in random places (AFTER the sprint, for people riding anticlockwise??) but I had no idea what they meant.
“Zwift definitely dropped the ball there.”
Yes indeed.
@@eagerbob There really is no need to be aggressive or haughty here. If you don't agree that people need to put in a minimal amount of effort to understand something, you're free to your opinion. But, this program isn't about UI, so your appeal to false authority working in development is irrelevant. The academy program is not about the "game" it's about training. When you embark on a training program, you do the requisite research and planning. This is the problem with stumbling into structured training downstream from Zwift. People are too concerned with having information spoon-fed to them and become passive participants in "plans" that lead them nowhere. Xert and TrainerRoad are the only two platforms that come close to that sort of model, and that is their focus and why there is no gamification there. Even in those cases, you need to READ, understand, and be prepared.
"If you go to the Zwift Academy page on the zwift.com page, you'll see the graphs for the workout. There is none for the baseline ride. No explanation on what to expect, no “notes” , no nothing." This is just factually inaccurate. I linked the Zwift academy details for the baseline rides directly from the website. I also screen-captured them right in the video. The details are all right there, clear as day. They are also right at the top of the event manager in the companion app, front row center. Most people use the app to join the ride. The instructions for ANY event are always in the same place. If you didn't see them, so be it. But it's not because Zwift "hid" them.
If you feel aggrieved by my statements here and Zwift's execution, that's fine. I have routinely in my videos been HIGHLY critical of Zwift for poor execution and communication with its customer base. That said, I will not absolve people of personal responsibility and diligence when there is enough information available to do the ride correctly if you avail yourself of it. Ideal, no. Available, yes.
I think it is appropriate that the user should need to read the instructions only once and then be able to execute the event to the best of their ability. Recon rides are great, but they should not be necessary. There should be no need to consult RUclips channels to successfully navigate the event although watching Sarah's RUclips videos are often a highlight of my day. Etc. I think we can all agree that the baseline event failed miserably at achieving this level of performance. Perhaps if Zwift set their expectations to those specified by @eagerbob they MIGHT achieve a level of execution specified by Sarah. It appears to me that Zwift has a function they use to deliver their product to customers. It is: Customer Needs or Desires x (0.75) = Product released to customer. In the case of the baseline ride the conversion factor is closer to (0.50). Just one man's opinion, of course.
383w it's the max can reach with tacx blue matic. IM sure i can reach much more power but whatever...
Ugh that's a bummer, I take it you're spinning out or getting some wheel slip. The big three you can focus on is clamp pressure, tire - getting either a trainer tire or old slick, clean the tire and roller surface with isopropyl to help with slip, and a slightly lower pressure may help - and gearing. Most people have an 11T in the back but if you are on a 1X setup, your front chainring might not be big enough - 50T to 56T is best to avoid running out of gears.
I hit the buttons but only got a 10% rise in my FTP . Do I have to pay for the other 20% I think the science is off 😩
🤣 Teddy and Kitten have a lot of 'splaining to do!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic I hold them accountable
@@jamesstevens9354 😂😂
I like RUclips Science 👍😂
I was hoping it would give me some insight after doing the ride. Also it doesn’t adjust your training according to how you did.
It would be nice to get those slices and insights without having to scrub the graph. The program just isn't there in its capability. In terms of adaptive training, I'm not sure that this is the best structure for it, even if the program was capable, that would likely be better executed in a workout mode that put you in free ride for a fixed time period and gave you baseline test values rather than segments within a ride (which is, in part, to simulate real world variability and the rest to facilitate the social element).
That said, these are all canned workouts, there aren't the appropriate variants to cover all the permutations that might come out of a baseline ride, and given most of the workouts reside firmly in zone 5 and below -which will be more centralized around FTP - the baseline and finish line rides are more for you to see the impact on different power systems, not just FTP.
I thought that too - that the segments were comparable to The Sufferfest's 4DP.
Such a helpful video, thank you.
Sarah it's clear it's simple unfortunately most the Zwifters are too.....🙄
Keep up the good work👍
I gotta be honest this whole baseline test is a mess. No one knows how to do this or where the kom's are. I knew the 3rd one started at 13.2 miles but I never saw the lights on the road like I saw in the first two. I'm thinking the workouts will be much better. I will get better times on the finishline ride just from knowing the kom's
Agreed. The workouts are completely structured so very straightforward, but I wish they would have marked the segments much better than they did. Not that people would follow the instructions, but even those who do, it still gets confusing when you are looking for the segments. The scouting ride was critical for me and I have been on the platform for six and a half years.
yep was so annoyed on my baseline ride today, everyone alpha ridering throughout to prove what? these should not be group rides as they only matter individually, its like saying you can only do a workout in a group ride.
I can see competing for the competition in the group for segments as being valuable to eek out that extra 5%, but Zwift should put some prompts right out of the gate in the first 60-90 seconds. "This is not a race. Finish results are not relevant, direct your focus at the segments ONLY." Gives everyone a chance to ease off and recalibrate.
F.ck baseline, EGO is the most important here LOL
This is Zwift dammit!! 🤣🤣🤣
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Then it is TWICE more important LOL
First? God I’m sad.
Guess zwift is relying on riders knowing where the start neon light lines are across the road with glowing cone on the side of the road all the way to the finish arch. Made it through the first workout. It is a shock if your not used to: over/unders or how workouts go on zwift or do not have a recent FTP.
Zwift Academy and newer riders. I see a few issues with Zwift Academy:
1. Newer riders might not have much endurance but might have strong legs. The 20 Vs 60 min FTP test will not have the same results if endurance is low.
2. Newer rides may not know how to pace for an FTP so end up blowing up (burning all their matches) before the end or leave to much in the tank providing poor FTP numbers which are used for the training.
3. The baseline test had no analysis with it and as you train there is nothing I have found to indicate progress. Other than you completed a training ride. I am hoping at the end when I take the baseline again there will be something to let me know what the numbers mean.
4. The EGR mode is great for training rides, but finding the right power on that crazy hilly group “Recovery ride” is not easy for someone new. Even using lots of gears a heavier rider on those hills will blow past recovery power. And with all rider levels together being dropped to the very back is not much of a group ride for the new guy.
I think that is enough for this post. I hope Zwift reads these posts.
#zwift