I wish I would have seen this video sooner. I am a former builder for black rain ordnance. I worked for them as an armorer/builder for their production guns as well as customer warranty issues. First and foremost. Black Rain sources their barrels and bolt carrier groups from Anderson and Bear Creek Arsenal. While working for Black Rain, upon every barrel shipment I as a builder was instructed to line the barrels up on a table, squirt oil in to them, and take a brass brush on a drill to the chambers. I was also instructed to drill out the gas ports with a drill bit. Now I, as somebody who takes pride in their work, took care to make sure the drill bit did not come in contact with the inside and opposite side of the rifling inside the barrel when drilling out these gas ports as to not affect accuracy or durability. The president of the company, Justin Harvell. Examined me taking time on said barrels when walking through the manufacturing side. Justin proceeded to tell me that I was taking too long and that he didn’t care if the rifling got a “scuff or two” and demanded that I press through without care or attention to detail. With bolt carrier groups and barrels now being subject to the price of these rifles. I will now move on to the rails/barrel nuts. When installing barrel nuts I was given no instruction as to torque spec. “Force the gas tube to line up with the barrel nut” was the general guidelines given. As an experienced armorer this is obviously not the correct route for assembly. Furthermore, the screws that lock the rail up with the barrel nut are “torqued” with dewalt drills. Yes. Drills. There is absolutely no torque spec for the screws. And there is zero loctite applied to ensure said screws do not come loose. In addition, further in to my employment with Black Rain, I was asked to work an event out of state that I wish not to disclose at this time in fear that I may be sued or pressed with litigations if Black Rain were to find out my identity. (Yes I am commenting under an alias) Before working this event I was instructed by CEO Justin Harvell to tell any inquiring customers at the Black Rain booth that ALL parts are made in house in Neosho Missouri as well as stringent QC measures enacted that absolutely never took place. Black Rain made ZERO parts in house and outsourced everything from the absolute cheapest manufacturers that they could attain. Bear creek arsenal BCG’s and barrels came in and were laser engraved with their logo as a facade to mark their parts/guns up at a premium price. Further more. Before working this event, the sales manager called me in to his office, among every other employee that was scheduled to work the out of state event, and advised us that Black Rain was unwilling to pay us our hourly wage for hours worked at this event. We were instructed to come up with a “dollar amount” that made us feel okay with working the event in order to prevent paying overtime hours while away from home. As an armorer making $11 an hour I was instructed that the “hourly wage” needed to fall below current pay standards in order to keep overtime down. My own personal transgressions aside regarding this. I would like to inform the AR community that when purchasing a Black Rain rifle, you are purchasing, at best, a sub par, budget rifle, that’s marketed with a cool name and brand logo, horrible QC, and bad business practice not only to the consumer but to employees as well. The cerekote options they offer are about the only thing they can get right. I have long since left the company and would advise anybody who values the money they work for to be spent with any other AR company that produces legit rifles. Although this comment was long. I hope any and all who have considered Black Rain as a potential purchase will steer clear. Feel free to message me regarding any other mal practice regarding Black Rain.
Great info. Thanks for the comment. Bought one for 900. I do like the look of these rifles. With a couple upgrades, might be able to make it a top quality rifle without paying the 2k. I plan on building a top quality rifle first. But glad these videos were out there and good to come across this info.
@ayitsyaboi maybe with a little research, I could have saved myself $900. But I'm buying a new rifle or gonna assemble another one. But it's only $900. Will just work a few more days and get it back. If it still shoots then it does exactly what it's intended to. I can worry about the other stuff with my next build. But I plan to get a 7.62 next. DD6 or DD5. But I've seen some BCCM I like too. So will have to weigh the odds and try to get something the looks and feels good to me.
@@markpaul2833 nah I wasn't trying to be judgey or anything, it just seems like there are better options for starters that would cost less than trying to fix that one. You're essentially starting from scratch, anyway but if yours is a good example there's no harm. Upgrade what/when you can and eventually you'll have the build you want in the end.
Respectfully sir, please stop apologizing for giving us exactly what we want, 2 hours of high yield, professional commentary from an expert. To those who may complain: If you can't watch it in one sitting, imagine SOTAR dropped six separate 20 minute videos at once. A truly glorious day. But do not bite the hand that feeds you. Thank you Mr. and Mrs. SOTAR.
So those mp marked bolts are the same one radical uses in their $400 budget rifles. I bought one of the radical rifles to put a binary trigger in for a range toy and it chewed the bolt up rapidly. I can't believe black rain uses the same bolt in a duty machine gun 😂
@@montevallomustangmy rf15 was what taught me not all ars are just as good just because they line up on a spec sheet. Didn't even bother sending it back for repairs, just sold it and moved on with the valuable life lesson.
Lowest bid. The purchase was approved by the bean counters, not by the people whose lives depend on them. It's the exact same reason 9mm is chosen when departments purchase the guns and ammo vs. .40 or .45 when the officers purchase the guns and ammo.
@@robertfrost8531Why do you imagine units with budgets for KACs and 40K nightvision and all the hand-chosen gear and training they could want have also switched from 45s to 9s?
Watching an expert explain complex and inter-dependant systems in such detail in a manner than people that have never ever touched an AR-15 platform can understand is extremely impressive.
This is what happens when the wrong people make horrible choices for Patrol Issued Carbines . Or just not consulting the right people before the decision is made . Plenty of other Manufacturers out there who are significantly cheaper that actually work as advertised. I honestly do mot know why Agencies are not using SOLGW because of their Warranty. SOLGW , Centurion or Colt would be my main choices . Colt , and Centurion will always be my 2 go too rigs . Colt has not let me down in 17 years and Centurion has not let me down over the past 12 years . Ive gotten a lot of crap over the years for saying Colt is the gold standard . .. Absolutely phenomenal video bro .thanks
Seen new LE colts with background castle nuts. The Colt name being synonymous with quality is definitely date dependent. New colts seem okay but for a minute there you had a good chance of getting a nonfunctional gun new when they’re supposed to be test fired.
@@ShepherdOfTheSilkies I'm talking about TDP Colts . Have 0 experience with any Colt made after 2016.. Most of my Colts are from 1980s - 2012 time period .
To be fair, Sons cannot make guns fast enough to meet demand. And while they apparently prioritize LE contracts I'd be plenty of agencies don't buy from them purely due to lead time.
@@privatezim3637 there is only a handful of companies who can mass produce while maintaining that known quality . Colt in their prime GWOT days was cranking out around 300 M4 / M4A1 Carbines per shift and there was 3 shifts . FNMI can also mass produce . To my knowledge Colt / Colt Canada , FNMI , and LMT are the only ones who can mass produce 500K order . Sig might be able too but still unknown how well their quality will be . TDP Colts and FNMI are pretty polished when it comes to mass production . LMT can also mass produce but if they do they will not be able to maintain Commercial market and just have to focus on Mil sales . I seriously doubt HK , Geissele or DD could even do 25k order for complete Carbines . HK did 19k order for the M27 but they had 3 years to do it . Whereas Colt or FNMI had under 5 years to do 400K order . No way would BCM be able to do anywhere close to those numbers . I've heard Hodge Defense has been getting quite a few US DOD contracts but have 0 clue what that amount of Carbines is .. I have a buddy who in LE . They switched from Colt to DD about 5 years ago . They have little over 50 officers for the whole department. They went with DDM4A1s and SWAT Officers got issued an extra DD MK18 Upper . They are Semi Auto Carbines . I'll have to ask him how long it took them to fill that order . For all I know they might of been waiting a year lol.. I'd be curious to know what's the most used Carbine in LE across the USA . I bet theres metric crap ton still using Colt . Some might still be using Colt Canada lol. I do know the FBI mainly uses Geisseles and HRT might still be using 416s . I guess Federal LE is a whole other ball game when it comes to issued Rigs..
I have actually stopped into their store in southern MO and they are complete assholes. Don't feel bad when their shitty rifles do so poorly on this channel :)
When I was younger I always wanted to be a gunsmith but after losing partial use of my right arm I had to give up that dream. But God has blessed me by letting me live through being wounded in combat.
As someone who spent 29 years both in military and law enforcement running similar platforms I learned more in this video than ever. Outstanding! Your ability to teach is commendable. Of course your knowledge is exceptional but your ability to hold my interest and get your point across was the key element. Thank you sir and thanks to your wife in filming. I look forward to more content.
I love watching these videos to learn as much as I can about the AR15 platform. You seem to know every possible detail and spec of the platform. You’re the only one on RUclips thats sharing such extensive detailed information about the AR specs with close up and clear video so we know exactly what you are talking about. Your wife does a great job with the camera by the way! I’ve learned so much from your videos so thank u both. I just wish I had all those tools you have so I can check all the specs on my AR parts like you do. We all appreciate what your doing.
Your channel is amazing, sir. This one video answered probably 95% of every question I’ve ever had about my modern sporting rifle. Looks like I’m going to be purchasing some new tools in the near future. Do you have a recommended supplier for your tools? Seriously, great channel, excellent camera work, excellent explanation of issues and how to fix them. Thank for taking the time to make these videos.
Such an opportunity to be brought into this process. I started watching BCG autopsies and now I can’t get enough. There’s no substitute to learning from competence. Videos are long, but everything he teaches is then in context. Juice is 100% worth the squeeze. Thanks SOTAR. Wish I could come to a course.
THIS. While this video did a number of thing's for me...here's three of them. 1. Not to second guess your own instinct (there are exceptions to every rule and this one requires at minimum, prior commonsense knowledge preferably through experience) to gain that "instinct" 2. Increased confidence in my own thought process. 3. Finding out how wonderfully soothing these video's are to listen too while falling asleep at night. 👍👍👍
Only thing that slightly bothers me is that he doesn't have a checklist to go off of. He has missed gauges and dimensions before. He flip flops. He will be gauging one thing, suddenly remember to gauge another thing, leaving other parts laying.
@@davisjames8484I do have a checklist and it's 328 points of inspection. I use the checklist when I'm working on guns without distraction (not teaching on video). I don't follow a script or checklist when I'm making video content because it slows down the content and throws me off my teaching role. When I make mistakes they stay in the video. If that bothers you, then don't watch.
Another great video. Interesting and informative. After watching the majority of SOTAR’s content, it’s high time I appreciate whomever is behind the camera. It’s so good that the viewer doesn’t even think about it. So, to the pro videographer, thank you and well done!
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle She’s excellent. Always knows where to go with the camera. Like it’s choreographed prior to shooting, but that seems unlikely with a 2 hr video. So she clearly knows your process and the platform. Again, she’s great!
One of my reasons for loving weaponry is the mechanical engineering involved to make them work. You provide the most in-depth information and reasoning for the how's and why's guns either work or they don't. Your obvious knowledge, experience, and expertise shows in the quality of your work and detail. I have no idea how long you have been doing this but if you don't train other armorers, you definitely should. The shooting world needs more truly qualified folks putting their hands on weapons. The long videos are great and I learned more in the last 2 1:59:31 hours than I have in the last 2 years. Thanks for your time and effort.
I have never seen someone be as thorough as you are, but it makes sense to be that way. I have learned so much from you. Thank you for your videos, I would love to have you go over my rifle .
I really enjoyed the two-hour video. It really flew by so fast, and it was really educational and enjoyable. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this with us.
STOP apologizing. Nice to see someone else work instead of me. Its calming. You would love all the German Wiha drivers and Wiha bits I have. Nothing better IMO.
Chad and Donna, I have been watching your videos for a very long time now and this by far is the absolute BEST one that you guys have ever produced !!! C’mon Chad, Fast Forward ?? Are you kidding ?? I couldn’t even bring myself to pause this video for a minute in order to go and pee !!!! 🤣 Donna, your camera work is outstanding!! Keep up the GREAT work Mr. and Mrs. SOTAR !!!! We Love the long videos!! Chad , please don’t apologize to us for anything !! God Bless you both and Happy Holidays !
Thank you so much for the kind and encouraging words. I get a lot of complaints about my work and sometimes that creeps into what I create. May God bless you and your family my friend. Happy Thanksgiving as well.
1:34:22 - your son may have “walked off” with it also... 😅😂 Great 👍🏼👍🏼 Video first time on the channel & I throughly enjoyed it. I’ve noticed that quite a few channels have their “wife” behind the camera 🎥 as well... My Hats 🎩 off to you Both...! ✌🏼
Least relevant comment I can make to an excellent educational video: You said, "My youngest son took one of my bits." My Dad used to say, "Well I guess the Tool Fairy took it" when I pled innocent to knowledge of the crime. 🤣
Thank you for the video, Chad! Your videos are always very informative. Your wife or son, whoever is the camera person is doing an amazing job! I wish you did have a fixed camera from above at your vice and your bullet trap.
This man is the best at what he does, not only does he do these very informative and in depth videos, he also teaches classes. Hes a great dude, like and subscribe!
That bit about using a torque wrench on the handguard screws because one loosens as you tighten the opposite screw is absolutely true in terms of cars, motorcycles, small equipment like lawn mowers etc. I actually never even considered it when working on guns but I will now. Thanks for the awesome tip.
That's the biggest thing I took away from this video... you built a full-auto weapon and didn't pin the gas block? Tell me you don't care about getting it right without saying you don't care about getting it right.
@@joquin4618 "top tier" BRO rifles should come with a singing halmark card featuring a sample of DJ Khaled saying "congratulations! You played yourself!"
Thanks for showing the long form progression of troubleshooting these for an agency. These being duty use make me scratch my head. You may have very well saved a life of someone in blue.
Thank you for these uploads. I’m struggling to learn from a 71 year old gunsmith right now and i’m not complaining about that, but your videos are so refreshing after being lectured for an hour about how semi-auto firearms are less accurate than any other action and that 5.56 was designed by the army corps of engineers to wound and not kill because that means it takes 2-3 guys out of the fight opposed to one. Every session is painful but i’ll take free knowledge anywhere i can get it. Videos like yours seriously help me sift through and dispell the fudlore nonsense. Thanks again
WHO IN TF BOUGHT BLACK RAIN ORDNANCE GUNS FOR AN LE DEPARTMENT??!??! Yes, all caps were necessary. They should be fired and be forced to pay the taxpayers back for such a reckless disregard for wasting their money.
I have no idea what "agency" this was, but I know a lot of small towns in rural areas have cops who buy NFA items "for the dept", but they just keep them at home for flexing on their friends and for fun. I really don't know what "agency" that isn't part of the military would actually need anything full-auto.
Great content. I wish more people were interested in learning this aspect of firearms, instead of just watching people shoot guns that they will never own. Thank you!
But they're trained! One thing I've learned over the years is just b/c someone works with guns doesn't mean they know a damn thing about them. I work for a well known AR-15 manufacturer. Most of the people I work with don't know jack shit. Even the engineers don't know the intricate details of firearm design. They're mechanical engineers, not firearm designers. And they often just work on one specific aspect of a design, whereas someone like J.M.B. was an actual inventor and firearm designer. I can tell just by looking at the tolerances on prints I get if the designer knows anything about guns and gun parts. Most of the time they spec way too tight of a tolerance on things that don't actually matter.
For a time, Black Rain Ordnance AR-15s were all that were available in my area. I am so glad I decided not to buy one just for a cool paint job, now that SAR has done two different videos where he found a number of manufacturing problems with them. Thank you for all of your hard work and the information you have provided.
Wishing I had viewed this video before I attempted building my first AR. Now I am sitting here with it in pieces, checking every hole, spring, screw, washer, bolt, pins, etc. Thank you so much for the in depth workings of this platform...amazing stuff!
I went to school tonight and I wish to thank you ! Outstanding informative video . I learned things I always wanted to know . One of the best learning videos I have seen .
Once again SOTAR proves why this channel is the best for this kind of info. That was amazing, Chad. Textbook, point by point breakdown of every part and it's potential for failure, and the remedy for each one. Thank you, sir. We are in your debt. Sorry it took so long to get to this one.
Love these videos because it helps me diagnose problems with my first AR, which is a piston operated 6.5 Grendel. First problem I had was on the very second round. Failure to extract. Chamber had so many burrs and the extractor took a bite out of the rim! On STEEL CASE ammo! The RSO at the range oiled my rifle's chamber liberally for me and it started operating wonderfully.
@@LRRPFco52 You are absolutely correct. Heavily oiled chamber is a big no-no. Just another example of a know-it-all at the gun range, admittedly trying to be helpful, but ultimately showing his ignorance.
@@doktorfaustus Sorry, I'm a bit of a new shooter. How else could my failure to extract have been fixed? The burrs on the chamber took purchase on the steel cases and would have caused another failure to extract if I had continued. Thanks in advance.
@@themightiestofbooshes9443 a gunsmith could ream the chamber, with appropriate tools. I'm afraid there's not a safe & reliable "quick fix" for a chamber that bad.
Chamber should be gauged thoroughly to see if it meets minimum standards, cast, cast measured (for oversize). If dimensions are safe then a flex hone and polish will usually fix the issues unless it's really bad.
I was going to watch this video passively while working on something else, but couldn't stop watching. Awesome channel, very educational! Keep up the great work and content.
After watching to the end, these 2 rifles are very poorly maintained when it comes to the gas block and the handguard. This is a good show of who we have working in our agencies. There really is no excuse to let a gun get like this. I have to say it is unusual to see black rain ordinance parts on a full auto gun that is used for a professional role like these. I would say the users of these are younger men or women that have minimal knowledge of these. I guess having over 30 years experience with ar15 An m16 along with other weapons and being in the army makes me a little bit hard on people that let a gun end up like this. Great video. Thanks for it.
Damn, who would have ever foreseen that a rifle whose manufacturer uses a cartoonish biohazard symbol for a logo and whose name abbreviates literally to "bro" slopped together unprofessional parts for a sworn officer's rifle? Imagine that.
This is my favorite channel ever. You make everything seem perfect and had me go back and do a lot to even my high end rifles. Now, my buddies give me their guns to fix all the time lmao. But mine have been FLAWLESS. thanks for all of this knowledge, now to get a bunch of gauges lol
Really cool video. Do you think these rifles were purchased as MG's or do you think a local armorer preformed the modifications? I wish there was more MG content out there because it is always cool to see a breakdown of the firearm operation, maintenance, etc... (edit, I read the description. Ignore the question)
I would never give my LEO's B.R.O rifles. What were they thinking? There's so many better options that are in the same or similar price range. But I'd much rather them spend the extra 500 and get a quality rifle.
Its probably a very small department with 2-3 officers. Which is even worse b/c its not that much money to equip 3 guys with good equipment. But in reality, they probably don't need rifles and damn sure don't need full auto ones.
@@oldscratch3535 Put another way: Anyone who lacks the knowledge to avoid BRO as a "duty" rifle I don't trust to have sufficient training to carry a select-fire weapon into tense situations where innocent civilians may be present.
@@doktorfaustus All I see with giving officers full auto is a empty mag and friendly,s being shot. No need for full auto. Good trigger, silencer and lots of range time.
I love how scientific this all is. No brand bias or bashing going in, just a good faith fair assessment of the guts as you would any premium rifle. Thanks for the hard work uploading all this valuable information for us mere mortals to consume.
Thank you big time for the quality content! I love the detail and thoroughness of your videos! Could you say who makes the gas block alignment tool you used? Thank you
Excellent video! The length of the video is very appreciated. It was fascinating numerous times throughout. The main issue I have with many of your detailed videos, such as this one, is that they end up costing me money - more money on parts, additional tools, gauges, loctite products, etc. I kid, I kid!😁 Thank you so much for posting your videos and sharing your knowledge! Please continue the great work!!
I got a battle damage/rebuilt M4 from direct support in Iraq. They put the castle nut on backwards and didn't stake it. It jammed up at the clearing barrel coming back from a mission where we had no contact. They fixed it quickly and correctly, but I never did find who it was that screwed it up in the first place.
@@ecleveland1 I must disagree. Granted, taste is subjective, so I shall say *for me* something like a quad rail is "tacticool," even if the added bulk and weight probably lacks practical benefit; an MP5 is "tacticool," even though it is a very dated design compared to modern alternatives. These BRO rifles are not tacticool. They have a mall ninja vibe that just comes across as cheap and sophomoric.
I love firearms, not because of the danger, because of the way the work, the Engineering behind it, every bolt, screw small component has a function and a reason to be there. That's why I would like to become a gunsmith or an expert in the functionality of the firearms.
I'm still blown away at how bad these guns are. And I also wonder if the "armorer" who added the sprinco orange springs to the guns was just being lazy
@@IvanIvanoff-d4p quite clearly it's garbage. These guns didn't even pass minimum basic functional requirements like torquing the handguard screws. There are ZERO valid reasons for this.
My wife is my best friend. She is my biggest fan, and I am hers. She is the one who has motivated me to become what I am. This RUclips channel wouldn't exist without her.
if these are 'factory', BRO is.. eh. if the agency has an armorer and they handled these to put them (or allow them to wind up in) this condition, that armorer is lazy or meh.
@@doktorfaustusI'm not joking. The Agencies Armorer did not want me to get my hands on these guns to inspect them. Said there is nothing wrong with them or the other 4 units they have. He is B.R.O. trained. B.R.O. teaches Armorer's Classes.
I watched the whole video and will save it for reference. Have been building for 3 years and this is great reference video. Also, your wife has is a great camera operator and have patience of a saint. Many thanks.
I wish I would have seen this video sooner.
I am a former builder for black rain ordnance. I worked for them as an armorer/builder for their production guns as well as customer warranty issues. First and foremost. Black Rain sources their barrels and bolt carrier groups from Anderson and Bear Creek Arsenal. While working for Black Rain, upon every barrel shipment I as a builder was instructed to line the barrels up on a table, squirt oil in to them, and take a brass brush on a drill to the chambers. I was also instructed to drill out the gas ports with a drill bit. Now I, as somebody who takes pride in their work, took care to make sure the drill bit did not come in contact with the inside and opposite side of the rifling inside the barrel when drilling out these gas ports as to not affect accuracy or durability. The president of the company, Justin Harvell. Examined me taking time on said barrels when walking through the manufacturing side. Justin proceeded to tell me that I was taking too long and that he didn’t care if the rifling got a “scuff or two” and demanded that I press through without care or attention to detail.
With bolt carrier groups and barrels now being subject to the price of these rifles. I will now move on to the rails/barrel nuts.
When installing barrel nuts I was given no instruction as to torque spec. “Force the gas tube to line up with the barrel nut” was the general guidelines given. As an experienced armorer this is obviously not the correct route for assembly.
Furthermore, the screws that lock the rail up with the barrel nut are “torqued” with dewalt drills. Yes. Drills. There is absolutely no torque spec for the screws. And there is zero loctite applied to ensure said screws do not come loose.
In addition, further in to my employment with Black Rain, I was asked to work an event out of state that I wish not to disclose at this time in fear that I may be sued or pressed with litigations if Black Rain were to find out my identity. (Yes I am commenting under an alias)
Before working this event I was instructed by CEO Justin Harvell to tell any inquiring customers at the Black Rain booth that ALL parts are made in house in Neosho Missouri as well as stringent QC measures enacted that absolutely never took place. Black Rain made ZERO parts in house and outsourced everything from the absolute cheapest manufacturers that they could attain. Bear creek arsenal BCG’s and barrels came in and were laser engraved with their logo as a facade to mark their parts/guns up at a premium price.
Further more. Before working this event, the sales manager called me in to his office, among every other employee that was scheduled to work the out of state event, and advised us that Black Rain was unwilling to pay us our hourly wage for hours worked at this event. We were instructed to come up with a “dollar amount” that made us feel okay with working the event in order to prevent paying overtime hours while away from home. As an armorer making $11 an hour I was instructed that the “hourly wage” needed to fall below current pay standards in order to keep overtime down.
My own personal transgressions aside regarding this. I would like to inform the AR community that when purchasing a Black Rain rifle, you are purchasing, at best, a sub par, budget rifle, that’s marketed with a cool name and brand logo, horrible QC, and bad business practice not only to the consumer but to employees as well. The cerekote options they offer are about the only thing they can get right. I have long since left the company and would advise anybody who values the money they work for to be spent with any other AR company that produces legit rifles.
Although this comment was long. I hope any and all who have considered Black Rain as a potential purchase will steer clear.
Feel free to message me regarding any other mal practice regarding Black Rain.
Great info. Thanks for the comment. Bought one for 900. I do like the look of these rifles. With a couple upgrades, might be able to make it a top quality rifle without paying the 2k.
I plan on building a top quality rifle first. But glad these videos were out there and good to come across this info.
@@markpaul2833 at $900 you're throwing money away trying to polish a turd.
@@maaadcheddar what's done is done.
@ayitsyaboi maybe with a little research, I could have saved myself $900. But I'm buying a new rifle or gonna assemble another one. But it's only $900. Will just work a few more days and get it back. If it still shoots then it does exactly what it's intended to. I can worry about the other stuff with my next build. But I plan to get a 7.62 next. DD6 or DD5. But I've seen some BCCM I like too. So will have to weigh the odds and try to get something the looks and feels good to me.
@@markpaul2833 nah I wasn't trying to be judgey or anything, it just seems like there are better options for starters that would cost less than trying to fix that one. You're essentially starting from scratch, anyway but if yours is a good example there's no harm. Upgrade what/when you can and eventually you'll have the build you want in the end.
Respectfully sir, please stop apologizing for giving us exactly what we want, 2 hours of high yield, professional commentary from an expert.
To those who may complain: If you can't watch it in one sitting, imagine SOTAR dropped six separate 20 minute videos at once. A truly glorious day.
But do not bite the hand that feeds you.
Thank you Mr. and Mrs. SOTAR.
Well said.
Totally agree.
Perfect comment.
@IanYager
Shout out to Black Rain Ordnance's QC Department for giving us this phenomenal learning opportunity 👍😉
Well said!
Yeah 2 days ago I happened to drive right past that place. Felt a little cringe in the force driving past it.
So those mp marked bolts are the same one radical uses in their $400 budget rifles. I bought one of the radical rifles to put a binary trigger in for a range toy and it chewed the bolt up rapidly. I can't believe black rain uses the same bolt in a duty machine gun 😂
@@montevallomustangmy rf15 was what taught me not all ars are just as good just because they line up on a spec sheet.
Didn't even bother sending it back for repairs, just sold it and moved on with the valuable life lesson.
😂 well put sir, very well put
Wow… as a certified AR15 armorer myself, I THOUGHT I knew these rifles as well as I ever could- until I saw this video. This is true mastery.
A 2-hour banger..phone is on silent and the office door is closed.
I'm trying to imagine why any person or agency would pick one of these out of all the quality rifles on the market
Marketing, probably. Lots of people don't do research.
Lowest bid. The purchase was approved by the bean counters, not by the people whose lives depend on them. It's the exact same reason 9mm is chosen when departments purchase the guns and ammo vs. .40 or .45 when the officers purchase the guns and ammo.
@@robertfrost8531Why do you imagine units with budgets for KACs and 40K nightvision and all the hand-chosen gear and training they could want have also switched from 45s to 9s?
Local agency within same county as manufacturer.
It's not their money, why care?
Watching an expert explain complex and inter-dependant systems in such detail in a manner than people that have never ever touched an AR-15 platform can understand is extremely impressive.
Heck, I have a lot of experience with the AR platform, and I still learn something new on every one of SOTAR's videos. A true artisan of the craft.
These longer formats with in-depth inspections are GREAT ! Thank you sir.
We don’t want to fast forward, we are all rewinding and making sure we get every detail. This is free class from a pro! Thank you
This is what happens when the wrong people make horrible choices for Patrol Issued Carbines .
Or just not consulting the right people before the decision is made . Plenty of other Manufacturers out there who are significantly cheaper that actually work as advertised. I honestly do mot know why Agencies are not using SOLGW because of their Warranty. SOLGW , Centurion or Colt would be my main choices .
Colt , and Centurion will always be my 2 go too rigs . Colt has not let me down in 17 years and Centurion has not let me down over the past 12 years . Ive gotten a lot of crap over the years for saying Colt is the gold standard . ..
Absolutely phenomenal video bro .thanks
Seen new LE colts with background castle nuts. The Colt name being synonymous with quality is definitely date dependent. New colts seem okay but for a minute there you had a good chance of getting a nonfunctional gun new when they’re supposed to be test fired.
@@ShepherdOfTheSilkies I'm talking about TDP Colts . Have 0 experience with any Colt made after 2016..
Most of my Colts are from 1980s - 2012 time period .
To be fair, Sons cannot make guns fast enough to meet demand. And while they apparently prioritize LE contracts I'd be plenty of agencies don't buy from them purely due to lead time.
@@privatezim3637 there is only a handful of companies who can mass produce while maintaining that known quality . Colt in their prime GWOT days was cranking out around 300 M4 / M4A1 Carbines per shift and there was 3 shifts . FNMI can also mass produce .
To my knowledge Colt / Colt Canada , FNMI , and LMT are the only ones who can mass produce 500K order . Sig might be able too but still unknown how well their quality will be . TDP Colts and FNMI are pretty polished when it comes to mass production . LMT can also mass produce but if they do they will not be able to maintain Commercial market and just have to focus on Mil sales . I seriously doubt HK , Geissele or DD could even do 25k order for complete Carbines . HK did 19k order for the M27 but they had 3 years to do it . Whereas Colt or FNMI had under 5 years to do 400K order .
No way would BCM be able to do anywhere close to those numbers .
I've heard Hodge Defense has been getting quite a few US DOD contracts but have 0 clue what that amount of Carbines is ..
I have a buddy who in LE . They switched from Colt to DD about 5 years ago . They have little over 50 officers for the whole department. They went with DDM4A1s and SWAT Officers got issued an extra DD MK18 Upper . They are Semi Auto Carbines . I'll have to ask him how long it took them to fill that order . For all I know they might of been waiting a year lol..
I'd be curious to know what's the most used Carbine in LE across the USA . I bet theres metric crap ton still using Colt . Some might still be using Colt Canada lol.
I do know the FBI mainly uses Geisseles and HRT might still be using 416s . I guess Federal LE is a whole other ball game when it comes to issued Rigs..
@@privatezim3637 I know a decent of agencies in MARYLAND use LWRCI because it's based out of Cambridge MARYLAND
Man, watching you dissect these guns is so therapeutic. Thanks for sharing the entire, unedited process
Camera person (wife?) does a great job filming.. No flinch/jump when test firing and zooms in/out perfect timing.. just an observation
That's me! 😊Thank you!
I think i might be a horrible person cuz I like watching how bad BRO guns are more than anything else on this channel.
maybe it has something to do with people not listening to you when you say their bad azz American flag looking rifle is 3k doll hair trash. 😅
You are not alone. It's entertaining just how bad these have been on the channel
I was lookin at one of these back in 2010, I’m glad I never bought it. I’ve literally never heard anything good about Black Rain.
@brian_b_music I have one and it runs good but I know I'll have to pull it apart and fix it one day
I have actually stopped into their store in southern MO and they are complete assholes. Don't feel bad when their shitty rifles do so poorly on this channel :)
When I was younger I always wanted to be a gunsmith but after losing partial use of my right arm I had to give up that dream. But God has blessed me by letting me live through being wounded in combat.
As someone who spent 29 years both in military and law enforcement running similar platforms I learned more in this video than ever. Outstanding! Your ability to teach is commendable. Of course your knowledge is exceptional but your ability to hold my interest and get your point across was the key element. Thank you sir and thanks to your wife in filming. I look forward to more content.
Any length video is great as long as the educational value is there. Yours never fail !!!!!!!!😊
I love watching these videos to learn as much as I can about the AR15 platform. You seem to know every possible detail and spec of the platform. You’re the only one on RUclips thats sharing such extensive detailed information about the AR specs with close up and clear video so we know exactly what you are talking about. Your wife does a great job with the camera by the way! I’ve learned so much from your videos so thank u both. I just wish I had all those tools you have so I can check all the specs on my AR parts like you do. We all appreciate what your doing.
One of the amazing things about this channel is the amount specialty tools, gauges and jigs. Phenomenal
There is something so enjoyable about watching these exam and autopsy videos. Plus the learning opportunities.
Your channel is amazing, sir. This one video answered probably 95% of every question I’ve ever had about my modern sporting rifle. Looks like I’m going to be purchasing some new tools in the near future. Do you have a recommended supplier for your tools? Seriously, great channel, excellent camera work, excellent explanation of issues and how to fix them. Thank for taking the time to make these videos.
Love the long videos! Thank you & the camera lady for another awesome & informative video!
You're welcome! 😊
I know the rate of fire is way too high and that port size is a major problem but every mag dump brought a smile to my face.
Such an opportunity to be brought into this process. I started watching BCG autopsies and now I can’t get enough. There’s no substitute to learning from competence. Videos are long, but everything he teaches is then in context. Juice is 100% worth the squeeze. Thanks SOTAR. Wish I could come to a course.
2 hours of my life well invested. Thank you for the quality content!
Watching your videos makes me want to buy a lot of tools and gauges.
Already bought better punches and some go no go gauges.
THIS. While this video did a number of thing's for me...here's three of them.
1. Not to second guess your own instinct (there are exceptions to every rule and this one requires at minimum, prior commonsense knowledge preferably through experience) to gain that "instinct"
2. Increased confidence in my own thought process.
3. Finding out how wonderfully soothing these video's are to listen too while falling asleep at night.
👍👍👍
Watching you measure everything is somehow mesmerizing and rewarding.
Only thing that slightly bothers me is that he doesn't have a checklist to go off of. He has missed gauges and dimensions before. He flip flops. He will be gauging one thing, suddenly remember to gauge another thing, leaving other parts laying.
@@davisjames8484I do have a checklist and it's 328 points of inspection. I use the checklist when I'm working on guns without distraction (not teaching on video). I don't follow a script or checklist when I'm making video content because it slows down the content and throws me off my teaching role. When I make mistakes they stay in the video.
If that bothers you, then don't watch.
Another great video. Interesting and informative. After watching the majority of SOTAR’s content, it’s high time I appreciate whomever is behind the camera. It’s so good that the viewer doesn’t even think about it. So, to the pro videographer, thank you and well done!
That's my wife. In my opinion, she is the star of the channel.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle She’s excellent. Always knows where to go with the camera. Like it’s choreographed prior to shooting, but that seems unlikely with a 2 hr video. So she clearly knows your process and the platform. Again, she’s great!
@@thelastlatchkeykid8466 Thank you!!
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifleWe make a great team!
One of my reasons for loving weaponry is the mechanical engineering involved to make them work. You provide the most in-depth information and reasoning for the how's and why's guns either work or they don't. Your obvious knowledge, experience, and expertise shows in the quality of your work and detail. I have no idea how long you have been doing this but if you don't train other armorers, you definitely should. The shooting world needs more truly qualified folks putting their hands on weapons. The long videos are great and I learned more in the last 2 1:59:31 hours than I have in the last 2 years. Thanks for your time and effort.
Just found this channel. I’ve been watching for hours….. great content!
More long format vids please🙏🙏
I thoroughly enjoyed this
Donnas camera work is top notch👌
Thank you! 😊
@@onna-day7047 no thank you for the attention to detail in what's shown. You guys are making fantastic content and make a great team
I have never seen someone be as thorough as you are, but it makes sense to be that way. I have learned so much from you. Thank you for your videos, I would love to have you go over my rifle .
I really enjoyed the two-hour video. It really flew by so fast, and it was really educational and enjoyable. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this with us.
STOP apologizing. Nice to see someone else work instead of me. Its calming.
You would love all the German Wiha drivers and Wiha bits I have. Nothing better IMO.
Chad and Donna, I have been watching your videos for a very long time now and this by far is the absolute BEST one that you guys have ever produced !!!
C’mon Chad, Fast Forward ?? Are you kidding ?? I couldn’t even bring myself to pause this video for a minute in order to go and pee !!!! 🤣
Donna, your camera work is outstanding!!
Keep up the GREAT work Mr. and Mrs. SOTAR !!!!
We Love the long videos!! Chad , please don’t apologize to us for anything !!
God Bless you both and Happy Holidays !
Thank you so much for the kind and encouraging words. I get a lot of complaints about my work and sometimes that creeps into what I create.
May God bless you and your family my friend. Happy Thanksgiving as well.
1:34:22 - your son may have “walked off” with it also... 😅😂 Great 👍🏼👍🏼 Video first time on the channel & I throughly enjoyed it. I’ve noticed that quite a few channels have their “wife” behind the camera 🎥 as well... My Hats 🎩 off to you Both...! ✌🏼
Great video! Thanks Chad and Donna for all the work you put into making it.
I came for the thumbnail, stayed for the education. Didn't think I'd watch the full thing but it was fascinating.
I love these long format videos. I could watch them all day. Thanks so much! God bless you and your family.
Thank you for all you do for the American Rifle Community!
These videos are incredibly helpful.
How can I get into your school for an internship?
Least relevant comment I can make to an excellent educational video: You said, "My youngest son took one of my bits." My Dad used to say, "Well I guess the Tool Fairy took it" when I pled innocent to knowledge of the crime. 🤣
It's therapeutic to learn from a master. This guy just oozes competence. Thank you so much for doing this. Hats off to you and your wife.
Thank you for the video, Chad! Your videos are always very informative. Your wife or son, whoever is the camera person is doing an amazing job! I wish you did have a fixed camera from above at your vice and your bullet trap.
That's me running the camera. Thanks for the suggestion. 😊
@@onna-day7047you do a great job bith you and Chad..i want to get up there and take a class with Chad just for more knowledge.
This man is the best at what he does, not only does he do these very informative and in depth videos, he also teaches classes. Hes a great dude, like and subscribe!
This video was exceptional. Thank you Instructor Chad & wife for producing this material. The list in the description is also insightful.
Black Rain Firearms are just fine
The SOTAR movie is finally out!
SOTAR
The BRO strikes back!
A lifetime of knowledge in these videos
Brutal QC with this manufacturing.Haven’t watched such an informative video in ages. Thanks !!!!
That bit about using a torque wrench on the handguard screws because one loosens as you tighten the opposite screw is absolutely true in terms of cars, motorcycles, small equipment like lawn mowers etc. I actually never even considered it when working on guns but I will now. Thanks for the awesome tip.
The Biohazard Symbol does those rifles justice avoid at all costs you'd think a Full Auto gas block would be pinned
That's the biggest thing I took away from this video... you built a full-auto weapon and didn't pin the gas block?
Tell me you don't care about getting it right without saying you don't care about getting it right.
bro rifles should be ashamed of themselves for pricing their garbage so high.
Just did a quick internet search and holy smokes they’re ranging from $700 for the cheapest one, up to $2300 for their “top tier” stuff 😳
@@joquin4618 "top tier" BRO rifles should come with a singing halmark card featuring a sample of DJ Khaled saying "congratulations! You played yourself!"
Thanks for showing the long form progression of troubleshooting these for an agency. These being duty use make me scratch my head. You may have very well saved a life of someone in blue.
Wow, thanks for the upload, Chad. 2 hours of techies and valuable knowledge
Thank you for these uploads. I’m struggling to learn from a 71 year old gunsmith right now and i’m not complaining about that, but your videos are so refreshing after being lectured for an hour about how semi-auto firearms are less accurate than any other action and that 5.56 was designed by the army corps of engineers to wound and not kill because that means it takes 2-3 guys out of the fight opposed to one. Every session is painful but i’ll take free knowledge anywhere i can get it. Videos like yours seriously help me sift through and dispell the fudlore nonsense. Thanks again
WHO IN TF BOUGHT BLACK RAIN ORDNANCE GUNS FOR AN LE DEPARTMENT??!??! Yes, all caps were necessary. They should be fired and be forced to pay the taxpayers back for such a reckless disregard for wasting their money.
I have no idea what "agency" this was, but I know a lot of small towns in rural areas have cops who buy NFA items "for the dept", but they just keep them at home for flexing on their friends and for fun. I really don't know what "agency" that isn't part of the military would actually need anything full-auto.
Great content. I wish more people were interested in learning this aspect of firearms, instead of just watching people shoot guns that they will never own. Thank you!
Idk why but there's a poetic irony in converting a Black Rain to full auto
40 years ago...that's when I wish I had seen this fantastic video!!!
I really love watching you work on AR's , I have learned so much from your Videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. 🤙🏼
A 2 hour video that took me 2.5 hours to watch with all the rewinding I did. Excellent video.
This is why I don’t trust LEO to save me or know anything about firearms.
But they're trained!
One thing I've learned over the years is just b/c someone works with guns doesn't mean they know a damn thing about them. I work for a well known AR-15 manufacturer. Most of the people I work with don't know jack shit. Even the engineers don't know the intricate details of firearm design. They're mechanical engineers, not firearm designers. And they often just work on one specific aspect of a design, whereas someone like J.M.B. was an actual inventor and firearm designer.
I can tell just by looking at the tolerances on prints I get if the designer knows anything about guns and gun parts. Most of the time they spec way too tight of a tolerance on things that don't actually matter.
What is BS is the fact that THEY are able to have select fire guns that we citizens can't! The country has gotten SO backwards!
For a time, Black Rain Ordnance AR-15s were all that were available in my area. I am so glad I decided not to buy one just for a cool paint job, now that SAR has done two different videos where he found a number of manufacturing problems with them. Thank you for all of your hard work and the information you have provided.
Thanks for everything chad! love the long form videos.
Wishing I had viewed this video before I attempted building my first AR. Now I am sitting here with it in pieces, checking every hole, spring, screw, washer, bolt, pins, etc. Thank you so much for the in depth workings of this platform...amazing stuff!
My BRO carrier screws broke free as well. It was my first rifle.
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you got it squared away.
I went to school tonight and I wish to thank you !
Outstanding informative video . I learned things I always wanted to know . One of the best learning videos I have seen .
this kind of videos are amazing! i must confess that i watched in 1.5 speed but totaly worth it... always new things to learn!
Once again SOTAR proves why this channel is the best for this kind of info. That was amazing, Chad. Textbook, point by point breakdown of every part and it's potential for failure, and the remedy for each one. Thank you, sir. We are in your debt. Sorry it took so long to get to this one.
Love these videos because it helps me diagnose problems with my first AR, which is a piston operated 6.5 Grendel. First problem I had was on the very second round. Failure to extract. Chamber had so many burrs and the extractor took a bite out of the rim! On STEEL CASE ammo!
The RSO at the range oiled my rifle's chamber liberally for me and it started operating wonderfully.
You should never oil a chamber. It increases bolt thrust tremendously and the case doesn't have anything to purchase during obturation.
@@LRRPFco52 You are absolutely correct. Heavily oiled chamber is a big no-no. Just another example of a know-it-all at the gun range, admittedly trying to be helpful, but ultimately showing his ignorance.
@@doktorfaustus Sorry, I'm a bit of a new shooter. How else could my failure to extract have been fixed? The burrs on the chamber took purchase on the steel cases and would have caused another failure to extract if I had continued. Thanks in advance.
@@themightiestofbooshes9443 a gunsmith could ream the chamber, with appropriate tools. I'm afraid there's not a safe & reliable "quick fix" for a chamber that bad.
Chamber should be gauged thoroughly to see if it meets minimum standards, cast, cast measured (for oversize). If dimensions are safe then a flex hone and polish will usually fix the issues unless it's really bad.
I was going to watch this video passively while working on something else, but couldn't stop watching. Awesome channel, very educational! Keep up the great work and content.
love your videos unlike anything else I've seen
After watching to the end, these 2 rifles are very poorly maintained when it comes to the gas block and the handguard. This is a good show of who we have working in our agencies. There really is no excuse to let a gun get like this. I have to say it is unusual to see black rain ordinance parts on a full auto gun that is used for a professional role like these. I would say the users of these are younger men or women that have minimal knowledge of these. I guess having over 30 years experience with ar15 An m16 along with other weapons and being in the army makes me a little bit hard on people that let a gun end up like this. Great video. Thanks for it.
Damn, who would have ever foreseen that a rifle whose manufacturer uses a cartoonish biohazard symbol for a logo and whose name abbreviates literally to "bro" slopped together unprofessional parts for a sworn officer's rifle? Imagine that.
Prob all oath breakers
This is my favorite channel ever. You make everything seem perfect and had me go back and do a lot to even my high end rifles. Now, my buddies give me their guns to fix all the time lmao. But mine have been FLAWLESS. thanks for all of this knowledge, now to get a bunch of gauges lol
Really cool video. Do you think these rifles were purchased as MG's or do you think a local armorer preformed the modifications? I wish there was more MG content out there because it is always cool to see a breakdown of the firearm operation, maintenance, etc... (edit, I read the description. Ignore the question)
I love this long-format content. Always happy to see a long video.
I would never give my LEO's B.R.O rifles. What were they thinking? There's so many better options that are in the same or similar price range. But I'd much rather them spend the extra 500 and get a quality rifle.
Its probably a very small department with 2-3 officers. Which is even worse b/c its not that much money to equip 3 guys with good equipment.
But in reality, they probably don't need rifles and damn sure don't need full auto ones.
@@oldscratch3535 Agree 100%.
You could spend 500 less and get a better rifle. These are way, way overpriced.
@@oldscratch3535 Put another way: Anyone who lacks the knowledge to avoid BRO as a "duty" rifle I don't trust to have sufficient training to carry a select-fire weapon into tense situations where innocent civilians may be present.
@@doktorfaustus All I see with giving officers full auto is a empty mag and friendly,s being shot. No need for full auto. Good trigger, silencer and lots of range time.
I love how scientific this all is. No brand bias or bashing going in, just a good faith fair assessment of the guts as you would any premium rifle. Thanks for the hard work uploading all this valuable information for us mere mortals to consume.
Thank you big time for the quality content! I love the detail and thoroughness of your videos!
Could you say who makes the gas block alignment tool you used? Thank you
I make and sell them on my website. I'll have more soon.
Excellent video!
The length of the video is very appreciated. It was fascinating numerous times throughout.
The main issue I have with many of your detailed videos, such as this one, is that they end up costing me money - more money on parts, additional tools, gauges, loctite products, etc. I kid, I kid!😁
Thank you so much for posting your videos and sharing your knowledge! Please continue the great work!!
I got a battle damage/rebuilt M4 from direct support in Iraq. They put the castle nut on backwards and didn't stake it. It jammed up at the clearing barrel coming back from a mission where we had no contact.
They fixed it quickly and correctly, but I never did find who it was that screwed it up in the first place.
This is the first video i seen involving full auto inspections. It is nice to see the working differences involving 3rd hole guns.
Hey Black Rain, maybe you could spend a little more time on QC and less time engraving BRO on every part.
No, please, don't tell them to stop engraving. I, for one, am relieved that there is a clear, bold, "KEEP AWAY" engraving on every one of their parts.
But it’s Tactikooool and that’s the most important!
@@ecleveland1 I must disagree. Granted, taste is subjective, so I shall say *for me* something like a quad rail is "tacticool," even if the added bulk and weight probably lacks practical benefit; an MP5 is "tacticool," even though it is a very dated design compared to modern alternatives. These BRO rifles are not tacticool. They have a mall ninja vibe that just comes across as cheap and sophomoric.
I love firearms, not because of the danger, because of the way the work, the Engineering behind it, every bolt, screw small component has a function and a reason to be there. That's why I would like to become a gunsmith or an expert in the functionality of the firearms.
I'm still blown away at how bad these guns are. And I also wonder if the "armorer" who added the sprinco orange springs to the guns was just being lazy
Springs came that way from the manufacturer.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifleThat speaks volumes to the engineering and qc process (or lack thereof) that these weapons had...
Awesome! I'm whatever's worse than an AR noob, and I learn so much from you, vs so many RUclips wannabe stand-up comedians / commandos. Thanks!
Love these vids!
That was nearly 2 hours of master class AR education. Thank you. I enjoyed it.
Did some local agency "armorer" make changes to these guns, or did they come directly from the factory this screwed up?
The answer is not only in the video but it's in the description.
Black rain is very subpar my man especially for the price
@@IvanIvanoff-d4p quite clearly it's garbage. These guns didn't even pass minimum basic functional requirements like torquing the handguard screws. There are ZERO valid reasons for this.
@@briansmith2125 yeah ive seen several from factory with parts just flying off. Like on the shelf not tightened to any spec relaly bad
I hope this guys wife is proud of his skills!!
My wife is my best friend. She is my biggest fan, and I am hers. She is the one who has motivated me to become what I am. This RUclips channel wouldn't exist without her.
if these are 'factory', BRO is.. eh.
if the agency has an armorer and they handled these to put them (or allow them to wind up in) this condition, that armorer is lazy or meh.
The Armorer is Black Rain Ordinance Trained.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRiflewell that says it all than lol
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle Is that humor? Or are you serious?
@@doktorfaustusI'm not joking. The Agencies Armorer did not want me to get my hands on these guns to inspect them. Said there is nothing wrong with them or the other 4 units they have. He is B.R.O. trained. B.R.O. teaches Armorer's Classes.
Loved every minute of it. It just amazes me how you can remember to to check and gauge and be so thorough
I’ve personally seen two bro guns with buffer tubes hand tight not staked. Good video man. I enjoyed the longer video.
Didn’t know some police departments have full auto weapons.
It's usually the swat guys or other high speed types that get them
I could watch this content for literally hours... which I just did.
Kinda shocking and concerning a duty rifle has this many issues.
I watched the whole video and will save it for reference. Have been building for 3 years and this is great reference video. Also, your wife has is a great camera operator and have patience of a saint. Many thanks.
It must be the libertarian in me. When I hear NFA, or LE/MIL only, I hear tyranny!