1418 More On The Thermoelectric Rocket Stove
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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You have made me a smarter person over the last couple years. Thank you Rob!!
wow cheers mate and thanks for taking the time to say that
So say we all!
Would copper ribbon carry voltage better? I know this is an old video but I have been wanting to ceramic print the ring and use copper sulfer for the rectifier diode
Good one mr rob..
Love to see the parallel in in a circle. and then the stacks in series.. really dig this project
cheers mate but why not pick it up from here and see what you can do - this is super easy to replicate and experiment with
I love watching your videos about DIY generators.
ditto to Happy Drones: Good one Mr. Rob.
Love to see the parallel in in a circle. and then the stacks in series.. really dig this project
it's an easy one to replicate mate - why not try it?
@@ThinkingandTinkering
I agree with you that it should be easy to figure out. But I am not that smart to visualize it as well as you.
What's worse is I have a electrical craft helper certification from the Department of water and power from Los Angeles. What's worse is my friend has an IQ of 160 and has a background as an electrical engineer and makes excellent money at it. If I show him anything outside of the box he just goes tilt. Can't comprehend new concepts or is unwilling to. And just walks away when I asked him to show me how to do what you're talking about.
So I guess if you get enough requests to show the setup and the other configuration. Then at least I can see it three-dimensionally.
I don't do well with written written word, or two dimensional diagrams. I suspect that many people are on RUclips because they get to see things three-dimensionally in full color with working demonstrations, because they can't get it from a book, or the very poor School teachers. Rob you bring things to life, the sign of an excellent teacher. You make learning exciting, fun and bring back the childlike nature of discovery and curiosity.
The Public School systems teachers have a way of destroying that by the time you finally get to leave.
Best teachers on YT like yourself. Again thank you for being willing to teach. You are a true Renaissance Man.
@@reypolice5231 oh ok - I will try and find the time to do a parallel version for you mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering I understand the series, the parallel is hard to get in my head, not the schematic, the construction.
@@ThinkingandTinkering
So kind of you to offer, thank you.
I hope enough other people want it as well. Your time is in high demand always.😁
How nice. I forever only knew thermal couples were made of two dissimilar metals fused together at one point and heated at the point to make the current. I’ve made solar cells with the method that you are using here they are quite Unefficient and I never thought of it being a thermal couple
Glad you liked it!
Fascinating device, be curious to see how much you can generate if you add a bunch of those together on a rocket stove ! My guess is, probably enough to charge a small battery bank !
Wondering also if there would be a benefit on using bigger chunks of copper, such as small flat bars, instead of small pins.
And I'm thinking, the perfect design would be if it was big enough and the center "surrounded" the rocket stove part where it gets hot, so you can stack a bunch and get maximum efficiency/heat transfer
Ceramic plates with groves holding the copper stacked up as the chimney.
Excellent explanation Rob
cheers mate
That was awesome Rob! Last night i was trying to zoom in on the last video to see what you were doing. After all these years you are still blowing my tiny mind.
lol - well to be honest mate that is good to know
I 'm going to use this amazing project to teach the physics of power generation.
awesome mate - I am honoured you would think of using it that way - cheers
Great video... This topic interests me immensely. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice. What about using copper plates or foils and copper oxide powder?
Nice sir I learned, good teacher
How awesome and now I feel like making this too.
thanks Rob!
cheers mate
Aluminum and graphite give better voltage and current , as shown by a video by Mr. Teslonian, sometime back. I've tried it and it works. Degradation of the aluminum could be a long range issue.
Your memory might be off a bit mate he got 10 millivolts that is quite a bit less than the 170 millivolts we got
Good question.
I am glad Robert commented.
I think several people have mentioned wrapping to make the junction stronger... it seems to me that it would allow more current flow - no? Say, instead of laying the "short end" onto the "long end" why not have both the same length but wrap one end around the "long end" rather than cutting it short. It would still get the temperature differential but there would be a lot more contact of the black oxides. If I get a chance to try it, I will let you know. : )
please do mate - it would be good to know
Great Stuff Rob , I Noticed That Copper Tube Coiled Up .... Would That Be For Heating Water ?
Bless Up Fella
lol - yes it is mate - I am thinking of a flash boiler - well spotted!
Oh... wow 😶 receiving this knowledge is what some might call a "religious" experience for me here. Thank you Rob! Prometheus Rob!!! 🥳🙌🙏👏
Thank you again 😊
my pleasure mate
frankly the last batch of videos lately has really turned up a notch excitement for me I've started being really excited about where you gonna go next, about the time when air blades videos were going out I was thinking alot about stirlings and thermocouples and new crazy ways of similar concepts maybe even combination of nano wind vibrated inducting strings on a resonator serving as a cooler for a rocket stove thermo couple :D etc. so I am really on the edge where this thriller is gonna go now. last to say if you need reassurance my frame of mind is extremely similar to your workshop ways and i've been silently following you and being glad of such voice in science/technology for many inspired years but this is the first time i speak out after that accidental dislike. of it means anything you are always among my top ten subscriptions priorities to watch for years now. I really think you are doing a wonderful thing alltogether all the way back to the beginings. Kindest Regards.
mate you really don't need to worry about the dislike - but bless your heart for 'fessing up to it' - it strikes me wind, wave, sun are all pretty variable but CHP based on a rocket stove isn't so could well be a good thing to haven the mix
@@ThinkingandTinkering yeah pretty variable but basicaly you chunk it all in one stove xd and basicaly "run on whatever's available". burning fuels, wind, sun, flying pigs and whatnots and it would look a darn mess but this frankestein cogen plant would be quite fun to make for a concept. would be even cooler to have integratrated old rassbery pi or any such wifi and bluuetooth conectable showing grafs throughout time of generation which source provided most. naturally fuel would be most massive source.
Excellent tutorial ‼️
Glad you liked it!
That is plain awesome! thanks mate..
cheers mate - I am glad you found it useful
perhaps if the short copper wire were bent into a circle or spiral and put the long one through it the connection would be more robust...maybe a gentle bit of compression on the coil with a pair of pliers after position is established
that would work mate - nice one
@@ThinkingandTinkering A coil would also increase the surface area of contact..would that change either the current or voltage??
A very interesting subject Robert , it got me thinking that maybe a system using sunlight and a magnifying lens ( or several) to heat the device/s to produce electricity would work effectivly.
it's an interesting idea - want to give it a go?
You could minimize the deflection of the conductors by using a material with a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, but I don't know if there is a suitable one with which you could generate the thermoelectric effect efficiently. 🤔
Could you use some sort of mechanical reinforcements at the junction between the electrodes that is temperature resistant or would that hamper the effect?
I was thinking about sticking some thermocouples onto the outside of a stove to make a little generator similar to your partisan generator.
Keep up the great work! I really like your creative designs!
So interesting! Now I'm wondering how many of these I'd have to make to get usable power output! And where to put it on the stove..I'm guessing after/above the burn chamber if it's going to be insulated...thanks for the food for thought RMS!
I am now looking at this for electric power from a car or commercial truck waste heat from water and exhaust.
1. From the exhaust manifold or the exhaust pipe. On a commercial truck, RV or car would be a cheap way to get electric power to the main battery or auxiliary battery. This would save some fuel ⛽ in the long run, less Ware on the alternator as well.
If you stuck the tips on the exhaust pipe by JB weld or to a ceramic plate stuck to the exhaust pipe then the rest would get air cooled. That would probably increase the output. You could stick 10-30 of these under a truck.
2. Possible to the water line or radiator?
RMS, what if you spot welded the junction? A resistance type welder could be used to spot weld a tack at the wire junction.
hmmm - not sure mate you do need the MIM structure - spot welding it might well go through that to form an MMI structure
Browns gas maybe or just hydrogen maybe?
Or maybe melt some copper and drip it over the connection?
Or perhaps some copper strand or copper web laced together?
@@reypolice5231 Maybe try Electroplating over the top of the junction. You might need to seal one of the wires so it isn't shorted.
Just awesome Rob thank you. An observation to remedy the breaking of the circuit could you loop around the long wire or would that rub off or destroy the oxide ??.
Fascinating! Now you have me wondering if a candle-powered MIM diode would detect radio waves... :-)
Maybe copper tape/film would work even better than a wire. It could increase the surface area in contact with the heat.
Thicker sheets would hold up better long term.
Maybe this has been covered in an episode I missed, but have you measured the temperature where you intend to place the copper? Copper of course has a lower limit in temperature tolerance and I'd be concerned about melting or burning away. Great video as always.
it's about 700C mate
this is a great explanation.
cheers mate - that means a lot to me that you say that
Damn. I was hoping for use of the rocket stove
you could rack and stack these rings of diodes creating a 4' flue with these inserted at 1cm intervals vertically this would allow the series voltage from each ring of diodes and in parallel between 100 layers of rings.
That is a very interesting concept.
Now, how can we use your conductive ink in this?
How to use the conductive ink in this: Make a super cap and or battery to accumulate a greater charge to do things with.
@@Barskor1 Well that is a given... I was wondering if the ink could be used to create the mim diode junction somehow.
Finding a way to paint or print a PN junction would open up so many possibilities.
@@TerryGilsenan Make nano particle copper then make some oxide 1 and some oxide 2 make or add to ink done.
@@Barskor1 No, I dont think it will work like that. The P and N compounds need to be in layers, not homogenated throughout the ink.
@@TerryGilsenan Sorry I was not clear make two inks brush on one then the other after the first sets.
And I've noticed a couple of times what sounds like people coming in when you're filming. You need a "Filming in progress" light on the outside of your doors. 😉
Thanks for the tip
I see that my posts in the previous video were actually read by someone.
Reverse thermocouple.
On another issue, how many people know that an LED can be viewed as a solar cell that works in reverse?
If you shine light on an LED an electric current is produced at the terminals.
Many mechanisms are reversible phenomena
I read all comments posted din the first few days of a video - I used to read all comments posted not he channel the volume means I can't do that anymore but I still try to read all comments on a new video for the first day or so - I did do a video on that but it has to be seen for people to know about it I guess
Yup, works on transistors too.
Would this work with kiln wire? Could you form a suitable coating on it as well?
I'm wondering if the black oxide can be developed in the stove, or if the bare copper has to be heat treated before assembly.
give it a go mate
Incroyable !! Mercii Abonné & liké !
Would the thickness of the copper wire make a difference to the output current?
yes
Supposedly the smaller the mass the better the results. So a lot of thin and short wire is better than more mass.
The key is a array of a lot of points getting heated with the other end getting cooled it seems.
Because they're diodes, could you use the same setup and fractalize them to step up the volts? Through perhaps brazing or maybe even ultrasonic welding? Sorry for any holes that rabbits live in you might drop down, lol.
lol - that is an interesting question lol
im surprised u didn't hammer those to find the most suitable junction shape. (i've always wanted to do similar with plates)
I don't know what a suitable shape is mate but two circles touching gives a point contact maybe that is the right shape - I think you would have to experiment with that to be honest
Question do the both rods have to be copper.
Now, what if you used a Fresnel lens or other focusing lens and put your ring of thermocouples in the focal point out in the sun? or made a line of thermocouples so that the focal point of the lens would move along it during the day..
@marthale7 it's a solar panel without having to bugger around with Si or Ge semiconductors or silicon fabrication.
@marthale7 Well, you're not going to run the dryer off of these things, but you could probably rig up a phone charger in a pinch.
it would certainly work
@@Alacritous Run an air exchanger around the chimney and you have hot air for your dryer.
If heat helps electrons get flowing...why do some electric components flow better in cold? PV cells, batteries in freezer, etc cold equals good, but car batteries won't charge if it's cold, lithium batteries suffer in cold as well. Maybe a part b video?
The problem with the wires they are circular meaning the actual contact point is a very small area from pin to pin increasing the path the electrons can flow would likely yield better results.
it might mate - unless it is a point contact diode - well worth trying though - can you try it and let me know?
@@ThinkingandTinkering The "point" of this is your point contact is extremely small like any choke point in a flow system it is a limiting factor.
Can the wires be twisted together in series? Or do they have to just lay across one another?
I was thinking the same thing while watching this video. You would want some mechanical stability so it doesn't lose connection and the oxide doesn't get worn away from vibrations or other movement. Maybe by keeping the hot leg straight and then wrapping the cold leg around the hot leg like a coil. Maybe only 4 turns or so would be needed. Basically increases the surface area and keeps it slightly more secure.
So the copper oxide is just to help create the gradient as copper and copper oxide handle heat differently?
no - the copper oxide is a semiconductor and helps form a MIM junction
@Robert Murray-Smith right! I have learned that from you in the past. Thank You!
Thank you, that's was a good explanation. Do it have to be a flame or do it work on a hot plate
Even if you would use a laser to heat it, as long as it is a gradient. meaning the outer end is hotter then where the junction is. You could even use friction heating. The Sun. Eddy currents. And so on.
@@deslomeslager thank you
I see that you want do do it possible on a hot plate. Kindly do not let it touch the hot plate as it may cause you a electric shock.
Secondary heat from a car radiator may also work if done right.
either should work mate
What was the output on that?
May I make a suggestion. Instead of thermo electric, why don’t you use thermo acoustics and use it to drive a sterling engine to produce the electricity.
Could one do this to a thin copper heat pipe to increase the transmission of heat? alternatively use a heat pipe to transfer the heat energy to these stacks so they do not get coated in carbon or flame?
I don't know - give it a go
I wonder if this could be done in an arrangement around a pipe? Or maybe use a copper pipe itself.
Too much mass, it seems to work better if there is less mas for the current to flow through.
nice answer from Rey mate
@@reypolice5231 I don't follow how mass has anything to do with it, but I can accept that you are correct. I just don't understand what you're talking about.
I'm thinking about it from the perspective of heat transfer. My understanding of a TEG is you need a hot and a cold side. So having two pipes, one with a hot fluid and another with a cold fluid seems like a very scalable design for an external heat engine. Pipes would allow for the use of efficient heat exchangers in conjunction with something like a solar field and/or geothermal pipes etc.
@@zenmanproject
Okay that definitely more info. You are now adding an additional cold source.
Like your thoughts. Here is what I would do for that build.
1. Look up ice ball it's buildable and proven design sold for portable refrigeration. Kindly YT it search ( ice ball).
2. Solar heat from a cheap build like I think (green power science) he took clear plastic to a square frame any size ( to make a parabolic lens). It gets as hot as you want it.
Geo thermal to cold is good also, but the cost of energy to pump it through a loop. I saw a man on YT, heat something and connected it to an aluminum car heater core and pass water through the aluminum car heater core. Mobile and cheap.
I saw a man on YT use reflective mylar in a metal frame in the shape of a parabolic dish for concentrating the heat of the sun. And reflecting it. Full build analysis. Very cheap to make.
As for your build with pipe. I would have short thin pipes ( metal) connected to non metal spaced out like Christmas tree lights, ( for the low mass needed to get the most efficiency) in an array. Metal thermocouple Pipes, connected with (plastic?) pipe spacers on the cold pipe. The hot side as well if you are going to use liquid filled pipe.
A cars hot water comes to mind with some air cooling ( some how).
And yes you would think more mass is better, so did I. But all the videos including the one's here on Rob's channel talk about low mass gets better results. Less mass means a cheaper build if you just brake it up into short pieces of Connected pipe ( metal/ plastic, metal /plastic) you only need 100 degrees difference between hot and cold ( Fahrenheit) I'm told to get an electrical current to flow.
I saw a man on YT show that as he ramped up the heat and got more and more power that the direction of the current reversed several times as he got up to 700°.
So a full bridge rectifier will be needed to deal with this reverse of current flow every time the current switches in direction as the heat (temperature differential) goes up.
Look up a lot of videos on RUclips, you'll see what they're talking about.
@@reypolice5231 I still don't follow what you mean by mass. Mass of what? The copper? The ZT value equation does not include mass.
ZT = Seebeck coefficient squared * absolute temperature * electrical conductivity / specific thermal conductivity
The Seebeck coefficient does not include mass. So why would the mass affect it?
Could you just make the rocket stove out of copper and offset your stove so it had junction points so the whole stove could create electricity?
I don't know - you could try it I guess - maybe with a small version?
Uhm question:
How about putting 1 long electrode with a lot of other ones on it so you have 1 positive or negative and a bunch of the other
Will the array give greater output if the outer portion is cooled?
Isn't the output dependent on a temperature difference?
The greater the temperature difference the greater the output?
yes exactly
What happens if the thermal differance is greater, does it make a differance?
I would imagine so - but I don't know - give it a go
Is there anyway of showing two opposing pressure systems adjacent from each other without a physical barrier..?
Or can you show a gas pressure without a container?
I don't think it exerts pressure without a container mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering thanks 👍 so would you say a container is a necessary antecedent for a gas pressure?
@@horizontarn well it depends what you mean by a container - of course - as the atmosphere is contained in a sense and so has a pressure - but is not pressure a force?
@@ThinkingandTinkering 🤣🤣 you knew where I was heading 👍 well that depends can you show an example observable repeatable… that shows a gas pressure without a container and not filling it’s available volume? Or can you show gas been effected by space time bending..? Or is it point to the sky and declare???
So, when may we see a demonstration (your own made)?
a demonstration of what mate?
@@ThinkingandTinkering
Of you using this very homemade thermoelectric generator on your rocket stove. You said one can stack several of them on top of each other to boost the result, but it would still be very interesting to watch even just one "ring" and see the actual effect
Is this how the diodes in a valve amplifier work?
I don't know mate
Not going to lie it's like magic to me 😂😂
it is magical that's for sure mate
I wanna you get 14 volts using just wires and heat! There is your challenge!
What is the minumum heat that is needed?
I don't know - give it a go
Love the content and your presentation ... but sorry, those audio dissolves are difficult to listen to. Often you are saying, 'as you can see here', but we can't because they are tiny in frame. Close ups please, and hard cuts better than dissolves.
Problem with the copper is the rocket stove when properly set up, will get hot enough to melt steel. Copper wouldn't survive.
place it higher in the flue
@@ThinkingandTinkering that won't work, not tall enough.
@@billwoehl3051 ??? - then make it taller - normally in a flue the flue extends to outside the building - you are right it's not tall enough for a camping version worked outside but equally a camping version worked outside doesn't get hot enough to melt steel! You are seeing problems mate - which id great - but it's even better if you see a problem and propose a solution - that helps - it's actually pretty easy to see problems they lurk in every corner - it's harder to propose a solution - but doing that is what makes the difference
@@ThinkingandTinkering if it's indoors, then most likely a rocket mass t, put it after the bell
@@billwoehl3051 thank you mate - that's a nice suggestion - I do get your point by the and appreciate the help - cheers
🙏👍🙏
awesome mate!
its a "pump", an electron pump.
yes it is! and that is very interesting
A proper vortex/rocket stove will burn coal with NO pollution! ---------- You have an energy problem in Europe, get building turn out a top version, build a factory ------ be a billionaire and save the planet!