Top 10 Mistakes in "21" The Movie
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- The MIT Card Counting team is portrayed in the movie, "21". The movie is based on a true story but it gets some key elements of real card counting wrong! Here is how the movie "21" messed up. When it comes to Counting Cards, Hollywood loses the count.
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Is card counting legal? Here are the facts - ruclips.net/video/rCwB2JJrqI4/видео.html
Why does this look like it was filmed in the 70s
Cause at the time they were actively counting so I think they did that on purpose
despite all the flaws, it was still a great movie
Well hello troy from 12 years ago.
mkw came out the same week, this video published thats how fckn old this comment is and I see it now o;
I saw the profile picture and I was like “no way”
can't believe I found you on a blackjack video
@@Yodiak same xd
i love how they remembered so many things about the movie but then couldnt remember the main character's name
quick question. idk if u will read this but i just wanted to ask if the last 12 years have changed a lot from ur opinion. i mean it’s kinda cool seeing such old comments, because usually the person changes a lot during such a large period of time. so yeah, if you don’t mind, i’d like to hear if the last 12 years have gone like super fast or not. i really don’t know what i want to ask, i’m just generally curious
Cole Williams mentions "...The true count is 7..."
*_*gulp*_* 😟
Video production has come a LONG way for you guys. Keep up the great work!!
It really depends on the person. Everyone has their own opinion on tipping. I had a pit boss suggest to me to tip the dealer when I was coloring up. She said I should tip the dealer and the other dealer behind her where I had also won. I just mumbled something and walked away. Another time, a dealer who I had been chatting casually with for a while began to say, "I thought you were a nice guy." and "Im surprised". And I told her that I tip at the end, or when I leave. She didnt like that idea. And at another place nearby, I had spilt aces 4 times and then hit a 10 on each one. It was amazing. And as the dealer plays out her hand, I hear the pit boss utter," I bet he wont give her a dollar either." Yes I won the hand, no I didnt give her a dollar. The concept of tipping seems to turn adults into spoiled brats.
If you are just playing for fun and hit big, then tip. If you are a professional player, then don't. Business is business.
Correct!
They don’t tip us when they all our money haha. Just kidding but I’ll tip every now and then
@@sancheziii22 no thats exactly true. they will take all your money and dont tip you, but you finally whne and they supposed to get money...please. its business
this just screams autism
MIT team had strict rules to never ever tip dealers.
Kevin would ask the female to pull his finger. Occasionally
These guys were in a Christian card counting team based out in Seattle. I've watched their documentary & been inspired since, much respect to you guys!
Ben: "What was Bens name?"
Honorable mentions should be...
- Ben had just joined the team and passed the "test" at the Asian underground casino yet on his first night was selected to be a BP. Most all team play has people start as spotters because BP is much more difficult.
- The call ins were over exaggerated and ridiculous. Folding your arms behind your back dramatically is a huge giveaway. Real teams use common mannerisms that anyone would do. Real MIT team folded arms in front of them which doesn't give off attention.
- Even before calling the police after you get punched by a casino staff member, if they say "let's go have a talk", you have every right to say no and leave. Forcing you to do this is holding someone against their will which is illegal.
Christopher Gargaro another way I’ve seen tipping off is having a woman be the spotter and have them take off their sandals or heals
You've probably already seen this elsewhere, but Mickey said he chose Ben to be the BP because he "doesn't trust the girls and Choi is, well, Choi". I personally thought Jill could've made it as a BP.
@@KevinTheKevinablewhy Jill?
@@alexli3630 Eh mostly, because Jill seemed the most focused out of the counters. The only real difference between being a Spotter and a Big Player was your ability to maintain a cool head. I could be wrong, but it looked to me like she could've done it. At least give her a trial run.
@@KevinTheKevinable ah I see
Lawrence Fishburn's character mentions the true count to Jim Sturgess when he first meets him. Only reference in the entire movie for true count.
Haha all true stuff but the movie was entertaining and I loved it.
Aside from all of the issues they mentioned in this video, there were a few other things I found unbelievable about the film.
The primary motivation that the main character has for playing blackjack is to earn enough money to pay for medical school. That's an understandable motive, but throughout the film, we see that his studies are mostly in mathematics and computer science. He doesn't study biological subjects like anatomy or physiology, which would be far more beneficial to him if his intention were to study medicine.
Next, in a lecture on non-linear equations, Kevin Spacey's character introduces the Monty Hall problem. I would understand completely if the Money Hall problem were introduced in a lecture on probability theory or statistics, but it seems unusual that it would be mentioned in a lecture on non-linear equations.
Finally, there is a lot of the history of mathematics discussed in the lectures. Some lecturers may choose to include some history in mathematics lectures, but most would avoid it entirely. It just takes time away from what you're supposed to be teaching.
With the Monty Hall problem, maybe the lecturer character was using it as a subtle test, to see who would get it - it was later explained they needed to replace a team member.
Eh, you're a wanna be Vegas big shot, I win
Not that deep bro
Shifting the small advantage the casino has to the player is what’s going to make this more of a grind than what people think. I think it would take a lot more time, effort and hard work then people imagine.
You might also mention the issue with the montages if Ben sitting at a table for a long period of time as many people come and go. A BP would never stay long because of the count resetting with each new shoe (about 11 hands if there are four players, even fewer if he doesn't join until the count is high)
Good point!
On a 6 deck game with 4 players and a dealer, you would average around 18 hands.
@@OriginalGateKeeper isnt it obvious to the casinos if someone changes their seat everytime a shoe is refilled?
@@NinjarioPicmin Never saw a counter constantly changing their seat.
@Sheldon Cooper per shoe. Of course you have to take into account the speed of the dealer and the players taking time to bet and make play decisions.
The biggest mistake at the beginning of the movie is choosing a door in which he has a 33% chance because there are three doors and one is taken away and they claim he has a 66% chance now which is inaccurate it's 50%. You did not add 33% you took away 33%, which completely changes the equation. There are two doors and you are choosing one which is 50% no matter how you slice it.
That isn't a mistake. You just missed the point.
It's the Monty hall problem, look it up. Given the exact conditions provided, the movie gets it right. Statistically speaking, new information is provided, so you should switch. It's counter-intuitive, but the math works.
I literally thought that movie was relatively new. Maybe 2016 max lol
1) Not really "inaccurate." If she doesn't think it's about strategy, she can voice her opinion.
2) Again, not really inaccurate. You even said it yourself that he was in a rush. And so, he can tip them whatever he wants. There's no law against it.
3) They wanted to keep viewers and not confused.
4) He was obviously scared and didn't want to reveal anything.
5) If you recall, at least one of those times was when Fisher did it on purpose.
6) It's a movie. Everything can't be right.
After 13 year anyone else?
I just love how Colin keeps saying "the next thing that was inaccurate about the movie" lol. This is the first time I've seen a video as old as this. You'd never guess that this is the same Colin from the videos today. It's cool to see him at the beginning of BJA.
I was a child when this came out, maybe a tween at best. Crazy that I'm in my late 20s watching this guy and counting cards and he made a video about this movie i loved as a kid WHEN IT CAME OUT, this wasn't a thing (Real X reacts to X related movie scenes) until very recently!,Colin was literally a visionary ahead of his time!
great argument there! you completely smouldered their points into oblivion, and you made them look foolish! nice work
I always tip the dealer. gives me camouflage. I scared the pit-boss once after tipping a dealer (looked like he was new) a green. fun times
These guys are telling the truth... unlike movies that advertise for gambling to make you loose money. here they explain what blackjack really is
Haha #7 is pretty funny.
They walk in at the same time, they walk in a horizontal line and wear flashy clothes...sort of like they actually wanted to make their presence known.
I know it's "movie logic".
Entertaining movie nonetheless.
Why are people hating, they wanted to make a video on something they're interested in. If you don't like it dont watch. They showed what the title promised.
Most blackjack pros don't tip, it is seen as a waste of money.
If the dealers don't make enough money, they should ask their
employer for a raise. I would gladly tip, but then I would expect the dealer to do what I want.
+R Kurtz What, you must be a cheesy dealer, or casino owner, OHHH no, I know the answer, you a beggar!!!
Problem is, the EV is much much lower than the "win", and ur expected to tip a percentage of the win, so if you tip, u are bound to lose money.
Why don't Blackjack tables just shuffle the cards? It shouldn't be illegal to count cards. You are taking advantage of a flaw in the game!
Its not illegal to count cards anywhere in the USA
the card counting christians!!! i love it.
It's their opinions people. I have mine, you have yours. There is no reason to dislike these guys for "wasting their time" sharing their opinions. You took the time to watch the video and type your comment. If sharing your opinion is a waste of time, then just about everything would be a waste of time. People complaining about the tip thing are right though. But most players wouldn't tip if they are losing
An interesting video. I enjoyed it!
I'm a dealer in Las Vegas and I'll tell you that the casinos pay us minimum wage and we depend on tips for the majority of our wages. We know who's counting and who isn't and we can make it easier or harder for you guys depending whether or not you tip us! You pay us and we'll work for you -- you don't pay us and we work for the casino, it's as simple as that. So remember that when you've been playing for hours and haven't tipped a dime.
gmc9753 i know im late but you can go fuck your self and how the fuck are you gonna work for the casino your saying if we tip the dealer aka you,that you will work for us?stfu ur a fucking dealer u dont work for casnos or for us ur just there to deal fucking card know your place dumbass
I'd be angry too if I didn't know how to type. In the end, a dealer's paycheck looks like this: casino: 30% or less, players: 70%+. Basic common sense. You want a dealer to ignore that you are a problem to the 30% that pays them? Be the 70% and they will know their place. It's you that doesn't know your place and thinks you are above this negotiation.
240p really ? filmed with a potato ?
its uploaded in 2008, so it makes sense.
My thoughts exactly 😂
@@mr.n476 you do know youtube had 720p videos since early 2007
@@allistergraham6704 but these guys were poor and couldn't afford 720p camera
@@allistergraham6704 but 240 in 2008 was still acceptable. Plus buying an expensive (in 2008) upgrade in equipment is a waste of $ and eats into their EV.
I loved the movie and so i got more into black jack.Thanks for the tips!
Collin you should grow your hair back out.
Gay
@@angelmoreno5058 lol
Hard to believe you were actually running your website and posting a few videos while playing actively and running your team. Insane!
calling 911 would NOT get you in more trouble. Counting cards isn't illeagal and therefore you can't get in trouble with the police. The people at the casino can throw you out, but the cops can't do anything about it!
I am ten and can count a half a shuffled deck. but im still slow
Desil10 well ur 14 now and shud b on the verge of being a pro if u kept it up? How’s it been going ? Lol
@@cjyoung999 I know right
Probably a pro now lol at 10 years old learning this, this kid has a great life ahead of him no lie lol
Wait I just realized you're at my age
I thought that the biggest inaccuracy of the movie was that the MIT kid didn't know how to use a bank and instead opted for hiding money that wasn't being searched for like it was stolen, above a ceiling tile.
I really enjoyed the book. I really disliked the movie. Therefore, I'm just going to throw out there that the movie is just terrible for so many reasons. The idea of the evil MIT professor is totally made up for the movie. The video also pointed out that if a corporate casino's security head beats the living crap out of you, you sue the casino, especially when hundreds of people can see your bloody and bruised face as you try to walk out. It's also totally laughable that the movie's hero is not only a genius intellectual, but has no real desire to make money other than for the noble cause of paying for his medical school education (what, the genius never heard of taking a loan like the thousands of other medical students out there?). And finally, let's also point out that while the book made a point of emphasis that in the early 1990's casinos assumed young gambling Asians were children of wealthy businessmen and used that misconception to fly under the radar, the movie made the main characters white.
Yeah, screw 21.
Correct! The leader of the team was named "Johnny Chang".
If I'm not mistaken the 'No Mid-Shoe Entry' rule virtually put a stop to team play.
Not everybody uses the "no mid-shoe entry" rule. And it would affect anyone shadow counting or "Wonging" in.
Dealer makes a fucking normal wage, he isn't a fucking waiter. Do you tip everyone who rings you up at stores too? How about lifeguards? No? You only need to tip people whose pay is lower than minimum wage because they are expected to be tipped. Waiters, waitresses, valets, maybe doormen if you feel generous. That is it.
Remember, if you work at fucking McDonald's that dealer makes more money than you do.
Dealers pay scale is less the McDonald's. I have worked at a casino whose toke rate was dismal and I know the Slot Attendants were making more the dealers did. Hell, the floor sweepers did too!
If you care about card counting then this is a good video. If you don't, you shouldn't be watching this video.
i want 8:56 minutes of my life back.
Another mistake: at the begining of the film, the main character says: "I had heard "blackjack" at least 14 times that night", and counting cards doesn't make you get more blackjacks, you just use it to know when to bet a lot.
yes you're right, that was a bit of an exaggeration. The frequency of blackjacks will be the same but card counters will generally have more money on the table when they do happen.
1. the movie was great
2. ALWAYS tip your dealer ALWAYS
3. you 2 need a life
4. come to my casino ill kick you ass with a smile on my face
5. ALWAYS tip your dealer ALWAYS
Never tip the dealer, let them bum out on the street.
Gamblers tip, they tip like crazy even when they lose. Professionals tip at the end of a session only. IF they tip at all.
Francisco Lopez We disagree. We usually only see gamblers tip when they're winning or when they win a big hand or a big side-bet payout. Professionals rarely tip at all.
***** Im sorry I wasnt clear. I can only base on what I see everyday at the casinos in my area.
Gamblers tip when they are losing because they believe in Karma, that if they tip the cards will fall in their favor.
Players tip because they don't know any better. Some think that if they tip that they will have better luck, some think they should tip because they have won some money, some tip because they seen someone else tip, and think it is a custom. All tipping does is it saves the rich casino owner from paying a proper wage. If everyone doesn't tip, then the casinos would have to pay a better wage....DON'T TIP!!!!!
yeah, I noticed that as well about the true count. The true count is the card count divided by the number of decks left in the shoe. Of course, they did say what their true count was, but never mentioned that it was in fact the "true count" or the reasoning behind it.
I would disagree that the movie was wrong by saying that there is not as much strategy to blackjack as people think. Yes there is a lot to memorize and there is an optimal play for each hand against a dealers upcard and variation based on true count, but the best plays are very concrete. If you have a hard 12 against a 4, hard 13 against a 3, or have 16 against a 10, you hit if the count is negative and stand if the count is positive and play this way on every hand. You don’t need to gauge what type of player the dealer is because the dealer has set rules. Each hand against a dealer upcard has only one optimal solution based on the true count, so I agree there is not a lot of strategy to playing blackjack.
i believe at one point they also mentioned to not split 8s vs a 10 but in reality, according to basic strategy, one should actually always split 8s, even against an ace
in this day, almost every subject for entertainment, whether it be game or movie or whatever, relies on knowledge of the past. In Assassin's Creed, they make several references about some symbols of the lines of Peru or something and quotes from the past. In 21, they didn't research enough, I'm just saying, expect to see accurate movies in the future. Oh and thanks for clearing this up for people who took the movie too seriously. Unique way of teaching people, guys. :3
#6 you mention how a running count of 16 is unrealistic, but didn't you also just say that True count of 2 or maybe even 3. In an 8 deck game, if your true count is 3, then your running count could be as high as 15, 18 or even 21 on your running count.
I've seen running counts in the 30's on a 8deck game.
why do people always point out the mistakes? there will always be mistakes in movies
Now this is a deep cut! That hair Colin!
They didn't pan the movie, simply pointed out where it diverges from the reality of card counting. And in so doing, I think they did a good job of shedding light on a lot of aspects of what card counting is all about. And you're right, maybe card counting isn't "highly profitable" (though that may depend on one's definition of highly), but it seems to be *reliably* profitable -- just as any house with a 51-49 advantage over the players will always be reliably profitable long term.
They did mention the true count, when the security guy comes up to the table for the first time to intimitade the lead actor and he gets scared and tries to walk away, he says something along the lines of "why are you leaving now when you know the count is +12, making the true count 4" so given that there is 3 decks left, that is a reasonable number to call the bp and given that no one is going to learn card counting from he movie, it was not necessary to make a bigger deal out of the true count
The biggest mistake was that I paid $1 to see the movie! I should have waited for it to come on TV.
you guys do realize that it's a film. not a tutorial on how to count cards.
two reason why they do this in the movie
1. is because maybe i think the maker dont want to actualy teach the viewers cardcounting and
2. This is holywood everything is possible !!!
nice job guys. Sheds light on alot of things.
keep it up :)
deck shuffling doesn't stop card counting
dudes, its a movie, made for entertainment purposes, and two BP's were playing at the same table because Fisher was pissed because Ben (the main character) was wining more than him okay. so give the producers and everyone else that made the movie a break, because as I said, it was made for entertainment.
The BP would look for the signal to come to the table, so if the spotters didnt signal that meant the table was low. Also they did a sign to tell the BP when the deck was cooling down.
I also don't think the critique about the min bet counters only messaging the running count (eg sweet = 16) was a valid point, as the BP would look at the discard pile and work out the TC themselves.
there are about 100 things wrong with that movie. Lets name a couple: First when joe said she had a comped suite at the hard rock and her and been go have happy time togeather it shows the view of the bellagio. the hard rock WAS nowhere near the bellaGIO. second: it shows them playing at redrock casino. the redrock is way way way way off the strip. why would they go clear out there? there is no point to it when you all these casinos on the strip. Next when it shows bens first time in vegas it shows them going down the strip in a limo and they end up at the hard rock. the hard rock WAS like right next to the airport and nowhere near the strip, why would they need to drive down the strip to get there? i was really disappointed with that movie.
It’s a green screen they don’t actually film in any hotel rooms beside the first one
I care, they make a good point, if there's a movie based on the seriousness of Card Counting in Blackjack then it's bad for people to get the wrong idea on things because they might do it in real life. Haven't you heard people say, "I saw this in a movie once" ?
when somebody punches you in hte face and hands you a business card, you can call the cops. THATS EPIC RIGHT THERE!!! SO TRUE!!!
Good vid. I had the same impressions. One to maybe add to the list is the fact that they went to the same casino every time in the movie! When in real life (and in the book), they went to different casinos all over the country (and world in some cases).
I've yet to try counting at a casino mainly because I got basic strategy pretty well memorized, but as your true count moves your basic strategy also changes, plus your adding in a whole nother set of numbers to constantly work with while you play. I practiced it some online with fake money, won't try it for real till i'm 100% comfortable with it and that will mean many more hours of practice, plus a bankroll i don't currently have.
is it good to start learning at a young age? if its good to start learning blackjack, what age would be good?
Great video. All of these negative comments are from people who don't count cards (for whom the video is not intended).
you should talk about the movie mistakes about the actual blackjack game and not about producing/quotes or "whatever" mistakes
I appreciate this video.
Although Point#5 There was a huge reason for why they needed 2 BP players. You probably notice the camara managers mentioning lucky players and card counters. If there are two big winners at a 3 players talbe, it is less obvious that both the players are cards counter. Rather the table is hot and the dealer isn't.
One comment regarding Point 6: I'm assuming the MIT team was playing 1 or 2 deck tables as opposed to tables with 6 deck shoes. As you mentioned, +16 counts are extremely rare, and in a 6 deck shoe a true +16 count almost never happens. One of the reasons card counting is no longer very profitable is because the use of 6 and 8 deck shoes removes the variance that allows significant favorable counts to occur very often (tables that offer 2 deck shoes now only pay 6/5 on black jack).
Card counting can be profitable on 6 or 8 deck shoes.
+16 on a 6 deck is much more common than 16 on single deck. If you had 16 on single deck, there would literally be no low cards in the deck and 0 tens dealt.
@@benshiotsu8553You’re thinking of a running count. I was talking about a true count, which adjusts for the decks remaining in the shoe. So if the running count is +16 and there are approx 4 decks remaining, the true count is +4.
Most of these "mistakes" aren't even mistakes, they just result from you not paying enough attention, lol.
On the other hand there are some big mistakes you missed:
1. In one scene Kate Bosworth's character (Jill) says you should not split eights vs a 10.
2. In another scene Ben splits tens!
You'd think these guys would know their basic strategy! ;)
no, that would be the running count that they mentioned. the true count would be that, divided by the number of decks remaining.
Fight for together?
Why are people hating on this video so much? I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the errors. I quite enjoyed the movie and if I watched it again I would enjoy it still if not more knowing what the errors are. And if you really don't care about the errors that movie makers make I worry you take Hollywood falsities as truth...
Probably people who want to count cards that don't want to pick up the mistakes portrayed in a major Hollywood film? I'm just throwing that out there off the top of my head.
I bet the casinos are loving this explanation and the movie etc; think of all the people who are going to go to the casinos and try this.......and fail
could you now explain the mistakes in harry potter or lord of the rings?
@jameswoods2001 I think they were more concerned with the frequency and the amount of tips being given. They never said not to tip at all.
It's an unspoken rule that you need to tip your dealer and the person of the Cascades if you win big... Because they're working for minimum wage...
1st off most people don't know how a card counting team works. They want to see a movie. If they tried to portray a real team in the movie it would've been too boring ... so boring it should be a book. I thought they translated "Bringing Down The House" into a movie fairly well.
I think I'm going to go see what Nascar drivers thought about "Days Of Thunder" ;)
I was fine with memorising basic strategy but could never get good enough at keeping track of the count, without even taking account of the distractions at casinos and the need to seem natural.
I love the amount of sarcasm used in that comment. It actually stung me in the eye a little bit. :P
those guys are from a team of card counters if my memory is good christian blackjack team
I'm a card counter who's no longer really active, and I also was a dealer for 10 years. I found it very difficult not to overtip my dealers when I was on a solid run, and this DID cost me a lot of profit over time.
What I suggest is that, if you know what your expected win is per hour, try to tip about 10% to 15% of that rate ONLY during the times when your bankroll is at or near a lifetime high. This will upset some dealers when you're winning short-term but down long-term.
What's with the negative comments here? People actually believe stuff that happens in movies believe it or not. Stop throwing out derogatory names when these people are trying to give real advice.
Can't believe this video was made right when the movie came out. Old youtube.
on running counts/ true count part of the video m pretty sure the movie supposed to mean running count, NOT true count , so a 8 deck show with true count of 2, running count can be high , maybe not sweet sixteen, but definitely can be above 5
wow u guys really are genius to discover that
1. Just because they say "not as much strategy as people think" doesn't mean they are saying it doesn't have any strategy. Just says that people usually try to over think Blackjack or think it's some super hard deal and it really honestly isn't.
2. My wife is a Blackjack dealer. She's been tipped $1,500 on one hand before. This isn't at a Vegas Casino either.. so getting a $5,000 tip? I'm sure it's happened before.. Not saying people go tip 5 grand every day.
Not from a counter
Surely having 2 bps at a table with a sp helps because if it is an epic +16. Then 6 cards are getting dealt, they could all be high but 2 of them are lost because the small beter is using them, so if you have 2 bps and an sp 66% of the high cards are getting high bets, where as with 1 bp and 1 sp 50% of the good cards are getting wasted.
You will probably NEVER SEE a T+16 on a 6 deck game using the 6 Deck Hi/Lo System.
good work lads.
I see what ya's were tryin to do.
I'll check yah site out. I've been counting for a little while and I agree with what you're saying. Keep up the good work.
Ahhh, right guys. I understand that your professional black jack players and all, but 21 btw is a film. It's NOT meant to teach people how to play but to give an insight of what went on with the MIT crew 15 or so years ago. If this were a professional teaching DVD then yes, you guys were good. But it's NOT, it's a film.
Whoever came up with the idea of making that film, well i feel sorry for you. :D
I like the observations...
however,
at around 4:55 the guy on the left says, "we're not exactly sure how the MIT team did things 15 years ago..."
it shows that NOT MUCH research was done on the true story before or after the observations were made.
The way mentioned is a good way the MIT students should have done things, but the fact is that the movie was based on the book...
hence, no matter how good you are in blackjack, the book should be read before comparing accuracy of the movie.
so unnecessary. people like you are so funny. good luck with life guys :)
So was it mistakes, inaccuracies, or myths?
And what about the music that kept playing throughout the movie? In real life, it is rare that music starts playing during conversations, while you're walking down the street, and so on. Completely unrealistic.
If you have two people that always bet big, it's less supsicious than if you have one person that always bets big, that bets twice as much, randomly.
No mention here of the good oil -
True count see Playing Blackjack as a Business Lawrence Revere - Before you venture to play read Casino Gamblers Guide (Allan Wilson)
also Beat the Dealer (Edward Thorp)