Transparent resins are the most common type of resin prone to unpleasant discoloration. If there's anything to try the mold release process on outside of these flexible resins, it's clear resins.
I think the process is too hard to control (your "white" models were different shades with the newer one more yellow), and takes more away from 3D printing than it adds.
Try putting the yellowed one in hot water for several minutes and it will likely de-yellow. I have to do this with all of my white resins - I cure them in water at 45C, then put them in 100C water for several minutes, let them cool down and they go back to being as white as they were printed (and sometimes more white).
Interesting video joel Lots of questions 1) what is the long term effect....I.e. will it still yellow over time? 2) will it work with non flexible resins? 3) will it work with clear resin? 4) do you need the mould release? Or is it just the more gentle cure?
High five to you too. Love seeing more resin printers. Do you think a vacuum chamber would remove enough air (and oxygen with it) that you could use that instead of having to dunk? Super curious and maybe it works! Would be drier than water.
I've never tried mold release, but I always do water curing even when not using flexible resin. I've yet to have any discoloration issues, whether with light colored resin or with transparent resins. I'd be interested to see if you get the same results while skipping the mold release step.
If oxidation during curing is a problem then why not use clear PVA instead of spray on mold release. Water could then be used to dissolve away the PVA after curing.
Well I know the quick siraya tech quick resin explodes in water so that one would not be a good one. Not sure if they finally added that info with that resin.
The ONLY thing I don't like about flexible resin is trying to remove it from a flexible build plate. Those plates are usually great but when you flex it with these resins the model just bends with it!
This Nexa3D wash and Cure Station looks exactly like my Anycubic Wash&Cure 2.0 Station, but with a different cover. Did they just rebrand this thing and sell it as their own?
I have found it very difficult to eliminate the tacky/shiny surface on a lot of resin models. I've gotten best results with a 3 stage wash process where the third stage is an ultrasonic heated bath. But I still don't get results like this. I'll have to try the new process and see how it goes. Thanks for the video!
@@craiggordon2502 Assuming the resin being used is reasonable or better quality, it should work for regular resin prints (there's nothing special about the Nexa3D XiP besides a special film it uses in the resin tank instead of FEP or PFA (aka "nFEP").
Looks like an Anycubic Wash and Cure plus, so let's try putting some aluminum foil in the cover of our Anycubic Wash and Cure Plus, let's spray some models with Pam or silicone spray (the pure stuff) or some other polysiloxanes, then water cure it.
@@3DPrintingNerd What makes you think I didn't do it, and more? Just because you are so astonished at the shiny new (to you) concept of "water curing" and oxygen barrier techniques, and a USD $7000 3D 🍋resin printer that uses the same wash and cure machine as Anycubic (of course with shiny mylar in the cover) and makes that horrible "grid artifact" which Nova3D and Uniz printers don't? In any case, you tube doesn't allow links to anything but you tube videos, which you must have seen on this topic a few years ago already(?), so you'll have to look up the decades of practical papers on these things yourself, LOL Finally, please show the Nexa3D XiP light source quality by printing a 10cm L x 10cm W x 3mm thick square flat on the build plate and show the face that is not facing the build plate, as a matter of fact do that for every MSLA 3D printer you have and/or review, you'll get lots of views and likes from viewers, but maybe not so much from 3D printer manufacturers...
Very interesting. I have not used that process before and I think 60minutes of cure time is so much. Maybe it's just the material, but I've never had any resin turn yellow like that. I will add, the parts that I left in the AZ sun in July for 10 hrs, those were yellow like that, but that's way longer.
Cure time is dependent on the size and geometry of the part, but most of our industrial materials require 30-60 minutes to reach appropriate tensile strength. White and clear resins when exposed to large amounts of UV (and the AZ🌞) will yellow over time.
I believe the final product is the one that meets the manufacturer's stated flexible rating. Right off the build plate, it is much more flexible than intended.
Hey Joel, this may not have been your intent, but you've certainly put me off getting a resin printer. Soooo much fuss and (potential) mess afterwards. Thanks!
Having started both resin and FDM printing at about the same time, I found resin much easier to get in to and get printing consistently good prints. Yeah the post processing is a bit more work, but it's all much more straight forward than FDM.
I have some guesses as to the chemical reaction and tricks as to why the process is such. I would guess that something like this is used for higher accuracy prints actually.
I stopped watching at 09:28 . What do I think wel to be honest totally Honest . The quality sure is way better than FDM printing yes . Skipping back for about a year a was kinda harsh about the Creality belt printer and I will apologise because after way more reviews i do need to say the Belt printer can do long prints and in my case it would be great to be able to print long train track parts . Now Let’s get back to topic . The Quality yes resin looks awesome indeed no real visible layer lines . The ability to print smooth parts and small figures like warhamer 40K ore even lego pieces . But then the part i do not like at all because i wil be honest . The proces steps after the printer is done printing . To much chemicals what makes printing things way to expensive . So for me I love watching you Joel . I did learn allot about FDM printing and the use of Cura . And that is something I want to talk about . I have seen U use an Appel mac device . So I guess you’re using Cura on it . I Use an old Microsoft laptop for Cura . And i design with my Apple IPad Pro 2020 . And it can’t run Cura on it so to slice . I need to take the STL files on an USB stick when i downloaded my designs from Tinkercad . To start up the Microsoft piep piep piep Laptop ( Sorry for the pieps I just hate Microsoft allot ) And when I Got it running I load the stl from usb to slice to safe on the Micro USB card . And then walk over to the FDM Creality printers I got to start printing . I got 2 Creality 3D pro FDM printers with the volume of 21cm wide 20 cm deep and 23 cm high because i print with an 0.8mm nozzle . And i am interested in information about a good slicer that can be installed on the IPad Pro 2020 . An offline version because the one Creality got is online and I bumped into issues with the G-codes . Most of the time i get layer shifts . And the printer stops and then keeps on feeding filament . So I went back to Cura on the piep piep piep Microsoft laptop . It’s the only thing where I keep the laptop for . So can you look into it and make a video about a slicer for the IPad Pro users like me . Greetings The.NL.Pirate.King from the Netherlands . I hope my Reaction ain’t to long :) .
Uhh….maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but you’re making it sound as if you’re comparing a print that has only been rinsed to a print coated in mold release and properly cured under uv light…..
I like curing in water, after cleaning, with Elegoo water washable resin. I find on larger/thicker prints the water acts as a heat sink and prevents warping. I also find that the water disperses the UV light giving me a more even cure. This means less flipping the part around to make sure all sides are cured. I haven’t tried longer cure times (on purpose) because out of water over curing leads to the parts being super brittle, and resin minis are fragile enough.
As long as my prints are really dry before the final cure I never have any discoloration. Sometimes I leave them out to dry over night. With this tacky flexible resin you have to be careful, any dirt will permanently stick to it.
You never mention how the yellowed one was cured or for how long. Was it water-cured or air-cured? You mention that 60 minutes is the cure time for that resin, WITH mold release, IN water. What's the "normal" cure time for that resin? Does that resin come in other colors? Do those colors change after curing or is it just white? Conclusions can't be drawn without all the relevant info. I'm not trying to come at you hard and appreciate the effort but I just keep seeing these "scientific" videos about different ways of doing resin-printing-related stuff, and they either leave out critical information, never gather the necessary data in the first place or introduce too many variables and draw incorrect conclusions based on their "science".
I was hoping to see you show how much faster it is to print with Xip, but enjoyed the video nonetheless. Something I'll have to do installments on down the road to buy.
Love your videos but There are some things in this video that bother me from a safety perspective. You should use gloves when using mold release as well as wear a respirator and be in a well ventilated area when using it. Mold release is basically PTFE in solvent. Both of which are really bad for your lungs. Not to mention that the water is basically hazardous waste because of the mold release. Next, unless your clean IPA is fresh you do not want to work with it without gloves the uncured resin can for some people give really ba rashes or chemical burns not to mention that IPA is a drying agent and dehydrates the skin. So water curing is a thing and it can have drastically different results. I personally don't use it anymore because the waste water basically becomes hazardous waste when used in this type of application and disposal is annoying. It's more easy to deal with in industrial settings which is probably why Nexa3D targets that market.
Are there any resins for regular printers that are very flexible? I'm using Siraya Tech Tenacious, but it's not quite tacky enough when done. It's better than regular resin, but I need an item with 4 small feet (about 1.5" square) to sit on a rounded surface (drink tumbler on its side) without sliding off.
Hey Joel, I've been considering trying to get a XiP at work. We already have a Form3 that we're using regularly. Would you say you get better and/or faster prints off of the XiP? Anything I should be aware of with it?
Best to hear from Joel himself, but the XiP is significantly faster and cheaper to run than the Form3. Check out the comparison document and request some samples! nexa3d.com/nexa3d-vs-formlabs/
@@Nexa3D Hi, when are you going to fix your light source in the XiP so it's on par with Nova3D and Uniz? Or should we just print minis and figurines at an angle to hide the "grid artifact"? Thanks in advance for your reply!
Would be interesting to see if it works the same if you just put the whole curing station in a big bucket filled with CO₂ instead of the mold release and the water.
Transparent resins are the most common type of resin prone to unpleasant discoloration. If there's anything to try the mold release process on outside of these flexible resins, it's clear resins.
I was thinking the exact same thing. If I can get clear prints with cheaper resin, I'm sold. Siraya Tech is awesome, but expensive.
I think the process is too hard to control (your "white" models were different shades with the newer one more yellow), and takes more away from 3D printing than it adds.
Try putting the yellowed one in hot water for several minutes and it will likely de-yellow. I have to do this with all of my white resins - I cure them in water at 45C, then put them in 100C water for several minutes, let them cool down and they go back to being as white as they were printed (and sometimes more white).
Interesting video joel
Lots of questions
1) what is the long term effect....I.e. will it still yellow over time?
2) will it work with non flexible resins?
3) will it work with clear resin?
4) do you need the mould release? Or is it just the more gentle cure?
High five to you too. Love seeing more resin printers. Do you think a vacuum chamber would remove enough air (and oxygen with it) that you could use that instead of having to dunk? Super curious and maybe it works! Would be drier than water.
A vacuum chamber would definitely work, or a co2/nitrogen purged chamber could also work
Remember, the water is supposed to have better refractive qualities (relative to curing effect) for the UV light than air...
I've never tried mold release, but I always do water curing even when not using flexible resin. I've yet to have any discoloration issues, whether with light colored resin or with transparent resins. I'd be interested to see if you get the same results while skipping the mold release step.
Never heard of using mold release but man you cannot argue with those results. Very nice!
vacuum or nitrogen are fine
If oxidation during curing is a problem then why not use clear PVA instead of spray on mold release. Water could then be used to dissolve away the PVA after curing.
I've found that the refractive properties of water help tremendously in curing the inside of hollow models.
Well I know the quick siraya tech quick resin explodes in water so that one would not be a good one. Not sure if they finally added that info with that resin.
Coulda swore all resin prints had to be cured under UV light and would remain tacky until that’s done. If you just rinse, you’re not done.
This is awesome - but what does the Mold Release actually serve? Why can't you plop it into the water without the Mold Release? I'm just curious
Mold release prevents the green part from absorbing moisture and the water prevents oxygen from impacting cure surface quality
@@Nexa3D Thank you for Clarifying! I am going to try this with my Resin
You should have tried it without the mold release and UV cure in distilled water. See if you really need the mold release step.
The ONLY thing I don't like about flexible resin is trying to remove it from a flexible build plate. Those plates are usually great but when you flex it with these resins the model just bends with it!
I wonder how this process would affect clear resin brands that tend to yellow during "normal" post curing.
does it work with clear glass like prints though
This Nexa3D wash and Cure Station looks exactly like my Anycubic Wash&Cure 2.0 Station, but with a different cover.
Did they just rebrand this thing and sell it as their own?
That piece of hardware is white labeled by Nexa3D and by Anycubic as well. Neither make it as far as I know.
I have found it very difficult to eliminate the tacky/shiny surface on a lot of resin models. I've gotten best results with a 3 stage wash process where the third stage is an ultrasonic heated bath. But I still don't get results like this. I'll have to try the new process and see how it goes. Thanks for the video!
you should change the resin or you have a printer with a few mmw/cmsqr
color me shocked, as I wouldn't have known the difference had you not told me one was ugly and one wasn't, they both look good to my eyes
OMG an hour to cure?? I always do 2 mins, turn it on it's side, and 1 min.
Does the resin also make the boing noise?
What does the mold release do in this situation is it a barrier between the water and print? Does it react to the resin? What’s the silence behind it
The 'mold release' is an oxygen barrier, pal.
@@retromodernart4426 cool thanks will this work with regular resin prints as well or could it effect the other types of resin?
@@craiggordon2502 Assuming the resin being used is reasonable or better quality, it should work for regular resin prints (there's nothing special about the Nexa3D XiP besides a special film it uses in the resin tank instead of FEP or PFA (aka "nFEP").
@@retromodernart4426 thanks 😄
Looks like an Anycubic Wash and Cure plus, so let's try putting some aluminum foil in the cover of our Anycubic Wash and Cure Plus, let's spray some models with Pam or silicone spray (the pure stuff) or some other polysiloxanes, then water cure it.
Do it!
@@3DPrintingNerd What makes you think I didn't do it, and more?
Just because you are so astonished at the shiny new (to you) concept of "water curing" and oxygen barrier techniques, and a USD $7000 3D 🍋resin printer that uses the same wash and cure machine as Anycubic (of course with shiny mylar in the cover) and makes that horrible "grid artifact" which Nova3D and Uniz printers don't?
In any case, you tube doesn't allow links to anything but you tube videos, which you must have seen on this topic a few years ago already(?), so you'll have to look up the decades of practical papers on these things yourself, LOL
Finally, please show the Nexa3D XiP light source quality by printing a 10cm L x 10cm W x 3mm thick square flat on the build plate and show the face that is not facing the build plate, as a matter of fact do that for every MSLA 3D printer you have and/or review, you'll get lots of views and likes from viewers, but maybe not so much from 3D printer manufacturers...
Very interesting. I have not used that process before and I think 60minutes of cure time is so much. Maybe it's just the material, but I've never had any resin turn yellow like that. I will add, the parts that I left in the AZ sun in July for 10 hrs, those were yellow like that, but that's way longer.
Cure time is dependent on the size and geometry of the part, but most of our industrial materials require 30-60 minutes to reach appropriate tensile strength. White and clear resins when exposed to large amounts of UV (and the AZ🌞) will yellow over time.
Based on on-screen appearance, is it also somewhat less flexible after the extended curing?
I believe the final product is the one that meets the manufacturer's stated flexible rating. Right off the build plate, it is much more flexible than intended.
Hey Joel, this may not have been your intent, but you've certainly put me off getting a resin printer. Soooo much fuss and (potential) mess afterwards. Thanks!
You're upset because he used a resin machine?
Having started both resin and FDM printing at about the same time, I found resin much easier to get in to and get printing consistently good prints. Yeah the post processing is a bit more work, but it's all much more straight forward than FDM.
I have some guesses as to the chemical reaction and tricks as to why the process is such. I would guess that something like this is used for higher accuracy prints actually.
For sure! The mold release prevents water absorption into the green part, and submerging in water prevents oxygen from inhibiting the surface cure.
I stopped watching at 09:28 .
What do I think wel to be honest totally Honest .
The quality sure is way better than FDM printing yes .
Skipping back for about a year a was kinda harsh about the Creality belt printer and I will apologise because after way more reviews i do need to say the Belt printer can do long prints and in my case it would be great to be able to print long train track parts .
Now Let’s get back to topic .
The Quality yes resin looks awesome indeed no real visible layer lines .
The ability to print smooth parts and small figures like warhamer 40K ore even lego pieces .
But then the part i do not like at all because i wil be honest .
The proces steps after the printer is done printing .
To much chemicals what makes printing things way to expensive .
So for me I love watching you Joel .
I did learn allot about FDM printing and the use of Cura .
And that is something I want to talk about .
I have seen U use an Appel mac device .
So I guess you’re using Cura on it .
I Use an old Microsoft laptop for Cura .
And i design with my Apple IPad Pro 2020 .
And it can’t run Cura on it so to slice .
I need to take the STL files on an USB stick when i downloaded my designs from Tinkercad .
To start up the Microsoft piep piep piep Laptop ( Sorry for the pieps I just hate Microsoft allot )
And when I Got it running I load the stl from usb to slice to safe on the Micro USB card .
And then walk over to the FDM Creality printers I got to start printing .
I got 2 Creality 3D pro FDM printers with the volume of 21cm wide 20 cm deep and 23 cm high because i print with an 0.8mm nozzle .
And i am interested in information about a good slicer that can be installed on the IPad Pro 2020 .
An offline version because the one Creality got is online and I bumped into issues with the G-codes .
Most of the time i get layer shifts .
And the printer stops and then keeps on feeding filament .
So I went back to Cura on the piep piep piep Microsoft laptop .
It’s the only thing where I keep the laptop for .
So can you look into it and make a video about a slicer for the IPad Pro users like me .
Greetings The.NL.Pirate.King from the Netherlands .
I hope my Reaction ain’t to long :) .
I wonder if even just using distilled water would change anything cool finding. Cant wait to get a resin printer. Just got myself a 2nd ender 3.
Using hot salt water is bettter.
cool =)
So I wonder what the effect of just putting it into water is, still too much reaction with oxygen?
Uhh….maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but you’re making it sound as if you’re comparing a print that has only been rinsed to a print coated in mold release and properly cured under uv light…..
I feel like leaving the connection points tacky could help them meld together later. 🤔
The mold release was new to me. Not sure though, if i should use this on prints for medical purposes. Probably better not.
Are you serious ??? With all the experience you have, can you tell me about right curing with that Chinese toy??
But WHY the mold release? I've seen the water trick, what's the mold release adding to this?
I like curing in water, after cleaning, with Elegoo water washable resin. I find on larger/thicker prints the water acts as a heat sink and prevents warping. I also find that the water disperses the UV light giving me a more even cure. This means less flipping the part around to make sure all sides are cured. I haven’t tried longer cure times (on purpose) because out of water over curing leads to the parts being super brittle, and resin minis are fragile enough.
As long as my prints are really dry before the final cure I never have any discoloration. Sometimes I leave them out to dry over night. With this tacky flexible resin you have to be careful, any dirt will permanently stick to it.
I use water but without the mold release. Does the mold release do any difference?
Googled this printer and it's like 70k... 👎🏾
0:55 looks like a Safe, Money storage type, door :)
Thats a cool tip and man is that color difference significant! Its like teeth whitening but for 3D prints! ;)
Resin printing is cool, but man that is a lot of work for one print.
You never mention how the yellowed one was cured or for how long. Was it water-cured or air-cured? You mention that 60 minutes is the cure time for that resin, WITH mold release, IN water. What's the "normal" cure time for that resin? Does that resin come in other colors? Do those colors change after curing or is it just white? Conclusions can't be drawn without all the relevant info. I'm not trying to come at you hard and appreciate the effort but I just keep seeing these "scientific" videos about different ways of doing resin-printing-related stuff, and they either leave out critical information, never gather the necessary data in the first place or introduce too many variables and draw incorrect conclusions based on their "science".
One that yellowed cured in air for 8 minutes. Normal cure time for this resin is 60 minutes. It does not come in other colors.
Phrozen Aqua Grey has a long cute time. Warm water I supposed to do some funky stuff too.
I was hoping to see you show how much faster it is to print with Xip, but enjoyed the video nonetheless. Something I'll have to do installments on down the road to buy.
I'd be curious how it would look if you used an ultrasonic IPA bath instead.
Love your videos but There are some things in this video that bother me from a safety perspective. You should use gloves when using mold release as well as wear a respirator and be in a well ventilated area when using it. Mold release is basically PTFE in solvent. Both of which are really bad for your lungs. Not to mention that the water is basically hazardous waste because of the mold release. Next, unless your clean IPA is fresh you do not want to work with it without gloves the uncured resin can for some people give really ba rashes or chemical burns not to mention that IPA is a drying agent and dehydrates the skin. So water curing is a thing and it can have drastically different results. I personally don't use it anymore because the waste water basically becomes hazardous waste when used in this type of application and disposal is annoying. It's more easy to deal with in industrial settings which is probably why Nexa3D targets that market.
Thanks for the video! I would love to see you try this out on some clear resin.
surley slowly
Always ✋
Are there any resins for regular printers that are very flexible? I'm using Siraya Tech Tenacious, but it's not quite tacky enough when done. It's better than regular resin, but I need an item with 4 small feet (about 1.5" square) to sit on a rounded surface (drink tumbler on its side) without sliding off.
Try Liqcreate Flexible X, it's like real rubber.
Hey Joel, I've been considering trying to get a XiP at work. We already have a Form3 that we're using regularly. Would you say you get better and/or faster prints off of the XiP? Anything I should be aware of with it?
Best to hear from Joel himself, but the XiP is significantly faster and cheaper to run than the Form3. Check out the comparison document and request some samples! nexa3d.com/nexa3d-vs-formlabs/
@@Nexa3D Hi, when are you going to fix your light source in the XiP so it's on par with Nova3D and Uniz?
Or should we just print minis and figurines at an angle to hide the "grid artifact"?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
What’s on ur arm?
I have a bit of tendinitis and this helps.
@@3DPrintingNerd oh ok I hope it gets better great video tho can’t wait for the best one
Resin printing is just too much extra shit to contend with for every single print vs the quality you're getting imho.
Almost 2 hour4s? No thanks i will stick with plastic.
Would be interesting to see if it works the same if you just put the whole curing station in a big bucket filled with CO₂ instead of the mold release and the water.
Curing in water is definitely the way to go. I've been doing for a couple years now.