Bogomils Christians Who Rejected the Cross

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  • Опубликовано: 12 дек 2024

Комментарии • 100

  • @ruinezguitar9550
    @ruinezguitar9550 3 года назад +18

    Bosnian here :D Thanks, we Bosniaks were Bogomils before Islam came to our lands somewhere in the late 16th century. We Bosnians have a tendency to be different from our Neighbour Serbs (Orthodox Christians) and Croats (Catholics). We have thousands of tombsotes called "Stecci" from that time. There are lots tombstones with crosses upside down, some without crosses and just a handfull with crosses. Bosnia was in constant danger from their neighbours Croatia and Serbia so they accepted Islam to be in a better position than Serbia and Croatia. And plus there were lots of simialirites between Bogumilism and Islam so they accepted it.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад +1

      Thanks for watching. And for sharing. Yes, our historical choices do seem to make us who we are.

    • @ruinezguitar9550
      @ruinezguitar9550 3 года назад +3

      @@patpryor Yes its proven even to this day that Bosniaks are different mentaly and that we always pick the choises that are weird and inappropriate for that region, compared to our neighbouring countries, even tho 90% of people from these countries (Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia) are descendands of the same tribe.. We just like to be a challenge i guess and tend to "piss off" neighbouring countries just for the sake of it. :D

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад +5

      You're giving Bosnian history a whole new spin:)!!

    • @danilodelibasic1113
      @danilodelibasic1113 3 года назад +3

      You were always Serbs.

    • @Dalmenco
      @Dalmenco 2 года назад +1

      There is no similarity of bogomilism and Islam...How ?

  • @mannurse7421
    @mannurse7421 Месяц назад

    It took me awhile to find what I was looking for which was this video, someone who explained what they were like in practical terms

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  Месяц назад

      Glad the video was helpful. Thanks for watching.

  • @tedperkoski7534
    @tedperkoski7534 3 года назад +6

    a lot of the Bogumils converted to Islam when Bosnia was defeated by the Ottomans.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      Thanks so much for watching my videos. Yes, that is correct; many did convert to Islam at that time.

    • @ruinezguitar9550
      @ruinezguitar9550 3 года назад +2

      most, some fled but the majority stayed in Bosnia and converted. Bosnia was in constant danger from their neighbours Croatia and Serbia so they accepted Islam to be in a better position than Serbia and Croatia. And plus there were lots of simialirites between Bogumilism and Islam so they accepted it.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      @@ruinezguitar9550 Thanks for sharing some of your history.

    • @慎二田中-h5f
      @慎二田中-h5f 8 месяцев назад

      According to me, Bosnia & Albania (Turkey) is controversial multi ethnicity country like Syria & Lebanon (France).

    • @TattooScorpio
      @TattooScorpio 11 дней назад

      Church of Bosnia is mentioned alredy in 4th centruy, from archives, Slavs (Croatian and Serbian tribed) came to Balkan peninsula first in 7th century, they were part of the Polish/Bohemian Slavs peoples... Bosnian Church accepted/Saved Bogomils from Bulgaria who were attacked and cleansed there when Orthodoxy started spreading.. Bosnian Church sticked to teachings of "Arius" who believed that Jesus is a Son of God, as Jesus himself said and talked, from Aramaic (first) Bible ever, Language of Jesus, the Roman priests exiled him to the Illyricum province, to Bosnia. And Bosnian Church also accepted Wulfila, first Gothic Priest, who travel to Bosnia at same time and translated the first Bible to Gothic Language, which also is same belief and teachings of Priest Arius. Old Bosnian peoples are Gothic/Illyrian. When the slavs came, we started mixing a bit. Thats why most of Bosnians turned to Islam, because they didnt accept Orthodoxy teachings or Roman Catholic, and Islam also believes that Jesus is Son of God, Jesus (ISA) is messiah in Koran, AL-MASIH. Not all Bosnians became muslims tho, many other religions too, and they are Bosnians, not serbs or croats. Thats the true history, also all noted by professionals in the area long time ago alredy.. Greetings

  • @elainebright7150
    @elainebright7150 2 года назад +1

    Another interesting video! I had never heard of the Bogomils! Thank you Pat!

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks so much for watching! I'm glad yuo enjoyed the video.

  • @esado5295
    @esado5295 3 года назад +4

    There is old graves in a Bosnia with the tombstones without the cross on it. There's engrave all kind of symbols but there is no cross. It is still standing to the this day to witness their beliefs, believes of Bogumils.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      Thanks for sharing this. Also, the Cathars who might have been closely connected with Bogomils, had the same rejection of the cross. There are some groups today who do the same.

  • @Flumpadorus
    @Flumpadorus 2 года назад +4

    Wonderful video, thank you for taking the time to make this!

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

  • @octavianc3360
    @octavianc3360 2 года назад +1

    A new article: O. Ciobanu, The Role of the Vlachs in the Bogomils’ Expansion in
    the Balkans. in Journal of Balkan and Black Sea Studies

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks for the reference.

  • @funnydude4567
    @funnydude4567 4 года назад +2

    I just found this video after reading about the conversion of Slavs into Christendom! Thank you for this illuminating video!

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 года назад

      You are so welcome! Thank you for watching.

  • @truth12
    @truth12 2 года назад +2

    Excellent information, it corresponds my fathers teachings, and we are from the Balkans , it isn't being taught today thou, I dont think people like to talk about the Crusades inside Europe against other Christian Ideologies....

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks for watching. Yes, people tend to want to forget things from the past that make them look bad; it's the same here in the U.S.

  • @tekaklk928
    @tekaklk928 4 года назад +5

    Great video! They are not discused allot or enough in modern christian theology. Again,loved it

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 года назад +1

      Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. I'm glad you enjoyed this video.

  • @milebobic3458
    @milebobic3458 3 года назад +6

    I would disagree with the view that bogumils of Bosnia converted to islam just because it was more similar than christianity. The fact is that the ruling elites of Bosnia in fact converted to keep their priviliges and therefore so did the peasants. The ruling elites were known to be catholic or orthodox not bogumils. Otherwise the bogumils of Bulgaria and other places would have converted to Islam as well. Where the Albanians Bogumils too? No. But their ruling elites did convert and the people followed suit.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      Thanks for watching and sharing your insight into this topic.

    • @tareqhabebe2297
      @tareqhabebe2297 3 года назад

      @@patpryor nice answer from you. let this serb talk hes propaganda. bosnia is only balkan country with kinds of stones who bogomils used and we have thousands and thousands of it. where ottomans came, bogomils mostly comverted to islam. dont forget bogomils were very similar to muslims - 5 prayers at day, friday prayer, didnt like cross, just like muslims. about serbs, i cant judge one toxic comment on youtube, but my dad did need to defend hes country from these people when he was 16 for almost 4 years. these people took my fathers young life and houndert thousand of others. in bosnia every second man has ptsp and they are up to today claiming our country and our culture and praying for those who did genocide in my country on my earth. thank you for this nice and education video, its very nice from you.

    • @solyoluborovic5751
      @solyoluborovic5751 3 года назад +2

      @@tareqhabebe2297 "Bosnian" doesn't exist as distinguished nation or creed. Bosnians are Serbs ( mostly) converted to Islam during Ottomans. You can distinguish yourself as much as you want ,that's your right, but you Bosnian are Serbs and we appreciate you and always will. The 90' war was imposed on us and financed by Vatican and West They only know how to create wars and gain profit for their greedy, blood sucking ,appetites! We have to know better, my brother , for our future sake or they will destroy us ALL! ..much love and I'm TRULY SORRY for our evil deeds back in 90' s and any of your personal suffering . We are brothers ..

  • @funnydude4567
    @funnydude4567 4 года назад +1

    I have a question though. Because of their iconoclastic status and lack of symbology, can physical evidence or pictorial lineage be traced? Do we know what services really looked like or if any type of imagery was ever used?

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 года назад +2

      Thank you for your question. As far as I know they believed that the images and the cross were idols and the veneration of saints and relics idolatry. Therefore, images would not have been utilized. As they built no churches or monuments the only evidence available is through their doctrinal record. I don't believe we can know what their services were really like. We know what they rejected. They insisted on eliminating the rituals of the Orthodox church including the sacraments. I can only imagine them as informal meetings with prayer, teaching, and singing but that is my interpretation. The Cathars who were organized and trained by Bogomil bishops have left the same legacy. There is more information about the Cathars than about the Bogomils and that might be helpful in your studies.

  • @faanengaaw7357
    @faanengaaw7357 3 года назад +3

    Infact christianity never took the cross in the very beginning. In the beginning the fish was actually the symbol of Christianity until later Christianity took away the fish & adopted the cross.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад +1

      Thanks for watching. Yes, the fish was used as a Christian symbol. We often see it in logos for churches today.

  • @KerryFreemanMelbourne
    @KerryFreemanMelbourne 2 года назад

    Amazing info.Thankyou for these videos.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks for watching. Glad you liked it.

  • @francisfischer7620
    @francisfischer7620 Год назад

    I couldn't agree more. My Grandma left me her gold cross and I can't begin myself to wear it.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  Год назад

      Thank you for watching. That's interesting. Many Christians see the 'empty' cross as a sign of victory over death. Jesus is no longer on the cross because he is risen, therefore it has no power. The only group rejecting the cross today (of Christians) are the Jehovah Witnesses for the same reasons as the Bogomils. I am glad that you found my video informative on this issue.

  • @TattooScorpio
    @TattooScorpio 11 дней назад

    Church of Bosnia is mentioned alredy in 4th centruy, from archives, Slavs (Croatian and Serbian tribed) came to Balkan peninsula first in 7th century, they were part of the Polish/Bohemian Slavs peoples... Bosnian Church accepted/Saved Bogomils from Bulgaria who were attacked and cleansed there when Orthodoxy started spreading.. Bosnian Church sticked to teachings of "Arius" who believed that Jesus is a Son of God, as Jesus himself said and talked, from Aramaic (first) Bible ever, Language of Jesus, the Roman priests exiled him to the Illyricum province, to Bosnia. And Bosnian Church also accepted Wulfila, first Gothic Priest, who travel to Bosnia at same time and translated the first Bible to Gothic Language, which also is same belief and teachings of Priest Arius. Old Bosnian peoples are Gothic/Illyrian. When the slavs came, we started mixing a bit. Thats why most of Bosnians turned to Islam, because they didnt accept Orthodoxy teachings or Roman Catholic, and Islam also believes that Jesus is Son of God, Jesus (ISA) is messiah in Koran, AL-MASIH. Not all Bosnians became muslims tho, many other religions too, and they are Bosnians, not serbs or croats. Thats the true history, also all noted by professionals in the area long time ago alredy.. Greetings

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  11 дней назад +1

      Thanks for watching and sharing this information with us.

  • @kilowhiskeyalpha6078
    @kilowhiskeyalpha6078 3 года назад +2

    Mythology tells us that the dueling gods are brothers, Osiris and Set, Zeus and Poseidon, Enlil and Enki, Baal and Yahm, Michael and Satan. One being the demiurge or adversary the other a guardian, King and sage. This is the basis of the ancient philosophy that cannot be eradicated, it will retreat underground when threatened to re emerge in a new form.
    Currently this is an age of the adversary, the King having been vanquished pro tempore to the underworld symbolised by the sea or water, there is no heavenly connection except for the mystery initiate.
    The adversary thrives on the acquisition of power which is played out through politics which of course reveals the fact that certain politicians are in service to this being and that an agenda is in play to conserve the status quo. The guardian figure will do what is necessary to obstruct and ameliorate policies which contradict the divine plan. The guardian is not alone many influencers around the world are of the light, powerful divine beings who know not their true identities (all who incarnate are subject to the veil) but will defend the divine plan through instinct which is one of spiritual/cosmic reinstatement. The King is bound to return at a time known as the crossing point of light which is almost upon us.
    The crucifix is a symbol used to confirm the diabolic status of this age having been sponsored by the Roman cult it symbolises victory of the adversary over the King.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      As always, thank you for the informative comment.

  • @who6184
    @who6184 3 года назад

    Baruk Haba Bashem YAHUWAH RAPHA NISSI ELOHAI TSEVA’OTH!!!!! Shalom Mishpacha.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад +1

      Thanks for your support. Hope you are enjoying all of the videos. Peace to you.

  • @GeorgeFhore
    @GeorgeFhore 9 месяцев назад

    Hi, thank you for making this video i have enjoyed it. Not much is known about the Bogumils of Bosnia. I do believe that mass conversion of the Bosnian Bogumils to Islam was not because they liked the religion but it was to gain protection from the never-ending persecution of them by the Vatican and they secured their existence by converting.
    Interesting thing about them is they had a "chief" or a DJED in original term which was the main person in the region for which was responsible for all affairs and decisions for the community and yet old Egypt also had a DJED which was highly praised symbol for stability and prosperity - whether the two are connected is unclear to me but would like to investigate more as Bosnia has giant pyramids as well :)

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  9 месяцев назад

      Thanks for watching; I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

  • @Iknowknow112
    @Iknowknow112 3 года назад +1

    Thanks for the video Pat. You mentioned tracings the origins of these sects and I wondered if you knew of the Tondrakians of Armenia who were Christians communists of the 7th (?) century but whose roots go back to Mazdak another communistic group with Manichaean/Zoroastrian roots. Both of these groups had clear “Gnostic” associations. Sort an ancient version of Liberation Theology!
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tondrakians#History

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      Thanks for the tip. Am doing some research on them. No, I had not known about the Tondrakians before. I appreciate your support.

  • @ticertice9132
    @ticertice9132 4 года назад +3

    The Cathars I believe are from the teaching of Mary Magdalene, she went to France, it's possible the original Disciples just taught many places , that's why their is similar teachings found in places, such as France, now you said that they didn't get baptized, something to think about, I wouldn't doubt the history we know of sects that are similar have been added to their practices to alter their view points and change the value of its origins and put down by these allegations. And it's a big list, who's knows maybe all of them that have similar teachings, a stile of a pen and hundreds of years later will do that, but to know the real facts you must try to understand truths that if possible been altered from its true state, for by the victories , hardly any words of them of their opponents should be taken as truth, for hey them selfs were most likely on the opposing side, which most likely was of evil , by force, money and sins, the Catholic Roman Church.
    If they never existed these sects would still exist today, so again the history we know most likely is around 7% truth when it comes to what were told .
    The closest we might get is the Cathars, and I wouldn't listen to that pen who says their descendents because Mary Magdalene went their, they celebrate her every year and have her body remains .
    I understand research is what it is, but you must understand history allowed to be printed is not the same as actually events or teachings, the nag hammadi Library is what was being taught, hidden and destroyed it seems, when you look at when you look at some of them books as being true, then you will know, and another thing only a insider would know full teachings, how could a writer know, even then it was a secret teaching, so a guess is they were extremely upset because of this , and did what they did, ruined truths made up facts added myths and came up with stories

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 года назад +2

      Thank you for your comment. I will be teaching about the Cathars at a later time. Yes, it is very difficult to discern the truth about the teachings of some of the past groups without original writings. You are correct, relying on the writings of their enemies makes it especially difficult to know exactly what they believed or how they practiced their faith.

    • @ticertice9132
      @ticertice9132 4 года назад

      @@patpryor it's sad how everything is, I know i could be punished if wrong, but I have faith those dreams are from the real God.
      Please pray for me, people get curve balls in life, well this is like a invisible ball that I'm thinking I already hit, is it a home run, I hope so because i already ran, funny thing is I see see the score board, and it says 1-0 but is the game over ?

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 года назад +1

      I will leave a message on your channel. It is in the discussion section.

    • @Antreus
      @Antreus 4 года назад

      @@ticertice9132 Lord Jesus bless you

  • @andrewclemons8619
    @andrewclemons8619 Год назад

    I've noticed that alot of preachers focus on the virgin birth of Jesus, then the death and resurrection of Jesus and Paul's epistles while largely ignoring the moral teachings and Parables of Jesus.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  Год назад

      Thanks for watching! I appreciate your taking the time to comment. Yes, many scholars believe, and I agree with them, that Christianity is the religion taught by Paul and not that of Jesus. It became a religion about Jesus and not the religious teachings of Jesus. I guess that would be a good topic for a video; what do you think?

    • @andrewclemons8619
      @andrewclemons8619 Год назад

      @@patpryor I think it would be a great topic Pat. Thanks for doing such great work

  • @bor4oborisov
    @bor4oborisov Год назад

    The beginning is not in 10th century. It’s tradition older than but in full harmony with original christianity. This tradition didn’t end either. You can follow it till first half of 20th century in Bulgaria( read about white brotherhood). This tradition lives in almost everyone on Balkans. The war against it will never end.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  Год назад

      Thanks for watching and sharing your comment.

  • @goatamongsheep4296
    @goatamongsheep4296 3 года назад

    Pat, are you an adept of the Roman faith?

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад +2

      I appreciate you taking the time to comment and ask questions. No, I am not a member of the Roman Catholic Church or affiliated with them in any way. I am a student and a God-follower learning about many religions and spiritual movements which I try to present on this channel.

  • @ltsoul9751
    @ltsoul9751 3 года назад +1

    It hasn't always been there

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 года назад

      Thanks for watching my video and taking the time to comment. I appreciate that.

  • @stm5258
    @stm5258 10 часов назад

    Bosnian King compromised with Islam because they were being persecuted by their common enemy, the Catholic church, so that's how Islam gained a foothold there. Bogomils rejected Catholic Church teaching and authority to remain faithful to Pauline doctrine of scripture, textus receptus manuscript scripture.

  • @simeonsimeonov5205
    @simeonsimeonov5205 3 месяца назад

    Indeed Bogomils never rejected the cross it is a bit different though!

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  3 месяца назад

      Thanks for watching.

  • @selmathornton5489
    @selmathornton5489 4 месяца назад

    Before 10th Century

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 месяца назад

      Thank you for watching and for your comment.

  • @elitsaivanova4385
    @elitsaivanova4385 2 года назад

    All begins in Bulgaria...... The world dosnt know or gorget our history because we were very powerfull, we - the bulgarians and the Bulgarian tsarstvo , empire on the Balkans. Pop Bogomil is invited in from Boyan Maga who is son of bulgarian tsar Simeon

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks for watching.

  • @kaivalia2003
    @kaivalia2003 4 месяца назад

    Los primeros y autenticos cristianos siempre fueron perseguidos y eliminados por Roma.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 месяца назад

      Gracias por mirar. Sí, la iglesia romana era muy poderosa.

  • @summermoon4620
    @summermoon4620 Год назад

    Bosnians never found religion or preference till this day in my opinion. Today they are trying to engage more into religion simply trying to find themselves looking back through history where they belong but believe somewhere deep inside we all know we don’t belong to Islam or Christianity we are kinda lost but still free from all religious influence. Don’t take me wrong we will join to all religious celebrations and religious rituals but simply it’s not there deep inside it’s Fake and we know that but can’t explain why .

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  Год назад

      Thanks for watching and sharing your ideas about religions in Bosnia.

  • @nocommentnoconsent5635
    @nocommentnoconsent5635 2 года назад +1

    BOGOMILS=CATHARS =MOLOKANS=Jesus is a Prophet and A living Man 👨 it’s why many converted to new message of holy Quran to Islam ☪️

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  2 года назад

      Thanks for watching. Yes, that accounts for many Islamic converts.

  • @kyriosbooks8400
    @kyriosbooks8400 24 дня назад

    "For we wanted to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified, the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Cor 2:2 / 1 Cor 1:22)
    Bogomils are heretics.
    Cross of Christ!

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  24 дня назад

      Thanks for watching. Since the Bogomils were from the 12th to the 16th century, they probably aren t something for you to get upset about. This is history.

  • @selmathornton5489
    @selmathornton5489 4 месяца назад

    Bogumile.

    • @patpryor
      @patpryor  4 месяца назад

      Thanks for watching.