Thanks Steve ...I made 6 " spreaders from 1/2" well pipe ,after sliding the #14 wires into the notches I had some doubts about some them staying in until seeing your idea with the zip ties ... Hope to catch you on the air some day ... Eric N3TVV
Great videos, as usual Steve. Thank you. This is very similar building techniques that I use here but I am not a fan of using the "silk" wire at all. That's because, in my experience, unless the feed line is kept taught, or the feed line is simply hanging vertically (and taught from gravity), other routings can be problematic because the flexible wire will not maintain spacing. Historically, solid conductor wire has been used for this application to provide stability in all situations. That said, a transition to flexible stranded wire via strain relief methods is useful at the feed point where any movement due to sway or wind could possibly over-flex the wire causing breakage over time. Good construction techniques prevent problems of this nature but it does need attention. My full-wave loop's feed point was put up in 1999-2000 and is still fully operational as is the entire feed line constructed of #12 insulated, solid-copper wire. My spreaders are constructed similarly, using the same tie-wrap method you describe and tie-wraps have survived the Florida sun's UV without issues. My spreader material is a lighter-weight fiberglass tubing which becomes a significant factor for longer runs of feed line. I do like the look of the acrylic however and it characteristically sheds water easily, making it a great choice. Thanks again for the video here and on other topics. 73
VE3EAL Yes but be sure to seal the top end with some hot glue or something. We don't want ice freezing in that tube. It might split. Acrylic is uv resistant and very light weight so a fan dipole would be an ideal use for it. Also that Flexweave wire has very soft insulation and the wire ties squish into it. It won't slip.
Just started using openwire line why didnt I use this feedline years ago its so inexpensive and very efficient. One antenna tunes all bands, coax is fine matched but a very poor feedline with high VSWR. I have discovered that non resonant antennas work well when feed properly.
hi on your update text you say you have changed to 1 inch spacing now using black nylon spacers. Does that mean the two wires are now only one inch apart as opposed to what they were with that 6 inch spreader made of clear acrylic? am i understanding that right>? thanks so much great video
Exactly... 1" spacing is giving around 450 to 500 ohms impedance. For some reason the tuner finds it easier to match. Any other variable is too small to notice.
Steve, 1) how did you determine the 6-inch spacing? 2)Also, what impedance is the ladder line? 300 or 450 ohm or what? 3) Any significance to the 20-inch spreader spacing? Thanks.
Hello Will - my guess about the 20" between spreaders would be so that the correct distance between conductors is maintained while using the minimum number of spreaders. Check the internet for calculators to determine spacing between conductors of a certain wire gauge for your desired impedance. Seeing that this ladder line is part of an antenna system that feeds a matching device (tuner), I'd wager "close is close enough" when constructing your ladder line.
Wow. I am so glad I found this video. How much tubing did you end up buying? How did you get them to cut the spacers for you? I recently acquired a bunch of wire, and I have been thinking about trying out balanced feedline in my shack. Thank you so much for this video. I know this comment comes 5 years late.
Use these instead. They are rugged and cheap. Use black wire ties through the middle, looped around each wire. Super easy. 73 www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/american-farmworks-4-inch-fin-tube-insulators-25-pack?cm_vc=-10005
Good point about sealing the tops. Ice is definitely a factor at my QTH. I just need to find those acrylic tubes (or a decent substitute) here in Canada. How did those pen tubes stand the test of time, sun and ice?
Looks absolutely great! I love how you used the tube and cable tie together like that to form the spreaders. How well have they held up in the sun? I know that the cable ties usually have a limited life due to the sun exposure...
That's probably true but I never kept an antenna up long enough to find out. The black ties should last much longer and you can find some expensive ties that last longer.
Hi Steve, Now that you have had some time using your new setup, how is working for you? I guess the input choke in the bottom of your shed is a common mode filter to help reduce Rf from getting back into the shack, though I am not totally sure. The idea of floating the tuner, RF wise, is interesting. So, you are not using a balun inside the tuner, is that correct? I think you mentioned you had ~130" of wire up, so, I suspect this does not work on 160 or is squirrely. at best. It seems like an interesting setup and just curious if it works as you planned. We had some tree surgery late last spring and I didn't get the antennas back up during this HOT summer. I actually believe I might be able to get ~520' of wire up for a loop, most of it above 60'. I have always had dipoles and a few verticals on the low bands but a loop might be a little quieter. Anyway, very interesting video. 73 de WA4AOS
I have decided that baluns are not for this antenna. I tried a really good one on the input and output but they turned out to be power wasters and made tuning difficult. I simply ground the tuner and one leg of the feeder but I am able to reverse the feeder legs with a relay which gives me a pattern change and an opportunity to null out some local noise.
+Steve Ellington ..... your update indicates that you are using some sort of different spreader.... are you saying that you are just having a 1 inch space between the two wires instead of 6 inch spacing?? Exactly what is this black spacer material?? I am about to put up a 80 meter loop with 450 ladder line but I like your stuff much better.
+cattail3 Yes I chopped up those acrylic spreaders into 1" spreaders and used wire ties again. I find the lower impedance is easier to load. I'm estimating about 350 - 400 ohms now. I'm using 12 ga wire. I've purchased some black plastic spacers from an Amazon dealer to replace the acrylic. The acrylic is already getting brittle from the sun. Here is a link to what I now have although i have not installed them yet. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00137S7M2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
+Steve Ellington THANKS for the info..... I just left you a message on your website didn't think I would hear back from you for awhile! THANKS for the great info..... I think this is the way to go as long as the antenna will load up okay.
The best method I have thus far seen on RUclips. Great for 2-wire reversible beverages, as well.
Very nice looking line. The tie going through the pipe was a stroke of genius.
Thanks Steve ...I made 6 " spreaders from 1/2" well pipe ,after sliding the #14 wires into the notches I had some doubts about some them staying in until seeing your idea with the zip ties ... Hope to catch you on the air some day ... Eric N3TVV
Great idea and very professional looking. Much better than the standard latter line. 73s from Germany
I never had good luck with super glue on Zip ties it always made my Zip ties weak and they would brake very easy. Great Video 73's
Great videos, as usual Steve. Thank you. This is very similar building techniques that I use here but I am not a fan of using the "silk" wire at all. That's because, in my experience, unless the feed line is kept taught, or the feed line is simply hanging vertically (and taught from gravity), other routings can be problematic because the flexible wire will not maintain spacing. Historically, solid conductor wire has been used for this application to provide stability in all situations. That said, a transition to flexible stranded wire via strain relief methods is useful at the feed point where any movement due to sway or wind could possibly over-flex the wire causing breakage over time. Good construction techniques prevent problems of this nature but it does need attention. My full-wave loop's feed point was put up in 1999-2000 and is still fully operational as is the entire feed line constructed of #12 insulated, solid-copper wire. My spreaders are constructed similarly, using the same tie-wrap method you describe and tie-wraps have survived the Florida sun's UV without issues. My spreader material is a lighter-weight fiberglass tubing which becomes a significant factor for longer runs of feed line. I do like the look of the acrylic however and it characteristically sheds water easily, making it a great choice. Thanks again for the video here and on other topics. 73
Great idea. I feel this would also be a good technic for building a fan dipole.
VE3EAL Yes but be sure to seal the top end with some hot glue or something. We don't want ice freezing in that tube. It might split. Acrylic is uv resistant and very light weight so a fan dipole would be an ideal use for it. Also that Flexweave wire has very soft insulation and the wire ties squish into it. It won't slip.
+Steve Ellington I must confess....I soldered the joint at the top. My antenna wire is regular electrical wire from Lowes, 12ga.
Excellent job Great Idea must get some acrylic tube prefer my own ladder line. Thank you
Just started using openwire line why didnt I use this feedline years ago its so inexpensive and very efficient. One antenna tunes all bands, coax is fine matched but a very poor feedline with high VSWR. I have discovered that non resonant antennas work well when feed properly.
hi on your update text you say you have changed to 1 inch spacing now using black nylon spacers. Does that mean the two wires are now only one inch apart as opposed to what they were with that 6 inch spreader made of clear acrylic? am i understanding that right>? thanks so much great video
Exactly...
1" spacing is giving around 450 to 500 ohms impedance. For some reason the tuner finds it easier to match. Any other variable is too small to notice.
Steve, 1) how did you determine the 6-inch spacing? 2)Also, what impedance is the ladder line? 300 or 450 ohm or what? 3) Any significance to the 20-inch spreader spacing? Thanks.
Hello Will - my guess about the 20" between spreaders would be so that the correct distance between conductors is maintained while using the minimum number of spreaders. Check the internet for calculators to determine spacing between conductors of a certain wire gauge for your desired impedance. Seeing that this ladder line is part of an antenna system that feeds a matching device (tuner), I'd wager "close is close enough" when constructing your ladder line.
Wow. I am so glad I found this video. How much tubing did you end up buying? How did you get them to cut the spacers for you? I recently acquired a bunch of wire, and I have been thinking about trying out balanced feedline in my shack. Thank you so much for this video. I know this comment comes 5 years late.
Use these instead. They are rugged and cheap. Use black wire ties through the middle, looped around each wire. Super easy. 73
www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/american-farmworks-4-inch-fin-tube-insulators-25-pack?cm_vc=-10005
Good point about sealing the tops. Ice is definitely a factor at my QTH. I just need to find those acrylic tubes (or a decent substitute) here in Canada. How did those pen tubes stand the test of time, sun and ice?
VE3EAL Pens don't last long. I had them cut my tubes to length before shipping. Labor was cheaper than freight for 8' tubes by far.
nice job Steve
Masterclass in ladderline Steve. Gonna make some at 3 or 4 inch here. 73 Paul G4AFU
Great build quality.. I would of liked to see the center/apex.. Is it continuous 12 gauge through the apex? or a mechanical connection to each leg?
Great speaking with you on 160
What is the benefit of using 600 ohm vs 450 ohm? Seems like such a short length are you able to tune more bands?
In this case, nothing. It just looks cooler.
Great video Steve. What is the name of that 50 ft mast and where can I buy one? Thank you.
Rohn HD50.... Buy at 3starinc
Thank you Steve. I have enjoyed and learned a lot from many of your videos.
Looks absolutely great! I love how you used the tube and cable tie together like that to form the spreaders. How well have they held up in the sun? I know that the cable ties usually have a limited life due to the sun exposure...
That's probably true but I never kept an antenna up long enough to find out. The black ties should last much longer and you can find some expensive ties that last longer.
Hi Steve,
Now that you have had some time using your new setup, how is working for you? I guess the input choke in the bottom of your shed is a common mode filter to help reduce Rf from getting back into the shack, though I am not totally sure. The idea of floating the tuner, RF wise, is interesting. So, you are not using a balun inside the tuner, is that correct? I think you mentioned you had ~130" of wire up, so, I suspect this does not work on 160 or is squirrely. at best.
It seems like an interesting setup and just curious if it works as you planned.
We had some tree surgery late last spring and I didn't get the antennas back up during this HOT summer. I actually believe I might be able to get ~520' of wire up for a loop, most of it above 60'. I have always had dipoles and a few verticals on the low bands but a loop might be a little quieter.
Anyway, very interesting video.
73 de WA4AOS
I have decided that baluns are not for this antenna. I tried a really good one on the input and output but they turned out to be power wasters and made tuning difficult. I simply ground the tuner and one leg of the feeder but I am able to reverse the feeder legs with a relay which gives me a pattern change and an opportunity to null out some local noise.
+Steve Ellington ..... your update indicates that you are using some sort of different spreader.... are you saying that you are just having a 1 inch space between the two wires instead of 6 inch spacing?? Exactly what is this black spacer material?? I am about to put up a 80 meter loop with 450 ladder line but I like your stuff much better.
+cattail3 Yes I chopped up those acrylic spreaders into 1" spreaders and used wire ties again. I find the lower impedance is easier to load. I'm estimating about 350 - 400 ohms now. I'm using 12 ga wire. I've purchased some black plastic spacers from an Amazon dealer to replace the acrylic. The acrylic is already getting brittle from the sun. Here is a link to what I now have although i have not installed them yet. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00137S7M2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
+Steve Ellington THANKS for the info..... I just left you a message on your website didn't think I would hear back from you for awhile! THANKS for the great info..... I think this is the way to go as long as the antenna will load up okay.
Nice video Steve! It was nice to work you tonight on 160/cw 73 de ve3vtg Enzo
I was looking for good way to make my own ladder line. This is the best solution I ever see. Thank you very much for sharing. 73 YU4BAH
Nice job and great video! 73s!
nice work
Slick shack!
K7SAK, 73
Прикольно!!
nice job!
73 da IU1CYF
WHY NOT JUST USE RG-174??!!!