Mark this may be the best video I’ve seen you make in the almost 10 years I’ve followed you. Thank you SO much! This needed to be said - as someone who has fallen for this in the past I can’t tell you how often I felt I’ve lit money on fire due to a fit with improper or limited data
Buyer beware, I suppose golf no different than many other selling environments. Lots of us want the shiny new clubs, want length etc. we would all benefit from a few lessons and proper practice to get some sort of condition before we go down new clubs route. I for one will go to the pro I am having lessons with for any sort of driver fitting but only when I can actually hit it with some consistency and as Mark says knowing the data about the strike is a key point in any fitting. If the pro’s are working with a coach why do we as amateurs and part time players in comparison, think we can have the odd lesson and then buy clubs that will fix any swing issue we might have? It is not a failure to know you need lessons to improve. I know I have a bad out to in swing and casting the club from the top especially when tired, actually trying to stop it feels so strange and unnatural which is the biggest blocker to Me improving not the clubs. Best thing about golf is there is always something you can do better, and when having a bad day on the course there is one area typically that works and keeps bringing you back to the game
To your point, when I went for my driver fitting it took 1 1/2 hours and ended up as much a golf lesson as it was a fitting; after watching this video I feel that I got very lucky.
Went for one at golftec, was not striking to my capabilities at all, I say from nerves from first time in that setting. After a few demo clubs, was asked if I'd rather just take a lesson. Glad he did, it would have been a long hour and half otherwise, felt way more relaxed after aswell
Yeah I believe if you find the right "teacher" not a "fitter" they will be more willing to go the lesson route...I firmly believe it's better to spend that $50/-$1,500 on lessons.
100% agree, I have had some shocking “custom” fits, where the fitter doesn’t even have my level of knowledge of the data and I do not class myself as an expert whatsoever! Really well highlighted.
I’m one of many who picked up golf at the start of the lockdowns. Took advice from others and went and got a “club fitting” obviously bought all new shiny bats. 2 years down the line and having watched 1000 videos (mostly yours) I’ve educated myself sufficiently to know that What I actually did was pay 2 men £50 to pull my pants down!! 🤣
I'm a relatively new club fitter and all the points you made are spot on. The vast majority of the reason is simply the commission structure. Fitters are encouraged to sell as much as possible as fast as possible, so many will resort to manipulative tactics to push sales. Fitters are also discouraged from commenting on someone's swing, as it can lose sales if people know that a simple swing fix will solve their issue rather than a new club. However, I break this rule all the time, and I think any fitter with integrity should be honest and tell someone if they're swinging 8 degrees down with a driver and spinning it at 5000 rpm, the solution isn't the lowest spinning driver and shaft on the market. The solution is a lesson or two to get the proper club delivery. My advice to anyone who's looking to buy new clubs: 1. Find a fitter who is willing to explain why YOUR SWING is producing the results you are getting. This can be done through club data, looking at angle of attack, strike location, club path, loft/lie etc. If you find your guy, you can come back to them every time and know you're getting a worthwhile fitting. Or 2. Pay the money to get fit by a head pro. Preferably get a lesson or two with them before the fitting, so they're familiar with your swing beforehand and have already given you some tips to solve any larger issues in your swing.
Well said, i was fortunate 4 years ago when I got back into golf when i had a fitting for a driver, he refused to sell me one until i had lessons on hitting a driver, he basically explained to me where i was going wrong, stance, ball position etc, he said when i prove to him i can do these things and look like i know what i am doing he will let me try some drivers, then maybe fit me, how integral was that. I am still in touch with him and used him for my rescue, 3 wood, wedges.
Getting lessons just before a fitting is a horrible idea for any half decent player. Then you end up getting fit for a club using a swing that isn't natural to you, because swing changes can take weeks/months sometimes to get used to, which is all ultimately worse and more damaging in the long run. Been playing golf for 20 years so I am speaking from experience. The whole point in club fitting is to fit the club to *my swing* - not fit my swing to the club....that just defeats the whole purpose.
I needed to change my irons as I lack distance with them, however, I decided that lessons was a better investment. I’ve spent £200 on about 10 lessons and this winter I’ve won 5 comp’s and lost 5 shots of my playing handicap. I hardly lose a ball and am a more consistent player than I ever have been. Yes I’ve retired now and can practice and play more but I don’t believe you can radically improve your game with new clubs. I’m still thinking of new irons but would get fitted by the pro who teaches me. That’s the best route as shown here by Mark.
Similar story for me, started playing again last year after 20+ years and I am now 62, booked ten lessons with the pro plus a 6 hole on course look at my game. During this period I wanted a new 3 wood as my old persimmon wood starting to show damage through use. Tested a few and his reply he could not sell me a new club presently as my swing was too inconsistent, I was able to hit most of them as bad or as well as each other. I did buy a 2nd hand set of Wilson’s from him that I was looking at getting new, all he needed was to tweak the lie on them to suit me. There are too many places where a fitting is about 30-45 minutes, indoors with the trackman or GC, I want to see the flight of the ball in real life plus the data the gizmo produces.
@@cartermatthews5303 also we want to play our best, new clubs etc are nice but the vast majority of us know we don’t possess the talent to be scratch golfers and play in top competitions ( even amateur comps). This does not matter though as we love the game and the challenge each round gives us. Break 100, then aim for 90 then 80 ( which more than 90% never achieve). Getting par on the bogey hole we all have on a course, is a big enough win for most of us.
@@Theiliteritesbian many pro’s in the uk offer very good rates for block bookings of lessons. Often close to half the price of an individual lesson. My next set as a block of 5 will only be £110
Great video Mark. I did a fitting with Ping’s fitter in Glasgow last year and it was hands down a much better fit than any of the local AG stores provide. I came out with 425 LST and fitter as asking me to play certain types of shot and showing strike location. No hard sell. I then went on to buy said driver and it’s probably the best club I’ve ever purchased. Fitter spent way over an hour with me and was more like a lesson and a confidence boost than a sell. Well done Ping.
Fair play for exploring this topic. My club recently had a manufacturer come to do fittings. They didn’t get me to hit my current irons. 30min with new clubs in 7i only and then at end said do I want to buy them at £1500!
No doubt in my mind, a lesson is more valuable than a club fit. I've been fit once, played the irons for 12 months. I went back to my Mizuno blades, I'm playing better golf & I'm enjoying it more.
This is where Mark’s logic falls down though. He hates the idea of driver shafts being the engine of a club. This is fair - he’s done plenty of blind tests to show you end up with very similar results. However, he says he prefers a very light shaft because he can swing faster. So he does acknowledge that feels matter. Over a season he may be much more consistent with a 45g stiff than a 75g X. This proves to a point, that fittings do matter. He also has a very aggressive combo set where he uses hybrids after a “6 iron” (his is actually closer to a traditional 4. Again proving fitting is super important for the particular club. You, for instance, probably should not be playing a mizuno blade 4 iron. Almost nobody other than the top few in the world should be. There is just flat out better ways to fit that spot in the bag. I’m nearly a +2 cap and would never play a blade 4 iron because even though I hit it out the middle 9/10 times, the spin, launch, and ball speed are not what they could be from a different option in that loft. All up, fitting poor golfers for a new driver will not get the gains purported by many big box fitters. The big gains come from getting the loft of the head, length of shaft, and the lie of the club right. Fitting has a place but high end shaft fitting is most important for golfers that are at an extreme level of consistency. Even at my level I find shaft for a driver doesn’t make a huge difference so long as it’s stiff enough. Shaft deflection at speed is a big deal and results in inconsistency. Past that it’s about putting a good swing on it.
@@grimwalrus9410 its all about the shaft weight. i switched to lighter shafts 96g (S) on my irons and it has changed my life. 8 handicap. have driver fitting sunday. cant wait.
I totally agree - my experience of fitting over the last couple of years has been very consistent in that I know more about the factors that impact the performance than the fitter and that the fitters are not interested in detailed club head measurements because that might point to a skill deficit rather than a new gear sales opportunity. I also find it comical that most fits are done in-doors and fitters either use the older GC2 units without the HMT or are using Trackman - GC2 without HMT has no ability to provide club head data and using Trackman indoors negates the biggest benefit that the unit has over GC4, namely being able to see the entire flight of the ball and not having to estimate what's going on with the ball. As a result, I only go into golf shops to test out the look, sound, and feel of a given combo of club head and shaft - and I fit myself based on the knowledge I've gained over the last decade.
not only that but theyre going to want to sell whatever generates the most proft/commission. also - irons used are generally only 7s - you dont try them from different lies - no bunkers - you dont get to try different grips and shafts - alot of shop workers have out of date ideas/rules i know you already said it, however: - fitters know fuck all its pretty embarrassing for them when i think i know fuck all, but then they say something stupid like "for putting your right eye must be directly over the ball" or some physics fact which i know to be incorrect (or at the least dodgy).
The word “fitter” is a loose term . If it’s free I’m not saying you can’t get a good fit but if there is no skin in the game from the customer it’s easy to walk away. There is a sales process but the end goal shouldn’t be only to sell clubs.
I had a driver fitting at a Mizuno fitting day. Tried 4 shafts with the same head, chosen based on my own driver data set (10-15 drives after warm up), found a shaft that delivered 90% of the 25 drives i hit within 20 yards total dispersion (distance and width), swapped out to the other shafts i tried and they were the same as the first time i hit them, back to the ideal shaft and boom , straight back to the same area as the previous set. All of the data showed the strike and path was OK, it was my old driver (15 years old) or the shafts that were just not suitable. I was very happy with the process and results as I don’t think i could have achieved what i ended up doing with my current equipment. I do think there is a difference between going to a club pro or fitting day rather than a store like American Golf. Personally would never go back to them, they are a big retailer, they have no interest in your once you have left the store
Great video Mark.... 100% agree. I was going to get a new driver this year but instead I spent that money on lessons. Was the best decision I have ever made for my golf game.
Good points, Mark. With all that said, how does the average golfer find a qualified fitter? One that will help us and not just sell clubs. Now that's an eye-opening video!
Stay away from a franchise golf store. Look at reviews for locally owned shops. Ideally you want a shop with good reviews where either the owner, or a co-owner performs the fitting. You can tell, if they care about a great fit or just a sale. A lot of the better places will charge for a fitting, but give you credit toward a purchase. If they are good enough to require you to book a fitting and charge money, there is a reason they can.
I love it Mark , this is my BIGGEST complaint about trying to by new equipment. I cant trust ANYONE in retail , even the custom fitters. I just do my homework , get to know my swing with each club and then try the brands I have access to and then make my decision. Then again I am a fanatic when it comes to golf so I spends lots of time researching , I know most people wont or cant.
This was a very interesting video but if you want a new club to solve problems your already in trouble. If you go for a club fitting you've gone with the intention of buying so thats what they will do, fit you for and sell you a club. Mark you've showed the value of lessons over thinking clubs will solve all. 👌
Nailed it….And this is why I’ve never been fit. I know it’s important and needs to be done, but the fear of being sold and not fit keeps me in my off the rack clubs
I was fit for new irons based on the impact being measured on my current ones consistently showing as low toe. Newer more forgiving irons straightened me out. That said, I took that impact data and also made changes to my swing to get closer to centre strikes. I would kill for my own GC Quad! As Faldo said to Rick Shiels the launch monitors are the biggest advances in Golf technology.
Great video. I was told to spend $400 for a club based on 3 yards more distance. I really did not care about 3 yards so I did not buy. Thank you for your honesty and I think you are right. For the cost we deserve not to be herded like cattle. This is why so many people watch your videos.
Thankfully, my coach is also my fitter so a fitting session is always a blend of a lesson to improve strike and a fit. When I tested my TSi4 driver, I went through 5 shafts to find the one that felt the best and then we worked on delivery and face control to manage strike. Dropped 1000rpm, improved accuracy and added distance. It's an absolute weapon on course!
I went for a full bag fitting, I was only looking to upgrade my irons but look to get my woods and hybrids set correctly, the experience I had was very good, they knew from the start that I wasn’t looking to buy there and then and gave me all the info I needed to help my game
Absolutely love this!!!!!! I have had a similar (good) experience with fitters in my area. Went in to try new product but ended up getting some setup advice and the outcome was that what I had in the bag was fine and nothing new was going to make a significant gain. Combining fitting and coaching is a great way for golfers to get the best advice. The place I go to charges for fitting, slightly cheaper rate than a lesson, however you dont feel pressured to buy product so you trust the advice as opposed to going to a sales focussed store. A 'free' fitting takes margin away from the retailer - and the margins are not great on equipment. A booked out lesson and fitting diary with happy returning clients is a really good business model. Spend 25-30 on a fitting session where the advice is your current club is fine is a way better than a 'free' fitting where you walk out with a new £450 club that is marginally bettrer (if at all)
And I bet by giving the correct advice if you decide to purchase they will be the 1st place you would visit, good honest customer service is everything.
Fittings all come down to the professionalism of the fitter. My first fitting screwed me up more than you can imagine. I did the math and watched Ian Fraser on txg. It completely changed my game. Gains and control were unimaginable.
Are you doing an upper body / lower body split? I like to work chest / tris on day one, bis and fores for day 2, then legs followed up with a shoulders / back routine. I've gotten good gains from this, without over training. Albeit I need to up my protein intake, maybe some BCAAs. The key for me in making gains is plenty of rest, nutrition, intensity and consistency using progressive over load, go to failure and negatives towards the end of the final sets. My ball distance has gone up considerably, but need to spend more time on the short game after all the goal is to get the ball into the hole, and fifty yards in is where scores either go up or down considerably. Those days I'm not blasting legs I'll do bleacher sprints and planks. The core has tightened up alot and there's so much more power as I come through the ball. My body feels like a coil unwinding and the arms just drop into place. Thanks
I have had 2 fittings in the last 2 years, 3 wood and irons and they were both good in their own way. I’m an easy fit as med swing speed but good smash and face to path. I think the biggest issue with irons is how manufactures and reviewers talk about blending, but how can we get that done when most fitters only have a 6 or 7 iron for fitting purposes?
after all this custom fitting stuff over the years, i've come to the conclusion that its better to pick clubs that you like playing and just go out and play golf. pretty simple. So many variables in real golfing situations that a custom fitting couldn't possible capture. Play clubs you feel good about. That's the top and the bottom of it
Hit the nail on the head. There’s too much information out there online in a sense. Stop worrying so much about getting “fit.” A lot of golfers have it in their mind that custom fitting or lack thereof, is the reason they suck at golf. It’s all b.s.
@@quinnready2936 get a few inches longer in the shaft if you're really tall. You can adjust your game to lie angles etc. For most amateurs, that stuff is marginal for their overall scoring anyway
@@tankeater im just saying that there are so many variables in golf. Hitting off mats on gc quad tells you nothing about real golfing conditions. Most amateurs cant even hit consistent enough off mats for the data to be meaningful. Getting a set of clubs and practising will do far more for your game than getting a fitting. Better players will get more out of it. Pros know what they want and fittings obviously benefot them much more than amatuers
Mark, finally someone who is making sense is you. Its all about selling the product instead of being honest with the consumer. As a fitter you should be true not just lets sell you this new club because it will get you what your looking for which most have no idea on all the numbers and what they really mean. Thanks for giving all of us a heads up on what we should be looking for in a custom fitting. Bravo Mark!
This is a thinking man's approach, and one of the most valuable golf videos I've seen. The way Mark speaks about the data (and makes the point that more data is always better than less) is very smart. I am pretty new to the game and was fortunate that my fitter was all about the numbers and was quite patient with me in examining them. A good fitter is also an educator. Thanks for putting this together.
Was that at a Titleist specific centre or a multi club fitting centre. Just seen on James Robinson channel the Mizuno fitting at their centre is £500 😮😮
Bringing us over to the seller’s POV is revealing in such great ways. Thanks Mark!!! We do deserve better…which makes me glad you’re here proving it to us. Much love bruh!!! You’re one of the reasons I don’t impulse buy drivers every year! It’s already doing it’s job…I just needed to do mine better judging from the potential I put in…. This is like a magician showing how tricks are done and I appreciate it!
Great Video! I’ve always thought there should be different levels of fitting based upon a player’s skill or handicap. 1. Beginners - static fitting is fine since beginners hit it all over the club face. Just need to make sure the clubs are not too long or short and shaft flex and weight appropriate. 2. Bogey golfers - lie adjustments, shaft flex, custom lengths, some trackman work mostly to optimize adjustable clubs. All clubs in the bag can be fit in 1-2 hours. 3. Elite golfers, single digit handicaps, golf-a-holics, or anyone willing to spend several hundred dollars on a fitting - consistent ball striker, extensive trackman work - Club fitting broken down into multiple sessions so there’s enough time to get adequate trackman data and analyze it. Irons and hybrids one session, driver and fairway woods another session, wedges a different session and putter a separate session. For the golfer wanting to dial in their numbers because they can consistently repeat their distances and want to save every stroke possible in their game.
I agree with you 100% here. I actually went to PGATSS and got fit in the studio for a driver. It was closer to the static fitting you mentioned for step 1. I was coming from a super flimsy calaway strata box set driver and upgraded to a Ping g425 max with a stiff shaft. Afterwards I started to approach being a bogey golfer. I went back to the same guy to upgrade my irons from the calaway strata set. After about an hour and a half, the fitter gave me the exact same lesson Mark did in this video. My dispersion was all over the place because my wrist position at impact was too inconsistent. He said that originally he would’ve fit me into a 2 degree upright, but after the swing change, I’d stay at standard. So he told me to practice this and come back in a few months. I have to say that my ball striking became more consistent afterwards. I look forward to going back to him when I’m ready to upgrade.
There's very little that a custom fit will fix. There's a ton that can be fixed with some coaching and time on the range. Thank you Mark, this is why we love you! You're a consumer watchdog and I've been recommending you channel for years
On two recent occasions I have been to American Golf stores to try out new equipment. Once to check out new irons prior to their release date and on another occasion to test the numerous new drivers which are now available. Both times I went through their 'fitting process'. I consider myself to have a good understanding of the variables which make certain golf clubs work to a golfers full potential and I understand that for many so called fitters, achieving sales is their business. Whilst AGs fitting process is far from the best, to their credit I was told on both occasions that they could not improve on my current clubs.
Great video. Lazy fitters.. I was custom fitted for irons last year and they only had 7irons to try and compare… I managed to try the u wedge of the se too.. but no gap testing with the whole set.. the clock is always ticking during these sessions.. us customers are just seen as cash on a conveyor belt in my experience
Absolutely spot on. I have had several swing analysis and club fittings. I tend to agree with your analysis but in the end it is up to the customer to press the fitter to meet your requirement. Just a similar process to other large purchases. Stay in the game and get what you need.
This is by far the best content you have ever posted. Should wise us up on lousy and greedy fitters. I also liked the"Why you can not strike your driver" and "Stop hitting bad iron shots" videos. This is the type of information people need.
The moment you had Fergus hit toward the gap in right( Baseball ) then did that ninja checklist to pose him was art! Your video gave every golfer a checklist for their swing so good that it's a gift. Thanks for a HOF VIDEO Mark!
This was one of the best videos I have seen yet regarding "Buyer Beware" in a retail club a rama seller's fitting bay. When I discovered the massive role that the wrist plays in a golf swing (control over club face at impact) my game changed significantly for the better! 20 to 12 hcp. Fitting can be a con but also "lessons" as well. Until I experimented with wrist hinge and experimenting between bowed and cupped on my own was I able to absolutely remove my slice. When a slice does creep back in a round, almost inevitably I got lazy with my wrist cupping angle and I correct it on the next swing / drive. So what criteria does a "fitter" need to pass in order to be considered a "professional" experienced fitter? I suspect none other than good sales skills and a BASIC understanding of the golf lingo. Your chances of a better fitting is by a real professional on staff at a top shelf country club with PGA / USGA / EGA credentials than the big store retailers.
Best golf video I’ve seen for ages. As a high hcp, this really hits home (I have good club speed, high spin, no distance, wide dispersion) and although I’m not looking for a new driver, it hammers home that I need to get on the range and into lessons to get the best out of the club I have, which can then last me 5+ years more.
Wow. Absolutely love this. I've always been a little wary of fitting, mostly because I know I'm poor about feeling whats going on with my body during a swing, and the swing is the most important part. By the same token, I'm happy trying to get functional shots out of my filthy old swing. As always, a load of information to digest. You can see your intent to impart the knowledge for people just to have a fighting chance. Its appreciated.👍
I am a 69 year old high handicapper started playing 3 years ago and have always thought it's me not my clubs (20 year old second hand irons callaway big bertha x12). My golf pro proved it by smashing shots with them whilst I was struggling to get a clean contact. Slowly improving with practice and coaching, much better investment than new clubs !!
DANG this is a good video! My favorite part? The few minute set-up lesson and the visualization of swinging to right field. You provided your "secret shopper a lifetime lesson without getting in his wallet. Great work Mark & thank you for this excellent video!
@@user-mv1nz3hs8p I've been on the receiving end of a bad fitter and it has cost me a pile of money to get clubs that work, driver spinning at 1000 backspin?
Great video Mark. I feel this way every time Im club shopping. I got fitted ones before for $250 and i hated every part of it. Guy was just selling me clubs. And some golf lessons i took were the same way. Like they don’t even care about personal swing , just want you to come back as much as you can so it brings business . But its all good . Getting better at golf thanks to channels like yours! Cheers from Chicago
I found a 'fitting lesson' at a golf course here. The pro got $100/hour lesson; I got invaluable advice (driver is fine/ don't bother regripping irons) /things to practice (wider stance at address/shoulder tilt) and a contact for the future IF I ever want to fit/buy new gear.
Do we deserve more? Absolutely! Last fitting I had, no club head data was collected and I didn't even get to see a readout of averages. It was basically just an open test of different clubs I wanted to try with different shafts that I wanted to try, and the conclusion the theater came to was the one that felt best in my hand. The unfortunate part is I can't quantify that with any data. Cheers Mark! You are golf's greatest fact checker!
In most of my fittings I've felt the fitter is more interested In selling me a golf club than giving me what is best for me this was a very interesting video and 1 I think ever glue fitter should watch
Mark this was one of the best YT videos i ever seen. You are so correct! The golf industry is full off people you are under trained. MFG need to take a more proactive role to ensure their product is being fitted properly. I wish I could have a session with you. Thanks for pointing out the pit falls of poor fitting and what consumers need to be aware of.
Great info, now as a golfer who stuggles with setup/lead wrist it was refreshing to see you adjusting his set up. Would like to see a 360 degree driver set up video.
Great video with plenty to think about. A newcomer to golf, I am focusing on getting out and hitting my 2nd hand clubs as much as possible and am lining up some lessons. I don't feel a fitting is going to benefit me until I can develop a consistency and effectiveness with my swing and ball strike.
Great video. It’s put me off going for a custom fit for a new driver though whilst I’m working on my swing. Ball speed 168mph but carry of only 250yds shouts out something needs to change in my swing. Thank you Mark!
Hi Mark, I agree with you totally. However, I would say that I started playing golf last May and I have had lessons with my local PGA Pro at my golf course and have built up a good relationship with him. As he knows my game 😂, the advice has been brilliant and he has so many times told me "don't buy this club or that club. Stick with what you have when you get better then we can look at doing more" etc. He is also a fitter, but will not just do a fitting to sell clubs..... I think you need to build a relationship up with your local PGA pro. It has to be the best way to get the right club/driver for you.
I had a driver and wedge fitting at Windmill Golf in Macedonia, OH. My fitting was great, they walked me through all the data they were collecting, and sent it all to me through Trackman. The clubs I was fit for have improved my game. I would definitely recommend getting fit for clubs.
This is so true. Its the same reason that you cant get fitted at most big stores without buying the club(s). And most stores won't give you a printout/email of your fitting/numbers.
I just got fitted down at Precision Golf in Chatswood down here in Aus. Mark's also my coach i've had a few lessons from before who does fitting. He also just works on salary so no commission. Instead of going a new Driver, he recommended me just upgrading my shaft to a stiff shaft and keeping my Sim 1 head (I bought it 2nd hand a few years ago). So VERY happy with the outcome! Saved ~$700 dollarydoos
Great video! I got custom fitted for a driver, fairway wood and hybrid 2 weeks ago by Scott Gourlay Golf Tech in Edinburgh. My fitter, Ross, wouldn’t start the fitting process until my club delivery matched the shot I was trying to hit, which he was keeping an eye on through Trackman and explaining to me what I had to do to deliver the club correctly first and foremost. He also started off the fitting by suggesting I may not even need a new driver, which, given their whole business model is custom fitting clubs is remarkable honesty - he was effectively talking me out of a sale because he wasn’t convinced the performance benefits of a new club would outweigh my current one. I can’t recommend SGGT enough for high quality fitting! There are some great fitters out there and SGGT are one of them. Also got fitted at a local pro shop last night for putter and was told I couldn’t remove the wrapper on the head to trial the model I wanted. Was told, and I quote “the wrapper doesn’t make a difference to the feel of the face”. If that’s the case then why do putter manufacturers spend billions on refining face design 🤷♂️? Had the good and the bad in the past 2 weeks!
I have had the opposite response too fitting, i have had fitting at complete golfer and The golf lab. Both of these fitters were honest, both said get better quality lessons and said while i was there gave me pointers on what to improve on. At the end of my fitting they both said my draw bias driver was not going to help me improve but we went through the fitting process while i was there and both fitters on data suggested exactly the same driver and shaft, most attention to shafts over head head . I have had lessons at Lambourne golf course and it’s completely changed my game , i am enjoying my golf again and the other advice he gave is you have now run out of equipment to improve and said don’t change anything in my set up. More lessons on the way.
You are on the money here Mark, a great insight for people out there. I am a very inconsistent golfer due to lack of practice but i know enough on how to fix myself to get by and I can look at numbers and have enough understanding to what is right and wrong. I have found fittings in large retail stores to be average at best, all they want is quick money. If you want it done properly, you need to go to a dedicated fitter or coach and spend at least an hour to go through the process.
Thanks for your brutish honesty. Would love to see a companion piece showing fitting implications based upon using only a 7 iron. We deserve more in this respect too.
Mark speaking the truth again! Many people will skip this video as it’s not as gimmicky as other RUclips golf videos but so much can be learnt from watching mark!
I happened across a Bridgestone ball fitting recently and I thought it was interesting that they turned off the screen. You just hit balls with 7 iron and driver, at the end they gave your their ball recommendation. I would be curious if you did a driver fitting where the client couldn't see the ball flight on the simulator, how it would turn out. Keep up the good work, Mark.
With you on this one Mark..Had a fitting for a driver at Drummond Golf. Managed to buy the identical driver discounted on gumtree. Took it out for a game. In the real world i could not hit an elephants arse from 5 meters with my purchase. So i sold the club. Lucky i did not pay full retail. Bullet dodged.My handicap is 7.Club fitting is a specialist service and most staff at retailers don't have the skills or time to fit you correctly. Great vid..thanks.
This is so true. Last year on a fitting I brought up this very topic up with the fitter when he was trying to sell me a driver and 3 wood. I did not say anything during the 1sthr of fitting, just smiled and waved so to speak. I then asked if could qualify with him what he was showing me with data and equipment (heads and shafts) he was showing me. This is where his business model fell over and came quite obvious that the numbers and the equipment given were to manipulate towards a specific club. Asked if he would continue to help me with finding what was the best club for my delivery to ball (being a 1 handicap with swing speed of up to 105mph, I am only 51 by the way) but was hesitant and so we parted our ways.
Mark, thanks for another great video, your best one so far. Numbers in the fitting studio do not always mirror the numbers on the golf course. I recommend a club fitter that also uses an outdoor hitting bay so you can see the actual results along with the computer generated numbers.
Went in for a new set of irons at Portsmouth golf centre, took three sessions and I didn’t buy what I thought would suit me. Superb service and attention to details.
Mark, can totally relate to this. Been working on exactly what your showing Fergus and it does do what it says on the tin. Also moved slightly back from the ball and the strike is day and night. In most cases is ain’t the club. Really enjoyed this video.
Great video. I’ve been “sold” into new clubs by one of the big chains (draw bias, light shaft) based on the numbers and it was a disaster on the course. Next fitting will be done by my pro who knows my swing. Plus I get to give to local business.
Great video on a great topic, Mark! When I’ve gone to a custom fit, I almost always feel kinda cheated. It’s like I know more about ball data and delivery than the “fitter”. So frustrating! You also touched an important question; Why isn’t the manufacturer’s demand a more skilled reseller eco-system?
Excellent video, wonderful presentation. Recently bought a new driver and 3 wood after a fitting. The fitter went through a number of standard shafts that would keep the price down on a premium clubmaker who has reduced prices over the past 6 months. Alas, after trialing a number of standard shafts, we went into the premium $200 upgrade shafts and settled on one that produced better carry, tighter dispersion and lower spin. Path, attack angle, swing changes were never discussed unless I brought it up. While I'm very happy with the clubs, your video gives me pause and I plan on sharing this with my golf buddies. Thanks for your labors Mark!
Great video Mark. I’m fortunate to have a great guy who fits me & 2 weeks ago we tried all sorts of new drivers at the end of which his view was simple - if I was playing golf for a living then buying a new Stealth for the extra 5 yards would be worth it, but as I’m not it’s simply not justifiable. It also highlighted to me the great job he did when fitting me 3 years ago for the M5 I use & last weekend I had 1 of the best driving rounds I’ve ever had. Conversely I had an hour with a large UK golf retailer a year ago & fair to say it was rubbish - ridiculous golf balls, inaccurate kit, 1 shaft available per club, minimal staff interest - I only went there to kill an hour as I was in the area but might have bought had it been properly done with a beneficial outcome - 2 weeks later I did buy a 3 wood elsewhere because it was done well & there was a clear benefit, it’s a great wood & I can’t see me changing it for years!
When I first started getting better at golf about 6 years ago, I treated myself to a custom set from a major golf brand. Never again. After years of learning about the game I realised that my fitted set of irons was sold to me were measured by 2 variables. Shaft weight and lie. In my eyes at the time I was happy, now I know I was sold clubs by someone who, basically, couldn’t be arsed doing their job properly after quick commission
My dad has an issue with having cheap equipment when it comes to anything. He feels the most expensive whatever will make him better. My step mom bought him a cheap match set from Walmart. He insisted they were garbage. I showed him over and over again that it's not the equipment it's the operator. Now he doesn't complain so much. He still does once in a while and when I show him his cheap Walmart driver can still put it out there 270-280 he gets all giddy. Yeah I can't hit it as far or as accurately as my Titleist but it doesn't mean it's total garbage either.
@@industrialpalletworx3548 yeh I agree (to an extent). And that extent is in total agreement with your titleist comparison. My ping gear is fit to me, but if I hit my mates gear which is much cheaper, Im still able to hit the same yardages. The player is the key to the golf being played (to the higher extent)
I have fitted clubs since the early days of Henry Griffitts. On many occasions I have turned a fitting into a lesson if the person cannot deliver the club properly, or as you did, prove their current driver is ok for them with better swings.
Great Video Mark, As a senior high handicap slow club-head speed golfer I decided to take lessons and buy new clubs through American Golf with a fitting for irons and a driver. They fitted me with a Callaway Epic flash low spin driver!!! (to get the spin speed down of course I did not have the muscle to make it work) I am 5'6" and they fitted my TaylorMade Sim 2 irons with a 1 degree upright (to compensate for my over the top swing). They didi not take to account my lessons needless to say after 9 months I sold the lot and am now happy with my setup which I bought with myself with my new understanding and have reduced my handicap from 35 to 24 so I'm now very happy but what a con which cost me a lot of money.
Great video full of honesty and integrity as a golf pro. Store fitters too quick to sell people a dream without helping them understand their needs and limitations at their level. This is why I shop with pxg as they work with my capabilities and help me understand my swing and delivery better and fit the club to me
This is pure wisdom. Thank you Mark for trying to teach people its not all about the gear. The only way you get better is training. Not a new shiney shaft or club.
I'll be 64 next month. Five, maybe six, years ago I decided to "GOLF", and now I have that disease. You were the first instructor I knew was good and I watched. 2022 and I have a rotation of four guys I trust. Funny, you are all Brits. It must be the authoritive golfing accent. Anyway, thanks for a path and the help. Signed, A Pennsylvania Hillbilly P.S., In Britain I'd be Welsh, right?
Loving that brah . A totally non sale lead bias approach . Love to see you do a 'through the bag fit' out to someone , with no sales pitch , no manufacturer fave , just good honest fitting . Then give them a lesson or 2 and repeat. Keep up the content brah
I’ve been fitted by a well known golf chain and then a year later by a PGA pro who is also a coach. The difference in the process and the set of clubs I ended up with were worlds apart. I spent a lot more with my second fitting, but we had two sessions on different days and the same shaft came out with the tighter dispersion both sessions. Always get fitted from a proper pro!
Brilliant portrayal of what happens in the "fitting" I just did. I didn't buy the new driver, and that was mainly due to my feeling that they were going the way they wanted instead of focusing on me. Now, if only you weren't 4,000+ mes away from me across the ocean.
What a brilliant video. I have been for numerous fittings and always had driffent results. I think that lessons are the way to go. Fittings are not an answer but more fine tuning. It is crazy how (including me) get drawn in.
Couldn't agree more. Great episode and from my own experience in the last 3 months, is EXACTLY the same. Was fit for clubs through a decent process, but then proceeded to have some lessons with the same fitter and found plenty of issues with my swing/grip/stance much the same you did for Fergus. Im now striking better, but really this process i think was backwards. Get better a striking and then get fit, or even better at the same time. Maybe have a plan of 3-5 lessons/club fit sessions which bring the golfer up to speed in a few areas, this gives a huge amount of data for the fitter, and the golfer gets the best result.
I know I do the brown nosing a bit too often........ but from someone who is always trying to learn more about this game I find you so insightful. Great Video and really interesting !!!
Good video! Sort of reinforces the mostly good fitting experience I had for my irons a few weeks ago. Lots of data which they emailed me afterwards and we alternated between my clubs and the two I was hitting the best. Only different part was that he didn’t say anything about my swing until an hour in, after a bit of instruction I hit the ball further and higher. I asked why he didn’t just say that 30 minutes earlier, I might have done better with some other clubs. His response was that lots of people don’t like being corrected so he tends to stay quiet until he’s sure how they’ll respond . At first I found that so bizarre, but it made sense as to why some fitters may just sell you a club if you come in and say you want to buy clubs (which I did in this instance)
Very good Mark. Last time I went for a fitting I was also sold a new stiffer and heavier staff. I still have the driver and shafts combo and it is still without the dots that you need for picking up the data.......... Unfortunately it seems that most fitters will sell you what you want rather than helping you fix your swing.
I think this video is great. I believe in custom fitting but where I go goes through similar process to you. Even went back to my old clubs for pattern whilst going in threes of different irons. I actually gained 2500 spin on 6 iron with launch and spin after going from 3000 spin with launch partially to go with dynamic loft, lie and slightly different shaft
Mark this may be the best video I’ve seen you make in the almost 10 years I’ve followed you. Thank you SO much! This needed to be said - as someone who has fallen for this in the past I can’t tell you how often I felt I’ve lit money on fire due to a fit with improper or limited data
Agreed!!!
Buyer beware, I suppose golf no different than many other selling environments. Lots of us want the shiny new clubs, want length etc. we would all benefit from a few lessons and proper practice to get some sort of condition before we go down new clubs route. I for one will go to the pro I am having lessons with for any sort of driver fitting but only when I can actually hit it with some consistency and as Mark says knowing the data about the strike is a key point in any fitting.
If the pro’s are working with a coach why do we as amateurs and part time players in comparison, think we can have the odd lesson and then buy clubs that will fix any swing issue we might have?
It is not a failure to know you need lessons to improve.
I know I have a bad out to in swing and casting the club from the top especially when tired, actually trying to stop it feels so strange and unnatural which is the biggest blocker to Me improving not the clubs.
Best thing about golf is there is always something you can do better, and when having a bad day on the course there is one area typically that works and keeps bringing you back to the game
To your point, when I went for my driver fitting it took 1 1/2 hours and ended up as much a golf lesson as it was a fitting; after watching this video I feel that I got very lucky.
Where did you go?
@@Cool_football_edits Local shop here called Par West Golf.
Went for one at golftec, was not striking to my capabilities at all, I say from nerves from first time in that setting. After a few demo clubs, was asked if I'd rather just take a lesson. Glad he did, it would have been a long hour and half otherwise, felt way more relaxed after aswell
This happened to me at a Club Champion
Yeah I believe if you find the right "teacher" not a "fitter" they will be more willing to go the lesson route...I firmly believe it's better to spend that $50/-$1,500 on lessons.
100% agree, I have had some shocking “custom” fits, where the fitter doesn’t even have my level of knowledge of the data and I do not class myself as an expert whatsoever! Really well highlighted.
I’m one of many who picked up golf at the start of the lockdowns. Took advice from others and went and got a “club fitting” obviously bought all new shiny bats.
2 years down the line and having watched 1000 videos (mostly yours) I’ve educated myself sufficiently to know that What I actually did was pay 2 men £50 to pull my pants down!! 🤣
I'm a relatively new club fitter and all the points you made are spot on. The vast majority of the reason is simply the commission structure. Fitters are encouraged to sell as much as possible as fast as possible, so many will resort to manipulative tactics to push sales.
Fitters are also discouraged from commenting on someone's swing, as it can lose sales if people know that a simple swing fix will solve their issue rather than a new club.
However, I break this rule all the time, and I think any fitter with integrity should be honest and tell someone if they're swinging 8 degrees down with a driver and spinning it at 5000 rpm, the solution isn't the lowest spinning driver and shaft on the market. The solution is a lesson or two to get the proper club delivery.
My advice to anyone who's looking to buy new clubs:
1. Find a fitter who is willing to explain why YOUR SWING is producing the results you are getting. This can be done through club data, looking at angle of attack, strike location, club path, loft/lie etc. If you find your guy, you can come back to them every time and know you're getting a worthwhile fitting.
Or 2. Pay the money to get fit by a head pro. Preferably get a lesson or two with them before the fitting, so they're familiar with your swing beforehand and have already given you some tips to solve any larger issues in your swing.
Thanks for that Evan
Well said, i was fortunate 4 years ago when I got back into golf when i had a fitting for a driver, he refused to sell me one until i had lessons on hitting a driver, he basically explained to me where i was going wrong, stance, ball position etc, he said when i prove to him i can do these things and look like i know what i am doing he will let me try some drivers, then maybe fit me, how integral was that. I am still in touch with him and used him for my rescue, 3 wood, wedges.
Getting lessons just before a fitting is a horrible idea for any half decent player. Then you end up getting fit for a club using a swing that isn't natural to you, because swing changes can take weeks/months sometimes to get used to, which is all ultimately worse and more damaging in the long run. Been playing golf for 20 years so I am speaking from experience. The whole point in club fitting is to fit the club to *my swing* - not fit my swing to the club....that just defeats the whole purpose.
I needed to change my irons as I lack distance with them, however, I decided that lessons was a better investment. I’ve spent £200 on about 10 lessons and this winter I’ve won 5 comp’s and lost 5 shots of my playing handicap. I hardly lose a ball and am a more consistent player than I ever have been. Yes I’ve retired now and can practice and play more but I don’t believe you can radically improve your game with new clubs. I’m still thinking of new irons but would get fitted by the pro who teaches me. That’s the best route as shown here by Mark.
Similar story for me, started playing again last year after 20+ years and I am now 62, booked ten lessons with the pro plus a 6 hole on course look at my game. During this period I wanted a new 3 wood as my old persimmon wood starting to show damage through use. Tested a few and his reply he could not sell me a new club presently as my swing was too inconsistent, I was able to hit most of them as bad or as well as each other. I did buy a 2nd hand set of Wilson’s from him that I was looking at getting new, all he needed was to tweak the lie on them to suit me.
There are too many places where a fitting is about 30-45 minutes, indoors with the trackman or GC, I want to see the flight of the ball in real life plus the data the gizmo produces.
@@cartermatthews5303 also we want to play our best, new clubs etc are nice but the vast majority of us know we don’t possess the talent to be scratch golfers and play in top competitions ( even amateur comps). This does not matter though as we love the game and the challenge each round gives us. Break 100, then aim for 90 then 80 ( which more than 90% never achieve).
Getting par on the bogey hole we all have on a course, is a big enough win for most of us.
$20 a lesson? Socialized golf? Sign me up!
@@Theiliteritesbian many pro’s in the uk offer very good rates for block bookings of lessons. Often close to half the price of an individual lesson. My next set as a block of 5 will only be £110
@@guyr7351 Cheap, Where are you based in UK ?
Great video Mark. I did a fitting with Ping’s fitter in Glasgow last year and it was hands down a much better fit than any of the local AG stores provide. I came out with 425 LST and fitter as asking me to play certain types of shot and showing strike location. No hard sell. I then went on to buy said driver and it’s probably the best club I’ve ever purchased. Fitter spent way over an hour with me and was more like a lesson and a confidence boost than a sell. Well done Ping.
Fair play for exploring this topic. My club recently had a manufacturer come to do fittings. They didn’t get me to hit my current irons. 30min with new clubs in 7i only and then at end said do I want to buy them at £1500!
No doubt in my mind, a lesson is more valuable than a club fit. I've been fit once, played the irons for 12 months. I went back to my Mizuno blades, I'm playing better golf & I'm enjoying it more.
This is where Mark’s logic falls down though. He hates the idea of driver shafts being the engine of a club. This is fair - he’s done plenty of blind tests to show you end up with very similar results. However, he says he prefers a very light shaft because he can swing faster. So he does acknowledge that feels matter. Over a season he may be much more consistent with a 45g stiff than a 75g X. This proves to a point, that fittings do matter. He also has a very aggressive combo set where he uses hybrids after a “6 iron” (his is actually closer to a traditional 4. Again proving fitting is super important for the particular club. You, for instance, probably should not be playing a mizuno blade 4 iron. Almost nobody other than the top few in the world should be. There is just flat out better ways to fit that spot in the bag. I’m nearly a +2 cap and would never play a blade 4 iron because even though I hit it out the middle 9/10 times, the spin, launch, and ball speed are not what they could be from a different option in that loft. All up, fitting poor golfers for a new driver will not get the gains purported by many big box fitters. The big gains come from getting the loft of the head, length of shaft, and the lie of the club right. Fitting has a place but high end shaft fitting is most important for golfers that are at an extreme level of consistency. Even at my level I find shaft for a driver doesn’t make a huge difference so long as it’s stiff enough. Shaft deflection at speed is a big deal and results in inconsistency. Past that it’s about putting a good swing on it.
@@grimwalrus9410 its all about the shaft weight. i switched to lighter shafts 96g (S) on my irons and it has changed my life. 8 handicap. have driver fitting sunday. cant wait.
I totally agree - my experience of fitting over the last couple of years has been very consistent in that I know more about the factors that impact the performance than the fitter and that the fitters are not interested in detailed club head measurements because that might point to a skill deficit rather than a new gear sales opportunity. I also find it comical that most fits are done in-doors and fitters either use the older GC2 units without the HMT or are using Trackman - GC2 without HMT has no ability to provide club head data and using Trackman indoors negates the biggest benefit that the unit has over GC4, namely being able to see the entire flight of the ball and not having to estimate what's going on with the ball.
As a result, I only go into golf shops to test out the look, sound, and feel of a given combo of club head and shaft - and I fit myself based on the knowledge I've gained over the last decade.
not only that but theyre going to want to sell whatever generates the most proft/commission.
also
- irons used are generally only 7s
- you dont try them from different lies
- no bunkers
- you dont get to try different grips and shafts
- alot of shop workers have out of date ideas/rules
i know you already said it, however:
- fitters know fuck all
its pretty embarrassing for them when i think i know fuck all, but then they say something stupid like "for putting your right eye must be directly over the ball" or some physics fact which i know to be incorrect (or at the least dodgy).
The word “fitter” is a loose term . If it’s free I’m not saying you can’t get a good fit but if there is no skin in the game from the customer it’s easy to walk away. There is a sales process but the end goal shouldn’t be only to sell clubs.
I had a driver fitting at a Mizuno fitting day. Tried 4 shafts with the same head, chosen based on my own driver data set (10-15 drives after warm up), found a shaft that delivered 90% of the 25 drives i hit within 20 yards total dispersion (distance and width), swapped out to the other shafts i tried and they were the same as the first time i hit them, back to the ideal shaft and boom , straight back to the same area as the previous set. All of the data showed the strike and path was OK, it was my old driver (15 years old) or the shafts that were just not suitable. I was very happy with the process and results as I don’t think i could have achieved what i ended up doing with my current equipment. I do think there is a difference between going to a club pro or fitting day rather than a store like American Golf. Personally would never go back to them, they are a big retailer, they have no interest in your once you have left the store
Great video Mark.... 100% agree. I was going to get a new driver this year but instead I spent that money on lessons. Was the best decision I have ever made for my golf game.
Good points, Mark. With all that said, how does the average golfer find a qualified fitter? One that will help us and not just sell clubs. Now that's an eye-opening video!
Stay away from a franchise golf store. Look at reviews for locally owned shops. Ideally you want a shop with good reviews where either the owner, or a co-owner performs the fitting.
You can tell, if they care about a great fit or just a sale. A lot of the better places will charge for a fitting, but give you credit toward a purchase. If they are good enough to require you to book a fitting and charge money, there is a reason they can.
You don't need one. Unless you're almost breaking par every round it most likely will make zero difference in your game.
Work with someone that can teach and fit clubs
I love it Mark , this is my BIGGEST complaint about trying to by new equipment. I cant trust ANYONE in retail , even the custom fitters. I just do my homework , get to know my swing with each club and then try the brands I have access to and then make my decision. Then again I am a fanatic when it comes to golf so I spends lots of time researching , I know most people wont or cant.
This was a very interesting video but if you want a new club to solve problems your already in trouble. If you go for a club fitting you've gone with the intention of buying so thats what they will do, fit you for and sell you a club. Mark you've showed the value of lessons over thinking clubs will solve all. 👌
Nailed it….And this is why I’ve never been fit. I know it’s important and needs to be done, but the fear of being sold and not fit keeps me in my off the rack clubs
I was fit for new irons based on the impact being measured on my current ones consistently showing as low toe. Newer more forgiving irons straightened me out. That said, I took that impact data and also made changes to my swing to get closer to centre strikes. I would kill for my own GC Quad! As Faldo said to Rick Shiels the launch monitors are the biggest advances in Golf technology.
Great video. I was told to spend $400 for a club based on 3 yards more distance. I really did not care about 3 yards so I did not buy. Thank you for your honesty and I think you are right. For the cost we deserve not to be herded like cattle. This is why so many people watch your videos.
Thankfully, my coach is also my fitter so a fitting session is always a blend of a lesson to improve strike and a fit. When I tested my TSi4 driver, I went through 5 shafts to find the one that felt the best and then we worked on delivery and face control to manage strike. Dropped 1000rpm, improved accuracy and added distance. It's an absolute weapon on course!
I went for a full bag fitting, I was only looking to upgrade my irons but look to get my woods and hybrids set correctly, the experience I had was very good, they knew from the start that I wasn’t looking to buy there and then and gave me all the info I needed to help my game
Absolutely love this!!!!!! I have had a similar (good) experience with fitters in my area. Went in to try new product but ended up getting some setup advice and the outcome was that what I had in the bag was fine and nothing new was going to make a significant gain. Combining fitting and coaching is a great way for golfers to get the best advice. The place I go to charges for fitting, slightly cheaper rate than a lesson, however you dont feel pressured to buy product so you trust the advice as opposed to going to a sales focussed store. A 'free' fitting takes margin away from the retailer - and the margins are not great on equipment. A booked out lesson and fitting diary with happy returning clients is a really good business model.
Spend 25-30 on a fitting session where the advice is your current club is fine is a way better than a 'free' fitting where you walk out with a new £450 club that is marginally bettrer (if at all)
And I bet by giving the correct advice if you decide to purchase they will be the 1st place you would visit, good honest customer service is everything.
Where did you go?
@@richardcarling4480 ruclips.net/video/P6mZs1KkQi4/видео.html
Fittings all come down to the professionalism of the fitter. My first fitting screwed me up more than you can imagine. I did the math and watched Ian Fraser on txg. It completely changed my game. Gains and control were unimaginable.
Are you doing an upper body / lower body split? I like to work chest / tris on day one, bis and fores for day 2, then legs followed up with a shoulders / back routine. I've gotten good gains from this, without over training. Albeit I need to up my protein intake, maybe some BCAAs. The key for me in making gains is plenty of rest, nutrition, intensity and consistency using progressive over load, go to failure and negatives towards the end of the final sets. My ball distance has gone up considerably, but need to spend more time on the short game after all the goal is to get the ball into the hole, and fifty yards in is where scores either go up or down considerably. Those days I'm not blasting legs I'll do bleacher sprints and planks. The core has tightened up alot and there's so much more power as I come through the ball. My body feels like a coil unwinding and the arms just drop into place. Thanks
I have had 2 fittings in the last 2 years, 3 wood and irons and they were both good in their own way. I’m an easy fit as med swing speed but good smash and face to path. I think the biggest issue with irons is how manufactures and reviewers talk about blending, but how can we get that done when most fitters only have a 6 or 7 iron for fitting purposes?
after all this custom fitting stuff over the years, i've come to the conclusion that its better to pick clubs that you like playing and just go out and play golf. pretty simple. So many variables in real golfing situations that a custom fitting couldn't possible capture. Play clubs you feel good about. That's the top and the bottom of it
Hit the nail on the head. There’s too much information out there online in a sense. Stop worrying so much about getting “fit.” A lot of golfers have it in their mind that custom fitting or lack thereof, is the reason they suck at golf. It’s all b.s.
I dunno I reckon it matters a bit if you’re 5’4 or 6’4. Different lie angles and shaft lengths
@@quinnready2936 get a few inches longer in the shaft if you're really tall. You can adjust your game to lie angles etc. For most amateurs, that stuff is marginal for their overall scoring anyway
@@tankeater “LMFAAAAAAOOOOO” What are you, 12?
@@tankeater im just saying that there are so many variables in golf. Hitting off mats on gc quad tells you nothing about real golfing conditions. Most amateurs cant even hit consistent enough off mats for the data to be meaningful. Getting a set of clubs and practising will do far more for your game than getting a fitting. Better players will get more out of it. Pros know what they want and fittings obviously benefot them much more than amatuers
Mark, finally someone who is making sense is you. Its all about selling the product instead of being honest with the consumer. As a fitter you should be true not just lets sell you this new club because it will get you what your looking for which most have no idea on all the numbers and what they really mean. Thanks for giving all of us a heads up on what we should be looking for in a custom fitting. Bravo Mark!
This is a thinking man's approach, and one of the most valuable golf videos I've seen. The way Mark speaks about the data (and makes the point that more data is always better than less) is very smart. I am pretty new to the game and was fortunate that my fitter was all about the numbers and was quite patient with me in examining them. A good fitter is also an educator. Thanks for putting this together.
Titleist fitting was the best thing for my golf. Handicap went from 7 to 3. T200 irons.... Exquisite
cool😎
Was that at a Titleist specific centre or a multi club fitting centre. Just seen on James Robinson channel the Mizuno fitting at their centre is £500 😮😮
@@guyr7351 multi. The guys from Titleist came out
Bringing us over to the seller’s POV is revealing in such great ways. Thanks Mark!!! We do deserve better…which makes me glad you’re here proving it to us. Much love bruh!!!
You’re one of the reasons I don’t impulse buy drivers every year! It’s already doing it’s job…I just needed to do mine better judging from the potential I put in…. This is like a magician showing how tricks are done and I appreciate it!
Great Video! I’ve always thought there should be different levels of fitting based upon a player’s skill or handicap.
1. Beginners - static fitting is fine since beginners hit it all over the club face. Just need to make sure the clubs are not too long or short and shaft flex and weight appropriate.
2. Bogey golfers - lie adjustments, shaft flex, custom lengths, some trackman work mostly to optimize adjustable clubs. All clubs in the bag can be fit in 1-2 hours.
3. Elite golfers, single digit handicaps, golf-a-holics, or anyone willing to spend several hundred dollars on a fitting - consistent ball striker, extensive trackman work - Club fitting broken down into multiple sessions so there’s enough time to get adequate trackman data and analyze it. Irons and hybrids one session, driver and fairway woods another session, wedges a different session and putter a separate session. For the golfer wanting to dial in their numbers because they can consistently repeat their distances and want to save every stroke possible in their game.
I agree with you 100% here. I actually went to PGATSS and got fit in the studio for a driver. It was closer to the static fitting you mentioned for step 1. I was coming from a super flimsy calaway strata box set driver and upgraded to a Ping g425 max with a stiff shaft. Afterwards I started to approach being a bogey golfer. I went back to the same guy to upgrade my irons from the calaway strata set. After about an hour and a half, the fitter gave me the exact same lesson Mark did in this video. My dispersion was all over the place because my wrist position at impact was too inconsistent. He said that originally he would’ve fit me into a 2 degree upright, but after the swing change, I’d stay at standard. So he told me to practice this and come back in a few months. I have to say that my ball striking became more consistent afterwards. I look forward to going back to him when I’m ready to upgrade.
Spot on, couldn't agree more.
There's very little that a custom fit will fix. There's a ton that can be fixed with some coaching and time on the range. Thank you Mark, this is why we love you! You're a consumer watchdog and I've been recommending you channel for years
On two recent occasions I have been to American Golf stores to try out new equipment. Once to check out new irons prior to their release date and on another occasion to test the numerous new drivers which are now available. Both times I went through their 'fitting process'. I consider myself to have a good understanding of the variables which make certain golf clubs work to a golfers full potential and I understand that for many so called fitters, achieving sales is their business. Whilst AGs fitting process is far from the best, to their credit I was told on both occasions that they could not improve on my current clubs.
Great video. Lazy fitters.. I was custom fitted for irons last year and they only had 7irons to try and compare… I managed to try the u wedge of the se too.. but no gap testing with the whole set.. the clock is always ticking during these sessions.. us customers are just seen as cash on a conveyor belt in my experience
Absolutely spot on. I have had several swing analysis and club fittings. I tend to agree with your analysis but in the end it is up to the customer to press the fitter to meet your requirement. Just a similar process to other large purchases. Stay in the game and get what you need.
This is by far the best content you have ever posted. Should wise us up on lousy and greedy fitters. I also liked the"Why you can not strike your driver" and "Stop hitting bad iron shots" videos. This is the type of information people need.
Totally. Only had one custom fit that was close to being good and even then I had to guide to pro towards the shafts that fitted me
The moment you had Fergus hit toward the gap in right( Baseball ) then did that ninja checklist to pose him was art! Your video gave every golfer a checklist for their swing so good that it's a gift. Thanks for a HOF VIDEO Mark!
This was one of the best videos I have seen yet regarding "Buyer Beware" in a retail club a rama seller's fitting bay. When I discovered the massive role that the wrist plays in a golf swing (control over club face at impact) my game changed significantly for the better! 20 to 12 hcp. Fitting can be a con but also "lessons" as well. Until I experimented with wrist hinge and experimenting between bowed and cupped on my own was I able to absolutely remove my slice. When a slice does creep back in a round, almost inevitably I got lazy with my wrist cupping angle and I correct it on the next swing / drive. So what criteria does a "fitter" need to pass in order to be considered a "professional" experienced fitter? I suspect none other than good sales skills and a BASIC understanding of the golf lingo. Your chances of a better fitting is by a real professional on staff at a top shelf country club with PGA / USGA / EGA credentials than the big store retailers.
It's amazing how easy it is to refute the justification for a fitting. THANK YOU for posting this!
Best golf video I’ve seen for ages. As a high hcp, this really hits home (I have good club speed, high spin, no distance, wide dispersion) and although I’m not looking for a new driver, it hammers home that I need to get on the range and into lessons to get the best out of the club I have, which can then last me 5+ years more.
In 2004 I took 4 lessons and went from 17-5 hcp! Also watch Mr Short Game. Lessons, practice, practice, practice.
As soon as I saw the out to in path I knew a mini lesson was coming. The big man will start killing it if he keeps working on the new path.
Wow. Absolutely love this. I've always been a little wary of fitting, mostly because I know I'm poor about feeling whats going on with my body during a swing, and the swing is the most important part. By the same token, I'm happy trying to get functional shots out of my filthy old swing.
As always, a load of information to digest. You can see your intent to impart the knowledge for people just to have a fighting chance. Its appreciated.👍
I am a 69 year old high handicapper started playing 3 years ago and have always thought it's me not my clubs (20 year old second hand irons callaway big bertha x12). My golf pro proved it by smashing shots with them whilst I was struggling to get a clean contact. Slowly improving with practice and coaching, much better investment than new clubs !!
DANG this is a good video! My favorite part? The few minute set-up lesson and the visualization of swinging to right field. You provided your "secret shopper a lifetime lesson without getting in his wallet. Great work Mark & thank you for this excellent video!
Finally someone with the balls to call out these sharks, well done Mark
Pretty much everyone in the golf influencer world has stated this, the golf fitters also don't sponsor him. Marks just shown us an example
@@user-mv1nz3hs8p I've been on the receiving end of a bad fitter and it has cost me a pile of money to get clubs that work, driver spinning at 1000 backspin?
Great video Mark. I feel this way every time Im club shopping. I got fitted ones before for $250 and i hated every part of it. Guy was just selling me clubs. And some golf lessons i took were the same way. Like they don’t even care about personal swing , just want you to come back as much as you can so it brings business . But its all good . Getting better at golf thanks to channels like yours! Cheers from Chicago
Brilliant stuff
I found a 'fitting lesson' at a golf course here. The pro got $100/hour lesson; I got invaluable advice (driver is fine/ don't bother regripping irons) /things to practice (wider stance at address/shoulder tilt) and a contact for the future IF I ever want to fit/buy new gear.
Thanks for the honesty Mark …. Integrity is everything
Do we deserve more? Absolutely! Last fitting I had, no club head data was collected and I didn't even get to see a readout of averages. It was basically just an open test of different clubs I wanted to try with different shafts that I wanted to try, and the conclusion the theater came to was the one that felt best in my hand. The unfortunate part is I can't quantify that with any data.
Cheers Mark! You are golf's greatest fact checker!
This is one of your best videos ever. Get lessons, be an educated consumer, and find a reputable fitter!
In most of my fittings I've felt the fitter is more interested In selling me a golf club than giving me what is best for me this was a very interesting video and 1 I think ever glue fitter should watch
Mark this was one of the best YT videos i ever seen. You are so correct! The golf industry is full off people you are under trained. MFG need to take a more proactive role to ensure their product is being fitted properly. I wish I could have a session with you. Thanks for pointing out the pit falls of poor fitting and what consumers need to be aware of.
Great info, now as a golfer who stuggles with setup/lead wrist it was refreshing to see you adjusting his set up. Would like to see a 360 degree driver set up video.
That's why we love and follow Mark since years
Great video with plenty to think about. A newcomer to golf, I am focusing on getting out and hitting my 2nd hand clubs as much as possible and am lining up some lessons. I don't feel a fitting is going to benefit me until I can develop a consistency and effectiveness with my swing and ball strike.
Great video! Thanks for posting a really in depth vlog on this subject. Your professionalism is much admired and appreciated.
Great video. It’s put me off going for a custom fit for a new driver though whilst I’m working on my swing. Ball speed 168mph but carry of only 250yds shouts out something needs to change in my swing. Thank you Mark!
Hi Mark, I agree with you totally. However, I would say that I started playing golf last May and I have had lessons with my local PGA Pro at my golf course and have built up a good relationship with him. As he knows my game 😂, the advice has been brilliant and he has so many times told me "don't buy this club or that club. Stick with what you have when you get better then we can look at doing more" etc. He is also a fitter, but will not just do a fitting to sell clubs..... I think you need to build a relationship up with your local PGA pro. It has to be the best way to get the right club/driver for you.
I had a driver and wedge fitting at Windmill Golf in Macedonia, OH. My fitting was great, they walked me through all the data they were collecting, and sent it all to me through Trackman. The clubs I was fit for have improved my game. I would definitely recommend getting fit for clubs.
This is so true. Its the same reason that you cant get fitted at most big stores without buying the club(s). And most stores won't give you a printout/email of your fitting/numbers.
I just got fitted down at Precision Golf in Chatswood down here in Aus.
Mark's also my coach i've had a few lessons from before who does fitting.
He also just works on salary so no commission.
Instead of going a new Driver, he recommended me just upgrading my shaft to a stiff shaft and keeping my Sim 1 head (I bought it 2nd hand a few years ago).
So VERY happy with the outcome! Saved ~$700 dollarydoos
Amazing video Mark your passion for golfing education screams out here!...
Great video! I got custom fitted for a driver, fairway wood and hybrid 2 weeks ago by Scott Gourlay Golf Tech in Edinburgh. My fitter, Ross, wouldn’t start the fitting process until my club delivery matched the shot I was trying to hit, which he was keeping an eye on through Trackman and explaining to me what I had to do to deliver the club correctly first and foremost. He also started off the fitting by suggesting I may not even need a new driver, which, given their whole business model is custom fitting clubs is remarkable honesty - he was effectively talking me out of a sale because he wasn’t convinced the performance benefits of a new club would outweigh my current one. I can’t recommend SGGT enough for high quality fitting! There are some great fitters out there and SGGT are one of them. Also got fitted at a local pro shop last night for putter and was told I couldn’t remove the wrapper on the head to trial the model I wanted. Was told, and I quote “the wrapper doesn’t make a difference to the feel of the face”. If that’s the case then why do putter manufacturers spend billions on refining face design 🤷♂️? Had the good and the bad in the past 2 weeks!
One of the best and most informative golf videos I've seen in a long while. Thanks, Mark!
I have had the opposite response too fitting, i have had fitting at complete golfer and The golf lab. Both of these fitters were honest, both said get better quality lessons and said while i was there gave me pointers on what to improve on. At the end of my fitting they both said my draw bias driver was not going to help me improve but we went through the fitting process while i was there and both fitters on data suggested exactly the same driver and shaft, most attention to shafts over head head .
I have had lessons at Lambourne golf course and it’s completely changed my game , i am enjoying my golf again and the other advice he gave is you have now run out of equipment to improve and said don’t change anything in my set up. More lessons on the way.
You are on the money here Mark, a great insight for people out there. I am a very inconsistent golfer due to lack of practice but i know enough on how to fix myself to get by and I can look at numbers and have enough understanding to what is right and wrong. I have found fittings in large retail stores to be average at best, all they want is quick money. If you want it done properly, you need to go to a dedicated fitter or coach and spend at least an hour to go through the process.
Thanks for your brutish honesty. Would love to see a companion piece showing fitting implications based upon using only a 7 iron. We deserve more in this respect too.
Mark speaking the truth again! Many people will skip this video as it’s not as gimmicky as other RUclips golf videos but so much can be learnt from watching mark!
Good video Mark,, thanks , be careful at AM Golf Exeter..famous for stitching you up.....
I happened across a Bridgestone ball fitting recently and I thought it was interesting that they turned off the screen. You just hit balls with 7 iron and driver, at the end they gave your their ball recommendation. I would be curious if you did a driver fitting where the client couldn't see the ball flight on the simulator, how it would turn out. Keep up the good work, Mark.
With you on this one Mark..Had a fitting for a driver at Drummond Golf. Managed to buy the identical driver discounted on gumtree. Took it out for a game. In the real world i could not hit an elephants arse from 5 meters with my purchase. So i sold the club. Lucky i did not pay full retail. Bullet dodged.My handicap is 7.Club fitting is a specialist service and most staff at retailers don't have the skills or time to fit you correctly.
Great vid..thanks.
This is so true. Last year on a fitting I brought up this very topic up with the fitter when he was trying to sell me a driver and 3 wood. I did not say anything during the 1sthr of fitting, just smiled and waved so to speak. I then asked if could qualify with him what he was showing me with data and equipment (heads and shafts) he was showing me. This is where his business model fell over and came quite obvious that the numbers and the equipment given were to manipulate towards a specific club. Asked if he would continue to help me with finding what was the best club for my delivery to ball (being a 1 handicap with swing speed of up to 105mph, I am only 51 by the way) but was hesitant and so we parted our ways.
Had 2 fittings in my time ! One was 2 degs flat the other was 2 degs upright lol long time ago though!
Mark, thanks for another great video, your best one so far. Numbers in the fitting studio do not always mirror the numbers on the golf course.
I recommend a club fitter that also uses an outdoor hitting bay so you can see the actual results along with the computer generated numbers.
Went in for a new set of irons at Portsmouth golf centre, took three sessions and I didn’t buy what I thought would suit me. Superb service and attention to details.
Probably the most interesting and detailed review that I have seen for a very very long time ..thank you
Mark, can totally relate to this. Been working on exactly what your showing Fergus and it does do what it says on the tin. Also moved slightly back from the ball and the strike is day and night. In most cases is ain’t the club. Really enjoyed this video.
Great video. I’ve been “sold” into new clubs by one of the big chains (draw bias, light shaft) based on the numbers and it was a disaster on the course. Next fitting will be done by my pro who knows my swing. Plus I get to give to local business.
Great video on a great topic, Mark! When I’ve gone to a custom fit, I almost always feel kinda cheated. It’s like I know more about ball data and delivery than the “fitter”. So frustrating! You also touched an important question; Why isn’t the manufacturer’s demand a more skilled reseller eco-system?
Excellent video, wonderful presentation. Recently bought a new driver and 3 wood after a fitting. The fitter went through a number of standard shafts that would keep the price down on a premium clubmaker who has reduced prices over the past 6 months. Alas, after trialing a number of standard shafts, we went into the premium $200 upgrade shafts and settled on one that produced better carry, tighter dispersion and lower spin. Path, attack angle, swing changes were never discussed unless I brought it up. While I'm very happy with the clubs, your video gives me pause and I plan on sharing this with my golf buddies. Thanks for your labors Mark!
Great video Mark. I’m fortunate to have a great guy who fits me & 2 weeks ago we tried all sorts of new drivers at the end of which his view was simple - if I was playing golf for a living then buying a new Stealth for the extra 5 yards would be worth it, but as I’m not it’s simply not justifiable. It also highlighted to me the great job he did when fitting me 3 years ago for the M5 I use & last weekend I had 1 of the best driving rounds I’ve ever had. Conversely I had an hour with a large UK golf retailer a year ago & fair to say it was rubbish - ridiculous golf balls, inaccurate kit, 1 shaft available per club, minimal staff interest - I only went there to kill an hour as I was in the area but might have bought had it been properly done with a beneficial outcome - 2 weeks later I did buy a 3 wood elsewhere because it was done well & there was a clear benefit, it’s a great wood & I can’t see me changing it for years!
When I first started getting better at golf about 6 years ago, I treated myself to a custom set from a major golf brand. Never again. After years of learning about the game I realised that my fitted set of irons was sold to me were measured by 2 variables. Shaft weight and lie. In my eyes at the time I was happy, now I know I was sold clubs by someone who, basically, couldn’t be arsed doing their job properly after quick commission
My dad has an issue with having cheap equipment when it comes to anything. He feels the most expensive whatever will make him better. My step mom bought him a cheap match set from Walmart. He insisted they were garbage. I showed him over and over again that it's not the equipment it's the operator. Now he doesn't complain so much. He still does once in a while and when I show him his cheap Walmart driver can still put it out there 270-280 he gets all giddy. Yeah I can't hit it as far or as accurately as my Titleist but it doesn't mean it's total garbage either.
@@industrialpalletworx3548 yeh I agree (to an extent). And that extent is in total agreement with your titleist comparison. My ping gear is fit to me, but if I hit my mates gear which is much cheaper, Im still able to hit the same yardages. The player is the key to the golf being played (to the higher extent)
@@pjflynn4321 absolutely 💯 couldn't agree more. It's all about the operator not the tools
I love watching @crossfied work his magic !!! just gold, need more coaches around the world like him.....
Totally agree with this video. if you don't know how to swing a golf club, new shafts or clubs will fix absolutely nothing. good video!
I have fitted clubs since the early days of Henry Griffitts. On many occasions I have turned a fitting into a lesson if the person cannot deliver the club properly, or as you did, prove their current driver is ok for them with better swings.
100% agree, said it myself for years. A list of good fitters would be great, no idea how we get that.
Great Video Mark, As a senior high handicap slow club-head speed golfer I decided to take lessons and buy new clubs through American Golf with a fitting for irons and a driver. They fitted me with a Callaway Epic flash low spin driver!!! (to get the spin speed down of course I did not have the muscle to make it work) I am 5'6" and they fitted my TaylorMade Sim 2 irons with a 1 degree upright (to compensate for my over the top swing). They didi not take to account my lessons needless to say after 9 months I sold the lot and am now happy with my setup which I bought with myself with my new understanding and have reduced my handicap from 35 to 24 so I'm now very happy but what a con which cost me a lot of money.
Great video full of honesty and integrity as a golf pro. Store fitters too quick to sell people a dream without helping them understand their needs and limitations at their level. This is why I shop with pxg as they work with my capabilities and help me understand my swing and delivery better and fit the club to me
This is pure wisdom. Thank you Mark for trying to teach people its not all about the gear. The only way you get better is training. Not a new shiney shaft or club.
Great info. Been "fitted" a few times by three different fitters in a short time span. All had different "recommendations". Play what suits YOUR eye.
Excellent video. Learned a lot and learned to make sure I close my shoulder and making sure to hit the middle. Lesson and not a fitting. Thanks!
I'll be 64 next month. Five, maybe six, years ago I decided to "GOLF", and now I have that disease. You were the first instructor I knew was good and I watched. 2022 and I have a rotation of four guys I trust. Funny, you are all Brits. It must be the authoritive golfing accent. Anyway, thanks for a path and the help. Signed, A Pennsylvania Hillbilly P.S., In Britain I'd be Welsh, right?
Loving that brah . A totally non sale lead bias approach . Love to see you do a 'through the bag fit' out to someone , with no sales pitch , no manufacturer fave , just good honest fitting . Then give them a lesson or 2 and repeat. Keep up the content brah
I’ve been fitted by a well known golf chain and then a year later by a PGA pro who is also a coach. The difference in the process and the set of clubs I ended up with were worlds apart. I spent a lot more with my second fitting, but we had two sessions on different days and the same shaft came out with the tighter dispersion both sessions. Always get fitted from a proper pro!
Brilliant portrayal of what happens in the "fitting" I just did. I didn't buy the new driver, and that was mainly due to my feeling that they were going the way they wanted instead of focusing on me. Now, if only you weren't 4,000+ mes away from me across the ocean.
What a brilliant video. I have been for numerous fittings and always had driffent results. I think that lessons are the way to go. Fittings are not an answer but more fine tuning. It is crazy how (including me) get drawn in.
Couldn't agree more. Great episode and from my own experience in the last 3 months, is EXACTLY the same. Was fit for clubs through a decent process, but then proceeded to have some lessons with the same fitter and found plenty of issues with my swing/grip/stance much the same you did for Fergus. Im now striking better, but really this process i think was backwards. Get better a striking and then get fit, or even better at the same time. Maybe have a plan of 3-5 lessons/club fit sessions which bring the golfer up to speed in a few areas, this gives a huge amount of data for the fitter, and the golfer gets the best result.
I know I do the brown nosing a bit too often........ but from someone who is always trying to learn more about this game I find you so insightful. Great Video and really interesting !!!
Good video! Sort of reinforces the mostly good fitting experience I had for my irons a few weeks ago. Lots of data which they emailed me afterwards and we alternated between my clubs and the two I was hitting the best. Only different part was that he didn’t say anything about my swing until an hour in, after a bit of instruction I hit the ball further and higher. I asked why he didn’t just say that 30 minutes earlier, I might have done better with some other clubs. His response was that lots of people don’t like being corrected so he tends to stay quiet until he’s sure how they’ll respond . At first I found that so bizarre, but it made sense as to why some fitters may just sell you a club if you come in and say you want to buy clubs (which I did in this instance)
Very good Mark.
Last time I went for a fitting I was also sold a new stiffer and heavier staff. I still have the driver and shafts combo and it is still without the dots that you need for picking up the data..........
Unfortunately it seems that most fitters will sell you what you want rather than helping you fix your swing.
I think this video is great. I believe in custom fitting but where I go goes through similar process to you. Even went back to my old clubs for pattern whilst going in threes of different irons. I actually gained 2500 spin on 6 iron with launch and spin after going from 3000 spin with launch partially to go with dynamic loft, lie and slightly different shaft