LL Cool J is the prototype. He is in every rapper’s DNA. He done a lot of first. He had the first mainstream battles in rap, he was 16 when he started, every album platinum, first rap mainstream love song, and many more. Just like you can say Ice Cube is in every West coast rappers DNA.
@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstubwxyz123 I'm looking forward to the day to see kids like you who went from bashing LL Cool J nonstop to now pretending to have been a fan of his
Not really Cass is a better technical rapper. But in all the other categories not so much that's what he was explaining and he use a very good analogy with curry and basketball
I think y'all forget Pac didn't live past a certain time.... The state of rap wasn't where it was when Cass was doing what he did, and even still Pac flow, cadence, delivery is second to none til this day ... I'm just not one for comparing a legend of Pac caliber to Cassidy in any right when Cass arguably wasn't the most lyrical of his peak compared to a fab, kiss, beans, Royce etc etc etc... idk I respect y'all view tho
@EjStew06 my guy you adding stuff to the debate we can only go off of what we got we can't speak in hypothetical. We don't no what he would've turned into. And no body said Cass was the best in any pack but every person you named is technically a better rapper than pac it's facts bro
The fact they have to bring up a dead 25 year old 28 years later in these convos shows how great Pac was & still is. LL is not wrong about his opinion. The man been out since 84 still "doing it".
Pac has done everything LL has (minus longevity of course) but L literally was THE FIRST to do it. The man is the blueprint. If you were talking a list, mention Pac. If we’re talking about the originator, it’s LL Cool J
@NINJA_INVESTORS in what way? I agree Pac wasn't the most lyrical as far as what typical NYers call lyrical but most his songs had meaning and were impactful. What he lacked in word play n punchline he made up for 10 fold in delivery, message, subject matter, charisma, influence etcc. Pac was A++ 30 years later and he's still arguably #1-3
Been saying this since 2005. Once he went platinum 20 years in it was undeniable. At that time only Beastie Boys had managed to drop classics that long.
@@mauricejosey1827I’m saying in 2005 Beastie Boys released their sixth classic album in a row and LL Cool J went platinum for his eleventh or twelfth time and both were 20+ years deep and no other hip hop artists could say that. That’s hard to do in any genre.
@@jbsrekees876all of their albums are hip hop. Check Your Head and Ill Communication influenced The Roots Phrenology. Method Man but License to Ill in his top ten best albums. Chris Rock put Paul’s Boutique in his top ten. Ill Communication had Q-Tip on it. And their final album featured Nas. After their second LP they started making their own beats and including punk rock, jazz instrumentals, and more eclectic it songs on their albums. Paul’s Boutique was produced by the Dust Brothers who produced Young MC, Tone Loc, and Beck afterwards. They never changed genres. People just say that because a lot of people never liked having them around. LL put them on Def Jam Mount Rushmore for a reason.
Chuck D isn’t a lyricist though. Most of his rhymes are very direct and simple, they’re just abrasive for folks who get uncomfortable listening to them or, just don’t like/give a listen to boom-bap hip hop.
Tupac did not set the criteria for how to be successful in the business of rap as much as LL, but his artistry is unmatched by any rapper. Tupac, Stevie Wonder, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, etc. He’s on that level.
@@mariahwhitneycelinejanetmadona You’re right. That was a true misogynistic blind spot moment. I like artists who write, perform, and have cultural and generational impact, so Lauryn and Nina Simone do it for me.
I think LL is the most important rapper from a business/industry perspective. He is the rap superstar prototype. But I think Rakim is the most important rapper from a cultural standpoint. He changed the way people rhymed from simple ass "ya momma was a fool. You didnt go to school" to a variance of flows and cadences.
What rakim changed was the “voice” of the flow. The tone. There were guys already rhyming with different cadences and flows before him and some came out around the same time as him. But dudes were used to screaming on the mic, his was more of a laid back monotone flow. Rakim is mos def a monster for sure.
@@Ravenprince-q1g if you believe that then why exactly is neither artist you mentioned even in the conversation that Tupac is in? You don't have to like him. Your opinion doesn't determine where he is ranked.
@@nikivory6891 He’s only in the conversation because his stans are delusional. And these are the same people who think Pac is from the west and was really in the streets. Facts are facts though and he wasn’t a star until he went to the label that Snoop who was way bigger than him made. And before that Warren G was outselling him as well.
Depends what you value more. For me it's: Delivery > Content > Metaphors and punchlines >= Intricate rhyme schemes > everything else Some artists can completely ignore certain criteria because they're just that good at everything else, or they're so good at everything that they don't have to be the best at one or two.
In 1985 I was breakdancing listening to LL Cool J 🎤🏆🤙🏾💯🔥🔥 Go watch the movie 🍿🎥"Krush Groove", and after that Beat Street and Breakin and Breakin 2 , Wild style 💪🏾🎵
I am 47, and Yes LL Cool J, Ice T, and Too Short were all the beginning for me. LL was the one though that was more appropriate to be a fan of as a kid but he was still street.
Ll cool j was the first portage of hip hop , his run at def jam build the empire ,he the blueprint for any hip hop artist about longevity, and many different era, he is important to hip hop
I don't know, I feel like there should be a distinction between lyricism and lyrical gymnastics. Chuck D wasn't doing crazy rhyme schemes but he has some of the most potent bars ever. There's a reason Talib Kweli put "Black Steel in The Hour of Chaos" in his top 10 for hardest verses ever.
Exactly. Lyrics and technique are two different things. You got very technical rappers with wordplay and crazy flow but it's filler. Then you got straightforward Deep Lyrics like Chuck D, Scarface etc
Pac and DMX aren't lyricists, they are phrasists. They make a phrase sound dope but they aren't blowing your mind with punchlines, entendres and metaphors.
You literally don't know what the hell you're talking about. And I can tell that you don't listen to the music and you could not know exactly what a metaphor or anything like that is. Because if you knew the music, and if you know what those things actually are he is a Lyricist he puts together syllables you name it double entendres you name it I can literally pull up song after the song where he gets busy lyrically in terms of your rapper rapper shit
LL is HIM. He is the first rapper to go through several eras/decades. There was a small window and you aged out quickly before him. He figured out how to grow through the years with rap. He became bigger than rap. The Don 🐐
MR. HILL an LL hater because nobody was taking about 2pac. It was a conversation about LL. And people like him love to flip the conversation and talk about 2pac or BIG or etc. Has anyone ever stopped and realized most rapper's people bring up was inspired by LL? 2pac or Tupac song Old School, he mentioned LL like 2 or 3 times in the same song out of respect. Joe next time shut him down and tell him to have some respect 🙏. Comparing some rapper's to LL is idiotic sometimes. Learn the Hip Hop history and just respect it. No need to hate on L. We know how great Pac was and still is. We know how great Nas and Big etc etc. But when we talking about L. Let's stop the hate and show some love.
100%. Plenty of people not far behind, but those two had the biggest impact before everything was laid out. After them, the conversation gets a lot longer lol
That fact that this conversation turned into a long Tupac debate is the perfect example of why LL will never actually be talked about being as important as he actually was/is
Marc 2pac argument is dumb and he got destroyed. That's why he is walking back. I hate when people say Jeezy isn't lyrical. We just listening to 2 different things then lol.
Listen to Tupac "Still I Rise" verse from that Outlawz album. He wasn't the best lyricist at all times but Joe is right, it's what you say & how you say it.
Pac/Dmx/50 in their primes had simple rhyme schemes compared to other elite but were incredible songwriters with amazing deliveries. Those are my favorite type of rappers. I’ll throw Jeezy in there as well.
Are they going out of their way to not understand Marc? They keep saying that content outweighs lyricism, but he never said it didn't. He's not making a "one or the other" argument. He's comparing two rappers in one single skill category. His argument makes sense, even if you don't agree.
What they are trying to convey (Ish tried to but did it poorly) is the more intricate your story the harder it is to rhyme/word play/entendres, the less you have to say the easier it is to do those things; so the difficulty of lyricism has to include storytelling with the other parts and should not be in a separate category.
@@andrewwilson8144 that's fine. But Marc never made a statement to contradict that. He literally started the debate saying that Pac is a better overall artist than Cassidy, but he believes that Cassidy is better in the one specific category of lyricism. He never even said that lyricism outweighs content/message. But at the end of the day the two skills aren't mutually exclusive. You can, and many artist are, better at (or at least lean on) one aspect than the other. They act like he said Pac sucked or you aren't a good rapper if you don't complicate your bars. The never once addressed his actual point/opinion
First off PAC was most definitely a lyricist and often slept on his many stories and ability to take real events and turn them into rhymes. Hence Brenda’s got a baby. Which was a true story that he read about in the newspaper
@@tony4534nah fam pac made anthems for the world and about change meaning also the swagg be duplicated a lot with rappers emulating pac and even till this day he’s a culture changer
Wrong. Someone can be your favorite but not the best. That’s personal. Technical is like here’s the great dunker. Thousands away from a Steph comparison.
I would say Rakim is more important to me personally, if we’re talking about the evolution of Hip Hop, but if we’re talking about pushing Hip Hop to the mainstream and giving it more pop appeal, than it might be LL (which is not to belittle that feat because I think Hip Hop would have died without gaining pop appeal).
Content put together right is lyrics. What is he saying! The greatest lyrical genius of all time is Black Thought. Listen to him every word he says, strings together as a story, and he is talking to you as he does it. St8 content! No space, no additives.
Facts!! We not discrediting LL we just know their were better artist and other artist that had a different impact that changed the game as well. To many greats!!
@@jaybud400 LL never said he was better than anybody. His argument is he’s the most important because he was the first rap superstar and the first artist on Def Jam. He’s wrong but that’s his argument.
@ LL makes a great argument u can’t get mad at it. I was just pointing out that there were other artists in his era and after that changed the rap game who are just as important as Ll hip hop is not a one man culture it would discredit all the other legends if we just put LL as being the most important rapper that’s all 💯there’s plenty of legends that did stuff LL couldn’t do and vice versa. From the words f 2pac “what more can I say I wouldn’t be here today if the old anit payed the way”
@@jaybud400 LL never said he was better than anybody. His argument is he’s the most important because he was the first rap superstar and the first artist on Def Jam. He’s wrong but that’s his argument.
@@Ravenprince-q1g I think you missed my point bro all good overall people can’t get mad at LL take people just need to do their homework on the other greats that paved the way and had great impact 💯
Ever since dudes heard about entendres, they think they're professors of music and poetry. What other musical devices do they know? Lyricism is NOT limited to entendres. "Me and My Girlfriend", the whole song is an entredre. What are y'all even talking about. "Blasph*my", he's switching in-and-out of metaphors and entredres. "Hail Mary", he uses alliteration on the letter P. "If I die tonite", he uses alliteration on the letter P Just because he didn't spend 6 month-6 years crafting a song like Kendrick or Em, doesn't mean there were glimpses of technical proficiency in his writing.
Can we please put the 2Pac topic to rest? No disrespect. I was digging this conversation until dude mentioned him. He definitely was one of the greatest, if not the greatest and I was a fan but this conversation /reference point is so tired. On all fronts and especially on RUclips. Like let it go. My goodness.
LL Cool J is the prototype. He is in every rapper’s DNA. He done a lot of first. He had the first mainstream battles in rap, he was 16 when he started, every album platinum, first rap mainstream love song, and many more. Just like you can say Ice Cube is in every West coast rappers DNA.
He ain't in the DNA of the rappers that inspired him, little boy. Rap existed before LL.
Facts 🎯💯👍🏾🫡
U missed the OPs point, typical girl@@kh7688
AYO saying he "in every rapper's DNA" is WILD. PAUSE! 😭 ⏸️
You can literally throw a party with strictly LL songs
Exactly.
Yeah if you are 40 and up
My mom can for sure
I agree.
@@KHY_001 smh kids never understand anything worth anything
LL Rocked that Jordan 1s on that album cover and it was UP!
LL was 16 when “Radio” dropped…
Rakim.
Tf is radio
@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstubwxyz123 was that a flex lol? Sad
@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstubwxyz123 LL cool J first album was called "I can't live without my radio"
@@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstubwxyz123 I'm looking forward to the day to see kids like you who went from bashing LL Cool J nonstop to now pretending to have been a fan of his
Comparing Pac to Cassidy in anything is wild
Not really Cass is a better technical rapper. But in all the other categories not so much that's what he was explaining and he use a very good analogy with curry and basketball
Bra just bars its cass song making its pac by miles
I think y'all forget Pac didn't live past a certain time.... The state of rap wasn't where it was when Cass was doing what he did, and even still Pac flow, cadence, delivery is second to none til this day ... I'm just not one for comparing a legend of Pac caliber to Cassidy in any right when Cass arguably wasn't the most lyrical of his peak compared to a fab, kiss, beans, Royce etc etc etc... idk I respect y'all view tho
@EjStew06 my guy you adding stuff to the debate we can only go off of what we got we can't speak in hypothetical. We don't no what he would've turned into. And no body said Cass was the best in any pack but every person you named is technically a better rapper than pac it's facts bro
@@GH-vz3wdjust cuz pac read lots of books and know lots of words dont mean he the best lyricist 😂😂😂 yalk dont know the difference its showin
The fact they have to bring up a dead 25 year old 28 years later in these convos shows how great Pac was & still is. LL is not wrong about his opinion. The man been out since 84 still "doing it".
Pac has done everything LL has (minus longevity of course) but L literally was THE FIRST to do it. The man is the blueprint. If you were talking a list, mention Pac. If we’re talking about the originator, it’s LL Cool J
I imagine if Pac Had more time what he could have done
Pac over rated easily
@ that’s blasphemy if I EVER heard it. Were you actually BORN in 08? You can’t humanly have been there in his lifetime
Pac was a GREAT lyricist!! He wasn't WITTY.......but he was a great lyricist
Extremely GREAT
Over Rated
@@rezsurfer2808 u buggin....
Calling 2Pac a B+ is nuts smh get mark tfoh
He's absolutely correct
@NINJA_INVESTORS in what way? I agree Pac wasn't the most lyrical as far as what typical NYers call lyrical but most his songs had meaning and were impactful. What he lacked in word play n punchline he made up for 10 fold in delivery, message, subject matter, charisma, influence etcc. Pac was A++ 30 years later and he's still arguably #1-3
@@PatrickJones23even though I don’t disagree with you this unfortunately is subjective
Its subjective not factual
@@PatrickJones23 That's literally the same point he made
Been saying this since 2005. Once he went platinum 20 years in it was undeniable. At that time only Beastie Boys had managed to drop classics that long.
Only Beastie Boys . May you speak please I don't get what your trying to say?
Beasties at that point had a totally different audience in a different genre of music.
@@mauricejosey1827I’m saying in 2005 Beastie Boys released their sixth classic album in a row and LL Cool J went platinum for his eleventh or twelfth time and both were 20+ years deep and no other hip hop artists could say that. That’s hard to do in any genre.
@@jbsrekees876all of their albums are hip hop. Check Your Head and Ill Communication influenced The Roots Phrenology. Method Man but License to Ill in his top ten best albums. Chris Rock put Paul’s Boutique in his top ten. Ill Communication had Q-Tip on it. And their final album featured Nas. After their second LP they started making their own beats and including punk rock, jazz instrumentals, and more eclectic it songs on their albums. Paul’s Boutique was produced by the Dust Brothers who produced Young MC, Tone Loc, and Beck afterwards. They never changed genres. People just say that because a lot of people never liked having them around. LL put them on Def Jam Mount Rushmore for a reason.
Why is Mark on here?? Chuck D isn’t a Lyricist? He should be Banned From this forum!!
Can’t believe he said that disrespectful shit.
He’s not a lyricist
Chuck D isn’t a lyricist though. Most of his rhymes are very direct and simple, they’re just abrasive for folks who get uncomfortable listening to them or, just don’t like/give a listen to boom-bap hip hop.
Who tf thinks Chuck D is going bar for bar with Nas, G Rap, or Lupe?
LL Cool J made Def Jam and Warren G saved Def Jam let's get it correct 💯 1:59
That's A Fact😎
What Warren G did? For the youth who dont know
Def Jam records. The house that LL built
Big facts
@GawdlyFigures Def Jam at one point was on a decline and Warren G signed with them and breathed life back into it with the G funk era
Cassidy has a great video where explains how dope a lyricist Pac was
Bruuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh WHO MANS IS THIS!? 🤦🏾♂️ why the fk is HE still HERE?! 😂
Tupac did not set the criteria for how to be successful in the business of rap as much as LL, but his artistry is unmatched by any rapper. Tupac, Stevie Wonder, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, etc. He’s on that level.
Tupac comes from a mixture of CUBE and LL Cool J
No he didn’t. Pac didn’t start selling records until 96. Snoop was bigger.
You didn’t name any iconic women
@@mariahwhitneycelinejanetmadona You’re right. That was a true misogynistic blind spot moment. I like artists who write, perform, and have cultural and generational impact, so Lauryn and Nina Simone do it for me.
@ thanks, shuga
I think LL is the most important rapper from a business/industry perspective. He is the rap superstar prototype. But I think Rakim is the most important rapper from a cultural standpoint. He changed the way people rhymed from simple ass "ya momma was a fool. You didnt go to school" to a variance of flows and cadences.
What rakim changed was the “voice” of the flow. The tone. There were guys already rhyming with different cadences and flows before him and some came out around the same time as him. But dudes were used to screaming on the mic, his was more of a laid back monotone flow. Rakim is mos def a monster for sure.
I can’t say enough great things about LL❤
One thing for sure that we all can agree is that LL IS A LEGEND AND PIONEER!!
This is why I never put Em that high on my list.....he can rhyme words better than everyone.....but what the eff do he be saying?!?!??
Yea Em is fluff
1:22 why is he on here to say pacs name with LL is diabolical work
Its all about the delivery... and content..
Pac and DMX and fifty...these guys changed the game....Jordan, kobe and LeBron 🔥🔥🔥🤷
Tupac is the most important
LL laid out a blueprint
Tupac isn’t top 5 most important. He didn’t even start selling records until he went to the label that Snoop made a year before he got himself killed.
Tupac had a number 1 album before he ever signed with death row so you clearly have no clue what you're talking about 😂 @@tony4534
@@nikivory6891 Tupac wasn’t a superstar until he went to Death Row. Before that Snoop was 3 times as big and Warren G was outselling him too.
@@Ravenprince-q1g if you believe that then why exactly is neither artist you mentioned even in the conversation that Tupac is in? You don't have to like him. Your opinion doesn't determine where he is ranked.
@@nikivory6891 He’s only in the conversation because his stans are delusional. And these are the same people who think Pac is from the west and was really in the streets. Facts are facts though and he wasn’t a star until he went to the label that Snoop who was way bigger than him made. And before that Warren G was outselling him as well.
Depends what you value more. For me it's: Delivery > Content > Metaphors and punchlines >= Intricate rhyme schemes > everything else
Some artists can completely ignore certain criteria because they're just that good at everything else, or they're so good at everything that they don't have to be the best at one or two.
I came here looking for an LL topic and they spent the entire time talking about 2pac tf.
So true 😂😂😂
Yea I'm scratching my head.
In 1985 I was breakdancing listening to LL Cool J 🎤🏆🤙🏾💯🔥🔥
Go watch the movie 🍿🎥"Krush Groove", and after that Beat Street and Breakin and Breakin 2 , Wild style 💪🏾🎵
Marc you are crazy…Black Thought is a top tier lyricist and top tier songwriter…its just not for hit records
LL is an ICON>.
YOU JUST FELT THE ENERGY AND PASSION THAT PAC BROUGHT TO THE GAME 💯🫡
I am 47, and Yes LL Cool J, Ice T, and Too Short were all the beginning for me. LL was the one though that was more appropriate to be a fan of as a kid but he was still street.
Too Short is slept on. But I respect the LL take. I can't argue with you
They were all begging for you? You must have been a dime in those days 😂😂😂
@@kh7688 Players fugg up too
People who say 2pac wasn’t lyrical never heard Me Against the world album
Name 1 🔥 verse
@ “If I Die 2Nite”
Marc Hill is a Pac hater on the low.
Not even on the low, Irv Gotti called him out on it a long time ago.
Ll cool j was the first portage of hip hop , his run at def jam build the empire ,he the blueprint for any hip hop artist about longevity, and many different era, he is important to hip hop
Tupac Shakur...
I don't know, I feel like there should be a distinction between lyricism and lyrical gymnastics. Chuck D wasn't doing crazy rhyme schemes but he has some of the most potent bars ever. There's a reason Talib Kweli put "Black Steel in The Hour of Chaos" in his top 10 for hardest verses ever.
Exactly. Lyrics and technique are two different things. You got very technical rappers with wordplay and crazy flow but it's filler. Then you got straightforward Deep Lyrics like Chuck D, Scarface etc
lol the way all three of you have your legs up is CRAZYYYYY
Thank you lol
Zest brothers 😂
Pac and DMX aren't lyricists, they are phrasists. They make a phrase sound dope but they aren't blowing your mind with punchlines, entendres and metaphors.
That's some bullsh*t .
X was a lyricsts
Dumb statement
Bruh what ? DMX and Pac have some bars that blew my mind from a technique standpoint
You literally don't know what the hell you're talking about. And I can tell that you don't listen to the music and you could not know exactly what a metaphor or anything like that is. Because if you knew the music, and if you know what those things actually are he is a Lyricist he puts together syllables you name it double entendres you name it I can literally pull up song after the song where he gets busy lyrically in terms of your rapper rapper shit
Hail Mary is an expert level display of lyricism
LL is HIM. He is the first rapper to go through several eras/decades. There was a small window and you aged out quickly before him. He figured out how to grow through the years with rap. He became bigger than rap. The Don 🐐
MR. HILL an LL hater because nobody was taking about 2pac. It was a conversation about LL. And people like him love to flip the conversation and talk about 2pac or BIG or etc. Has anyone ever stopped and realized most rapper's people bring up was inspired by LL? 2pac or Tupac song Old School, he mentioned LL like 2 or 3 times in the same song out of respect. Joe next time shut him down and tell him to have some respect 🙏. Comparing some rapper's to LL is idiotic sometimes. Learn the Hip Hop history and just respect it. No need to hate on L. We know how great Pac was and still is. We know how great Nas and Big etc etc. But when we talking about L. Let's stop the hate and show some love.
that basketball analogy was PERFECT!!!
LL and Tupac are the most important rappers of all time
Rakim.
@@tony4534 top 5 lyricist yes. Most important nope
@@EHN2024 Rakim.
100%. Plenty of people not far behind, but those two had the biggest impact before everything was laid out. After them, the conversation gets a lot longer lol
@@belogikal i agree
2pac slander be crazy...smh..2pac is the 🐐
That fact that this conversation turned into a long Tupac debate is the perfect example of why LL will never actually be talked about being as important as he actually was/is
Because he’s an industry rapper. He’s more famous for his image than his music.
Definitely top 5 / top 10 essential hip-hop artist of all time
Marc 2pac argument is dumb and he got destroyed. That's why he is walking back. I hate when people say Jeezy isn't lyrical. We just listening to 2 different things then lol.
This video motivated me. Your humbleness is truly refreshing.
Listen to Tupac "Still I Rise" verse from that Outlawz album. He wasn't the best lyricist at all times but Joe is right, it's what you say & how you say it.
Pac/Dmx/50 in their primes had simple rhyme schemes compared to other elite but were incredible songwriters with amazing deliveries. Those are my favorite type of rappers. I’ll throw Jeezy in there as well.
This is exceptional work! Your talent shines through. Can’t wait to more.
LL cool J Definitely is one of the most popular artists ever and facts he did so much 🐐 💯👍🏾🫡💪🏾
LL is a pivotal and transformational part of hip hop...him and Kool Moe Dee was the first rap beef I remember.
Never throw shade at Black Thought! 10 minutes with Flex!
LLCJ help the game in monumental ways! 💵💯✌🏾
Are they going out of their way to not understand Marc? They keep saying that content outweighs lyricism, but he never said it didn't. He's not making a "one or the other" argument. He's comparing two rappers in one single skill category. His argument makes sense, even if you don't agree.
What they are trying to convey (Ish tried to but did it poorly) is the more intricate your story the harder it is to rhyme/word play/entendres, the less you have to say the easier it is to do those things; so the difficulty of lyricism has to include storytelling with the other parts and should not be in a separate category.
@@andrewwilson8144 that's fine. But Marc never made a statement to contradict that. He literally started the debate saying that Pac is a better overall artist than Cassidy, but he believes that Cassidy is better in the one specific category of lyricism. He never even said that lyricism outweighs content/message. But at the end of the day the two skills aren't mutually exclusive. You can, and many artist are, better at (or at least lean on) one aspect than the other. They act like he said Pac sucked or you aren't a good rapper if you don't complicate your bars. The never once addressed his actual point/opinion
"Pac is not a great lyricist" is the most ridiculous thing ive ever ever ever heard lmfao
Cassidy better than 2pac is diabolical
He's your favorite rapper's, favorite rapper.
6:03 Talk that ISH!
Lyricism is about Wordplay . If we are putting it in subcategories there are Clever metaphors, Cool multi-syllable rhyme schemes, and Entendres.
LL is THE GOAT
I’ve heard some of my elders echo the same sentiment I just never did the research. He was way before my era
This man had a whole book made out of his lyrics definitely one of the greatest lyricist one of the best with relatable content
“and do it, and do it , and doing it well” I represent Queens she was raised out of Brooklyn “! Goat
First off PAC was most definitely a lyricist and often slept on his many stories and ability to take real events and turn them into rhymes. Hence Brenda’s got a baby. Which was a true story that he read about in the newspaper
Wow .... This man said Pac wasn't lyrical 🤣 stick to politics Mark... Yeah he was more passionate than anything but Pac had lyrics to
all depends with what your definition of lyricism is.
@proudmisfit4405 He wasn't Biggie, Jay, or Nas, but he wasn't little yati either 🤣
At 1st I thought he was trippin but I understand his point now
Edit: but he needs to be jail for his mac cheese point he trippin 🤣🤣
PAC was not lyrical lmfaoooo
Has this man ever made a metaphor in a song?
Mostly the voice- Gang Starr
Do your research
Wait, but isn’t the content made up of the lyrics and emotion/delivery?
Now that we've FINALLY made it to this part of the conversation.
Use this same measuring stick for who is the GOAT.
Joe knows the difference between a lyricist and a rapper. common man.
LL and Tupac Truly are game changers!!! For sure
Pac changed nothing.
@@tony4534nah fam pac made anthems for the world and about change meaning also the swagg be duplicated a lot with rappers emulating pac and even till this day he’s a culture changer
@@Dkirk215 The only thing Pac changed was he made it cool to be fake.
@@tony4534 still inspired a lot of rappers bro even Kendrick today is pac reincarnated as he would say
@@Dkirk215 The only Pac inspired rappers to do was be fake.
Joe been rocking the Reebok classics I
Fuk wit it
This is 100% on point hands down
My man was on the ropes until that Steph Curry analogy. Great example.
Nah. They were just putting their ignorance on full display. It was nothing but straw men...
Wrong. Someone can be your favorite but not the best. That’s personal. Technical is like here’s the great dunker. Thousands away from a Steph comparison.
Cassidy better than 2Pac? Smh he smoking meth bro
HE CAME UP WITH THE PHRASE G.O.A.T. ENOUGH SAID🤷🏾💯
It’s LL and it’s not even close. He brought smooth to hip hop
Rakim.
I would say Rakim is more important to me personally, if we’re talking about the evolution of Hip Hop, but if we’re talking about pushing Hip Hop to the mainstream and giving it more pop appeal, than it might be LL (which is not to belittle that feat because I think Hip Hop would have died without gaining pop appeal).
LL speaking FACTS!!!!
7:43 I never laughed so hard..
That's Wayne falls short in the goat discussions
Lyricism! Bars overall!!🎉
Content put together right is lyrics. What is he saying! The greatest lyrical genius of all time is Black Thought. Listen to him every word he says, strings together as a story, and he is talking to you as he does it. St8 content! No space, no additives.
😭😭😭 Ish cold for that line but nah I was expectin yall to talk about LL
Steph caught a Stray out of nowhere 😂
LL is truly the GOAT.
7:29 bro said he love doing whattttttttttttt?
AYOOOOOOOOOOOO
😂😂
I clearly understood Marks point and I’m a Tupac Stan!!!!!!
Pac did all that too tho... multis, internals, inflections schemes, content and concepts... cas has better punchers or crazier bars.. but you Buggn
Man you guys went off topic
Steph is one of the most athletic. He isn’t 6’8 245, but looks at what he does
This dude is the male version of Melissa ford lol
You wouldn’t remember Melyssa Ford was alive if it wasn’t for Joe.
@@tony4534 i keep forgetting how delulu yall are
I can't tell if some of y'all are hindsight glazing cause I never heard any of you mention LL til now 😂
Crooked I will surely have a response video on Marc Lamont saying Tupac isn't lyrical lol
Idk about the most important ONE but he’s up there. I don’t think any one rapper can take that title.
Facts!! We not discrediting LL we just know their were better artist and other artist that had a different impact that changed the game as well. To many greats!!
@@jaybud400 LL never said he was better than anybody. His argument is he’s the most important because he was the first rap superstar and the first artist on Def Jam. He’s wrong but that’s his argument.
@ LL makes a great argument u can’t get mad at it. I was just pointing out that there were other artists in his era and after that changed the rap game who are just as important as Ll hip hop is not a one man culture it would discredit all the other legends if we just put LL as being the most important rapper that’s all 💯there’s plenty of legends that did stuff LL couldn’t do and vice versa. From the words f 2pac “what more can I say I wouldn’t be here today if the old anit payed the way”
@@jaybud400 LL never said he was better than anybody. His argument is he’s the most important because he was the first rap superstar and the first artist on Def Jam. He’s wrong but that’s his argument.
@@Ravenprince-q1g I think you missed my point bro all good overall people can’t get mad at LL take people just need to do their homework on the other greats that paved the way and had great impact 💯
2pac not a great lyricist? Unbelievable
Picking Royce over Qtip is insane
He is the Goat
Rakim.
Ever since dudes heard about entendres, they think they're professors of music and poetry. What other musical devices do they know? Lyricism is NOT limited to entendres.
"Me and My Girlfriend", the whole song is an entredre. What are y'all even talking about.
"Blasph*my", he's switching in-and-out of metaphors and entredres.
"Hail Mary", he uses alliteration on the letter P.
"If I die tonite", he uses alliteration on the letter P
Just because he didn't spend 6 month-6 years crafting a song like Kendrick or Em, doesn't mean there were glimpses of technical proficiency in his writing.
LL Cool J coined the term 🐐
First rap superstar of all time
Can we please put the 2Pac topic to rest? No disrespect. I was digging this conversation until dude mentioned him. He definitely was one of the greatest, if not the greatest and I was a fan but this conversation /reference point is so tired. On all fronts and especially on RUclips. Like let it go. My goodness.
I get what he’s saying. The more times goes on I “think” the more people might agree with him