I got a lot of crap for saying this but I feel like mental illness does not excuse criminal behavior. Saying we should feel bad for Martha is like saying we should feel bad for OJ since there was a good chance he had CTE.
I suffer from quite a bit of mental illnesses, and I can easily say you're totally correct. Don't let those people who don't know what they're talking about give you crap for it. Understanding that mental illness played a part in what someone did does not excuse the action if the action was extreme, like criminal behavior. A bipolar person gets mad at you for something small you say that wasnt meant to make them mad is understandable and easily forgivable, that same person beating you up for it isn't acceptable regardless of mental illness.
@@lancewalker2595 He's not saying he has no pity for them. He's saying it's no excuse. That's very different. It's no one's place to determine another souls "level of Christianity". That's something very personal for everyone and all Christian's should know that.
@@callum7081Hard law and order. Because full throttle empathy governing laws would lead to everyone being felt for, for any number of reasons. Which, when broken down, would inevitably lead to nothing really meaning anything and all people being allowed to do anything. Because we could empathize with their reasoning. You can empathize with a person, certainly. And should always try. As to better understand. But that empathy should hold no barring on hard right and wrong law. If a person becomes dangerously violent, even if you can empathize, that should not legally justify those actions. Or else we are all just playing at society and not actually taking it seriously. I don't believe that's a strategy for a long lasting society.
Enjoyed listening to this, but Teri's hair does not fall out because of dysphoria-induced depression; Martha rips a big chunk of it out during the attack in the pub.
I want to see Gadd's rapist be revealed. They MUST stand trial for the obscene crimes they have committed. They CANNOT continue to walk free. Who is Darrien in real life?
I loved how Klavan said, "Here's a little bit of the trailer" and it cut to an ad with a woman holding an axe selling me cannabis. Not part of the video, for sure, but an absolutely wonderful ad placement.
Everyone wants to simplify the human condition, good vs bad, right vs wrong. The reality is we are all shades of grey… life is complicated and most of us are simply doing our best. I thought this show did a good job of expressing how there is good and bad in all of us and life is full of questionable decisions… some beyond our control. There’s no happy ending or obvious winner or looser here which we’ve come to expect in movies. Real life just doesn’t work like that…
I’m not really religious, or conservative, but I appreciated your takes on this. I sometimes can’t watch conservative or religious content if it’s very rigid, refusing to consider something or see it from another perspective. You offered some points I really agree with, and I was able to watch this all the way through and give it a like 👍🏻 This is how to have a conversation without hatred
That's the biggest problem. These people don't even know that their misplaced sexuality is simply them refusing to understand that God defines who and what we are. Sexuality is not your identity; your identity is grounded in the reality of God.
I just finished watching the mini series on Netflix called "Twin Flames" about a cult that targets people that need to find acceptance and connection. It is devastating the lengths one will go to and the lies one will believe to have these two things. :(
As a Canadian who lived in the UK a couple of different times, I can say that Baby Reindeer represents a particularly common British loneliness. The overweight middle aged woman. The drink & drug using young man. The depressed looking drab socialist cities. It’s a prosecution of modern Britain.
@@crobeastness Watched it on Netflix.. Shit load of episodes best one is when he found out she was recording their interactions, and he thought he setting her up. So you know shit you smug loser.
Andrew, I have been a pastor for 20 years. You are truly a gifted Theologian who discerns the intermarriage between Theology and Spirituality. I appreciate your insight.
@@JohnSmith-qx8ll some people, who neither know Christ as Lord or King, co-opt His glorious Name to advance their own agenda or cause. It’s not a joke to rightfully point this out.
@@RobAnderssen that’s not what is being questioned. That someone “may do something” is not a valid argument in support of a such a completely foolish and contradictory statement such as his. It’s a complete avoidance of the issue.
I actually liked how the show ended.I thought it was apt- He cannot escape the cage he is in, even if the cage is open, he goes back in or decides to stay in there. He is incapable of leaving. I remember thinking, 'this poor man needs Jesus.'
@@madwhitehare3635 The whole idea of this show made me nauseous. 🤢 I already planned on not watching this but after reading your comment it's solidified my choice even more, thank you.
It's hard to believe that someone as educated as Klavan could make so obvious an error as to misinterpret Matt 7:1-3, the "judge not" verses, which was an admonishment by Christ to not be a hypocrite, not to never judge, not to judge others by a standard in which you do not meet instead of never standing up for any moral rectitude. It goes to show that you can take the leftist out of the left, but you can't possibly undo all the stupidities of the left inside him. And Klavan holds onto these stupidities more than most. He simply cannot deal with the fact he has a gay son and that this is at odds with a Christ-centered life. He refuses to make a choice between his son and the Son of God. And so, sadly, you can expect Jesus will tell Drew, "I never knew you."
Im not religious but this is a very important fact about relationships, it’s about wanting to be seen at the end of the day, and this is where we are now, and how we put so much emphasis on getting away from the shame and be really seen by our intimate relationships, but being entirely quietly desperate about it.
Thank you! I know some conservatives are not going to watch the series and they are going to criticize it, calling it disgusting. Well… I thought it was very well made, and is such a good insight into why so many people are sexually confused. Sooo many people are traumatized and have PTSD. Sooo many people have been sexually abused, and that’s why they are confused and this miserable mess. There are a lot of hurt people out there. And it’s important not to only judge, but to understand. I’m sure there are even many conservatives who are sexually confused. Maybe they’ve had a gay experience or multiple, or maybe they have an issue like a straight sexual addiction, or a porn addiction, or a cheating problem. There’s a lot of problems people have. And instead of shaming yourself or shaming others, try to unpack WHY. Heal yourself. And heal others.
I don’t say this to claim that it’s ok to be shameless and act in whatever sexually degenerate way you wish. But get over the shame enough to unpack why you are behaving this way or want to behave this way. So that you can get past it and NOT behave this way any more.
Only Jesus Christ can heal you, you can’t heal yourself and definitely no one else can, you can adapt and cope but healing is transcendent in Christ alone.
It was a miss for me. Suspense and pacing was missing or inconsistent. Also it used that overused trope where he goes to the police station and the officer just “doesn’t believe him” for the sake of stretching the story into six episodes. Meanwhile all he had to mention is that the woman had been a notorious stalker and has been charged / in the news multiple times previously (and he later does this). Overall I was really frustrated with the main character and him being totally unfunny didn’t help.
The main character is supposed to be frustrating that is the point. He makes wrong decisions because his trauma makes him act out in ways that are illogical. Also the police thing wasnt a trope because in real life he didn’t receive aid from police for 6 years
The great question, Andrew Klavan asks while using “Baby Reindeer” as a medium, is: Where are you looking for yourself? He himself is preoccupied with finding this self in the entertainment industry, and he himself is certainly very entertaining and witty. But doesn’t he understand, that being in the entertainment modus is not conducive to finding anything but entertainment -? Certainly not your eternal self which it objects to and obstructs by all means! Can Andrew Klavan’s real self in fact be found among one of Kierkegaard’s refined aesthetic characters?
Before this video, I would never have watched this show. After this video, no version of me in all of the infinite dimensions will ever watch this show.
I know that we often go overboard in the whole judgement thing, and perhaps we can blur the lines between the person and the sin, but I think the point here is that we're fighting for the principle. It isn't that we want homosexuality outlawed and gay people locked up. It's that we want society to acknowledge that it isn't a _good thing._ You might argue that it's a person's right to do heroin, but almost no one says that heroin is a good thing. Or that we should celebrate junkies, encourage them, and assist them to get high. We don't shame people for being anti-heroin. In the same way homosexuality is bad. It's bad for society and bad for individuals. We should treat it like heroin use as far as our attitudes towards it go. Obviously, art deals with all levels of the human condition, and exploring these things is a prerogative of art. But we reactionary conservatives aren't entirely in the wrong for being so reactionary, methinks. Because we know that there is a very large section of society that applauds the _degeneracy,_ rather than what the art reveals about the human condition. If we had a consensus about homosexuality being bad, then I think we would be less reactionary to the art. A lot of us anyway. You'll still get people (like me) who will just go 'blech, homo crap, no thanks' and tune out, but not so many. So, yeah, I think our attitudes are so reactionary because of the disturbed society we live in.
according to Johnathan Haidt's Two Tribes study, Conservatives read and listen to the media and news on both sides but the leftists and mainstream people only get the leftist mainstream viewpoint. The left are literally in sth bubble avoiding to research because most news is left.
Thank you for an intelligent take on something I had no interest in viewing. It sounded like a slog through a stranger's trauma. Seeing a bit of the trailer here (and realizing it was supposed to be a comedy) made it even less appealing. Glad I didn't bother. Cheers.
If you can understand your maladaptive coping mechanisms, you move beyond them and heal your actual emotional and spiritual wounds. Hopefully moving towards a relationship with your savior, with God. There is value in everything Klavan is talking about. When you actually care about really helping hurt and broken people, rather than shunning them from an Ivory tower. Which might be your protective coping mechanism.
I know, I know...late, well...really late. I have been a life long Christian. Now, we are in the world, not of it. Yeshua Jesus left His house and He walked among us. That was the big case...He disobeyed the rules. He ate with sinners and prostitutes, he cured pathetic people! How could anyone ever come to Yeshua Jesus if we didn't go out and have friends and good food and wine, great movies, music and laughter. The thing is to stay strong and follow Yeshua Jesus through it all without being holier than thou!! Well, Andrew, you know the drill! Blessings!!
I watched the first four episodes with my wife… it was interesting in parts and depressing in others. Once the rape part happens it was getting to be a bit much. As I get older I am tired of seeing stories about willing or at least people who give up and become passive participants in their own life. Time is short and why waste my time on this when I can read or listen to something better. I mean classics like Twain or Dickens.
I didn’t really for sorry for Martha, tbh, but I didn’t feel sorry for the so-called protagonist either. He went back to his rapist so many times that he blatantly became a danger to himself (and others for not denouncing) so he is clinically mentally ill also. It’s not the mental illness that I have a problem with, it’s that somehow he tells a story where he is the victim, but he went back to Martha over-and-over again too. In this way, he is partly responsible for the situations he put himself through. When he went back to his rapist who offers him a job with pay, he sent a message that it pays off, which many people might believe is how the entertainment industry works. Just like all the women who made SA claims years after milking fame to feed their narcissism against Weinstein, Epstein and anyone else. Anyone realize how many people get SAed that get no special treatment, attention or cash settlement bc they don’t seek out attention who did nothing to facilitate their SA? I don’t like the victim-mentality … that pays off if you let the right people exploit you message that this sends. But I suppose it’s a reflection of the times. Which is tragic.
This just shows you know nothing about human psycology. If you want to understand you can, we all need to learn more about humans, to be better to each other.
@@dbkg87 that’s your opinion. And I’m not a psychologist BTW bc it’s a crutch that is destroying society with excuses and victim mentality. In other words, everyone wants to image I their own delusion they are god or superior but act like victims when their bubble is burst. I know plenty about psychology. Enough to know that he is exploiting the situation for profit and that manipulates situations to benefit him. Most psychologist don’t provide any insight to correct faulty thinking or behaviors, only medications. We know how that has turned out for society. People just want to be medicated. They don’t care about psychology, if your argument is that I don’t know anything about psychology. When you use CBT, you have to address the problem. This guy is manipulative, it’s just passive aggressive, for now.
@@dbkg87 I’m not a psychologist but I know a fair share of what you referred to as human psychology. There is another type of psychology that applies here? When a person seeks out what they have identified as their problem or their assaulted, they are not well. But if they are profiting by seeking out the same issues, that’s questionable, then they are exploiting themselves. When their behaviors cause problems for other people, then they are also exploiting other people. Why didn’t he file charges against his rapist? I think that’s a fair and valid question, even in relation to how he depicts Martha. So, then he could be even more of a threat to others, possible have some or a combo of the dark triad personality traits, even if it’s not outwardly evident bc he portrays himself as a victim. Even Ted Bundy initially portrayed himself as a victim.
Bambi ended either as roadkill, or eaten alive by a predator after a 3 to 6 year lifespan. The numbers give about a 90% probability to that second option by the way.
Donny is not trying to find his identity through his sexuality, he knows he wants to be a comedian and he's sexually abused by a man wanting to believe that this man was going to help him achieve his dreams and that traumatizes him, which leads him to explores his sexuality in different ways, and the Donny is very honest about not knowing whether he was always attracted to men or it came as a result of the abuse, to reduce this to "he wants to find his identity through his sexuality" is ridiculous and obviously your inserting your politics here. Also, the reason he couldn't be aroused by Teri is not because she's trans, it's because he was traumatized by the abuse... and you accuse the creator of not understanding his own show lmao.
It’s a limited series, not a movie. Try watching an episode or two, you may be surprised. It’s a new perspective & an important one to hear & consider.
Black comedy is dark comedy, meaning making fun of deeply gruesome and painful, even tragic, things. Laughing through immense pain. Hoping you didn’t think it has anything to do with race…? Because this show is exactly that, black or dark humor.
Why did klavan call the trans stalker a "she/her"? Between this and believing in the concept of same sex marriage, i wonder how he can call himself conservative?
I always hate the comments on videos like this because everybody here collectively shares two brain cells. You clearly did not watch the video or take anything of value from it (like the interesting point at 12:45), so don't leave random comments about how "No like show because trans bad". Goodness.
As a snowflake and mental health professional, I was fully prepared to hate this video, but ended up really impressed by your knowledge, depth, and balance. Thank you.
If you're going to make an entire video on this, please take the time to learn how to pronounce his name correctly, (which is a very easy name). It distracts from the point you're trying to make, and it's just good journalism.
I've watched it. I'd say it's woke adjacent/woke critical. It's well acted and honestly written. Recently Piers Morgan managed to track down the real-life stalker and interviewed her. Also rumours are circulating as to who the male rapist is because in the show he's depicted as a well known TV British comedy showrunner. Sometimes you have to give the devil it's due....
While I appreciate your review, I won't watch this because I am not defined as a spiritual person by my sexuality. I also don't demonize others but one side thinks the other is crazy and moves on while the other side thinks we should be exterminated for our beliefs. Big difference. I agree that the right can't pull the trigger to move us forward as a species but I also believe there will come a time when the left gives us no other choice and it will not end well for either side.
@@Lastwartipsandtricks Complete BS. Jesus judged people all the time. He said he came to bring a sword. He called Peter "satan" and told him to get behind him. He said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven. He said most people are on the wide path to hell and few take the narrow path. He busted heads in the temple. It goes on and on and on. Did you even bother reading the gospels? Or did you just take some heretic's word for it?
Teri's upset because Martha attacked her and pulled her hair out. Not because she's not sure of who she is. She's really the strongest person in the entire show.
No doubt she's a weirdo but so is he and he brought it upon himself and encouraged her to a certain extent. The best part of the series was the soundtrack. The rest was guff
In mr. Klavan’s defense: He can’t do Kierkegaard justice in five minutes. To common readers with a Christian bent - and others - I can recommend a free ebook, PROVOCATIONS: Acclaims by Richard Mouw, Fuller Theological Seminary: “Kierkegaard’s writings seem to get more “contemporary” every year. This well-selected collection of writings should be read and re-read by everyone who is attempting to minister to our present generation.”
I got a lot of crap for saying this but I feel like mental illness does not excuse criminal behavior. Saying we should feel bad for Martha is like saying we should feel bad for OJ since there was a good chance he had CTE.
What’s the alternative to empathy and why is it a better strategy?
I suffer from quite a bit of mental illnesses, and I can easily say you're totally correct. Don't let those people who don't know what they're talking about give you crap for it. Understanding that mental illness played a part in what someone did does not excuse the action if the action was extreme, like criminal behavior. A bipolar person gets mad at you for something small you say that wasnt meant to make them mad is understandable and easily forgivable, that same person beating you up for it isn't acceptable regardless of mental illness.
You don't pity criminals? How very Christian of you.
@@lancewalker2595 He's not saying he has no pity for them. He's saying it's no excuse. That's very different. It's no one's place to determine another souls "level of Christianity". That's something very personal for everyone and all Christian's should know that.
@@callum7081Hard law and order. Because full throttle empathy governing laws would lead to everyone being felt for, for any number of reasons. Which, when broken down, would inevitably lead to nothing really meaning anything and all people being allowed to do anything. Because we could empathize with their reasoning. You can empathize with a person, certainly. And should always try. As to better understand. But that empathy should hold no barring on hard right and wrong law. If a person becomes dangerously violent, even if you can empathize, that should not legally justify those actions. Or else we are all just playing at society and not actually taking it seriously. I don't believe that's a strategy for a long lasting society.
Enjoyed listening to this, but Teri's hair does not fall out because of dysphoria-induced depression; Martha rips a big chunk of it out during the attack in the pub.
Look at the BOOTS, favorite thing in the 3-1/2 garbage episodes I watched
Very strange take, to be honest. I dont think it's relevant to the issue. Sex was a big issue in the series, but it was the symptom, not the cause.
I always love Klavan for going art first, politics second. Mad respect, even when I disagree with the takes.
You win the comments 🏆
I want to see Gadd's rapist be revealed. They MUST stand trial for the obscene crimes they have committed. They CANNOT continue to walk free. Who is Darrien in real life?
I loved how Klavan said, "Here's a little bit of the trailer" and it cut to an ad with a woman holding an axe selling me cannabis. Not part of the video, for sure, but an absolutely wonderful ad placement.
Always Weird when that happens!
Happened dozens of times.
Ads? what ads?
Everyone wants to simplify the human condition, good vs bad, right vs wrong. The reality is we are all shades of grey… life is complicated and most of us are simply doing our best. I thought this show did a good job of expressing how there is good and bad in all of us and life is full of questionable decisions… some beyond our control. There’s no happy ending or obvious winner or looser here which we’ve come to expect in movies. Real life just doesn’t work like that…
I’m not really religious, or conservative, but I appreciated your takes on this.
I sometimes can’t watch conservative or religious content if it’s very rigid, refusing to consider something or see it from another perspective. You offered some points I really agree with, and I was able to watch this all the way through and give it a like 👍🏻
This is how to have a conversation without hatred
That's the biggest problem. These people don't even know that their misplaced sexuality is simply them refusing to understand that God defines who and what we are. Sexuality is not your identity; your identity is grounded in the reality of God.
Why do we need to know about this. Of course it’s devastating for a young person to be molested. It ruins lives.
What?
I just finished watching the mini series on Netflix called "Twin Flames" about a cult that targets people that need to find acceptance and connection. It is devastating the lengths one will go to and the lies one will believe to have these two things. :(
As a Canadian who lived in the UK a couple of different times, I can say that Baby Reindeer represents a particularly common British loneliness. The overweight middle aged woman. The drink & drug using young man. The depressed looking drab socialist cities.
It’s a prosecution of modern Britain.
I watched this movie [series] this past weekend with my wife. The only disagreement I have with you is, I actually thought it was great.
It's a miniseries not a movie, that's how I know you haven't seen it.
@@crobeastness the mini series was very good.
@@crobeastness Watched it on Netflix.. Shit load of episodes best one is when he found out she was recording their interactions, and he thought he setting her up. So you know shit you smug loser.
I would not watch Baby Reindeer, but I'm glad I didn't miss the review. Klavan has great insight into spirituality!
He misgendered the stalker. He called him a her (his preferred pronouns). That's not conservative at all.
Bit hard to know what he is talking about.
My favorite part is when the reindeer has a baby, and then everybody looks at the baby reindeer. Beautiful. 😊
That was touching, heard his nose lights up!
@endthelogin yeah, there's cut footage of santa saying "I need you tonight!" To him in the unrated version. Lol
Andrew, I have been a pastor for 20 years. You are truly a gifted Theologian who discerns the intermarriage between Theology and Spirituality. I appreciate your insight.
lol! Yes a truly gifted theologian who thinks saying Christ is King is “anti-Semitic”
What a joke
@@JohnSmith-qx8ll some people, who neither know Christ as Lord or King, co-opt His glorious Name to advance their own agenda or cause.
It’s not a joke to rightfully point this out.
@@RobAnderssen that’s not what is being questioned. That someone “may do something” is not a valid argument in support of a such a completely foolish and contradictory statement such as his.
It’s a complete avoidance of the issue.
nothing comic about it..pure tragedy
In all fairness the show was better that Jackson's paintings lol.
I don't think you get it at all
Everyone is welcome to their own interpretation.
… like, at all
I actually liked how the show ended.I thought it was apt- He cannot escape the cage he is in, even if the cage is open, he goes back in or decides to stay in there. He is incapable of leaving. I remember thinking, 'this poor man needs Jesus.'
I feel like I need a shower just hearing about this.
What do you expect from the (((DW)))
I watched it. Even steel wool didn't work. Don't watch it. It epitomises the decay of humankind and the cringeness of the 1st world.
@@madwhitehare3635 The whole idea of this show made me nauseous. 🤢 I already planned on not watching this but after reading your comment it's solidified my choice even more, thank you.
@@madwhitehare3635 really? What part?
I was fascinated the first few episodes until the rape scene episode played. I turned it off and was so discussed. Wish I never saw it.
It's hard to believe that someone as educated as Klavan could make so obvious an error as to misinterpret Matt 7:1-3, the "judge not" verses, which was an admonishment by Christ to not be a hypocrite, not to never judge, not to judge others by a standard in which you do not meet instead of never standing up for any moral rectitude. It goes to show that you can take the leftist out of the left, but you can't possibly undo all the stupidities of the left inside him. And Klavan holds onto these stupidities more than most. He simply cannot deal with the fact he has a gay son and that this is at odds with a Christ-centered life. He refuses to make a choice between his son and the Son of God. And so, sadly, you can expect Jesus will tell Drew, "I never knew you."
Priest should not be therapist. Imposing dogma upon people struggling with mental health is exceptionally cruel.
Im not religious but this is a very important fact about relationships, it’s about wanting to be seen at the end of the day, and this is where we are now, and how we put so much emphasis on getting away from the shame and be really seen by our intimate relationships, but being entirely quietly desperate about it.
Thank you! I know some conservatives are not going to watch the series and they are going to criticize it, calling it disgusting. Well… I thought it was very well made, and is such a good insight into why so many people are sexually confused. Sooo many people are traumatized and have PTSD. Sooo many people have been sexually abused, and that’s why they are confused and this miserable mess. There are a lot of hurt people out there. And it’s important not to only judge, but to understand. I’m sure there are even many conservatives who are sexually confused. Maybe they’ve had a gay experience or multiple, or maybe they have an issue like a straight sexual addiction, or a porn addiction, or a cheating problem. There’s a lot of problems people have. And instead of shaming yourself or shaming others, try to unpack WHY. Heal yourself. And heal others.
I don’t say this to claim that it’s ok to be shameless and act in whatever sexually degenerate way you wish. But get over the shame enough to unpack why you are behaving this way or want to behave this way. So that you can get past it and NOT behave this way any more.
As a former degenerate, there’s nothing healthy about trying to understand degeneracy if you’re lucky to be a few steps away from the mire.
Only Jesus Christ can heal you, you can’t heal yourself and definitely no one else can, you can adapt and cope but healing is transcendent in Christ alone.
It was a miss for me. Suspense and pacing was missing or inconsistent. Also it used that overused trope where he goes to the police station and the officer just “doesn’t believe him” for the sake of stretching the story into six episodes. Meanwhile all he had to mention is that the woman had been a notorious stalker and has been charged / in the news multiple times previously (and he later does this). Overall I was really frustrated with the main character and him being totally unfunny didn’t help.
He said that to the police multiple times... 6+ months for 7 episodes is fine.
The main character is supposed to be frustrating that is the point. He makes wrong decisions because his trauma makes him act out in ways that are illogical. Also the police thing wasnt a trope because in real life he didn’t receive aid from police for 6 years
Interesting review of something that looks awful.
No thanks, there are many artful ways to express sin, the human condition and redemption without dumpster diving.
Exactly! We’ve seen a thousand movies with gross, depraved behavior, how few end in repentance
The great question, Andrew Klavan asks while using “Baby Reindeer” as a medium, is: Where are you looking for yourself?
He himself is preoccupied with finding this self in the entertainment industry, and he himself is certainly very entertaining and witty. But doesn’t he understand, that being in the entertainment modus is not conducive to finding anything but entertainment -? Certainly not your eternal self which it objects to and obstructs by all means!
Can Andrew Klavan’s real self in fact be found among one of Kierkegaard’s refined aesthetic characters?
The CIA ruined Art by throwing money at people like Pollock et al...
Before this video, I would never have watched this show. After this video, no version of me in all of the infinite dimensions will ever watch this show.
I know that we often go overboard in the whole judgement thing, and perhaps we can blur the lines between the person and the sin, but I think the point here is that we're fighting for the principle. It isn't that we want homosexuality outlawed and gay people locked up. It's that we want society to acknowledge that it isn't a _good thing._
You might argue that it's a person's right to do heroin, but almost no one says that heroin is a good thing. Or that we should celebrate junkies, encourage them, and assist them to get high. We don't shame people for being anti-heroin. In the same way homosexuality is bad. It's bad for society and bad for individuals. We should treat it like heroin use as far as our attitudes towards it go.
Obviously, art deals with all levels of the human condition, and exploring these things is a prerogative of art. But we reactionary conservatives aren't entirely in the wrong for being so reactionary, methinks. Because we know that there is a very large section of society that applauds the _degeneracy,_ rather than what the art reveals about the human condition.
If we had a consensus about homosexuality being bad, then I think we would be less reactionary to the art. A lot of us anyway. You'll still get people (like me) who will just go 'blech, homo crap, no thanks' and tune out, but not so many. So, yeah, I think our attitudes are so reactionary because of the disturbed society we live in.
The conservative echo chamber
Klavan, when he's defending a product of Leftist media?
Do you know what "echo chamber" means?
according to Johnathan Haidt's Two Tribes study, Conservatives read and listen to the media and news on both sides but the leftists and mainstream people only get the leftist mainstream viewpoint. The left are literally in sth bubble avoiding to research because most news is left.
Sex is a poor substitute for religion. People have no purpose/meaning and sexual pleasure does not fulfill man’s search for meaning.
Some religious people diddle kids 😅 what point you trying to make.
tell that to the catholic church
@johngreydanus2033 I wrote a similar comment. u tube deleted it
Lol what
It's not about sex. It's about self.
Hedonistic idolatry.
Thank you for an intelligent take on something I had no interest in viewing. It sounded like a slog through a stranger's trauma. Seeing a bit of the trailer here (and realizing it was supposed to be a comedy) made it even less appealing. Glad I didn't bother. Cheers.
I think that was a great reflection and take on the series.
I will not be wasting my limited time watching a movie about that crap.
I would hate to think of where my life would be if I thought that way. If you opened your mind you might actually learn something
What some of the movies you watch
If you can understand your maladaptive coping mechanisms, you move beyond them and heal your actual emotional and spiritual wounds. Hopefully moving towards a relationship with your savior, with God.
There is value in everything Klavan is talking about. When you actually care about really helping hurt and broken people, rather than shunning them from an Ivory tower. Which might be your protective coping mechanism.
@@mschenandlerbong8539 U aint saying anything bro
@@tatbaz1 You only have so many minutes of life.
It's better to spend them learning something useful instead.
There’s no hate quite like Christian love.
Garbage through and through
Very good. You’re speaking truth.
Beautiful. The God of Love..
Not the series, it was dramatized..
I know, I know...late, well...really late. I have been a life long Christian. Now, we are in the world, not of it. Yeshua Jesus left His house and He walked among us. That was the big case...He disobeyed the rules. He ate with sinners and prostitutes, he cured pathetic people! How could anyone ever come to Yeshua Jesus if we didn't go out and have friends and good food and wine, great movies, music and laughter. The thing is to stay strong and follow Yeshua Jesus through it all without being holier than thou!! Well, Andrew, you know the drill! Blessings!!
I disagree with your assessment as many offer a different take...
I watched the first four episodes with my wife… it was interesting in parts and depressing in others. Once the rape part happens it was getting to be a bit much. As I get older I am tired of seeing stories about willing or at least people who give up and become passive participants in their own life. Time is short and why waste my time on this when I can read or listen to something better. I mean classics like Twain or Dickens.
Are there so many systems set up around us to run automatically, that we are formed with a certain amount of passivity?
Conservative here. Love baby reinday. Its so raw
I loved this analysis.
Why tf was this recommended to me
Brilliant analysis.
I didn’t really for sorry for Martha, tbh, but I didn’t feel sorry for the so-called protagonist either. He went back to his rapist so many times that he blatantly became a danger to himself (and others for not denouncing) so he is clinically mentally ill also. It’s not the mental illness that I have a problem with, it’s that somehow he tells a story where he is the victim, but he went back to Martha over-and-over again too. In this way, he is partly responsible for the situations he put himself through. When he went back to his rapist who offers him a job with pay, he sent a message that it pays off, which many people might believe is how the entertainment industry works. Just like all the women who made SA claims years after milking fame to feed their narcissism against Weinstein, Epstein and anyone else.
Anyone realize how many people get SAed that get no special treatment, attention or cash settlement bc they don’t seek out attention who did nothing to facilitate their SA? I don’t like the victim-mentality … that pays off if you let the right people exploit you message that this sends. But I suppose it’s a reflection of the times. Which is tragic.
This just shows you know nothing about human psycology. If you want to understand you can, we all need to learn more about humans, to be better to each other.
@@dbkg87 that’s your opinion. And I’m not a psychologist BTW bc it’s a crutch that is destroying society with excuses and victim mentality. In other words, everyone wants to image I their own delusion they are god or superior but act like victims when their bubble is burst.
I know plenty about psychology. Enough to know that he is exploiting the situation for profit and that manipulates situations to benefit him. Most psychologist don’t provide any insight to correct faulty thinking or behaviors, only medications. We know how that has turned out for society. People just want to be medicated. They don’t care about psychology, if your argument is that I don’t know anything about psychology. When you use CBT, you have to address the problem. This guy is manipulative, it’s just passive aggressive, for now.
@@dbkg87 I’m not a psychologist but I know a fair share of what you referred to as human psychology. There is another type of psychology that applies here? When a person seeks out what they have identified as their problem or their assaulted, they are not well. But if they are profiting by seeking out the same issues, that’s questionable, then they are exploiting themselves. When their behaviors cause problems for other people, then they are also exploiting other people. Why didn’t he file charges against his rapist? I think that’s a fair and valid question, even in relation to how he depicts Martha. So, then he could be even more of a threat to others, possible have some or a combo of the dark triad personality traits, even if it’s not outwardly evident bc he portrays himself as a victim. Even Ted Bundy initially portrayed himself as a victim.
You were right, that was a totally different take and I truly appreciated it
Such a good, non-ideological analysis of the show. Ben Shapiro is probably going crazy watching this video.
Who Killed Bambi?
The CIA and the Mossad.
Bambi ended either as roadkill, or eaten alive by a predator after a 3 to 6 year lifespan.
The numbers give about a 90% probability to that second option by the way.
Donny is not trying to find his identity through his sexuality, he knows he wants to be a comedian and he's sexually abused by a man wanting to believe that this man was going to help him achieve his dreams and that traumatizes him, which leads him to explores his sexuality in different ways, and the Donny is very honest about not knowing whether he was always attracted to men or it came as a result of the abuse, to reduce this to "he wants to find his identity through his sexuality" is ridiculous and obviously your inserting your politics here.
Also, the reason he couldn't be aroused by Teri is not because she's trans, it's because he was traumatized by the abuse... and you accuse the creator of not understanding his own show lmao.
That was great, Mr. Klavan.
Thank you!
Thank you for this refreshingly honest take on this.
It's the first balanced review I have watched, you had me riveted from start to finish.
Andrew⁉️ I honestly think this beneath you and a waste of My And everyone else's time.
It's part of the cultural zeitgeist. If it's bad, it needs to be addressed as such.
Great take
Of course I already heard this take because you already fuckin put it out on Friday.
Rerun
Very concise summary of this series.
Brilliant 👏 👏 👏 👏
Sounds like a shit movie that's a woke version of "Fatal Attraction" meets "Crying Game." WTF Klavan?
😂😂😂
It’s a limited series, not a movie. Try watching an episode or two, you may be surprised. It’s a new perspective & an important one to hear & consider.
That was indeed great Mr. Klavan even if you say so yourself.
They really call it a British Black Comedy?
Lol
That's literally what it is
@@Arcanine1995 i mean, it's funny, not gonna lie 😂
Black comedy is dark comedy, meaning making fun of deeply gruesome and painful, even tragic, things. Laughing through immense pain.
Hoping you didn’t think it has anything to do with race…? Because this show is exactly that, black or dark humor.
Sounds like a horror movie to me. Can't watch it. Can't even watch reviews of it, heard a bit on another channel, that's enough.
the trans subplot is being hidden, same with I saw the Tv glow
Glow wrestling. They must of really hid it. I don't remember it.
Why did klavan call the trans stalker a "she/her"? Between this and believing in the concept of same sex marriage, i wonder how he can call himself conservative?
The stalker is not trans. He is Donnie's love interest that is trans.
@@KimberlyLetsGo well maybe it's not the stalker but klavan specifically said that he'll refer to the trans as "she"
@@crobeastness Conservatism is black and white?
@@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek literally yes.
@@crobeastness sad world you live in.
Honestly every time I watch a good show the second series is full of man hate etc and it's boring.
Christian and asexual- still feel this "take" is missing the mark and oversimplified.
That is deep and awesome. Thanks.
I always hate the comments on videos like this because everybody here collectively shares two brain cells. You clearly did not watch the video or take anything of value from it (like the interesting point at 12:45), so don't leave random comments about how "No like show because trans bad". Goodness.
You lost us at I. Try better next time
As a snowflake and mental health professional, I was fully prepared to hate this video, but ended up really impressed by your knowledge, depth, and balance. Thank you.
Of course you're impressed. That's how we know it's a crap take.
If you're going to make an entire video on this, please take the time to learn how to pronounce his name correctly, (which is a very easy name). It distracts from the point you're trying to make, and it's just good journalism.
More woke BS CRAP
I've watched it. I'd say it's woke adjacent/woke critical. It's well acted and honestly written. Recently Piers Morgan managed to track down the real-life stalker and interviewed her. Also rumours are circulating as to who the male rapist is because in the show he's depicted as a well known TV British comedy showrunner.
Sometimes you have to give the devil it's due....
You can find your identity in having a family.
Sterility can never lead to identity.
Parenthood is not for everyone or even most people, as the horrible childhoods so many must endure...and often don't survive, attest.
@@daniellewillis2767 "So many" does not lead to "most people".
The solution is to set people up for success as parents, not sterilize "most people".
This seems boring and played out as hell. Rape bad, stalking bad, sexuality, human condition, blah, blah, blah. Why should I care?
Any male who does has been poisoned by estrogen in the environment.
Because he was trying to say "stalkers aren't all bad"?
Yeah, that doesn't make it any better, does it.
Your opinion on Jackson Pollock should not be stated as a fact
While I appreciate your review, I won't watch this because I am not defined as a spiritual person by my sexuality. I also don't demonize others but one side thinks the other is crazy and moves on while the other side thinks we should be exterminated for our beliefs. Big difference. I agree that the right can't pull the trigger to move us forward as a species but I also believe there will come a time when the left gives us no other choice and it will not end well for either side.
What, be clear
Klavan kept watching the whole series even after the trans and lgbt relationships and scenes as early as season 2😂😂😂😂
So good. Every Christian needs to see this.
Why? So they can be misinformed?
@@jamesvalvis1131 Jesus judged only those who judged others. Being a Pharisee has never lead anyone to Christ.
@@Lastwartipsandtricks Complete BS. Jesus judged people all the time. He said he came to bring a sword. He called Peter "satan" and told him to get behind him. He said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven. He said most people are on the wide path to hell and few take the narrow path. He busted heads in the temple. It goes on and on and on. Did you even bother reading the gospels? Or did you just take some heretic's word for it?
Teri's upset because Martha attacked her and pulled her hair out. Not because she's not sure of who she is. She's really the strongest person in the entire show.
No doubt she's a weirdo but so is he and he brought it upon himself and encouraged her to a certain extent. The best part of the series was the soundtrack. The rest was guff
Damn thos besserwisser really does not understand Kirkegård at all 😂😂😂
In mr. Klavan’s defense: He can’t do Kierkegaard justice in five minutes.
To common readers with a Christian bent - and others - I can recommend a free ebook, PROVOCATIONS:
Acclaims by Richard Mouw, Fuller Theological Seminary:
“Kierkegaard’s writings seem to get more “contemporary” every year. This well-selected collection of writings should be read and re-read by everyone who is attempting to minister to our present generation.”
I appreciate this breakdown!
😮