Hope you enjoy this slightly shorter review! Let me know how you feel about the length and whether you prefer these videos to be shorter (6-8 minutes) or longer (10+ minutes)!
Bought one on a whim at a pawn shop for $200 and it was probably the best find I've ever made. A few scratches but nearly untouched. The pawn shop had no idea what a steal that was.
The only channel I found a video about. I really like it because I have one. Great video, if I could I could bring more videos with it. Hugs here from Brazil 👏👏
I marched these in college. Definitely a great horn with nice projection but I agree quite fragile. You are correct about the valve stroke. We just purchased 8 of these for my high school band. After one season, thankfully, only one of these had some slight damage in the bow. Great vid.
My HS exclusively uses these horns. Since they force trombone players to march the baritone, there's about 40 or so in the inventory. None of them are dent free, the metal is VERY fragile.
Yep, we spent a LONG time taking dents out of every single one of the eight that rolled through the shop that summer. Can’t imagine servicing forty of them…
Love these horns, but I prefer the YEP-202M. Also, the valve guides on both horns tend to be fragile, and new horns may occasionally need lapping on the valve casings if the guide breaks/jumps out during play (It will eat into the brass). I've used a 4G, 51D, 52E2, and 48 and 51L and 5G to great effect on both horns. I found Wick mouthpieces didn't quite project as well dynamic wise. Of course, YMMV.
I confess myself incredibly surprised to hear that there is a single soul on this earth who prefers marching euphonium over baritone. I know I’m small and not particularly strong, but I can’t see the appeal of the unearthly front-heaviness and ergonomic nightmare just to play with a tone that gets lost even more easily out on the open field-things I already found “bad enough” on most marching baritones. The valve guides are definitely worrisome. If I recall correctly, we had one or two snap when these horns came into the shop. As far as your mouthpiece choices go, all great ones IMO except the 48. The 4G/5G are solid on anything, as are the 51 and 51D, and the 52E2 is my personal choice for (concert) euphonium. I guess my next question would be: how did you get that infernal 48 to speak? Yamaha’s 48S and 48L have not worked for me on a single low brass instrument I have dared plug them into. I just get stuffy response and a very thin tone.
Thanks for the reply! The 48L came with our line of new YBH-301Ms my school purchased when I was a freshman in high school. I had to play with that as I didn't have a large shank mouthpiece at the time. The resistance and tone was terrible (I actually had a really tough time slotting pitches above the staff with that mouthpiece for some reason as well), and I was very happy to move away from that mouthpiece as soon (and as far) as possible. As for the tone of the Euphonium - I found the tone slightly more mellow, but the overall increase in bore size allowed me to put more air in the horn without overblowing the bell and turning the instrument into an air horn (An unfortunate occurrence for a lot of marching brass). As for projection, I never really had any issues with projecting through the instrument, and found that only a few notes were stuffy, but deeper mouthpieces helped with that issue. I mainly used the 5G or similar mouthpieces whenever I did have to play on the 301 and that seemed to mix very well with the instrument for any times that I did play it. With the right mouthpiece, the 301 has a great tone! If It's of any interest, I played on either a 3G/4G sized mouthpiece or the Conn-Helleberg 5E for concert season on my euphonium at the time. Honestly speaking, my biggest gripe with the marching horns is the thumb saddle on the (1st) slide kickout. While I could easily use it, other members with smaller or weaker hands couldn't get it to move very far if at all. It would be more more work, but I think a spring loaded lever of some sort for the kickout may solve the ergo issues for horn carriage, but this is all conjecture until put into practice. I enjoyed the challenge of the horns weight, but can understand that its ergonomics are not for everyone. Half of my section were crazy enough to march the 202Ms with me, the rest marched the 301Ms (a fair split in my opinion). I'd also increase the bead on the 301's bell slightly so the sound wouldn't lose its center as easily once you get to F+ on dynamics. I would say to maybe increase the bore and bell slightly as well, but at that point, you may as well march the 202. Pivoting back to the 48: I'd HIGHLY recommend using the Bach 6 1/2 AL over the 48. For whatever reason, that mouthpiece [48] seems to have chaos follow it wherever it goes. Who knows, maybe I'll buy one and see if I can find an instrument that actually works for it someday. Either way, I look forward to more of your videos and discussions!
I hated these horns when my university marched them. The just felt off. We just recently got some Adams marching euphs to replace them and they just feel so much easier to play.
Seems like an “agree to disagree” situation. This is, to be honest, one of the only marching baritones I’ve played that hasn’t felt “off” the way you describe. Granted, I’ve yet to play anything made by Adams, but I can’t imagine liking any marching euphonium out there. It seems like they’re 150% the size AND weight of a marching baritone, just to gave a sound that’s less adept for playing out on the field…
I’m definitely a Yamaha guy through and through as well! What others sorts of brass do you play besides mellophone/baritone and what’s your main though?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass i thought ud never ask! :) ok so i main horn, and then do bass trombone for jazz [school bass got broken by trumpet player so i use my large bore tenor :(] and then i do mello for pep and marching (next year) and also euphonium, marching baritone, and soprano trombone for fun. i used to do trumpet but no longer have one :( oh and also im trying to teach my self alto sax! thanks again for asking sam! ur somewhat of an inspiration for me with ur skills on a whole range of brass its incredible!
@@RaileeLovesJazz Nice nice, I do some similar stuff myself. My main instrument is trumpet, which I do play in orchestra, but in wind ensemble I play horn (used to play euphonium but I'm happy with the switch), in pep band I usually play mello and occasionally trumpet, and I play a mix of lead and bass trombone in jazz. Good luck with saxophone though - can't say I ever had any long-term interest in or the follow-through necessary to learn a woodwind. But thank you so much for the kind words! Hope to see you stick around and keep in touch!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass trumpet is such a cool main! playing soprano trombone made me remember why i switched tho lol! reeds are indeed scary, and thanks for the good luck!
I've tried this horn, a King 1127S(maybe SP I don't remember, it was a large shank), a few different System Blue marching euphoniums, and a small shank bach. Although I much prefer how the Yamaha plays overall, the king and bach just feel better to hold, especially as far as the left hand. I'd compare this horn more to the SB as far as playing goes, although the yamaha has more edge to the sound. Unfortunately the SB is just heavy, clunky, awkward to hold, extremely bell-heavy or valve-heavy (depending on the model), and sometimes difficult to tune. Great video!
Thanks for your comment and for providing your insights! I do a lot better on the Yamaha than Kings ergonomically, being as small as I am. I like the tone of the King up close but definitely find the Yamaha to be the ideal choice for projecting as much as possible.
Some great playing Sam! The intonation adjust available on 1st but not 3rd slide confuses me - I had the same scenario on a wessex bass trumpet (or would you call it a tenor trumpet I guess), Like I'm happy to have it on the 1st slide, but surely you'd want it on 3rd more, or do you use 1st on a low C#, G and F# since they all use 1st valve anyway?
Thanks James! I’m actually a big proponent of 1st slide adjustment over 3rd, though the reason is a little messy. I play a lot of instruments where valve combinations 1, 12, 13, and 123 ALL tend sharp, although certain 1-only notes like written D on the fourth line tend flat, if anything. Meanwhile, combinations 3 and 23 are seldom sharp, and in fact 3 tends to rest slightly flat on most brass. So you’re right that combos 13 and 123 can be adjusted via the 1st slide anyway, and I find more practicality in using it versus the 3rd. Tubists will very frequently reach around the front of their instruments to extend and retract the 1st slide as they play, since that seems to be the slide that needs it most. Anyway, that was a little long-winded, but I hope it makes sense!
@SamuelPlaysBrass That makes perfect sense! I think it's one of those things I never properly thought about and ofc there's so many trumpets cornets and flugels with just 3rd slide aids but I suppose this could be more due to the slide being longer, easier to install a saddle + ability to extend a whole semitone. I'm going to try some sharp notes on my trumpet now but with 1st slide instead of 3rd see how I like it! Also I believe the reason 3 rests slightly flat (again at least on trumpets) is due to the fact that most players will always use 1and2 instead of 3 apart from the occasional odd trill, this has lead makers to make 3 longer so it'll be most in-tune with 2 down too, to minimise use of the slides when using 13 or 123. Think I'll stop there as I reckon we could both go on all day 😂
@@James_Dawes Haha, I’ll try not to let it drag on for too long but you’re absolutely right as to why 3 is flat on some horns. It’s more common on older horns, especially the ones with no 1st or 3rd shunts, in order to mitigate intonation on D and C# (though at the cost of poorer intonation on combo 23). Nowadays *in theory* most makers design their 3rd slides to be right in tune with a minor third below the fundamental but even still, I swear a lot of them are slightly flat, especially if you accidentally have the slide out at all.
Surprisingly little, if I'm totally honest. Sort of like how the bass trumpet and valve trombone are VERY similar instruments. I think flugabones tend to have a slightly smaller bore/bell, but they still can sound more or less as big and husky as a baritone.
Thanks for your feedback! I prefer doing the longer reviews, but if I’m completely honest, I was stalling in this video, not rushing. There is little to nothing to talk about with some of these marching brass. They’re cool horns that deserve time in the spotlight on my channel (especially as the marching brass reviews are VERY popular), but I can’t evaluate their tone, playability, and whatnot in nearly the same fashion or level of depth as most concert brass.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you for the explanation, not that one was needed, I agree 100% ... I hope you didn't take what I said as criticism that's not how I meant it.
Hope you enjoy this slightly shorter review! Let me know how you feel about the length and whether you prefer these videos to be shorter (6-8 minutes) or longer (10+ minutes)!
Bought one on a whim at a pawn shop for $200 and it was probably the best find I've ever made. A few scratches but nearly untouched. The pawn shop had no idea what a steal that was.
WOW! Congrats on the find. That is amazing.
A standard American shank tuba mouthpiece will somehow barely fit on it, and makes a weirdly bold and raspy sound perfect for ska and jam bands. 👍🏻
@@rsmith90 Yeah, it’s surprising how little difference in taper there is between large-shank trombone and US-shank tuba…
Its Hard to believe
jesus christ that thing is huge. Great sound!
If you think this thing is big, just wait for the review that’s going live tomorrow!
The only channel I found a video about.
I really like it because I have one.
Great video, if I could I could bring more videos with it.
Hugs here from Brazil 👏👏
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed.
Perfect length. Great review with some impressive playing edpecially on the Thunderer.
Thanks Michelle! I’ll keep the length in mind for future reviews and try to cut out excess rambling on the longer ones.
As always a interesting video Samuel!🤗👍👍
Thank you!
You're so welcome
I marched these in college. Definitely a great horn with nice projection but I agree quite fragile. You are correct about the valve stroke. We just purchased 8 of these for my high school band. After one season, thankfully, only one of these had some slight damage in the bow. Great vid.
You’ve got good kids if none of the horns came back completely mangled! Thanks for your comments and your kind words.
My HS exclusively uses these horns. Since they force trombone players to march the baritone, there's about 40 or so in the inventory. None of them are dent free, the metal is VERY fragile.
Yep, we spent a LONG time taking dents out of every single one of the eight that rolled through the shop that summer. Can’t imagine servicing forty of them…
Awesome playing and review!
Glad you liked it!
hey man nice review i might get one of these and congrats on the success
They are a great first baritone! Hope that works out for you, especially if you plan on going into drum corps.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass yeah baritone is my second instrument so this one seems solid
Love these horns, but I prefer the YEP-202M. Also, the valve guides on both horns tend to be fragile, and new horns may occasionally need lapping on the valve casings if the guide breaks/jumps out during play (It will eat into the brass). I've used a 4G, 51D, 52E2, and 48 and 51L and 5G to great effect on both horns. I found Wick mouthpieces didn't quite project as well dynamic wise. Of course, YMMV.
I confess myself incredibly surprised to hear that there is a single soul on this earth who prefers marching euphonium over baritone. I know I’m small and not particularly strong, but I can’t see the appeal of the unearthly front-heaviness and ergonomic nightmare just to play with a tone that gets lost even more easily out on the open field-things I already found “bad enough” on most marching baritones.
The valve guides are definitely worrisome. If I recall correctly, we had one or two snap when these horns came into the shop. As far as your mouthpiece choices go, all great ones IMO except the 48. The 4G/5G are solid on anything, as are the 51 and 51D, and the 52E2 is my personal choice for (concert) euphonium. I guess my next question would be: how did you get that infernal 48 to speak? Yamaha’s 48S and 48L have not worked for me on a single low brass instrument I have dared plug them into. I just get stuffy response and a very thin tone.
Thanks for the reply! The 48L came with our line of new YBH-301Ms my school purchased when I was a freshman in high school. I had to play with that as I didn't have a large shank mouthpiece at the time. The resistance and tone was terrible (I actually had a really tough time slotting pitches above the staff with that mouthpiece for some reason as well), and I was very happy to move away from that mouthpiece as soon (and as far) as possible.
As for the tone of the Euphonium - I found the tone slightly more mellow, but the overall increase in bore size allowed me to put more air in the horn without overblowing the bell and turning the instrument into an air horn (An unfortunate occurrence for a lot of marching brass). As for projection, I never really had any issues with projecting through the instrument, and found that only a few notes were stuffy, but deeper mouthpieces helped with that issue.
I mainly used the 5G or similar mouthpieces whenever I did have to play on the 301 and that seemed to mix very well with the instrument for any times that I did play it. With the right mouthpiece, the 301 has a great tone! If It's of any interest, I played on either a 3G/4G sized mouthpiece or the Conn-Helleberg 5E for concert season on my euphonium at the time.
Honestly speaking, my biggest gripe with the marching horns is the thumb saddle on the (1st) slide kickout. While I could easily use it, other members with smaller or weaker hands couldn't get it to move very far if at all. It would be more more work, but I think a spring loaded lever of some sort for the kickout may solve the ergo issues for horn carriage, but this is all conjecture until put into practice. I enjoyed the challenge of the horns weight, but can understand that its ergonomics are not for everyone. Half of my section were crazy enough to march the 202Ms with me, the rest marched the 301Ms (a fair split in my opinion). I'd also increase the bead on the 301's bell slightly so the sound wouldn't lose its center as easily once you get to F+ on dynamics. I would say to maybe increase the bore and bell slightly as well, but at that point, you may as well march the 202.
Pivoting back to the 48: I'd HIGHLY recommend using the Bach 6 1/2 AL over the 48. For whatever reason, that mouthpiece [48] seems to have chaos follow it wherever it goes. Who knows, maybe I'll buy one and see if I can find an instrument that actually works for it someday. Either way, I look forward to more of your videos and discussions!
I hated these horns when my university marched them. The just felt off. We just recently got some Adams marching euphs to replace them and they just feel so much easier to play.
Seems like an “agree to disagree” situation. This is, to be honest, one of the only marching baritones I’ve played that hasn’t felt “off” the way you describe. Granted, I’ve yet to play anything made by Adams, but I can’t imagine liking any marching euphonium out there. It seems like they’re 150% the size AND weight of a marching baritone, just to gave a sound that’s less adept for playing out on the field…
Nice Video
Really nice review sam! yamaha has to by my favorite brand! altho all the brass i have at my house im the worst at marching baritone :(
I’m definitely a Yamaha guy through and through as well! What others sorts of brass do you play besides mellophone/baritone and what’s your main though?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass i thought ud never ask! :) ok so i main horn, and then do bass trombone for jazz [school bass got broken by trumpet player so i use my large bore tenor :(] and then i do mello for pep and marching (next year) and also euphonium, marching baritone, and soprano trombone for fun. i used to do trumpet but no longer have one :( oh and also im trying to teach my self alto sax! thanks again for asking sam! ur somewhat of an inspiration for me with ur skills on a whole range of brass its incredible!
@@RaileeLovesJazz Nice nice, I do some similar stuff myself. My main instrument is trumpet, which I do play in orchestra, but in wind ensemble I play horn (used to play euphonium but I'm happy with the switch), in pep band I usually play mello and occasionally trumpet, and I play a mix of lead and bass trombone in jazz. Good luck with saxophone though - can't say I ever had any long-term interest in or the follow-through necessary to learn a woodwind. But thank you so much for the kind words! Hope to see you stick around and keep in touch!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass trumpet is such a cool main! playing soprano trombone made me remember why i switched tho lol! reeds are indeed scary, and thanks for the good luck!
I've tried this horn, a King 1127S(maybe SP I don't remember, it was a large shank), a few different System Blue marching euphoniums, and a small shank bach. Although I much prefer how the Yamaha plays overall, the king and bach just feel better to hold, especially as far as the left hand. I'd compare this horn more to the SB as far as playing goes, although the yamaha has more edge to the sound. Unfortunately the SB is just heavy, clunky, awkward to hold, extremely bell-heavy or valve-heavy (depending on the model), and sometimes difficult to tune. Great video!
Thanks for your comment and for providing your insights! I do a lot better on the Yamaha than Kings ergonomically, being as small as I am. I like the tone of the King up close but definitely find the Yamaha to be the ideal choice for projecting as much as possible.
Some great playing Sam! The intonation adjust available on 1st but not 3rd slide confuses me - I had the same scenario on a wessex bass trumpet (or would you call it a tenor trumpet I guess),
Like I'm happy to have it on the 1st slide, but surely you'd want it on 3rd more, or do you use 1st on a low C#, G and F# since they all use 1st valve anyway?
Thanks James! I’m actually a big proponent of 1st slide adjustment over 3rd, though the reason is a little messy.
I play a lot of instruments where valve combinations 1, 12, 13, and 123 ALL tend sharp, although certain 1-only notes like written D on the fourth line tend flat, if anything. Meanwhile, combinations 3 and 23 are seldom sharp, and in fact 3 tends to rest slightly flat on most brass. So you’re right that combos 13 and 123 can be adjusted via the 1st slide anyway, and I find more practicality in using it versus the 3rd. Tubists will very frequently reach around the front of their instruments to extend and retract the 1st slide as they play, since that seems to be the slide that needs it most.
Anyway, that was a little long-winded, but I hope it makes sense!
@SamuelPlaysBrass That makes perfect sense! I think it's one of those things I never properly thought about and ofc there's so many trumpets cornets and flugels with just 3rd slide aids but I suppose this could be more due to the slide being longer, easier to install a saddle + ability to extend a whole semitone. I'm going to try some sharp notes on my trumpet now but with 1st slide instead of 3rd see how I like it!
Also I believe the reason 3 rests slightly flat (again at least on trumpets) is due to the fact that most players will always use 1and2 instead of 3 apart from the occasional odd trill, this has lead makers to make 3 longer so it'll be most in-tune with 2 down too, to minimise use of the slides when using 13 or 123. Think I'll stop there as I reckon we could both go on all day 😂
@@James_Dawes Haha, I’ll try not to let it drag on for too long but you’re absolutely right as to why 3 is flat on some horns. It’s more common on older horns, especially the ones with no 1st or 3rd shunts, in order to mitigate intonation on D and C# (though at the cost of poorer intonation on combo 23). Nowadays *in theory* most makers design their 3rd slides to be right in tune with a minor third below the fundamental but even still, I swear a lot of them are slightly flat, especially if you accidentally have the slide out at all.
Marching Baritone is fun to play but it hurts my left thumb when I hold it up for too long
Yeah baritones and ergonomics aren’t usually exactly best friends. This is one of the better ones-things like the King Ultimate are even worse.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass I think the one I use is a king
@@RaichuEnjoy In that case, I send my condolences to your left hand. Those are rough.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass thanks, I only use it for one song where baritones are important but we only have one so it’s not too bad
What is the difference between Baritone and Flugabone?
Surprisingly little, if I'm totally honest. Sort of like how the bass trumpet and valve trombone are VERY similar instruments. I think flugabones tend to have a slightly smaller bore/bell, but they still can sound more or less as big and husky as a baritone.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you for yr response! You r cool
10+ this felt a little rushed, but enjoyed it non the less 👍
Thanks for your feedback! I prefer doing the longer reviews, but if I’m completely honest, I was stalling in this video, not rushing. There is little to nothing to talk about with some of these marching brass. They’re cool horns that deserve time in the spotlight on my channel (especially as the marching brass reviews are VERY popular), but I can’t evaluate their tone, playability, and whatnot in nearly the same fashion or level of depth as most concert brass.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you for the explanation, not that one was needed, I agree 100% ... I hope you didn't take what I said as criticism that's not how I meant it.
@@TCC336 You’re absolutely fine! Just making conversation. You made a point, so I figured I’d make a point too. Once again I appreciate your feedback!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass I wish we as viewers had the same heart to give as you as a creator.
@@TCC336 haha sorry, only I wield that kind of power here >:)