This series are very good and helpfull to understand differences. But I think it will be much more effective if there will be also pictures or films beside the very long time of talking.
Yeah...to find a proper footage is hard if you do not shoot for purpose, and this VS was particularly hard as we rarely see the U-shaped wings... But point taken ☺️
Enjoyed the presentation. Agree donut wings are superior due to improved ability to dump, agility, trim and drag. Feedback: a bit long winded and repetitive, needs a summary table of the pros and cons (picture is worth a thousand words)....
Thanks, Doug. Good idea with the bullet pointed comparison sumarry by the end. We are still experimenting with the format and for sure more practice will make us masters (or at least closer to masters...)
I dive with an oval-shaped wing. I haven't tried a horseshoe so I can't really compare. My biggest problem is in the way I dump gas -- I get horizontal and pull the cord upward along with the lower left corner of the wing, but I almost always end up letting water in -- to the point where by the end of the dive, my wing is half full of water or even more. No wonder I struggle with trim ...
hey there :)) To have some water in a wing is a normal case - I end up having water in the wing, too. The reason for it is somehow what you said - each time you pull that string and open the valve and go gas NOT escaping, water will enter instead. So, your reason for having water in is that you are most probably in the wrong position to release gas (so the gas is not accumulated around the OPV - the dump valve). so to effectively dump gas you need to get a bit head down, left side up so the OPV is actually the highest spot, you need to give a bit of time for the gas to travel around to that spot and then release it (and do not leave the valve open for too long, because after the gas is gone, water will enter :))). This can be the main reason, but as well if you are not having a lot of gas in the wing (because you are actually properly weighted) you will need to work a bit more precisely, meaning allowing the gas to accumulate around the OPV to release it and open the valve for shorter times. Sometimes it will depend a bit on the size of the wing compared to the tanks you are using as if you have too big a wing, this could as well course you to have difficulties in transferring the gas into the proper location to dump it, and so you will let water in instead...;))) so quite some reasons for it.
I have never dove a U shaped wing. I have seen ppl dive them. I love my donut/oval/bagel so much I am now in my second one .... exact same hollis model lol I did experiment a little bit with dual adjustable straps as opposed to a single strap and I absolutely love them. I enjoyed the video and wasn't one of the many that required other pics or videos to understand. Ty.
When I'm solo diving single tank the dounut has far more advantages. However when I dive doubles with extra gear I run a horse shoe double bladder for better stability and redundancy. I agree with this video you have to choose the right gear for the task.
I enjoy thise video very much, i love the focus on details and that everything is explained so well. But why is the strap on her watch switched around. ?
I started out diving a horseshoe shaped wing in Michigan. It worked fine for me there. But, when I moved to the east coast of Florida where you dive in strong currents. I felt like I had a kite on my back. I also believe the bladder is not as well protected as an oval wing in wrecks.
Then where do you get donut holes? L B S is abreaviation for pounds of weight Your computer/watch is on left wrist...do you put on right arm when you dive?
With a donut shape wing sometimes it’s possible to put your tanks on top of your wing which could damage your wing. I also don’t like it that I can feel my wing pressing at my back when it’s inflated at the surface.
These are all nice points. Thank you for that. AS for the O-shaped ones and getting them under your tanks - it is possible only if you are using tanks that are smaller than 12L or sS0 (so for example D7 which are shorter). There was for a while a smaller (30 lbs) evolve wing use for smaller doubles, but the need was too small to maintain the production (I am referring to Halcyon that I know and dive). There may be other wings that are specifically designed to fit D7s.
I feel there is more opportunity to damage the U shape wing than the oval. The oval rubs against the cylinders and is more exposed to damage by metal in wrecks as an example. I don't mind the pressure against my back. We are all physically different and so are the environments we dive in.
hey Warren, well, yeah... there are those there but TBH I have never used them, so would be hard for me to compare those as I would not be speaking from my own experience. But a fair point :)
@@GUEdivers As an ambassador for GUE, you have elaborated on various 20-minute videos, yet the only questions you ask: Could you elaborate? You are certainly entitled to your opinion. What do you mean? Not really a cave/wreck dive fan then eh? (Assumptions are what get divers killed). Dive Agencies worldwide have made several contributions for advancement in diver safety and education. PADI has two. The DSAT algorithm for recreational divers; the second is an anecdote: Humility-they realize that they don’t know everything and that there may be more than one right way to do something. Their ego doesn’t get in the way of learning, doing or teaching. Open mindedness-they never reject something just because it’s new or different, and they listen to other viewpoints. They don’t fear change and they’re not threatened by differing opinions. Analytical-they try to accurately and realistically weigh the merits of a technology or procedures for themselves and never accept something just because it’s new or because someone else thinks its better. They try to not let what they like, dislike or want to believe influence their conclusions. Competent-while they’re open to change and alternative ways to do things, their own methodologies are solid and they can demonstrate a rationale and realistic basis for each. They’re quietly confident about how they dive, and they don’t choose their methodologies based on ‘looking cool’ or what someone else might think or say. P.S. I hope your video presentations improve.
@@scubaclient355 Thank you for sharing your anecdote, we agree with a lot of what you've said, and actually employ pretty much all of this in our system of education. Naturally we stand by our values, which have meant that we have never had any diver deaths, a statistic we are humbly proud of. We always love to hear others opinions, which is why we invite people to comment and open discussions :) As for presentation, we would love to hear what you think could add to the quality. Look forward to hearing moe from you ;)
@@scubaclient355 I have been certified by PADI, NASDS, NAUI and YMCA. Notice, I did not list GUE. I have been diving for 45 years and seen most all the changes in the diving industry from one second stage and no BC on. I believe GUE has very sound reasons for their program. I suggest you look closely at why they do things the way they do. No, don't I use all their methods. But, I have adopted most of them. Try and keep an open mind and not buy into the politics between the agencies.
@@jeffconley6366 I've been associated with divers for that long too, and realize the amount of junk that is available today. GUE is on the right path but it also instills a club mentality that can alter your thinking. And their equipment is expensive if you're not going to be an expedition diver.
Has anyone bothered to look inside a donut wing? It's U-shaped. Halcyon should reposition the zip slider on the wing. The backplate damages it when using rental gear.
From my observation the Halcyon wing on a single tank configuration takes on the taco-effect. Show me the inside of a Halcyon wing? Maybe Halcyon should rebrand a BCD jacket and make several more vids telling Muppet divers the advantages of both.
Great discussion. More images and videos would be helpful.
The background music is horribly distracting though. Needs removed or much quieter.
We can certainly make the background music quieter for the next one!
@@GUEdivers thank you
This series are very good and helpfull to understand differences.
But I think it will be much more effective if there will be also pictures or films beside the very long time of talking.
Yeah...to find a proper footage is hard if you do not shoot for purpose, and this VS was particularly hard as we rarely see the U-shaped wings... But point taken ☺️
Many thanks for the great video. Indeed, O-shaped wing is the winner. Reliable, simple, good trim and streamline.
Enjoyed the presentation. Agree donut wings are superior due to improved ability to dump, agility, trim and drag. Feedback: a bit long winded and repetitive, needs a summary table of the pros and cons (picture is worth a thousand words)....
Thanks, Doug. Good idea with the bullet pointed comparison sumarry by the end. We are still experimenting with the format and for sure more practice will make us masters (or at least closer to masters...)
Widze Dorote i klikam w co sie da :) Jak zwykle swietna analiza oraz zarys historyczny. Dzieki.
I dive with an oval-shaped wing. I haven't tried a horseshoe so I can't really compare. My biggest problem is in the way I dump gas -- I get horizontal and pull the cord upward along with the lower left corner of the wing, but I almost always end up letting water in -- to the point where by the end of the dive, my wing is half full of water or even more. No wonder I struggle with trim ...
hey there :)) To have some water in a wing is a normal case - I end up having water in the wing, too. The reason for it is somehow what you said - each time you pull that string and open the valve and go gas NOT escaping, water will enter instead. So, your reason for having water in is that you are most probably in the wrong position to release gas (so the gas is not accumulated around the OPV - the dump valve). so to effectively dump gas you need to get a bit head down, left side up so the OPV is actually the highest spot, you need to give a bit of time for the gas to travel around to that spot and then release it (and do not leave the valve open for too long, because after the gas is gone, water will enter :))). This can be the main reason, but as well if you are not having a lot of gas in the wing (because you are actually properly weighted) you will need to work a bit more precisely, meaning allowing the gas to accumulate around the OPV to release it and open the valve for shorter times. Sometimes it will depend a bit on the size of the wing compared to the tanks you are using as if you have too big a wing, this could as well course you to have difficulties in transferring the gas into the proper location to dump it, and so you will let water in instead...;))) so quite some reasons for it.
Surface stability & floating point on surface. In my experience U-shape is better at this. Been using both. Still a fan of U-shaped wing😎🤘
plus bagel is yummier than doughnut :D
I have never dove a U shaped wing. I have seen ppl dive them. I love my donut/oval/bagel so much I am now in my second one .... exact same hollis model lol I did experiment a little bit with dual adjustable straps as opposed to a single strap and I absolutely love them. I enjoyed the video and wasn't one of the many that required other pics or videos to understand. Ty.
When I'm solo diving single tank the dounut has far more advantages. However when I dive doubles with extra gear I run a horse shoe double bladder for better stability and redundancy. I agree with this video you have to choose the right gear for the task.
I enjoy thise video very much, i love the focus on details and that everything is explained so well. But why is the strap on her watch switched around. ?
It looks like she just rolled out of bed after a rough nite 😂😂😂
First you're thinking about Dorota on a date, now it's thinking about her getting out of bed. She's already taken ;)
I started out diving a horseshoe shaped wing in Michigan. It worked fine for me there. But, when I moved to the east coast of Florida where you dive in strong currents. I felt like I had a kite on my back. I also believe the bladder is not as well protected as an oval wing in wrecks.
Pączek shaped wing
someone's hungry or craving pączki's? :P
Nothing better than a nice warm fresh pączek with róża 🥱
I dive a Mono Wing from OMS. The IQ is where I settled. The trim is outstanding.
Then where do you get donut holes?
L B S is abreaviation for pounds of weight
Your computer/watch is on left wrist...do you put on right arm when you dive?
With a donut shape wing sometimes it’s possible to put your tanks on top of your wing which could damage your wing.
I also don’t like it that I can feel my wing pressing at my back when it’s inflated at the surface.
These are all nice points. Thank you for that. AS for the O-shaped ones and getting them under your tanks - it is possible only if you are using tanks that are smaller than 12L or sS0 (so for example D7 which are shorter). There was for a while a smaller (30 lbs) evolve wing use for smaller doubles, but the need was too small to maintain the production (I am referring to Halcyon that I know and dive). There may be other wings that are specifically designed to fit D7s.
I feel there is more opportunity to damage the U shape wing than the oval. The oval rubs against the cylinders and is more exposed to damage by metal in wrecks as an example. I don't mind the pressure against my back. We are all physically different and so are the environments we dive in.
also known as the "taco effect"
Why not just add a dump valve on the other side of the horse shoe?
very nice movie; pity we finally did not dive Ines / Anita / sub together :)
They're call TIE Fighters, and no I will not calm down :-P
Great vid. I've never dived horse shoe and looks like I never will😆
Was hoping to see a blurb about asymmetric doughnut wings. Oh well.
hey Warren, well, yeah... there are those there but TBH I have never used them, so would be hard for me to compare those as I would not be speaking from my own experience. But a fair point :)
Super interesting the video... but, please, get the rid of the background music. Its really difficult to concentrate on the topic.
Good divers can use any configuration, and have mastered their buoyancy and trim. Your back pain has nothing to do with diving.
what do you mean?
@@GUEdivers As an ambassador for GUE, you have elaborated on various 20-minute videos, yet the only questions you ask: Could you elaborate? You are certainly entitled to your opinion. What do you mean? Not really a cave/wreck dive fan then eh? (Assumptions are what get divers killed). Dive Agencies worldwide have made several contributions for advancement in diver safety and education. PADI has two. The DSAT algorithm for recreational divers; the second is an anecdote: Humility-they realize that they don’t know everything and that there may be more than one right way to do something. Their ego doesn’t get in the way of learning, doing or teaching. Open mindedness-they never reject something just because it’s new or different, and they listen to other viewpoints. They don’t fear change and they’re not threatened by differing opinions. Analytical-they try to accurately and realistically weigh the merits of a technology or procedures for themselves and never accept something just because it’s new or because someone else thinks its better. They try to not let what they like, dislike or want to believe influence their conclusions. Competent-while they’re open to change and alternative ways to do things, their own methodologies are solid and they can demonstrate a rationale and realistic basis for each. They’re quietly confident about how they dive, and they don’t choose their methodologies based on ‘looking cool’ or what someone else might think or say.
P.S. I hope your video presentations improve.
@@scubaclient355 Thank you for sharing your anecdote, we agree with a lot of what you've said, and actually employ pretty much all of this in our system of education. Naturally we stand by our values, which have meant that we have never had any diver deaths, a statistic we are humbly proud of. We always love to hear others opinions, which is why we invite people to comment and open discussions :)
As for presentation, we would love to hear what you think could add to the quality. Look forward to hearing moe from you ;)
@@scubaclient355 I have been certified by PADI, NASDS, NAUI and YMCA. Notice, I did not list GUE. I have been diving for 45 years and seen most all the changes in the diving industry from one second stage and no BC on. I believe GUE has very sound reasons for their program. I suggest you look closely at why they do things the way they do. No, don't I use all their methods. But, I have adopted most of them.
Try and keep an open mind and not buy into the politics between the agencies.
@@jeffconley6366 I've been associated with divers for that long too, and realize the amount of junk that is available today. GUE is on the right path but it also instills a club mentality that can alter your thinking. And their equipment is expensive if you're not going to be an expedition diver.
Has anyone bothered to look inside a donut wing? It's U-shaped. Halcyon should reposition the zip slider on the wing. The backplate damages it when using rental gear.
Mines oval shaped.
@@jeffconley6366 My bladder is U-shaped because it's a Hollis.
+1 for a donut wing ...
From my observation the Halcyon wing on a single tank configuration takes on the taco-effect. Show me the inside of a Halcyon wing? Maybe Halcyon should rebrand a BCD jacket and make several more vids telling Muppet divers the advantages of both.