As someone who bumbles my way through game design and often thinks "Wow that worked/failed, I wonder why?" it's really nice to see your videos explain these things I've never taken the time I should to consider :) It's helping me a lot to think more about the design part of game dev, keep up the awesome work dude! :D
Hey thanks Timbo! Most of this is stuff I’ve just discovered by bumbling. I’m still bumbling. We bumble together. And in the end maybe cool stuff happens 😆
This feels like the important parts of an university lecture. You seem super knowledgeable on topics like these. I feel like I have lot to learn from people like you!
Fantastic insight! Very helpful as well. Currently at the very beginning of my game dev journey, setting up a very basic prototype and I know whats in my head isn't going to be the final design so I'm working on story elements first before I finally settle on art style. Love the way you've broken everything down man.
Hey thanks!! Yeah, sooo much is discovered along the way, it’s hard to plan it out in advance and have it work as expected. (Most especially if it’s your first time, like me!) Best of luck and keep trucking!!
@@LighthoofDryden thanks for the support and yeah I'm seeing that already and I'm literally on a break from the project now haha. Currently adding my basic attacks and already had to change a few things around. What amazes me the most is how many different approaches there are to things haha. Thanks for videos and encouraging and inspiring beginners such as myself :)
This was a really nice one. Less devlog and more essayist, which I love. I watch a lot of those too. Also when you were talking about Key Tones, my brain heard "Ketones" and I was like, "Huh, what does Keto have to do with game dev?"
Hahahah yes, it is 👏impossible 👏 to develop games with over 50g of carbs per day I kind of am preferring to lean more into the video essay format… makes my conceptual brain go brrrr
Having art experience prior to making the game will be a huge help!! 😅 Can't wait to see what you make when you get there! And I do hope it will appeal to the Celeste-oriented among us 😇
That was a great topic and you analyzed it so well! Now I need to revisit that area in Hollow Night to see if I did the exact same thing 🤣 The last place I ended up was the beehive area where I rage quit. Anyway, thanks for breaking down the important elements of art style in games - I agree that feasibility is #1!
My ENTIRE first play through I never even had an inkling the Hive was there. It wasn’t until years passed and I replayed that I stumbled upon it. So wild how deep that game is. So happy you liked the video!!
@@LighthoofDryden Omg, that’s cool actually! It didn’t occur to me that there might be optional areas, but that makes sense. Such an amazing game! Maybe I’ll just leave the bees. 😆 what’s your favorite area?
@kipipe oooh… that’s a tough call. I’m going to go with City Of Tears but Greenpath is probably a close second… and I love the vibes in Fog Canyon. Hbu??
@@LighthoofDryden It’s so hard to choose, right? ☺️ Those areas are amazingggg I think I have to say The Royal Waterways because I thought the Dung Defender was such a cutie and for some reason it felt very memorable going down there.
The background music in this video is so lovely to listen to. I was going to ask where you got it so I could use it myself, until I learned you made it yourself xD. You've got a real talent
Writing to you with alot of love as your videos taught me a lot. I don't think the art in your game is shipable. I'm sure there was a ton of effort put into it but I think something about the aesthetic you chose makes it look like a flash game. there is too little detail and the detail there is is inconsistent. You can probably spruce it up with effects and filters and things but I feel you need massive changes to make this look good visually. If this is just placeholder or temp art sure but i feel like you're describing it like a final product. I'd shop it around anonomasly and see what people say. Maybe I'm crazy but I believe unless you stylize this and polish it up quite a bit, then people will think your game is a first attempt and think it's worse than it actually is. Sorry if this was a bit harsh. Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks for caring enough to say so! A big part of my reason for making these videos was an excuse to do some careful study and make final decisions about artwork. Some of the stuff you see now is some of the very first assets I made, and it’s really inconsistent from experimenting over 2 years. I anticipate I’ll be working on this game at least another 2 😅 I definitely need to be more intentional with what I show and how I communicate about it on here tho, because not everyone has that context! Thanks for stickin around 💚
Fantastic video. How did you brainstorm on and ultimately decide what emotions you want your players to feel when playing your game? Did you tie it into the overall narrative of the game, or are these keywords you want to evoke through gameplay first, or both? Also, thought experiment (and me shamelessly asking for your help in brainstorming): If one of the emotions you wanted to convey is of the player being the underdog in their world and feeling triumphant with each new breakthrough they make, how would you convey that visually? One thought I had was playing with size, making sure the opposing forces loom over the player and the environments start out looking severe and bleak, but gradually there's less of a size disparity and the environments begin to look more manageable instead of like medieval torture chambers.
Those are fantastic questions, maybe that could even be the subject of a video. To answer succinctly, it’s half story and half gameplay for me. Melancholy and Joy are more tied to the story elements, and Thrill and Wonder are more about engaging with the mechanics (combat and exploration) (Second comment incoming haha)
Art wise I think you’d def be on the right track with what you described! The more your main character can look vulnerable (soft, small, round, childlike) vs the others (big, spiky, inhuman) the more the player will feel the need to “protecc the child” and the more it will seem like victories are in the face of incredible odds. You also might consider a further-away camera to make the character seem smaller, idk! Would you have your character physically grow as they got more powerful? That could be interesting!
I would love to see more of that in a video! I think it's something that really isn't spoken about enough. It's interesting because I'm making a creature battler where you are a lowly defender of your lord's dungeon and you have to defend it using creatures you've (at first) just been loaned, fighting against adventurers and their creatures. After each battle you win, you can choose to take one of your opponent's creatures and add it to your own team. After you win enough battles, you fight a boss to go up in rank, where you've given gradually more respect with the goal of eventually becoming the dungeon lord. You will see your creatures in battle (and potentially your character) and your character in the hub which will serve a Hades-esque purpose to flesh out characters (the other defenders who are the rank bosses), so there are some variables to play with in how I depict gained strength. Could be interesting to see your creatures grow in size and maybe gain adornments, and your character gain better clothes/armor/etc visually. I'm doing 2D skeletal animations so the art burden wouldn't be exponentially worse... but still. So much to consider. Thank you for letting me just word vomit about this in your comments section. XD
@@calicow First of all what a strong concept!! If I were doing 2D skeletal, I'd definitely take advantage of that flexibility to customize characters and creatures. That's *such* a fun feeling for the player, and definitely a great way to show progress. You're always welcome to word vomit in this comments section 😄And not just because it helps the video haha!
Hey, thank you for your videos! They are really inspirational. I am also looking forward to seeing where your game goes. I like some elements like the art style and execution of the character portraits and the forms of the light on powerups, or the details in the stones in the powerup scene. I also dont like some stuff, so take only what is helpful to you and dont let it discourage you! But at the same time the world looks somehow a little bit empty and lifeless/lacking atmosphere/boring to me and the artstyle does not really speak to me, as it looks like it lacks some professionalism/is created by an amateur (they remind me of childs drawing in a way, not your robot enemy though I really like that one). I cant quite put my finger on why though 🤔 Perhaps its because of the visual look not being unified in a lot of places. E.g. the flask in the top left is quite realistic in its reflections, with the main character and some surfaces being completely one colored, as if it was cell shaded. You sometimes use realistic surfaces, but sometimes really simplified ones. Also the line thickness is all over the place. I have the feeling that the visual elements in your game clash with each other instead of being part of a unified whole. Especially when comparing it to the Hollow Knight footage. The animations also need some work, they dont feel like natural movement yet (to me). It also has a static, stiff feeling to me, but its really hard to tell why :/ I am not an artist only a critical game enjoyer, perhaps you know an artist, that can give you professional feedback about this? This could help you fix this early because I think this could become a dealbreaker for your game being successful if other people feel like I do. Idea for the UI: The main colour of your character is green, (and perhaps white?) but you only use your accent colors for the UI. Perhaps using the main colors could help them look more like they belong to the character?
Heya, thanks for the feedback! I agree that it’s currently pretty uneven and in many places literally unfinished, since a lot of the art that’s there is some of the first game art I ever did. Also, over time I’ve been experimenting with different techniques to find what will work. It’s part of why I’m doing these videos, as an excuse to do some deep study and bring it all together, even if it means “learning in public” haha
As someone who starting actually making and publishing things by making VRChat worlds, I feel like I'm OK-ish at creating a somewhat realistic 3d environment relatively quickly. However, what is considered "realistic" and "good enough" in VR and VRChat def looks a bit dated in the modern gaming sphere. Im currently working on my first real, standalone game, a horror mystery game with papers please types of mechanics. Im struggeling finding a way to elevate my VR experience, while still wanting to move forward at something of an ok pace. I truly think the game has an interesting premise and gameloop. I don't want the style to be generic and old fashioned. The struggle is real..
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
As someone who bumbles my way through game design and often thinks "Wow that worked/failed, I wonder why?" it's really nice to see your videos explain these things I've never taken the time I should to consider :) It's helping me a lot to think more about the design part of game dev, keep up the awesome work dude! :D
Hey thanks Timbo! Most of this is stuff I’ve just discovered by bumbling. I’m still bumbling. We bumble together. And in the end maybe cool stuff happens 😆
“Oh god what have I done” loooool
It’s so eerie somehow, like activates my Uncanny Valley response 😂
This feels like the important parts of an university lecture. You seem super knowledgeable on topics like these. I feel like I have lot to learn from people like you!
Wow, thank you, that’s a very high compliment! If I can help other people by sharing stuff like this, that really makes me happy :)
Fantastic insight! Very helpful as well. Currently at the very beginning of my game dev journey, setting up a very basic prototype and I know whats in my head isn't going to be the final design so I'm working on story elements first before I finally settle on art style. Love the way you've broken everything down man.
Hey thanks!! Yeah, sooo much is discovered along the way, it’s hard to plan it out in advance and have it work as expected. (Most especially if it’s your first time, like me!)
Best of luck and keep trucking!!
@@LighthoofDryden thanks for the support and yeah I'm seeing that already and I'm literally on a break from the project now haha. Currently adding my basic attacks and already had to change a few things around. What amazes me the most is how many different approaches there are to things haha. Thanks for videos and encouraging and inspiring beginners such as myself :)
I really enjoyed this. Thank you! I will be more conscious about my art style in many formats from now on!
Same here! I have a lot of work to do to update my old assets now that I’ve done all this study 😵💫
This was a really nice one. Less devlog and more essayist, which I love. I watch a lot of those too.
Also when you were talking about Key Tones, my brain heard "Ketones" and I was like, "Huh, what does Keto have to do with game dev?"
Hahahah yes, it is 👏impossible 👏 to develop games with over 50g of carbs per day
I kind of am preferring to lean more into the video essay format… makes my conceptual brain go brrrr
Jeez your videos are so inspiring and well thought out, thank you for making this!
Thank *you* for making my day! Appreciate you watching :)
Just wonderful!
Hey thanks!! Glad you enjoyed it 😄
Totally @@LighthoofDryden
This inspired me to start a devlog, and have a "O god what have i done" section for all those silly f ups XD
AMAZING video! Super useful as a game artist that looks to make a public project someday! Can't wait to play Lighthoof too!
Having art experience prior to making the game will be a huge help!! 😅 Can't wait to see what you make when you get there!
And I do hope it will appeal to the Celeste-oriented among us 😇
Another banger video as always.
🫨🫨🫨 thank youu!!! That means a lot 🥲
That was a great topic and you analyzed it so well! Now I need to revisit that area in Hollow Night to see if I did the exact same thing 🤣 The last place I ended up was the beehive area where I rage quit.
Anyway, thanks for breaking down the important elements of art style in games - I agree that feasibility is #1!
My ENTIRE first play through I never even had an inkling the Hive was there. It wasn’t until years passed and I replayed that I stumbled upon it. So wild how deep that game is.
So happy you liked the video!!
@@LighthoofDryden Omg, that’s cool actually! It didn’t occur to me that there might be optional areas, but that makes sense. Such an amazing game! Maybe I’ll just leave the bees. 😆 what’s your favorite area?
@kipipe oooh… that’s a tough call. I’m going to go with City Of Tears but Greenpath is probably a close second… and I love the vibes in Fog Canyon.
Hbu??
@@LighthoofDryden It’s so hard to choose, right? ☺️ Those areas are amazingggg
I think I have to say The Royal Waterways because I thought the Dung Defender was such a cutie and for some reason it felt very memorable going down there.
@@kipipe the enemies in the Royal Waterways are HORRIBLE (in a great way). Solid choice
I love your presentations! great breakdown. I look forward to more!
Thank you Milo!! Appreciate you!
Very nice video! I really liked the editing and flow of it. It's a very nice walk-through of the topic as well, thanks :D
Hey thanks for saying so!! Glad you enjoyed it :)
The background music in this video is so lovely to listen to. I was going to ask where you got it so I could use it myself, until I learned you made it yourself xD. You've got a real talent
Happy to send it to you to use :) I appreciate that!!!
@LighthoofDryden wow I'd love that thank you! I'll give you whatever kind of crediting you'd like :)
I especially love the song at 1:40
@@goldfishmentality no problem at all! Hit me up on Instagram or discord or somethin :)
This guy's art style is beige.
ur Analyze video's Are very very well made :D Keep it up
Thank you, that’s very kind!
I got stuck in the mushroom room too. I thought I am the only one who is this much bad 😀
I knew I couldn't be the only one 😆
@@LighthoofDryden true
Dryden I am ready! Take my money 😂
Also the angry gamer joke 🤣
Thank you Steph!!
Writing to you with alot of love as your videos taught me a lot. I don't think the art in your game is shipable.
I'm sure there was a ton of effort put into it but I think something about the aesthetic you chose makes it look like a flash game. there is too little detail and the detail there is is inconsistent.
You can probably spruce it up with effects and filters and things but I feel you need massive changes to make this look good visually.
If this is just placeholder or temp art sure but i feel like you're describing it like a final product. I'd shop it around anonomasly and see what people say.
Maybe I'm crazy but I believe unless you stylize this and polish it up quite a bit, then people will think your game is a first attempt and think it's worse than it actually is.
Sorry if this was a bit harsh.
Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks for caring enough to say so!
A big part of my reason for making these videos was an excuse to do some careful study and make final decisions about artwork. Some of the stuff you see now is some of the very first assets I made, and it’s really inconsistent from experimenting over 2 years. I anticipate I’ll be working on this game at least another 2 😅
I definitely need to be more intentional with what I show and how I communicate about it on here tho, because not everyone has that context!
Thanks for stickin around 💚
4:58 same
dont worry about the lollipop mushrooms my friend experienced the same thing and he is way better than me at games
Glad I’m not the only one 😅🤣
Fantastic video. How did you brainstorm on and ultimately decide what emotions you want your players to feel when playing your game? Did you tie it into the overall narrative of the game, or are these keywords you want to evoke through gameplay first, or both?
Also, thought experiment (and me shamelessly asking for your help in brainstorming): If one of the emotions you wanted to convey is of the player being the underdog in their world and feeling triumphant with each new breakthrough they make, how would you convey that visually? One thought I had was playing with size, making sure the opposing forces loom over the player and the environments start out looking severe and bleak, but gradually there's less of a size disparity and the environments begin to look more manageable instead of like medieval torture chambers.
Those are fantastic questions, maybe that could even be the subject of a video.
To answer succinctly, it’s half story and half gameplay for me. Melancholy and Joy are more tied to the story elements, and Thrill and Wonder are more about engaging with the mechanics (combat and exploration)
(Second comment incoming haha)
Art wise I think you’d def be on the right track with what you described! The more your main character can look vulnerable (soft, small, round, childlike) vs the others (big, spiky, inhuman) the more the player will feel the need to “protecc the child” and the more it will seem like victories are in the face of incredible odds.
You also might consider a further-away camera to make the character seem smaller, idk!
Would you have your character physically grow as they got more powerful? That could be interesting!
I would love to see more of that in a video! I think it's something that really isn't spoken about enough.
It's interesting because I'm making a creature battler where you are a lowly defender of your lord's dungeon and you have to defend it using creatures you've (at first) just been loaned, fighting against adventurers and their creatures. After each battle you win, you can choose to take one of your opponent's creatures and add it to your own team. After you win enough battles, you fight a boss to go up in rank, where you've given gradually more respect with the goal of eventually becoming the dungeon lord.
You will see your creatures in battle (and potentially your character) and your character in the hub which will serve a Hades-esque purpose to flesh out characters (the other defenders who are the rank bosses), so there are some variables to play with in how I depict gained strength. Could be interesting to see your creatures grow in size and maybe gain adornments, and your character gain better clothes/armor/etc visually. I'm doing 2D skeletal animations so the art burden wouldn't be exponentially worse... but still. So much to consider.
Thank you for letting me just word vomit about this in your comments section. XD
@@calicow First of all what a strong concept!!
If I were doing 2D skeletal, I'd definitely take advantage of that flexibility to customize characters and creatures. That's *such* a fun feeling for the player, and definitely a great way to show progress.
You're always welcome to word vomit in this comments section 😄And not just because it helps the video haha!
Hey, thank you for your videos! They are really inspirational.
I am also looking forward to seeing where your game goes. I like some elements like the art style and execution of the character portraits and the forms of the light on powerups, or the details in the stones in the powerup scene.
I also dont like some stuff, so take only what is helpful to you and dont let it discourage you!
But at the same time the world looks somehow a little bit empty and lifeless/lacking atmosphere/boring to me and the artstyle does not really speak to me, as it looks like it lacks some professionalism/is created by an amateur (they remind me of childs drawing in a way, not your robot enemy though I really like that one). I cant quite put my finger on why though 🤔 Perhaps its because of the visual look not being unified in a lot of places. E.g. the flask in the top left is quite realistic in its reflections, with the main character and some surfaces being completely one colored, as if it was cell shaded. You sometimes use realistic surfaces, but sometimes really simplified ones. Also the line thickness is all over the place. I have the feeling that the visual elements in your game clash with each other instead of being part of a unified whole. Especially when comparing it to the Hollow Knight footage. The animations also need some work, they dont feel like natural movement yet (to me). It also has a static, stiff feeling to me, but its really hard to tell why :/
I am not an artist only a critical game enjoyer, perhaps you know an artist, that can give you professional feedback about this? This could help you fix this early because I think this could become a dealbreaker for your game being successful if other people feel like I do.
Idea for the UI: The main colour of your character is green, (and perhaps white?) but you only use your accent colors for the UI. Perhaps using the main colors could help them look more like they belong to the character?
Heya, thanks for the feedback! I agree that it’s currently pretty uneven and in many places literally unfinished, since a lot of the art that’s there is some of the first game art I ever did. Also, over time I’ve been experimenting with different techniques to find what will work. It’s part of why I’m doing these videos, as an excuse to do some deep study and bring it all together, even if it means “learning in public” haha
As someone who starting actually making and publishing things by making VRChat worlds, I feel like I'm OK-ish at creating a somewhat realistic 3d environment relatively quickly. However, what is considered "realistic" and "good enough" in VR and VRChat def looks a bit dated in the modern gaming sphere.
Im currently working on my first real, standalone game, a horror mystery game with papers please types of mechanics. Im struggeling finding a way to elevate my VR experience, while still wanting to move forward at something of an ok pace. I truly think the game has an interesting premise and gameloop. I don't want the style to be generic and old fashioned.
The struggle is real..
P R O M O S M 👇