"Superiority Conceit" in Buddhism
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Bhikkhu Anālayo, a monk and major scholar of early Buddhism, has recently come out with a book on superiority conceits in several Buddhist traditions. We'll consider the four cases he discusses and then look at four further considerations on the topic.
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Anālayo, Superiority Conceit in Buddhist Traditions (Wisdom, 2021) - amzn.to/2QJVNVs
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Absolutely fascinating discussion, thank you so much!
With all these complicated discussion, I do agree with you that at the end of the day, we should sit back and think of the teachings as a raft: it's for crossing over, not for holding on. In one of your earlier video, you talked about coming back to the practice, that there is no magic pill, or no easy answer to all these conflicts that we face in our life, and I think that we can take the same conflict-free approach to this "superiority conceit" that Bhikkhu Anālayo points out. I myself am just a beginner, so I don't really know all the huge topics that you're discussing, but this video helps me get a more accurate picture on contemporary Buddhism around the world, so thank you for your work.
I'm not an English native speaker, so sorry if there are any weird choice of words.
Your English is great banhat, and thanks for your comment! 🙏
Any path that embraces Love...Kindness...Compassio...and Joy...is a good Path. I often say... Choose a Path that feeds your SOUL. You can't go wrong.
Whenever I have thoughts like these I remind myself of how unique the Buddha’s path was. One has to ask themselves if the only path to enlightenment is to replicate the Buddha’s life - with decades of decadence, followed by years of asceticism, years of wondering. I don’t believe so. Our unique experiences call for a unique practices. He developed a practice through trial and error, just as we are taught to do ourselves. I think we need to be open to the concept that anyone who is able to dissolve greed, hatred, and ignorance is on a clear path to enlightenment, despite their school or even if that individual considers themselves a Buddhist or not.
Yes I think that's a good way to go Jake.
@Pac Iff Ic I don’t think we’re in disagreement. I acknowledge his concepts did not a raise in a vacuum. Just as you say, he was a product of his environment. You must agree though he tested those practices and beliefs of his time, discarding what didn’t work, keeping what did (I’m not really sure what else to call this other than trial and error, so if you have a better term, please).
Just this week I was reflecting on this topic after some heated debates with a friend who studies the Mahayana school while I'm more into Theravada, and this video fit like a glove. Thank you, Doug.
You're very welcome Eduardo, I do think this is a great place of practice for so many of us.
@@DougsDharma indeed, Doug. The more I study and practice, the more I see how practicing is essential. This is something I really liked about the video too: in the end, maybe the best way to know about so many of these controversial subjects is to see for ourselves. I love how Walpola Rahula puts it on What the Buddha Taught, that Buddhism is ehipassika: inviting everyone to come and see; open to all.
I'm glad I found a Plum village sangha close to me. They are truly about being open to everyone how they are in the moment. No lecturing you to be any kind if way amongst the people. Haven't found any dogmatic or pushy behaviour and That Nich Hanh actually used teachings from different streams of Buddhism in his teachings. Which I appreciate, since most of them have some wise and useful insights.
That’s great to hear Edine. It doesn’t surprise me with Thich Nhat Hanh, he’s a wonderful teacher.
Woah, I thought I was dreaming when I saw this video pop up in my feed. I read this book back in February and found it to be absolutely fascinating and insightful. I even added some of the examples that Anālayo used in his first chapter on androcentrism into my own ensemble whenever I get into discussion with others about gender equality within Buddhism. The topic pops up rather often. I always thought this would be the type of book that you would review on your channel and I'm more than elated to see I was right in that judgement.
Great, glad to hear it Div! Yes it's definitely worth a read.
Thank you for keeping your videos downloadable. I download then listen to them before I go to sleep.
Glad you like them Stan, you're very welcome!
Videos about books on this channel are so engaging for me. So many genres of content, but always so accessible, smart, and in your calm, relaxing style. Thank you, Doug!
You're very welcome Dosia, so glad you're enjoying them!
Great video, Doug. Thak you for all this awesome content 🙏
My pleasure Paulina! 🙏
Thanks for these videos Doug, really has taught me so much.
You're very welcome Patrick, glad to hear!
Thank you for this video Doug. This helps bring to light a lot of the issues that have been rising in the community.
Glad to help, Ender!
Fantastic video again Doug 🙏🏯
Thanks Keith! 🙏🙂
"This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.
This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by relying on conceit that conceit is to be abandoned." (AN 4.159)
Of course, there has to be a context to conceit. Was the Buddha conceited when he was the only teacher to have taught the doctrine of not-self? No, because that would be a contradiction in terms. And in the context of the Buddha's teaching, it is only probable and natural almost that EBT and the Nikayas are source materials that comes closest to the Dhamma as the Buddha taught it.
Hi, Doug! Thank you for your devoted, generous sharing with the community. I've found all your videos pleasurable and enlightening, and it's refreshing to engage with a scholar committed to scrupulous, nuanced learning. May you continue to inspire people to practise a life of kinder, wiser, calmer consciousness. Bless you!
Thanks Nick, very kind of you to say! 🙏🙂
Youre one cool dude Doug. Massive respect.
Thanks Tom, very kind of you!
Another great vid Doug! Really enjoyed this video.
To me at first glace, the discussion on "Superiority Conceit" is somehow similar to "Spiritual Materialism". I'm intrigued and will purchase the book by Bhikku Analayo to analyze it further. Cheers!
Yes that's a good point, they are closely related. We can think we're piling up the spiritual points by engaging in the "best" form of practice.
These are my favourite type of video subject. These debates within Buddhism really help to reveal and demystify the various strands and tendencies that do indeed exist, and which we should all be made aware of in order that we can make informed decisions about our own practice and how we want to relate to the larger, more institutionalised Buddhist factions. Also, this was perhaps the closest I've seen Doug get to Social media style "Drama" / "Response" videos :)
😄Yes I do think it's important to know this even if we haven't seen it ourselves yet. We may well see it eventually ...!
Cogent, persuasive presentation. Thank you.
My pleasure! 🙏
Fascinating and worthy of exploration!
Yes, I agree! 😊
Absolutely brilliant overview of this topic. So much to think about. I struggle how to understand different views of the path. Your teachings have provide great balance center for my journey down the path. Thank you
You're very welcome Tom, glad it was helpful to you!
Tom your balance center is working just fine ! If it weren't you would have fallen off the path, at least temporarily....RH, pgh pa
Thanks for the review on Bhikkhu Analayo's book Doug. I am familiar with the arguments with the various forms of conceits. My favorite chapter is the one dealing with Theravadin conceits... that was an eye opener. I appreciate his point by point breakdown of various differences/evolution between Early Buddhism and Theravada doctrine. I was a little disappointed that he focused exclusively on Stephen Batchelor. It felt like he had an axe to grind with him. I really enjoyed the book overall, thank you for your videos Doug, your scholarly approach doesn't hide your belief (?) that that gentleman known as the Buddha had amazing insight into the human condition and how to suffer less. Keep up the great work!
You're very welcome Fernando! Yes, I think Anālayo focused on Batchelor because he's far and away the most prominent secular Buddhist around. So I understood his approach, though of course it was limiting.
Loving this vid!
Glad to hear it Kristina, thanks for your comment! 🙏
Thanks Doug. Really great video. I personally engaged in several of the conceits, since starting with Zen in the late 1980's, and moving onto Theravada in the 90's. Your point that all forms of Buddhism have moved 'away' from the Buddha's purported original teachings, is well taken. I recall reading somewhere that the Buddha advised against ritualizing his teachings; my experience is that rituals and praxis are now an essential aspect, to the lay practitioners and monks that I have met, both Theravada and Mahayana. The Western academic conceit that I found in the Zen texts I read for the first 10 years was to avoid discussion of rebirth and karma. Living in Sri Lanka and Thailand, these were of great importance to the monks and lay people I spent time with, which initially surprised me. After 2500 years, cultural overlay gets pretty thick. The Abrahamic religions and Hinduism obviously also suffer from the same superiority conceits described by Analayo. Human nature.
Yes it is human nature. You're very welcome Paul and thanks for the comment.
Great vid🤙🏽✌🏽
Thanks Bernardo! 🙏
awesome video!
Thanks Tony!
Great discussion!
My pleasure!
Great discussion, wow!
Glad you found it worthwhile ppfuchs! 🙏
One of my problems as a beginner practitioner of primitive Buddhism is precisely that I discover myself convinced that this is the form of authentic practice. I find it difficult to give in intellectually in this matter. On the other hand, I also questioned myself because it is reasonable to think that this trend of Buddhism, although based on rigorous academic research, is a contemporary construction on a past that we do not have at hand. Perhaps I am forgetting that the map is not the territory? I am very grateful for this video and this review of Bhikkhu Analayo’s book. I will read it. Your videos have been important companions on my way through dharma. Thank you, Doug.
Wonderful realization, Politeista. While the contemporary scholarly understanding of early Buddhism *may* be completely accurate (or it may not), it still is important to release conceit. That, after all, is part of the Buddha's teaching.
Only the monastics talk about the superiority of their own lineage. It must come from a need to give credence to all the time and hard work they invested in their own particular schools. But I think the Buddha foresaw the evolution of his teachings and he wanted it to adopt to changing times and cultures. We could see how he made the Dharma to be accessible to as many people as possible particularly with regards to gender, class and race. I dare say that he also wanted it to be open to all kinds of beliefs! The Eightfold path is neutral towards gender, class, race and beliefs. It is equally open to Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc, as well as Atheists and all. Afterall, what is gender, class, race and beliefs but something that we carry with us to identify ourselves! It is just baggage that burdens us time and again.
A lot of religious teachings already encompass some of the Eightfold path. Followers of this religions can learn a lot more from Buddha's teachings and apply it to their own beliefs. This means that liberation(enlightenment) can happen regardless of what religion you belong to.
Yes I think so too, and indeed many Buddhists I've run into are also followers of other religions. Syncretism is more the norm than some may assume.
I always want to storm in here and claim the first comment but, Doug always has the comment first a month ago, excellent strategy Doug
Doug be using time travel in order to beat the onslaught of people commenting "first." I concur, excellent strategy.
Haha!
😄Well I do my best.
"Wiser, kinder, calmer." Diversity is nature's way.
Yes, it's good to have options.
Such an interesting look into Buddhism! Slightly off topic but I find all too there are too many memes with made up Buddha aspirational quotes and teachings that people bring into a discussion to argue a point and kind of modern and casual superirority conceit, and whilst contemporary and relatable, they simply aren't Buddhist in origin.
I find myself having to fact check often - but this is why i love your channel Doug because you give references and credit sources.
😄Yes I did a video awhile back on *real* Buddha quotes since there are so many fake ones around: ruclips.net/video/C6KSmGciUnI/видео.html . I also cite Bodhipaksa's great work in unearthing and rebutting "fake Buddha quotes".
Heehee, I love that thinking, "Yeah there can only be one Buddha around at a time", "What ? Why ?", "Well, you know, waking up is a very limited resource, we gotta import it from the moon..."
Yes, good point. I wonder why it originated.
@@DougsDharma I don't know if your question is rhetorical, but I would imagine that some of the schools that developed, carried with them an aura of prestige and perhaps even hubris, holding out their offered 'goal' of enlightenment as some kind of reward within a hierarchical clerical system.
Rewards of course 'increase in value' (to the ego) based on their scarcity. If "Enlightenment' or "Awakening" was presented as some kind of mystified state that few (or none) can reach, the value of 'teaching' this increases the social esteem and prestige (not to mention often the wealth and power) of the teachers.
@@paxnorth7304 Enlightenment was described as not uncommon in the early Suttas, at least among monastics. Being a Buddha though was a different matter.
Superior Conceit is a good book that I've recently read. A big part of what makes it good, as are most of Analayo's books, is he is a very structured writer. His writing method to me really helps to understand his point of view.
I believe one of Analayo's main objectives with this book is that one shouldn't be so sure of their belief, in regard to the fetter of conceit. Especially, since the fetter of conceit is a characteristic of an Arahant. And that misunderstanding or ignorance so easily deludes one's mind. Often, without the awareness of such delusion even being present.
Right, the arahant has given up such conceit.
Gracias.
¡De nada! 🙏
The most obvious to me is the conceit that monks, Buddhist religious scholars, or religious texts have special access to the truth. This can lead to clericalism, sacerdotalism, and religious fundamentalism.
Also, many traditional forms of Buddhism have alot of conceit in terms of patriarchal notions about women's roles. This is especially true in regards to Theravada and Vajrayana Buddhism, and less so of East Asian Buddhism. In most forms of Theravada Buddhism, women cannot even be ordained as nuns anymore, and in Vajrayana, traditionally women were only taught rudimentary practices.
Yes, as I say, the latter is a point that Anālayo makes in the book.
It's a very good point when one advocates for one's belief to be true, one may appear being conceited to others who don't agree. May be this is one of the reasons why the Buddha initially hesitated on teaching. Fortunately the Buddha had also stressed the importance of non-attachment. When one can receive the Buddha's teachings with an open mind, one can see the 'superiority' of the Buddha's wisdom is without any 'conceit'.
Right, but to be clear, this is a very psychologically difficult place to get into. It's all too easy to say one has no conceit while having plenty.
Good subject. Wherever humans gather, certain problems arise. Sometimes these shadows must be acknowledged . Or at least not denied. For example I started reading a book about 'the lives of all the 14 Dalai Lamas ' .The writer states in the introduction that 'writing about negative things about this subject is 'bad karma '. And indeed, right from the start does this writer describe Tibet as some former paradise , where no Dalai Lama did anything wrong, and everyone lived in utter bliss. It became so toot achingly sweet I stopped reading. One can't write history and just leave out all the negative things because that's 'bad karma'. This 'Disneyfication' of Tibetan Buddhism some people tend to do doesn't help anyone. It only creates unrealistic expectations in people who are interested in following that path.
Yes that does sometimes happen, and can lead to a lot of misconceptions. Thanks for pointing out the pitfalls! 🙏
Absolutely agree with you, Mr. Doug. The word 'conceit' itself is very ambigous in this context. I think it's better to use more suitable words, such as interpretation, thought, opinion, and so on. Because it's all about how both traditional and contempotary buddhist practitioners understand Dharma and apply it in their life according to their own level of comprehension.
I also think that--if it is considered as conceit--we need a new interpretation/thought/opinion which incorporates early texts, later reliable Mahayana texts, and scholarly researches into a more objective, scientific, and contextual approach to Buddhism. Secular Buddhism has many contributions in this regard for layman people. For monastics, a new independent Sangha like Ajahn Brahm founded is important to carry on such agenda--if mainstream Sangha still cannot do that.
Certainly there are many routes to take. We just have to be careful about getting the ego too involved while doing so. 🙂
It's an interesting topic and there is a dichotomy between faith and egoic learning....the ego will always try and compare and it is ironic to classify faith from ego.
Yes the ego does seem to push its way in a lot!
When Buddhism started spreading, local customs, and rituals also continued wedded to original Dhamma such as many locals do worship Buddha statue.
Yes that's right Chandraa. All belief systems change in this way, with their surrounding cultures.
Planning a retreat at a Theravada Hermitage in the near future. This concerns me, guess i'll find out when i get there. I think my heart is more with Mahayana, but as long as i do my part maybe they wont be on me so much. retreat first, was thinking about a possible lay residency there too. Time will tell.... RH, pgh pa
I hope your time there is beneficial!
Namo buddaya
Hello Dough, you are right that the Buddha considered his view to be superior to Jaina and other philosophical views. But he did not view it as superior out of conceit, but he demanded his followers to carefully scrutinise his utterances (Kalama Sutra, e. g. www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wheel008.html). This is similar as in science, where not all views are equally valid. Like regarding, after scrutinising, Kopernikus´ view of the cosmos as superior to Ptolemy´s, and the modern view as even superior, so after careful examination we can regard the Buddha´view as superior to Jana, theistic and other philosophical views. Careful examination of all views, also his own, and not superiority conceit, is, what the Buddha encourages us to do. Best wishes, Albert
Sure Albert. But this is difficult for most of us to achieve ... ! 😀
schism in theravadic tradition among sanga(not from secular point of view,i mean just saffron clad sangas) communities which is based on caste systems here in sri lanka has to be the 5th superiority conceit.
Ah yes there are definitely other forms of superiority conceit around ...! 😄
Hi Doug, considering the many Mahayana schools of thought do there exist some mahayana schools that accept the arhant as gaining true liberation from rebirth? Or do they all mock the arhant idea?
Well as with so many things, it depends. My understanding is that in general the Mahāyāna texts don't dispute that arahants gain liberation from rebirth, it's simply that they are understood to be doing so only for themselves, so it's a lesser goal than becoming a full Buddha. Some mock the ideal, others don't.
@@DougsDharma I understand. From your knowlege how many schools of Buddhism do you roughly think there are?
With the state of anxiety in the world, many people are becoming introspective. Metta consciousness is always with us, when we see and hear violence and predatory behavior, it forces us to dig deeper, otherwise we're dead.
Yes metta and karuna are great antidotes to conceit.
Hi Doug It’s Jorge from Chile. I would like to start a preliminary discussion.
¿Is conceit a good translation of the original word in Pali for this idea? (Māna).
Manā for me is a way of building and clinging to an idea of a substantial self, based on comparison. A self reference based on comparison that includes superior, inferior and equal views. All of them build a substantial self.
When I believe I’m worse than the others, I’m building an inferior sense of a substantial self, based on comparison. But the word “conceit” does not address that as māna.
What do you think Doug?
Well the English word “conceit” is usually used exclusively to think of oneself as superior. The same is true of the Pāli word “māna”, which literally means “pride, arrogance,” etc. So in the context of the Buddha dharma it’s taken on a broader meaning of something like “the comparing mind,” which includes superiority, inferiority, and even equivalence. Indeed, as you note, each of these is false since it’s based on the delusion of a substantial self.
🙏
🙏🙂
Which is original Buddha's teachings described in ?
Check out this video of mine on early Buddhism: ruclips.net/video/0dCG2fheAQs/видео.html
I do not remember which one of the videos in which you said that people are good at making irrational things rational, however in that video I got this...
You can try to explain, you can try to detail, but at the end of the day experience becomes the greatest teacher.
Noone cane say: "this is good or this is bad " for even in the early texts, the idea was to probably decipher these questions (including for the Buddha himself. He had to go through those things, the trials and turbulations in order to be able to come back and say... :"Look,I think...". So whether someone says or doesn't say, at the end of the day, they said or they didn't say, that's the reality.
Whether you take it or don't take it... that is the reality. You either deal with having taken it or deal with having not taken it.
The point is.. how to deal when having taking and how to deal when having not taken it.
Everything I have in my shop is the best... said the meat seller in the market... A passing monk hear it and becomes Enlighted... Are we been too concern about what is after all just an expression of the natural tendency to present ourselves in the best possible light? Of course each is, as the case said a meat seller, after you taste the meat you will know... All are good, all are bad... depend on your perspective and your expectations... is good not to hold to any illusions
Exactly so Emil, it depends upon where we are in our practice.
@@DougsDharma Deep Gassho!
Follow the practices and prove if it is really useful for us. No need to think too much, haha..
Exactly so Candra. If it's useful for us, the rest doesn't matter.
My pragmatic Buddhism= SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, CONCENTRATE ON YOUR BREATH, REPEAT 🧘♂️
Sadu sadu sadu sadu
🙏🙂
Some people have become extremly sensitive to any sort of conflicte as seen in todays layman world taking place today unfortunatly. 🤔🤷🏾♂️
How do you mean, Bobby?
The writers of Mahayana suttas were the students of the Buddha and their disciples, like Nagarjuna. History proved it. Some Theravadin lay meditators (not the lay practitioners coz lay practioners or householders don't disparage other Buddhism schools) particularly Vipassana meditators look down on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhists.
There is "looking down" on all sides, unfortunately.
@@DougsDharma true
I think it's important to take care in avoiding nihilistic views or over relativistic views that concludes that "depending on the view point, any opinion is valid". Conceit has many meanings, but what I understand was the one picked by Analayo is of "overly high self-esteem". That means, it's necessary to be mistaken to be conceited.
When the scientific method is properly followed, one can't be called conceited by claiming that it offers the best evidence available. One can be called conceited if they make unfounded claims while citing science. So there is indeed some frame of reference we can use to discuss what is right or what is misguided. The problem is to find and/or agree on this frame of reference.
I believe it's pointless to discuss if Buddhism is conceited against other religions because there's no agreed frame to base this discussion on. No religion has the obligation to take the burden of harmonizing other religions teaching's within it's own. They need to be free to disagree and criticize one another. Always, though, respecting each others followers and without incurring in hate speech. I believe we can agree that Gautama Buddha always respected these.
Now, within Buddhists is reasonable to assume that the Gautama Buddha's teachings are the best framework of reference we have. It's also reasonable to assume that the closer to the historical Buddha himself, the earlier the source, the closer to the original teaching. And the framework to understand what is "earlier" that Analayo proposes to use is the scientific method (the "scholars"). I can't see any reason to not take these as our best sources and frame of reference. It's always important to be open to debate and criticism. But disaprove proved and tested methods on the grounds of abstract fear that "anything is subject to be conceited" opens way to paralizing nihilism. If we can't agree on how to judge sources and hypothesis become vulnerable to the "anything goes, any idea is equally valid", which is very dangerous.
Yes, but it's a fine line between holding to our best epistemic sources and becoming conceited about it.
Sadhu....
🙏😊
Buddhist exeptionalism.
Yes that can also be a form of superiority conceit.
Subhadda was the last deciple of the Buddha. Buddha taught him to get rid of doubt.
"Subhadda, in this Dhamma and disciplne the Noble Eightfold Path is found, and in it are to be found ascetics of sotapanna,sakadagami,anagami, and arahants." [ Mahaparinibbana Sutta 5-27]
As far as my concerned, there is no school in Buddhism. Buddha taught us Four Noble Truth.
If one must have abandoned 'self-identity views' and "doubt', reachs to sotapanna wisdom.
The anagami wisdom will have abandoned 'sensual desire and ill will, while further reducing ignorance. [ DN !-156]
The arahant wisdom will have entirely abandoned conceit, ignorance and clinging on material and immaerial existence.
All in all, arahants overcome conceit because they completely perform the Noble Eightfold Path.
Thanks for that Win Thu!
From a less than academic observation, is it just me or is it when Buddhism became a central component to the political structure of a society that Mahayana Buddhism became the path. Much like todays Scientific Based version proliferating through Western politics. Derived from Tibetan engagement with the West and the Dalai Lama's own scientific interests since childhood. Sure countries with Theravada as a practice also have Buddhism as a political construct running through their ethical makeup, however the leaders themselves are not ordained monks for filling political roles. As did the Dalai Lama when he governed Tibet.
I somehow agree. It seems that Theravada practice are somehow more suitable to secular livelihood because in Theravada tradition a person can choose to be in monastic it as a lay followers and unlike Mahayana there is no rules that made it necessary to eat vegetarian even in the monastic itself. Theravada scripture put less emphasize on mystical event as compared to Mahayana. As a theravadin, a secular Buddhist may at least gain sotapati or stream entered without even being ordained into the monastery as long that the person are able to get rid of the first three of the ten fetters.
Well if you look at this video and Walpola Rahula's book in the notes you will see that politics has also played a central role in the Theravāda. ruclips.net/video/cCRNnHrqhwA/видео.html
@@DougsDharma yes no doubt. But as a secularist, it appears to me that Theravada Buddhism is the middle way between traditional Buddhism and secular practice. It's based my own experience. Just say.
@@DougsDharma Thanks Doug. The webs of change continue to enlighten us all. With regards your above mentioned critique, in New Zealand (a first world political policy test country) during lockdown our political catchphrase was "Be Mindful, Be Kind". Our Prime Minister has placed real emphasis on mental health and wellbeing throughout her tenure. As a result, the population (very culturally diverse) on the whole behaved well, sure there was the odd outlier but with a little forceful coercion, we collectively manage to eradicate the virus fairly effectively. What this says about the individual and the collective is no doubt under examination, but it does beg the question as to what scientific evidence based mindfulness is now that political parties are utilizing modes of individual pursuits of enlightenment as a means of mass governance. As you mentioned, we have to be careful and aware of when power takes over what is essentially a religious path.
Teruwan sarani
Well, which buddh's life, teachings are right? Is a Theravada? Or Other yanas?
Because, when Theravada is original Dhamma, then Theravada suppose to be considered for any analysis .
"Right" depends upon one's needs and interests. For some people, one teaching is "right". For others, another teaching is "right".
I was looking at going to live as a monk last year in Thailand and was pretty put off by the stringent requirements which including no women, trans or gay people and believe me I’m the least likely to get involved in identity politics but it kind of felt like going against everything I thought Buddhism was about. Not that I’m enlightened yet so who am I to judge haha
Interesting yes I've heard some similar stories, I would hope it depends upon the sangha and that there are some sanghas that are more open to natural human differences.
Or maybe there is something true about such kinds of ascetism which is why it is a requirement.
Personally I believe the 5 precepts for both the lay people and monastic community is from Early Buddhism.
Well yes, in a sense it probably predated Buddhism since there are very similar precepts in Jainism and (as I understand it) forms of Brahmanism as well.
One of my many, and perhaps, one of my worst sins is "Superiority conceit." Something a friend of mind said to me many years ago about all religions. He said, "Other religions mean well, however they don't quite get it". A more or less universal view of any path that is not ones own. This is a trap that I've spent a lot of time trying to avoid, with, I have to admit, limited success.
Yes, join the crowd. I think at least it's a gain that we see the problem and are at least beginning to work against its worst elements in us when we become aware of them.
@@DougsDharma My teacher helped me, and I think many others by quoting passages from other religions. I believe he's reasoning being, that a truth, is a truth, no matter who says it. Kind of like a big pot of soup. One can have a big pot of soup, and serve it many different coloured bowls.
Let go of the identify, don't try to become early Buddhism or secular. "Don't Cling or hold on to anything. Harmonize with actuality, with things as they are" 🙏
Yes at the end of the day that's the goal.
Nichiren Buddhists say that Nichiren Buddhism is the only true form of Buddhism. What's your opinion on that?
🙂I did an earlier video on "authentic Buddhism" that might shed some light ...
@@DougsDharma thank you I will check it out! :)
Who is Doug Smith, and how can I get a PhD from the Darma Institute?
As to the first, good question! As to the last, I wish!
Well, you are no doubt Dharma Doug, and I think you have a PhD from Darma Institute. So.....what am I missing??@@DougsDharma
Why not? @@DougsDharma
"You have to be a man to be enlightened." What the hell...?! Heresy! Everybody knows you have to be a cat to be enlightened! 😼😹🤪
Wonderful video, Doug! But whenever you meet Bikkhu Anālayo there's nothing else I ever would expect?!
😊🙏🏻
Yes, Bhante Anālayo is quite an inspiration with the work he's doing. 🙂
It would be cool to read some secular suttas though.. 🤔
Interesting point Tyler. I'd say most suttas are pretty secular.
Add to that the mentality of Vipassana practitioners that "if you don't meditate, you're not a Buddhist." And "Vipassana is the meditation that made the Buddha enlightened, not Chan, not Zen, not chanting, not esoteric practices."
@Camarada El The reality being most Buddhists do not meditate, at least in a formal Vipassana way.
@@aliciamontero7061 The Tathagata is the Buddha. He taught us the path to enlightenment. And meditation, vipassana that you boast of, is not the path. It us just one stem included in the path.
The Tatagatha taught the path: 1. Realization of suffering (The 4 Noble Truths) and 2. The Eightfold Path as the way to liberation. The Eightfold Path is not just meditation. It has 8 limbs. And meditation is just a part of it. There is also, which is also important, is sila and wisdom. You focus on mental discipline, yet you do not practice the precepts, in turn makes the mind filled with ego.
Btw, the Tathagata did not teach that vipassana as exclusively superior to anapasatti in jhana. The Tathagata did not teach vipassana as a technique, but as one of the 2 qualities of mind. Read the suttas, not just Sayadaw and Goenka. The suttas contain the Tathagata's voice, not Sayadaw or Goenka's voice. Besides, who is your teacher really? The Tathagatha or Sayadaw and Goenka.
@@camaradael2424 I am not aware I was boasting. I was just pointing to a fact. My personal practice includes several elements, some of them quite common for those Buddhists that do not practice meditation. I read about the Noble Eightfold Path about three decades ago. Still trying to practice it.
There are many different approaches to practice. Each of us has to find the one that fits best. Just so long as it tends towards the reduction of greed, hatred, and delusion.
@@DougsDharma true indeed, however overlooked by many. Many are focused on emulating the Buddha like a celebrity. One major reason why many look down on other traditions, with mindset that the Buddha used Vipassana so we do, and you don't so you're not truly Buddhist. It's becoming like Christianity.
Please write the Secular Sutra for us😂😂
You'll get me in trouble! 😄
Nah. I think Buddha's Own Teachings are Enough, Gabriel. He was not right about everything but left us with a HUGE BODY of 'UNIQUE' LEGENDARY Material that is Unparalleled in the History of Mankind. As a Die Hard Fan of the Ancient Greeks, I consider Buddha to be that ONE PERSON that the Ancient Greeks did NOT have 😂 Anyway, jokes aside, I believe that Secular Practitioners like us must not try to come up with a False Secular Interpretation of Early Buddhism. So, a Secular Sutra is not necessary. All we need to do is Extract the Already Existing Secular Stuff from Buddha's Own Teachings. That way, no one will end up distorting Buddha's Teachings. That's just my Opinion ...
@Gabriel Valeriolete that was good!! 😂😂😂
Could you go over the historical evidence for the Buddha's existence? I wonder how much myth and legend, and warped texts and writings that probably weren't even accurate to begin with (Pali Canon has a lot of mythological/hard to substantiate language and claims) has warped the real Buddhas life story/biography.
Well I talk about some of it in this video: ruclips.net/video/fKDyCszF7zE/видео.html , and there are resources as well in the description box below the video, particularly the paper by Sujato and Brahmali.
@@DougsDharma Should make a video about this regardless, LOL. Could bring in a lot of views for you.
Falling down the rabbit hole of conceit is conceit. lol!
So Secular Buddhist still is the best then?
For some people, yes. For others, no.
For someone who takes the opposite view of Secular Buddhism / Stephen Bachelor see Dzongsar Khyentse
Firstly I guess, if you’re white and connected to a colonial heritage, we gotta tread carefully to not extract what you like and neglect what seems “backward” (Doug is carful and skilful about this of course)
Personally, secular has a different meaning from what Bachelor is attempting to do (which is to “naturalise” Buddhism). To naturalise Buddhism you’d have to ensure that it fits into a mind as emergent-property of biological mechanism (so no continuity of mind, no karma associated). Since Buddhism really falls apart without those concepts, along with the original raison d’être for engaging with it, it comes down to if you have a faith/trust that these components may be beyond your current habitual conceptions.
For scholars who problematise naturalising Buddhism (e.g the suicide problem: if there’s no continuity post-death why even bother) see Jan Westerhoff who is a scholar of the Madhyamaka.
Enlightenment is starting to seem like a path to extinction, day by day.
YES THERAVADA IS PUREST BUDDH!ST STUD!ES❗❗❗
IF ANY0NE WANTS TO KN0W PUREST BUDDH!ST, Y0U CAN STUDIES FR0M H0LLY TIPITAKA PALI CANN0NS❗❗❗
🙏🙏🙏NammoBuddhaya❗❗❗
Zen, Tibetan they all just originate from India originally , it’s ridiculous to think there is any form of Tibetan Buddhism as if it originated there. That’s why the Tibetans are now refugees in exile in India because they fail to ack and pay homage to the Indian masters who gave them Buddhism in so many forms and traditions. It’s a karmic situation originating from their conceit
You just need to be born as human to gain enlighten but a boddhisatta need to be born as male to gain buddhahood. Otherwise, a person can only enlighten as an arahant. That's what I read from Theravada Buddhism.