Thank you for the time you take to investigate the differences between the various keyboards and preparing extremely informative videos like this. (I'll be sticking with my NS3 for now.)
Hey @davevaebutuoy thanks for stopping by and saying hello! Nice to hear from you again. I think that the decision to stick with the Stage 3, is a good one, especially if you don't plan on doing more with the synth or taking advantage of the new arp options. They are wonderful, but it's likely you won't be using those during a gig unless you do that kind of music, etc.
Great insight. I've been a gigging keyboard player for 30 years. My gig rig has evolved over the years from Kurzweil to Yamaha to right now I'm using a Roland Juniper-50 on top of a Hammond SK1-88. I love the Hammond, but it has issues, and the Roland is decent for some things but limited for others. Never owned, or even played a Nord, but I pulled the trigger on an impulse and ordered a Stage 4 yesterday. Now I'm "Nording-out" online trying to learn as much as I can while I wait for it to arrive. Kind of a surreal feeling to think that I'll soon be using a keyboard THIS capable. I've never had the ability to import custom samples so this is going to be a big plunge. I can't wait. For setlists and keyboard MIDI program changes I thought I'd mention I've been using Setlist Maker app running on an old iPad for years, which works pretty well for what I'm doing (classic rock cover band gigging).
@88keysand1beer Congrats on taking the plunge! Thanks too for sharing your background in your comment. The hardest part now is waiting for it to arrive, right? Hopefully, Setlist Maker can send out MSB and LSB numbers because that's what the Nord will need to change programs. For your information, I have a free course called "Master the Nord Sample Editor," where you can learn the ins and outs of making your own samples. I also have a master class in prerelease called "Master the Nord Stage 4", which features over 125 lessons and more than 25 hours of video training on nearly every aspect of the board if you want to dive deep. You can find both at www.MyKeysToMusic.com. In the meantime, I will do my best to answer questions for people here on my channel, as you can probably tell by reading any of the comments and responses. Congrats again on your decision, and welcome to the Nord community! 🎹🎼
@@MyKeysToMusicI'm pretty sure Setlist Maker will work, it does do MSB and LSB. In fact, you can plug MIDI out from keyboard and "record" the MIDI messages, edit them if needed, then play them back to the keyboards MIDI in. I'll check out the free course once I'm up and running! I'm sure I'll be reaching out when I have questions! Thanks again.
@@MyKeysToMusic Setlist Maker works like a champ with the NS4! I did run into an odd problem with the NS4 that I'm not sure is a bug or some undocumented feature. Demonstrated here: ruclips.net/video/G9SJTGF4KsM/видео.html
@@88keysand1beer So, the way the program level works is dependent on the max range allowed by all layers from all sound engines as a collective. In other words, if you had a single layer assigned and on within a given program and that same layer was set to play at 100% volume, then the range on the knob would extend to the full amount allowed. If however, that same layer was programmed to start at 1/2 volume, then the range of the knob would be lower since your volume is already set to start at only 1/2. So, that knob changes from program to program based on exactly where the level sliders are set. You may have to take a few minutes to get your head around this and do some experimentation. Just eyeball all the levels when you first arrive at a program. If any one of them is set lower than 100 %, then the volume adjuster is going to be reduced to compensate. The same works in reverse. If you come to a program where NONE of the layers are set to max volume, then the program adjuster will allow you to go up a bit as well. While you do all this, keep in mind that these sliders appear to be based on a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one. In simple terms, this means the change or effect of moving the slider increases exponentially as you move it toward one end. This is common in audio equipment where finer control is preferred at one end of the scale. In the case of volume controls, for example, a logarithmic taper is often used because the human ear perceives loudness logarithmically. This means small changes in volume at lower settings (the top of the slider) are more noticeable than the same change at higher settings (the bottom of the slider). The design intent is to give you finer control over the volume where you need it most. Said another way, you'll notice the numbers increment in bigger jumps at the very bottom of the slider and much smaller jumps at the very top of the slider. This concept can play tricks on you when you are calibrating your program levels and adjusting knobs/sliders. * Also note that once you adjust your volumes, you'll need to Store the program (of course). Also ensure you are on the latest OS as a best practice. Pro Tip. If you want to see the exact amount of -dB assigned to a given layer, push and hold the "monitor" button as you move the volume slider. This will tell you the exact amount it is set to (which is impossible to do without the monitor button). Find the lowest slider of all the ones programmed, then take that number and deduct it from 100. That should then be the max number your program knob will let you adjust to on the lower end of the spectrum. You can do the same thing in reverse for the upper end so long as none of the sliders are already set to 100%. Hopefully, all this makes sense... I'm going to add this detailed note for that lesson in my course because I haven't explained it in this much detail until now. So thanks!!
Thank you for your time to make this VDO, In my point of view who is NS3 owner for 3 years and still love it, Maybe I’ll wait for NS5 or 6 😊😊 Hope you still make a good Nord user VDO till then 🤟🤟 Happy and Healthy Marc
Hello @eflat70 Thanks for your comment and compliment. Appreciate the support! I'm working on my master online course for the NS4 as the priority, but I will have more content coming out on RUclips too of course. As you may have already seen, my latest videos feature the NS4 although I try to be sensitive to the fact that there are many still using the NS3 and will be for years. Cheers! 🙏🏻 🎹
Another great video from you Mark. I've currently got an Electro 6d 73 and I'm thinking of upgrading to a Stage 4. The loss of Song Mode would never be an issue for me because, as you explained, I've always used the Program Groups 1-4, etc to save my song parts. It would, however, have been useful to be able to transfer these programs to the Stage 4 instead of having to re-create them again. Once again, congratulations on a very informative video.
@alastairprydderch2819 Hello Alastair, the partial bright spot is that as you go to recreate all you programs for the Nord Stage 4, it forces you to learn it which, in the long run, will pay off in spades. FYI, I'm making good progress on the "Master the Nord Stage 4" course - stay tuned for the release of that hopefully before the end of 2023.
Good advice! I’m sure the the sound-editor will be updated to be able to convert samples and as you say we nord users are used to not being able to transfer patches between models. That said I’m extremely exited about all the new features, a lot of really good stuff that I can see myself using on gigs. Simple but powerful stuff like note priority high/low (now I can play a chord and have a lead that’s playing the top note), tap tempo on pedal not to mention the new three part synth engine!
Hey there @zoulistic thanks for your comment. I agree! I'm finding that the combination of the Wave 2 synth engine coupled with the EQ of the NS3 brings the synth to another level. The Stage 4 reverbs are really amazing too. Also, the amount of polyphony provided plays well against the 3 engines. (I have yet to really run out of polyphony under normal usage).
This definitely helped me make an informed decision, for now , song mode is an integral part of my live performances, I’m going to stick w. My stage 3. This video alone gave me the info I reallllllly needed to make my decision.. thanks
Thanks for this video Marc. As a regularly gigging Nord Stage 3 user, I rely heavily on Song Mode and Song parts to switch seamlessly between parts and songs. All of your insights are spot on.
Thank you @eric311000 I find that the more entrenched a professional is with their NS3, the more complex the decision becomes to upgrade to the NS4 or not. And for some features (like lack of Song mode), it's not an upgrade but a slight downgrade. 😪
Great video Marc. I would love the Stage 4 but it is way too expensive, and the fact that I would have to redo all these programs is the definitely the deal breaker for me. Keep the great videos coming!
Hi Mike! I hear what you are saying (about the expense). What I’ve learned since the release of the Stage 4, is how great it is, while at the same time how well the Stage 3 holds up after all these years!
So so helpful. I have spent a lot of time making and refining patches on my NS3. I made my own sample instruments in Nord Sample Editor. Also use Song Mode all the time. Won’t my sample instruments upload to NS4 from NSE?
I said goodbye to my stage3 Compact TODAY. I'm in it to win it so to speak with my Stage-4 Thanks Marc! I want to say thank you for all of the support you have given the Nord community! You make the Nord a better instrument! I'm looking forward to leaning the Stage 4 to a higher level than the stage 3!
@johngaudette4664 Thanks for your kind words! CONGRATS on your upgrade! I think you have placed a nice challenge in front of you (to learn the NS4 more than you did the NS3). It will pay off in spades. Wait till you see what you can do with the advanced arpeggiator options - it gets crazy. 👍🏻
one thought about the samples I've created; they were initially a wav file that had to be converted for Nord. I certainly didn't destroy othe wav files and I have the wav files so, likely imports in that format and changes for S4 within their sound manager or sample editor I should say.
Marc I truly appreciate the details you provide. I’m in a different boat, I never owned a Nord. I have extensive experience going back the 80’s with: 1, Live bands - Hardware synths, Rhodes and organ 2. Live bands - Midi master keyboard (KX-88) controlling hardware synths 3. Home studio - Multiple workstation keyboards 4. Current - Home studio - great master keyboard (RD-2000), Logic Pro, plenty of software synths and a recently added Hydrasynth Deluxe Despite having the ability to create most any sound, I miss the immediacy of hardware and the hassle of menu diving when I have limited time to actually play in my home studio. While I know you cannot answer what’s best for me, but what is your opinion of using a Stage 4 as master controller/sound engine tied to my extensive collection of software synths and Logic?
Hello @trstack - thanks for your question! Although the Nord Stage 4 is NOT a controller keyboard in the traditional sense, it does have "some" controller-like functionality. The big thing to realize about the NS4 is the fact that for every unique MIDI channel you want to use for the purposes of controlling your collection of software synths, you lose the ability to use the internal sounds for that channel/layer on the Stage 4. In other words, if you already have a controller whereby you go out of your way to use it as an _advanced_ controller (you have multiple splits, each sending out to your software synths on a different MIDI channel), then you may not be willing to make that sacrifice. For example, if you want to control a VST Trumpet out of MIDI channel 4, and then layer that with a cool VST string pad on channel 5 and then split channel 6 so that a flute layers only on the upper half the keyboard, you can do all that, but then you will left with ZERO Nord Stage 4 synth engines available to you for internal sounds. They will have all been used to accommodate your software sounds. If, on the other hand, when you control your software synths, you tend to do it from a single MIDI channel and you use the software to decide which engines are on or off and how they are split and layered, then the NS4 will probably be exactly what you need, and it can be used for this purpose. This means you would sacrifice one NS4 layer for ALL the extern work, and that leaves two of the internal synth layers available for you on the NS4 directly. *Here are some general things to keep in mind when using the Nord Stage 4 as a MIDI controller:* 1) For every independent MIDI channel you want to control by way of the "extern" functionality, you sacrifice one of the Stage 4 synth layers (and you get 3 of these total). You can't have both the NS4 sound while also controlling your external software sounds; it's an either/or situation (unfortunately). 2) Although the Nord keyboard does send MIDI out for many of the knobs you turn, they are NOT assignable. In other words, the CC information is there, but you are stuck with what CC number a given controller sends on. A perfect example of what I'm talking about is the organ drawbars. Yes, they send CC signals out, but if your software doesn't expect the pre-baked CC#s Nord has assigned to them, you are out of luck. Compare this to a "true" controller keyboard, and you'll quickly see that a true controller allows you to move a drawbar AND assign that drawbar to a given CC #. Not only that, the controller keyboard lets you set which direction the drawbar is anchored at zero, allowing you to reverse your drawbars! This is night-and-day functionality when you talk about going toe to toe with a real controller. Thus, that's why I state above that the NS4 is not a true controller keyboard, but rather it has some controller-like features - but let's not call it a controller. 3)The sustain pedal, pitch stick, and mod wheel all send MIDI out, and there is some flexibility on turning them on and off. But here again, the CC#s are pre-baked with no way to assign them to a preferred CC#. This is something that most purpose-built controllers do out of the box. 4) The NS4 does have the ability to pick up two given CC#s for you to control (and assign) using onboard knobs. You also have the choice to send a program change using a third knob. Now, for some people, this may be all they need, and perhaps it's already more than enough. For others, they see this as a huge limitation, especially if they are accustomed to being able to assign ANY knob/button to ANY CC# when they use a traditional controller. 5) The NS4 does allow you to send a program change upon load. This is a nice feature used by a LOT of people. It, however, is a feature limited to a single program change per MIDI channel (and here again, if you want to control multiple channels, you'll need to designate a synth layer for each which means you don't get to use that assigned layer as a sound source). 6) There is a bright spot for the NS4 whereby it's very easy to simply take a given synth layer out of extern mode with a click of a button. Doing this immediately allows you to use the internal sounds of the NS4. So, if you don't mind turning things on and off mid-performance (which most people don't mind at all because that's the very nature of Nord keyboards in general), then perhaps this is one small way you can have your cake and eat it too. For example, let's say you use all 3 NS4 synth layers to produce a given part of a song. But then you want to use that amazing solo Trumpet sound from SWAM Instruments just for the piccolo trumpet solo part on Penny Lane by the Beatles. You can simply push your Extern button on Synth Layer A, and boom, there is your trumpet VST ready to go. Once the solo is done, you turn off the extern option again and you're right back to using the built-in sounds on the NS4. That's probably a bad song to use as an example because it probably doesn't actually require all 3 synth layers in the first place. Then again, if you are playing the sample to make the fire-engine clank "bell" sounds from that song and you are also asked to play key bass, etc., then perhaps you are using the synth more than you'd think on a song like that and having the ability to turn on and off the extern option at-will is a benefit we want to highlight. I'm sure there are dozens more things I could say about all this, but this is already a blog article in the making! Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you decide if you have the chance... Feel free to ask more questions, and I'll get to them when possible. Good luck! 👍🏻 🎹 💻
@@MyKeysToMusic Thank you for a comprehensive response that helps me better understand the "structure" of the Stage 4. I currently use my RD-2000 for acoustic piano internal sounds only on channel 1, channels 2-8 are mapped to soft synths on separate MIDI channels that allows me to change either the patch or source via Logic or MainStage. While I have have plenty of options/resources, again I miss the immediacy of "just playing". I'll take your Stage 4 course when it's ready to help guide my decision and $6k purchase.
@@trstack I get what you are saying here. "Just Playing" is not to be underestimated! Making good progress on the course. I have the entire synth section done, along with some other important areas. Still on track for release in early summer.
I recently upgraded to a Stage 4 from a Stage 2 EX. At this time I’m in the progress of recreating all the programs. It’s a hassle, but it’s worth it because some songs sound waaayy better. I miss the “Preset II” function in the Organ Section, though
Thanks for your comment @martinjmusic I have recently discovered the sample Nylon Guitar 2, which is newly improved and available for the Nord Stage 4. Wow, what a difference! The new stereo samples within the Nord sample library do sound way better.
As always, thank you for your tutorials. The manual process of programming from scratch has been true from the NS1 to the NS2 to the NS3 and now the NS4. Synth sound design takes time - and each iteration has its own synth. Happily, the organ and piano sections are relatively simple to recreate. I’m curious as to why the piano memory has stayed the same as the NS3 - and hope loading sounds is faster on the NS4 than on previous models.
Hello @jpag57 and thanks for your observations here. Completely agree. As far as adding more memory, it may have something to do with the operating system's limitation with how much total memory it can access versus a financial decision? For example, they happily added more memory in the synth section and also increased the polyphony. Yet, they didn't increase the memory in the piano section, perhaps because it's not logistically feasible to do so? I really don't know for sure, but that's a guess as to why they didn't expand it. My dream would be this: 4 GB Piano Memory 2 GB Synth Memory 1000 Program locations Song Mode 4 Synth Layers 2 Dedicated External Layers "A man can dream..." 🤔 In the meantime, we make use of what they provided and find workarounds where possible.
For me this is a good thing, the needing to do it again part, i only play for myself atm. Im just upgrading for the shiny bits, had a piano 5, got the stage 3 and now i want the 4, i can barely play but its really fun to try and learn and fool around for fun on a stage, my livingrooms needs a stage 4, getting one later this summer
@nhaze8173 I don't mind doing it again either. It helps solidify the skills. FYI, I should have the course done by this summer too, so if you're looking for online education for your Nord keyboard (Stage 4), you know where to find me.
It's been 7 months since this video was released and still there are many sounds in the Sample Library 3.0 that aren't compatible with the Piano 5 nor Stage 4.
@borispradel1037 You are correct. In fact, they just released a major OS update/fix so perhaps that's where their focus has been? They also recently released a "soft upright" piano - which feels like we are more than covered in this area since we have the "felt upright" already. To me, that time and energy would have perhaps been better spent on beefing up the Sample Library 4.0. It's unclear at this point what plans (if any) they have for additional samples in the library 4.0. Of course, I don't make the decisions over there, nor do we have visibility into the projects they have going on. Maybe they have a separate team on samples? Hard to say. But the fact remains that it's been a while and not much has been done to add to the Sample 4.0 library as far as I can tell. Thanks for your observation and highlight in this area.
Great helpful video. I Finally bought a stage4 so i am starting from scratch anyway (never had a 3) What would you suggest for future ; write down all the settings you use on paper for a future model cause it seems nord are never going to entertain forwards or backwards compatibility.
@wilkopiano CONGRATS on your NS4 decision, and welcome to the club of dedicated and passionate Nord keyboardists and musicians. You bring up a great question here. Ideally, we want to ask, beg, support, and wait for the generous people that have built the "Nord File Viewer" to do this for the NS4 board as well. Maybe by the time you are ready to upgrade, they will have built one. If not them, this is something I could potentially rally around. The Nord File viewer s best described by looking at my video for it here: ruclips.net/video/1vgHlBPLeH0/видео.html
@wilkopiano I forgot to mention, be on the lookout for my upcoming master class course for the Nord Stage 4 keyboard available on my main website: www.MyKeysToMusic.com In the meantime, if you are new to synthesis and beginning at ground zero, I have a free course called "Synthesizer Fundamentals" also available on my website to get you started with your training wheels. After that, you can check out my free course on how to "Master the Nord Sample Editor," which will guide you on everything you need to know about how to create your own samples for any Nord keyboard that supports them. There I share my favorite techniques if you are also interested in the world of sampling which has also just opened up for you now that you are starting your journey with the Nord Stage 4. Hey, don't forget to tell your partner and employer that "the late nights are about to begin!!" as you lose yourself in your board while exploring... 😎
Hi Mark, one question which is driving me crazy 😂 I’ve just bought the new NS4 and I’m trying to recreate some programs previously stored in my ns3. now, in the Synth section I’m trying to recreate the dual OSC with the "Xfade" (in the ns3 that was the name of rameter of the 2nd OSC) in the 2 OSC (set to 8ve - Multi Saw 8ve). How the hell can I adjust the xfade between the 2 OSC? I’m getting crazy 😂 thanks in advance
Hello @MrAlessandrobizzarri Unfortunately, there are not a lot of "mix" configurations on the NS4 (or the Wave 2) for that matter. For most things, you'll need to incorporate another layer and do your mix that way (as much as it pains me to have to report that to you). However, with the latest operating system for the NS4 only, there is a new sub-oscillator feature that allows you 3 mix configurations one octave apart. That new feature allows you to apply a sawtooth with either a square, pulse or sine waveform with your option to mix. This configuration allows you a true mix (versus a "detune"). However, the octave spread is fixed, whereas on the NS3, you could pick any semitone from 0-48 as an option against the second oscillator. Sadly, that (what seems like an essential feature) doesn't exist on the NS4. Apparently, that feature never made it into the design spec of the new engine. 😢
@@MyKeysToMusic Let me take advantage of asking you one last thing, if you could help on that too: on the NS3, If I'm not wrong we could use the A-PAN effect to create a fixed pan effect L/R (with the Rate set to 0 and using the Amount knob to set L or R). On the NS4 it seems that this is no longer possible. Is that correct? If so, is there any other way to Work on Pan setting of t he various layers in order to have a deeper stereo texture? I used it a lot on the NS3, it would be great to have it also on the NS4 (maybe it will be possibile with any future OS update?). Thanks so much Mark!
Yes, there are 8 "Live Mode" slots for you to choose from, and you can reserve these for your go-to "favorite" locations for sounds at a gig. If you're in an 80s cover band, typically, the sounds are so diverse that you need more than 8 locations. But if you're playing in a blues band or something, then the needs go down a bit so long as you have your piano, organ, Rhodes, strings, and brass at the ready. You could probably get by with 8 locations for most any gig, depending on the music/band. Then again if you are performing in a pit orchestra for a musical like Annie or something like that, then you're going to need dozens of patches potentially depending on how many instruments you plan on covering with your board. An iPad or a computer in this situation is looking better and better for managing massive sound lists and complex setups. I was in a reggae band for years and I was able to get by with about 8 sound setups and that covered us for 3 full sets. Also, with the NS4 you get a lot of layers to play with so for most songs you don't need to change the program and if your setup is simple/straightforward, you could use one program for several sounds. And also with the Nord boards, it's almost expected you're going to be adjusting things on the fly to adjust like drawbars, effect types, filter amounts, volume levels, etc.
well done. I haven't heard that the sound is improved much, so given the extra work to rewrite all the progrmas, I'm hanging at S3 for awhile. If I'm going to rewrite, I'd do it in another brand than Nord.
In some ares, the sound is improved for the NS4 where samples from the Nord Sample Library are presented in stereo (Nylon String Guitar for example), and it can make a notable difference. Having 3 layers allows for some interesting options too that exceed the NS3 especially in the area of the arpeggiator. Yet, as neat and as interesting as those options are, if you’ll never use them on a gig or for a recording, it may not move the needle for you. So hanging on to the NS3 which is already a capable board, is the right option for a lot of people. 👍
Super helpful Video! I'm trying to decide whether to take the plunge. Can you answer this specific question? With NS4 can the organ engine rout to outputs 3 and/or 4 with ALL Effects while the other engines (piano, synth) rout to outputs 1 and/or 2 also with ALL Effects? this was not possible with NS3 or any previous Nord. This is non starter for me and a crucial application for us organ geeks who want to rout the organ to a Leslie or a Vent and have some ambience (reverb, delay) or other effects without sacrificing effects on the other output pairs. Apologies if this seems obvious, but I haven't seen anybody address this specific application after a lot of searching regarding the NS4 and it's output routing.
Marc, very informative video. I have owned the Stage 3(HP76) version for a couple of years, but things may change. I am using MainStage on my M1 MacBook Pro and love having right now just those "auxiliary" sounds you have mentioned. I use the dedicated "external" section on the NS3 to accomplish via USB to MainStage. I'm finding that I really am loving MainStage as it brings so much to the table and I see everyone from local bands to pro tours using it these days. Would love to see a video on using MainStage concerts to control patch changes on the NS3 (4 if it works). I'm not ready to sell my NS3 yet, but long term goal is to go full MainStage for the cover band I am in for keys, guitar and bass. I know many people aren't there yet including myself, but that is where we are heading I believe.
Hello @tomstech-gear-gadgetreview5827 thanks for your comment and question. MainStage is really the future. Billy Joel's keyboard player went "all MainStage" several years ago. Allow me to share the most interesting 5-part documentary on this very topic, where they go deep on his setup. Be prepared to be impressed! ruclips.net/video/yJfdTgOr8tE/видео.html And although he's all MainStage, he still has his traditional boards doing the work of controlling. So perhaps the NS3 will always have a place in the sun as a controller and backup for your MainStage work. I think the biggest hurdle with this for most keyboardists is the fact that you now have to "setup up and worry about" a computer. And for some, the "tech" required for that is more than they are willing to take on. Going computer means "switching platforms." In the same way that people never leave a manufacturer's brand because they like the way they do things (think Roland, Korg, Yamaha and Nord). They just don't want to learn something totally new if the reward isn't worth the effort. One thing is for sure, things are hanging at light speed in the areas of making music, especially when you consider things like AI and all the tools that are coming out for the computer these days. Stay tuned and we may tackle these topics head on here at some point. Also I have a few (many actually) asking for videos on connecting MainStage with their Nord keyboard. My priority now however, is to make a NS4 Master course so that people who are new to Nord and new to the NS4 have a place they can rest their heads. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insight on this!
@@MyKeysToMusic Marc, you are spot on as usual. I had seen the Billy Joel keyboard videos and that is what brought me to MainStage. I’m already using an Arturia board as second tier to my Nord and that already requires me to bring my MacBook Pro as does or XR18 mixer. I bought an Audio 4C to route the Arturia and the Nord plus our guitar players Arturia keyboard. We are already so dependent on computers and iPads it’s not a huge leap for us. I bring an older MacBook Air as a backup, but thinking about an M1 Mac mini to run a redundant rig like on the Billy Joel tour. My day job is in technology so I have the computer skills, but I get the old school players wanting to stick to their ways. It will be an interesting future. Keep up the excellent work it is appreciated. Tom
Hi Marc, When are you releasing your Stage 4 course? I purchased the stage 4 partially b/c of your videos and am super excited to get started. I’ve been checking your website every week or two since I bought it back in October. I know it must take a lot of time to put together, but just know you have one excited customer who is anxious to get purchase. Would love to know when you’re planning on releasing. Thank you so much! •A•
@Alexanderable Hello Alex and congrats on your Nord Stage 4! It makes me so happy to read these comments and to know you have been looking forward to the course. I'm 3/4 complete the course and will be finishing it up soon. Because I've done so many lessons already, I'm making it available for early adopters here in case you don't want to wait for the official release: www.mykeystomusic.com/courses/master-the-nord-stage-4 You can track my progress in the "version history" lesson once enrolled. Thanks again for your interest! - Marc 🎹
Even the Nord Stage 4 the pianos and etc in the library sound different because they changed the DAC in the Stage 4. From what I've been told this has happened before in Nord major upgrades when DAC was changed..
Honestly other than piano,Rhodes,Wurlitzer,clav, organ, synth leads,and pads (other than custom made samples) what sounds are really great on the Nord? Poly brass synth patches like the “ jump” sound are also useable etc. But how much variation of these sounds are really necessary or even possible with the Nord? Relying exclusively on the stage 3 or 4 or whatever to cover all the necessary sounds in a cover band is not realistic. Like you said if its a blues gig or a gig that just requires the “ bread and butter sounds” the Nord stage can cover that and between the 8 live slots and adjacent program slots quickly accessing them is not a hard task if the user area is setup properly. Trying to do it all with one keyboard with splits and layers and having all the levels set etc. quite frankly is a pain in the butt. A 2 keyboard set up is much easier especially when a keyboard player needs to cover or emulate multiple sounds and having consistent levels in a live situation is imperative. A stage 3 or 4 with something like a Kronos, montage, or motif covers a lot of ground. Or as you stated a laptop full of vst’s and a controller is another way to go. Your presentations on the Nord products are right on the money. I see this variability between the stage 3 and 4 as a huge opportunity for folks like yourself to offer valuable instruction and you should certainly charge for your expertise and hours of invested hard work. A labor of love? Perhaps. But there is a market for consolidated and well organized information. And you are the best at presenting it in a clear and concise manner. I’ll be looking forward to your stage 4 videos. I was silly enough with my finances to actually spend the 4K on a stage 4 compact. The least I can do now is learn it. Cheers.
@danielcolfer4671 Thanks for your wonderful and thoughtful comment! I think we are in agreement here with what you said about a 2 keyboard setup versus a single Nord Stage keyboard. I have a course underway for the Nord Stage 4 which will be available soon for purchase. It will have the same type of training like you see here for the Stage 3. All videos will be in 4K so they will be even higher quality than what's available for the NS3 here on RUclips. There is also a private community where you can post questions or answer questions.
@elijahhultz The answer is yes and no. There is no "mono" button on the panel anymore. Instead, you assign the outputs to a single channel and use a single cable. After doing that, the keyboard automatically adjusts to a "mono mode" setting. Here is an excerpt directly from the manual about this feature: *From the Nord Stage 4 Manual* _In certain scenarios it may be necessary or desired to output all sound coming from the Nord Stage 4 in mono, rather than stereo. To achieve this, make a setting for the Bus being used which uses just a single output channel (1, 2, 3 or 4). When using just one output, piano sounds are optimized for mono and stereo effects are adapted for mono use._
Thank you for this!! Does the file viewer include the values for the morph assigns? I LOVE the Nosferatu 2017 sound but wouldn't know how to recreate the mod wheel. I also love the NS3 Event Horizon so that would be a dealbreaker for me if I couldn't recreate these sounds. (BTW, I followed your advice and I'm almost done with Syntorial--great tool! (I'll probably have to do it again to really get command but I've come a long long way!))
@judyshatkin Sorry for the delay on this comment. As you may have already discovered by now, the answer is absolutely yes, the Nord File Viewer includes and specifies any and all morph assignments. Thanks for working with Syntorial - they just came out with a great update too which I'm excited about getting started with. Keep up the great work!
Great video as usual! So I might be able to transfer or “convert” the custom sample patches I built on the Sample Editor for the Stage 3 for the Stage 4?? That’s the biggie for me. I can always learn how to program basic patches or sounds for the Stage 4 but I spent hours sampling lots of sounds using the Sample Editor for the Stage 3. If I could just transfer those custom samples using the Sound Manager over to the Stage 4, that would be awesome!
Hello @walt686868 long time no speak, and sorry for the delay here. If you built any custom samples, then yes, you can instantly build a version that is compatible with the Nord Stage 4. However, you can't do this via the Nord Sound Manager (yet). It has to be done using the Nor Sample Editor, assuming too that YOU are the one providing the raw wav file that makes up the sample. I assume in the not too distant future, Nord will make it possible to take a Nord Stage 3 sample and have that converted for use on the Nord Stage 4 in the same way they've done this for the Nord Stage 2 upgraded to the Nord Stage 3.
@@walt686868 Happy to help! You would open up the nsmpproj which would trigger the Nord Sample Editor application to open. Assuming your Nord Stage 4 is connected and on, you simply click the button that says "Generate and Transfer To Nord." Doing that will automatically export a sample compatible with the 4.0 format as well as install it on your NS4. If you don't have a Nord Stage 4 connected, you can still toggle the default format type by selecting "NSMP 4" under the "Config" button. Then, that same button is listed as "Save." Selecting the Save Button will export the sound to the NS4 Sample 4.0 format in the project folder for later use. Good luck! ⚠Warning: There is a bug today whereby the latest OS that came out yesterday (2023-07-06) isn't compatible with one-shot samples for the NS4. They'll likely have a fix very soon. Don't install the latest OS until that fix comes out.
@@MyKeysToMusic wow, so this basically takes care of the issue on my end. Maybe it’s time to buy a Stage 4!! Thanks again for your very helpful answers. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😄
@@walt686868 Glad these chats are helpful! There are a few minor additional considerations people have discovered along the way when it comes to differences between the Stage 3 and 4 sounds - specifically in the synth section: 1) There are some oscillator configurations "missing" from the engine that is available on the NS3. And because of this, it requires 2 layers instead of one to pull them off. Things like mixing two waveforms together in a detune situation with variable semitones are not available on the NS4 within a single layer. 2) Although there are 3 types of noise options available on the NS4, you can't mix them in with an existing oscillator unless you introduce another layer. 3) Using the extern option on the NS4 takes a layer away from the synth. On the NS3, the Extern option is entirely independent, and you get 2 Extern options if you consider panels A and B without eating any existing synth layers. 4) The glide amount is calibrated differently on the NS4. The difference is so great that classic sounds like "Nosferatu 2017" on the NS3 cannot be replicated at this time. It's because the glide on the NS4 isn't elongated enough to make those exaggerated glide sounds. Granted, I can count on one hand the number of people that use "Nosferatu 2017" during a gig, if at all, but it's a point worth noting for those passionate sound designers out there. - Marc
A superb analysis, Marc. I would quite enjoy recreating my synth patches on the NS4 and using the enhanced features of the NW2 engine, but not having the song mode would be a bit of an obstacle needing to be overcome. I feel that the triple sensor technology that the NS4 has would be more advantageous for a true pianist, which I am not (I am more of a "synth-head"!). I love my NS3 for the organs and pianos for gigs where required, and the fact I can create sounds using Arturia software and upload them to the NS3 using Nord Sample Editor. A combination of NS3 plus Nord Wave 2 would cover my needs. I think that Nord have responded well to the desires of their users/the Nord community with the NS4, but maybe I will upgrade the Nord Stage in a few years' time when the Nord Stage 5 comes out!
@MRFThorne Hey Mark! Thanks for your comment and insight. The NS3 does blend many aspects of the Wave 2 with the Stage 3, so in that sense, there is a lot of upside. The Wave 2 is still a bit more powerful in a few areas (impulse and velocity morph and many assignable morph destinations are but a few couple of examples). If you can wait another 5 or 6 years for the Nord Stage 5, then I think you're on to something. I'm sure I'll be in line waiting with you... 🎹
Thanks for your video. A little bit too long . Reprogramming all Sounds from NS3 to NS4 was clear . But eliminating the song mode and increase the price by nearly 25 % is a nogo.
Hello, @johanngeorgkumpfmueller887 - thanks for the comment and feedback. Song mode for those that rely on it in the NS3 is a dealbreaker for upgrading to the NS4. However, more and more people are looking at outside alternatives for song list/setlist management. Yet, in doing that, it is more work for the initial setup. Once done, however, there are some added benefits. Yet, I remain dumbfounded why song mode was not included with the latest version of the Stage. They removed the "set list" function from the Nord Electro 6 as well - so I guess we have a trend. Not sure what the logic was in removing what most see as a basic and essential feature.
The loss of song mode is actually stopping me from buying the Stage 4. I play on alot of concerts with various artist, and I use a multi-keyboard setup(with external FX-units) and the whole rig is controlled very elegantly by my Stage 3. The real problem with “the new way” of doing it is when the artist says 30min before the show, “I want to change the order on the setlis, I want song B to come before song A” Good luck trying to solve this in a quick way on the Stage 4. On the Stage 3 it’s really easy to do, as you can really easily change the order of the setlist. I think to to remove the Song mode from the Stage 4 was a extremely bad descision by Clavia. (As well as the removal of the extern section….)
The Extern is still available, except that it pulls from exiting synth layers. I agree; it would have been ideal if it was a dedicated section instead. Song mode will be missed...
I think the depth of your approach is quite great. Now I know that I need about 1..2 years to bring my sounds from the NS3 to the NS4 ... On the NS3 I always use panel A and B to EQ 2 organs fine and coarse and often also use one organ panel A or B on outputs 3 and 4 to make bassy and higher sounds sound simultaneously a bit more like a good B3, sometimes with Ventilator II on out 3,4. How could this be achieved most easily on the NS4?
@taileron As you know, the organ on the NS4 can't have separate effects settings. The same goes for outputs. Both organ layers work as a collective and cannot be separated in that way on the NS4. You can, however, determine where the rotary speaker is routed independent of the organs, but that may not help you with what you are trying to do. Sorry, I wish the news would be better.
@@MyKeysToMusic 1000 Thanks for making sure my findings are correct. I'm starting to see more features where the NS4 is inferior to the NS3. But finally the NS4 is vastly superior to the NS3, especially in the output circuit, it is especially with the (e)pianos much less external narrow EQ bands needed to sound perfect on a large PA. The NS4 synth engine also gives quite good organs, especially the somewhat too loud percussion of the B3 sim can now be done by the synth via EQ into the rotary. (thx for this additional tip)
@@MyKeysToMusic Another really great thing about the NS4 using Synth B3 Percussion as an example ... in each synth presets all applied morphs are also stored, if e.g. the organ swell pedal has to be held parallel in level to the synth volume control pedal.
@@taileron Interesting concept and one that I've toyed with a bit, but not to any great extent. Can you let me know what settings you are using to provide the "Synth B3 Percussion" - I'm curious to check that out on this end.
Thank you for this. So let me get this straight - the most used/important feature of my Nord Stage 3 - Song Mode - they did away with? Wow. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that is crazy - hard pass on the Stage 4 for me then...
@lenmusic123 Exactly! There are a LOT of people that said the same thing (hard pass) because of the lack of song mode. No one understood what they were thinking by removing that.
@mrmartinez4188 Great question. It depends on the person purchasing it and what their needs are. You can get 90% + features with a Nord Stage 3 at quite a bit less. If, however, you want that poly arp, the new and improved samples, and the better, more streamlined workflow, then the NS4 is worth it for sure. The drawbars with lights have also been a BIG help.
How can I survive without my almost 150 songs? Recreate sounds will be a pain in the neck...anyway, thanks a lot for let me know about these seious considerations.
I think you made the right decision. Nord would be smart (if it was possible) to create a "migration option" for people upgrading from the NS3 to the NS4. They would make a LOT more sales that way. There is a growing number of people that refuse to update now that they know all the work involved to do so. Then give us song mode back and we're good to go! I realize these "magic wand" requests are probably harder and less feasible than they seem on the surface. But still, that's a blind spot that would help if Nord could address it somehow.
No song mode is a huge deal breaker for me. It's extremely unfortunate as ordering 50 songs in different lists is no longer possible unless actually rearranging the patch numbers. With Nord usually being the "ultimate live keyboard" due to the button accessibility and ease of use, this decision is extremely questionable in my opinion.
@21pianochris62, you are not alone in that opinion! I'm not sure why this important feature never made the cut. I'll be exploring workarounds on this end, and I look forward to sharing possible options available. Some might be slick, while others might be far more work than it's worth.
@TylerMarletteNY. Hello Tyler. The pianos sound the same to my ears and they draw from the same exact piano library. Of course, a piano through Cathedral Reverb via the NS4 is on another level. So in that aspect, you can take your pianos and do enhancements like that via the effects which is only available on the NS4. However, that alone is not enough to move most people into the far more expensive NS4. The Samples from the Nord sample library however are a bit of a different story with pros and cons to each. The Nord Sample Library 3 is more vast with years of additions making it a bit more complete. However, many samples are in mono. The Nord Sample library 4 has most of the samples in stereo and they do sound better in some/most situations, but there are less of them. So, you may be longing for some key samples available on the NS3, but not on the NS4 - so do your homework and create a list of things you can't live without and be sure they exist in the NS4 sample library 4.0. I want to talk about the synth for a minute. The pure synth out of the box sounds a touch better on the NS3 to my ears. Check out my video where I compare the super saw: ruclips.net/video/xSRxyRarnxY/видео.htmlfeature=shared Yet, at the same time with a little extra effort, you can improve the sound on the NS4 to meet or exceed that of the NS3. I find you have to add a little high-end EQ to most of the sounds to bring out their best. Once you do that however, the synth "sound" is on par (or better) than the NS3. Of course, having that 3rd layer cannot be understated - it makes a big impact. Now, the arpeggiator capabilities of the Nord Stage 4 is where it leaves the NS3 in the dust. If you have even a little bit of interest in the arpeggiator and what I can do for you, the NS4 is where you want to lean. I'm at a point now where I'm spoiled with what I can do with the Nord Stage 4. Also, the fact that we can assign effects "our heart's content" ends up being a really big deal, especially for complex sounds. Another thing that is important but often completely dismissed by most reviews is the fact that the polyphony is greatly expanded with the Nord Stage 4. It's a little harder to run out of notes now when playing those lush synth parts compared to the NS3. Within the last month, Nord released an OS update to the Stage 4 giving a new oscillator configuration (Sub oscillators). This one feature alone was like giving us a 5% enhancement in the synth area allowing us to dial in sub oscillators (hearing two oscillators tuned 2 octaves apart.) This now means we no longer need to use an extra layer to produce that same sound. This frees up an entire layer. (Note, you can do this already on the NS3 on a single panel). See my video on Sub oscillators here if you want to see this feature on the NS3: ruclips.net/video/g5BgfYjraUY/видео.htmlfeature=shared So, in the end are the sounds "so much better" that this one aspect alone can justify the upgrade? No, I don't think so. They quality is so close most wouldn't even notice. Yet, taken as a whole, is it worth opening the wallet and taking a plunge for the NS4? This all depends if the other NS4 features speak to you loudy and you "just gotta have that." Then yes, go for it. Make sure you order from a retailer that double boxes - I've heard stories of shipping damage when retailers don't do that. Feel free to use my Sweetwater link for the 2 year warrantee as well: bit.ly/Sweetwater_MyKeysToMusic Hopefully this gives you more to think about and helps move you along with your decision a bit. - Marc
@tanner6871 You are spot on with this assessment. It's easy to lose site of just how easy the Nord boards are to use compared to the complexities of other competing workstations. Sure, other brands offer a lot of bang for the buck, but you have to figure out how to use the thing only to end up using a fourth of what it can do because of the complexities of the setup and the intense menu diving. In the end, having too many options can be just as bad (or worse) than having too few. People can be critical of Nord for what they don't offer, but I believe that is by design to ensure that it's as simple to use as possible. 👍🏻
I did already comment another video about the point: the Súper Saw Waves is a NO problem. Super saw in NS3 are just samples. You can notice how they change from each D# to E. The bright flavor simply disappears, and it repeats with each A and A#. They basically sampled each C and F#, and you can do the same with NS4 and nord editor.
How interesting! I just listened to the raw SuperSaw just now on the NS3 and to my ears, I can't seem to replicate what you hear on your end. They all seem to be the same brightness to me. Am I missing something? 🤷🏻♂️
@@MyKeysToMusic is really subtle you can notice more in the lower frequencies within C1 and C3. Also you will notice in case you try to sample it … it is the same wave repeating
Got it! Thanks for the information and the tip about sampling this. It’s nice that we have the option in the first place (to sample things on our Nord boards} for those times when you need the exact sound…
Salesman said you can have a set list. Demos show when you add a song / program to that list everything moves up automatically. And you can save that list of programs. 512 of them. 😊 What don’t I get…?
@johnscott4693 Thanks for your comment and question. Well, I think the word "set list" has different meanings for different people. The distinct advantage of the "song mode" provided by the Nord Stage 3 is the fact that you can select a song, and then you get 5 "song parts" to use and switch to within that song. In order to do that with the Nord Stage 4, you'd have to switch programs which for most is an awkward workflow as it's not a click of a single button. Yes, the new Scenes option on the NS4 takes care of some of that, but in a complex song situation, there is nothing easier than Song Mode to pave the way for a smooth transition between multiple parts back and forth. Now some (most?) musicians are getting by just fine, having never used Song Mode in their life, while others can't live without it. So, for this feature, there is a mixed bag of reactions to it. But you're right; the NS4 has 512 locations to store programs which, for most, should be more than enough. It's just a matter of building the program list like a setlist, either at the top of the list or the bottom. Recently, things were made more accessible with the latest OS too, whereby the NS4 now allows you to filter the program list by alphabet and by category making searching for programs more bearable. Thanks for watching!
@@MyKeysToMusic my understanding of its operation is the workaround. Take Dont stop Believeing. Two broad sounds for most of the number cp80 and synths brass. I mix 4 sounds across my RD700 NX. Then to do the complex solo (mamba etc with two hands) I change the ENTIRE board. So I play key set up 1, Then set up 2 for the solo then up again to 3, and 3 is the same as set up 1. The massive difference with the Nord (over Roland in both respects) is A) you can use a foot pedal to move up from key set 1, (4 instruments mixed) to set 2 (2 different instruments mixed) and pedal press up again to to set 3 (which is same a se1). B) Unlike other keyboards, the sounds don’t stop * when you switch key from Set 1 to set 2 ie seamless way to play that solo and come back again. This is a big issue for me… I can play Lord knows how many solos now just after pressing a foot pedal. * see what I did there 😉?
@@johnscott4693 Excellent observations and explanation. Yes, the foot pedal capability and seamless transitions is a lethal combo in a live setting. With the Nord, you can also go back a program too instead of going forward to step 3 (which is just like step 1) so long as you use a dual pedal.
@@MyKeysToMusic thanks, wasn’t sure how a single action pedal knows whether to go down a programme instead of up though??? Explain please. Handy Ideas & workarounds … I’m full of it (my wife Keeps,telling me)
@@johnscott4693 A single pedal can only move programs in one direction or the other (but not both). Your wife seems to be a good partner in keeping you grounded 😉
Congrats on your incoming Nord Stage 4!! Well done!! Be prepared for some late nights... Make sure you subscribe to the channel, and you may want to check out my free and paid courses on my main website too if you haven't already: www.MyKeysToMusic.com The upcoming NS4 course is coming out great so far as I've just finished the entire Synth Section as well as the getting started section. In the end, there will be 80+ lessons available this summer. Stay tuned! Don't forget to check out my latest videos featuring the NS4 here on RUclips. Joe Walsh, The Doors, and A Fifth of Beethoven.
Whether to upgrade or not of course is a personal decision. There is no right answer. For me, there is nothing the Stage 4 does that my Stage 3 doesn't. That's simply because of the needs that I require. We as consumers get caught up with new things, the shiny bells and whistles, different ways of carrying out functions, perhaps even better ways like how the the S4 implements effects. But this isn't a keyboard that's set at a modest price point. I also have a Roland RD800 that originally cost around 2400 in 2015. The RD2000 came out a few years later and was marked up to 2500 and had an entirely new sound engine added and still included the engines from the 800 for backward compatibility. Contrast that 100 dollar difference with the Stage 4 that is now 5600 American dollars (88 Key) compared to the 3 that originally cost around 4600. Now if the Nord Stage 4 had super duper improved piano samples that were indistinguishable from the real thing, then perhaps I might be interested but sound wise, the S4 uses the same sample engine and organ model that the 3 has. (I do know that the samples are enhanced). And regarding the upgraded Wave engine replacing the A1Lead engine, I could spend my money better buying a dedicated synth instead of upgrading to an S4. No doubt, the Stage 4 is a great keyboard and if I didn't own a Stage 3, perhaps I would consider such a purchase but considering the price, I'm rather glad I purchased the 3 when I did. Mark, your considerations are spot on and as you point out, the fact that Nord has not created a path to upgrade patches is criminal, perhaps just as criminal as not including a sustain pedal for a board that costs over 5000 bucks!
@ldifalco2010 I agree entirely. It's not that the NS4 is a bad board, the question is whether or not the investment is in line with the feature set relative to the needs of the given musician. This decision becomes all the more harder for someone who already owns an NS3, which is a powerhouse of its own. That and the fact that the "setup" (which for some has taken years) is not trivial. For the person brand new to Nord, it's perhaps a little easier to lean in the direction of the NS4 if that lines up with their overall budget. Thanks for your background and insight on this!!
I have moved from my 3 to the 4 and have improved all my patches, I sadly enjoy programming and sampling so one of the reasons for buying a 4 was its new features. I still have two stage 3's and a Nord wave 2 the stage 4 is a real weapon love it. great video Mark. I do miss song mode however...
@Keyboardnut99 I think your RUclips name says it all. Just want to say again that you have a nice stable of horses! I actually traded one of my Stage 3s for a Nord Piano 5 because I'm likely going to do a course on that one too. I think you've been following the channel for a while, but did you see my "Chariots of Fire" video done on 4 Nord Keyboards? A guy like you might appreciate this level of Nord geekiness: ruclips.net/video/-_bJlgLlutU/видео.html
That is completely insane that Nord doesn’t make it easier to move you programs from one instrument to another. What the hell? How could they not consider this
@fishing4444able I have put some thought into this since the question comes up a lot… I don’t represent the company in that I don’t have a direct in and I’m certainly not part of any decisions they make. But here are some assumptions that I believe which helps me reconcile the question in my mind: 1) I assume that it’s extra effort/expense to program a mechanism to do this. So there is a feasibility aspect to that decision. 2) They may not completely realize or fully appreciate just how many people currently own an NS3 and how making a way to update sounds will help sell the NS4. A lot of people put a pause upgrading for the sole reason that doing so means hours of work reprogramming. Then again, maybe this goes back to #1. 3) Similar to #1 above, there may not be a way to upgrade the programs that maintains their sonic integrity since the synth engines in particular are very different. Attempts to do so would have mixed results I think leaving the door open to criticism that the “migration process doesn’t work” and putting things in a worse situation. Instead, it may simply be easier to let folks do their own reprogramming. * I’d be curios to know if other brands have a similar challenge when one upgrades from a previous version of a Yamaha, Korg, or Roland synth? If an architecture has been reinvented, then perhaps we have a “You can’t get there from here” kind of situation happening. And these companies are much larger with more economies of scale that could have more impact on the feasibly question in creating an upgrade path if one existed. So, that’s my 2 cents! In other words, I really don’t know the answer, but I tell myself the above to reconcile it in my brain.
That whole situation is a mess and should not have happened. Really bad design that throws existing consumers under the bus. If you are going to capitalise on a product name and release a v2, you have to supply what you supplied 'before' exactly and 'more' as extra features. The 'before' programmes should be easily ported. The 'more' features are new that did not exist before, so no conversion is required. If you change core features so they are not compatible, it's a new product and should not share the same name. Nord had two legitimate choices. Either build on top of the existing design, so it is back comapt and capitalise on the Nord Stage product name, or break back compat and make a new keyboard with different sound engine that has a different product name. Nord have acted shady here by creating a new keyboard with an incompatible sound engine and called it Nord Stage. Knowing this, any sensible existing consumer should just stay on the Nord Stage 3. The rogue Nord Stage 4 only suits new consumers. Nord clearly do not support back compat, so if you love your Nord keyboard, stick with it.
@itsjusterthought7941 Thanks for your input here. What you say makes a lot of sense. If these kinds of positions/strategies were to happen in the software world, there would be an uprising on a scale the world has never seen. But I must keep reminding myself this is not the software world; this is a boutique keyboard manufacturer who marches to their own drum (and, based on their history, always has). In their partial defense, I think the naming of the "Stage" line of keyboards has more to do with the "purpose" of the board (to have Organ, Piano, and Synth capabilities and controller features) versus the moving from one board version to another (like you'd have with an upgrade with a piece of software). That said, it would be great if more consideration would happen related to the idea of migrating sounds/programs from one version to the next. I'm not sure what the answer is or if anything will ever change in the future, but a lot of people have purchased the Stage 3 and a lot of people are not upgrading to the Stage 4 because there is no such thing as an upgrade path from one to the next. As far as pricing goes, I assume they price based on what the market will bear, and the market votes with their wallet one way or the other. I would place a bet that if they had maintained song mode, had better pricing, and a defined upgrade path from the Stage 3, their sales for the NS4 would go up - perhaps beyond their expectations.
Nice find! @hillard3367 Sounds like a good deal too! Welcome to the club. There are free and paid courses available on my main web page and extra content on my Patreon page too…
This sounds like a good suggestion yet, I never thought about it. I'd be sure there are no "strong chemicals" as part of that equation, however. Want to make sure the keys don't get discolored, but on the panel itself, it might be ok (not including the OLED screens, perhaps).
@fishing4444able With 512 locations available and assuming they want 3/4 programmed for the customer out of the box, overlap is bound to happen. And on a typical gig, there are really only about a dozen “staple sounds” one needs in the first place. Finding that balance of making lots of sounds available while also attempting to make each one completely unique, may be a physics problem. But your observations are spot-on. I don’t know what the solution is when taking in to considerations all these aspects.
HOW do I get pass the fact that a Stage 4 only comes with a 1 year warranty?🫤 Do you have any idea how much post pandemic shipping and repairs will be -should the Stage 4 go down!😵💫 It can’t always happen to the other guy.🫤
If you order through Sweetwater, you automatically get a 2-year warranty. Use my affiliate link here, and you won't pay a dime more, but you can support the channel: bit.ly/Sweetwater_MyKeysToMusic Repairs with Sweetwater (using them as an example) will run you approx $150/hour plus parts. Some repairs you can do yourself (like replacing knobs and side panels). Other, more elaborate repairs like replacing the OLED display, any of the circuit boards, power, or repairing normal wear and tear items like dust under the keys requires that you take the board apart. Some owners do these repairs themselves (assuming the warranty is already expired), while most send it off to a repair center. Wait time is measured in weeks, depending on what it is. Sometimes you are lucky to have to sent to a local repair shop where shipping is not going to add to the time, expense, or complexity. Generally speaking, Nord boards are built well and built to last. However, issues do (and will) happen from time to time. Some will be cosmetic (like when you go to the gig without a case and you scratch your side panels) - I'm speaking from personal experience here. While other things, like the OLED display suddenly going dark are fewer and far between, but cause an interruption in your world requiring a repair. Be sure to perform your gigs with clean power. Get a personal UPS for your gigs - bad power causes havoc with the Nord boards and this is where a lot of the "big" issues stem from. ruclips.net/video/A3yirLV8fKo/видео.html
Thank you for the time you take to investigate the differences between the various keyboards and preparing extremely informative videos like this. (I'll be sticking with my NS3 for now.)
Hey @davevaebutuoy thanks for stopping by and saying hello! Nice to hear from you again. I think that the decision to stick with the Stage 3, is a good one, especially if you don't plan on doing more with the synth or taking advantage of the new arp options. They are wonderful, but it's likely you won't be using those during a gig unless you do that kind of music, etc.
Great insight. I've been a gigging keyboard player for 30 years. My gig rig has evolved over the years from Kurzweil to Yamaha to right now I'm using a Roland Juniper-50 on top of a Hammond SK1-88. I love the Hammond, but it has issues, and the Roland is decent for some things but limited for others. Never owned, or even played a Nord, but I pulled the trigger on an impulse and ordered a Stage 4 yesterday. Now I'm "Nording-out" online trying to learn as much as I can while I wait for it to arrive. Kind of a surreal feeling to think that I'll soon be using a keyboard THIS capable. I've never had the ability to import custom samples so this is going to be a big plunge. I can't wait.
For setlists and keyboard MIDI program changes I thought I'd mention I've been using Setlist Maker app running on an old iPad for years, which works pretty well for what I'm doing (classic rock cover band gigging).
@88keysand1beer Congrats on taking the plunge! Thanks too for sharing your background in your comment. The hardest part now is waiting for it to arrive, right? Hopefully, Setlist Maker can send out MSB and LSB numbers because that's what the Nord will need to change programs.
For your information, I have a free course called "Master the Nord Sample Editor," where you can learn the ins and outs of making your own samples. I also have a master class in prerelease called "Master the Nord Stage 4", which features over 125 lessons and more than 25 hours of video training on nearly every aspect of the board if you want to dive deep. You can find both at www.MyKeysToMusic.com. In the meantime, I will do my best to answer questions for people here on my channel, as you can probably tell by reading any of the comments and responses. Congrats again on your decision, and welcome to the Nord community! 🎹🎼
@@MyKeysToMusicI'm pretty sure Setlist Maker will work, it does do MSB and LSB. In fact, you can plug MIDI out from keyboard and "record" the MIDI messages, edit them if needed, then play them back to the keyboards MIDI in.
I'll check out the free course once I'm up and running! I'm sure I'll be reaching out when I have questions! Thanks again.
@@88keysand1beer Sounds good and good luck!
@@MyKeysToMusic Setlist Maker works like a champ with the NS4!
I did run into an odd problem with the NS4 that I'm not sure is a bug or some undocumented feature.
Demonstrated here: ruclips.net/video/G9SJTGF4KsM/видео.html
@@88keysand1beer So, the way the program level works is dependent on the max range allowed by all layers from all sound engines as a collective. In other words, if you had a single layer assigned and on within a given program and that same layer was set to play at 100% volume, then the range on the knob would extend to the full amount allowed. If however, that same layer was programmed to start at 1/2 volume, then the range of the knob would be lower since your volume is already set to start at only 1/2. So, that knob changes from program to program based on exactly where the level sliders are set. You may have to take a few minutes to get your head around this and do some experimentation. Just eyeball all the levels when you first arrive at a program. If any one of them is set lower than 100 %, then the volume adjuster is going to be reduced to compensate. The same works in reverse. If you come to a program where NONE of the layers are set to max volume, then the program adjuster will allow you to go up a bit as well.
While you do all this, keep in mind that these sliders appear to be based on a logarithmic scale rather than a linear one. In simple terms, this means the change or effect of moving the slider increases exponentially as you move it toward one end. This is common in audio equipment where finer control is preferred at one end of the scale.
In the case of volume controls, for example, a logarithmic taper is often used because the human ear perceives loudness logarithmically. This means small changes in volume at lower settings (the top of the slider) are more noticeable than the same change at higher settings (the bottom of the slider). The design intent is to give you finer control over the volume where you need it most. Said another way, you'll notice the numbers increment in bigger jumps at the very bottom of the slider and much smaller jumps at the very top of the slider. This concept can play tricks on you when you are calibrating your program levels and adjusting knobs/sliders.
* Also note that once you adjust your volumes, you'll need to Store the program (of course). Also ensure you are on the latest OS as a best practice.
Pro Tip. If you want to see the exact amount of -dB assigned to a given layer, push and hold the "monitor" button as you move the volume slider. This will tell you the exact amount it is set to (which is impossible to do without the monitor button). Find the lowest slider of all the ones programmed, then take that number and deduct it from 100. That should then be the max number your program knob will let you adjust to on the lower end of the spectrum. You can do the same thing in reverse for the upper end so long as none of the sliders are already set to 100%.
Hopefully, all this makes sense... I'm going to add this detailed note for that lesson in my course because I haven't explained it in this much detail until now. So thanks!!
Thank you for your time to make this VDO,
In my point of view who is NS3 owner for 3 years and still love it,
Maybe I’ll wait for NS5 or 6 😊😊
Hope you still make a good Nord user VDO till then 🤟🤟
Happy and Healthy Marc
Hello @eflat70 Thanks for your comment and compliment. Appreciate the support! I'm working on my master online course for the NS4 as the priority, but I will have more content coming out on RUclips too of course. As you may have already seen, my latest videos feature the NS4 although I try to be sensitive to the fact that there are many still using the NS3 and will be for years. Cheers! 🙏🏻 🎹
Another great video from you Mark. I've currently got an Electro 6d 73 and I'm thinking of upgrading to a Stage 4. The loss of Song Mode would never be an issue for me because, as you explained, I've always used the Program Groups 1-4, etc to save my song parts. It would, however, have been useful to be able to transfer these programs to the Stage 4 instead of having to re-create them again. Once again, congratulations on a very informative video.
@alastairprydderch2819 Hello Alastair, the partial bright spot is that as you go to recreate all you programs for the Nord Stage 4, it forces you to learn it which, in the long run, will pay off in spades. FYI, I'm making good progress on the "Master the Nord Stage 4" course - stay tuned for the release of that hopefully before the end of 2023.
Good points you've brought!
Thank you obifa @obifachinabi Good luck with your decision and if there are more questions, you know where to find me.
Good advice! I’m sure the the sound-editor will be updated to be able to convert samples and as you say we nord users are used to not being able to transfer patches between models. That said I’m extremely exited about all the new features, a lot of really good stuff that I can see myself using on gigs. Simple but powerful stuff like note priority high/low (now I can play a chord and have a lead that’s playing the top note), tap tempo on pedal not to mention the new three part synth engine!
Hey there @zoulistic thanks for your comment. I agree! I'm finding that the combination of the Wave 2 synth engine coupled with the EQ of the NS3 brings the synth to another level. The Stage 4 reverbs are really amazing too. Also, the amount of polyphony provided plays well against the 3 engines. (I have yet to really run out of polyphony under normal usage).
This definitely helped me make an informed decision, for now , song mode is an integral part of my live performances, I’m going to stick w. My stage 3. This video alone gave me the info I reallllllly needed to make my decision.. thanks
@GeniusCompany5 that is really good to know that this video helped you make your final decision. A lot of people are in the same boat.
Thanks for this video Marc. As a regularly gigging Nord Stage 3 user, I rely heavily on Song Mode and Song parts to switch seamlessly between parts and songs. All of your insights are spot on.
Thank you @eric311000 I find that the more entrenched a professional is with their NS3, the more complex the decision becomes to upgrade to the NS4 or not. And for some features (like lack of Song mode), it's not an upgrade but a slight downgrade. 😪
Thank you. Two really important issues covered really well.
Thank you. Appreciate the comment!
Great video Marc. I would love the Stage 4 but it is way too expensive, and the fact that I would have to redo all these programs is the definitely the deal breaker for me. Keep the great videos coming!
Hi Mike! I hear what you are saying (about the expense). What I’ve learned since the release of the Stage 4, is how great it is, while at the same time how well the Stage 3 holds up after all these years!
So so helpful. I have spent a lot of time making and refining patches on my NS3. I made my own sample instruments in Nord Sample Editor. Also use Song Mode all the time. Won’t my sample instruments upload to NS4 from NSE?
@calumhoward6094 Hey Calum! If you use the latest Nord Sound Manager, it can convert older samples to one that is compatible with your board.
I said goodbye to my stage3 Compact TODAY. I'm in it to win it so to speak with my Stage-4
Thanks Marc! I want to say thank you for all of the support you have given the Nord community! You make the Nord a better instrument! I'm looking forward to leaning the Stage 4 to a higher level than the stage 3!
@johngaudette4664 Thanks for your kind words! CONGRATS on your upgrade! I think you have placed a nice challenge in front of you (to learn the NS4 more than you did the NS3). It will pay off in spades. Wait till you see what you can do with the advanced arpeggiator options - it gets crazy. 👍🏻
one thought about the samples I've created; they were initially a wav file that had to be converted for Nord. I certainly didn't destroy othe wav files and I have the wav files so, likely imports in that format and changes for S4 within their sound manager or sample editor I should say.
Correct! You should be good to go based on how you described that here because you have the original wav files. 👍
Marc
I truly appreciate the details you provide. I’m in a different boat, I never owned a Nord. I have extensive experience going back the 80’s with:
1, Live bands - Hardware synths, Rhodes and organ
2. Live bands - Midi master keyboard (KX-88) controlling hardware synths
3. Home studio - Multiple workstation keyboards
4. Current - Home studio - great master keyboard (RD-2000), Logic Pro, plenty of software synths and a recently added Hydrasynth Deluxe
Despite having the ability to create most any sound, I miss the immediacy of hardware and the hassle of menu diving when I have limited time to actually play in my home studio.
While I know you cannot answer what’s best for me, but what is your opinion of using a Stage 4 as master controller/sound engine tied to my extensive collection of software synths and Logic?
Hello @trstack - thanks for your question! Although the Nord Stage 4 is NOT a controller keyboard in the traditional sense, it does have "some" controller-like functionality. The big thing to realize about the NS4 is the fact that for every unique MIDI channel you want to use for the purposes of controlling your collection of software synths, you lose the ability to use the internal sounds for that channel/layer on the Stage 4. In other words, if you already have a controller whereby you go out of your way to use it as an _advanced_ controller (you have multiple splits, each sending out to your software synths on a different MIDI channel), then you may not be willing to make that sacrifice. For example, if you want to control a VST Trumpet out of MIDI channel 4, and then layer that with a cool VST string pad on channel 5 and then split channel 6 so that a flute layers only on the upper half the keyboard, you can do all that, but then you will left with ZERO Nord Stage 4 synth engines available to you for internal sounds. They will have all been used to accommodate your software sounds.
If, on the other hand, when you control your software synths, you tend to do it from a single MIDI channel and you use the software to decide which engines are on or off and how they are split and layered, then the NS4 will probably be exactly what you need, and it can be used for this purpose. This means you would sacrifice one NS4 layer for ALL the extern work, and that leaves two of the internal synth layers available for you on the NS4 directly.
*Here are some general things to keep in mind when using the Nord Stage 4 as a MIDI controller:*
1) For every independent MIDI channel you want to control by way of the "extern" functionality, you sacrifice one of the Stage 4 synth layers (and you get 3 of these total). You can't have both the NS4 sound while also controlling your external software sounds; it's an either/or situation (unfortunately).
2) Although the Nord keyboard does send MIDI out for many of the knobs you turn, they are NOT assignable. In other words, the CC information is there, but you are stuck with what CC number a given controller sends on. A perfect example of what I'm talking about is the organ drawbars. Yes, they send CC signals out, but if your software doesn't expect the pre-baked CC#s Nord has assigned to them, you are out of luck. Compare this to a "true" controller keyboard, and you'll quickly see that a true controller allows you to move a drawbar AND assign that drawbar to a given CC #. Not only that, the controller keyboard lets you set which direction the drawbar is anchored at zero, allowing you to reverse your drawbars! This is night-and-day functionality when you talk about going toe to toe with a real controller. Thus, that's why I state above that the NS4 is not a true controller keyboard, but rather it has some controller-like features - but let's not call it a controller.
3)The sustain pedal, pitch stick, and mod wheel all send MIDI out, and there is some flexibility on turning them on and off. But here again, the CC#s are pre-baked with no way to assign them to a preferred CC#. This is something that most purpose-built controllers do out of the box.
4) The NS4 does have the ability to pick up two given CC#s for you to control (and assign) using onboard knobs. You also have the choice to send a program change using a third knob. Now, for some people, this may be all they need, and perhaps it's already more than enough. For others, they see this as a huge limitation, especially if they are accustomed to being able to assign ANY knob/button to ANY CC# when they use a traditional controller.
5) The NS4 does allow you to send a program change upon load. This is a nice feature used by a LOT of people. It, however, is a feature limited to a single program change per MIDI channel (and here again, if you want to control multiple channels, you'll need to designate a synth layer for each which means you don't get to use that assigned layer as a sound source).
6) There is a bright spot for the NS4 whereby it's very easy to simply take a given synth layer out of extern mode with a click of a button. Doing this immediately allows you to use the internal sounds of the NS4. So, if you don't mind turning things on and off mid-performance (which most people don't mind at all because that's the very nature of Nord keyboards in general), then perhaps this is one small way you can have your cake and eat it too. For example, let's say you use all 3 NS4 synth layers to produce a given part of a song. But then you want to use that amazing solo Trumpet sound from SWAM Instruments just for the piccolo trumpet solo part on Penny Lane by the Beatles. You can simply push your Extern button on Synth Layer A, and boom, there is your trumpet VST ready to go. Once the solo is done, you turn off the extern option again and you're right back to using the built-in sounds on the NS4. That's probably a bad song to use as an example because it probably doesn't actually require all 3 synth layers in the first place. Then again, if you are playing the sample to make the fire-engine clank "bell" sounds from that song and you are also asked to play key bass, etc., then perhaps you are using the synth more than you'd think on a song like that and having the ability to turn on and off the extern option at-will is a benefit we want to highlight.
I'm sure there are dozens more things I could say about all this, but this is already a blog article in the making! Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you decide if you have the chance... Feel free to ask more questions, and I'll get to them when possible. Good luck! 👍🏻 🎹 💻
@@MyKeysToMusic Thank you for a comprehensive response that helps me better understand the "structure" of the Stage 4. I currently use my RD-2000 for acoustic piano internal sounds only on channel 1, channels 2-8 are mapped to soft synths on separate MIDI channels that allows me to change either the patch or source via Logic or MainStage. While I have have plenty of options/resources, again I miss the immediacy of "just playing". I'll take your Stage 4 course when it's ready to help guide my decision and $6k purchase.
@@trstack I get what you are saying here. "Just Playing" is not to be underestimated! Making good progress on the course. I have the entire synth section done, along with some other important areas. Still on track for release in early summer.
I recently upgraded to a Stage 4 from a Stage 2 EX. At this time I’m in the progress of recreating all the programs.
It’s a hassle, but it’s worth it because some songs sound waaayy better.
I miss the “Preset II” function in the Organ Section, though
Thanks for your comment @martinjmusic I have recently discovered the sample Nylon Guitar 2, which is newly improved and available for the Nord Stage 4. Wow, what a difference! The new stereo samples within the Nord sample library do sound way better.
As always, thank you for your tutorials.
The manual process of programming from scratch has been true from the NS1 to the NS2 to the NS3 and now the NS4. Synth sound design takes time - and each iteration has its own synth. Happily, the organ and piano sections are relatively simple to recreate.
I’m curious as to why the piano memory has stayed the same as the NS3 - and hope loading sounds is faster on the NS4 than on previous models.
Hello @jpag57 and thanks for your observations here. Completely agree. As far as adding more memory, it may have something to do with the operating system's limitation with how much total memory it can access versus a financial decision? For example, they happily added more memory in the synth section and also increased the polyphony. Yet, they didn't increase the memory in the piano section, perhaps because it's not logistically feasible to do so? I really don't know for sure, but that's a guess as to why they didn't expand it. My dream would be this:
4 GB Piano Memory
2 GB Synth Memory
1000 Program locations
Song Mode
4 Synth Layers
2 Dedicated External Layers
"A man can dream..." 🤔 In the meantime, we make use of what they provided and find workarounds where possible.
@@MyKeysToMusic The flexibility of the Nord Stages have turned this former multi keyboardist into a one and done.
@@jpag57 Well said Jean-Pierre! I hear that story quite a bit. The Stages bring it all! 🎹
For me this is a good thing, the needing to do it again part, i only play for myself atm.
Im just upgrading for the shiny bits, had a piano 5, got the stage 3 and now i want the 4, i can barely play but its really fun to try and learn and fool around for fun on a stage, my livingrooms needs a stage 4, getting one later this summer
@nhaze8173 I don't mind doing it again either. It helps solidify the skills. FYI, I should have the course done by this summer too, so if you're looking for online education for your Nord keyboard (Stage 4), you know where to find me.
It's been 7 months since this video was released and still there are many sounds in the Sample Library 3.0 that aren't compatible with the Piano 5 nor Stage 4.
@borispradel1037 You are correct. In fact, they just released a major OS update/fix so perhaps that's where their focus has been? They also recently released a "soft upright" piano - which feels like we are more than covered in this area since we have the "felt upright" already. To me, that time and energy would have perhaps been better spent on beefing up the Sample Library 4.0. It's unclear at this point what plans (if any) they have for additional samples in the library 4.0. Of course, I don't make the decisions over there, nor do we have visibility into the projects they have going on. Maybe they have a separate team on samples? Hard to say. But the fact remains that it's been a while and not much has been done to add to the Sample 4.0 library as far as I can tell. Thanks for your observation and highlight in this area.
Great helpful video. I Finally bought a stage4 so i am starting from scratch anyway (never had a 3) What would you suggest for future ; write down all the settings you use on paper for a future model cause it seems nord are never going to entertain forwards or backwards compatibility.
@wilkopiano CONGRATS on your NS4 decision, and welcome to the club of dedicated and passionate Nord keyboardists and musicians. You bring up a great question here. Ideally, we want to ask, beg, support, and wait for the generous people that have built the "Nord File Viewer" to do this for the NS4 board as well. Maybe by the time you are ready to upgrade, they will have built one. If not them, this is something I could potentially rally around. The Nord File viewer s best described by looking at my video for it here: ruclips.net/video/1vgHlBPLeH0/видео.html
@wilkopiano I forgot to mention, be on the lookout for my upcoming master class course for the Nord Stage 4 keyboard available on my main website: www.MyKeysToMusic.com In the meantime, if you are new to synthesis and beginning at ground zero, I have a free course called "Synthesizer Fundamentals" also available on my website to get you started with your training wheels. After that, you can check out my free course on how to "Master the Nord Sample Editor," which will guide you on everything you need to know about how to create your own samples for any Nord keyboard that supports them. There I share my favorite techniques if you are also interested in the world of sampling which has also just opened up for you now that you are starting your journey with the Nord Stage 4. Hey, don't forget to tell your partner and employer that "the late nights are about to begin!!" as you lose yourself in your board while exploring... 😎
Hi Mark, one question which is driving me crazy 😂 I’ve just bought the new NS4 and I’m trying to recreate some programs previously stored in my ns3. now, in the Synth section I’m trying to recreate the dual OSC with the "Xfade" (in the ns3 that was the name of rameter of the 2nd OSC) in the 2 OSC (set to 8ve - Multi Saw 8ve). How the hell can I adjust the xfade between the 2 OSC? I’m getting crazy 😂 thanks in advance
Hello @MrAlessandrobizzarri
Unfortunately, there are not a lot of "mix" configurations on the NS4 (or the Wave 2) for that matter. For most things, you'll need to incorporate another layer and do your mix that way (as much as it pains me to have to report that to you). However, with the latest operating system for the NS4 only, there is a new sub-oscillator feature that allows you 3 mix configurations one octave apart. That new feature allows you to apply a sawtooth with either a square, pulse or sine waveform with your option to mix. This configuration allows you a true mix (versus a "detune"). However, the octave spread is fixed, whereas on the NS3, you could pick any semitone from 0-48 as an option against the second oscillator. Sadly, that (what seems like an essential feature) doesn't exist on the NS4. Apparently, that feature never made it into the design spec of the new engine. 😢
@@MyKeysToMusic very thorough explanation, Thanks so so much!!!
@@MrAlessandrobizzarri Happy to help!
@@MrAlessandrobizzarri Happy to help!
@@MyKeysToMusic Let me take advantage of asking you one last thing, if you could help on that too: on the NS3, If I'm not wrong we could use the A-PAN effect to create a fixed pan effect L/R (with the Rate set to 0 and using the Amount knob to set L or R). On the NS4 it seems that this is no longer possible. Is that correct? If so, is there any other way to Work on Pan setting of t he various layers in order to have a deeper stereo texture? I used it a lot on the NS3, it would be great to have it also on the NS4 (maybe it will be possibile with any future OS update?). Thanks so much Mark!
Great channel Marc!
Thank you!
But isnt there an option of saving live mode buttons? There are 8 buttons now would that cover the majority of a gig if used also with scenes?
Yes, there are 8 "Live Mode" slots for you to choose from, and you can reserve these for your go-to "favorite" locations for sounds at a gig. If you're in an 80s cover band, typically, the sounds are so diverse that you need more than 8 locations. But if you're playing in a blues band or something, then the needs go down a bit so long as you have your piano, organ, Rhodes, strings, and brass at the ready. You could probably get by with 8 locations for most any gig, depending on the music/band. Then again if you are performing in a pit orchestra for a musical like Annie or something like that, then you're going to need dozens of patches potentially depending on how many instruments you plan on covering with your board. An iPad or a computer in this situation is looking better and better for managing massive sound lists and complex setups.
I was in a reggae band for years and I was able to get by with about 8 sound setups and that covered us for 3 full sets. Also, with the NS4 you get a lot of layers to play with so for most songs you don't need to change the program and if your setup is simple/straightforward, you could use one program for several sounds. And also with the Nord boards, it's almost expected you're going to be adjusting things on the fly to adjust like drawbars, effect types, filter amounts, volume levels, etc.
well done. I haven't heard that the sound is improved much, so given the extra work to rewrite all the progrmas, I'm hanging at S3 for awhile. If I'm going to rewrite, I'd do it in another brand than Nord.
In some ares, the sound is improved for the NS4 where samples from the Nord Sample Library are presented in stereo (Nylon String Guitar for example), and it can make a notable difference. Having 3 layers allows for some interesting options too that exceed the NS3 especially in the area of the arpeggiator. Yet, as neat and as interesting as those options are, if you’ll never use them on a gig or for a recording, it may not move the needle for you. So hanging on to the NS3 which is already a capable board, is the right option for a lot of people. 👍
Super helpful Video! I'm trying to decide whether to take the plunge. Can you answer this specific question? With NS4 can the organ engine rout to outputs 3 and/or 4 with ALL Effects while the other engines (piano, synth) rout to outputs 1 and/or 2 also with ALL Effects? this was not possible with NS3 or any previous Nord. This is non starter for me and a crucial application for us organ geeks who want to rout the organ to a Leslie or a Vent and have some ambience (reverb, delay) or other effects without sacrificing effects on the other output pairs. Apologies if this seems obvious, but I haven't seen anybody address this specific application after a lot of searching regarding the NS4 and it's output routing.
very interesting - excellent production values -
Thank you @teashea1
Marc, very informative video. I have owned the Stage 3(HP76) version for a couple of years, but things may change. I am using MainStage on my M1 MacBook Pro and love having right now just those "auxiliary" sounds you have mentioned. I use the dedicated "external" section on the NS3 to accomplish via USB to MainStage. I'm finding that I really am loving MainStage as it brings so much to the table and I see everyone from local bands to pro tours using it these days. Would love to see a video on using MainStage concerts to control patch changes on the NS3 (4 if it works). I'm not ready to sell my NS3 yet, but long term goal is to go full MainStage for the cover band I am in for keys, guitar and bass. I know many people aren't there yet including myself, but that is where we are heading I believe.
Hello @tomstech-gear-gadgetreview5827 thanks for your comment and question. MainStage is really the future. Billy Joel's keyboard player went "all MainStage" several years ago. Allow me to share the most interesting 5-part documentary on this very topic, where they go deep on his setup. Be prepared to be impressed! ruclips.net/video/yJfdTgOr8tE/видео.html And although he's all MainStage, he still has his traditional boards doing the work of controlling. So perhaps the NS3 will always have a place in the sun as a controller and backup for your MainStage work.
I think the biggest hurdle with this for most keyboardists is the fact that you now have to "setup up and worry about" a computer. And for some, the "tech" required for that is more than they are willing to take on. Going computer means "switching platforms." In the same way that people never leave a manufacturer's brand because they like the way they do things (think Roland, Korg, Yamaha and Nord). They just don't want to learn something totally new if the reward isn't worth the effort.
One thing is for sure, things are hanging at light speed in the areas of making music, especially when you consider things like AI and all the tools that are coming out for the computer these days.
Stay tuned and we may tackle these topics head on here at some point. Also I have a few (many actually) asking for videos on connecting MainStage with their Nord keyboard. My priority now however, is to make a NS4 Master course so that people who are new to Nord and new to the NS4 have a place they can rest their heads. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insight on this!
@@MyKeysToMusic Marc, you are spot on as usual. I had seen the Billy Joel keyboard videos and that is what brought me to MainStage. I’m already using an Arturia board as second tier to my Nord and that already requires me to bring my MacBook Pro as does or XR18 mixer. I bought an Audio 4C to route the Arturia and the Nord plus our guitar players Arturia keyboard. We are already so dependent on computers and iPads it’s not a huge leap for us. I bring an older MacBook Air as a backup, but thinking about an M1 Mac mini to run a redundant rig like on the Billy Joel tour. My day job is in technology so I have the computer skills, but I get the old school players wanting to stick to their ways. It will be an interesting future. Keep up the excellent work it is appreciated. Tom
Hi Marc,
When are you releasing your Stage 4 course? I purchased the stage 4 partially b/c of your videos and am super excited to get started. I’ve been checking your website every week or two since I bought it back in October.
I know it must take a lot of time to put together, but just know you have one excited customer who is anxious to get purchase. Would love to know when you’re planning on releasing. Thank you so much!
•A•
@Alexanderable Hello Alex and congrats on your Nord Stage 4! It makes me so happy to read these comments and to know you have been looking forward to the course. I'm 3/4 complete the course and will be finishing it up soon. Because I've done so many lessons already, I'm making it available for early adopters here in case you don't want to wait for the official release: www.mykeystomusic.com/courses/master-the-nord-stage-4
You can track my progress in the "version history" lesson once enrolled.
Thanks again for your interest! - Marc 🎹
Even the Nord Stage 4 the pianos and etc in the library sound different because they changed the DAC in the Stage 4. From what I've been told this has happened before in Nord major upgrades when DAC was changed..
Good point! I had to look this up a bit and read about it on the Nord User Forum. I'm glad Nord took the time to pay attention to this.
Honestly other than piano,Rhodes,Wurlitzer,clav, organ, synth leads,and pads (other than custom made samples) what sounds are really great on the Nord? Poly brass synth patches like the “ jump” sound are also useable etc. But how much variation of these sounds are really necessary or even possible with the Nord? Relying exclusively on the stage 3 or 4 or whatever to cover all the necessary sounds in a cover band is not realistic. Like you said if its a blues gig or a gig that just requires the “ bread and butter sounds” the Nord stage can cover that and between the 8 live slots and adjacent program slots quickly accessing them is not a hard task if the user area is setup properly. Trying to do it all with one keyboard with splits and layers and having all the levels set etc. quite frankly is a pain in the butt. A 2 keyboard set up is much easier especially when a keyboard player needs to cover or emulate multiple sounds and having consistent levels in a live situation is imperative. A stage 3 or 4 with something like a Kronos, montage, or motif covers a lot of ground. Or as you stated a laptop full of vst’s and a controller is another way to go. Your presentations on the Nord products are right on the money. I see this variability between the stage 3 and 4 as a huge opportunity for folks like yourself to offer valuable instruction and you should certainly charge for your expertise and hours of invested hard work. A labor of love? Perhaps. But there is a market for consolidated and well organized information. And you are the best at presenting it in a clear and concise manner. I’ll be looking forward to your stage 4 videos. I was silly enough with my finances to actually spend the 4K on a stage 4 compact. The least I can do now is learn it. Cheers.
@danielcolfer4671 Thanks for your wonderful and thoughtful comment! I think we are in agreement here with what you said about a 2 keyboard setup versus a single Nord Stage keyboard. I have a course underway for the Nord Stage 4 which will be available soon for purchase. It will have the same type of training like you see here for the Stage 3. All videos will be in 4K so they will be even higher quality than what's available for the NS3 here on RUclips. There is also a private community where you can post questions or answer questions.
Hey Marc, just a quick question here, but does the Nord Stage 4 have a "Mono Out" option like on the Nord Stage 3?
@elijahhultz The answer is yes and no. There is no "mono" button on the panel anymore. Instead, you assign the outputs to a single channel and use a single cable. After doing that, the keyboard automatically adjusts to a "mono mode" setting. Here is an excerpt directly from the manual about this feature:
*From the Nord Stage 4 Manual*
_In certain scenarios it may be necessary or desired to output all sound coming from the Nord Stage 4 in mono, rather than stereo. To achieve this, make a setting for the Bus being used which uses just a single output channel (1, 2, 3 or 4). When using just one output, piano sounds are optimized for mono and stereo effects are adapted for mono use._
Thank you for this!! Does the file viewer include the values for the morph assigns? I LOVE the Nosferatu 2017 sound but wouldn't know how to recreate the mod wheel. I also love the NS3 Event Horizon so that would be a dealbreaker for me if I couldn't recreate these sounds. (BTW, I followed your advice and I'm almost done with Syntorial--great tool! (I'll probably have to do it again to really get command but I've come a long long way!))
@judyshatkin Sorry for the delay on this comment. As you may have already discovered by now, the answer is absolutely yes, the Nord File Viewer includes and specifies any and all morph assignments. Thanks for working with Syntorial - they just came out with a great update too which I'm excited about getting started with. Keep up the great work!
Great video as usual! So I might be able to transfer or “convert” the custom sample patches I built on the Sample Editor for the Stage 3 for the Stage 4?? That’s the biggie for me. I can always learn how to program basic patches or sounds for the Stage 4 but I spent hours sampling lots of sounds using the Sample Editor for the Stage 3. If I could just transfer those custom samples using the Sound Manager over to the Stage 4, that would be awesome!
Hello @walt686868 long time no speak, and sorry for the delay here. If you built any custom samples, then yes, you can instantly build a version that is compatible with the Nord Stage 4. However, you can't do this via the Nord Sound Manager (yet). It has to be done using the Nor Sample Editor, assuming too that YOU are the one providing the raw wav file that makes up the sample. I assume in the not too distant future, Nord will make it possible to take a Nord Stage 3 sample and have that converted for use on the Nord Stage 4 in the same way they've done this for the Nord Stage 2 upgraded to the Nord Stage 3.
@@MyKeysToMusic thanks for answering!! so the question is, can I just take nsmpproj file that I created and load it into the Stage 4??
@@walt686868 Happy to help! You would open up the nsmpproj which would trigger the Nord Sample Editor application to open. Assuming your Nord Stage 4 is connected and on, you simply click the button that says "Generate and Transfer To Nord." Doing that will automatically export a sample compatible with the 4.0 format as well as install it on your NS4. If you don't have a Nord Stage 4 connected, you can still toggle the default format type by selecting "NSMP 4" under the "Config" button. Then, that same button is listed as "Save." Selecting the Save Button will export the sound to the NS4 Sample 4.0 format in the project folder for later use. Good luck!
⚠Warning: There is a bug today whereby the latest OS that came out yesterday (2023-07-06) isn't compatible with one-shot samples for the NS4. They'll likely have a fix very soon. Don't install the latest OS until that fix comes out.
@@MyKeysToMusic wow, so this basically takes care of the issue on my end. Maybe it’s time to buy a Stage 4!! Thanks again for your very helpful answers. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏😄
@@walt686868 Glad these chats are helpful! There are a few minor additional considerations people have discovered along the way when it comes to differences between the Stage 3 and 4 sounds - specifically in the synth section:
1) There are some oscillator configurations "missing" from the engine that is available on the NS3. And because of this, it requires 2 layers instead of one to pull them off. Things like mixing two waveforms together in a detune situation with variable semitones are not available on the NS4 within a single layer.
2) Although there are 3 types of noise options available on the NS4, you can't mix them in with an existing oscillator unless you introduce another layer.
3) Using the extern option on the NS4 takes a layer away from the synth. On the NS3, the Extern option is entirely independent, and you get 2 Extern options if you consider panels A and B without eating any existing synth layers.
4) The glide amount is calibrated differently on the NS4. The difference is so great that classic sounds like "Nosferatu 2017" on the NS3 cannot be replicated at this time. It's because the glide on the NS4 isn't elongated enough to make those exaggerated glide sounds. Granted, I can count on one hand the number of people that use "Nosferatu 2017" during a gig, if at all, but it's a point worth noting for those passionate sound designers out there.
- Marc
A superb analysis, Marc. I would quite enjoy recreating my synth patches on the NS4 and using the enhanced features of the NW2 engine, but not having the song mode would be a bit of an obstacle needing to be overcome. I feel that the triple sensor technology that the NS4 has would be more advantageous for a true pianist, which I am not (I am more of a "synth-head"!). I love my NS3 for the organs and pianos for gigs where required, and the fact I can create sounds using Arturia software and upload them to the NS3 using Nord Sample Editor. A combination of NS3 plus Nord Wave 2 would cover my needs. I think that Nord have responded well to the desires of their users/the Nord community with the NS4, but maybe I will upgrade the Nord Stage in a few years' time when the Nord Stage 5 comes out!
@MRFThorne Hey Mark! Thanks for your comment and insight. The NS3 does blend many aspects of the Wave 2 with the Stage 3, so in that sense, there is a lot of upside. The Wave 2 is still a bit more powerful in a few areas (impulse and velocity morph and many assignable morph destinations are but a few couple of examples). If you can wait another 5 or 6 years for the Nord Stage 5, then I think you're on to something. I'm sure I'll be in line waiting with you... 🎹
Thanks for your video. A little bit too long . Reprogramming all Sounds from NS3 to NS4 was clear . But eliminating the song mode and increase the price by nearly 25 % is a nogo.
Hello, @johanngeorgkumpfmueller887 - thanks for the comment and feedback. Song mode for those that rely on it in the NS3 is a dealbreaker for upgrading to the NS4. However, more and more people are looking at outside alternatives for song list/setlist management. Yet, in doing that, it is more work for the initial setup. Once done, however, there are some added benefits. Yet, I remain dumbfounded why song mode was not included with the latest version of the Stage. They removed the "set list" function from the Nord Electro 6 as well - so I guess we have a trend. Not sure what the logic was in removing what most see as a basic and essential feature.
The loss of song mode is actually stopping me from buying the Stage 4. I play on alot of concerts with various artist, and I use a multi-keyboard setup(with external FX-units) and the whole rig is controlled very elegantly by my Stage 3. The real problem with “the new way” of doing it is when the artist says 30min before the show, “I want to change the order on the setlis, I want song B to come before song A” Good luck trying to solve this in a quick way on the Stage 4. On the Stage 3 it’s really easy to do, as you can really easily change the order of the setlist. I think to to remove the Song mode from the Stage 4 was a extremely bad descision by Clavia. (As well as the removal of the extern section….)
I completely agree. I always thought nords were marketed as gigging keyboards and now I do not know what the focus is anymore.
The Extern is still available, except that it pulls from exiting synth layers. I agree; it would have been ideal if it was a dedicated section instead. Song mode will be missed...
I think the depth of your approach is quite great. Now I know that I need about 1..2 years to bring my sounds from the NS3 to the NS4 ... On the NS3 I always use panel A and B to EQ 2 organs fine and coarse and often also use one organ panel A or B on outputs 3 and 4 to make bassy and higher sounds sound simultaneously a bit more like a good B3, sometimes with Ventilator II on out 3,4. How could this be achieved most easily on the NS4?
@taileron As you know, the organ on the NS4 can't have separate effects settings. The same goes for outputs. Both organ layers work as a collective and cannot be separated in that way on the NS4. You can, however, determine where the rotary speaker is routed independent of the organs, but that may not help you with what you are trying to do. Sorry, I wish the news would be better.
@@MyKeysToMusic 1000 Thanks for making sure my findings are correct. I'm starting to see more features where the NS4 is inferior to the NS3. But finally the NS4 is vastly superior to the NS3, especially in the output circuit, it is especially with the (e)pianos much less external narrow EQ bands needed to sound perfect on a large PA. The NS4 synth engine also gives quite good organs, especially the somewhat too loud percussion of the B3 sim can now be done by the synth via EQ into the rotary. (thx for this additional tip)
@@taileron that is good to know (about the EQ bands) as that is a big issue for people!
@@MyKeysToMusic Another really great thing about the NS4 using Synth B3 Percussion as an example ... in each synth presets all applied morphs are also stored, if e.g. the organ swell pedal has to be held parallel in level to the synth volume control pedal.
@@taileron Interesting concept and one that I've toyed with a bit, but not to any great extent. Can you let me know what settings you are using to provide the "Synth B3 Percussion" - I'm curious to check that out on this end.
Thank you for this. So let me get this straight - the most used/important feature of my Nord Stage 3 - Song Mode - they did away with? Wow. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that is crazy - hard pass on the Stage 4 for me then...
@lenmusic123 Exactly! There are a LOT of people that said the same thing (hard pass) because of the lack of song mode. No one understood what they were thinking by removing that.
Was it worth the money Mark? Love my stage 3 bit this one is even sooo much more expensive
@mrmartinez4188 Great question. It depends on the person purchasing it and what their needs are. You can get 90% + features with a Nord Stage 3 at quite a bit less. If, however, you want that poly arp, the new and improved samples, and the better, more streamlined workflow, then the NS4 is worth it for sure. The drawbars with lights have also been a BIG help.
How can I survive without my almost 150 songs? Recreate sounds will be a pain in the neck...anyway, thanks a lot for let me know about these seious considerations.
I think you made the right decision. Nord would be smart (if it was possible) to create a "migration option" for people upgrading from the NS3 to the NS4. They would make a LOT more sales that way. There is a growing number of people that refuse to update now that they know all the work involved to do so. Then give us song mode back and we're good to go! I realize these "magic wand" requests are probably harder and less feasible than they seem on the surface. But still, that's a blind spot that would help if Nord could address it somehow.
No song mode is a huge deal breaker for me. It's extremely unfortunate as ordering 50 songs in different lists is no longer possible unless actually rearranging the patch numbers. With Nord usually being the "ultimate live keyboard" due to the button accessibility and ease of use, this decision is extremely questionable in my opinion.
@21pianochris62, you are not alone in that opinion! I'm not sure why this important feature never made the cut. I'll be exploring workarounds on this end, and I look forward to sharing possible options available. Some might be slick, while others might be far more work than it's worth.
are the all the sounds better? sample library 4.0 and all.
@TylerMarletteNY. Hello Tyler. The pianos sound the same to my ears and they draw from the same exact piano library. Of course, a piano through Cathedral Reverb via the NS4 is on another level. So in that aspect, you can take your pianos and do enhancements like that via the effects which is only available on the NS4. However, that alone is not enough to move most people into the far more expensive NS4.
The Samples from the Nord sample library however are a bit of a different story with pros and cons to each. The Nord Sample Library 3 is more vast with years of additions making it a bit more complete. However, many samples are in mono. The Nord Sample library 4 has most of the samples in stereo and they do sound better in some/most situations, but there are less of them. So, you may be longing for some key samples available on the NS3, but not on the NS4 - so do your homework and create a list of things you can't live without and be sure they exist in the NS4 sample library 4.0.
I want to talk about the synth for a minute. The pure synth out of the box sounds a touch better on the NS3 to my ears. Check out my video where I compare the super saw: ruclips.net/video/xSRxyRarnxY/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Yet, at the same time with a little extra effort, you can improve the sound on the NS4 to meet or exceed that of the NS3. I find you have to add a little high-end EQ to most of the sounds to bring out their best. Once you do that however, the synth "sound" is on par (or better) than the NS3. Of course, having that 3rd layer cannot be understated - it makes a big impact.
Now, the arpeggiator capabilities of the Nord Stage 4 is where it leaves the NS3 in the dust. If you have even a little bit of interest in the arpeggiator and what I can do for you, the NS4 is where you want to lean. I'm at a point now where I'm spoiled with what I can do with the Nord Stage 4. Also, the fact that we can assign effects "our heart's content" ends up being a really big deal, especially for complex sounds. Another thing that is important but often completely dismissed by most reviews is the fact that the polyphony is greatly expanded with the Nord Stage 4. It's a little harder to run out of notes now when playing those lush synth parts compared to the NS3.
Within the last month, Nord released an OS update to the Stage 4 giving a new oscillator configuration (Sub oscillators). This one feature alone was like giving us a 5% enhancement in the synth area allowing us to dial in sub oscillators (hearing two oscillators tuned 2 octaves apart.) This now means we no longer need to use an extra layer to produce that same sound. This frees up an entire layer. (Note, you can do this already on the NS3 on a single panel). See my video on Sub oscillators here if you want to see this feature on the NS3: ruclips.net/video/g5BgfYjraUY/видео.htmlfeature=shared
So, in the end are the sounds "so much better" that this one aspect alone can justify the upgrade? No, I don't think so. They quality is so close most wouldn't even notice. Yet, taken as a whole, is it worth opening the wallet and taking a plunge for the NS4? This all depends if the other NS4 features speak to you loudy and you "just gotta have that." Then yes, go for it.
Make sure you order from a retailer that double boxes - I've heard stories of shipping damage when retailers don't do that. Feel free to use my Sweetwater link for the 2 year warrantee as well: bit.ly/Sweetwater_MyKeysToMusic
Hopefully this gives you more to think about and helps move you along with your decision a bit. - Marc
@@MyKeysToMusic Thanks for all the info, I’m gonna give another month or so to see if the 7D is announced and if not I’ll go with a Stage 3
@@TylerMarletteNY Happy to help. You know where to find me if there are more questions...
You do raise a bunch of valid points, but compared to other keyboards, the Nords are pretty easy to re-create programs.
@tanner6871 You are spot on with this assessment. It's easy to lose site of just how easy the Nord boards are to use compared to the complexities of other competing workstations. Sure, other brands offer a lot of bang for the buck, but you have to figure out how to use the thing only to end up using a fourth of what it can do because of the complexities of the setup and the intense menu diving. In the end, having too many options can be just as bad (or worse) than having too few. People can be critical of Nord for what they don't offer, but I believe that is by design to ensure that it's as simple to use as possible. 👍🏻
I did already comment another video about the point: the Súper Saw Waves is a NO problem. Super saw in NS3 are just samples. You can notice how they change from each D# to E. The bright flavor simply disappears, and it repeats with each A and A#.
They basically sampled each C and F#, and you can do the same with NS4 and nord editor.
How interesting! I just listened to the raw SuperSaw just now on the NS3 and to my ears, I can't seem to replicate what you hear on your end. They all seem to be the same brightness to me. Am I missing something? 🤷🏻♂️
@@MyKeysToMusic is really subtle you can notice more in the lower frequencies within C1 and C3. Also you will notice in case you try to sample it … it is the same wave repeating
Got it! Thanks for the information and the tip about sampling this. It’s nice that we have the option in the first place (to sample things on our Nord boards} for those times when you need the exact sound…
Salesman said you can have a set list. Demos show when you add a song / program to that list everything moves up automatically.
And you can save that list of programs. 512 of them. 😊
What don’t I get…?
@johnscott4693 Thanks for your comment and question. Well, I think the word "set list" has different meanings for different people. The distinct advantage of the "song mode" provided by the Nord Stage 3 is the fact that you can select a song, and then you get 5 "song parts" to use and switch to within that song. In order to do that with the Nord Stage 4, you'd have to switch programs which for most is an awkward workflow as it's not a click of a single button. Yes, the new Scenes option on the NS4 takes care of some of that, but in a complex song situation, there is nothing easier than Song Mode to pave the way for a smooth transition between multiple parts back and forth. Now some (most?) musicians are getting by just fine, having never used Song Mode in their life, while others can't live without it. So, for this feature, there is a mixed bag of reactions to it. But you're right; the NS4 has 512 locations to store programs which, for most, should be more than enough. It's just a matter of building the program list like a setlist, either at the top of the list or the bottom. Recently, things were made more accessible with the latest OS too, whereby the NS4 now allows you to filter the program list by alphabet and by category making searching for programs more bearable. Thanks for watching!
@@MyKeysToMusic my understanding of its operation is the workaround. Take Dont stop Believeing. Two broad sounds for most of the number cp80 and synths brass. I mix 4 sounds across my RD700 NX. Then to do the complex solo (mamba etc with two hands) I change the ENTIRE board. So I play key set up 1, Then set up 2 for the solo then up again to 3, and 3 is the same as set up 1.
The massive difference with the Nord (over Roland in both respects) is
A) you can use a foot pedal to move up from key set 1, (4 instruments mixed) to set 2 (2 different instruments mixed) and pedal press up again to to set 3 (which is same a se1).
B) Unlike other keyboards, the sounds don’t stop * when you switch key from Set 1 to set 2 ie seamless way to play that solo and come back again. This is a big issue for me… I can play Lord knows how many solos now just after pressing a foot pedal.
* see what I did there 😉?
@@johnscott4693 Excellent observations and explanation. Yes, the foot pedal capability and seamless transitions is a lethal combo in a live setting. With the Nord, you can also go back a program too instead of going forward to step 3 (which is just like step 1) so long as you use a dual pedal.
@@MyKeysToMusic thanks, wasn’t sure how a single action pedal knows whether to go down a programme instead of up though??? Explain please.
Handy Ideas & workarounds … I’m full of it (my wife Keeps,telling me)
@@johnscott4693 A single pedal can only move programs in one direction or the other (but not both). Your wife seems to be a good partner in keeping you grounded 😉
But it’s the same with Roland … and most I believe.
But with Roland there’s no sharing website.
So bought a NS4 88. Getting next week.
Congrats on your incoming Nord Stage 4!! Well done!! Be prepared for some late nights... Make sure you subscribe to the channel, and you may want to check out my free and paid courses on my main website too if you haven't already: www.MyKeysToMusic.com The upcoming NS4 course is coming out great so far as I've just finished the entire Synth Section as well as the getting started section. In the end, there will be 80+ lessons available this summer. Stay tuned! Don't forget to check out my latest videos featuring the NS4 here on RUclips. Joe Walsh, The Doors, and A Fifth of Beethoven.
@@MyKeysToMusic thx Literally just found your site And on release (1/6/23) I printed the user manual. Page one read. 77 to go …🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@johnscott4693 Have fun learning! There is plenty to unwrap. 👍
Whether to upgrade or not of course is a personal decision. There is no right answer. For me, there is nothing the Stage 4 does that my Stage 3 doesn't. That's simply because of the needs that I require. We as consumers get caught up with new things, the shiny bells and whistles, different ways of carrying out functions, perhaps even better ways like how the the S4 implements effects. But this isn't a keyboard that's set at a modest price point. I also have a Roland RD800 that originally cost around 2400 in 2015. The RD2000 came out a few years later and was marked up to 2500 and had an entirely new sound engine added and still included the engines from the 800 for backward compatibility. Contrast that 100 dollar difference with the Stage 4 that is now 5600 American dollars (88 Key) compared to the 3 that originally cost around 4600. Now if the Nord Stage 4 had super duper improved piano samples that were indistinguishable from the real thing, then perhaps I might be interested but sound wise, the S4 uses the same sample engine and organ model that the 3 has. (I do know that the samples are enhanced). And regarding the upgraded Wave engine replacing the A1Lead engine, I could spend my money better buying a dedicated synth instead of upgrading to an S4. No doubt, the Stage 4 is a great keyboard and if I didn't own a Stage 3, perhaps I would consider such a purchase but considering the price, I'm rather glad I purchased the 3 when I did. Mark, your considerations are spot on and as you point out, the fact that Nord has not created a path to upgrade patches is criminal, perhaps just as criminal as not including a sustain pedal for a board that costs over 5000 bucks!
@ldifalco2010 I agree entirely. It's not that the NS4 is a bad board, the question is whether or not the investment is in line with the feature set relative to the needs of the given musician. This decision becomes all the more harder for someone who already owns an NS3, which is a powerhouse of its own. That and the fact that the "setup" (which for some has taken years) is not trivial. For the person brand new to Nord, it's perhaps a little easier to lean in the direction of the NS4 if that lines up with their overall budget. Thanks for your background and insight on this!!
I have moved from my 3 to the 4 and have improved all my patches, I sadly enjoy programming and sampling so one of the reasons for buying a 4 was its new features. I still have two stage 3's and a Nord wave 2 the stage 4 is a real weapon love it. great video Mark. I do miss song mode however...
@Keyboardnut99 I think your RUclips name says it all. Just want to say again that you have a nice stable of horses! I actually traded one of my Stage 3s for a Nord Piano 5 because I'm likely going to do a course on that one too. I think you've been following the channel for a while, but did you see my "Chariots of Fire" video done on 4 Nord Keyboards? A guy like you might appreciate this level of Nord geekiness: ruclips.net/video/-_bJlgLlutU/видео.html
I use Song mode. I have made a complete Play list... Nord made a bad move by canceling it on the new model.
@stanislavhupian7531 You are not alone in your thoughts on this. I don't know what they were thinking exactly by removing this critical feature.
That is completely insane that Nord doesn’t make it easier to move you programs from one instrument to another. What the hell? How could they not consider this
@fishing4444able I have put some thought into this since the question comes up a lot… I don’t represent the company in that I don’t have a direct in and I’m certainly not part of any decisions they make. But here are some assumptions that I believe which helps me reconcile the question in my mind:
1) I assume that it’s extra effort/expense to program a mechanism to do this. So there is a feasibility aspect to that decision.
2) They may not completely realize or fully appreciate just how many people currently own an NS3 and how making a way to update sounds will help sell the NS4. A lot of people put a pause upgrading for the sole reason that doing so means hours of work reprogramming. Then again, maybe this goes back to #1.
3) Similar to #1 above, there may not be a way to upgrade the programs that maintains their sonic integrity since the synth engines in particular are very different. Attempts to do so would have mixed results I think leaving the door open to criticism that the “migration process doesn’t work” and putting things in a worse situation. Instead, it may simply be easier to let folks do their own reprogramming.
* I’d be curios to know if other brands have a similar challenge when one upgrades from a previous version of a Yamaha, Korg, or Roland synth? If an architecture has been reinvented, then perhaps we have a “You can’t get there from here” kind of situation happening. And these companies are much larger with more economies of scale that could have more impact on the feasibly question in creating an upgrade path if one existed.
So, that’s my 2 cents! In other words, I really don’t know the answer, but I tell myself the above to reconcile it in my brain.
That whole situation is a mess and should not have happened. Really bad design that throws existing consumers under the bus. If you are going to capitalise on a product name and release a v2, you have to supply what you supplied 'before' exactly and 'more' as extra features. The 'before' programmes should be easily ported. The 'more' features are new that did not exist before, so no conversion is required. If you change core features so they are not compatible, it's a new product and should not share the same name.
Nord had two legitimate choices. Either build on top of the existing design, so it is back comapt and capitalise on the Nord Stage product name, or break back compat and make a new keyboard with different sound engine that has a different product name. Nord have acted shady here by creating a new keyboard with an incompatible sound engine and called it Nord Stage. Knowing this, any sensible existing consumer should just stay on the Nord Stage 3. The rogue Nord Stage 4 only suits new consumers. Nord clearly do not support back compat, so if you love your Nord keyboard, stick with it.
@itsjusterthought7941 Thanks for your input here. What you say makes a lot of sense. If these kinds of positions/strategies were to happen in the software world, there would be an uprising on a scale the world has never seen. But I must keep reminding myself this is not the software world; this is a boutique keyboard manufacturer who marches to their own drum (and, based on their history, always has). In their partial defense, I think the naming of the "Stage" line of keyboards has more to do with the "purpose" of the board (to have Organ, Piano, and Synth capabilities and controller features) versus the moving from one board version to another (like you'd have with an upgrade with a piece of software).
That said, it would be great if more consideration would happen related to the idea of migrating sounds/programs from one version to the next. I'm not sure what the answer is or if anything will ever change in the future, but a lot of people have purchased the Stage 3 and a lot of people are not upgrading to the Stage 4 because there is no such thing as an upgrade path from one to the next. As far as pricing goes, I assume they price based on what the market will bear, and the market votes with their wallet one way or the other.
I would place a bet that if they had maintained song mode, had better pricing, and a defined upgrade path from the Stage 3, their sales for the NS4 would go up - perhaps beyond their expectations.
Just purchased a stage 3 88 for 2k, no need to jump to stage 4 for me and spend 4-5k 😂
Nice find! @hillard3367
Sounds like a good deal too! Welcome to the club. There are free and paid courses available on my main web page and extra content on my Patreon page too…
windows electronic cleaning cloths will make your keys sparkle...
This sounds like a good suggestion yet, I never thought about it. I'd be sure there are no "strong chemicals" as part of that equation, however. Want to make sure the keys don't get discolored, but on the panel itself, it might be ok (not including the OLED screens, perhaps).
Also they give you a zillion programs that are all minor variations .. really cumbersome. A drag and super annoying
@fishing4444able With 512 locations available and assuming they want 3/4 programmed for the customer out of the box, overlap is bound to happen. And on a typical gig, there are really only about a dozen “staple sounds” one needs in the first place. Finding that balance of making lots of sounds available while also attempting to make each one completely unique, may be a physics problem. But your observations are spot-on. I don’t know what the solution is when taking in to considerations all these aspects.
HOW do I get pass the fact that a Stage 4 only comes with a 1 year warranty?🫤 Do you have any idea how much post pandemic shipping and repairs will be -should the Stage 4 go down!😵💫 It can’t always happen to the other guy.🫤
If you order through Sweetwater, you automatically get a 2-year warranty. Use my affiliate link here, and you won't pay a dime more, but you can support the channel: bit.ly/Sweetwater_MyKeysToMusic Repairs with Sweetwater (using them as an example) will run you approx $150/hour plus parts. Some repairs you can do yourself (like replacing knobs and side panels). Other, more elaborate repairs like replacing the OLED display, any of the circuit boards, power, or repairing normal wear and tear items like dust under the keys requires that you take the board apart. Some owners do these repairs themselves (assuming the warranty is already expired), while most send it off to a repair center. Wait time is measured in weeks, depending on what it is. Sometimes you are lucky to have to sent to a local repair shop where shipping is not going to add to the time, expense, or complexity.
Generally speaking, Nord boards are built well and built to last. However, issues do (and will) happen from time to time. Some will be cosmetic (like when you go to the gig without a case and you scratch your side panels) - I'm speaking from personal experience here. While other things, like the OLED display suddenly going dark are fewer and far between, but cause an interruption in your world requiring a repair. Be sure to perform your gigs with clean power. Get a personal UPS for your gigs - bad power causes havoc with the Nord boards and this is where a lot of the "big" issues stem from. ruclips.net/video/A3yirLV8fKo/видео.html