Thx great info….my 1911 conversions to Super and Rowland are helped A LOT by using an EGW flat bottom firing pin stop, the extra leverage against the slide at the beginning of the firing event gives the chamber that extra mili-second delay and slows down the slide, it helps to go down on the spring pressure needed for the recoil spring, which is good, as the higher springs slam the slide forward harder on the frame….I also use a recoil buffer, like the one from Wilson Combat, not only to help the frame, but as an spy for me, to see just how much force is hitting back in recoil, by watching that I can tell how to adjust the recoil spring rate…..with a muzzle brake, a 20lbs. spring is possible, and it shoots very nice on the hand, just a solid push….without the brake, it may need a 22-24 lbs spring……but the recoil buffer shows much softer slamming into frame…..another thing that’s essential in my opinion, is a Forged slide lock pin of .200” diameter, EGW and Ed Brown have those, all others are .197”, .198” etc…..they give too much slop in the action and hurt the gun frame a barrel more…..hope that helps….
Great video. I have been using Ramshot Silhouette to develop loads in my lone wolf 9” barrel on my glock 21 frame . I am using Lehigh 120 grain extreme defense FTM copper bullets. I am using a Sprinco guide rod with a 24 pound spring with a Strike Industries shock buffer. 2230 fps so far, with slight primer smear, and a little cratering. That's 1325 fpe. Decided to back off to about 2100 fps. Recoil is about like a .460 rowland, but the muzzle blast is ungodly. I had to back up to about 25 feet to get a reliable reading on the chrono.
The Underwood 45 Super 255 hard cast in a modified Glock 21 is my go to moose and bear country carry gun when I'm out fishing the wilderness. I have 13 + 4 magazines and load 13 Supers, then 4 std .45acp so that the action slows down and the last rounds don't jam when the magazine spring is the weakest. I feel very confident with this load out on my chest.
I’m a fan of the 45 super. I put a 5” Storm Lake barrel on my Glock 21 with a Rowland comp and 24lbs recoil spring. My most powerful load so far is with the 185gr. XTP. Getting in the mid 900 Ft lbs. of energy threw my chronograph. Currently playing with some plated 250gr frontier cmj loads now in standard range brass but all my other developed loads are with the Starline super.
I have lost track of how many loads and powder I have tinkered with over the years. It wasn’t until about a year ago that actually started this project back up with the new Kimber
@@stuckcase7775 I have used the 800X before but I find the Alliant Power Pistol a excellent powder for the 45 super. One of my good ones is a 225 hunter supply hard cast from midway on top of 11.5gr. Power pistol going at 1350 FPS with a SD of 6.9 if you can get your hands on power pistol give it a try. You’ll love it. Meters great. Looking forward to more videos. Tnx.
The only way to handload the 45 Super to the same power levels as the 460 Rowland is to have a similar muzzle brake. The only reason the 460 Rowland's case is 1/16th of an inch longer is to prevent chambering it in a regular 45 Auto. Otherwise both the 45 Super and the 460 Rowland can achieve identcal ballistics.
@@stuckcase7775 Perhaps "mulla" one never knows for sure. However it is mostly a safety factor. It's to prevent chambering a hot loaded round in a standard 45 ACP. the same can't be said about the 45 Super. I shoot both and don't have a dog in that race but I recognize the sound concept behind the 460 Rowland.
Those are powerhouse loads. We made a 45 super carbine with a 12ga insert. Haven't got a deer with it yet. With the 10 inch barrel I am seeing 1750fps with the 185 XTP and 800X powder.
@@stuckcase7775 can you load a 185 gr critical defense bullet and shoot one? and idk if you can put the wound in video. maybe after you break down the deer show just the shoulder ribcage and other shoulder. I'm probably one of the most familiar with deer gun shot wounds. I used to process wild game in the midwest.
Holy shit. I haven’t even watched the video yet. But I just heard you say 14gr of 800-X and 16.5gr of Blue Dot! As a long time 10mm and .45ACP loader, those are HOT!!!
Careful attention to how and when. I did this twenty years ago with a Springfield that didn’t make the cut. A Colt petered out real early so I gave up on it. My son reignited the flame a few years back. Much has changed. The Kimber I have his been exceptional. I utilize 45 Super brass with Rem Large Rifle Primers-they actually seat in that brass unlike standard brass 800x is tier medicine-Blue Dot not far behind
My daily load is 5.6 gr of Titegroup under a 185 gr Devastator--like shooting a 22 compared to my rough stuff-the gun gets changed quite a bit for the hot stuff
@@kirkwells5080 none printed It is done by people who customize their guns and publish on forums usually What are you looking for? What bullet? Powder? Case?
They’re hot. Handful. Been messing with accuracy at longer ranges with the 45 as of lately. Haven’t been making videos. Better weather is here. Might record a range session
20# recoil spring will do for supers---a strong mag spring is also important---anything heavier than that will require modifications to other components to gain reliability.
Others have asked about Longshot and power pistol as well. All getting close to apex for the cartridge. Simply a matter of preference and what I currently have.
I noticed the failure to feed issue was random and frequent on my 460 rowland conversion when shooting 250 grain hardcast loads. I noticed when shooting 45 acp loads or 460 loads with smaller bullets the issue was not present. What i eventually found was the 250 grains were so wide so far out, the side of the bullet would drag the slide stop arm while feeding, causing everything from slide locking open to misfeeds to jams. I gently filed this arm and put a slight radius on it where the contact occured. Now, 1,000 rounds later it has not had a single failure.its also worth noting a 24 lb recoil spring means you must provide more force than that recoil spring in keeping the gun from moving during recoil, or the slide will be slow and short stroking. I use the 20lb spring from my clark kit, as they recommended it for stainless guns. I had timing issues with the 24lb
@@wyojohn5213 I have issues with the 255 gr swc and 215 gr saeco which has a similar meplat. All part of the journey. The 24 lb spring has worked well for me with the TC style bullets. It also has helped reduce the standard deviations in some of the loads. Thanks for your input. Beginning to think I was one of the few messing around with this type of set up.
@@stuckcase7775 It could very well be the shape of the bullet. You may also try to put stiffer magazine springs and see if that improves feeding. Since you already are using a 24 lbs recoil spring, If the problem persists, then you'll definitely know that it's the bullet shape that causes the failures.
8.5 of Power Pistol 250gr Hardcast 22 BHN Tek Coated Glock 21 5.2” KKM @ 1083 fps Fed Nickle 45 ACP Small Primer Pockets Rem 7.5 BR primers My Alaska Trail load
1500+ fps. with 185gr. That is impressive!!! What OAL are you loading on them? I need to get me some 185gr. bullets and test them. What brake are you using on that Kimber? I am using a four port brake ( custom ) and my felt recoil is a bit more than 10mm ( zesty ) but not much more.
I have done extensive testing with Hornady XTP 185 grain loads in my Kimber Target Eclipse 460 rowland. Hodgon CFE is one of the few published load powders, from my testing its a bit too abrupt of a powder. I also test at 8500 feet above sea level. Upper end of moderate loads with this powder cause primer flow. Hot loads give the occasional punctured primer, and shaved primer flow which can clog firing pin recess. The clark custom 460 rowland barrel comes with their compensator threaded on. With this set up recoil from the hottest of loads is less than shooting a ruger sp101 in 357 magnum. With the hornady xtp i find it will penetrate one railroad tie, and 2-3" of the next one. I typically see a perfectly opened hollow point with between one half of a grain and two grains of mass lost. I prefer accurate #7 powder for 460 rowland. I find the hollow point to offer no discernable damage increase over a 250 grain hardcast lead rnfp bullet. I also see my 250 hc loads reaching 1400 fps when i occasionally chronograph them.
@@wyojohn5213 I have been tinkering with a185 gr Lyman Devastator. It has a radical opening and can be pushed like a freight train. Didn’t get a shot at a deer in reasonable distance this year yet. Curious as to how it will do. Only issue with it that I have found is that my lead composition can cause a mouth deformity using the heavy recoil spring. Still shoots accurate and opens like a stick of TNT. Cool thing is if I make the first shot count the next bullet deforming won’t matter!
A comp is a must for the heaviest stuff-anything to add mass to the slide and delay the breach opening Check chamber Flat bottom firing pin stop 26-30 lb main spring Heavier recoils spring-no less than 20lbs Heavy firing pin spring Longshot, power pistol, or IMR 800x
@@ArkansasChainsaw be careful Not every chamber can get ya there Work up slow Watch for signs Primer swipe Case bulge over .479 Dents in cases from ejection issues
@@stuckcase7775 I run a Wolff 28lb recoil spring and 30lb main spring and it runs super and acp just fine but I'm going up to a 34lb main spring and swapping to a Stan Chen SI magwell, if it fires the acp without a problem I'm happy I just want to keep it locked up long enough to get the most out of the velocity on both cartridge, I don't load but I'm very curious about it thinking about getting a .460 Rowland FNX but if super is doing this I'll just swap out the recoil spring and add a comp, dude if you can hit 1600fps with that 185 grainer you are beating .460 which is rated at 1575fps you're practically there.
@@Edmondson_Avenue the heavier spring aids should me with keeping the breech closed but most of that is done by the bullet itself As the pressure build behind the bullet and it is moving forward in the barrel-it is physically impossible for the barrel to unlock The problem arises the mere second that the bullet exits the barrel As that happens all of the energy of the pressure created is placed on the breech face causing the slide to gain momentum rearward Now physics applies and we can begin our quest to control the velocity of the slide My personal opinion-a comp is the ticket Keep your spring rate as low as possible to reduce the forward velocity on return from battery This forward velocity due to a high spring rate can be more detrimental to the gun than the increased pressure from the cartridge Been down this road before Just my opinion Get a really good comp or increase the mass of the slide
In the hand gun world it is. I love the cartridge and use it quite often. Placing a 10 mm TC 175 next to a TC 230 from my super brings some perspective.
Thx great info….my 1911 conversions to Super and Rowland are helped A LOT by using an EGW flat bottom firing pin stop, the extra leverage against the slide at the beginning of the firing event gives the chamber that extra mili-second delay and slows down the slide, it helps to go down on the spring pressure needed for the recoil spring, which is good, as the higher springs slam the slide forward harder on the frame….I also use a recoil buffer, like the one from Wilson Combat, not only to help the frame, but as an spy for me, to see just how much force is hitting back in recoil, by watching that I can tell how to adjust the recoil spring rate…..with a muzzle brake, a 20lbs. spring is possible, and it shoots very nice on the hand, just a solid push….without the brake, it may need a 22-24 lbs spring……but the recoil buffer shows much softer slamming into frame…..another thing that’s essential in my opinion, is a Forged slide lock pin of .200” diameter, EGW and Ed Brown have those, all others are .197”, .198” etc…..they give too much slop in the action and hurt the gun frame a barrel more…..hope that helps….
Great video. I have been using Ramshot Silhouette to develop loads in my lone wolf 9” barrel on my glock 21 frame . I am using Lehigh 120 grain extreme defense FTM copper bullets. I am using a Sprinco guide rod with a 24 pound spring with a Strike Industries shock buffer. 2230 fps so far, with slight primer smear, and a little cratering. That's 1325 fpe. Decided to back off to about 2100 fps. Recoil is about like a .460 rowland, but the muzzle blast is ungodly. I had to back up to about 25 feet to get a reliable reading on the chrono.
Man
Your on it
I’ve been using silhouette with the same bullets and sprinco rod in a Cz-97. I’ve only got them to 1650 fps so far, but it’s only a 4.6” barrel:)
That is wild
The Underwood 45 Super 255 hard cast in a modified Glock 21 is my go to moose and bear country carry gun when I'm out fishing the wilderness. I have 13 + 4 magazines and load 13 Supers, then 4 std .45acp so that the action slows down and the last rounds don't jam when the magazine spring is the weakest. I feel very confident with this load out on my chest.
A man with a plan
Good luck
Thx for the reply
I’m a fan of the 45 super. I put a 5” Storm Lake barrel on my Glock 21 with a Rowland comp and 24lbs recoil spring. My most powerful load so far is with the 185gr. XTP. Getting in the mid 900 Ft lbs. of energy threw my chronograph. Currently playing with some plated 250gr frontier cmj loads now in standard range brass but all my other developed loads are with the Starline super.
I have lost track of how many loads and powder I have tinkered with over the years. It wasn’t until about a year ago that actually started this project back up with the new Kimber
@@stuckcase7775 I have used the 800X before but I find the Alliant Power Pistol a excellent powder for the 45 super. One of my good ones is a 225 hunter supply hard cast from midway on top of 11.5gr. Power pistol going at 1350 FPS with a SD of 6.9 if you can get your hands on power pistol give it a try. You’ll love it. Meters great. Looking forward to more videos. Tnx.
beckrbuy I have every intention of it when my other supplies run out
The only way to handload the 45 Super to the same power levels as the 460 Rowland is to have a similar muzzle brake.
The only reason the 460 Rowland's case is 1/16th of an inch longer is to prevent chambering it in a regular 45 Auto. Otherwise both the 45 Super and the 460 Rowland can achieve identcal ballistics.
No shit
And to also allow for patent rights
Mulla
@@stuckcase7775 Perhaps "mulla" one never knows for sure. However it is mostly a safety factor. It's to prevent chambering a hot loaded round in a standard 45 ACP. the same can't be said about the 45 Super. I shoot both and don't have a dog in that race but I recognize the sound concept behind the 460 Rowland.
Those are powerhouse loads. We made a 45 super carbine with a 12ga insert. Haven't got a deer with it yet. With the 10 inch barrel I am seeing 1750fps with the 185 XTP and 800X powder.
Pls do a gel test on video. And could you load a critical defense 185 gr and shoot gel with it?
@@bobthompson4319 we don't use gelfor testing, just gallon water jugs. But is usually pretty accurate.
@@bobthompson4319 don’t have any gel
Prefer live meat testing-local deer
@@stuckcase7775 can you load a 185 gr critical defense bullet and shoot one? and idk if you can put the wound in video. maybe after you break down the deer show just the shoulder ribcage and other shoulder. I'm probably one of the most familiar with deer gun shot wounds. I used to process wild game in the midwest.
@@bobthompson4319 I cast my own bullets friend
Takes the fun out for me if I dont
Holy shit. I haven’t even watched the video yet. But I just heard you say 14gr of 800-X and 16.5gr of Blue Dot! As a long time 10mm and .45ACP loader, those are HOT!!!
Careful attention to how and when. I did this twenty years ago with a Springfield that didn’t make the cut. A Colt petered out real early so I gave up on it. My son reignited the flame a few years back. Much has changed. The Kimber I have his been exceptional.
I utilize 45 Super brass with Rem Large Rifle Primers-they actually seat in that brass unlike standard brass
800x is tier medicine-Blue Dot not far behind
My daily load is 5.6 gr of Titegroup under a 185 gr Devastator--like shooting a 22 compared to my rough stuff-the gun gets changed quite a bit for the hot stuff
@@stuckcase7775 The only published data I can find for a 10mm or 45 super is a 690 lbs. Where can I find the Hot Stuff?
@@kirkwells5080 none printed
It is done by people who customize their guns and publish on forums usually
What are you looking for? What bullet? Powder? Case?
Have you tried using Ramshot True Blue? Its a slowish burning powder that meters really well. I think it would be perfect for 45 super.
I have not
My Nova has consumed all of my spare time as of lately
Good luck
Wow, when I was a kid 1911 to me was a magnum lol, of course I know it isn't now. Those .45 Supers make me feel like the kid me was not wrong lol.
They’re hot. Handful. Been messing with accuracy at longer ranges with the 45 as of lately. Haven’t been making videos. Better weather is here. Might record a range session
I have a Springfield Armory loaded. What springs do you recommend to be able to shoot 45 super in it?
20# recoil spring will do for supers---a strong mag spring is also important---anything heavier than that will require modifications to other components to gain reliability.
Have you tried CFE Pistol for Super loads?
Not yet
800x fills my bill
Got 3 more pounds before I switch
Others have asked about Longshot and power pistol as well. All getting close to apex for the cartridge. Simply a matter of preference and what I currently have.
How's the felt recoil? Any idea why you were having a few feeding issues? Was it just the shape of the bullets?
The Saeco has a very blunt bullet with a wide meplat. It has had frequent ftfs in all of my mags.
Recoil is stiff as 180 proof shine
I noticed the failure to feed issue was random and frequent on my 460 rowland conversion when shooting 250 grain hardcast loads. I noticed when shooting 45 acp loads or 460 loads with smaller bullets the issue was not present. What i eventually found was the 250 grains were so wide so far out, the side of the bullet would drag the slide stop arm while feeding, causing everything from slide locking open to misfeeds to jams. I gently filed this arm and put a slight radius on it where the contact occured. Now, 1,000 rounds later it has not had a single failure.its also worth noting a 24 lb recoil spring means you must provide more force than that recoil spring in keeping the gun from moving during recoil, or the slide will be slow and short stroking. I use the 20lb spring from my clark kit, as they recommended it for stainless guns. I had timing issues with the 24lb
@@wyojohn5213 I have issues with the 255 gr swc and 215 gr saeco which has a similar meplat. All part of the journey. The 24 lb spring has worked well for me with the TC style bullets. It also has helped reduce the standard deviations in some of the loads. Thanks for your input. Beginning to think I was one of the few messing around with this type of set up.
@@stuckcase7775 It could very well be the shape of the bullet. You may also try to put stiffer magazine springs and see if that improves feeding. Since you already are using a 24 lbs recoil spring, If the problem persists, then you'll definitely know that it's the bullet shape that causes the failures.
I'll stick with my 230g +p Buffalo Bore load. My 44 mag 305g +p HCFP kicks hard enough out of my 3 inch S&W! Lol. Great video.
That load will get it done. The Ol 45 is an ass kicker
At first I thought you were shooting at the square steel plate. Dust stirred up all around it.
Those loads are for real. 460 Rowland power levels. We shot my 10mm and my sons 357 mag that day and they both are tame compared to my 45
Stuck Case That 460 looks like a thumper.
161Sheriff it’s actually a 45-loaded with 45 super brass-to Rowland levels
8.5 of Power Pistol
250gr Hardcast 22 BHN Tek Coated
Glock 21
5.2” KKM @ 1083 fps
Fed Nickle 45 ACP Small Primer Pockets
Rem 7.5 BR primers
My Alaska Trail load
Your cookin with Crisco
1500+ fps. with 185gr. That is impressive!!!
What OAL are you loading on them?
I need to get me some 185gr. bullets and test them.
What brake are you using on that Kimber?
I am using a four port brake ( custom ) and my felt recoil is a bit more than 10mm ( zesty ) but not much more.
It is a Wilson brake. 1.250 is the mark. Heavily crimped. I let the extractor head space.
I have done extensive testing with Hornady XTP 185 grain loads in my Kimber Target Eclipse 460 rowland. Hodgon CFE is one of the few published load powders, from my testing its a bit too abrupt of a powder. I also test at 8500 feet above sea level. Upper end of moderate loads with this powder cause primer flow. Hot loads give the occasional punctured primer, and shaved primer flow which can clog firing pin recess. The clark custom 460 rowland barrel comes with their compensator threaded on. With this set up recoil from the hottest of loads is less than shooting a ruger sp101 in 357 magnum. With the hornady xtp i find it will penetrate one railroad tie, and 2-3" of the next one. I typically see a perfectly opened hollow point with between one half of a grain and two grains of mass lost. I prefer accurate #7 powder for 460 rowland. I find the hollow point to offer no discernable damage increase over a 250 grain hardcast lead rnfp bullet. I also see my 250 hc loads reaching 1400 fps when i occasionally chronograph them.
@@wyojohn5213 I have been tinkering with a185 gr Lyman Devastator. It has a radical opening and can be pushed like a freight train. Didn’t get a shot at a deer in reasonable distance this year yet. Curious as to how it will do. Only issue with it that I have found is that my lead composition can cause a mouth deformity using the heavy recoil spring. Still shoots accurate and opens like a stick of TNT. Cool thing is if I make the first shot count the next bullet deforming won’t matter!
what had to be done to the gun to fire those rounds ? i have a 1911 and want supers now
A comp is a must for the heaviest stuff-anything to add mass to the slide and delay the breach opening Check chamber
Flat bottom firing pin stop
26-30 lb main spring
Heavier recoils spring-no less than 20lbs
Heavy firing pin spring
Longshot, power pistol, or IMR 800x
@@stuckcase7775 thank you for info
@@ArkansasChainsaw be careful
Not every chamber can get ya there
Work up slow
Watch for signs
Primer swipe
Case bulge over .479
Dents in cases from ejection issues
@@stuckcase7775 I run a Wolff 28lb recoil spring and 30lb main spring and it runs super and acp just fine but I'm going up to a 34lb main spring and swapping to a Stan Chen SI magwell, if it fires the acp without a problem I'm happy I just want to keep it locked up long enough to get the most out of the velocity on both cartridge, I don't load but I'm very curious about it thinking about getting a .460 Rowland FNX but if super is doing this I'll just swap out the recoil spring and add a comp, dude if you can hit 1600fps with that 185 grainer you are beating .460 which is rated at 1575fps you're practically there.
@@Edmondson_Avenue the heavier spring aids should me with keeping the breech closed but most of that is done by the bullet itself
As the pressure build behind the bullet and it is moving forward in the barrel-it is physically impossible for the barrel to unlock
The problem arises the mere second that the bullet exits the barrel
As that happens all of the energy of the pressure created is placed on the breech face causing the slide to gain momentum rearward
Now physics applies and we can begin our quest to control the velocity of the slide
My personal opinion-a comp is the ticket
Keep your spring rate as low as possible to reduce the forward velocity on return from battery
This forward velocity due to a high spring rate can be more detrimental to the gun than the increased pressure from the cartridge
Been down this road before
Just my opinion
Get a really good comp or increase the mass of the slide
Pretty stout loads man.
They are rough, especially if you slack your grip even slightly.
Clip? You said clip. Are you kidding me?
I’m old
@@stuckcase7775 lol
He said little 10 mm 😂
In the hand gun world it is. I love the cartridge and use it quite often. Placing a 10 mm TC 175 next to a TC 230 from my super brings some perspective.
@@stuckcase7775 nothing 45 can do that a 10mm can’t do.
@@ronschannel5409 I’ll Agree to an extent. 10 mm doesn’t catapult 275 grainers-still an outstanding cartridge
@@stuckcase7775 but still the 10mm can kill anything the 45 can.speed is power! I still have love for 45 because I own .45 colt.
@@ronschannel5409 can it it cut a 452 diameter entrance hole?
Hilly there! The cows must have shorter legs on one side😷
It requires 15 miles of driving to go 5 here
Stuck Case 😷
Watch out for those Sidehill Wampus Cats.
I have better groups with my Ruger BH .45 Colt 23gr. H110 300gr XTP's
Me too
But it ain’t a self cocker
And the barrel is 2.5” longer
Could you pm me sir. Brett McPherson
I will try
Sorry
I do not have a connection to you other than thru replies on the vid
I had ordered a 24# recoil spring and a comp from Wilson combat. Have brass ordered. Gonna try this super out.
.460 who? Lol
Working on a true 185 gr Super type load right now
185 gr jacketed bullet at 800 ft/lbs
Gonna put it through the chrono tomorrow
@@stuckcase7775 oh wow that's a ton of energy!