After a 25 year hiatus from backpacking, I started back this year at 71 and completed several trips with the GG Crown pack. My first trip topped 44 pounds and still found it comfortable to carry. Since then, I’ve invested in lighter shelter and sleep system and got my weight down to 19.1 pounds on my recent 3 day hike in Arkansas. For me, this pack rocks.
I thru-hiked the AT in '21 with this model and had not a single issue - no rips, tears or breaks of any kind. I've tossed this pack on the ground and used it as a resting support against rocks and trees. It's perfectly durable. My pack weight at the beginning of my thru hike was 30 pounds - often more after a resupply - and I had never experienced discomfort in how it carried. At the time, I was 5' 7", 135 pounds, for reference. As far as the sternum strap goes, it's always been a quick click and go for me. I highly recommend this pack.
I absolutely love this pack, was using the original Crown for years and just got the newer Crown 2 last year. I found it to be one of the most comfortable packs I've ever tried. Still my go to pack 90% of the time. But...I never carry more then 20-25lbs the most. Mostly in the 15-18lb range. The extra space is great for just stuffing your sleeping bag in the bottom without a compression sack. This pack is made more for the lightweight backpacker in mind and the Blaze is similar but designed for heavier loads. Maybe what GG needs to do is update their specs rather then change the pack. Just my 2 cents.
I agree. The pack itself can handle 35lbs. I can actually carry that with this pack reasonably well. That being said, for winter load outs when I know I'll be pushing that weight at times, I usually use my ULA Circuit. The GG Crown is great the rest of the time and the compression on the pack means there is little downside to the 60L capacity.
I am so glad you said that . This my all time favorite back , and it CAN do everything , except winter . heavy loads WELL , IMO !! You can strip this thing down to Zpack weight , have as much space , and the cost is $200 or more less than a Zapck . This " may " be a person size thing . I tried a friends Blast for a 3 day in Coloradao , I hated it . I had trouble getting it to feel anywhere close to good , and it seemed to slide around alot . BTW , I am a BIG Zpack Tent fan , and have two . I guess I need to read some review again . I waited a few months after this design came out to buy one . All the reviews I read , people were talking about how good it rode and stuff . I have a Kelty Redwing 50 L that I hate , but I know two people who love theirs ?! I think this may bea , to each his own . But , I will say this . IF you are on a buget , and want to go light , check this pack out , and remember . The brain/ lid can be removed , as well as the frame sheet . In final . I bought the forest green one , and LOVE the way it looks . Sorry Luke . I do not agree on this one :D Be safe out there folks ... gubs P.S . I guess if GG wanted to do another UL version , and loose some of the roll top .. cool .
I ABSOLUTELY love this pack also. Really the first time I've ever found myself scratching my head to what Luke was saying. Some valid points for certain but all in all....a very VERY good pack! I feel he could've stressed a little more that it would be extremely good for a starter pack or a pack for those who didn't go out on week long trips SEVERAL times a year. I'm 52. Not a thru hiker and never will be. His point about it having too much excess room is right on though. Could've knocked 5 liters off of it. All I know is I could not have been more thrilled with my purchase a year and a half ago. All subjective I guess. Knowing how to set it up......more time to get used to it and dial it in etc. I've been loving it for going on two years now!
Back in 1967 when I went to Philmont Scout Ranch, there were 8 of us Scouts, an Adult and a guide. Our packs were weighed before we took off for 12 days of camping and hiking. The average pack was between 65 to 70 lbs so I am blown away at how light your pack was. We had the stainless steel cook set with pots and pans with lids, plates, and cups. Cast iron dutch oven. Tents with poles and tent pegs. Also water, wash tubs than our clothing and sleeping bags.
Backpackers who want to take light but bulky sleep systems, tarps; whatnot, CAN use the 60-litre capacity. Apparently, the key is to keep the weight at 25-lbs maximum.
How many people are honestly carrying 30-35 pounds, inside of a UL pack? I have not even attempted to lighten my kit and fully stocked with food and water I still am never over 23-24 pounds, and that's with a 5.5 pound wool blanket instead of a sleeping bag.. I really don't think the issue justifies the title, to be honest. If you are looking for an Ultralite pack, why would you be packing 30 pounds into it? Makes no sense. The video review is fine, but I think you did it dirty with the title and thumbnail. Edit: also, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not already do positive review of this pack in the past...? What happened? Edit Edit: Seems the title has changed to something a bit more reasonable...
Some people may buy on the assumption of being able to carry 35 lbs. GG just needs to be upfront on this packs ability to carry a max weight comfortably.
Right. The pack itself can handle that weight. For short carries when water loading it works well. I think that pack it great for people who understand what a lightweight pack with a frame sheet should be used for.
People that do winter camping and thus carry heavier stuff. People that hike in very dry regions and carry lots and lots of water People that carry camera equippment lots of reasons....
@@martinerhard8447 I'm not saying you can't get up there. But this title is really dishonest. This backpack has gone through the gauntlet with many hikers, backpackers and campers. I like Luke - if he has a video on something I want, I always watch it before I buy. But this one just feels dirty, feels like he has recently been on the negative side of some very decent products because he feels obligated to be as critical as possible while he flaunts $1000 Fjallraven products.
From my opinion, if we're talking 15kg+ weight, there is no need for the pack to be UL. There is plenty of heavier packs which provide much better suspension to carry heavy weights. I've got 60 litre pack from Tatonka (Tasmanian Tiger is their military gear subdivision) which weighs 1.6kg and can bring up to 18kg rather comfortably. I've also got Slav (this is Russian company, you've reviewed one of their packs some time ago) 80 litre pack which weighs 2.8kg and can handle up to 25kg of weight comfortably. I definitely think this makes sense to "spend" 0.5-1.5 kilos on a proper suspension when carrying heavy weights. I don't think that inability to carry heavy weight should be considered as a con for an UL pack - I didn't hear of anyone who would call any load heavier than 10 kg UL. Overall, it looks like the major rule for the pack weight should be around 10% of pack's load limit.
Hiked all 2,193 miles of the AT with the older massdrop version of this pack with up to 30lbs in it without an issue. Love this pack, planning on getting the 38L version.
@@vvs3796 yeah and the mass drop version came in green, was only $120, and you could attach the brain of the pack to the removable hipbelt creating a fanny pack. I didn't bring the brain with me on my hike.
I have the pack and love it. Hiked 150 miles on the AT in April with about 30 lbs. fully loaded. Hiked another 100 plus miles in October through the Smokies and pushing 35 lbs. Never had a problem. The pack rode well. I got mine new for $ 90. Best money spent on my gear
Can I ask how you packed your pack? I'm brand new to backpacking and bought this as my first pack and am having trouble to find the best way to fit everything.
@@vinoto have u had any problems with stitching and seams ripping or falling apart? I have that on my pack where belt webbing is attached with one seam onto soft foam. that is just not sufficient enough. for me it s a big design failure.
i feel like the crown vc packs need just a slightly stiffer back board, i use 1/2 inch(it seems a bit thinner though, and is flexible) high density foam that i cut to replace the plastic one and that makes the pack sit way better
Excellent! I've been packing with the original Granite Gear Crown 60 and still use it on a daily basis as a big daypack up here in Alaska. After 10 years of heavy use still going strong. I had to pack out an injured dog on a day hike and was pleasantly surprised the pack held up to a 45 pound load.
You do realize that Susan’s pack developed holes right where she was storing her trekking poles, right? Any reason the trekking pole loops weren’t a better idea?
Luke Thanks for the detailed review. Based on how well constructed this pack was per your two review videos, I purchased and recently tested my Granite Gear Crown 2 60 pack on a six mile hike with only 25 pounds total weight. After just over two miles into the hike, I noticed I had pain develop on my left hip area. The rest of the six mile hike was a very painful experience from the left hip belt wing. The shoulder straps were fine because most of the weight was on the hip belt. The chest strap was difficult to use as you described, but not a deal breaker for me. I liked the 60 liter size in such a light weight pack, no problem there for me, since I just cinch down the compression straps when needed. I called Granite Gear the next working day that I could, and per Natalie's request at Granite Gear, I then sent them pictures of the hip belt. After viewing my pictures and my explanation, they said that something was wrong and offered to replace my entire pack under warranty. They even sent me a return label so I could return my "defective" pack to them so they could examine it closely. Suggestion: Maybe Granite gear needs to eventually offer an optional stronger and stiffer hip belt that we can purchase, if we think we ever need to carry more than 25 pounds in this pack? I have yet to test out the replacement pack they sent me, but Granite Gear customer service so far is excellent. Kudos to Natalie at Granite Gear customer service. Strength and Honor right back at you and Suzy. Keep up the great honest reviews. Thanks
Right. Using anything at its upper limit rating is bound to be less than optimal. Sleeping bags. Light down jackets. The SVEA 123R. My wife's patience...
I have this backpack and I love it. I used to own an Osprey and the Granite Gear pack is way more comfortable. You are correct about the weight issue. I’ve used this pack for over 200 miles on the Appalachian Trail and it has suited me well.
I may have missed it but I think you missed one thing with this pack. They explicitly state that it's max load is in the 30-35 lbs range, so if you go over 25 lbs your mileage is going to vary in terms of comfort. People obviously need to understand this pack is not going to be for them if their base weight is not less than 15 lbs but Granite Gear is relatively up front about this limitation. In terms of other ultralight packs in the same self described load range, ULA Ohm2 and Circuits as an example, it's basically par for the course, including the sag in the bottom you discuss so I am curious as to which ultra light packs you are referencing when you say the Crown is lacking. My experience is using the Crown 2 60 and 38 extensively on multi-day high mileage backpacking trips. Now if Granite Gear was not up front about the load limit I would completely agree with your review. Since they are up front about it I find the review here is a bit off the mark and is not giving the viewer a true picture of the pack. I completely agree with you regarding the Blaze btw. If the viewer can't keep a sub 15 lbs base weight they need to consider the Blaze if they want to stay with Granite Gear products. This is because the Blaze is rated to 50 lbs, unlike the 30-35 lbs of the Crown.
@@indycharlie that's why the Blaze is my winter pack. My Winter load out is definitely heavier, north of 30 lbs, because I will add more insulation, a saw and sometimes a small axe to my load out.
@@johnschmalbach8243 Got ya . I just love the VC 2 , and its mutli-use aspect . For day hikes from camp , I just strip it down . Don't even know it's there with a rain jacket and LW fleece & filter .
I used the Crown 2 60 on the AZ in ‘21. For me it was comfortable to 30 lbs, 30-35 was not the best, and over 35 was not great. The only time I usually hit those weights were the first day after a resupply. Or for a large water carry when I had 10 lbs of water. And they are on sale for $99 currently. You can’t get a pack even remotely this good at that price range.
This pack is basically your regular frameless drybag with an added sheet. If you want it to be comfortable at higher loads you should definitely pack it as a frameless one, and not just as your regular frame backpack.
My Crown2 60 is very comfortable loaded to 30lb with a late fall/early winter loadout. I’ve found that I have to put the heavier stuff a little higher than in my internal frame packs, which isn’t that hard since I carry my tent right near the top (raingear and down jacket above it.) My food bag, stove, and fuel bottle tend to be my heaviest items and they go right under the tent. It’s easily as comfortable as my Osprey Atmos 50 loaded to the same weight. I’ve also found the straps more comfortable than I expected for the amount of padding. The sternum strap buckle would be easier if there was 1-2” of strap on the female half of the buckle to get it away from the shoulder strap. The extended bottom of the pack still puts most the weight in your hips, via the top of your butt as well as the iliac crest. But pack fit and comfort are very subjective, there’s no right or wrong.
So as a super newbie I've got a giant synthetic filled sleeping bag that takes up a lot of room.. so maybe the 60l makes sense for people like me that are slowly cutting weight and size as we can afford it
I’ve been using this pack a years now, it has been holding up well , I go off trail a lot and have been pretty tuff on it , and it has held up very well. I haven’t noticed about the comfort I normally stay under 30 pounds, and it never seemed to bother me. I did remove the frame and used it for a few trips . I put it back in , and will be using it in a few weeks to determine which way I like it best. Your right the chest strap buckle sucks. I’m 60 years old and it is small and I my old eyes have a hard time seeing it , and it doesn’t want to always buckle. I still like the pack and it is my pack in the warmer weather, if I have to carry any weight, I use different pack with bigger straps .
i hiked few miles with it and noticed that stiching starting to fray and rip foam on a belt where webbing is sewn on. sewn with one seam onto soft foam ! load bearing point..that is just crazy. what designers of this pack had in their mind. for me all this modern gear is just a gimmick often. unfortunately.
I see your point. But i love this pack. I started lightening my pack weight over the years. I prefer under 25lbs of gear for a backpacking trip. Anything over i'd rather 4wheel and bring all the comforts. Good video tbough. Thanks for the review.
I have the Granite Gear 38 L pack and I love it. First off if your not a climber or doing some serious winter climber what does anyone need 60L for? I hike in the White Mountains of NH all the time for a few days at a time and 38 L is fine. I never come close to 30 pounds on my back. I was going to get the Zpack instead since I have a lot of their gear but for the money about 100.00 it was a steal. If you take the brain off and the plastic sheet out the pack is about 1.6 lbs. I use a bag from Zpack instead of the brain and put it inside the pack. I saves a couple of ounces. I am sure the Blast is better but for the money you can not go wrong. Don't carry so much crap.
Yep , I agree . Hey , you ever went UP Falling Waters ? That was one of the hardest trails I ever hiked . I was sore for days after , because of all the stepping up .
not many people mention durability issues. belt webbing attached with one seam onto soft foam and thin nylon. it s already comming off on my pack. failure.
I have a question. You did a review of this same pack in the Highland Peat several months ago and gave it a great review. Your only con was the mess fabric over the back area. I purchased that same pack based on your review. Just wondering why you did a second review on the same pack and gave it so many cons this time and the original review is no longer on your RUclips or FB page?
I knew I had seen a positive review of that pack on this channel. Other reviewers have said that they have been able to load it with more than 35 lb and it has been comfortable. In fact, most reviews I've seen of it have been very positive. I've used it only twice since I bought it last year, although I really don't know how heavy it was (maybe around 7 to 9 kg, so not even close to its stated maximum load capacity), but I can tell it was very comfortable. EDIT 1: I found the video, but it is a preview, not a review. EDIT 2: My actual weight those two times must've been around 11-12 kg (my base weight was around 9kg (I don't have UL gear and I carried a heavy tripod and ballhead)), and I was very comfortable.
@@melbeckner4828 Her it is. Though it's a preview from 3 years ago. I have no recollection of a complete review on this channel apart from the one we are commenting on. ruclips.net/video/ok-1JyaICFI/видео.html
This is by far the most inexpensive RELIABLE ultralight pack. Gear princesses just like to complain. Its a perfectly fine pack for getting into ultralight. Edit: i would never take ultralight advice from anyone that carries a handgun while hiking 😂
I used the Drop version of this pack on a thru-hike of the Colorado Trail and had no significant comfort issues until longer water hauls where I was just over about 30 lbs. If I had to do it again with the same gear, I would supplement the shoulder straps with extra padding like the Shoulder Strap Pads from Zpacks. In my experience, when packed correctly the comfort level was closer to 30 lbs than 25 lbs, and when you get above 30 lbs the comfort really goes down significantly. I would not have even tried pushing it to 40 lbs as that would have been miserable. With that said, I think when you carried the 40 lbs also matters....I think if I started at 40 lbs at the beginning, the 30 lbs would feel worse than if I just carried 30 lbs from the beginning as I would still be so fatigued from the 40 lbs. I do agree 100% that with the comfort rating the pack might be better as a 50-55L volume pack, but I'll add that it does compress fairly well to roughly 45L and someone with a lot of high-volume, lower weight gear, such as dyneema, synthetic insulation (maybe allergic to down), a fleece, etc., may appreciate the 60L volume. I never used the lid as the main pack volume was plenty. Supposedly there is a Crown 3 coming soon that is designed to handle a higher-weighted load?
yup the Crown 3 supports an aluminum stay insert and goes to 43 lbs. I’m still looking at this one as 30 lbs is my upper limit with 20-25 lbs being typical!
I love this pack. Got some gossamer gear bottle rockets for it and took the hip belt off. Absolutely love it. Tested out the waterproofing as well in The bed of my truck. Works.
This is the pack i've been using for a while, I probably have around 250 miles in the West Cascades hiking around with this pack. The review is 100% accurate. When I was hiking with around 19lbs of gear it was super comfortable, but as I've started to carry with me multiple lenses and a tripod my weight has gone up to around 28lbs, and you feel it all over. I've settled with leaving some gear at home to keep my weight at 25lbs or going on shorter ventures, but even with the load lifters and shoulder straps set properly the force of the bag points down and in just below your hip. Mine has held up very well though without any holes in the mesh or the nylon. What the hell is going on with that sternum strap buckle. I can never figure out why it doesn't clip in sometimes. I think that maybe the strap beneath it is blocking, but it feels like a hard plastic is getting in the way.
I have this pack and love it. The sternum strap is a bit quirky. The bottom of the pack is irrelevant to me since I put my sleeping bag and clothing in the bottom so it puts most of the weight in the middle of the pack. Blaze 60 looks great for my next pack if my family decides to come I’ll need more load capacity and my wife will use the crown.
I think you are exaggerating the weight recommendation. I find that I’m pretty comfortable up to around 30 ish pounds but if it is any heavier it is only mildly uncomfortable and usually doesn’t last long due to me eating some of my food. Also why would you complain that 60 L is too large with a roll top bag? If it is too big just roll it tighter. If you are going very UL and you roll it down all the way to the frame just remove the frame and roll it further. Or remove your sleeping bag from the stuff sack and let it take up more space. If you plan on doing lightweight backpacking this is an amazing budget option. I found a used one on gear trade for $80 and I’ve loved it. If obviously rather have a $300-400 dollar pack that is more comfortable but if all you need is a pack that will get the job done for lightweight backing this is a good option
Hi all, I have the same issue with the sternum buckle. I've had mine for a year and a half. It's been on about 10 trips and so far I've had no issues with durability. I don't have experience with another similar pack to gauge comfort, but will say that it does seem to tug a bit too much w/ 30lbs in it.
Luke, As an owner of this pack for well over two and a half years and having used it on multiple trips, I agree with 100% of your observations. I've wrestled with comfort issues any time I carry over 20-25 lbs. The shoulder straps dig into my shoulders and the sternum strap clips easily about 50% of the time. I do love the flexibility of it. You are able to remove the waist belt and plastic frame and reduce the weight of the pack to around 1.7 lbs "if you want to use it as a day pack with very light loads."
I have a Granite Gear Blaze 60. I have only used it backpacking on one trip so far but I found it very comfortable with a 30 pound load. The large water bottle pockets are awesome.
I’ve got an Osprey I love, but got this one (passing the osprey to my son) and I absolutely love this pack. I typically weigh out at 25-28# depending on food and it has been very comfortable, durable, and I like it a lot more than my Osprey.
In my experience I agree that it is beat for lighter end loads. I feel even 25lbs is pushing it. You did not mention the flimsy frame sheet. Mine did what some call tacoed very easily. I feel a stiffer sheet would improve it. Thanks Blaze is more expensive and heavier but would probably be a better option for non UL hikers
I have the Older Crown pack. It looks like the key difference is those water pockets? I have to say the water pockets of the crown 1 are the biggest con. That said, I've taken over 30lbs in mine on weekend trips with no comfort issues presenting themselves. The main advantage of that capacity is holding warmer insulation for colder trips.
I have the Crown 2, hiked several hundred miles with it and I love it. With that being said, I think this review is fair. The heaviest load I've ever carried with it is 26lbs and I can see how it would be uncomfortable with 30+lbs.
If you go hiking in winter carrying under 11.5kg, this backpack is perfect. Because you can make your winter gear lighter than 11.5kg if you pay more money, but you will find packing your winter gear under 60L backpack is not that easy.
I bought the gray Drop/GG version for $90 or $100 a few years ago on a holiday sale and love it. My bottle pockets are made of the same stretchy material as the front pocket with a small compression strap across the top you can run inside or outside the pockets. That said, if I were a serious hiker doing through hikes or frequent section hikes, I don't think it would be my choice. I got it because I wanted a lighter pack than my old ILBE and frame packs. I might put in a 5+ mile hike on occasion, but it's usually no more than that, which is why this pack works for me. Thanks for the update, Luke! You guys stay well out there.
I carried 12 kg with the Drop/GG version over 160 km. It took a lot of time to learn to pack and adjust it properly for that weight. Towards the end of the hike it was more or less adequately comfortable. I did like the option of stuffing in my quilt in the bottom and everything on top. The extra space worked for me as I have some bulky equipment (CPAP machine). If you don't fill it up it can be cinched down very tight so no problem with the size.
Great review, Wish it was here a year ago :'(. I bought the backpack because of the great reviews and price, unfortunately it was my first backpack, and I simply don't have the lightweight equipment because it is out of my budget. My loadout is around 12-13 kilos and I quickly found out how uncomfortable it is for long trips (from my experience). Eventually ended up buy another backpack. Keep up the good work, your honest reviews keep others making the same mistakes I did :P
I agree with many other commenters, I LOVE this pack. I hiked ~1200 miles on the Appalachian Trail in this pack, with loads occasionally approaching/exceeding 30 pounds (usually maxing out around mid-low 20s). It worked great for me throughout and I found it super comfortable. I didn't even use the frame sheet.
I agree with you on comfortability at the heavier weights. I have had mine now for 4 years so it has the stretchy water pockets and it is the only backpack I use. I have gotten my base weight down to about 19 pounds for fall hikes in MN and with consumables for 5-7 days I easily hit the 30-35 pound range. I have actually carried 4 liters of water into a dry camp 2 years ago and felt the pain for the whole mile I carried it. My backpack has held up well and I don't baby it. I would buy it again.
I think the way to go is to shrink the size a little, raise that "floor" and to lower their weight rating. Done. At that point it'll be harmonious. If someone wants the Crown, they should be an ultralighter; if they're not an ultralighter, GG has the Blaze for them. I have the Blaze, and I really like it. I got the Blaze because I don't care about ultralighting, and my loads are not always super light either.
Hey Luke…. I have this pack, which was given to me. I’ve used it quite a bit on one night backpacking trips. I was carrying no more than 20-25 lbs. I set out to backpack the Glenwood Horse Trail here in Virginia last week. It’s a 67 mile point to point trip, with a lot of elevation. I started with at least 35 lbs….. What a mistake. Day 3 was 17 miles on a warm day, with elevation gain of about 1200 ft. in a 7 mile stretch. Needless to say, by this point the pack was killing me. It was too much weight and I couldn’t make any adjustments to help it. The pack was pulling down on my shoulders and my back was suffering. I texted a friend and he picked me up. I had covered 47 miles in 3 days. I’ll go back to finish the 20 miles in the Fall. Of course, I won’t need to carry nearly 8 lbs. of food…. Your review was spot on. It’s not made to carry more than 25 lbs. and that might be pushing it. The 60 L. rating should be changed. Thanks for the great review. 👍🏻
Thanks! I was considering this backpack to get more room than I have in my 40L. But if it's not going to carry more weight comfortably, then what's the point?
Hmmm... you rated this pack before and gave it rave reviews. Its still the same pack though? Also, its a UL pack which means its a pack for UL Gear. Alot of the entry level heavier gear you review is not what should be loaded in this pack. Its meant for 60L of UL gear. Base weights of 10-12 for this pack. I personally have this pack and thru-hiked with this pack and love it. Its not perfect, the sternum strap does get annoying but its by far one of the most comfortable packs I have ever owned.
I have one and I agree on all points. I got my total pack weight with water etc. under 20 and it carries pretty well. With all the room in the pack I don't bother with stuff sacks for my sleeping bag. Still, I got a good Black Friday deal on it a couple years ago under $100 for the Massdrop version and it's held up really well.
@@udance4ever At that price it is a good pack for the money. I mostly use an Outdoor Vitals Shadowlite but I still use this when I need a little more room for winter sleeping bags.
This video is nonsense. The pack capacity does not change because you are a tiny man. Where the shoulder straps attach to the pack changes depending whether you buy the short, medium or long torso. So, the pack extending below the straps is not the pack's problem. It's your genetics! I have this pack and it is super comfortable and I've carried it hundreds of miles without any issue. The Crown 2 60L is a favorite pack for through hikers on the AT so go thru-hike the AT and come and let us know if it made the journey or not.
I thru hiked the AT with the Crown 2 and it worked reasonably well. I agree with your weight observations - anything over 25 pounds was painful. On my PCT thru hike I switched to the Granite Gear Blaze. The weight carrying capabilities are amazing. 35 pounds was easy. The frame and materials were much stronger. The downside is that it has a cinch top vs a rolltop and there are too many and too long straps. As a separate observation, I noticed many thru hikers had to ditch their zpack packs as they couldn't carry the load or the frame would break. Good review!
I’ve had this pack since it first released, about 4.5 years. I agree with the weight restrictions. I have good ultralight gear, so weights Iow, but high volume due to using down quilts and coats. I have not had any issues a little scuffs on the materials. The price is a big sales point. Thanks for your review.
The reason why you feel so uncomfortable with this backpack when carrying more than 15 kg is that you place it too high. It should sit on your hips, not your waistline. Your hips should carry the major part of weight not your back. I went twice on two week trails with this backpack through desserts of Jordan and mountain desserts of Israel. I had to carry 5 litres of water daily. The load of my pack was between 15 and 20 kg at all times. I cannot say it was enjoyable but it was as much comfortable as one can imagine in this situation. There are multiple ways to adjust weight in this pack shifting it from shoulders to hips or to waist so you can get rest while on move. The shoulder straps are very wide comparing many other packs I came across. I really don't understand your criticism about comfort of this pack since my experience is totally different.
could you say more about the multiple ways to shift the weight from the shoulders to the hips? I’m planning to get this pack and curious what’s adjustable beside the lift tensioners.
@@udance4ever You can play with main strap tensioners and also top shoulder tensioners which control how close is the pack to your back. You can also place the belt around your hips area and tighten it much lower than you waistline while loosening the top shoulder tensioners. This is very personal and one has to experiment to find comfortable position of the pack. I did Cape Wrath Trail in less than two weeks this summer, some days I did 35-42 km through rough terrain in rough weather. This pack did not cause me any trouble at all. The only thing I can recommend is to fortify its bottom with extra layer of nylon. The material is lightweight and, therefore, easily punctured by gravel and small stones when you put this pack onto the ground while trekking through mountainous area.
I’m not sure I understand the problem with the liter size vs max load weight. Most packs in the 60l range have max loads of 30lbs. Even the arc haul, which claims 40lb max, really will only carry 30lbs comfortably (reviews I’ve read, not personal knowledge). In any case, still seems like a good deal for a weekend warrior.
I have a slightly older version of this pack and still like it but I concur with this review. I think it's great for beginning or very budget minded backpackers, but after a couple seasons, I had dialed in my kit to the point, I needed no where close to a 60 liter pack. In fact, at least for a summer trip, I don't see how anyone could come close to needing 60 liters of space. I've had the same issues with the sternum strap, packed a couple holes in the bottom of the material, but unlike you I find the pack very comfortable. I've never had over 25lbs in it however.
Hi, there is Crown 3 60 as an update of the one you had tested, so I wonder if they have made some improvements on this one. Do you have a plan to review Crown 3 60l so we can see if Granite Gear is a company that listens ?😊
Hey, I just want to say that there is a mistake in the video description. The first part is talking about the Chinese fleece jacket vs the Helikon-Tex Patriot, while the rest is about the pack.
I've been using cousin of this pack from Drop/GG, when it was MassDrop, for $100.00. Side pockets are little shallow than Luke's, but they are adequate with two side compression straps. Usually I pick this pack for heavier load, over 25~35lb. For lighter load, Dan Durston's 40L pack. Contrary to the title, there's more pros than cons on Lucas review, imo.
I have the Drop version of the pack, the X60. At $100 it's a steal but still has the shitty sternum strap buckle 😂. Other huge con is you can't reach your water bottle pockets while wearing it....
Thanks so much Luke for including info on the female side, I got very excited to see short torso length since I have a very difficult time finding good fit, being only 5 foot tall. I see the deal breakers here too. Please continue to offer female info along side when possible this is such a great help to us ladies!
I appreciate the review, obviously everyone has and will have a different experience with different packs. I used the Crown VC 60 on the entire PCT 2,650 miles and still use it in which it’s my favorite pack to date living in the Rockies. I also carried 12 days of food (Pack was well over 40 lbs) in the Sierras and had no issues with comfort. I’ve tried packs from Z-Packs which I didn’t like bc they are not durable (internal frame constantly coming out) honestly didn’t trust their pack - also HMG packs which again are not comfortable for me. I think people should try on different packs and see what works best for them. Again as a thru hiker I will recommend this pack over zpacks and HMG but this opinion will be different depending on your body. I wonder how the Crown VC 60 / 3 will be? Andy
I used this pack a few years ago. I totally agree with your observations. I always wrestled with discomfort. I switched over to the HPG Windrider and never looked back. Less is more.
Honestly Durston Gear's Kakwa 40 is so much better mainly because its 40L with load rating of 20kg so its more optimized than the Arcblast (55L on 15kg which doesn't make a whole lot of sense) So if you want to be that pick i'd try that backpack. Personally I have Crown 2 and its enough for me cause I'm just not going to carry more than 15kg and its cheaper than the arcblast, But I admit it also depends on where you go hiking because carrying water is a big deal in some areas, but in other areas with alpine streams its enough to have a Sawyer squeeze and a 1 liter titanium pot, Even hydration bladder is overkill in some places.
while I’m sure you’ve already found it: there’s a diagram on the website - the top is your C7 and the bottom is your Iliac crest. i don’t have much in terms of hips so finding the bottom was a bit challenging for me at first :)
your review of the Crown 2 fits my opinion of the GG Lutzen 45L. that pack was never a comfortable fit for me. the shoulder straps were terrible on it. and the hip belt was no better. that pack has been sold to a friend of mine and she loves it! on a section hike of the AT last year she had a 35lb load out and said it was comfortable. just goes to show you packs are as subjective as footwear. i now carry a Gossamer Gear Kumo which i've had a 22lb load out in and it was very comfortable.
I have the Drop version of this pack, the X60. With weights under 30#, it’s pretty nice to carry. It cost me $90, shipped, 2 years ago. Best value pack on the market, hands down. If your regular load out is over 30# though, it’s not much fun to haul. I replaced the stock sternum strap with one from another pack, so that wasn’t an issue for me.
I think the lower pack below the belt would only be a problem if you carry heavier items down there. Generally that's the sleeping bag area, which is pretty light. You try to keep heavier items up towards the top of the pack for the best weight distribution. I wouldn't have to worry because I can't stand carrying more than 25 lbs. If I can knock a couple pounds off the pack, that's a big bonus.
Agreed on this. I'm a hammocker, so my TQ & UQ both go into the pack first (inside a waterproof liner). My heaviest set (rated to 20 degrees) are about 3.5 lb combined, but they are bulky, so by the time I load in my other gear, they occupy about the bottom 1/3 of the pack. I previously owned the Drop version of this pack (in long torso, which was too long for me) and the few times I used it, the quilts on the bottom put my clothes and food (the two heaviest items) right above the lumbar support.
Good observation from "Le Vieux Loup" regarding the description. After your trip with Susie in Colorado I was waiting for your review on the packs you both were wearing. I was thinking to buy this pack, so many thanks for the review which helps to make a choice without having to buy them all and test them which would be way to expensive. I like the simplicity of the pack but am especially disappointed on the robustness and design flaw, so I will probably spend a little more money. As always your honest and informative review is much appreciated.
This is an excellent pack. High durability, lightweight, a lid that *yes, you can* use as a belt bag. I have multiple seasons with this pack and I'm not too crazy careful, and this pack is holding up excellent. It's a solid pack that hits well above it's price point. Spot on about comfort being highly related to how you load it. But, with a grain of sense about how to pack and a little experience, that can be reduced substantially. I don't know how rough you have to be with your gear to complain about durability for the price and weight of the GG C260
Luke, I could not wait to return from my overnight fish trip with the Crown 60L I own. I don't remember which of my RUclips friends recommended it but Luke your review is Spot On!! I went to cinch one of the straps and the Chinsy buckle broke off, They do give you extras but now I know why. This is nothing than a day pack as far as I am concerned my 30L Outdoor Products day pack is far more comfortable. I hope Peeps read this , save your money.. Hike On.. Wood Man.
I have the Granite Gear Blaze 60 It is the most comfortable pack I have used on my 50 years of backpacking I was just on a long distance hike I carried 20 kg / 45 lbs very comfortably It was heavy for me but the pack supported the weight comfortably The pack is very similar to the Crown 60 I highly recommend it
love this pack, i've tried alot of other sort of mid grade backpacks Osprey exo 48, 58, Gregory baltoro 65, Gregory Optics 48 and all of them hurt the good ol' hips. but this pack is the most comfortable of all, no hip pain from the waist belt. Granted i've not tried the higher end packs.
The straps ripped off mine carrying 12kg! No more ultralight packs for me. Its how they carry in terms of perceived weight, not actual weigh that counts. Now love Osprey and Fjallraven.
There is a unique way to carry this pack, that I highly recommend. Detach the brain and the hip belt, and wrap the brain around the hip belt, becoming a lumbar pack. This is where I put my heaviest gear. The goal is to have my pack as light as possible, and it is much easier to move not having my torso locked to my hips by a pack.
I believe you can use the lid as a waist belt. You can remove the hip belt and attach it to that. I have the Blaze 60 which is much the same in this regard.
it doesn’t “officially” attach on the Crown 2 (it’s a feature in the Crown 3) - I saw a RUclips video just taking a twist tie to simulate the lumbar pack (which I will definitely try :)
Luke is SPOT ON !! with his review! I just returned yesterday from Eastern Sierras , many miles from trailhead the shoulder strap snapped off the body of the pack !! And im extremely aware of my gear load which was maybe 35 lbs. Im pissed and calling them tomorrow, Monday, Forget about having enough straps for a bear canister, i had to gerry rig extra tie downs. Trust Luke not me, this pack Suxs!!
I'm a very tall guy.. the large bag, ya, after a 6-8 hour hike I feel 2 feet shorter from the non-existent support of the pack, I usually have a 20-25 lb load out anyway, but it still hurts my back and I've gotten a better bag since.
Exactly all the issues I’ve had with this pack… and interestingly enough, I took this pack out for the first time in the lost creek wilderness on the goose creek trail. Awesome backpacking trip but the pack truly disappointed. And, strangely enough, I switched to the Zack’s arc blast. I agree, night and day. This review is one of the best I’ve seen on your channel, thanks Luke!
I just got from a hiking trip and that chest strap is definitely is a problem . And it could use more padding for sure . I try not to carry more than 25 pounds at anytime. But one trip I was loaded down and did notice it was pull heavy on my shoulder straps. On the other hand I’m trying to hike as light as possible and I like this back for cost it’s awesome. Thanks for your videos they’re very informative.
Hi I have this back and agree with a lot of this video. The cons outweigh the negatives. After a few uses mine got a small hole on the left side. The frame is definitely light-gear but it sacrifices comfort. Maybe good for shorter trips.
It would have been interesting for you to compare the Granite Gear Blaze 60. It improves on the Crown 2 in a number of ways including pack weight. I own the Blaze 60, it has replaced my Osprey Atmos and I have been very happy with it.
I tried on this pack just yesterday. The first thing I noticed was how the bottom dropped below the hip belt. Very odd. Second, even with 25 pounds in the store, I found it uncomfortable. That was as far as I got with this pack. No thanks.
After a 25 year hiatus from backpacking, I started back this year at 71 and completed several trips with the GG Crown pack. My first trip topped 44 pounds and still found it comfortable to carry. Since then, I’ve invested in lighter shelter and sleep system and got my weight down to 19.1 pounds on my recent 3 day hike in Arkansas. For me, this pack rocks.
I thru-hiked the AT in '21 with this model and had not a single issue - no rips, tears or breaks of any kind. I've tossed this pack on the ground and used it as a resting support against rocks and trees. It's perfectly durable. My pack weight at the beginning of my thru hike was 30 pounds - often more after a resupply - and I had never experienced discomfort in how it carried. At the time, I was 5' 7", 135 pounds, for reference. As far as the sternum strap goes, it's always been a quick click and go for me. I highly recommend this pack.
I absolutely love this pack, was using the original Crown for years and just got the newer Crown 2 last year. I found it to be one of the most comfortable packs I've ever tried. Still my go to pack 90% of the time. But...I never carry more then 20-25lbs the most. Mostly in the 15-18lb range. The extra space is great for just stuffing your sleeping bag in the bottom without a compression sack. This pack is made more for the lightweight backpacker in mind and the Blaze is similar but designed for heavier loads. Maybe what GG needs to do is update their specs rather then change the pack. Just my 2 cents.
you make good points
I agree. The pack itself can handle 35lbs. I can actually carry that with this pack reasonably well. That being said, for winter load outs when I know I'll be pushing that weight at times, I usually use my ULA Circuit. The GG Crown is great the rest of the time and the compression on the pack means there is little downside to the 60L capacity.
I am so glad you said that . This my all time favorite back , and it CAN do everything , except winter . heavy loads WELL , IMO !! You can strip this thing down to Zpack weight , have as much space , and the cost is $200 or more less than a Zapck . This " may " be a person size thing . I tried a friends Blast for a 3 day in Coloradao , I hated it . I had trouble getting it to feel anywhere close to good , and it seemed to slide around alot . BTW , I am a BIG Zpack Tent fan , and have two . I guess I need to read some review again . I waited a few months after this design came out to buy one . All the reviews I read , people were talking about how good it rode and stuff . I have a Kelty Redwing 50 L that I hate , but I know two people who love theirs ?! I think this may bea , to each his own . But , I will say this . IF you are on a buget , and want to go light , check this pack out , and remember . The brain/ lid can be removed , as well as the frame sheet . In final . I bought the forest green one , and LOVE the way it looks . Sorry Luke . I do not agree on this one :D Be safe out there folks ... gubs P.S . I guess if GG wanted to do another UL version , and loose some of the roll top .. cool .
He says your wrong........
I ABSOLUTELY love this pack also. Really the first time I've ever found myself scratching my head to what Luke was saying. Some valid points for certain but all in all....a very VERY good pack! I feel he could've stressed a little more that it would be extremely good for a starter pack or a pack for those who didn't go out on week long trips SEVERAL times a year. I'm 52. Not a thru hiker and never will be. His point about it having too much excess room is right on though. Could've knocked 5 liters off of it. All I know is I could not have been more thrilled with my purchase a year and a half ago. All subjective I guess. Knowing how to set it up......more time to get used to it and dial it in etc. I've been loving it for going on two years now!
So 3 years ago you reviewed this backpack, and in the title of the video, you called it “super comfortable”. But now it’s not?
The payment ended.
He did just say he maxed the weight out this time around while going UL with it before.
Typical RUclipsr bs
Back in 1967 when I went to Philmont Scout Ranch, there were 8 of us Scouts, an Adult and a guide. Our packs were weighed before we took off for 12 days of camping and hiking. The average pack was between 65 to 70 lbs so I am blown away at how light your pack was. We had the stainless steel cook set with pots and pans with lids, plates, and cups. Cast iron dutch oven. Tents with poles and tent pegs. Also water, wash tubs than our clothing and sleeping bags.
Backpackers who want to take light but bulky sleep systems, tarps; whatnot, CAN use the 60-litre capacity. Apparently, the key is to keep the weight at 25-lbs maximum.
How many people are honestly carrying 30-35 pounds, inside of a UL pack? I have not even attempted to lighten my kit and fully stocked with food and water I still am never over 23-24 pounds, and that's with a 5.5 pound wool blanket instead of a sleeping bag.. I really don't think the issue justifies the title, to be honest. If you are looking for an Ultralite pack, why would you be packing 30 pounds into it? Makes no sense. The video review is fine, but I think you did it dirty with the title and thumbnail.
Edit: also, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not already do positive review of this pack in the past...? What happened?
Edit Edit: Seems the title has changed to something a bit more reasonable...
Exactly! It's a lightweight backpack pushed to the extreme and then saying to avoid it. Don't agree with this review
Some people may buy on the assumption of being able to carry 35 lbs. GG just needs to be upfront on this packs ability to carry a max weight comfortably.
Right. The pack itself can handle that weight. For short carries when water loading it works well. I think that pack it great for people who understand what a lightweight pack with a frame sheet should be used for.
People that do winter camping and thus carry heavier stuff.
People that hike in very dry regions and carry lots and lots of water
People that carry camera equippment
lots of reasons....
@@martinerhard8447 I'm not saying you can't get up there. But this title is really dishonest. This backpack has gone through the gauntlet with many hikers, backpackers and campers. I like Luke - if he has a video on something I want, I always watch it before I buy. But this one just feels dirty, feels like he has recently been on the negative side of some very decent products because he feels obligated to be as critical as possible while he flaunts $1000 Fjallraven products.
From my opinion, if we're talking 15kg+ weight, there is no need for the pack to be UL. There is plenty of heavier packs which provide much better suspension to carry heavy weights. I've got 60 litre pack from Tatonka (Tasmanian Tiger is their military gear subdivision) which weighs 1.6kg and can bring up to 18kg rather comfortably. I've also got Slav (this is Russian company, you've reviewed one of their packs some time ago) 80 litre pack which weighs 2.8kg and can handle up to 25kg of weight comfortably.
I definitely think this makes sense to "spend" 0.5-1.5 kilos on a proper suspension when carrying heavy weights. I don't think that inability to carry heavy weight should be considered as a con for an UL pack - I didn't hear of anyone who would call any load heavier than 10 kg UL.
Overall, it looks like the major rule for the pack weight should be around 10% of pack's load limit.
do you mean 60-70%? (comfort 20-25/35 lb limit)
@@udance4ever no, I meant exactly 10%, e.g. if the load limit is 20 kg, then the empty pack weight up to 2 kg is fine.
Hiked all 2,193 miles of the AT with the older massdrop version of this pack with up to 30lbs in it without an issue. Love this pack, planning on getting the 38L version.
whats the difference with mass drop version,is it only side pockets?
@@vvs3796 yeah and the mass drop version came in green, was only $120, and you could attach the brain of the pack to the removable hipbelt creating a fanny pack. I didn't bring the brain with me on my hike.
I have the pack and love it. Hiked 150 miles on the AT in April with about 30 lbs. fully loaded. Hiked another 100 plus miles in October through the Smokies and pushing 35 lbs. Never had a problem. The pack rode well. I got mine new for $ 90. Best money spent on my gear
Can I ask how you packed your pack? I'm brand new to backpacking and bought this as my first pack and am having trouble to find the best way to fit everything.
Not the same pack but this is the video I used when I first learned to pack.
m.ruclips.net/video/ieuYnO5GSIA/видео.html
@@vinoto have u had any problems with stitching and seams ripping or falling apart? I have that on my pack where belt webbing is attached with one seam onto soft foam. that is just not sufficient enough. for me it s a big design failure.
I've had no issues except when I put close to 40lbs in it and after 10 miles or so I did start to feel it on my shoulders
i feel like the crown vc packs need just a slightly stiffer back board, i use 1/2 inch(it seems a bit thinner though, and is flexible) high density foam that i cut to replace the plastic one and that makes the pack sit way better
Excellent! I've been packing with the original Granite Gear Crown 60 and still use it on a daily basis as a big daypack up here in Alaska.
After 10 years of heavy use still going strong. I had to pack out an injured dog on a day hike and was pleasantly surprised the pack held up to a 45 pound load.
You do realize that Susan’s pack developed holes right where she was storing her trekking poles, right? Any reason the trekking pole loops weren’t a better idea?
Luke Thanks for the detailed review. Based on how well constructed this pack was per your two review videos, I purchased and recently tested my Granite Gear Crown 2 60 pack on a six mile hike with only 25 pounds total weight. After just over two miles into the hike, I noticed I had pain develop on my left hip area. The rest of the six mile hike was a very painful experience from the left hip belt wing. The shoulder straps were fine because most of the weight was on the hip belt. The chest strap was difficult to use as you described, but not a deal breaker for me. I liked the 60 liter size in such a light weight pack, no problem there for me, since I just cinch down the compression straps when needed. I called Granite Gear the next working day that I could, and per Natalie's request at Granite Gear, I then sent them pictures of the hip belt. After viewing my pictures and my explanation, they said that something was wrong and offered to replace my entire pack under warranty. They even sent me a return label so I could return my "defective" pack to them so they could examine it closely. Suggestion: Maybe Granite gear needs to eventually offer an optional stronger and stiffer hip belt that we can purchase, if we think we ever need to carry more than 25 pounds in this pack?
I have yet to test out the replacement pack they sent me, but Granite Gear customer service so far is excellent. Kudos to Natalie at Granite Gear customer service.
Strength and Honor right back at you and Suzy. Keep up the great honest reviews. Thanks
Right. Using anything at its upper limit rating is bound to be less than optimal. Sleeping bags. Light down jackets. The SVEA 123R. My wife's patience...
Never max out your wife’s patience
I have this backpack and I love it. I used to own an Osprey and the Granite Gear pack is way more comfortable. You are correct about the weight issue. I’ve used this pack for over 200 miles on the Appalachian Trail and it has suited me well.
Which Osprey pack?
I may have missed it but I think you missed one thing with this pack. They explicitly state that it's max load is in the 30-35 lbs range, so if you go over 25 lbs your mileage is going to vary in terms of comfort. People obviously need to understand this pack is not going to be for them if their base weight is not less than 15 lbs but Granite Gear is relatively up front about this limitation.
In terms of other ultralight packs in the same self described load range, ULA Ohm2 and Circuits as an example, it's basically par for the course, including the sag in the bottom you discuss so I am curious as to which ultra light packs you are referencing when you say the Crown is lacking. My experience is using the Crown 2 60 and 38 extensively on multi-day high mileage backpacking trips.
Now if Granite Gear was not up front about the load limit I would completely agree with your review. Since they are up front about it I find the review here is a bit off the mark and is not giving the viewer a true picture of the pack.
I completely agree with you regarding the Blaze btw. If the viewer can't keep a sub 15 lbs base weight they need to consider the Blaze if they want to stay with Granite Gear products. This is because the Blaze is rated to 50 lbs, unlike the 30-35 lbs of the Crown.
Yes , but the Blaze weighs a pound more . But I do get your point . I bought a Blaze lasy year , and have never used it ..yet :D
@@indycharlie that's why the Blaze is my winter pack. My Winter load out is definitely heavier, north of 30 lbs, because I will add more insulation, a saw and sometimes a small axe to my load out.
@@johnschmalbach8243 Got ya . I just love the VC 2 , and its mutli-use aspect . For day hikes from camp , I just strip it down . Don't even know it's there with a rain jacket and LW fleece & filter .
I used the Crown 2 60 on the AZ in ‘21. For me it was comfortable to 30 lbs, 30-35 was not the best, and over 35 was not great.
The only time I usually hit those weights were the first day after a resupply. Or for a large water carry when I had 10 lbs of water.
And they are on sale for $99 currently. You can’t get a pack even remotely this good at that price range.
I've got the Crown 2 38L and because the capacity and weight one can carry is restricted, it's pretty awesome for a budget "ultralight" pack.
This pack is basically your regular frameless drybag with an added sheet. If you want it to be comfortable at higher loads you should definitely pack it as a frameless one, and not just as your regular frame backpack.
My Crown2 60 is very comfortable loaded to 30lb with a late fall/early winter loadout. I’ve found that I have to put the heavier stuff a little higher than in my internal frame packs, which isn’t that hard since I carry my tent right near the top (raingear and down jacket above it.) My food bag, stove, and fuel bottle tend to be my heaviest items and they go right under the tent. It’s easily as comfortable as my Osprey Atmos 50 loaded to the same weight.
I’ve also found the straps more comfortable than I expected for the amount of padding. The sternum strap buckle would be easier if there was 1-2” of strap on the female half of the buckle to get it away from the shoulder strap. The extended bottom of the pack still puts most the weight in your hips, via the top of your butt as well as the iliac crest. But pack fit and comfort are very subjective, there’s no right or wrong.
So as a super newbie I've got a giant synthetic filled sleeping bag that takes up a lot of room.. so maybe the 60l makes sense for people like me that are slowly cutting weight and size as we can afford it
Absolutely. There is plenty you can fit into a bag that is not heavy equipment. Extra volume is not equal to heavy weight.
I’ve been using this pack a years now, it has been holding up well , I go off trail a lot and have been pretty tuff on it , and it has held up very well. I haven’t noticed about the comfort I normally stay under 30 pounds, and it never seemed to bother me. I did remove the frame and used it for a few trips . I put it back in , and will be using it in a few weeks to determine which way I like it best. Your right the chest strap buckle sucks. I’m 60 years old and it is small and I my old eyes have a hard time seeing it , and it doesn’t want to always buckle. I still like the pack and it is my pack in the warmer weather, if I have to carry any weight, I use different pack with bigger straps .
i hiked few miles with it and noticed that stiching starting to fray and rip foam on a belt where webbing is sewn on. sewn with one seam onto soft foam ! load bearing point..that is just crazy. what designers of this pack had in their mind. for me all this modern gear is just a gimmick often. unfortunately.
I see your point. But i love this pack. I started lightening my pack weight over the years. I prefer under 25lbs of gear for a backpacking trip. Anything over i'd rather 4wheel and bring all the comforts. Good video tbough. Thanks for the review.
I have the Granite Gear 38 L pack and I love it. First off if your not a climber or doing some serious winter climber what does anyone need 60L for? I hike in the White Mountains of NH all the time for a few days at a time and 38 L is fine. I never come close to 30 pounds on my back. I was going to get the Zpack instead since I have a lot of their gear but for the money about 100.00 it was a steal. If you take the brain off and the plastic sheet out the pack is about 1.6 lbs. I use a bag from Zpack instead of the brain and put it inside the pack. I saves a couple of ounces. I am sure the Blast is better but for the money you can not go wrong. Don't carry so much crap.
Yep , I agree . Hey , you ever went UP Falling Waters ? That was one of the hardest trails I ever hiked . I was sore for days after , because of all the stepping up .
not many people mention durability issues. belt webbing attached with one seam onto soft foam and thin nylon. it s already comming off on my pack. failure.
I have a question. You did a review of this same pack in the Highland Peat several months ago and gave it a great review. Your only con was the mess fabric over the back area. I purchased that same pack based on your review. Just wondering why you did a second review on the same pack and gave it so many cons this time and the original review is no longer on your RUclips or FB page?
I knew I had seen a positive review of that pack on this channel. Other reviewers have said that they have been able to load it with more than 35 lb and it has been comfortable. In fact, most reviews I've seen of it have been very positive. I've used it only twice since I bought it last year, although I really don't know how heavy it was (maybe around 7 to 9 kg, so not even close to its stated maximum load capacity), but I can tell it was very comfortable.
EDIT 1: I found the video, but it is a preview, not a review.
EDIT 2: My actual weight those two times must've been around 11-12 kg (my base weight was around 9kg (I don't have UL gear and I carried a heavy tripod and ballhead)), and I was very comfortable.
@@juansebastiangutierrezlina4786 Please link the original review to this page. I am curious to why such a flip-flop on the review of the same pack.
@@melbeckner4828 Her it is. Though it's a preview from 3 years ago. I have no recollection of a complete review on this channel apart from the one we are commenting on.
ruclips.net/video/ok-1JyaICFI/видео.html
@@juansebastiangutierrezlina4786 " Might " have been the original Crown Vic , and not this newer CV 2 ?!
@@indycharlie It's the 2. At the 1.59 minute mark you can see 'Crown2 60'.
@Luke, Didn't you have an older video saying you loved this Pack????????
This is by far the most inexpensive RELIABLE ultralight pack. Gear princesses just like to complain. Its a perfectly fine pack for getting into ultralight.
Edit: i would never take ultralight advice from anyone that carries a handgun while hiking 😂
I used the Drop version of this pack on a thru-hike of the Colorado Trail and had no significant comfort issues until longer water hauls where I was just over about 30 lbs. If I had to do it again with the same gear, I would supplement the shoulder straps with extra padding like the Shoulder Strap Pads from Zpacks. In my experience, when packed correctly the comfort level was closer to 30 lbs than 25 lbs, and when you get above 30 lbs the comfort really goes down significantly. I would not have even tried pushing it to 40 lbs as that would have been miserable. With that said, I think when you carried the 40 lbs also matters....I think if I started at 40 lbs at the beginning, the 30 lbs would feel worse than if I just carried 30 lbs from the beginning as I would still be so fatigued from the 40 lbs. I do agree 100% that with the comfort rating the pack might be better as a 50-55L volume pack, but I'll add that it does compress fairly well to roughly 45L and someone with a lot of high-volume, lower weight gear, such as dyneema, synthetic insulation (maybe allergic to down), a fleece, etc., may appreciate the 60L volume. I never used the lid as the main pack volume was plenty. Supposedly there is a Crown 3 coming soon that is designed to handle a higher-weighted load?
yup the Crown 3 supports an aluminum stay insert and goes to 43 lbs. I’m still looking at this one as 30 lbs is my upper limit with 20-25 lbs being typical!
I love this pack. Got some gossamer gear bottle rockets for it and took the hip belt off. Absolutely love it. Tested out the waterproofing as well in The bed of my truck. Works.
Agree !!
This is the pack i've been using for a while, I probably have around 250 miles in the West Cascades hiking around with this pack. The review is 100% accurate. When I was hiking with around 19lbs of gear it was super comfortable, but as I've started to carry with me multiple lenses and a tripod my weight has gone up to around 28lbs, and you feel it all over. I've settled with leaving some gear at home to keep my weight at 25lbs or going on shorter ventures, but even with the load lifters and shoulder straps set properly the force of the bag points down and in just below your hip. Mine has held up very well though without any holes in the mesh or the nylon.
What the hell is going on with that sternum strap buckle. I can never figure out why it doesn't clip in sometimes. I think that maybe the strap beneath it is blocking, but it feels like a hard plastic is getting in the way.
I have this pack and love it. The sternum strap is a bit quirky. The bottom of the pack is irrelevant to me since I put my sleeping bag and clothing in the bottom so it puts most of the weight in the middle of the pack. Blaze 60 looks great for my next pack if my family decides to come I’ll need more load capacity and my wife will use the crown.
I think you are exaggerating the weight recommendation. I find that I’m pretty comfortable up to around 30 ish pounds but if it is any heavier it is only mildly uncomfortable and usually doesn’t last long due to me eating some of my food. Also why would you complain that 60 L is too large with a roll top bag? If it is too big just roll it tighter. If you are going very UL and you roll it down all the way to the frame just remove the frame and roll it further. Or remove your sleeping bag from the stuff sack and let it take up more space. If you plan on doing lightweight backpacking this is an amazing budget option. I found a used one on gear trade for $80 and I’ve loved it. If obviously rather have a $300-400 dollar pack that is more comfortable but if all you need is a pack that will get the job done for lightweight backing this is a good option
Hi all, I have the same issue with the sternum buckle. I've had mine for a year and a half. It's been on about 10 trips and so far I've had no issues with durability. I don't have experience with another similar pack to gauge comfort, but will say that it does seem to tug a bit too much w/ 30lbs in it.
Luke,
As an owner of this pack for well over two and a half years and having used it on multiple trips, I agree with 100% of your observations. I've wrestled with comfort issues any time I carry over 20-25 lbs. The shoulder straps dig into my shoulders and the sternum strap clips easily about 50% of the time. I do love the flexibility of it. You are able to remove the waist belt and plastic frame and reduce the weight of the pack to around 1.7 lbs "if you want to use it as a day pack with very light loads."
I have a Granite Gear Blaze 60. I have only used it backpacking on one trip so far but I found it very comfortable with a 30 pound load. The large water bottle pockets are awesome.
I’ve got an Osprey I love, but got this one (passing the osprey to my son) and I absolutely love this pack. I typically weigh out at 25-28# depending on food and it has been very comfortable, durable, and I like it a lot more than my Osprey.
In my experience I agree that it is beat for lighter end loads. I feel even 25lbs is pushing it. You did not mention the flimsy frame sheet. Mine did what some call tacoed very easily. I feel a stiffer sheet would improve it. Thanks Blaze is more expensive and heavier but would probably be a better option for non UL hikers
I have the Older Crown pack. It looks like the key difference is those water pockets? I have to say the water pockets of the crown 1 are the biggest con. That said, I've taken over 30lbs in mine on weekend trips with no comfort issues presenting themselves. The main advantage of that capacity is holding warmer insulation for colder trips.
I have the Crown 2, hiked several hundred miles with it and I love it. With that being said, I think this review is fair. The heaviest load I've ever carried with it is 26lbs and I can see how it would be uncomfortable with 30+lbs.
Hello. Where you able to use a hydration pack? Will the water bag pop? The fitting inside is awkward. Thanks!
If you go hiking in winter carrying under 11.5kg, this backpack is perfect. Because you can make your winter gear lighter than 11.5kg if you pay more money, but you will find packing your winter gear under 60L backpack is not that easy.
Would you recommend Gossamear Mariposa 60 insted?? Or what is the best?
I bought the gray Drop/GG version for $90 or $100 a few years ago on a holiday sale and love it. My bottle pockets are made of the same stretchy material as the front pocket with a small compression strap across the top you can run inside or outside the pockets.
That said, if I were a serious hiker doing through hikes or frequent section hikes, I don't think it would be my choice. I got it because I wanted a lighter pack than my old ILBE and frame packs. I might put in a 5+ mile hike on occasion, but it's usually no more than that, which is why this pack works for me.
Thanks for the update, Luke! You guys stay well out there.
I carried 12 kg with the Drop/GG version over 160 km. It took a lot of time to learn to pack and adjust it properly for that weight. Towards the end of the hike it was more or less adequately comfortable. I did like the option of stuffing in my quilt in the bottom and everything on top. The extra space worked for me as I have some bulky equipment (CPAP machine). If you don't fill it up it can be cinched down very tight so no problem with the size.
Great review, Wish it was here a year ago :'(. I bought the backpack because of the great reviews and price, unfortunately it was my first backpack, and I simply don't have the lightweight equipment because it is out of my budget. My loadout is around 12-13 kilos and I quickly found out how uncomfortable it is for long trips (from my experience). Eventually ended up buy another backpack. Keep up the good work, your honest reviews keep others making the same mistakes I did :P
I agree with many other commenters, I LOVE this pack. I hiked ~1200 miles on the Appalachian Trail in this pack, with loads occasionally approaching/exceeding 30 pounds (usually maxing out around mid-low 20s). It worked great for me throughout and I found it super comfortable. I didn't even use the frame sheet.
I agree with you on comfortability at the heavier weights. I have had mine now for 4 years so it has the stretchy water pockets and it is the only backpack I use. I have gotten my base weight down to about 19 pounds for fall hikes in MN and with consumables for 5-7 days I easily hit the 30-35 pound range. I have actually carried 4 liters of water into a dry camp 2 years ago and felt the pain for the whole mile I carried it. My backpack has held up well and I don't baby it. I would buy it again.
I think the way to go is to shrink the size a little, raise that "floor" and to lower their weight rating. Done. At that point it'll be harmonious. If someone wants the Crown, they should be an ultralighter; if they're not an ultralighter, GG has the Blaze for them. I have the Blaze, and I really like it. I got the Blaze because I don't care about ultralighting, and my loads are not always super light either.
Have crown 38 like it a lot agree 60 is big for the minimalist suspension
Hey Luke…. I have this pack, which was given to me. I’ve used it quite a bit on one night backpacking trips. I was carrying no more than 20-25 lbs.
I set out to backpack the Glenwood Horse Trail here in Virginia last week. It’s a 67 mile point to point trip, with a lot of elevation.
I started with at least 35 lbs….. What a mistake. Day 3 was 17 miles on a warm day, with elevation gain of about 1200 ft. in a 7 mile stretch. Needless to say, by this point the pack was killing me.
It was too much weight and I couldn’t make any adjustments to help it. The pack was pulling down on my shoulders and my back was suffering. I texted a friend and he picked me up. I had covered 47 miles in 3 days. I’ll go back to finish the 20 miles in the Fall. Of course, I won’t need to carry nearly 8 lbs. of food….
Your review was spot on. It’s not made to carry more than 25 lbs. and that might be pushing it. The 60 L. rating should be changed.
Thanks for the great review. 👍🏻
I like using this one but I’m worried my straps are weak. Also I hate not being able to access the bottom of the pack from the side
Thanks! I was considering this backpack to get more room than I have in my 40L. But if it's not going to carry more weight comfortably, then what's the point?
Hmmm... you rated this pack before and gave it rave reviews. Its still the same pack though?
Also, its a UL pack which means its a pack for UL Gear. Alot of the entry level heavier gear you review is not what should be loaded in this pack. Its meant for 60L of UL gear. Base weights of 10-12 for this pack. I personally have this pack and thru-hiked with this pack and love it. Its not perfect, the sternum strap does get annoying but its by far one of the most comfortable packs I have ever owned.
I have one and I agree on all points. I got my total pack weight with water etc. under 20 and it carries pretty well. With all the room in the pack I don't bother with stuff sacks for my sleeping bag. Still, I got a good Black Friday deal on it a couple years ago under $100 for the Massdrop version and it's held up really well.
it’s back at $100 if you’re in the market for the Short torso like I am! this is a no-brainer at this price!
@@udance4ever At that price it is a good pack for the money. I mostly use an Outdoor Vitals Shadowlite but I still use this when I need a little more room for winter sleeping bags.
@@CicadaAppreciationSociety right on! just pulled the trigger - can't wait for Santa 🧑🏼🎄
This video is nonsense. The pack capacity does not change because you are a tiny man. Where the shoulder straps attach to the pack changes depending whether you buy the short, medium or long torso. So, the pack extending below the straps is not the pack's problem. It's your genetics! I have this pack and it is super comfortable and I've carried it hundreds of miles without any issue. The Crown 2 60L is a favorite pack for through hikers on the AT so go thru-hike the AT and come and let us know if it made the journey or not.
Glad I'm not the only person who thought this...
It's a fav pack on the AT where you can get off trail almost every single day and don't have to carry excess weight? Got it.
I thru hiked the AT with the Crown 2 and it worked reasonably well. I agree with your weight observations - anything over 25 pounds was painful. On my PCT thru hike I switched to the Granite Gear Blaze. The weight carrying capabilities are amazing. 35 pounds was easy. The frame and materials were much stronger. The downside is that it has a cinch top vs a rolltop and there are too many and too long straps. As a separate observation, I noticed many thru hikers had to ditch their zpack packs as they couldn't carry the load or the frame would break. Good review!
I appriciate your view on all iteams. I bought the origional Crown back pack and love it and still use it today.
I’ve had this pack since it first released, about 4.5 years. I agree with the weight restrictions. I have good ultralight gear, so weights Iow, but high volume due to using down quilts and coats. I have not had any issues a little scuffs on the materials. The price is a big sales point.
Thanks for your review.
I almost bought this pack, based on your glowing review last time.
The reason why you feel so uncomfortable with this backpack when carrying more than 15 kg is that you place it too high. It should sit on your hips, not your waistline. Your hips should carry the major part of weight not your back. I went twice on two week trails with this backpack through desserts of Jordan and mountain desserts of Israel. I had to carry 5 litres of water daily. The load of my pack was between 15 and 20 kg at all times. I cannot say it was enjoyable but it was as much comfortable as one can imagine in this situation. There are multiple ways to adjust weight in this pack shifting it from shoulders to hips or to waist so you can get rest while on move. The shoulder straps are very wide comparing many other packs I came across. I really don't understand your criticism about comfort of this pack since my experience is totally different.
could you say more about the multiple ways to shift the weight from the shoulders to the hips? I’m planning to get this pack and curious what’s adjustable beside the lift tensioners.
@@udance4ever You can play with main strap tensioners and also top shoulder tensioners which control how close is the pack to your back. You can also place the belt around your hips area and tighten it much lower than you waistline while loosening the top shoulder tensioners. This is very personal and one has to experiment to find comfortable position of the pack. I did Cape Wrath Trail in less than two weeks this summer, some days I did 35-42 km through rough terrain in rough weather. This pack did not cause me any trouble at all. The only thing I can recommend is to fortify its bottom with extra layer of nylon. The material is lightweight and, therefore, easily punctured by gravel and small stones when you put this pack onto the ground while trekking through mountainous area.
I've had this for almost 2 years and it works great for me.
I’m not sure I understand the problem with the liter size vs max load weight. Most packs in the 60l range have max loads of 30lbs. Even the arc haul, which claims 40lb max, really will only carry 30lbs comfortably (reviews I’ve read, not personal knowledge). In any case, still seems like a good deal for a weekend warrior.
I feel like if you have a budget ultralite pack with over 35lbs you may not be doing ultralite.
I have a slightly older version of this pack and still like it but I concur with this review. I think it's great for beginning or very budget minded backpackers, but after a couple seasons, I had dialed in my kit to the point, I needed no where close to a 60 liter pack. In fact, at least for a summer trip, I don't see how anyone could come close to needing 60 liters of space. I've had the same issues with the sternum strap, packed a couple holes in the bottom of the material, but unlike you I find the pack very comfortable. I've never had over 25lbs in it however.
Hi, there is Crown 3 60 as an update of the one you had tested, so I wonder if they have made some improvements on this one. Do you have a plan to review Crown 3 60l so we can see if Granite Gear is a company that listens ?😊
Hey, I just want to say that there is a mistake in the video description. The first part is talking about the Chinese fleece jacket vs the Helikon-Tex Patriot, while the rest is about the pack.
I've been using cousin of this pack from Drop/GG, when it was MassDrop, for $100.00. Side pockets are little shallow than Luke's, but they are adequate with two side compression straps. Usually I pick this pack for heavier load, over 25~35lb. For lighter load, Dan Durston's 40L pack. Contrary to the title, there's more pros than cons on Lucas review, imo.
Absolutely
I have the Drop version of the pack, the X60. At $100 it's a steal but still has the shitty sternum strap buckle 😂. Other huge con is you can't reach your water bottle pockets while wearing it....
Thanks so much Luke for including info on the female side, I got very excited to see short torso length since I have a very difficult time finding good fit, being only 5 foot tall. I see the deal breakers here too. Please continue to offer female info along side when possible this is such a great help to us ladies!
I appreciate the review, obviously everyone has and will have a different experience with different packs. I used the Crown VC 60 on the entire PCT 2,650 miles and still use it in which it’s my favorite pack to date living in the Rockies. I also carried 12 days of food (Pack was well over 40 lbs) in the Sierras and had no issues with comfort. I’ve tried packs from Z-Packs which I didn’t like bc they are not durable (internal frame constantly coming out) honestly didn’t trust their pack - also HMG packs which again are not comfortable for me. I think people should try on different packs and see what works best for them. Again as a thru hiker I will recommend this pack over zpacks and HMG but this opinion will be different depending on your body.
I wonder how the Crown VC 60 / 3 will be?
Andy
I used this pack a few years ago. I totally agree with your observations. I always wrestled with discomfort. I switched over to the HPG Windrider and never looked back. Less is more.
Honestly Durston Gear's Kakwa 40 is so much better mainly because its 40L with load rating of 20kg so its more optimized than the Arcblast (55L on 15kg which doesn't make a whole lot of sense) So if you want to be that pick i'd try that backpack.
Personally I have Crown 2 and its enough for me cause I'm just not going to carry more than 15kg and its cheaper than the arcblast, But I admit it also depends on where you go hiking because carrying water is a big deal in some areas, but in other areas with alpine streams its enough to have a Sawyer squeeze and a 1 liter titanium pot, Even hydration bladder is overkill in some places.
How do they measure the torso? What are the starting points?
while I’m sure you’ve already found it: there’s a diagram on the website - the top is your C7 and the bottom is your Iliac crest. i don’t have much in terms of hips so finding the bottom was a bit challenging for me at first :)
your review of the Crown 2 fits my opinion of the GG Lutzen 45L. that pack was never a comfortable fit for me. the shoulder straps were terrible on it. and the hip belt was no better. that pack has been sold to a friend of mine and she loves it! on a section hike of the AT last year she had a 35lb load out and said it was comfortable. just goes to show you packs are as subjective as footwear. i now carry a Gossamer Gear Kumo which i've had a 22lb load out in and it was very comfortable.
I have the Drop version of this pack, the X60.
With weights under 30#, it’s pretty nice to carry.
It cost me $90, shipped, 2 years ago.
Best value pack on the market, hands down.
If your regular load out is over 30# though, it’s not much fun to haul.
I replaced the stock sternum strap with one from another pack, so that wasn’t an issue for me.
I think the lower pack below the belt would only be a problem if you carry heavier items down there. Generally that's the sleeping bag area, which is pretty light. You try to keep heavier items up towards the top of the pack for the best weight distribution. I wouldn't have to worry because I can't stand carrying more than 25 lbs. If I can knock a couple pounds off the pack, that's a big bonus.
Agreed on this. I'm a hammocker, so my TQ & UQ both go into the pack first (inside a waterproof liner). My heaviest set (rated to 20 degrees) are about 3.5 lb combined, but they are bulky, so by the time I load in my other gear, they occupy about the bottom 1/3 of the pack. I previously owned the Drop version of this pack (in long torso, which was too long for me) and the few times I used it, the quilts on the bottom put my clothes and food (the two heaviest items) right above the lumbar support.
Hell...I have the Vapor Trail 60 (The Crowns little brother) and I can carry 30-35 pounds all day...most comfy pack I've ever owned.
Good observation from "Le Vieux Loup" regarding the description. After your trip with Susie in Colorado I was waiting for your review on the packs you both were wearing. I was thinking to buy this pack, so many thanks for the review which helps to make a choice without having to buy them all and test them which would be way to expensive. I like the simplicity of the pack but am especially disappointed on the robustness and design flaw, so I will probably spend a little more money.
As always your honest and informative review is much appreciated.
This is an excellent pack. High durability, lightweight, a lid that *yes, you can* use as a belt bag. I have multiple seasons with this pack and I'm not too crazy careful, and this pack is holding up excellent. It's a solid pack that hits well above it's price point.
Spot on about comfort being highly related to how you load it. But, with a grain of sense about how to pack and a little experience, that can be reduced substantially.
I don't know how rough you have to be with your gear to complain about durability for the price and weight of the GG C260
Luke, I could not wait to return from my overnight fish trip with the Crown 60L I own. I don't remember which of my RUclips friends recommended it but Luke your review is Spot On!! I went to cinch one of the straps and the Chinsy buckle broke off, They do give you extras but now I know why. This is nothing than a day pack as far as I am concerned my 30L Outdoor Products day pack is far more comfortable. I hope Peeps read this , save your money.. Hike On.. Wood Man.
I have the Granite Gear Blaze 60
It is the most comfortable pack I have used on my 50 years of backpacking
I was just on a long distance hike
I carried 20 kg / 45 lbs very comfortably
It was heavy for me but the pack supported the weight comfortably
The pack is very similar to the Crown 60
I highly recommend it
love this pack, i've tried alot of other sort of mid grade backpacks Osprey exo 48, 58, Gregory baltoro 65, Gregory Optics 48 and all of them hurt the good ol' hips. but this pack is the most comfortable of all, no hip pain from the waist belt. Granted i've not tried the higher end packs.
It worked great for me but it's huge. I use the virga 26 on most of my 1-2 night trips now.
I have a granite gear crossbody bag.
It's actually built quite well.
Very very light to cordura
But is dyneema really actually stronger than the nylon used on this pack? Probably not. It punctures and wears out just the same.
The straps ripped off mine carrying 12kg! No more ultralight packs for me. Its how they carry in terms of perceived weight, not actual weigh that counts. Now love Osprey and Fjallraven.
hello, can i ask where exactly the strap ripped?
The interface onto the main pack.
There is a unique way to carry this pack, that I highly recommend. Detach the brain and the hip belt, and wrap the brain around the hip belt, becoming a lumbar pack. This is where I put my heaviest gear. The goal is to have my pack as light as possible, and it is much easier to move not having my torso locked to my hips by a pack.
I believe you can use the lid as a waist belt. You can remove the hip belt and attach it to that. I have the Blaze 60 which is much the same in this regard.
it doesn’t “officially” attach on the Crown 2 (it’s a feature in the Crown 3) - I saw a RUclips video just taking a twist tie to simulate the lumbar pack (which I will definitely try :)
Luke is SPOT ON !! with his review! I just returned yesterday from Eastern Sierras , many miles from trailhead the shoulder strap snapped off the body of the pack !! And im extremely aware of my gear load which was maybe 35 lbs. Im pissed and calling them tomorrow, Monday, Forget about having enough straps for a bear canister, i had to gerry rig extra tie downs. Trust Luke not me, this pack Suxs!!
I'm a very tall guy.. the large bag, ya, after a 6-8 hour hike I feel 2 feet shorter from the non-existent support of the pack, I usually have a 20-25 lb load out anyway, but it still hurts my back and I've gotten a better bag since.
Exactly all the issues I’ve had with this pack… and interestingly enough, I took this pack out for the first time in the lost creek wilderness on the goose creek trail. Awesome backpacking trip but the pack truly disappointed. And, strangely enough, I switched to the Zack’s arc blast. I agree, night and day. This review is one of the best I’ve seen on your channel, thanks Luke!
I just got from a hiking trip and that chest strap is definitely is a problem . And it could use more padding for sure . I try not to carry more than 25 pounds at anytime. But one trip I was loaded down and did notice it was pull heavy on my shoulder straps. On the other hand I’m trying to hike as light as possible and I like this back for cost it’s awesome. Thanks for your videos they’re very informative.
Hi I have this back and agree with a lot of this video. The cons outweigh the negatives. After a few uses mine got a small hole on the left side. The frame is definitely light-gear but it sacrifices comfort. Maybe good for shorter trips.
I have over 4,500 miles on this pack. Best I have owned and carried to date, bar none.
It would have been interesting for you to compare the Granite Gear Blaze 60. It improves on the Crown 2 in a number of ways including pack weight. I own the Blaze 60, it has replaced my Osprey Atmos and I have been very happy with it.
I tried on this pack just yesterday. The first thing I noticed was how the bottom dropped below the hip belt. Very odd. Second, even with 25 pounds in the store, I found it uncomfortable. That was as far as I got with this pack. No thanks.
I have a Osprey Rook 65 liter pack I really like it was about less then $200 hundred dollars it passed all test that I like it
Also have Rook 65. Bought on sale for a cheap price.
For the sternum steap issues, usually when i have trouble trying to get mine to go into the hole, i just spit on it