Near Miss Over Popham Airfield with a PC12
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- How close is too close? On a flight with Sophie from White Waltham to Popham via Shoreham we had a close call with a Pilatus PC12 as we left Popham whilst they joined in a non standard way. Share your thoughts on whether I am being a drama queen or if this was too close for comfort. Was it an Airprox?
#aviation #flying #pilot #nearmiss
While on a short experience flight out of Welshpool in an R-22,we had a powered glider cross directly in front of us.Same altitude ,probably half a mile away.I was at controls and spotted it before instructor.Never stop looking for taffic guys ,your lives depend on it.
Just reading The Killing Zone again. I am definately improving my look out, not just front and sides but behind. Scanning every 10-15 seconds. Glad you saw and avoided the glider
Chances are the glider had seen you some time before, half a mile is quite distant for a glider so unlikely they'd even have changed course - They regularly fly within 1/4 mile of each other. Lookout is much more a way of life in gliding than something you occasionally do, due to not being in regular radio contact for situational awareness. Many gliding airfields work on the see and avoid principle with no radio calls.
Looking down for other aircraft is really hard. The lower plane mixes in with the ground clutter and really becomes invisible. I'm glad to fly in an ADS-B area and get some assistance from that display.
Totally agree on spotting lower aircraft and strangly nothing showed up on my SkyEcho, or I assume on the PC12's TCAS. I know the aircraft and where it lives so I might ask why we didn't show up.
Hi Chris, The Edmonds are loving the video, and yet more great weather! Nice to see you and Soph from the far side of the world. Stay safe
Love you guys, lovely to see you all and can't wait to go flying in New Zealand
I would say that constitutes an airprox rather than a "That was a bit too close for comfort". The PC12s only saving grace was its speed.
you make a good point. It's hard to know what to do as I don't want to mess up someones career, but I also don't want someone else to be in the path of a PC12 where the cpatain has no regard for those around them.
I guess it ultimately came down to really slack airmanship from the PC-12. Perhaps not an AirProx but they should really know better. Nice video :)
Thank you Alex, I agree with you. Poor professional piloting to not join the airfield overhead and then not to call out your position, basically they just decended into the end of crosswind and the start of downwind, that's how people crash. I know the aircraft and where it's kept so will pop over and ask how they saw things from their side, then share the outcome here.
I used to fly out of Popham a lifetime ago. I knew the south of England like the back of my hand when I was hour building.
I used to love the curved approaches into Popham. Good times....
It's a great airfield, always busy and friendly and still has the same dog leg approach past the petrol station.
That definitely was close! I can’t imagine being that close to a P.C. 12 streaking from the air. I’ve had one chase me down on final, but never had one come across me like that. Great video!
Thanks Russ, it was a bit alarming as it's such a big aircrat in such a small circuit. All safe in the end and I look forward to chatting with the pilot one of these days to compare their view to mine.
My guy is extremely underrated, good work
Thank you, it's fun flying, fun sharing the videos and lovely to have great comments too
Chris, nice video. On the PC-12 joining the pattern, it's hard to tell from the video how close he was. It probably looked much closer in real life. Some questions - did you see him with any kind of EC device? Did he see you? Did he make any radio calls telling you what he was doing, or if he had you in sight? He's able to fly a lot faster on downwind and final, and then come to a very quick stop and get off the runway.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I have SkyEcho running on SkyDemon via bluethooth on my headset, so I get alerts on nearby aircraft. I also have a Garmin trasnponder which was set to Alt on 7000. I didn't hear any alerts but that might be because we were heading away from their path, and then turning onto crosswind, so the system may just not have seen a potential conflict.
The only call he made was to ask the a/g radio if anyone was in the circuit, they said no.....as I was departing downwind I had not made the call as I was still crosswind.
They came within a few hundred feet of us, which in a circuit like Popham, in a PC12, is way too close. They had not seen us and when I asked why they came so close they said that they had been told that there wasn't anyone in the circuit....
My lesson here is if in doubt shout. Next time someone asks if the circuit is busy and a/g says no, I'll come striaght on saying I am currently xwind and departing the circuit downwind at xxxft, then ask what their intentions are, and be clear that they have to give way to us, the circuit traffic.
Poor professional piloting from the PC12 crew, no dount in a rush and that's what gets people killed. Happily it wasn't so close that Sopie or I were put off or overly worried, but not a great way to join a circuit like popham.
That was pretty close. Though I wouldn't consider it a near miss (I've had a few) since you know the guy and he's a "tool" I'd report it anyway.
Did you report to the UK Airprox Board? They will determine the severity by category. It's always worth reporting. They may want to contact the other pilot and request a report for their version of events and whether he was visual with you etc.
Thanks John. I am going to contact the other pilot and chat to them first, then if it was closer than it looked report it.
Was he announcing his position? Sceptics will say that you’ve left the cockpit audio out intentionally…
You're not wrong about sceptics, it smells very fishy I agree. I tried to pull audio from the other cockpit camera but it faced the window so just picked up engine noise.
Popham is an air / ground airfield, the same as Waltham where I learnt to fly and flew from that day. We asked ops what the best departure route was and they asked us to depart downwind. As the PC12 came towards the airfield they asked on the radio "if anyone was in the circuit", the answer was "no" for a/g. We did not announce our position as we were turning onto downwind, and would announce "departing downwind to the north" but didn't get a chance before they decended into a wide crosswind / downwind.
I called them up, asked for their callsign in case I needed to report it, and also asked them why they had decended on top / in front of us. The pilots answer was "we asked on the radio if anyone was in the circuit and they said no". My response was it's an a/g service and up to the pilots to see and be seen, not rely on a/g.
They are professional pilots and know that, they also know they should have joined overhead, made the call, decended deadside, made that call and then joined mid-downwind.....
Ultimately I belive this was a mistake by the PC12 pilot who needlessly put his aircraft and others at risk by not following the publised joining instructions. Having a big, fast aircraft just not negate the need to follow procedures and processes, or just use common sense and good RT. I could go on, but I won't.
Thank you for calling me out on the lack of audio, it's a good call and hopefully my explination goes someway to clarifying what was said and why I was concerend.
Didn't look that close have you not got pilot aware
It was not on top of us, but it was certainly a lot closer than I would be comfortable with, especially as it was a PC12 and not a 152, fast and large.
We have PAW in this aircraft but it did not pick anything up on the PC12 and to be honest it's not the greatest tool in the world. Professional comms and looking out the window would save most near misses, sadly the PC12 pilot didn't bother with either. I know the aircraft, flys from Fairoaks where I fly two other planes, the pilot is a bit of a tool, has had run ins with others both GA and professionals, so I guess we were lucky and whilst no in imediate danger, learning a good lesson. If in doubt get on the radio and state your position to any other traffic that might conflict
It was disconcerting from your POV. The PC12 pilot? Unprofessional. Making a report would determine the category, however it was a borderline for reporting imho - Ive experienced similar with an instructor, 'not a factor but that was close enough'.
Agreed, I have since heard he is a real cowboy and has upset a few pilots. I would not want him flying my kids or me for that matter.