no please try Westminster university for comparison, a student will put you in a room and forget you were there until you walk out an hour later and ask receptionist what is going on 😅
A few months ago, Ollie and Alex went to Mallorca to beat the pros. Alex dehydrated and lost a lot of minerals. The results of the test lab confirm this quite accurate.
Great Video. Don’t compare yourself to the tip of the iceberg and just look on how much fitter you are compared to the average 💪 You two guys really should be proud of that.
Kind of disappointed that they've glossed over Ollie's question of why does Alex burn a lot more calories (+40%!) as a basic metabolic rate? And why does their rate of burning fat:carbs to fuel BMR differ so profoundly? That would've been a very interesting if they'd actually answered that. I'm guessing there's many factors at play. Genetic, pre-adult training, current fitness levels, gut bacteriae (and biome in general)...? That could be another video, probably dr. San Millán could have an inkling about it!
There is a significant portion of that decided by recent diet. The difference could be down to Alex eating a higher carbohydrate breakfast on the day than Oli.
Resting metabolic rate is the term used to describe the energy required to sustain life while awake, but generally resting. The differences between Ollie and Alex’s caloric requirements could be due to their differing age, genetics, body composition, diet, type of physical activity, etc. For example, someone with more muscle mass will most likely have a higher caloric requirement. When looking at substrate utilization. You want to burn around a 50/50 mix of fats and carbohydrates at rest, ideally favoring fats. Many factors can affect the ratio of substrate utilization such as type of physical activity, genetics, body composition, age, diet, etc.
@@bleskiven Exactly. I was part of a study once, where I was provided a specific diet for a period and then tested as they did in the video. High-fat diet for at week resulted in high fat-use at rest and vice versa high-carb diet for a week resulted in high-carb use at rest.
Alex and Ollie - do either of you regularly wear a Garmin or similar smartwatch? How accurate are the health measures on the smart watch to the lab results (especially the VO2 max estimate)?
They are generally accurate to within about 5%. However, the accuracy does drop off significantly if you don't have a good fix on what YOUR personal Maximum Heart Rate is.
When I was young and had hair, and was CAT 4 racing I was 61 ml/kg/min. the guy running the lab was my weight / height and a good runner and cranking out 30% more power than me during that test. I could only hit 380W and now decades later when I go out hammering Strava tells me that I'm only good for 160W over a few hours. Oh how the mighty, or at least I, have fallen :)
As good as these modern apps are, they are nothing more than glorified estimates for most numbers. I'm a 20% cyclist 80% runner, and my "costing a fortune" garmin still says my VO2max is between 30-32 while the actual medical assessment I had 10 months ago said it was 60mkm
For the power curve the all the pause-time is wheighted in.... i.e. 5min at 200W 5 min pause 5min 200W gives you an average of 10min at 133W... This is why your power curve goes down hard for long events, with every stop for a junktion, sight seeing, taking photos or peeing
@most-average-athelete They're not glorified estimates. They're literally estimates. They plug your power and weight into a formula and spit out a VO2 max estimate. Most of the formulas out there will yield a reasonable VO2 max estimate as long as the input data are good.
The calculated zones are mathematical. They’re based on whatever the user plugs into the app. This requires one to actually exercise to the point of exhaustion… or 220-age (men) or 210-age (women). The predicted VO2max is a wild ass guess. At best, it’s based on resting pulse variability. That only gets one so far though. Where a predicted and lab measured VO2max score is the same, mark it down to a happy coincidence. Besides, two lab VO2max tests often result in slightly different readings on different days. Why? We’re not machines.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 We are not machines indeed, however we live in a world of machines that are made specific for us. Wearables' models gather data over prolonged time period, static trainers work with power data - those are different approaches, but valid nevertheless. Question is - still - how applicable for beginners are models derived for pros and vice versa.
garmin vo2max calculations are often within +-3. so you can get a pretty accurate estimate. and if the garmin estimate goes up so does your real vo2max even if the numbers would not match up 100% with a lab test
I wrote this in another comment, I'm gonno shamelessly copy paste it here :) "As good as these modern apps are, they are nothing more than glorified estimates for most numbers. I'm a 20% cyclist 80% runner, and my "costing a fortune" garmin still says my VO2max is between 30-32 while the actual medical assessment I had 10 months ago said it was 60mkm"
Shame the force plate test was brushed under the rug -- as it's something that shows muscular power as a proxy for Type 2 (fast twitch) fibers, which are extremely important to maintain with age, especially in such a Type 1-oriented sport as cycling. You don't want to become that frail 80yr old marathoner who can go on forever but then trips over a curb and breaks a hip.
Super interesting! As a man in his fifties, it makes me at bit envious of this generation and the tools available to them. I remember being tested in 1985, the tests were quite crude by today's standards. We cannot compare ourselves to the pros. The best in the world are gifted people who have the work ethic to make the most of their abilities. Being healthy superior athletes is a tremendous accomplishment for both of you.
Had I known you'd be less than a mile down the road shooting this video, I'd have at least bought you a pint - to help you recover from the test when it was over :) Next time you're in town I would love to show you some of the great riding we have here in Boston's metrowest suburbs!
Interesting and informative! They team went into great detail, so learned a lot. I know Alex skipped over the movement and jump test, but would have loved to understand the results and the detail of the test. Congrats guys on the results and thanks for the video!
AH, a good standing vertical of half your height is good to start off with!! (72in/2 would be 36 inches). However the vast majority of cyclists do not have the kind of training for jumping. Perhaps a Nordic skier or power lifter would do?
Loved that! I’d love to have that kind of test. I don’t think they should be comparing themselves to pros though. It’s fascinating to hear about pro levels, but these fellas are also super impressive. Being at those levels while working, granted for a cycling show.
There are research papers out there with numbers for prime Indurain (right before his hour record) and Froome (3 weeks after his 2015 Tour win, though it's said in the paper that he'd put on 3-4 kg in those 3 weeks, and he would then have a fairly bad time at the Vuelta). You can find them with a google scholar search. Indurain probably had the highest absolute FTP ever recorded, at 505 watts (if I remember correctly), but of course it was a different EPOch. A team of researchers could conceivably convince Pogi or Vingo to get tested, you never know.
Ollie and his progress in the last few years is the best motivation and evidence to almost everyone watching this channel about how they can improve and that their potential is higher than they think. Great video thanks GCN 🙌💪
Awesome, guys! Inspiring. Great to see testing and racing videos in the same time frame. Testing results may also help us compare with the tools each of us may have indi idually.
The VO2max numbers quoted in this video are certainly credible for very fit and trim lads. Whatever differences they have in performance are likely the result of minor physiological differences, like %s of slow vs fast muscle fibre, cycling efficiency etc. Part of the success here is that these guys aren’t carrying unnecessary body fat. But that only accounts for a few points. Their real edge is the result of being fit all of their lives and keeping fit.
We display age-predicted heart rate max on the profile as an educational component. We use the max heart rate they achieved during their VO2max test to calculate their heart rate zones. Typically, we do find a discrepancy between the two, for example Ollie's was higher by 8bpm than age-predicted and Alex's was 5bpm lower than age-predicted.
13:07 Actually Alex there is a way to improve your fitness in just a few days before your race. It involves weights, but not in the traditional sense of weight lifting.
Interesting diffence in far vs carb consumption between Ollie and Alex. I assume part of the explanation of the difference in result when doing that circuit of Mallorca. Ollie..whats your secret?
Interesting. I'd enjoy seeing a follow-up in 6-12 months discussing what steps you took to address your weaknesses and how much you were able to improve your numbers.
Coming back to this video to comment on both Ollie and Alex's anaerobic threshold and VO2 max figures. They are absolutely insane! Your ATs are higher than my VO2 max last year when I was feeling pretty confident in my cycling fitness 😂
I thought Zone 2 as described by Iñigo San Millán as having blood lactate level between 1.7 and 2mmo/L? Please note that different protocols change “VO2max” significantly. Short protocols higher, long protocols lower. Different metabolic cart brands differ in results, as well as chances of operational errors. Oskar Svendsen won the Worlds under-23 TT but quit cycling a few years after. A high VO2max with get you to the start, but not always to the podium.
Also interesting how Alex's Z1 lactate is substantially higher than his baseline and then goes down closer to FatMax as (my assumption) more of it gets used as fuel and cleared. Generally, LT2 is defined by the deflection point on the curve, no longer a fixed value.. even LT1 has been redefined by many labs to use Baseline+1mmol instead of a fixed 2mmol value. Physiology is still often more art than science.
@@veydajar But what is a „deflection point“? Is there a mathematical definition for that? I have looked at my own diagnostic and it is pretty much an exponential curve that dosen have a sharp bend
@@chrisridesbicycles _Inflection_ point -- my bad! You can either find it using a 2nd order derivative if you prefer the math.. or just draw a straight line on the graph from your LT1(ish) to the highest point on the curve (presumably, the end of the test), then look for a point on your lactate curve that is 'furthest' from the line that you just drew. That point will be an _estimate_ of your LT2. Keep in mind, not everyone will have a 'normal' lactate curve -- a lot of newer (less trained) folks may have a flatter curve that rises immediately without a pronounced LT1 dip. To reiterate again -- zones are often (usually, even) not an exact science, even with a full metabolic cart setup we are often dealing with _ranges_ and _estimates_, not precise points. Think of zone borders and even LT1/VT1/AeT and LT2/VT2/AnT as fuzzy and constantly in flux based on things like your hydration status, recovery, and even mood at that particular point in time. Ballpark is often the best we can get, and precise zone cutoffs that the wearables give us is an illusion.
I'd love to have access to a full test like this. Absolutely stellar, fascinating scientific fitness content! I love it and am so glad you followed up with this. Wish I had access to this in Ontario! More please!
What a wonderful resource for everyday athletes. These things have been pretty well restricted to the elite levels prior to this. Why is similar testing not available in the UK?
Very interesting, plenty to think about, especially to get a good stretching and strength exercise routine into the Weedy Weekend Warrior cyclist's week. Thanks Ollie & Alex, well worth the trip across the pond.
I believe both do a 10 mile TT in 20 minutes - 30 mph. From my experience that's semi- pro or local pro. Very impressive if they said in the interview that they average 10-12 hours per week.?
That was a very interesting video. I would like to know how much a complete assessment like that would cost? Also, how will you take this information to improve your riding/training?
Really really interesting! I would love to do this kind of fitness test. Unfortunately jumping on a plane to Boston isn't gonna happen! Any idea if they're planning on opening a UK centre?
I had no idea "sweat analysis" was even a thing but now I'm curious how much salt I'm losing versus the average. I'd bet it's a lot as I can physically see it dried on my arms and legs after a heavy workout!
Very nice of GCN to allow us to see the results. I would recommend keeping the raw results for curiosity many decades from now. Many decades ago as a Lab Rat, Cardio rehab subject, I learned that absolute MVO2 is not the end all. An athlete with 80% MVO2 of 86, could be beaten by an someone who could hold 92% of 72 MVO2 for an hour.(Frank Shorter) I also learned that I could make my MVO2 jump from my usual 68 MVO2, to 76-78 MVO2 with some 3on 2off minute intervals for an hour, for 3-4 weeks, before a competition that I wanted to do well in. Five decades later and 35 pounds over racing weight it would be interesting what kind of results would be seen now?
With Ollies weight from the PeakPower Numbers of 72.5kg, this would put him at a treshold of "only" ~4w/kg (288W) with 65.5ml/min/kg VO2max. This seems low for such a great VO2max and he probably needs to work on efficiency and VLamax. I tought Ollie would be >4.5w/kg from previous videos (suggesting FTP of 325W @68kg a year ago). Nevertheless, great results from both!!
didnt realise you were so old, Ollie. I suspected early to mid 30s. Just think - you will be able to race in the "heritage" category with Si and Dan next year.
Great video. Couple of observations - please correct me if I’m wrong: 1. The sweat and hydration differences between Ollie and Alex seem much greater than I’d expect. What causes this? Is it related to the significant differences in resting metabolic rates? And what does it mean for pre and in-race fuelling and hydration? With differences like this it’s no wonder that it’s really hard to get this right. 2. Alex appears to have similarly high vo2 max to Ollie but lower wingate top end power and lower LT2. Is this training or genetics? 3. The LT2 levels of c.305w for Alex and 288 for Ollie seem low compared with FTP estimates based on say 20 minute tests. Is this the case, and if so why? Regards Leigh Reigate, Surrey.
I'd be really interested in my V02Max. My Garmin tells be that I am currently at 61 with my maximum being 72 last summer when I went to 1000 m above zero for two weeks, and I am unsure how far I can trust these values.
@@HumanPoweredHealth Thanks for the info, that still an 8 hour drive. I was hoping for something in the KC area. I will keep the Minnesota location in mind if I travel up that direction in the future. Follow up question are you open on weekends?
Between this video and Si's crossfit video, its quite apparent that cyclists need to sprinkle in a bit more strength training. Still, very impressive results, boys!
Great Vid!! Very informative. Question.... are Ollie and Alex going to implement any of the training suggestions from the tests? If so, which ones and how?
I’m having a VO2 Max, lactate and Dexa on 19th June. I am a 62 year old runner and I am just intrigued as to what, in particular, my VO2 Max is and my visceral fat. I am having my done at Buckingham New University, which is a bit closer than Boston, I know you have an international audience but could you not have done this in the UK? Precision Hydration offer sweat tests and I might have one at Silverstone which is near me.
the thumbnail has in small white letters in the top right hand corner "ad".. sure , they could've gotten this done in this UK , but the offer from this company in Boston must've been more appealing
Didn’t see that 😮. Ok that’s the world we live in I suppose. My cryptic point was related to carbon footprint of doing the test. Or am I treading on dangerous ground?
Just wondering, how does your lab VO2 Max compare to your estimated Zwift VO2 Max? And what would it cost to go through a series of tests like this? Thanks!
I was surprised Ollie’s lactate threshold was so low at around 280-290W as he’s done around 5w/kg for 30 mins. I thought lactate threshold was around or just below FTP. That said they measured lactate threshold at 3mml rather than 4mml as seen elsewhere (eg Inigo San Milan) so it would be lower. But then how to translate that 3mml number into a training zone? I’d expect 280-290W to be middle Z3 for Ollie and his Z4 to be 330W+ unless he’s lost a lot of fitness since his Zwift Alpe D’Duez effort.
Great show, really nice to know all the possible tests, but it doesn't look cheap enough for normal people, same as the presenters VO2 max....sad reality 😅
To be pedantic lactate doesn't cause a burning sensation in your legs, its hydrogen ions. I'm pretty sure Inigo San Millan said this to you guys in one of your videos with him!
Interesting that Oli has a very high FTP or 5W/kg, I think higher than Alex per kg (he beats the crap out of the GCN team on a climb), but still his VO2 is less. Oli is a superman.
You can calculate their weight from the info in the video. Alex ~77kg and Ollie ~72.5kg. Based on the measured lactate threshold, they're both about 3.9-4.0 W/kg
@@nymbus82 Their weight can be calculated from the results of the Wingate test in the video where peak power is expressed as W and W/kg and their lactate threshold power is also given from the previous test. It's not inconceivable to think that long travel, dehydration, tiredness, crappy airport food and I'm sure plenty of other things that could factor into the results at that particular moment in time. Besides weight fluctuating through the year, training focus changes depending on the goal or phase of training too and then the testing protocol might not be the same either. So I don't doubt he reached 5 W/kg but there is enough info in the video to say he's not there right now or maybe just measured low on the day for any number of reasons that can affect your performance
I like such videos due to their reliance on specific measurements and not personal feelings, which may be biased. Said this, I can't afford for power meter or such type of extensive lab tests, and all this feels pretty abstractive to me.
This was really a really interesting, enjoyable and entertaining video but it would have been nice to have Manon there too and see the difference in results for females. Or perhaps she has a video of her own?
Both burning a similar amount of fat at rest… Alex burning carbs to give that extra base metabolic rate. Did you both eat/sleep the same for a day or two before the test? If not could easily just be down to blood glucose levels from eating? I bet if you did that same test at different points through the day, it would come up with different results ?
Instead of "your body removing lactate from the blood", it would be wiser to speak of LT in terms of, "faster than your cells can burn the lactate." It's worth noting that lactic acid is literally a carbohydrate (C H20)x3, which is "removed from the blood" by it getting transferred into cells, which then burn it. Lactic acid is a very high energy carbohydrate ... it shouldn't be talked about like it's a nebulous by-product, or worse, as a waste product. Lactic acid doesn't get breathed away, it doesn't get peed away, it gets burned away.
Would you get a full fitness test? 🩺🥵
If I happend to find a couple thousand quid under my pillow, yes probably 😅
I'd want to try this out!
I would but not flying across the pond to do it
Yes. I had one in Hong Kong (I live here) it was really really really really hard.
how well these results match the Garmin calculated zones and VO2max estimates?
This is probably the most polished and complete fitness testing I've seen. I'd love to go to this lab and get this done!
We'd love to have you out!
@@HumanPoweredHealth hmm flights are $500 which is less than I expected... Perhaps some day!
no please try Westminster university for comparison, a student will put you in a room and forget you were there until you walk out an hour later and ask receptionist what is going on 😅
Give it a go! 🙌 You'll love it!
Ollie sure improved a lot in the past years. He's the true people's champion. From getting dropped to the top.
Just imagine how much better he could do with a more stresmlined haircut 🙂
That haircut is specifically designed for helmet tufts which we all recognize as an aero enhancement.
He's certainly been smashing us! 👀
😮mo😮l😮b
A few months ago, Ollie and Alex went to Mallorca to beat the pros. Alex dehydrated and lost a lot of minerals. The results of the test lab confirm this quite accurate.
Yes! We don't let him forget it, he learnt the hard way on that ride 🤣
When Ollie was doing the Wingate test he looked like Animal off the Muppets 😂
Hahaha we're sure he'll take that as a compliment 🤣
Great Video. Don’t compare yourself to the tip of the iceberg and just look on how much fitter you are compared to the average 💪 You two guys really should be proud of that.
These two can ride a bike! 💨 It just puts into perspective how fast the top players are 🤯
Kind of disappointed that they've glossed over Ollie's question of why does Alex burn a lot more calories (+40%!) as a basic metabolic rate?
And why does their rate of burning fat:carbs to fuel BMR differ so profoundly?
That would've been a very interesting if they'd actually answered that.
I'm guessing there's many factors at play. Genetic, pre-adult training, current fitness levels, gut bacteriae (and biome in general)...?
That could be another video, probably dr. San Millán could have an inkling about it!
I think it is Alex huge cycling base from previous years as prof. cyclist
There is a significant portion of that decided by recent diet. The difference could be down to Alex eating a higher carbohydrate breakfast on the day than Oli.
In regards to the BMR, a large part is gonna come down to size, muscle composition and resting heart rate and then genetics.
Resting metabolic rate is the term used to describe the energy required to sustain life while awake, but generally resting. The differences between Ollie and Alex’s caloric requirements could be due to their differing age, genetics, body composition, diet, type of physical activity, etc. For example, someone with more muscle mass will most likely have a higher caloric requirement. When looking at substrate utilization. You want to burn around a 50/50 mix of fats and carbohydrates at rest, ideally favoring fats. Many factors can affect the ratio of substrate utilization such as type of physical activity, genetics, body composition, age, diet, etc.
@@bleskiven Exactly. I was part of a study once, where I was provided a specific diet for a period and then tested as they did in the video. High-fat diet for at week resulted in high fat-use at rest and vice versa high-carb diet for a week resulted in high-carb use at rest.
Alex and Ollie - do either of you regularly wear a Garmin or similar smartwatch? How accurate are the health measures on the smart watch to the lab results (especially the VO2 max estimate)?
They are generally accurate to within about 5%. However, the accuracy does drop off significantly if you don't have a good fix on what YOUR personal Maximum Heart Rate is.
I had a VO2 max test done the other week and it came back as 62. My Garmin reads it as 54 so as a guide it’s good but doesn’t give you accurate zones
More of this please!.... any chance you could tell us how much this battery of tests cost????
$650 for the full set, according to their website
When I was young and had hair, and was CAT 4 racing I was 61 ml/kg/min. the guy running the lab was my weight / height and a good runner and cranking out 30% more power than me during that test. I could only hit 380W and now decades later when I go out hammering Strava tells me that I'm only good for 160W over a few hours. Oh how the mighty, or at least I, have fallen :)
As good as these modern apps are, they are nothing more than glorified estimates for most numbers. I'm a 20% cyclist 80% runner, and my "costing a fortune" garmin still says my VO2max is between 30-32 while the actual medical assessment I had 10 months ago said it was 60mkm
How the times have changed 🤣 Great to hear you're still loving life on the bike though!
For the power curve the all the pause-time is wheighted in.... i.e. 5min at 200W 5 min pause 5min 200W gives you an average of 10min at 133W... This is why your power curve goes down hard for long events, with every stop for a junktion, sight seeing, taking photos or peeing
@most-average-athelete They're not glorified estimates. They're literally estimates. They plug your power and weight into a formula and spit out a VO2 max estimate. Most of the formulas out there will yield a reasonable VO2 max estimate as long as the input data are good.
If GNC would spring for it, two of you should do a training at altitude series:)
Oooo nice idea! Ollie might be off doing something similar with a very cool bunch of people at the moment 👀 Shhh you didn't hear it from us 🤫
But most importantly, how well these results match the Wahoo/Zwift/Garmin/etc calculated zones and VO2max estimates?
The calculated zones are mathematical. They’re based on whatever the user plugs into the app. This requires one to actually exercise to the point of exhaustion… or 220-age (men) or 210-age (women).
The predicted VO2max is a wild ass guess. At best, it’s based on resting pulse variability. That only gets one so far though. Where a predicted and lab measured VO2max score is the same, mark it down to a happy coincidence. Besides, two lab VO2max tests often result in slightly different readings on different days. Why? We’re not machines.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 We are not machines indeed, however we live in a world of machines that are made specific for us.
Wearables' models gather data over prolonged time period, static trainers work with power data - those are different approaches, but valid nevertheless. Question is - still - how applicable for beginners are models derived for pros and vice versa.
garmin vo2max calculations are often within +-3. so you can get a pretty accurate estimate. and if the garmin estimate goes up so does your real vo2max even if the numbers would not match up 100% with a lab test
Same question I asked, really interested to know! Hope they answer
I wrote this in another comment, I'm gonno shamelessly copy paste it here :)
"As good as these modern apps are, they are nothing more than glorified estimates for most numbers. I'm a 20% cyclist 80% runner, and my "costing a fortune" garmin still says my VO2max is between 30-32 while the actual medical assessment I had 10 months ago said it was 60mkm"
Shame the force plate test was brushed under the rug -- as it's something that shows muscular power as a proxy for Type 2 (fast twitch) fibers, which are extremely important to maintain with age, especially in such a Type 1-oriented sport as cycling. You don't want to become that frail 80yr old marathoner who can go on forever but then trips over a curb and breaks a hip.
There is so much to dive into on this video we could of made it hours long 🤯 Every test was super cool!
Just looked back at the video when Richie on GCN auf Deutsch (when it still existed) did his diagnostics: VO2max 77.5. The guy is a beast.
He's got an engine of him 👀
@@gcn Can we get Si and Dan tested?
Super interesting! As a man in his fifties, it makes me at bit envious of this generation and the tools available to them. I remember being tested in 1985, the tests were quite crude by today's standards. We cannot compare ourselves to the pros. The best in the world are gifted people who have the work ethic to make the most of their abilities. Being healthy superior athletes is a tremendous accomplishment for both of you.
Ollie is 39?! Doesn’t look a day over 35 😂 Seriously though, must have a painting in the loft somewhere, he’s maturing like a fine wine.
I must have been watching GCN longer than I thought - I'm sure he was about 32 a couple of years ago! (And no doubt he thinks the same thing 😁)
Baby Face Bridgewood... we have a new name for him 🤣
Had I known you'd be less than a mile down the road shooting this video, I'd have at least bought you a pint - to help you recover from the test when it was over :) Next time you're in town I would love to show you some of the great riding we have here in Boston's metrowest suburbs!
Hahaha thanks Eric! You don't want a pint with these two... how's your chain wax chat?
Interesting and informative! They team went into great detail, so learned a lot. I know Alex skipped over the movement and jump test, but would have loved to understand the results and the detail of the test. Congrats guys on the results and thanks for the video!
We could have made this video a few hours long! So much info to digest 🤯 We hope you still got enough context out of this one?
AH, a good standing vertical of half your height is good to start off with!! (72in/2 would be 36 inches). However the vast majority of cyclists do not have the kind of training for jumping. Perhaps a Nordic skier or power lifter would do?
Please do a comparison with VO2 estimate from Garmin....
this is a good idea.. and I don't even own a Garmin
My Garmin estimate is 71, so it must be way off
This is probably the most polished and complete fitness testing I've seen
Loved that! I’d love to have that kind of test. I don’t think they should be comparing themselves to pros though. It’s fascinating to hear about pro levels, but these fellas are also super impressive. Being at those levels while working, granted for a cycling show.
Why not book this very test? The lads smashed it 🙌 We just think it's so cool to see how amazing the Pro's are 🤯
That’s the GCN we love!
I know we will never get anything like it, but I sure as hell want to see Tadej do something like that 😂
That would be amazing! We would love to know some of those raw numbers 👀 It's a shame the pro's keep their cards so close to their chests 🤣
There are research papers out there with numbers for prime Indurain (right before his hour record) and Froome (3 weeks after his 2015 Tour win, though it's said in the paper that he'd put on 3-4 kg in those 3 weeks, and he would then have a fairly bad time at the Vuelta). You can find them with a google scholar search. Indurain probably had the highest absolute FTP ever recorded, at 505 watts (if I remember correctly), but of course it was a different EPOch. A team of researchers could conceivably convince Pogi or Vingo to get tested, you never know.
More interesting than I expected, and not just because of the hopping clips, which I expect the producers are going to get their money out of.
Ollie and his progress in the last few years is the best motivation and evidence to almost everyone watching this channel about how they can improve and that their potential is higher than they think. Great video thanks GCN 🙌💪
Awesome, guys! Inspiring. Great to see testing and racing videos in the same time frame. Testing results may also help us compare with the tools each of us may have indi idually.
This was a brilliant video. Awesome. ❤
The VO2max numbers quoted in this video are certainly credible for very fit and trim lads. Whatever differences they have in performance are likely the result of minor physiological differences, like %s of slow vs fast muscle fibre, cycling efficiency etc.
Part of the success here is that these guys aren’t carrying unnecessary body fat. But that only accounts for a few points. Their real edge is the result of being fit all of their lives and keeping fit.
Wow! Alejandro is a powerhouse! 😂
So, their data include “age predicted max heart rate” using 220-age? I’m out.
It's only an estimate and it's fairly accurate. There is no way of determining true max HR.
We display age-predicted heart rate max on the profile as an educational component. We use the max heart rate they achieved during their VO2max test to calculate their heart rate zones. Typically, we do find a discrepancy between the two, for example Ollie's was higher by 8bpm than age-predicted and Alex's was 5bpm lower than age-predicted.
13:07 Actually Alex there is a way to improve your fitness in just a few days before your race. It involves weights, but not in the traditional sense of weight lifting.
Interesting diffence in far vs carb consumption between Ollie and Alex. I assume part of the explanation of the difference in result when doing that circuit of Mallorca. Ollie..whats your secret?
Interesting. I'd enjoy seeing a follow-up in 6-12 months discussing what steps you took to address your weaknesses and how much you were able to improve your numbers.
Another trip to Boston... if we have to 😉
Now this would be super interesting!
Coming back to this video to comment on both Ollie and Alex's anaerobic threshold and VO2 max figures. They are absolutely insane! Your ATs are higher than my VO2 max last year when I was feeling pretty confident in my cycling fitness 😂
They cycle quite a bit!
13:51 that laugh 🥇
I thought Zone 2 as described by Iñigo San Millán as having blood lactate level between 1.7 and 2mmo/L? Please note that different protocols change “VO2max” significantly. Short protocols higher, long protocols lower. Different metabolic cart brands differ in results, as well as chances of operational errors. Oskar Svendsen won the Worlds under-23 TT but quit cycling a few years after. A high VO2max with get you to the start, but not always to the podium.
You are right a high MVO2 will not always end you up on the podium. What % of MVO2 can you hold for an hour??
@@Ucanbikexc Great question. Never had it tested for one hour. On the top of my head about 88-85%.
@@ffskierdune6226 In my day Anaerobic Threshold (AnT), was what you could your HR for an hour intensity. It was not easy!!
Thanks Alex ,Dr O , and crew ...Yes..I am looking online for this place right now !
Great video. Very interesting. Thanks GCN.
Did the results surprise you?
Interesting that there is not a fixed value for the lactate threshold used here. I would like to here Alex‘ and Ollie‘s thoughts on the results.
Also interesting how Alex's Z1 lactate is substantially higher than his baseline and then goes down closer to FatMax as (my assumption) more of it gets used as fuel and cleared. Generally, LT2 is defined by the deflection point on the curve, no longer a fixed value.. even LT1 has been redefined by many labs to use Baseline+1mmol instead of a fixed 2mmol value. Physiology is still often more art than science.
@@veydajar came to the comments to find answers to both these points - 1. the definition of LT2, and 2. more understanding of the higher baseline...
@@veydajar But what is a „deflection point“? Is there a mathematical definition for that? I have looked at my own diagnostic and it is pretty much an exponential curve that dosen have a sharp bend
@@chrisridesbicycles _Inflection_ point -- my bad!
You can either find it using a 2nd order derivative if you prefer the math.. or just draw a straight line on the graph from your LT1(ish) to the highest point on the curve (presumably, the end of the test), then look for a point on your lactate curve that is 'furthest' from the line that you just drew. That point will be an _estimate_ of your LT2.
Keep in mind, not everyone will have a 'normal' lactate curve -- a lot of newer (less trained) folks may have a flatter curve that rises immediately without a pronounced LT1 dip.
To reiterate again -- zones are often (usually, even) not an exact science, even with a full metabolic cart setup we are often dealing with _ranges_ and _estimates_, not precise points. Think of zone borders and even LT1/VT1/AeT and LT2/VT2/AnT as fuzzy and constantly in flux based on things like your hydration status, recovery, and even mood at that particular point in time. Ballpark is often the best we can get, and precise zone cutoffs that the wearables give us is an illusion.
Well done to you both. I think what was also proven is.. chosing cycling over basketball was the correct choice 😂
Great video. Amazing stats
Both very impressive 🙌
I'd love to have access to a full test like this. Absolutely stellar, fascinating scientific fitness content! I love it and am so glad you followed up with this. Wish I had access to this in Ontario! More please!
Would you fancy traveling for this test? 🥵
What a wonderful resource for everyday athletes. These things have been pretty well restricted to the elite levels prior to this. Why is similar testing not available in the UK?
wow guys. Impressive numbers!
You should do a series on Oli progessing thru british cycling, Cat C->B->A
Really great video. Would be great to see one of you follow through with the training plan they produced for you. And video the results.
Agreed! Would love to see their results after implementing our AI Coaching plans! :)
Totally!
Very interesting, plenty to think about, especially to get a good stretching and strength exercise routine into the Weedy Weekend Warrior cyclist's week. Thanks Ollie & Alex, well worth the trip across the pond.
The highest VO2 max recorded that you mentioned wasn’t laboratory verified, nor was it validated using calibrated equipment.
I believe both do a 10 mile TT in 20 minutes - 30 mph. From my experience that's semi- pro or local pro. Very impressive if they said in the interview that they average 10-12 hours per week.?
Looks good, might do it myself - "we hoped across to Boston" - ok maybe not then lol
there needs to be a follow up to this ...please 🤞🏼
I love the GCN plane!
I’ve just been paying attention to what I can do effort wise. Like working hard 9 months ago effort is now boring cool down
That was a very interesting video. I would like to know how much a complete assessment like that would cost? Also, how will you take this information to improve your riding/training?
I'm just curious what's the cost to have this done ?
Really really interesting! I would love to do this kind of fitness test. Unfortunately jumping on a plane to Boston isn't gonna happen! Any idea if they're planning on opening a UK centre?
I had no idea "sweat analysis" was even a thing but now I'm curious how much salt I'm losing versus the average. I'd bet it's a lot as I can physically see it dried on my arms and legs after a heavy workout!
Very nice of GCN to allow us to see the results. I would recommend keeping the raw results for curiosity many decades from now. Many decades ago as a Lab Rat, Cardio rehab subject, I learned that absolute MVO2 is not the end all. An athlete with 80% MVO2 of 86, could be beaten by an someone who could hold 92% of 72 MVO2 for an hour.(Frank Shorter) I also learned that I could make my MVO2 jump from my usual 68 MVO2, to 76-78 MVO2 with some 3on 2off minute intervals for an hour, for 3-4 weeks, before a competition that I wanted to do well in. Five decades later and 35 pounds over racing weight it would be interesting what kind of results would be seen now?
We'll be keeping this data for sure! Should we head back to the lab in a year's time, see how the boys are getting on? 👀
Really interesting notes!
With Ollies weight from the PeakPower Numbers of 72.5kg, this would put him at a treshold of "only" ~4w/kg (288W) with 65.5ml/min/kg VO2max. This seems low for such a great VO2max and he probably needs to work on efficiency and VLamax.
I tought Ollie would be >4.5w/kg from previous videos (suggesting FTP of 325W @68kg a year ago). Nevertheless, great results from both!!
Great video. Well done both. Thank you.
I love all the science. But, I think I'll just carry on having fun adventures and the odd bit of cake. Very much enjoyed the video.
didnt realise you were so old, Ollie. I suspected early to mid 30s. Just think - you will be able to race in the "heritage" category with Si and Dan next year.
That is so cool! Wish I could do all those tests for myself.
The look on the ladies face at 4:20 says it all 😂
I want to see a resting metabolic analysis for Hank hahahhah 😂😂😂
Well done boys. Ride to the level of your smile as well as all those metrics.
Smiles over miles is not just a pretty phrase 🤣
Great video. Couple of observations - please correct me if I’m wrong:
1. The sweat and hydration differences between Ollie and Alex seem much greater than I’d expect. What causes this? Is it related to the significant differences in resting metabolic rates? And what does it mean for pre and in-race fuelling and hydration? With differences like this it’s no wonder that it’s really hard to get this right.
2. Alex appears to have similarly high vo2 max to Ollie but lower wingate top end power and lower LT2. Is this training or genetics?
3. The LT2 levels of c.305w for Alex and 288 for Ollie seem low compared with FTP estimates based on say 20 minute tests. Is this the case, and if so why?
Regards
Leigh
Reigate, Surrey.
Oli on the max effort test is hilarious. All in!
I'd be really interested in my V02Max. My Garmin tells be that I am currently at 61 with my maximum being 72 last summer when I went to 1000 m above zero for two weeks, and I am unsure how far I can trust these values.
Impressive Alex and Ollie!!! I wish we had one of these placed to go to in the middle of the USA.
We have a performance lab in Edina, Minnesota if you're interested in checking it out 👀
@@HumanPoweredHealth Thanks for the info, that still an 8 hour drive. I was hoping for something in the KC area. I will keep the Minnesota location in mind if I travel up that direction in the future. Follow up question are you open on weekends?
Between this video and Si's crossfit video, its quite apparent that cyclists need to sprinkle in a bit more strength training.
Still, very impressive results, boys!
With Olie's VO2max, it is really hard to differ the ex-pro from a very fit amateur.
Wow. Interesting content. How much does it cost to go through that?
This one reminds me of my favorite cycling movie. "American Flyers".
Now go ride The Hell of the West
Very well done guys! 👍
downloaded Humango after this video....Enjoying it much more than training peaks
Awesome! Great app!
Ollie is 39!!??? Goodness. Didnt expect that. Good lookin chap
Great Vid!! Very informative.
Question.... are Ollie and Alex going to implement any of the training suggestions from the tests? If so, which ones and how?
I was waiting for this video...I live in Boston area. ...Next time please let me know that you are here so we can go out for a bike ride!!!
Kristian Bluemenfelt, Olympic triathlon champion recorded a VO2max higher than 100 recently...
Ollie is an endurance machine, burning more fat that carbs and not dehydrating as quickly as Alex make a big difference the longer the ride gets
Great video. Any recommendations have to calculate this at home using a power meter, HR monitor and Garmin watch that 'tracks' VO2?
I’m so glad this place is in my neighborhood 😊
Have you had a full test? 👀
I’m having a VO2 Max, lactate and Dexa on 19th June. I am a 62 year old runner and I am just intrigued as to what, in particular, my VO2 Max is and my visceral fat.
I am having my done at Buckingham New University, which is a bit closer than Boston, I know you have an international audience but could you not have done this in the UK?
Precision Hydration offer sweat tests and I might have one at Silverstone which is near me.
the thumbnail has in small white letters in the top right hand corner "ad".. sure , they could've gotten this done in this UK , but the offer from this company in Boston must've been more appealing
Didn’t see that 😮. Ok that’s the world we live in I suppose. My cryptic point was related to carbon footprint of doing the test. Or am I treading on dangerous ground?
Having Dan run through these tests would have been informative, one of the presenters whose strength is well-below that of Alex and Ollie.
Wow, 42 resting heart rate? Impressive!
Just wondering, how does your lab VO2 Max compare to your estimated Zwift VO2 Max? And what would it cost to go through a series of tests like this? Thanks!
I would be very interested to know how your vo2 max numbers compared to the estimates provided by smart watches and the like.
I was surprised Ollie’s lactate threshold was so low at around 280-290W as he’s done around 5w/kg for 30 mins. I thought lactate threshold was around or just below FTP. That said they measured lactate threshold at 3mml rather than 4mml as seen elsewhere (eg Inigo San Milan) so it would be lower. But then how to translate that 3mml number into a training zone? I’d expect 280-290W to be middle Z3 for Ollie and his Z4 to be 330W+ unless he’s lost a lot of fitness since his Zwift Alpe D’Duez effort.
Great show, really nice to know all the possible tests, but it doesn't look cheap enough for normal people, same as the presenters VO2 max....sad reality 😅
To be pedantic lactate doesn't cause a burning sensation in your legs, its hydrogen ions. I'm pretty sure Inigo San Millan said this to you guys in one of your videos with him!
Interesting that Oli has a very high FTP or 5W/kg, I think higher than Alex per kg (he beats the crap out of the GCN team on a climb), but still his VO2 is less. Oli is a superman.
how much kg do they weigh
You can calculate their weight from the info in the video. Alex ~77kg and Ollie ~72.5kg. Based on the measured lactate threshold, they're both about 3.9-4.0 W/kg
@@EireGTi Weird because Oli claims he has 5W/kg in another video. And based on the incredible rides he did, I think he is at this level.
@@nymbus82 Their weight can be calculated from the results of the Wingate test in the video where peak power is expressed as W and W/kg and their lactate threshold power is also given from the previous test.
It's not inconceivable to think that long travel, dehydration, tiredness, crappy airport food and I'm sure plenty of other things that could factor into the results at that particular moment in time.
Besides weight fluctuating through the year, training focus changes depending on the goal or phase of training too and then the testing protocol might not be the same either.
So I don't doubt he reached 5 W/kg but there is enough info in the video to say he's not there right now or maybe just measured low on the day for any number of reasons that can affect your performance
I like such videos due to their reliance on specific measurements and not personal feelings, which may be biased. Said this, I can't afford for power meter or such type of extensive lab tests, and all this feels pretty abstractive to me.
Wow…just great info. How often do you need to retest to gauge further improvement?
It really depends on the test, but a general rule of thumb is 6-12 months.
This was really a really interesting, enjoyable and entertaining video but it would have been nice to have Manon there too and see the difference in results for females. Or perhaps she has a video of her own?
Both burning a similar amount of fat at rest… Alex burning carbs to give that extra base metabolic rate.
Did you both eat/sleep the same for a day or two before the test? If not could easily just be down to blood glucose levels from eating?
I bet if you did that same test at different points through the day, it would come up with different results ?
Instead of "your body removing lactate from the blood", it would be wiser to speak of LT in terms of, "faster than your cells can burn the lactate." It's worth noting that lactic acid is literally a carbohydrate (C H20)x3, which is "removed from the blood" by it getting transferred into cells, which then burn it. Lactic acid is a very high energy carbohydrate ... it shouldn't be talked about like it's a nebulous by-product, or worse, as a waste product. Lactic acid doesn't get breathed away, it doesn't get peed away, it gets burned away.
I don't understand the difference of the lactate and the vo2 max test? Is it really two different tests or is combined within one test?
Great video, i would love to try the
Assuming that you may have a Garmin device, what is the predicted VO2max from Garmin?
Ollie, you're a beast!
Best GCN video ever seen 👍😎