I wish to correct an impression I've given in this interview that Frank brought an army of women to his house. This is false. To my knowledge, over twenty years, there were four and given Frank toured six months of most years we're talking over ten years. Frank trusted Gail above everyone else to run his business which indicates he held her in high esteem and she enjoyed that status. Frank clearly appreciated her. I wish I had said more to indicate this.
Loved your book. Best I’ve read in ages. Well done. I’m a fan of Franks music yes but I’m making an objective comment about the quality of the writing I just could not put it down. Also a very classy statement here to clarify your respect for the family. Gives the book even more credibility.
Freak Out was my first and favorite album by Frank. For some reason I was smitten by Suzy Cream cheese. I was 11 years old and had saved the money from my paper route. Sounds like a terrific read . Great interview !
As I have noted before Pauline, if someone wants to know about Frank Zappa and the Mothers, back in the day, Your Book: "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa: Laurel Canyon 1968 - 1971" is the one to read. Having hung out in between shows at the Garrick Theater in NYC in 1967, your analysis of Frank's Listening to people is exactly right! Frank would stand there and listen to me, a 17 year-old from NJ talking about my life and Music and Philosophy like I was somebody! I mean really listening and talk to me about wives, expected kids, whatever. I could not believe that he took the time, in between playing to talk to a nobody, while he quietly smoked his cigarettes. It was magical Pauline, and your Book captures that! Thanks again for a great book, and oh what fun you must have had!
What a wonderful story. Of course at that time he was new to fame to I expect enjoyed talking to you and having your attention as much as the other way round. But I'm glad you felt the magic of having someone focus in such a concentrated way on your words. I imagine you were starstruck for a long time after that. What a shame you didn't have a tape-recorder.
I won Frank's 'Chunga's Revenge' album at 14 in a radio competition and it blew me away....from there I checked him out. Such a great composer and a really fine guitarist. 😃. Genius!
Nice one! I lucked into a copy of Mothermania at my GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE WHEN I WAS TEN... I played it... was amused... then a little bored... but I took it home... and by age 11 I was a fan. Zappa did pretty cool stuff with a bunch of garage musicians, and of course Ian and Ruth... I was already digging on a lot of prog by that time, and zappa didn't seem to know if he was prog or not... in fact... he made fun of just about every prog band, and unplugged Rick Wakeman in the middle of a solo, he said rock is dead at every show... he seemed to be ok with jazz... and avante... I'm going to dub what frank played... right here... right now... as mercury blues. Because he played with the stuff all the time as a kid, it causes madness... and a lot of his guitar work seems to be extended blues, and not jazz... so there. Mercury Blues.
@@seansweeney3532 You know more about Frank's music than I do. It's wonderful that you logged on at 11 years of age but what you mean about Mercury Blues I don't know. Perhaps other fans do.
@pauline butcher bird Well it's kind of a little play on words but more direct... There was a song in the fifties called mercury blues... And it's been covered numerous times by rock and country artists... But I was being so bold as to name Frank's style of music after the song... And the reason being... The popular British trope of the mad hatter... Well that existed before Alice-in-Wonderland... The reason Hatters went mad... Was because they used and handled mercury often and every day... And a little mercury goes a very long way... When it's in your bloodstream... And that's why they were mad. I believe it is referred to as mercury psychosis... But it's very brutal to your nervous system. And highly toxic... Though interestingly enough they used to give it to patients suffering from syphilis... They gave them these treatments of Mercury and iodine I believe, Both deadly poison in their pure form... And have a physical/mental effect upon the people they were administering it to. I suppose it was a trade-off between long-term syphilis and the problems associated with that, and the mental state the cure left you in... But back to my original wandering point... That I call his music Mercury blues... Because he plays standard and extended Blues figures on the guitar, most of the time... but using bizarre truncated rhythms and compositions around it... That being the madness or the mercury in mercury blues... They say that jimmy hendricks played basic straight blues in a similar way.... They say that hendricks was nothing but a blue's player but he just played blues from mars.. And here we have another planet... So it seems like there's a another overlying aspect to the label... Jimmy's from Mars and Frank's from Mercury.... lol
@@seansweeney3532 That is an amazing reply, and interesting too with the stuff about mercury which somewhere in my mind I learned but had forgotten. Thank you for taking the time.
Pauline wrote a great book whether you're interested in Zappa or not. It tells us about the most interesting and creative period of Zappa and The Mothers music and also the inner workings that happened during the time she was there when everything was happening so fast in those few short years. A surprisingly detailed account which also included the emotional relationships and feelings among the people at the log cabin and then afterwards. She also reveals her own private feelings and emotional attachments she had with Zappa and some of the others, plus her relationship with Gail Zappa, giving us a glimpse into who she was. It was my favorite period for The Mothers and Zappa's music from late 1967 through late 1969, the incredible music that was all recorded in just a little over 2 years. Pauline is also very generous and patient with answering any questions I had about her experiences and her book. I feel very fortunate because it was a life changing time for me when I was 15 in 1970 and I first heard Zappa's music. Thanks Pauline.
I read the book and wrote to her after finding some other interviews with her, and she wrote back to thank me. No, thank you, Pauline... It was a wonderful portrait of an insane and strange time...
This was a very enjoyable video! I had the honor of having a phone interview with Mr. Zappa in the 80s, and he and Gail (who set the interview up) were fantastic people! I learned so much about Frank in this video, which somewhat stunned me. And kudos to the interviewer for doing a wonderful job!
This is amazing. Great that she kept a good distance from the drama except when intervention was called for. To see someone who stood up to Zappa's drama and egoism and be respected ( although he kept making passes at her) is quite an amazing feat. I admire her more than Zappa. She presented this straightforward honest but not salacious or mean spirited.
Gracious, Debra, that is really a nice comment and compliment. Thank you. I'm not sure if you've read my book because I'm hoping it will appeal to women as well as Zappa fans.
I agree with Pauline! You're a great interviewer. I immediately went to your channel afterwards to see who else you've interviewed and there are only a few others. Please make more!
Update: finished the book. Its very well written and Pauline's story is fascinating, to say the least. She really paints an amazing picture of the inner workings of Frank's life at the log cabin and the other house. The GTO'S, the rock stars that visit Frank, and all of the craziness are all on display.
I grew up in the Pomona Valley and live in the IE west of I-15. He's quite a legend around the area. My half sister's late father lived a few blocks north of his Cucamonga studio on Archibald.
Thank you, John. I did interview Frank myself in 1988 and they are on You Tube in five parts: parenting, avengelism, composing, party hats, one last question.
Frank had countless great songs and song titles, but among my top few favorites is "Variations on the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression." Hilarious. Santana was supposedly pretty pissed off about it!
Jeff, Do be aware, if you read my memoir, that it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, rehearsing with the Mothers of Invention, composing at the piano, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Reply
Ah, Tony, how kind of you to notice. In fact I'm just off to post there now but I find FB's new Meta format almost impossible to use. It's all about advertising and promotion and very confusing.
i am a huge fan of zappa - my music was influenced so much by his mentality actually - but i wanted to say that Pauline is a wonderful woman - i look forward to reading her book and it's just amazing what i've read from her online and reviews of the book. It's people like Pauline that i am just glad to share this planet with when it is a deep dark harsh world out there. I hope Pauline knows she has made an amazing book and great interview here - Beautiful woman and as a zappa fan - more in WHO he was, i cannot explain to you how much i appreciate your work -
Thank you for the very nice comment. Pauline is amazing and has been extremely kind to me as well. I highly recommend purchasing her book and please purchase the paperback as the kindle format is the older version. Here is an amazon link: amzn.to/3KPQz3w
Bryandass368, thank you for your very kind response to my interview. I hope you enjoy the book as much. It sounds like you are a musician. I hope you've taken on board that Frank was a brilliant businessman, able to make money from his work when no one played it on the radio which, at that time, was the only outlet.
@@paulinebutcherbird i feel so starstruck with this response from you Pauline thank you for it! I want to word this right - My big interest in Frank Zappa is actually who he is much moreso than his music and art though i have great appreciation for that too. I am quite like you in that it is his mind -his way - that is so valuable - His business mentality is to me his most interesting part of his genius and I've spent the last 15 years flopping all over like a fish out of water in the world of corporate art, learning some hard lessons in business. I cannot lie - i am only now about to start my 'new life' with my independent art as my business but i have been planning it for a very long time. And alike u i am a writer and my first big product is indeed a book (which also advertises my music hehe) oof this message is turning into a book itself ! Your being able to write this book is so inspirational - thank you again - I am very friendless at the moment quite because of the 'business mentality' or perhaps bc of other reasons but i love how when Frank Zappa was asked about why he works alone so much he said "it's because i care" - i found the same goddamn thing. And on an interview he was asked about friendship and in his zappa humor/ruthless logic said "a friend is a guy who wants to borrow money LOL" - i understand a lot about him and u are and have helped me plenty. May you be blessed, you beautiful woman ! Take care !
Lovely lady! I have always felt that Frank was not all cold; a complicated person in his own way, but not evil or cold. Very talented and a true genius. I mean, think about it: he was self taught!
Absolutely absorbing watching and listening to this interview. Pauline is a lovely woman with a very gracious way about her and fascinating to hear of the time she spent with FZ. Having been a huge fan of Frank's music and thereby of Frank himself, it's both fascinating and shocking to get these deeper insights into the kind of person he was. Not wanting to be judgmental either, I find myself questioning how the image gets built up that's quite far removed from the reality. I still listen to Frank's music, at least those parts that first attracted me to it and continue to be enthralled. I just bought Pauline's book too. Looking forward to getting that tomorrow. Thanks.
Arthur, thank you for wanting to read my book. I'm concerned in this interview I don't give enough of the positives about Frank and hopefully you'll find those when you read it.
”Weird scenes inside the canyon” by David McGowan is a great book to learn about why all those musicians from all over the States and Canada ended up in Laurel Canyon!
That book is full of conspiracy theories, in particular that some kind of mysterious military connection brought them there and knocked them out one by one. The reality is that if you took any group of people at that time, say bricklayers, lawyers, doctors, hospital porters, you would find a military connection in their families because the military was the biggest employer at that time. I could go on, but this is sufficient for now.
I have a funny experience from college. Around mid 80s I found that a fellow student was A Flock Of Seagulls roady the day he told the class "I don't need this". We never saw him again. Apparently there were often female fans around the doors that I never noticed.
I think pauline's comment on Frank's music being clinical is fascinating to me. A lot of Frank's music I find beautiful and deceptively full of emotion and life. Things like RNDZL, Revised Music For Low Budget Orchestra and Electric Guitar, Waka/Jawaka (the track not the album), and Put A Motor In Yourself have a lot of beauty to me and I would hardly describe it as clinical.
I think I said SOME of Frank's music is clinical by which I mean, you are required to listen closely to it, to the extraordinary combinations of instruments and sounds which do not always move me, but rather leave me outside looking in. Water Melon In Easter Hay, and simple love songs like Lucille among many others do the opposite, draw me in.
@@paulinebutcherbird First, I am a retired professor: Elder Suicide: Durkheim's Vision; The Routledge Handbook of Social Work Ethics and Values; Crime in Creole Countries and in press Statistics in Criminal Justice Today (Textbook). My journal articles have become playful since reading your work
Thank you, Chebrneck. Emma Gregory does an excellent job of getting Frank and Gail's voices, especially given she's English. Do you have a favourite story from it?
Except Pamela's book has been a best seller for over 20 years because it's about many rock stars and my book is mainly about Frank Zappa, sadly a much smaller, though dedicated, fan base
I wish to add that I had a lapse of memory while answering one of the questions incorrectly. I said somewhere, though I can't now find it where on the tape, that Robert Plant had given Frank a book by Aleister Crowley, but it wasn't Robert but Jimmy Page. The trouble with audio is, you can't alter it! Lt. Garber below pointed this out to me. Top marks to him.
Seems like Frank was upfront and honest about what he wanted from people and was respectful if they refused to give him what he wanted. Anything beyond that would've been a waste of his time, which he seemed to view as something very valuable that he didn't have all that much of.
Heh. Might want to read a bit more about him. He was a great musician but a flawed human being. Said some very ugly things about people that were once close to him that were completely out of line.
@@brianhammer5107 My book is the only to give Frank's daily home life from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles and more.
During the early years of its heyday, Laurel Canyon’s father figure is the rather eccentric personality known as Frank Zappa. Though he and his various Mothers of Invention line-ups will never attain the commercial success of the band headed by the admiral’s son, Frank will be a hugely influential figure among his contemporaries. Ensconced in an abode dubbed the ‘Log Cabin’ - which sat right in the heart of Laurel Canyon, at the crossroads of Laurel Canyon Boulevard and Lookout Mountain Avenue - Zappa will play host to virtually every musician who passes through the canyon in the mid- to late-1960s. He will also discover and sign numerous acts to his various Laurel Canyon-based record labels. Many of these acts will be rather bizarre and somewhat obscure characters (think Captain Beefheart and Larry “Wild Man” Fischer), but some of them, such as psychedelic rocker cum shock-rocker Alice Cooper, will go on to superstardom. Zappa, along with certain members of his sizable entourage (the ‘Log Cabin’ was run as an early commune, with numerous hangers-on occupying various rooms in the main house and the guest house, as well as in the peculiar caves and tunnels lacing the grounds of the home; far from the quaint homestead the name seems to imply, by the way, the ‘Log Cabin’ was a cavernous five-level home that featured a 2,000+ square-foot living room with three massive chandeliers and an enormous floor-to-ceiling stone fireplace), will also be instrumental in introducing the look and attitude that will define the ‘hippie’ counterculture (although the Zappa crew preferred the label ‘Freak’). Nevertheless, Zappa (born, curiously enough, on the Winter Solstice of 1940) never really made a secret of the fact that he had nothing but contempt for the ‘hippie’ culture that he helped create and that he surrounded himself with. Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank’s dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to - where else? - the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose. Zappa’s manager, by the way, is a shadowy character by the name of Herb Cohen, who had come out to L.A. from the Bronx with his brother Mutt just before the music and club scene began heating up. Cohen, a former U.S. Marine, had spent a few years traveling the world before his arrival on the Laurel Canyon scene. Those travels, curiously, had taken him to the Congo in 1961, at the very time that leftist Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba was being tortured and killed by our very own CIA. Not to worry though; according to one of Zappa’s biographers, Cohen wasn’t in the Congo on some kind of nefarious intelligence mission. No, he was there, believe it or not, to supply arms to Lumumba “in defiance of the CIA.” Because, you know, that is the kind of thing that globetrotting ex-Marines did in those days (as we’ll see soon enough when we take a look at another Laurel Canyon luminary). Making up the other half of Laurel Canyon’s First Family is Frank’s wife, Gail Zappa, known formerly as Adelaide Sloatman. Gail hails from a long line of career Naval officers, including her father, who spent his life working on classified nuclear weapons research for the U.S. Navy. Gail herself had once worked as a secretary for the Office of Naval Research and Development (she also once told an interviewer that she had “heard voices all [her] life”). Many years before their nearly simultaneous arrival in Laurel Canyon, Gail had attended a Naval kindergarten with “Mr. Mojo Risin’” himself, Jim Morrison (it is claimed that, as children, Gail once hit Jim over the head with a hammer). The very same Jim Morrison had later attended the same Alexandria, Virginia high school as two other future Laurel Canyon luminaries - John Phillips and Cass Elliot.
A few mistakes and inferences in this. First, the log cabin was on one floor with a basement under the complete length. There was an upper floor at both ends of the house, comprising four bedrooms. The inference that there was some weird and sinister military connection in both the Zappa and Sloatman families that echoed the rock scene in LA in 1960s, is far fetched. The military at that time was one of the biggest employers in the US and if you took any group at that time, ie lawyers, bricklayers, teachers, etc, you would find in their families people working for the military.
FZ was like many groundbreakers - outrageous, extremely hard-working, revolutionary, talented, capable of great creativity, and equally great ugliness.
In the late '60s & early 70s, I had a school friend who was an avid music fan like myself. One day he came out that his Auntie worked for Frank Zappa in America. Honestly I did not really believe him until many years later I read Franks auto biography & he mentioned this lady, Pauline Butcher. My friend was Stephen Butcher [ sadly now deceased], son of Englishman John Butcher who emigrated to NZ . Stephen would always have the best & latest music albums,[ Let it Be & Woodstock Set] whether from Pauline or not, not sure. Cheers from NZ.
How nice to read your comment which I've only just seen. Stephen was indeed my nephew, the son of my brother, John Butcher. Both, as you say, sadly died, Stephen tragically young. Frank's book is of course a must for all Zappa fans, but he leaves out a huge amount of daily detail not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing at the piano, rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Finally, I wish to add a thank you to Jeff Starr for giving me this platform.
Oh man! Ive got to check this book out! Zappa was a musician's musician. People who understand the complexity and originality of his work know what a genius he was, and of course he was very interesting personally as well. Can't wait to read this book.
Sounds like he had Asperger's Syndrome, in the genius spectrum. About as hard to give a cheery nod to and expect one back as from Lou Reed or Mark E Smith. Love the way he seemed to be tuning into something divine and astral when he lit rip with the guitar. Maybe its written but it sounds entirely natural.
This hint of Apserger's Syndrome keeps being mentioned. I think it's stretching a point to suggest Frank had a mental illness. He showed no signs of the symptoms, other than his unwillingness to socialise and perhaps his obsessive work style. For me, he doesn't have enough of the symptoms to include him in the category.
@@paulinebutcherbird Fair enough, you were close to him for long enough. I only saw him the once and even then only his back, as he preformed the whole gig with his back to us (London, 1985-ish).
Thanks for this. I am a huge Zappa fanatic (and a guitarist) and saw him live in NY and the surrounds many times from late 70’s to mid-80’s or so. I also have read several books and watched several movies and even was a contributor to the Alex Winter Kickstarter campaign which involved digitizing tons of mixed media in his “vault” and ultimately resulted in making the Doc film “Who the F*%% is Frank Zappa”, which I was somewhat disappointed in, but that’s a conversation for another place and time. Of course I have also poured over the treasure trove of Zappa material on YT. With that backdrop, I just wanted to say I am looking forward to reading the book and felt the author was very well spoken, interesting, articulate and concise. Regardless as to whether she loved or hated his music or even has much musical knowledge at all, she offers another unique perspective on the complex divisive genius of FZ. I will say that his view of woman expressed in many of his songs, is undoubtedly those he was most exposed to on the road and as a working musician in the 60’s and 70’s, including the so-called groupies. And as was suggested, he poked fun at everyone not just woman. Cheers!
@@adamkrauss303 I can imagine it must have been consoling to help in the Winter film. I too was underwhelmed by the film but, as you say, that's part of another thread. Thank you for your kind words about my contribution to the Zappa world.
@@rayrecordings Well, you must have a book to write! I cannot imagine being a record producer in this day and age. In this country (UK) The BBC carry Frank's name on despite hardly anyone knowing who he is. They had a guy on Mastermind TV program who had Frank Zappa as his specialist subject and had some very difficult questions to answer, and BBC radio 4 featured him in their Great Lives series last week but it was very hackneyed stuff.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, yes I am 58 and lived music in the 70’s and the 80’s when everything was authentic and an exciting discovery. I try to smooth down the dichotomy between that era and today by transmitting my passion for music to my students ( I teach at a modern music conservatory). It’s great to see 22-25 yo people loving the music of Frank, Yes, Genesis…And by reading books like your fantastic and emotional memoire.
@@rayrecordings Well, it was good meeting you here and thanks again for your kind words. I, too, am impressed by the number of videos on YT of young musicians in universities playing Frank's music and doing it fantastically well. Hopefully some of your women students might like my memoir too as I would like to reach the women's market. 🎶🎶
Social context is everything and the context of today is the opposite of the context of then. This was a great interview and very insightful of a brilliant artist’s life and times through her experiences. I am committed to getting the book.
@@MrDXRamirez Thank you, and I welcome questions and comments, especially from discerning readers. Do be aware, it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Context has nothing to do with it. FRANK had the RIGHT VIEWS about wo-MEN. MEN are the leaders and wo-MEN are to OBEY. This is in the bible. Frank said he was atheist, but his behavior was very biblical, especially his views about wo-MEN. God bless Frank, he did NOTHING wrong. To tell you the truth, Pauline is a stuffy fEMINIST
Hi Pauline. I know it's in your book but i think alot of Zappa freaks would really love to know about his relationship with the talented Ian Underwood and his talented wife Ruth. pxx
6:15 "Laurel Canyon was like a fairyland." I can only imagine. I later lived on N. Fairfax just a few blocks from the foot of Laurel Canyon Blvd in '79 and I WISH I could have lived there in the '60s. Talk about a near-utopia for a young person. My brother and I met a guy in W. Hollywood (I think he was gay as he picked my brother up hitchhiking) but he gave us 3-4 boxes of 8 x 10 glossies of the Turtles taken while on tour in 1966, like, in bus stations/airports, etc. I held onto them for years but eventually tossed them. Wish I hadn't.
My God @notbadfilms, the Robert Plant gift is a revelation...makes me think a lot of theories. So Robert gave Frank an Aleister Crowley book...not good, wow. Thank you so much for uploading this, GREAT STUFF. Mind if i sample this small bit for my channel for a video? Thank you
JCM, I made a mistake. It was not Robert Plant who gave Gail, not Frank, actually, the Aleister Crowley book, but Jimmy Page. Gail then gave it to Frank. I do make a correction at the top of these comments, but it's worth repeating. I think Jeff is busy on other things at the moment, so you may not get a reply.
I wonder is Frank changed as a father as the years progressed. I read or saw a podcast where Moon said in order to spend some time to get to know her father she decided to get involved with his work, the end result being the collaboration of “Vally girl” which became a money spinner and allowed Frank to stop touring and concentrate on composing. It also (in Franks words) changed the dynamics of their family giving Moon more status.
I know all of your comment except the last part. 'It also changed the dynamics of their family giving Moon more status.' I haven't seen that interview. Do you have alink for it, please? In my interview with him on parenting (in RUclips Pauline Butcher interviews Frank Zappa) he viewed himself as a good father and in his terms he was. Though an absent father as much as one who is at sea for six months of the year and then remote when they return, he was a good father in my opinion, not as good as some and certainly not as bad as some others!
Pauline...May i ask a question/...Many people want to know about the tunnels built that travelled to the house that Houdini once stayed in across the road...Some say the city later used them for storm water ...but it was said there was an elevator and the tunnels were not crude but were professionally cut and lit with a lighting system..Did you have any understanding of these tunnels.
Mike, I didn't have any knowledge or curiosity about those tunnels as I'm claustrophobic. I reluctantly went down to the basement from where the tunnel was supposed to go. The only person I could now ask is Sparky (GTO) who lived at the log cabin after we left. There is a documentary on RUclips about the tunnels. No one seems to have found them, but there is enough rumour to suggest that something must have been there, but it was nothing to do with Houdini who aparently lived across the other side of Laurel Canyon for only a few months and even then was a tenant, not an owner. There is one other person I could ask if I can trace him. His mother owned the log cabin.
@@paulinebutcherbird That true about Houdini not livng across the road but being a house guest of the owner...I think or believe he rented a place not to far away but not direct acorss the road...I was watching a series on Laurel canyon 1964-1975 and the muso's that lived there and that matter of the tunnels arose....The question is what was there initial purpose..The house across the road was owned in the early decades by a very wealthy man and I wonder why you would tunnel between the properties when in those days the traffic would be nil...Thank you
So much for Zappa. He and his music were mainly a source of humor for me, and mild recognition of the technical prowess. There is nothing there that nourishes me year after year. He was valuable in pointing out the flaws of business and government.
The stature of Frank Zappa, I think, is that he could play in every sphere, doo-wop, classical, blues, rock'n'roll and jazz, and not one of these was specific to his music. There are few artists that could cover such a wide range and include satire and political commentary as well.
Anyone who has been in a band knows that band leaders can be tyrants when it suits them. Frank Zappa was an absolute genius composer and a superb guitarist.
@@paulinebutcherbird That's OK - there are so many who have analysed his music, but nobody who has seen what you have seen. I've ordered the book now & I'm waiting for it to arrive to the Åland islands in June (!).
@@paulinebutcherbird "You Can't do that on Stage Anymore" Volume 2 is an entire show from Finland. I guess they liked him enough for him to tour there.
Being able to diffuse a situation can be a talent, or something he had learned. Magic is so hippie a word. We need more Zappas to work with emergencies
This was a fascinating interview! Thanks to you both :) I am a fan of Frank Zappa, and also Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull). I have read that Frank had wanted to speak with Ian before he died, and that Ian had heard that, but had been too scared to call Frank etc etc.....what is the truth there? Did Frank have anything to say to IA?
I wasn't there during Frank's last days but I do get feedback from those who were and it appears that Gail was a stern gatekeeper. I imagine that she would have let Ian Anderson through had he phoned because she remained a groupie to the end of her days!
Before you judge Frank Zappa, you must understand the times he lived in, what the culture was at the time, what he went through, and what his professional universe was like. Before he was a composer, he was a man. And if you are creating great things, you would naturally expect certain benefits not readily available to the common person. I don't know if a culture of free love and unrestrained sex still occurs in the world of rock music with new bands today. It's a pity his obsession with cigarette smoking cost him his life. Such a smart man, such a stupid habit
As someone who moved to California from England, I enjoyed reading how Pauline adjusted to life out here, as it was very similar to my own experiences. And of course, all the stuff about Frank Zappa!
Loved your comment. When did you locate to California, and give me one example of your experience similar to mine. I would love to know. It's why John Mayall and I became friends, when he stayed at the log cabin for two weeks because we shared for that short while, the same language. Hard to explain to those not experiencing it.
@@paulinebutcherbird I have lived in Southern California now since 2001, but it was just little things, like how American toilets are different from English ones. It's been a long time since I read your book (I need to read it again soon!), so I don't remember the things you said, but I definitely understood it!
@@AndyMmusic The new version is much improved over the original if you can stretch that far, but thank you for reading the book. Part of the difference for me related to language: moche, groovy, gross, spiffy, hung up, bad vibes, boss, to name a few. Also, it was three months before I bought my first pair of jeans and a t-shirt!
I, too, disliked the Radio 4 play, and I remember cringing over the same part as Pauline. I thought about recommending it to my friend but decided not to because I didn't think it did the book justice. Great interview.
Thank you, TheWhippinpost. It was a 45 minute play so a lot to cram. I was surprised by the parts they chose. In its own terms, it was okay though and Pick of the Week chose an early scene as something worth listening to.
It's a difficult question because the word 'genius' means different things to different people. If I lower the bar and judge his brilliant stage performances, his ability to switch between doo-wop, jazz, rock'n'roll, classical and satire, then I do consider he was a genius because no one else could do that on stage. He was unique. However, if I raise the bar to compare him with generally accepted geniuses like Isaac Newton who understood gravity, or Einstein and his theory of relativity, and many other in the scientific field, than no, his genius does not compare.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thank you for letting me know. I don't think one has to lower the bar in his case, it's a matter of an individual standing out to the extent that they do in their chosen field, which he certainly did. As for Newton, Einstein etc, perhaps Zappa could have been on that level in addition to his artistic ability, but I suspect his modesty would stop us from knowing about it.
@@mrh9635 Exactly. Once you define what you mean by genius, ie being outstanding in their individual field, then yes, I think we agree, in that respect he was a genius.
I’m really quite curious about why Frank strongly believed that only one party could be polyamorous for the relationship to work. Given him and Gail were still on the verge of divorce a lot and he was also distant from her as Pauline described, I don’t know if her having flings without love as he did would have mattered, or if that was all an excuse for him being possibly controlling and possessive of women in his life.
I wonder this too. In reading Pauline's book I think there are times when Frank comes off as passive aggressive and controlling in a narcissistic manner. Yet in speaking to her and others about their interactions with Frank they seem to dispute this.
I do think I've given an unfair overall view of Frank and Gail's relationship. I've implied he brought home endless women but in fact there were four in all that I know of over the time of their marriage. When Gail rebelled and left him to live with her brother and there may have been other occasions, Frank chased after her each time. And then he trusted her to run his business which I cannot think of many men doing. He gave her status. One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?
Actually this woman made me change my mind about reading her book. She is very sycophantic, he wrote some great tunes and was a super good guitar player, not a scientist discovering a cure for cancer
Ah, Chickengorge, sorry about that. You win some, you lose some. But are you sure you've got the right word? You mean I grovelled, fawned, gushed to Frank for his favour? One time I told him off because he left his fan letters all over the floor and I couldn't tell which envelope belonged to which note.
@@MassiveLib I'm astonished at your comments. There was me worrying that I'd said too many negative things about Frank - his womanising, his being cold toward the Mothers, his attitude toward women, and so on. Admittedly, I forgave him everything, but I thought I showed a balanced view.
@@paulinebutcherbird you have to understand that the difference between your view and my own is a trillion miles apart. You met him, to me he's a bloke in an album cover...
I think she's stumbled upon something... that Frank, though he would probably disagree, did approach music in a more clinical sense... that his pieces could have sounded cold and overly complex, were it not for the sake of the people he employed... if you look at Hot Rats, it started with a long electric blues violin figure and then that morphed into Peaches, which is obviously the centerpiece of the LP... AND willy the pimp, has Beefheart's stamp all over it... and I credit Shuggie Otis in bringing the former to life. With Ruth and Ian... and while Frank knew what he liked when he heard it, I think that there were people on that album that truly deserved a writing credit.
@pauline butcher bird certainly! I've read a lot about Frank, listened to it all and am a musician myself, of some note. I've written a 900 page book about my 16 years with a girl who was my best friend, bandmate, collaborateur and wife.. all before I lost her in the second month of her 35th year. I was sure we would make a mark. And I'm convinced that she still will. Luckily, I saved every bit of memorandum... my sentimental nature proved handy. We recorded and worked on about 100 songs as well ad lived a great life together... the kind I know few have had... Kari used to ask me what I would do when we got famous and I said, pretty much what I do now... maybe a bit more! Lol. This was our last song, to give you an idea of the level of our work ... thank you for your interesting take on Frank! ruclips.net/video/HNnayiJLHqk/видео.html
Hot Rats starts with Peaches En Regalia. In 1969 it was startling to hear sounds like that even before you entered the rest of the album. What is the long electric blues violin figure you are referring to? Off the top of my head the only song that starts like that is Directly From My Heart to You on "Weasels..." which of course is not a Zappa composition.
@alancumming6407 Believe it or not, it was peaches that started as a long electric violin blues solo.. Frank was really good at editing and basically when he had a sixteen track tape machine, he would do things that other people simply couldn't at that time... Things that only Brian Eno surpassed him with. The era of multi track recordings go away back to a single called "sally go round the roses" in which a local producer hired a number of female singers to interpret these lyrics he had written, And also hired musicians as well... In all, he probably "auditioned" about 100 people in recording their ideas, and a lot of them were kept in "vine" form for this multi Track recording... Basically, he would record what they interpreted and make notes on what he liked and then make safety copies, Using Hey, click track generated by something reliable like a Hammond drum machine or a similar electronic device that would give consistent BPM clicks... And then the next people would come in and he would record and then make notes and then more safety copies, but only of their solo'd parts. ... And in the end he had a song that was basically organically composed... by OTHER people... but something he could put his stamp and publish it himself. If you look at that song's history, you'll see that there's a number of people that claim to have written/performed it or helped with that.... Zappa was kind of the same way... Like Steely Dan (who also used this method, hiring teams of musicians, all of whom had signed off on ever taking credit for what likely would be their own creative work; IE: Katy Lied Was an LP that Steely Dan members didn't actually even play on!), He liked to assemble bands of crack musicians to interpret the things he wrote, Which in embryo and in those days could be rather austere, with just some suggestions, a key center and maybe part of a "head".... Guys would come in and interpret and then they would also improvise. Shuggie Otis was one such, who apparently couldn't read music, so it's very likely his part was completely improvised... It was one such improvisation that inspired him to write the part that became the head of peaches... And basically, with the help of Ruth, he was able to compose the whole front "head" section and then make a loose solo section for guitar and such, and then the heavily syncopated section with the organ and marimba parts... (which bears Ruth and Ian's stamp every bit as much and as recognizable as Zappa's).... And that's pretty much the whole song. He discussed the creation and composition. I believe on an interview I heard on NPR a longtime ago.
I was sooo much waiting when she talked about cal schenkel that that was exactly the time captain beefheart did trout mask replica with frank producing and nothing? That was one of the reasons I wanted to listen to hear a little about the wolf. Oohhwwwoo ! Oh well good listen 🙏🏻
"She made a bet with her sister who's a little bit dumb, she could prove it anytime all men was scum". He made me laugh, and I was at all his shows in London, and he was loud and the band were loud, and the audience went crazy, he played 2 hours and more, back then sometimes till midnight, fantastic guitar solo's, five sometimes nearly ten minutes. Steve Via just stood side stage when Frank played!
@@TheChipMcDonald Note of bitterness in those words? I don't think musicians were any more respected then than now. It was just that Frank Zappa made people respect him. When Paul McCartney said he would have to ask his manager if it was all right for Frank to do the copy of Sergeant Pepper, and Frank replied, I tell my manager what to do, he does what I tell him.
@@paulinebutcherbird Maybe you're not aware, but most recording studios are closed now. There are no record labels financially backing artists. DJs are "musicians". Music is effectively free. People are raised on monophonic music, hardly any melody, and have little cognition of the effort that goes into being a Professional Musician. Frank was talking about this already happening in the early 80s. It is no longer viewed as art, and the perception of "art" has been reduced to "something someone that anyone can do if they bothered for a few hours". YMMV.
pauline butcher`s striking description of frank zappa has him showing all the hallmarks of an out-and-out narcissist. this goes some way towards explaining why frank seemed so "complex", or even "contradictory"; when in actual fact frank zappa simply thought, said or did whatever the fvck he wanted. all the more surprising, then, that pauline (as a trained psychologist, no less) doesn`t mention his rather obvious clinical narcissism. perhaps grace slick of jefferson airplane put it best when she described frank zappa as "the most intelligent a*sehole I`ve ever met in my life".
I replied to this. I don't know where it's gone. I don't consider Frank was clincially narcissistic. Yes, he might have had an element of that but I imagine all stars carry it, too. But he never surrounded himself with adorers. When the GTOs told him, 'We love you Mr Zappa' he responded with, 'You little vixen you.' When an interviewer remarked fans seemed to think he was some kind of God, he replied, 'I am God to three people, my wife, Moon and Dweezil.'
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks for your reply, and fair enough. we`re all narcissistic to some degree, of course, and rightfully so: narcissism is not a clinical condition per se. however, I would argue that your examples do not necessarily preclude the possibility of a clinical case, either: a highly intelligent, manipulative narcissist would be well equipped to come up with the requisite answers that you cite. be that as it may, I have still enjoyed big parts of frank`s music for almost fifty years, and will continue to do so: narcissism, or not! all the best, g.
@@donkeyshot8472 I agree that Frank was narcistic to a greater degree than most of us, whether that was to a clinical level , I don't think so. Anyhow, I think we've covered it. Thanks for a healthy discussion.
I answered this once but it seems to have disappeared. I've always been a Zappa fan also I've worked as a graphic artist since 1981 I was a young art student when I met Cal. We talked about. Zappa's music Cal's cover illustrations and Ann Arbor life in the 70s.
Thank you, Grok, I believe that version is out of print now so it might become a collector's item. However, the new version is superior in as much as it's better put together and structured. I've still got my original of course.
@@paulinebutcherbird My real name is David. My older brothers were fans of Frank Zappa and other acts from that era, so I gained interest from them. Thank you for responding, Ma'am.
wowzerz this is fantastic listening I generally don't idolize people, but if i was forced to needing to admire at least one person to that extent, Frank would probably be my choice.
I'd say someone like Frank Zappa was more honest with women than most men. He could handle rejection whereas some can't and then in turn get nasty. There are blurred lines now and men are terrified of making their intentions clear, (which is usually just sex) and can complicate things even further. Men and Women are now weak. I get the feeling Frank would agree alot more with a feminist such as Camille Paglia than Kate Millet. Brilliant interview.
Thankyou for bringing Camille Paglia to my attention. I closed down feminist rhetoric some time back because of the constant mud-slinging back and forth. I don't know what Frank would have thought of her given when I was there, he thought Women's Liberation was all about dykes. I hope you're right. I hope he would have matured and acknowledged feminism's worthiness. The paradox is that, at that time, he was the only man to encourage me, a woman, to succeed as a writer, but then Frank was full of these contradictions.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI just thought, both Frank and Camille are Italian. President and Vice President, could you imagine? I really enjoyed your interview, Pauline. Thank you for your reply.
This was an excellent interview. Pauline, if you don't mind please, did he jam with any of the more popular musicians of that time? Did Hendrix visit and did they ever play together? What about Beck etc? Any recollections?
Televin V, really you should read the book! But I'll be generous. The only group that Frank went to see while I was there was John Mayall and I can't remember without looking it up, which club it was in. And the only reason Frank went there was because John was staying at the log cabin with us. Frank had no interest in other rock stars. When two of the Pink Floyd visited, he took them to the studio and played his recently recorded stuff for them. There was no socialising. He did socialise with Mick Jagger and I have a whole chapter on him. Jeff Beck came with Rod Stewart to the house one night while Frank, Gail and I were at the studio with him. When we got back, Rod and Jeff were having a food fight in the kitchen. Frank walked through and ignored them. I've said this in the interview so I'm not telling you anything new. They also turned up at the studio when the GTOs were recording their album. Rod sings and Jeff plays on the album.
@pauline butcher bird yes, I heard you mention most of this in the interview. Thanks for responding. For a blues fan, you'd think he would have loved to hear John Mayall live. Then again, it seems like F.Z. was dismissive of most popular musicians except for a handful of them. Maybe it has to do with their drug/booze habits?
@@televinv8062 I can't answer the question with any knowledge. It might have been their drug problems. I never heard him listen to other people's music so I was always astonished when, in interviews, he was asked about other people's music and seemed to know all about it. I think you will find better answers than I can give from those interviews. When I admired Leonard Cohen's music and he decried it on the basis of it being silly love songs, I thought to myself, well, when have you ever heard Cohen's music. I never knew how that happened. Maybe someone else can help.
@@paulinebutcherbird Hej Pauline. I read somewhere that Frank called Jim Morrison a "buffoon" and also jumped on Morrison in another song. That was very very unfair. Morrison was an alcoholic and often behaved very badly, but he was a very intelligen person too. The Doors and Frank Zappa are the only music I listen to these days. Nothing else is up to their standard. Kudos to you.
Frank was a complex figure. I love his music. But like many fans I struggle sometimes with his attitudes to women. The world moved on in the sixties and the emergence of feminism was a necessary movement towards greater equality between the sexes. He was a product of the time.
The interesting question is how he would have dealt with the Me-Too movement. I think he would have scorned that too, just as I do, so I wouldn't have minded that. I think he would have modified his views. Remember he was the only man I had met at that time who encouraged me to be a writer.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, I was talking about the interviewer and his great curiosity about your book and Frank's life. I know you are the author and you did a fantastic job ! I'm from Canada and I'm a big fan of FZ music. I saw him once in he mid eighties.
@@marsattacks7071 Of course, on re-reading, I see what your original comment meant. I, too, admire Jeff's detailed understanding of the book which is revealed in his questions, and also his wonderful design of the video itself.
Pauline, I’m really happy that you spoke about Frank’s lyrics so frankly (hah). I love his music a lot, but the ways he wrote about women really bother me and prevent me from enjoying the music more. I have also had the thought that he wrote terrible lyrics about men too, but what strikes me is that the power dynamic is always the same: gross, predatory men and dumb, objectified women. And he always seemed to take joy in “playing” those male characters. It’s certainly complicated and a huge point of debate, which I am up for. But I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your confidence in bringing up a tough subject.
James, I appreciate your reply because most Zappa fans are protective for Frank's lyrics and complain when I voice dislike for his very contentious lyrics like 'Bamboozled by love' or 'Magdalena' . They maintain that Frank is merely highlighting what is going on in the world. I wonder why anyone can see those songs as entertainment. The usual comeback is 'you don't get it.' I then argue that we all have limits and Frank clearly had a limit on child abuse as he has no songs on the matter. I have a limit on women-abuse.
Frank was a product of his generation even though he was years ahead of his time. I’m 64 y/o and I can tell you that in the early 60s parents could beat the crap out of their kids and no one said a word. You can’t judge Frank by today’s standards. The 60s changed everything. 31:29
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Pauline was also a product of that time, and is appalled by some of Frank's lyrics. Plenty of people of their age would feel the same. It's not "today's standards", its the standards of that time too. I can and will criticize Zappa for some of his worst lyrics, and this is speaking as a fan as well.
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Michael, I wish I could agree with you but inevitably we can and do judge by today's standards - we don't approve of capital punishment and, as you mention, walloping a child, among a list of things that today are no longer acceptable. I agree with James Cerone. Frank criticised practically everyone so it's only right that he himself cannot be above criticism where criticism is due. We are criticising some of his lyrics, not the man.
Frank liked to pillory human stupidity, while at the same time being strangely compassionate about it. And the kind of female archetypes, as well as the male ones, that he made up lyrics about were all too common at the time. This was what he wrote about, and he was always upfront about the absurdity of it all.
Liked this interview, more incite than the time I had a back and forth with her trying to pick her brain. I think she was pushing her book so might have been slightly cagey. Although over time my views on Zappa had changed and she was vaguely correcting some of my assumptions. However being older, I now say, unless you actually live with someone, you don't have a chance in hell of knowing much about them. After this interview I might say the people who did live with Frank weren't or couldn't have been clued in much better because he was so distant.
I'm intrigued. When did I do an interview with you and where was it published? It doesn't sound like me. There is some truth to what you say. Frank was closed in. He didn't want to reveal himself or let go. With his bands, he did the same - watched their antics and didn't get involved. Filmed them, recorded them and kept a distance. Yet I found him enchanting and although I could criticise him and see his faults, found him awe-inspiring - well, that is until Women's Liberation came along.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think I responded to a video where you were being interviewed. I remember the story about gun but you described it in less detail. I was on another channel and I do use other names. Not that I think of Frank all the time but I was probably still impressed as I was as a teen with some of his arguments centering around the PMRC debate. It was several years ago. I'm 52 and older now and my views are more refined. I would have to research it. It wasn't like we were talking in person, so I only assumed it was you. I'm pretty sure it was though but could easily be wrong online. Maybe my choice of words is throwing you off. Let me rephrase cagey, this interview is more in depth and detail. People from certain generations and backgrounds act a certain way. A lot of macho guys don't like some of the things I say. I'm not a feminist, I'm a realist, and there is a whole lot of posturing going on and facades. Man and woman are different but in many ways the same.
@@paulinebutcherbird Btw as best as I can tell so far it was 10 years ago. I really can't remember or curreently find anything. I'm wondering now if it was on another platform like facebook or here as well. I was looking for ideas for writing some songs about Laurel Canyon. I think i wound up writing one ha! Although it was inspired by a more cynical view of Laurel Canyon.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 This conversation could go on and on, dealing with the different tributaries you've opened up. I am a realist, too, but also a feminist. I concur - men and women are different and these differences should always be acknowledged.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 It was not difficult to be cynical about Laurel Canyon, especially after the Manson murders although of course they occurred in a different Canyon several miles off.
Frank Zappa didn't watch TV, nor did anyone else in the house during the time I was there 1968-1971. I imagine as the children grew up, they imposed pressure on Frank to allow them to watch it and gradually by the time Moon and Dweezil were teenagers they were auditioning for parts in sit-coms on TV. Later, Frank spoke about watching CNN news and the bias and flaws in their broadcasting (as if no one else noticed.)
I wish to correct an impression I've given in this interview that Frank brought an army of women to his house. This is false. To my knowledge, over twenty years, there were four and given Frank toured six months of most years we're talking over ten years. Frank trusted Gail above everyone else to run his business which indicates he held her in high esteem and she enjoyed that status. Frank clearly appreciated her. I wish I had said more to indicate this.
Thank you for expanding on this and providing additional context.
Loved your book. Best I’ve read in ages. Well done.
I’m a fan of Franks music yes but I’m making an objective comment about the quality of the writing I just could not put it down.
Also a very classy statement here to clarify your respect for the family.
Gives the book even more credibility.
@@JeffStarr well done bravo!
Fantastic interview. You have a gift Sir. Please do more and pleasure to meet you here.
Zappa was last shit
@@robinbolton6064 Thank you Robin. Very nice of you.
Freak Out was my first and favorite album by Frank.
For some reason I was smitten by Suzy Cream cheese.
I was 11 years old and had saved the money from my paper route.
Sounds like a terrific read . Great interview !
Pauline is an absolute treasure, with amazing insights into Frank’s character. Well done with this excellent interview. 🙏
Thank you, Philip. I appreciate your taking the time.
@@paulinebutcherbird You are very welcome, Pauline. Looking forward to reading your book. 🌻
@@ganazby Thank you, Philip. If you have any comments or questions, let me know.
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
@@paulinebutcherbird Was that your dildo that Moon mentioned being left around?
As I have noted before Pauline, if someone wants to know about Frank Zappa and the Mothers, back in the day, Your Book: "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa: Laurel Canyon 1968 - 1971" is the one to read. Having hung out in between shows at the Garrick Theater in NYC in 1967, your analysis of Frank's Listening to people is exactly right! Frank would stand there and listen to me, a 17 year-old from NJ talking about my life and Music and Philosophy like I was somebody! I mean really listening and talk to me about wives, expected kids, whatever. I could not believe that he took the time, in between playing to talk to a nobody, while he quietly smoked his cigarettes. It was magical Pauline, and your Book captures that! Thanks again for a great book, and oh what fun you must have had!
What a wonderful story. Of course at that time he was new to fame to I expect enjoyed talking to you and having your attention as much as the other way round. But I'm glad you felt the magic of having someone focus in such a concentrated way on your words. I imagine you were starstruck for a long time after that. What a shame you didn't have a tape-recorder.
I won Frank's 'Chunga's Revenge' album at 14 in a radio competition and it blew me away....from there I checked him out.
Such a great composer and a really fine guitarist. 😃. Genius!
I wish I'd talked more about his music and the jam sessions at the house.
Nice one! I lucked into a copy of Mothermania at my GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE WHEN I WAS TEN... I played it... was amused... then a little bored... but I took it home... and by age 11 I was a fan. Zappa did pretty cool stuff with a bunch of garage musicians, and of course Ian and Ruth... I was already digging on a lot of prog by that time, and zappa didn't seem to know if he was prog or not... in fact... he made fun of just about every prog band, and unplugged Rick Wakeman in the middle of a solo, he said rock is dead at every show... he seemed to be ok with jazz... and avante... I'm going to dub what frank played... right here... right now... as mercury blues. Because he played with the stuff all the time as a kid, it causes madness... and a lot of his guitar work seems to be extended blues, and not jazz... so there. Mercury Blues.
@@seansweeney3532 You know more about Frank's music than I do. It's wonderful that you logged on at 11 years of age but what you mean about Mercury Blues I don't know. Perhaps other fans do.
@pauline butcher bird Well it's kind of a little play on words but more direct... There was a song in the fifties called mercury blues... And it's been covered numerous times by rock and country artists... But I was being so bold as to name Frank's style of music after the song... And the reason being... The popular British trope of the mad hatter... Well that existed before Alice-in-Wonderland... The reason Hatters went mad... Was because they used and handled mercury often and every day... And a little mercury goes a very long way... When it's in your bloodstream... And that's why they were mad. I believe it is referred to as mercury psychosis... But it's very brutal to your nervous system. And highly toxic... Though interestingly enough they used to give it to patients suffering from syphilis... They gave them these treatments of Mercury and iodine I believe, Both deadly poison in their pure form... And have a physical/mental effect upon the people they were administering it to. I suppose it was a trade-off between long-term syphilis and the problems associated with that, and the mental state the cure left you in... But back to my original wandering point... That I call his music Mercury blues... Because he plays standard and extended Blues figures on the guitar, most of the time... but using bizarre truncated rhythms and compositions around it... That being the madness or the mercury in mercury blues... They say that jimmy hendricks played basic straight blues in a similar way.... They say that hendricks was nothing but a blue's player but he just played blues from mars.. And here we have another planet... So it seems like there's a another overlying aspect to the label... Jimmy's from Mars and Frank's from Mercury.... lol
@@seansweeney3532 That is an amazing reply, and interesting too with the stuff about mercury which somewhere in my mind I learned but had forgotten. Thank you for taking the time.
Very insightful and interesting interview. When she said about reading Moon Z’s book and you replied, “Fer sure!” Cracked me up…Nice one. Thanks.
Thank you for watching and taking time to leave a comment. If you enjoyed the interview you will likely love Pauline’s book.
Pauline wrote a great book whether you're interested in Zappa or not. It tells us about the most interesting and creative period of Zappa and The Mothers music and also the inner workings that happened during the time she was there when everything was happening so fast in those few short years. A surprisingly detailed account which also included the emotional relationships and feelings among the people at the log cabin and then afterwards. She also reveals her own private feelings and emotional attachments she had with Zappa and some of the others, plus her relationship with Gail Zappa, giving us a glimpse into who she was. It was my favorite period for The Mothers and Zappa's music from late 1967 through late 1969, the incredible music that was all recorded in just a little over 2 years. Pauline is also very generous and patient with answering any questions I had about her experiences and her book. I feel very fortunate because it was a life changing time for me when I was 15 in 1970 and I first heard Zappa's music. Thanks Pauline.
Good to hear from you and I'm so pleased you experienced the magical effect it had when Frank listened to you and exchanged views.
Wonderful interview. Thank you
Thankyou, Maria. Kind of you.
I read the book and wrote to her after finding some other interviews with her, and she wrote back to thank me.
No, thank you, Pauline... It was a wonderful portrait of an insane and strange time...
This was a very enjoyable video! I had the honor of having a phone interview with Mr. Zappa in the 80s, and he and Gail (who set the interview up) were fantastic people! I learned so much about Frank in this video, which somewhat stunned me. And kudos to the interviewer for doing a wonderful job!
Thank you for such kind words! I’m very awestruck that you had the honor to interview Mr. Zappa. Is your interview available online anywhere?
I agree with Jeff. I would love to hear your interview. How did you get Gail onside, which in itsefl was not easy to do?
This is amazing. Great that she kept a good distance from the drama except when intervention was called for. To see someone who stood up to Zappa's drama and egoism and be respected ( although he kept making passes at her) is quite an amazing feat. I admire her more than Zappa. She presented this straightforward honest but not salacious or mean spirited.
Gracious, Debra, that is really a nice comment and compliment. Thank you. I'm not sure if you've read my book because I'm hoping it will appeal to women as well as Zappa fans.
I agree with Pauline! You're a great interviewer. I immediately went to your channel afterwards to see who else you've interviewed and there are only a few others. Please make more!
Thank you very much! I have new interviews planned so please subscribe for future content.
Seconded. I hope it will be Moon Zappa!!!!!
Shit ugly zappa died like a miserable bum at the end 🤣 🤣
Zappa was an arrogant asshole and ignorant
@@paulinebutcherbird So do I! But also the other Zappa children's thoughts and memories would be interesting to hear about!
I read the book last year and loved it. Pauline is a great storyteller! 😊
Thank you ffst739. Any likelihood of a review? 🫤
@@paulinebutcherbird I'm not as good of a writer as you. 😊 Wish you the best!
@@ffsf739 Okay. We'll still be YT friends.
Zappa was filth
A boring asshole
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Excellent! Thanks for posting.
Thank you for watching!
Zappa was filth
I'm reading the book now and I love it so far! I'm so glad I stumbled onto this channel, thank you!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to leave such nice feedback.
Update: finished the book. Its very well written and Pauline's story is fascinating, to say the least. She really paints an amazing picture of the inner workings of Frank's life at the log cabin and the other house. The GTO'S, the rock stars that visit Frank, and all of the craziness are all on display.
@@MrTgrewell Thank you, Todd. Very nice of you.
Love Zappa and this interview is good. Thanks buddy
Great interview, thanks!
Thank you for watching!
I grew up in the Pomona Valley and live in the IE west of I-15. He's quite a legend around the area. My half sister's late father lived a few blocks north of his Cucamonga studio on Archibald.
That's interesting. If only Frank had lived to know about that. During his lifetime he appears to have been scorned in that area.
Fascinating interview, thanks for sharing x
Thank you, John. I did interview Frank myself in 1988 and they are on You Tube in five parts: parenting, avengelism, composing, party hats, one last question.
@@paulinebutcherbird Cool, your book dropped on my doormat this morning!
@@fastcakes Great. Happy reading.
50 year Zappa fan, this was great 🎉
Frank had countless great songs and song titles, but among my top few favorites is "Variations on the Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression." Hilarious. Santana was supposedly pretty pissed off about it!
Well, I started listening to Cuban and other Latin jazz sometime ago and and quickly thought "oh this is where CS stole all his ideas" LOL
Great interview, I hadn’t heard any of these stories before, I’ll have to check out her book!
Jeff, Do be aware, if you read my memoir, that it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, rehearsing with the Mothers of Invention, composing at the piano, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more.
Reply
It’s a great read! You can find the on Amazon using this link: amzn.to/40dMKuJ
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 😂😂😂
This was a great interview!
Thank you very much!
Without the shit ugly zappa, the music World would be much better 😂😂😂
Enjoyed this great interview Pauline. Im a fan of you and your book and have read it a couple of times. Hope ya return to FB soon.
Ah, Tony, how kind of you to notice. In fact I'm just off to post there now but I find FB's new Meta format almost impossible to use. It's all about advertising and promotion and very confusing.
Awesome, thank you
i am a huge fan of zappa - my music was influenced so much by his mentality actually - but i wanted to say that Pauline is a wonderful woman - i look forward to reading her book and it's just amazing what i've read from her online and reviews of the book. It's people like Pauline that i am just glad to share this planet with when it is a deep dark harsh world out there. I hope Pauline knows she has made an amazing book and great interview here - Beautiful woman and as a zappa fan - more in WHO he was, i cannot explain to you how much i appreciate your work -
Thank you for the very nice comment. Pauline is amazing and has been extremely kind to me as well. I highly recommend purchasing her book and please purchase the paperback as the kindle format is the older version. Here is an amazon link: amzn.to/3KPQz3w
Bryandass368, thank you for your very kind response to my interview. I hope you enjoy the book as much. It sounds like you are a musician. I hope you've taken on board that Frank was a brilliant businessman, able to make money from his work when no one played it on the radio which, at that time, was the only outlet.
@@paulinebutcherbird i feel so starstruck with this response from you Pauline thank you for it! I want to word this right - My big interest in Frank Zappa is actually who he is much moreso than his music and art though i have great appreciation for that too. I am quite like you in that it is his mind -his way - that is so valuable - His business mentality is to me his most interesting part of his genius and I've spent the last 15 years flopping all over like a fish out of water in the world of corporate art, learning some hard lessons in business.
I cannot lie - i am only now about to start my 'new life' with my independent art as my business but i have been planning it for a very long time. And alike u i am a writer and my first big product is indeed a book (which also advertises my music hehe) oof this message is turning into a book itself ! Your being able to write this book is so inspirational - thank you again -
I am very friendless at the moment quite because of the 'business mentality' or perhaps bc of other reasons but i love how when Frank Zappa was asked about why he works alone so much he said "it's because i care" - i found the same goddamn thing. And on an interview he was asked about friendship and in his zappa humor/ruthless logic said "a friend is a guy who wants to borrow money LOL" - i understand a lot about him and u are and have helped me plenty. May you be blessed, you beautiful woman ! Take care !
@@bryandass368 Thank you for that. I hope your business skills help you with your venture. Good luck with it.
Lovely lady! I have always felt that Frank was not all cold; a complicated person in his own way, but not evil or cold. Very talented and a true genius. I mean, think about it: he was self taught!
What an excellent interview
Thank you, The Fierce And The Dead. Jeff is a very good interviewer.
Absolutely absorbing watching and listening to this interview. Pauline is a lovely woman with a very gracious way about her and fascinating to hear of the time she spent with FZ. Having been a huge fan of Frank's music and thereby of Frank himself, it's both fascinating and shocking to get these deeper insights into the kind of person he was. Not wanting to be judgmental either, I find myself questioning how the image gets built up that's quite far removed from the reality. I still listen to Frank's music, at least those parts that first attracted me to it and continue to be enthralled. I just bought Pauline's book too. Looking forward to getting that tomorrow. Thanks.
Arthur, thank you for wanting to read my book. I'm concerned in this interview I don't give enough of the positives about Frank and hopefully you'll find those when you read it.
Second time I watch this whole podcast so I think it's time for me to subcribe to your channel ! Done ! Cheers from Quebec ! 😊
Awesome, thank you!
This is fascinating information as I've been a fan almost from the first album.
”Weird scenes inside the canyon” by David McGowan is a great book to learn about why all those musicians from all over the States and Canada ended up in Laurel Canyon!
Thanks for the recommendation.
That book is full of conspiracy theories, in particular that some kind of mysterious military connection brought them there and knocked them out one by one. The reality is that if you took any group of people at that time, say bricklayers, lawyers, doctors, hospital porters, you would find a military connection in their families because the military was the biggest employer at that time. I could go on, but this is sufficient for now.
I have a funny experience from college. Around mid 80s I found that a fellow student was A Flock Of Seagulls roady the day he told the class "I don't need this". We never saw him again. Apparently there were often female fans around the doors that I never noticed.
No idea what you're talking about!
I think pauline's comment on Frank's music being clinical is fascinating to me. A lot of Frank's music I find beautiful and deceptively full of emotion and life. Things like RNDZL, Revised Music For Low Budget Orchestra and Electric Guitar, Waka/Jawaka (the track not the album), and Put A Motor In Yourself have a lot of beauty to me and I would hardly describe it as clinical.
I think I said SOME of Frank's music is clinical by which I mean, you are required to listen closely to it, to the extraordinary combinations of instruments and sounds which do not always move me, but rather leave me outside looking in. Water Melon In Easter Hay, and simple love songs like Lucille among many others do the opposite, draw me in.
Most won't get this, that's okay. Frank was a true genius. A true genius is impossible to fully understand.
I agree with that.
Frank probably knew more about music than most. Gone way way too soon. Thanks for the music 🎸
Pauline Butcher is a wonderful writer and provides the best insight into Frank Zappa.
Thank you Stephen for you compliment.
@@paulinebutcherbird You've inspired me to become a better writer. Three books published and one about to be.
@@drstevemarson Okay, come on, give me the titles, and what are they about?
@@paulinebutcherbird First, I am a retired professor: Elder Suicide: Durkheim's Vision; The Routledge Handbook of Social Work Ethics and Values; Crime in Creole Countries and in press Statistics in Criminal Justice Today (Textbook). My journal articles have become playful since reading your work
@@drstevemarson And with a brain like that, you appreciate Zappa.
I listened to this book and thought it was full of fantastic stories of the very early days.
Thank you, Chebrneck. Emma Gregory does an excellent job of getting Frank and Gail's voices, especially given she's English. Do you have a favourite story from it?
Pauline...
I bought your book when it first came out. It's a fantastic read. On a par with Pamela's first book.
Except Pamela's book has been a best seller for over 20 years because it's about many rock stars and my book is mainly about Frank Zappa, sadly a much smaller, though dedicated, fan base
@@paulinebutcherbird But beautifully written and very informative about your time with Frank and co.
@@bigtone1348 Thank you Uncle Rhebus.
That was Great!ta
Thank you, Paul.
What a lovely creature.
Frank Zappa sounds like a very interesting person and an excellent musician. I just don't care for his music, except instrumentals.
Justgivemethetruth, that's very close to my view!
I wish to add that I had a lapse of memory while answering one of the questions incorrectly. I said somewhere, though I can't now find it where on the tape, that Robert Plant had given Frank a book by Aleister Crowley, but it wasn't Robert but Jimmy Page. The trouble with audio is, you can't alter it! Lt. Garber below pointed this out to me. Top marks to him.
Thank you very much for this clarification!
Seems like Frank was upfront and honest about what he wanted from people and was respectful if they refused to give him what he wanted. Anything beyond that would've been a waste of his time, which he seemed to view as something very valuable that he didn't have all that much of.
Heh. Might want to read a bit more about him. He was a great musician but a flawed human being. Said some very ugly things about people that were once close to him that were completely out of line.
I think that's a fair summary of Frank Zappa!
@@brianhammer5107 My book is the only to give Frank's daily home life from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles and more.
During the early years of its heyday, Laurel Canyon’s father figure is the rather eccentric personality known as Frank Zappa. Though he and his various Mothers of Invention line-ups will never attain the commercial success of the band headed by the admiral’s son, Frank will be a hugely influential figure among his contemporaries. Ensconced in an abode dubbed the ‘Log Cabin’ - which sat right in the heart of Laurel Canyon, at the crossroads of Laurel Canyon Boulevard and Lookout Mountain Avenue - Zappa will play host to virtually every musician who passes through the canyon in the mid- to late-1960s. He will also discover and sign numerous acts to his various Laurel Canyon-based record labels. Many of these acts will be rather bizarre and somewhat obscure characters (think Captain Beefheart and Larry “Wild Man” Fischer), but some of them, such as psychedelic rocker cum shock-rocker Alice Cooper, will go on to superstardom.
Zappa, along with certain members of his sizable entourage (the ‘Log Cabin’ was run as an early commune, with numerous hangers-on occupying various rooms in the main house and the guest house, as well as in the peculiar caves and tunnels lacing the grounds of the home; far from the quaint homestead the name seems to imply, by the way, the ‘Log Cabin’ was a cavernous five-level home that featured a 2,000+ square-foot living room with three massive chandeliers and an enormous floor-to-ceiling stone fireplace), will also be instrumental in introducing the look and attitude that will define the ‘hippie’ counterculture (although the Zappa crew preferred the label ‘Freak’). Nevertheless, Zappa (born, curiously enough, on the Winter Solstice of 1940) never really made a secret of the fact that he had nothing but contempt for the ‘hippie’ culture that he helped create and that he surrounded himself with.
Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank’s dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to - where else? - the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose.
Zappa’s manager, by the way, is a shadowy character by the name of Herb Cohen, who had come out to L.A. from the Bronx with his brother Mutt just before the music and club scene began heating up. Cohen, a former U.S. Marine, had spent a few years traveling the world before his arrival on the Laurel Canyon scene. Those travels, curiously, had taken him to the Congo in 1961, at the very time that leftist Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba was being tortured and killed by our very own CIA. Not to worry though; according to one of Zappa’s biographers, Cohen wasn’t in the Congo on some kind of nefarious intelligence mission. No, he was there, believe it or not, to supply arms to Lumumba “in defiance of the CIA.” Because, you know, that is the kind of thing that globetrotting ex-Marines did in those days (as we’ll see soon enough when we take a look at another Laurel Canyon luminary).
Making up the other half of Laurel Canyon’s First Family is Frank’s wife, Gail Zappa, known formerly as Adelaide Sloatman. Gail hails from a long line of career Naval officers, including her father, who spent his life working on classified nuclear weapons research for the U.S. Navy. Gail herself had once worked as a secretary for the Office of Naval Research and Development (she also once told an interviewer that she had “heard voices all [her] life”). Many years before their nearly simultaneous arrival in Laurel Canyon, Gail had attended a Naval kindergarten with “Mr. Mojo Risin’” himself, Jim Morrison (it is claimed that, as children, Gail once hit Jim over the head with a hammer). The very same Jim Morrison had later attended the same Alexandria, Virginia high school as two other future Laurel Canyon luminaries - John Phillips and Cass Elliot.
A few mistakes and inferences in this. First, the log cabin was on one floor with a basement under the complete length. There was an upper floor at both ends of the house, comprising four bedrooms. The inference that there was some weird and sinister military connection in both the Zappa and Sloatman families that echoed the rock scene in LA in 1960s, is far fetched. The military at that time was one of the biggest employers in the US and if you took any group at that time, ie lawyers, bricklayers, teachers, etc, you would find in their families people working for the military.
FZ was like many groundbreakers - outrageous, extremely hard-working, revolutionary, talented, capable of great creativity, and equally great ugliness.
NOPE. Nothing ugly about a MAN who knows wo-MEN were created to serve & please
@@josephesposito3499 Josephine, you astound me.
In the late '60s & early 70s, I had a school friend who was an avid music fan like myself. One day he came out that his Auntie worked for Frank Zappa in America. Honestly I did not really believe him until many years later I read Franks auto biography & he mentioned this lady, Pauline Butcher. My friend was Stephen Butcher [ sadly now deceased], son of Englishman John Butcher who emigrated to NZ . Stephen would always have the best & latest music albums,[ Let it Be & Woodstock Set] whether from Pauline or not, not sure. Cheers from NZ.
How nice to read your comment which I've only just seen. Stephen was indeed my nephew, the son of my brother, John Butcher. Both, as you say, sadly died, Stephen tragically young. Frank's book is of course a must for all Zappa fans, but he leaves out a huge amount of daily detail not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing at the piano, rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. Finally, I wish to add a thank you to Jeff Starr for giving me this platform.
Oh man! Ive got to check this book out! Zappa was a musician's musician. People who understand the complexity and originality of his work know what a genius he was, and of course he was very interesting personally as well. Can't wait to read this book.
I've read it, it's a GREAT book!
It is my story, but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Sounds like he had Asperger's Syndrome, in the genius spectrum. About as hard to give a cheery nod to and expect one back as from Lou Reed or Mark E Smith. Love the way he seemed to be tuning into something divine and astral when he lit rip with the guitar. Maybe its written but it sounds entirely natural.
This hint of Apserger's Syndrome keeps being mentioned. I think it's stretching a point to suggest Frank had a mental illness. He showed no signs of the symptoms, other than his unwillingness to socialise and perhaps his obsessive work style. For me, he doesn't have enough of the symptoms to include him in the category.
@@paulinebutcherbird Fair enough, you were close to him for long enough. I only saw him the once and even then only his back, as he preformed the whole gig with his back to us (London, 1985-ish).
Thanks for this. I am a huge Zappa fanatic (and a guitarist) and saw him live in NY and the surrounds many times from late 70’s to mid-80’s or so. I also have read several books and watched several movies and even was a contributor to the Alex Winter Kickstarter campaign which involved digitizing tons of mixed media in his “vault” and ultimately resulted in making the Doc film “Who the F*%% is Frank Zappa”, which I was somewhat disappointed in, but that’s a conversation for another place and time. Of course I have also poured over the treasure trove of Zappa material on YT. With that backdrop, I just wanted to say I am looking forward to reading the book and felt the author was very well spoken, interesting, articulate and concise. Regardless as to whether she loved or hated his music or even has much musical knowledge at all, she offers another unique perspective on the complex divisive genius of FZ. I will say that his view of woman expressed in many of his songs, is undoubtedly those he was most exposed to on the road and as a working musician in the 60’s and 70’s, including the so-called groupies. And as was suggested, he poked fun at everyone not just woman. Cheers!
How did you feel when you prowled round the Vault in Frank Zappa's house. Even thinking about how the contents had to be moved makes me feel sad.
@@paulinebutcherbird I did not lay foot in the vault. I was very happy to be a part of helping to preserve his documented legacy.
@@adamkrauss303 I can imagine it must have been consoling to help in the Winter film. I too was underwhelmed by the film but, as you say, that's part of another thread. Thank you for your kind words about my contribution to the Zappa world.
Without the shit ugly zappa, the music World would be much better 😂
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
Book is amazing, one of the top 3 Zappa related books ever. I ve read it last year and totally loved it.
Thank you rayrecordings. What does your name mean? That you make recordings?
@@paulinebutcherbird indeed. I am a ( seasoned:) record producer and been a huge fan of Frank for my entire life
@@rayrecordings Well, you must have a book to write! I cannot imagine being a record producer in this day and age. In this country (UK) The BBC carry Frank's name on despite hardly anyone knowing who he is. They had a guy on Mastermind TV program who had Frank Zappa as his specialist subject and had some very difficult questions to answer, and BBC radio 4 featured him in their Great Lives series last week but it was very hackneyed stuff.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, yes I am 58 and lived music in the 70’s and the 80’s when everything was authentic and an exciting discovery. I try to smooth down the dichotomy between that era and today by transmitting my passion for music to my students ( I teach at a modern music conservatory). It’s great to see 22-25 yo people loving the music of Frank, Yes, Genesis…And by reading books like your fantastic and emotional memoire.
@@rayrecordings Well, it was good meeting you here and thanks again for your kind words. I, too, am impressed by the number of videos on YT of young musicians in universities playing Frank's music and doing it fantastically well. Hopefully some of your women students might like my memoir too as I would like to reach the women's market. 🎶🎶
Great book!!! I've often wondered about that Raven guy. Where'd he end up I wonder.
None of us know except that he came from San Diego and had travelled up.
Social context is everything and the context of today is the opposite of the context of then.
This was a great interview and very insightful of a brilliant artist’s life and times through her experiences.
I am committed to getting the book.
Thank you, DXR. There is a lot more in the book of course that I could not cover in the interview.
@@paulinebutcherbird You are quiet welcome...looking forward to receiving my copy. It should be a great read for me.
@@MrDXRamirez Thank you, and I welcome questions and comments, especially from discerning readers. Do be aware, it is my story but reveals Frank's home life not shown in other books.
Context has nothing to do with it. FRANK had the RIGHT VIEWS about wo-MEN. MEN are the leaders and wo-MEN are to OBEY. This is in the bible. Frank said he was atheist, but his behavior was very biblical, especially his views about wo-MEN. God bless Frank, he did NOTHING wrong. To tell you the truth, Pauline is a stuffy fEMINIST
There were some excellent questions asked.
Great job.
Thank you very much!
Totally agree.
Good one...
Thank you 🙂
Wonderful interview - I could listen to Ms. Butcher tell stories all day. And to this Yank she sounds like royalty.
Ahhh! Emlizardo, you've made my day start with a smile.
Hi Pauline. I know it's in your book but i think alot of Zappa freaks would really love to know about his relationship with the talented Ian Underwood and his talented wife Ruth. pxx
6:15 "Laurel Canyon was like a fairyland." I can only imagine. I later lived on N. Fairfax just a few blocks from the foot of Laurel Canyon Blvd in '79 and I WISH I could have lived there in the '60s. Talk about a near-utopia for a young person. My brother and I met a guy in W. Hollywood (I think he was gay as he picked my brother up hitchhiking)
but he gave us 3-4 boxes of 8 x 10 glossies of the Turtles taken while on tour in 1966, like, in bus stations/airports, etc. I held onto them for years but eventually tossed them. Wish I hadn't.
My God @notbadfilms, the Robert Plant gift is a revelation...makes me think a lot of theories. So Robert gave Frank an Aleister Crowley book...not good, wow. Thank you so much for uploading this, GREAT STUFF. Mind if i sample this small bit for my channel for a video? Thank you
JCM, I made a mistake. It was not Robert Plant who gave Gail, not Frank, actually, the Aleister Crowley book, but Jimmy Page. Gail then gave it to Frank. I do make a correction at the top of these comments, but it's worth repeating. I think Jeff is busy on other things at the moment, so you may not get a reply.
I wonder is Frank changed as a father as the years progressed. I read or saw a podcast where Moon said in order to spend some time to get to know her father she decided to get involved with his work, the end result being the collaboration of “Vally girl” which became a money spinner and allowed Frank to stop touring and concentrate on composing. It also (in Franks words) changed the dynamics of their family giving Moon more status.
I know all of your comment except the last part. 'It also changed the dynamics of their family giving Moon more status.' I haven't seen that interview. Do you have alink for it, please? In my interview with him on parenting (in RUclips Pauline Butcher interviews Frank Zappa) he viewed himself as a good father and in his terms he was. Though an absent father as much as one who is at sea for six months of the year and then remote when they return, he was a good father in my opinion, not as good as some and certainly not as bad as some others!
@@paulinebutcherbird your in luck, I found it
ruclips.net/video/kPjKacvp6iU/видео.html
@@ronsummers4090 Okay, so what's the link?
@@paulinebutcherbird I send it in the previous text
You're a classy lady, Pauline. Thank you for the interview and book.
Nice compliment. Thank you.
We got the e-book and it was great news. Stuff I never knew before.
The e-book, at present, is the old version. I like the new version better, but I'm so glad you are happy with the original.
Without the shit ugly zappa, the music World would be much better
He was an insult to other composers
Pauline...May i ask a question/...Many people want to know about the tunnels built that travelled to the house that Houdini once stayed in across the road...Some say the city later used them for storm water ...but it was said there was an elevator and the tunnels were not crude but were professionally cut and lit with a lighting system..Did you have any understanding of these tunnels.
Mike, I didn't have any knowledge or curiosity about those tunnels as I'm claustrophobic. I reluctantly went down to the basement from where the tunnel was supposed to go. The only person I could now ask is Sparky (GTO) who lived at the log cabin after we left. There is a documentary on RUclips about the tunnels. No one seems to have found them, but there is enough rumour to suggest that something must have been there, but it was nothing to do with Houdini who aparently lived across the other side of Laurel Canyon for only a few months and even then was a tenant, not an owner. There is one other person I could ask if I can trace him. His mother owned the log cabin.
@@paulinebutcherbird That true about Houdini not livng across the road but being a house guest of the owner...I think or believe he rented a place not to far away but not direct acorss the road...I was watching a series on Laurel canyon 1964-1975 and the muso's that lived there and that matter of the tunnels arose....The question is what was there initial purpose..The house across the road was owned in the early decades by a very wealthy man and I wonder why you would tunnel between the properties when in those days the traffic would be nil...Thank you
@@mikedemike5393 The mystery remains. If I ever get to speak to the guy whose mother owned the log cabin, I will ask him what he knows.
Groovy!
Groovy! One of the words I had to learn when I got to Hollywood along with ‘where it’s at, gross, outtasight, hung up, boss,’ among others.
@@paulinebutcherbird Haha. Wowie Zowie!
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
So much for Zappa. He and his music were mainly a source of humor for me, and mild recognition of the technical prowess. There is nothing there that nourishes me year after year. He was valuable in pointing out the flaws of business and government.
The stature of Frank Zappa, I think, is that he could play in every sphere, doo-wop, classical, blues, rock'n'roll and jazz, and not one of these was specific to his music. There are few artists that could cover such a wide range and include satire and political commentary as well.
Anyone who has been in a band knows that band leaders can be tyrants when it suits them. Frank Zappa was an absolute genius composer and a superb guitarist.
I agree and wish I'd spoken more about his music.
@@paulinebutcherbird That's OK - there are so many who have analysed his music, but nobody who has seen what you have seen. I've ordered the book now & I'm waiting for it to arrive to the Åland islands in June (!).
@@Krabadaque I looked up Alan islands as I had no idea where they were. Finland, how interesting. Many Zappa fans there?
@@paulinebutcherbird "You Can't do that on Stage Anymore" Volume 2 is an entire show from Finland. I guess they liked him enough for him to tour there.
@@alancumming6407 And then you came second in EuroVision competition. Not that it's got anything to do with anything on this thread, but still . . .
Being able to diffuse a situation can be a talent, or something he had learned. Magic is so hippie a word. We need more Zappas to work with emergencies
Debra, it's unusual to come across a female Zappa fan. I do believe you are the first one out of 500+ comments to do so!
This was a fascinating interview! Thanks to you both :) I am a fan of Frank Zappa, and also Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull). I have read that Frank had wanted to speak with Ian before he died, and that Ian had heard that, but had been too scared to call Frank etc etc.....what is the truth there? Did Frank have anything to say to IA?
PS - I'm going to buy that book :)
I wasn't there during Frank's last days but I do get feedback from those who were and it appears that Gail was a stern gatekeeper. I imagine that she would have let Ian Anderson through had he phoned because she remained a groupie to the end of her days!
@@aqualung4359 Did you get it?
Frank Zappa. A peace maker. I didn't know this.
I didn't know that either!
Before you judge Frank Zappa, you must understand the times he lived in, what the culture was at the time, what he went through, and what his professional universe was like. Before he was a composer, he was a man. And if you are creating great things, you would naturally expect certain benefits not readily available to the common person. I don't know if a culture of free love and unrestrained sex still occurs in the world of rock music with new bands today. It's a pity his obsession with cigarette smoking cost him his life. Such a smart man, such a stupid habit
I cannot disagree with anything you say. Thank you showing empathy.
In one of interviews Zappa said he liked smoking...
He was against drugs, they had no affect him.
As someone who moved to California from England, I enjoyed reading how Pauline adjusted to life out here, as it was very similar to my own experiences. And of course, all the stuff about Frank Zappa!
Loved your comment. When did you locate to California, and give me one example of your experience similar to mine. I would love to know. It's why John Mayall and I became friends, when he stayed at the log cabin for two weeks because we shared for that short while, the same language. Hard to explain to those not experiencing it.
@@paulinebutcherbird I have lived in Southern California now since 2001, but it was just little things, like how American toilets are different from English ones. It's been a long time since I read your book (I need to read it again soon!), so I don't remember the things you said, but I definitely understood it!
@@AndyMmusic The new version is much improved over the original if you can stretch that far, but thank you for reading the book. Part of the difference for me related to language: moche, groovy, gross, spiffy, hung up, bad vibes, boss, to name a few. Also, it was three months before I bought my first pair of jeans and a t-shirt!
I, too, disliked the Radio 4 play, and I remember cringing over the same part as Pauline. I thought about recommending it to my friend but decided not to because I didn't think it did the book justice. Great interview.
Thank you, TheWhippinpost. It was a 45 minute play so a lot to cram. I was surprised by the parts they chose. In its own terms, it was okay though and Pick of the Week chose an early scene as something worth listening to.
Pauline’s book is brilliant! One of the most evocative Zappa books yet written, and I’ve read hundreds!
Thank you, terrypussypower!
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣 🤣
Yes. It was an eye opening humdinger.
@@albertog7245 Ah, thank you, Alberto. 'Eye opening humdinger'! Not heard that before.
Zappa died like a miserable bum at the end 🤣 🤣 🤣
Glad I found this fascinating interview. I'd like to ask Pauline if she thought Zappa was a genius.
It's a difficult question because the word 'genius' means different things to different people. If I lower the bar and judge his brilliant stage performances, his ability to switch between doo-wop, jazz, rock'n'roll, classical and satire, then I do consider he was a genius because no one else could do that on stage. He was unique. However, if I raise the bar to compare him with generally accepted geniuses like Isaac Newton who understood gravity, or Einstein and his theory of relativity, and many other in the scientific field, than no, his genius does not compare.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thank you for letting me know. I don't think one has to lower the bar in his case, it's a matter of an individual standing out to the extent that they do in their chosen field, which he certainly did.
As for Newton, Einstein etc, perhaps Zappa could have been on that level in addition to his artistic ability, but I suspect his modesty would stop us from knowing about it.
@@mrh9635 Exactly. Once you define what you mean by genius, ie being outstanding in their individual field, then yes, I think we agree, in that respect he was a genius.
I’m really quite curious about why Frank strongly believed that only one party could be polyamorous for the relationship to work. Given him and Gail were still on the verge of divorce a lot and he was also distant from her as Pauline described, I don’t know if her having flings without love as he did would have mattered, or if that was all an excuse for him being possibly controlling and possessive of women in his life.
I wonder this too. In reading Pauline's book I think there are times when Frank comes off as passive aggressive and controlling in a narcissistic manner. Yet in speaking to her and others about their interactions with Frank they seem to dispute this.
I do think I've given an unfair overall view of Frank and Gail's relationship. I've implied he brought home endless women but in fact there were four in all that I know of over the time of their marriage. When Gail rebelled and left him to live with her brother and there may have been other occasions, Frank chased after her each time. And then he trusted her to run his business which I cannot think of many men doing. He gave her status. One could argue that at least he was honest in his affairs. How many men who are unfaithful can own up to that?
I have always felt like that small period of in time in laurel Canyon was like a fairyland. It was an interesting point in time and space.
It was and then it was all ruined partly by the increasing use of heavy drugs and more importantly by the Manson murders in a Canyon not far away.
Actually this woman made me change my mind about reading her book. She is very sycophantic, he wrote some great tunes and was a super good guitar player, not a scientist discovering a cure for cancer
Ah, Chickengorge, sorry about that. You win some, you lose some. But are you sure you've got the right word? You mean I grovelled, fawned, gushed to Frank for his favour? One time I told him off because he left his fan letters all over the floor and I couldn't tell which envelope belonged to which note.
@@paulinebutcherbird you did rather sound like you pedalstalised him a tad... But that happens with musicians, especially dead ones.
You are right though... The wrong word..... Unless you were praising him to sell your book 😉
@@MassiveLib I'm astonished at your comments. There was me worrying that I'd said too many negative things about Frank - his womanising, his being cold toward the Mothers, his attitude toward women, and so on. Admittedly, I forgave him everything, but I thought I showed a balanced view.
@@paulinebutcherbird you have to understand that the difference between your view and my own is a trillion miles apart. You met him, to me he's a bloke in an album cover...
Both voices make wy eyes water.
You’re welcome?
Wildman Fischer was the Daniel Larson of the 60's
I think she's stumbled upon something... that Frank, though he would probably disagree, did approach music in a more clinical sense... that his pieces could have sounded cold and overly complex, were it not for the sake of the people he employed... if you look at Hot Rats, it started with a long electric blues violin figure and then that morphed into Peaches, which is obviously the centerpiece of the LP... AND willy the pimp, has Beefheart's stamp all over it... and I credit Shuggie Otis in bringing the former to life. With Ruth and Ian... and while Frank knew what he liked when he heard it, I think that there were people on that album that truly deserved a writing credit.
Interesting. I hope others will pick up your view here. Would you mind if I copy your comment to use on my Facebook page for comment?
@pauline butcher bird certainly! I've read a lot about Frank, listened to it all and am a musician myself, of some note. I've written a 900 page book about my 16 years with a girl who was my best friend, bandmate, collaborateur and wife.. all before I lost her in the second month of her 35th year. I was sure we would make a mark. And I'm convinced that she still will. Luckily, I saved every bit of memorandum... my sentimental nature proved handy. We recorded and worked on about 100 songs as well ad lived a great life together... the kind I know few have had... Kari used to ask me what I would do when we got famous and I said, pretty much what I do now... maybe a bit more! Lol.
This was our last song, to give you an idea of the level of our work ... thank you for your interesting take on Frank!
ruclips.net/video/HNnayiJLHqk/видео.html
@@seansweeney3532 I watched the video and it's beautiful. Nothing clinical here. I looked on i-tunes but didn't see it. Where would it be sold?
Hot Rats starts with Peaches En Regalia. In 1969 it was startling to hear sounds like that even before you entered the rest of the album. What is the long electric blues violin figure you are referring to? Off the top of my head the only song that starts like that is Directly From My Heart to You on "Weasels..." which of course is not a Zappa composition.
@alancumming6407 Believe it or not, it was peaches that started as a long electric violin blues solo.. Frank was really good at editing and basically when he had a sixteen track tape machine, he would do things that other people simply couldn't at that time... Things that only Brian Eno surpassed him with. The era of multi track recordings go away back to a single called "sally go round the roses" in which a local producer hired a number of female singers to interpret these lyrics he had written, And also hired musicians as well... In all, he probably "auditioned" about 100 people in recording their ideas, and a lot of them were kept in "vine" form for this multi Track recording... Basically, he would record what they interpreted and make notes on what he liked and then make safety copies, Using Hey, click track generated by something reliable like a Hammond drum machine or a similar electronic device that would give consistent BPM clicks... And then the next people would come in and he would record and then make notes and then more safety copies, but only of their solo'd parts. ... And in the end he had a song that was basically organically composed... by OTHER people... but something he could put his stamp and publish it himself.
If you look at that song's history, you'll see that there's a number of people that claim to have written/performed it or helped with that.... Zappa was kind of the same way... Like Steely Dan (who also used this method, hiring teams of musicians, all of whom had signed off on ever taking credit for what likely would be their own creative work; IE: Katy Lied Was an LP that Steely Dan members didn't actually even play on!), He liked to assemble bands of crack musicians to interpret the things he wrote, Which in embryo and in those days could be rather austere, with just some suggestions, a key center and maybe part of a "head".... Guys would come in and interpret and then they would also improvise. Shuggie Otis was one such, who apparently couldn't read music, so it's very likely his part was completely improvised... It was one such improvisation that inspired him to write the part that became the head of peaches... And basically, with the help of Ruth, he was able to compose the whole front "head" section and then make a loose solo section for guitar and such, and then the heavily syncopated section with the organ and marimba parts... (which bears Ruth and Ian's stamp every bit as much and as recognizable as Zappa's).... And that's pretty much the whole song. He discussed the creation and composition. I believe on an interview I heard on NPR a longtime ago.
I was sooo much waiting when she talked about cal schenkel that that was exactly the time captain beefheart did trout mask replica with frank producing and nothing? That was one of the reasons I wanted to listen to hear a little about the wolf. Oohhwwwoo ! Oh well good listen 🙏🏻
"She made a bet with her sister who's a little bit dumb, she could prove it anytime all men was scum". He made me laugh, and I was at all his shows in London, and he was loud and the band were loud, and the audience went crazy, he played 2 hours and more, back then sometimes till midnight, fantastic guitar
solo's, five sometimes nearly ten minutes. Steve Via just stood side stage when Frank played!
Where were the shows?
It’s still blows my mind that a guy like Frank Zappa, making the (amazing(ly weird)) music he did, could own a house and pay a live-in secretary
He made a lot of money despite no one playing his music on the radio. He was a very clever businessman, another aspect I didn't touch on.
Different times, musicians were respected back then.
With shit zappa fans, its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 🤣 🤣
@@TheChipMcDonald Note of bitterness in those words? I don't think musicians were any more respected then than now. It was just that Frank Zappa made people respect him. When Paul McCartney said he would have to ask his manager if it was all right for Frank to do the copy of Sergeant Pepper, and Frank replied, I tell my manager what to do, he does what I tell him.
@@paulinebutcherbird Maybe you're not aware, but most recording studios are closed now. There are no record labels financially backing artists. DJs are "musicians". Music is effectively free. People are raised on monophonic music, hardly any melody, and have little cognition of the effort that goes into being a Professional Musician. Frank was talking about this already happening in the early 80s. It is no longer viewed as art, and the perception of "art" has been reduced to "something someone that anyone can do if they bothered for a few hours". YMMV.
Love all his stuff. I may be totally wrong but Ima
'Ima' ?
pauline butcher`s striking description of frank zappa has him showing all the hallmarks of an out-and-out narcissist. this goes some way towards explaining
why frank seemed so "complex", or even "contradictory"; when in actual fact frank zappa simply thought, said or did whatever the fvck he wanted. all the more
surprising, then, that pauline (as a trained psychologist, no less) doesn`t mention his rather obvious clinical narcissism. perhaps grace slick of jefferson airplane
put it best when she described frank zappa as "the most intelligent a*sehole I`ve ever met in my life".
I replied to this. I don't know where it's gone. I don't consider Frank was clincially narcissistic. Yes, he might have had an element of that but I imagine all stars carry it, too. But he never surrounded himself with adorers. When the GTOs told him, 'We love you Mr Zappa' he responded with, 'You little vixen you.' When an interviewer remarked fans seemed to think he was some kind of God, he replied, 'I am God to three people, my wife, Moon and Dweezil.'
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks for your reply, and fair enough. we`re all narcissistic to some degree, of course, and rightfully so: narcissism is not
a clinical condition per se. however, I would argue that your examples do not necessarily preclude the possibility of a clinical case, either: a highly
intelligent, manipulative narcissist would be well equipped to come up with the requisite answers that you cite. be that as it may, I have still enjoyed
big parts of frank`s music for almost fifty years, and will continue to do so: narcissism, or not! all the best, g.
@@donkeyshot8472 Glad we got that sorted. Thanks.
@@donkeyshot8472 I agree that Frank was narcistic to a greater degree than most of us, whether that was to a clinical level , I don't think so. Anyhow, I think we've covered it. Thanks for a healthy discussion.
Cool interview. I once met Cal Schenkel at the Ann Arbor Art Fair in MI in the 70s.
Tell us more, please! 😄 What did you talk about?
I answered this once but it seems to have disappeared. I've always been a Zappa fan also I've worked as a graphic artist since 1981 I was a young art student when I met Cal. We talked about. Zappa's music Cal's cover illustrations and Ann Arbor life in the 70s.
Nice lady!
I bought this book a few years back. If you're a fan of Frank Zappa you'll want to own it.
Thank you, Grok, I believe that version is out of print now so it might become a collector's item. However, the new version is superior in as much as it's better put together and structured. I've still got my original of course.
@@paulinebutcherbird My real name is David. My older brothers were fans of Frank Zappa and other acts from that era, so I gained interest from them. Thank you for responding, Ma'am.
@@grokeffer6226 Grok is a joke, is it?
@@paulinebutcherbird yes
Great interview with a great lady.
Thank you, Peri.
wowzerz
this is fantastic listening
I generally don't idolize people, but if i was forced to needing to admire at least one person to that extent, Frank would probably be my choice.
So pleased you feel that way. Some viewers have become critical of Frank after listening, and I regret that.
With shit zappa fans , its like with mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit 😂😂
I'd say someone like Frank Zappa was more honest with women than most men. He could handle rejection whereas some can't and then in turn get nasty. There are blurred lines now and men are terrified of making their intentions clear, (which is usually just sex) and can complicate things even further. Men and Women are now weak. I get the feeling Frank would agree alot more with a feminist such as Camille Paglia than Kate Millet. Brilliant interview.
Thank you for watching. It was an honor to interview Pauline.
@@JeffStarr she's cool. Brilliant questions with great flow.
Thankyou for bringing Camille Paglia to my attention. I closed down feminist rhetoric some time back because of the constant mud-slinging back and forth. I don't know what Frank would have thought of her given when I was there, he thought Women's Liberation was all about dykes. I hope you're right. I hope he would have matured and acknowledged feminism's worthiness. The paradox is that, at that time, he was the only man to encourage me, a woman, to succeed as a writer, but then Frank was full of these contradictions.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI just thought, both Frank and Camille are Italian. President and Vice President, could you imagine? I really enjoyed your interview, Pauline. Thank you for your reply.
@@quaid667 And you, too, Jamie for your interesting comment. .
Lovely interview, Pauline. You're looking very well ;)
Thankyou, Fuzzbee. I wish I'd worn something less 'old-lady' 😒
This was an excellent interview.
Pauline, if you don't mind please, did he jam with any of the more popular musicians of that time? Did Hendrix visit and did they ever play together? What about Beck etc? Any recollections?
Televin V, really you should read the book! But I'll be generous. The only group that Frank went to see while I was there was John Mayall and I can't remember without looking it up, which club it was in. And the only reason Frank went there was because John was staying at the log cabin with us. Frank had no interest in other rock stars. When two of the Pink Floyd visited, he took them to the studio and played his recently recorded stuff for them. There was no socialising. He did socialise with Mick Jagger and I have a whole chapter on him. Jeff Beck came with Rod Stewart to the house one night while Frank, Gail and I were at the studio with him. When we got back, Rod and Jeff were having a food fight in the kitchen. Frank walked through and ignored them. I've said this in the interview so I'm not telling you anything new. They also turned up at the studio when the GTOs were recording their album. Rod sings and Jeff plays on the album.
@pauline butcher bird yes, I heard you mention most of this in the interview.
Thanks for responding.
For a blues fan, you'd think he would have loved to hear John Mayall live.
Then again, it seems like F.Z. was dismissive of most popular musicians except for a handful of them.
Maybe it has to do with their drug/booze habits?
@@televinv8062 I can't answer the question with any knowledge. It might have been their drug problems. I never heard him listen to other people's music so I was always astonished when, in interviews, he was asked about other people's music and seemed to know all about it. I think you will find better answers than I can give from those interviews. When I admired Leonard Cohen's music and he decried it on the basis of it being silly love songs, I thought to myself, well, when have you ever heard Cohen's music. I never knew how that happened. Maybe someone else can help.
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks Pauline!
Best wishes!!
@@paulinebutcherbird Hej Pauline. I read somewhere that Frank called Jim Morrison a "buffoon" and also jumped on Morrison in another song. That was very very unfair. Morrison was an alcoholic and often behaved very badly, but he was a very intelligen person too. The Doors and Frank Zappa are the only music I listen to these days. Nothing else is up to their standard. Kudos to you.
Frank was a complex figure. I love his music. But like many fans I struggle sometimes with his attitudes to women. The world moved on in the sixties and the emergence of feminism was a necessary movement towards greater equality between the sexes. He was a product of the time.
The interesting question is how he would have dealt with the Me-Too movement. I think he would have scorned that too, just as I do, so I wouldn't have minded that. I think he would have modified his views. Remember he was the only man I had met at that time who encouraged me to be a writer.
Superb interview ! You read the book, thought about it and it shows. Very professional and interesting.
That is a very kind and nice comment. Thank you, Mars.
I hope that was a mis-type and you meant, 'you wrote the book'.
@@paulinebutcherbird Pauline, I was talking about the interviewer and his great curiosity about your book and Frank's life. I know you are the author and you did a fantastic job ! I'm from Canada and I'm a big fan of FZ music. I saw him once in he mid eighties.
@@marsattacks7071 Of course, on re-reading, I see what your original comment meant. I, too, admire Jeff's detailed understanding of the book which is revealed in his questions, and also his wonderful design of the video itself.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
Pauline, I’m really happy that you spoke about Frank’s lyrics so frankly (hah). I love his music a lot, but the ways he wrote about women really bother me and prevent me from enjoying the music more. I have also had the thought that he wrote terrible lyrics about men too, but what strikes me is that the power dynamic is always the same: gross, predatory men and dumb, objectified women. And he always seemed to take joy in “playing” those male characters.
It’s certainly complicated and a huge point of debate, which I am up for. But I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your confidence in bringing up a tough subject.
James, I appreciate your reply because most Zappa fans are protective for Frank's lyrics and complain when I voice dislike for his very contentious lyrics like 'Bamboozled by love' or 'Magdalena' . They maintain that Frank is merely highlighting what is going on in the world. I wonder why anyone can see those songs as entertainment. The usual comeback is 'you don't get it.' I then argue that we all have limits and Frank clearly had a limit on child abuse as he has no songs on the matter. I have a limit on women-abuse.
Frank was a product of his generation even though he was years ahead of his time. I’m 64 y/o and I can tell you that in the early 60s parents could beat the crap out of their kids and no one said a word. You can’t judge Frank by today’s standards. The 60s changed everything. 31:29
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Pauline was also a product of that time, and is appalled by some of Frank's lyrics. Plenty of people of their age would feel the same. It's not "today's standards", its the standards of that time too. I can and will criticize Zappa for some of his worst lyrics, and this is speaking as a fan as well.
@@michaelrosenberg2030 Michael, I wish I could agree with you but inevitably we can and do judge by today's standards - we don't approve of capital punishment and, as you mention, walloping a child, among a list of things that today are no longer acceptable. I agree with James Cerone. Frank criticised practically everyone so it's only right that he himself cannot be above criticism where criticism is due. We are criticising some of his lyrics, not the man.
Frank liked to pillory human stupidity, while at the same time being strangely compassionate about it. And the kind of female archetypes, as well as the male ones, that he made up lyrics about were all too common at the time. This was what he wrote about, and he was always upfront about the absurdity of it all.
What an absolute monster Zappa was.
Oh, dear. I didn't mean to give that impression. What in particular did I say to indicate that?
For the record: $10,000 divided by eight is $1,250 not $140.
Did I say that in the interview? Thank you for the correction. Of course you are right.
@@paulinebutcherbird Naturally I’m correct: I used my fingers and toes to crunch the numbers.
@@charleswinokoor6023 Do you have the number place in the interview where I say it?
@@paulinebutcherbird It was a voice-o, nothing to worry about.
Liked this interview, more incite than the time I had a back and forth with her trying to pick her brain. I think she was pushing her book so might have been slightly cagey. Although over time my views on Zappa had changed and she was vaguely correcting some of my assumptions. However being older, I now say, unless you actually live with someone, you don't have a chance in hell of knowing much about them. After this interview I might say the people who did live with Frank weren't or couldn't have been clued in much better because he was so distant.
I'm intrigued. When did I do an interview with you and where was it published? It doesn't sound like me. There is some truth to what you say. Frank was closed in. He didn't want to reveal himself or let go. With his bands, he did the same - watched their antics and didn't get involved. Filmed them, recorded them and kept a distance. Yet I found him enchanting and although I could criticise him and see his faults, found him awe-inspiring - well, that is until Women's Liberation came along.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think I responded to a video where you were being interviewed. I remember the story about gun but you described it in less detail. I was on another channel and I do use other names. Not that I think of Frank all the time but I was probably still impressed as I was as a teen with some of his arguments centering around the PMRC debate. It was several years ago. I'm 52 and older now and my views are more refined. I would have to research it. It wasn't like we were talking in person, so I only assumed it was you. I'm pretty sure it was though but could easily be wrong online. Maybe my choice of words is throwing you off. Let me rephrase cagey, this interview is more in depth and detail. People from certain generations and backgrounds act a certain way. A lot of macho guys don't like some of the things I say. I'm not a feminist, I'm a realist, and there is a whole lot of posturing going on and facades. Man and woman are different but in many ways the same.
@@paulinebutcherbird Btw as best as I can tell so far it was 10 years ago. I really can't remember or curreently find anything. I'm wondering now if it was on another platform like facebook or here as well. I was looking for ideas for writing some songs about Laurel Canyon. I think i wound up writing one ha! Although it was inspired by a more cynical view of Laurel Canyon.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 This conversation could go on and on, dealing with the different tributaries you've opened up. I am a realist, too, but also a feminist. I concur - men and women are different and these differences should always be acknowledged.
@@BILLYMORGAN1971 It was not difficult to be cynical about Laurel Canyon, especially after the Manson murders although of course they occurred in a different Canyon several miles off.
He didn't stay informed, he didn't watch TV...
Frank Zappa didn't watch TV, nor did anyone else in the house during the time I was there 1968-1971. I imagine as the children grew up, they imposed pressure on Frank to allow them to watch it and gradually by the time Moon and Dweezil were teenagers they were auditioning for parts in sit-coms on TV. Later, Frank spoke about watching CNN news and the bias and flaws in their broadcasting (as if no one else noticed.)
@@paulinebutcherbird Thanks for the reply! I was just pointing out how funny the logic was in that statement in the interview.
You think TV tells the truth?
Smh