How Disney Destroyed Education and Culture
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Disney today is plagued by an intellectual property mandate, one that does not trust park guests to engage with the parks in a meaningful way unless there's a character or franchise attached. While there's nothing inherently wrong with the use of IP in the parks, Disney has had such a richer history of attraction design that drew meaningfully from culture and was often educational. Today, we reflect back on the history of education in the Disney parks, a once important and defining component that has been largely erased in the Iger era.
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This channel and Jenny Nicholson are the two RUclipsrs that Disney should be CLOSELY listening to. I really appreciate what you do, putting together what I do believe a lot of longtime Disney park fans absolutely agree with but may have trouble articulating. But you always spell it out so concisely.
Having depth beyond a character or brand is extremely important to how well an attraction resonates with people. Recently I was discussing how even something like Tower of Terror inspires you to think about more than the attraction or IP at face value - the golden age of Hollywood, the allure of abandoned places, old analog technology, the idea that something that was once grand and important can be forgotten, etc.
Yeah, I think the reason that executives don't see the issue of the direction they're taking the parks is because the park experience is so complex. It's not as simple as "this is good" and "this is bad", but it definitely doesn't resonate like it used to and a lot of people have a hard time articulating or understanding why, even if they enjoyed something in the moment. It's the difference between having "fun" which you can have anywhere, versus having an experience that feels elevated into something different. Unfortunately, Disney is just becoming "fun" and I can have fun pretty much everywhere.
@@PoseidonEntertainmentdid you see the document high-lighting their target audience? It's first-time visitors in the highest income brackets. This demographic spends the most money per visit. So they're going all in on them. Which is why the annual pass holders are getting stripped off their perks each year.
I think the reason that Disney's parks are going downhill is because they're treating it like a restaurant at a touristy spot: there's no need to invest in quality, because they're not counting on repeat visitors. They're looking for wealthier first-timers to splurge and never come back.
Secondly, I think they've also learned to give audiences what they want. Where in the past they gave them what they didn't know they wanted. Detailed and careful theming is what I'm most interested in. Theme parks are a type of amusement parks. And most people who go to theme parks aren't necessarily fans of theme parks, but they're fans of amusement parks. And the theming is essentially just a pretty decoration to them. Theme park enthusiasts, people who enjoy theming and seeing it applied consistently within a themed area, are a tiny minority of the overall theme park visiting public. Which is dominated by amusement park fans. And not really worth catering to as they don't represent the most profitable demographic.
I live in Europe, and both DLP and Efteling have fallen victim to blandification and the removal of theming. The general audience simply doesn't care and leadership is afraid of giving people what they don't know they want.
Sure, Jenny Nicholson making a video on The Galactic Starcruiser years after people had been making videos about the flaws in the business model and months after it was announced to close is the person that Disney should be listening to... She really has her hand directly on the pulse of popular culture, that Jenny Nicholson.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 None of those other videos went viral, or were anywhere near as in depth, or will have anywhere near the damaging reach as Jenny's video.
@@seaofseeof If Disney is just intent on whale h-nt-ng then its destined for failure, it is my basic understanding that parks as a whole rely on varied client base that goes from lower middle to lower-upper class, targeting exclusevly the super spenders is like just eating the cherry on the cake and throwing out the rest, what i think is this:
Old Disney generated value by creating memorable experiences and with having high quality theme parks, it made more value than what it earned in money, it earned in reputation, reputation that had an almost compound interest that lead to a huge clientelle growth.
New Disney EXTRACTS value, they are not making a lot of their money on IP, they are making it selling the goodwill people had for Old Disney, and shareholders are basicly screwing themselves up in the long run.
I am a program creator for museums and seeing how Disney completely abandoned these great opportunities to educate the public about history and culture, whether broad or niche, because it wasn't making them billions of dollars. Education seldom reaps great financial reward, but it does provide reputation and prestige. Seeing Disney have essentially infinite money and the capability of making some really cool educational stuff, and then opt to abandon it, grinds my gears like none other
I always liked going to museums, and I still do
Understandable but Disney is a theme park and a museum is a museum. The source of funding is very different. Disney is corporate driven funding that corporations decides the direction of that attraction.
@@monorail4252 it is hurting their reputation though. The reputation they had was a result of this mindset and the things they had done over the years.
Educational Entertainment WAS making Disney a lot of money. Back in the 1980s when EPCOT was a permanent worlds fair it drew more visitors than Disneyland in California. When the worlds fair theme was dropped, attendance dropped. The reason Disney abandoned educational entertainment is because under Bob Iger they've become creatively lazy. The lazy way to create an attraction is to create something run of the mill and slap an IP on it. This type of lazy thinking is the reason Universal Studios gained market share.
@rogerk6180 true, but they have to compete and maintain an edge.
Older Disney really encouraged curiosity in a way that it doesn’t anymore. Even if it didn’t sit you down and give you a lecture, it pointed you in a direction and gave you to opportunity to lean in to concepts. As a kid I was excited to meet Cinderella, but that wasn’t why I was excited to go to Disney World. I was excited to go Disney World because I knew it was going to escape into this unique experience and ~explore~. I was the kiddo whose favorite ride was Carousel of Progress and would beg to ride it over and over again. Now I’m a scientist. It’s so important to include chances for kids to be curious outside of school!
Everything went downhill after the year 2000. Disney is no exception.
I can’t believe the tiny people making tortillas in the walls at Disney are real. I have been trying to convince my family they weren’t a California heat induced fever dream for years.
I was surprised to learn about its existence a while back. I do like Ghirardelli though, especially since it's decorated to reinforce the Pacific Wharf theme and has its moving elements.
@@PoseidonEntertainmentI never knew such a place existed. Too bad, because even 10 year old me would have loved those educational side attractions
I thought I’d dreamed them up too!
We loved the tortilla factory and the bakery. When the parks are so crowded and chaotic, so of the memorable times were quiet refuges enjoying a warm tortilla.
It's a good thing a lot more Americans have went against Disney due to writing Marvel and Star Wars like ass, at this point their most valuable product and film is Minnie diapers.
As much as Michael Eisner had his faults (and there were a lot, particularly towards the end) at least he didn't treat creating original characters, IP's and ideas like a disease.
Exactly.
@@eatatjoes6751 Yep. I definitely agree.
The Eisner-Wells era was peak Disney parks. After Frank Wells died, Eisner's SUCCESSFUL ideas were few and far between. There were some amazing ideas that never saw the light of day. Still better than Disney today, though!
I love how people blame one leader some blame Eisner and some blame chapek but maybe the whole company is poison
Eisner seemed to respect the educational slant as well as the typical theme park spectacle, acknowledging that both could exist harmoniously. A far cry from the IP bloat at present.
The educational angle is part of what keeps Disney parks from being just a fancy and expensive Six Flags.
I find it funny that Disney People always use Six Flags as their example for "dumpy parks", when some of the dumpiest parks are actually under the umbrella of Palace Entertainment. (I suspect that it has something to do with the fact that SF parks specifically say "Six Flags", whereas you wouldn't necessarily know that Valleyfair and Worlds of Fun are Cedar Fair parks or that Lake Compounce and Kennywood are Palace Entertainment parks.
(For what it's worth, these days I think Six Flags is a better experience per dollar than Disney.)
The difference is that Six Flags is an amusement park and well, Disney Parks (were) are theme parks. However Universal does theme parks far better.
@@alaeriia01 Kennywood is amazing wtf
@@aledandrian Kennywood is being run like shit and Steel Curtain was a mistake. Let's be honest, Knoebels is better than Kennywood by a country mile
@@thewalkingdad68 I went to both Disney and Universal parks once, but it was over a decade ago. My own experience was that Disney parks were so heavily focused towards families-with-children that it actually diminished the appeal towards families-with-teenagers. Disney park has no thrill rides, notably - there was nothing that would exclude young children like that. Rides focused on theming heavily, but beneath the theming the rides have to be quite tame. Universal was far more exciting.
We were that family in the late 80’s early 90’s where Mom made us do everything edutainment. And that was my favorite part - I am the only person that misses body wars. Every time someone says Epcot is not for kids, Epcot is boring, Epcot is boring, I cry a bit inside. 10 year old me thought Epcot was the most amazing theme park ever. 😢
I think I would have enjoyed it as a kid. Never been to a Disney park though. I loved all the "how things are made" clips on tv, and Where In Time Is Carmen Sandiego was one of my favorite games.
I only experienced the Eisner era of the park, but even then it was still my favorite as a kid
It’s the only theme park I ever wanted to see. Ever. Others just seem boring.
You are not the only one missing Body Wars. I talk about this frequently. It was one of my favorite rides as a kid, and then I became a nurse.
I miss Body Wars, too. What they've done to the World Showcase makes me want to vomit.
5:40 as someone with Cherokee heritage who has been to MANY Pow-Wows, I can speak to the authenticity of the dances. From what I see in that reel, these are authentic Native American dances and (for the times) authentic regalia. (It's hard to see them because the speed of the film is so cranked up, but at 6:10 that gentleman is a Hoop Dancer and is performing recognizable patterns with his hoops, stepping into and out of three connected hoops [which tells me he has only just started].)
These dances are still performed today, with many dancers crossing the country to go from one Pow-Wow to another to compete in the dance competitions for monetary prizes, and I know of one who makes his living by competing and even traveling internationally to perform exhibitions (he's also a Hoop Dancer and at one point held the World Hoop Dance Championship title).
Where the parks *probably* went wrong is most like the same place that Hollywood did; it appears that all the performers there are dressed in the buckskins and headdresses most often seen among the Plains nations, mostly the Lakota (Sioux) Nation. Given the climate in California, the traditional clothing of most of the 109 tribes in the area likely never consisted of something as hot and heavy to wear as buckskin leather.
For a lot of the performers in the past, dressing up this way was about the same as anyone putting on a stage costume today, and dancing and putting on these shows was one of the few ways to really make some money in a time when it was difficult for registered Native Americans to find other work. I suspect they thought of it about the way any of us view our jobs.
I'm just glad Disney went the extra mile and actually hired real Native Americans
Yeah, I got the impression that it was a mix of authentic tradition but also terms and iconography that audiences would identify from literature and western films.
I think it may just need to be viewed as a product of its time, because I doubt a park would attempt to tweak those elements if introduced today, but I was also surprised to see how the original attraction treated these traditions with reverence, because I was always under the impression that it was all probably fabricated stereotypes until I looked into it for this video.
@@onehorseopensleigh THIS.
Thanks for the info
@onehorseopensleigh primarily, as a Cherokee person, I can agree. However, I think the blanket generalization of appropriation as appreciation is wrong since while imitation can be appreciation, appreciation without integration and understanding can hollow out culture over time into a marketable pastiche.
Actual appreciation is hard and takes time, which businesses don't like. It leads them to appropriate cultures by stereotyping and overgeneralizing and, in turn, influencing popular perception with inaccurate portrayals from specifically non-Native American perceptions. Disney went the extra mile to show genuine appreciation for Native cultures.
However, in a broader American Culture that values a homogeneous mix of on-demand entertainment and all education to be subliminal to the pleasure of the former, it begins a contamination of Culture as something people know they want and can't fully understand other cultures.
Most media doesn't take the time to present pop culture with in-depth understanding and often reduces cultures to Brands. I agree it stems from the importance of education fading and being mixed with entertainment. Still, many people who do care about actual portrayals have become hyper-vigilant because it's very easy to become a shell of your culture for other people to dress up as and eat food like but never truly understand.
I hope I didn't sound rude; thank you.
@@lemonice7536 I see a lot of thoughtless, aggressive and incredibly uneducated blaming of appropriation online that is coming almost always out of the USA if I'm honest. Not necessarily in regards to native Americans.. It's seems to be largely focused on the African American population and more often than not shows an amazing degree of ignorance of history and cultures outside the US. For me personally this very much muddies and cheapens the whole discussion as you absolutely can not assume good intentions or sincerity on any side. And it made a lot of people exhausted and tired I fear. There is a ton of plain aggression towards "white people". I'm quite sure it would not come from the people who actually care to preserve culture and know what they're talking about. But it's really just one more way to shit talk, judge others and rage while declaring which little echo chamber you belong too. It's doing a big disservice to everyone involved in the matter.
The only attraction at Epcot that I actually enjoyed was Living with The Land, because it was pure edutainment. People think edutainment doesn’t work because Disney stopped putting effort into making it work.
I will never forgive them for re-theming the Norway ride.
Not Spaceship Earth? In fairness, the current script is terrible and factually incorrect much of the time, but I appreciate the ride for what it is.
@@EngMadison I personally didn't like the Norway ride, but I'm so disappointed they turned it into Frozen. It didn't need a new theme!
Living with the Land is also amgreat one to ride multiple times if you have an annual pass and come on different days. It's fun because it's nice and cool out of the Florida heat, a short line, and the practical farms are interesting to see because they actually change ^^ Also the the tour through the facility (which is pretty cheap for Disney) is quite fun too!
@@PoseidonEntertainment unfortunately the lighting in Spaceship Earth was too poor for me to enjoy the scenes. I also found most of the ride extremely underwhelming, with the exception of the animatronic scenes. Overall the ride would have been good if effort was put in.
I said it once ill say it again. Eisner may not had a 100% success rate but he had a passion and creativity that expanded the parks for the better. The amount of content we got in Eisners era was crazy. Now while we get new things its almost always IP or even tearing down what exhists for current IP. Iger said it himself. IP forever.
I would define success as creating culturally significant media and experiences, but unfortunately most people think success equals money.
Billion dollar live action remakes make me deeply miss the straight to VHS sequel era.
@@mrsmaggiekoch You know shits getting bad at this point 💀
@@mrsmaggiekoch It's bad when even that is looked on more positively these days...
Heck the Eisner's choice of direct to video sequels gave us some good choices. Sure Return Of Jafar set a rocky start but the Aladdin cartoon and its conclusion in the video sequel King Of Thieves is great.
Heck Kovu and Simbas Pride may never have existed if the video sequel run never happened!
One of my favorite educational moments at a Disney park happened for me as I was leaving It’s Tough to be a Bug (a show that I’ll be so upset if it’s removed completely!). As I exited the theater, something to my left caught my eye. It was a cast member sitting on a stool at a wooden cart. Unlike everyone else leaving the show, I decided to investigate and learned that she was showing an amazing collection of bugs and bug husks that had been shed. It was thematic to the attraction I’d just experienced, and I loved seeing the collection!
I would have stayed there longer, but the Cast Member mentioned that she’d just arrived at the park and when she went by Flight of Passage, she’d noticed a wait time of about 10 minutes. I’ll never forget that amazing Cast Member, especially because she did indeed help me get on Flight of Passage with an insanely low wait time!
Was it one of the Cast Members for the Wilderness Explorer activity? I've been back there and really liked looking at the insects they bring out. I know that the Wilderness Explorer thing is mostly meant for kids, but I actually found it valuable in an educational sense and I'm surprised to still see it around.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I’m not sure. This was the the Tree of Life as I exited It’s Tough to be a Bug.
My late wife and I spent our honeymoon at the Magic Kingdom in 1978. We strolled up to the entrance, bought our tickets and a book of ride coupons, and walked right in. Never again will anyone ever experience the Disney that we saw. We returned as each new park opened. We saw it all as it was meant to be seen. All gone now.
sigh
My mom was a kid and then teenager in Florida from the 70s thru the 80s, and she and her friends would frequent Disney once every few months for years. She was so excited to take us to disney again when we were young, and it broke her heart that all of her favorite rides were gone. She still adored all of the non disney character themed architecture on main street they kept. So sad. She hasn't been back since we last went in 2008.
Yes cheap and tacky is the best... Rofl imagine thinking You're better because you got the beta version
@@darkhobois this Bob Iger?
Wake up babe, Poseidon entertainment just dropped another hour long video on Disney making the parks worse and I'm all for it
I hope he does more especially roasting California adventure
IM UP IM Up
And you people say your fans.
@@derekmiles2543they are fans of what Disney *was* and what it used to represent. Modern Disney is not entitled to their undying loyalty simply because it bears the Disney name.
Hahaha 💯
your comment, 3 minutes in, about how Disney doesn't seem to think that the guests can find entertainment in something without a character being slapped onto it, is absolutely how I feel... The company has ZERO creative ambition anymore, and wants everything to be IP land. It's not going to be a problem from those who never knew what came before, but for those of us who do know... it leaves extremely disappointed and questioning if it's worth going back. It's heartbreaking.
That's a large part of why I like to make videos like this. I want to remind or at least inform people about what's missing
Michael Eisner's era definetly had its faults, but there was a vision. It tried to marry corporate identity with cultural and imaginative identities.
Now it feels like the company's going for bland brands and not looking at anything new or risky
i would take Eisner over Iger any day. All Iger seems to know is to buy up IPs then doesn't know how to handle them.
I thinks it’s important to note that most Theme Parks dropped the ‘Edutainment’ aspect, now being IP based (six flags dropping the 6 flags of Texas with areas based on DC). But a silver lining is that Theme Park designers end up working on edutainment experiences for museums…
Yeah. Its history is kinda cool though.
This is a topic not touched upon enough, and I’m glad you covered it.
The commercialization of conservation and preservation is messed up on many levels.
First Jenny Nicholson dropped a 4 hour video on Starcruiser, and now Poseidon Entertainment dropped an hour long video on Disney itself, we're eating good these days
Nom nom!
Genuinely, I feel like “edutainment” was the biggest differentiator Disney parks had. Sure, their ride and R&D budgets were infinitely higher than any competition - but even in the castle and studio parks, I still felt like I was LEARNING something.
It’s incredible to me how all of that can so quickly be tossed aside, thanks to leadership and shareholder greed. I miss Disney parks that I experienced as a kid, and I know those parks are gone forever.
Same here, it’s sad how Disney willingly stepped away from the one thing that set them aside from the rest in the first place: creativity and valuing good guest experience. Nowadays most of their new projects are done cheap and lazy because they know people will eat it up regardless of quality because “it’s Disney”
I’m just sad we never got west cot instead of dca and that we never got Disney sea in Long Beach. Because California sucks 😂. I am local and feel like Disney is going to screw up Disneyland forward too
@@dayoldbread1696 That's how the Circle of Capitalism works. Someone creates a Good Thing and it persists for a while until they sell it or retire. Then the MBAs come in and drain the value out of it, relying on the goodwill built up by the founder. Next, the goodwill gets spent and the people stop coming, then eventually the Good Thing either gets bought by Amazon or dies and becomes an Amazon warehouse.
Ditto. Even DinoLand had some educational value in it. Now that it's going away/already gone, I declare a boycott on Disney.
I don’t want Disney to be lazy! They should have some creative ideas!
On the next installment of
“Don’t you now regret trashing Michael Eisner?”
I still blame Eisner for this. Had he read the room that France was (and still is) the most Anti-American country in all of the West and built a European Disneyland elsewhere, the financial fallout from that would either be avoided or lessened. The failure of Disneyland Paris is what led us to Bob Iger...
I didn’t say he wasn’t without his flaws
I’m just saying what he got right he got right
Unfortunately, of the things he did very well, those elements + the Perpetual Growth model of capitalism were going to set the precedences that got us to where we are now.
The biggest issue when it comes to detractor vs apologist stance with Eisner is that he talked the talk sometimes, but he never really Walked the Walk regarding the kind of dedication that sustains the Long-Term Excellence the Disney Parks are known for.
Yes and no
I mean he bit off more than he could chew with Euro Disney
I mean it is ambitious but I’d argue he should have got priorities straight back home
@@KRobinson-ko1ne What you said is that we should regret trashing Michael Eisner which we under no circumstance should
I'm so glad we are getting more videos criticizing Disney. They really brought this onto themselves.
Leadership is awful, so they should be called out on it.
How I miss MGM studios. We went on a tour of the animation studio and watched how they animated Grandma from Mulan. The Great Movie Ride was so much fun. I miss The Living Seas too and old Epcot.
They destroyed the educational aspect of EPCOT Center. Now it’s all IP driven with zero inspiration. Guardians was a gigantic swing and a miss regardless of how stellar the ride itself is. And don’t get me started on Norway.
I think Guardians could actually be rethemed pretty cheaply since the building is so bare anyways.
I want a spiritual successor to Adventure Thru Inner Space, relating back to atomic energy to give the pavilion some educational value and meaning.
The teleportation effect could become a shrinking effect and flying into space is instead flying through "inner space", with the stars becoming chaotic electrons and the revolving planet scenes becoming the nucleus' of atoms.
More hour long+ Disney criticism? I’m here for it.
I'm also here for any hour long Disney+ criticism, but it's gotta be pretty exactly an hour.
@@CyrusTheFrog...and not 4 hours.
@@thewalkingdad68oh lol I was more just making a dumb joke by moving the + sign in OPs comment. Personally I loved the vid you're prob referring to, but I respect if it's not your bag 😊👍
@@thewalkingdad68 Nah, you should definitely watch the 4 hour long video. It never got boring
As someone who stopped caring for Disney as a whole & ultimately realizing that even in the renaissance era they as a company sucked, I agree.
Why learn when you can consume ip?
That definitely feels like igers mind nowadays 😂
Don’t ask questions, just consume product. Then get excited for next products.
COOMSOOM
I used to work at EPCOT and I would talk about park changes with coworkers. Epcot used to be the science park. The front was hard science, the back was soft science. Today it's the franchises and alcohol park.
Hard science and soft science -> Soft IP and hard liquor
Oh God...really? I haven't watched the video, I'm afraid it'll be depressing so I just came for a summary in the comments somewhere, but...EPCOT was my favorite part when I went in the mid-2000s. To hear that they've shat on what was supposed to be a tribute to science.... Just how bad is it now? Is Figment still there, at least?
37:44 Can't stress this enough! GMR made me love movies. It's not about whether or not you recognize them, it's about finding out they exist.
Edutainment is underappreciated. The target demographic for edutainment are parents and they are the ones that pay the trip to the park.
JUST started watching ... one of the reasons i will always love and miss Classic (up to the last 1990's) Epcot ... the EDUCATIONAL aspect. it hurts me so many will never know Epcot like that
Innovations was my fav attraction. I loved the one activity where you can make your own paper.
I'll never understand why some people don't like edutainment. What's wrong with learning something or being inspired if it's fun?
The brown accent chamber pot story was told to me by a guide during a Keys to the Kingdom tour back in 2004. So yes Disney was at some point officially pushing that story.
I've learned that a lot of what is shared on Disney tours is often "legend" rather than fact.
Thanks for making this! I've been thinking the same thing for a long time.
I work in experience design, and grew up loving Disney World and being really inspired by the Imagineers work. I think what upsets me most about the loss of edutainment experiences in the parks is how it truly diminishes the experience for children. Some of the greatest bits of inspiration that I got as a child, which ultimately led me to my career path, were from seeing the beautiful immersive environments at Disney, and how they could teach you about culture, the universe, science, the arts, etc. As a kid I would read this one 90s Disney Imagineering book over and over again and just obsess over how beautiful the concept art was and how rich the stories were. And all of most beautiful pieces in that book were original inspired ideas that had depth, meaning and purpose. They always had the idea in mind that the world was beautiful, culture is beautiful, and that we as a society always had the chance to build a better future. And that's just a really positive and important thing to teach a child that can inspire them for years to come.
Your videos are always spot on. You complain about the right things.
I'm hopeful that the company will change course ocen Iger leaves, but I think he's going to do a lot of damage on his way out. It's clear that Disney is responding to Epic Universe, but their response is just more IP, not understanding why their competition is going to outperform them.
Would love to hear more about your role in experience design. That sounds fascinating and right up my alley!
- Timestamps -
0:00:00 Introduction
0:04:48 Disneyland's Opening And Their Education Attractions
0:11:38 Disneyland Representing American History
0:17:39 The Continuation of Disneyland Representing American History
when are you gonna finish that?
@@Robbie-pc1dl Around the same time Beastly Kingdom opens
10 hours later, comment still only goes to 17:39. don't mean to call the OP out like that, just observing.
maybe OP fell asleep. or had shit to do.
The World May Never Know...
This is why we need a dedicated ceo of the theme parks that actually cares. It's been so clear from day one Bob "IP" Iger and Bob "cheapskate" Chapek never truly cared about the parks, their experiences, and their legacy.
The thing I really love about "Disney Americana" is that there is a lot of depth and thought put into it. Main Street, Libery Square, Frontierland, and hell even New Orleans Square, really have that authentic americana that I really am a sucker for. Kinda wish there was more stuff like that around the parks tbh.
Also early Epcot is best Epcot.
I remember going to Disney World as a kid in the early 90s, I said I wanted to do the Hall of Presidents and my mom said no, she and my dad didn’t pay all this money so that I could wait in line to learn. lol
Ah, so disappointing. I know it's been re-written since then, but I do think it's a legitimately entertaining show too
Thank you for another excellent video!!! While I believe a Disney media IP is supposed to be a bit of ‘spice’ in the parks, not the entire experience. My main issue is the fact that their non IP Disney attractions have always been incredible and groundbreaking. When they allowed Disney Imagineers to put the effort into creating a whole new storyline they can do it so well. But seeing how Bob Iger confirmed all future Disney Parks projects will be IP-based and not original stories there is not much to be said. I simply miss the old Disney theme parks that made us think; it set us dreaming while the new Disney Co. puts me to sleep and I am saddened that it has morphed into IP into a money grab pandering to entertainment. Our future and past is far more exciting than promoting Nemo, Frozen and other cartoon characters and rides based on Marvel movies.
I deeply miss EPCOT proudly being the park for nerds.
I was heartbroken when the Backlot Tour closed because of all the priceless, historical props that had been exhibited there (I especially liked the ones for The Great Muppet Caper). I worry about whatever happened to them after that, and I hope the present management hasn't trashed them or something.
Being that Disney has always first and foremost been an entertainment company, I think those seeking education would benefit a lot by visiting their local museums, zoos, community centers, ect. Those places need your donations a LOT more than Disney. 😊
Certainly, but it's still a loss.
of course, i don’t think anyone goes to disney strictly for education but that doesn’t take away from the fact that the parks have become a IP warehouse and changed drastically from what it once was which was an experience of both fun and learning
"Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America, with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world.”
- Walt Disney
I strongly disagree that Disney has always been first and foremost an entertainment company. Walt Disney saw the mandate of the company as both entertainment and education. This can be seen in his early vision of the parks, but also in the prolific number of live action documentary films Disney cranked out between the 50s and 70s. I remember seeing some of these in elementary school in the early 80s. Yes, they are kitschy and dated by today's standards of what a documentary film should be, but were nonetheless meant to be primarily educational
Kevin Perjurer never uploads anymore, and you've filled that void. More videos please. Your videos bring me a lot of comfort to watch.
This was a fantasic video, Poseidon! I personally feel like IP and original content can co-exist in the Disney Parks if done right. For example, why not keep Journey Into Imagination themed to Dreamfinder and Figment while the Inside Out characters get a separate ride? And the UK Pavilion in Epcot could benefit from a Sword In The Stone attraction, as the King Arthur myths still sometimes get referenced in media to this day. I'd even go as far as to say that Disney could even use IPs that didn't do well to create unique ride experiences, such as Treasure Planet [steampunk is still pretty popular], Atlantis, and even The Black Cauldron. Sleeping Beauty, Dumbo, and Pinocchio all bombed in the box office when they came out, but they not only became popular classics, they also made some of the most iconic rides. I personally wish there was a third variant of Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks in the Land pavilion, maybe using music from both attractions. On a different note, there's been a topic I really hope you'll cover one day, and that's theme parks that never got a chance to exist. Not just Westcot, but also one I feel could've been amazing had it opened, and that's Will Vinton's Claymation Station. There's some videos talking about it, but I highly recommend watching the documentary Claydream for more information of what exactly happened that prevented Claymation Station from existing. It's a really sad story.
I do think that IP makes sense when done with thought and purpose. I agree that Inside Out could work at Epcot, especially through a revival of the Wonders of Life pavilion, but only if it makes sense to the values of the park. Apparently Iger wanted to replace Imagination with Inside Out because it vaguely is related through Bing Bong.
@@PoseidonEntertainment I'd like an Inside Out attraction but not at the expense of Figment. He's a classic character, and his merch still sells, so it would be a total disaster if Disney DID turn Journey Into Imagination into an Inside Out ride. I also have the hot take that Soarin would fit a Sky pavilion better then the Land Pavillion. With Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, food comes from the land, so it fits perfect, but Soarin is based on flight. Also, even though I'm a 2000s person, I ADORE Kitchen Kabaret and Food Rocks, but that may be because I adore anthropomorphic food characters like the M&Ms Spokescandies and The California Raisins. Back to Claymation Station, I will always be upset that it never became a real park, as I think the theming of Will Vinton's Claymation is actually a really fun idea for IP. It also helps that Will Vinton's work can get a lot trippier than Disney at times [Adventures Of Mark Twain for example]. Though if Claymation Station did get built, the 2000s would see it rethemed to Laika. Which I would be so mad about, given that Phil Knight, owner of NIKE, is the reason Will Vinton lost his studio and it turned into Laika. Again, I highly recommend watching Claydream, not just for the story of Claymation Station, but for the tragic story of how Will Vinton lost everything.
Perhaps the original DCA's biggest issue was that it just didn't commit enough to being about Californian history and culture. Yeah, it was kind of a silly idea, but it just sort of half-tried which made it sillier. A dark ride about Gold Rush California vs. the limo one, for instance, could have been really fun.
I agree. Reportedly, The Great Movie Ride was intended to go in Hollywoodland and it would have definitely been a much better fit. I do actually appreciate that Superstar Limo had such a unique concept though, even if the ride was awful.
Disney needs to leave Dinoland & Rafiki's Planet Watch alone and use some of the unused land around Animal Kingdom to build Beastly Kingdom.
I remember going through the Mission tortillas tour when I was 8. I loved it, and the warm tortilla they gave you at the end was sooooo good!
Liberty Square Tavern remains my all time favorite restaurant ever, but goddamn the price has shot up.
Restaurant osaurus for me.
Yeah, expensive for sure, but the only restaurant in Magic Kingdom that feels worth the value
Walt Disney himself had some great ideas and principles. He was a standup guy. It’s a shame what they’ve done to his legacy.
You perfectly put into words my entire frustration with Great Movie Ride’s closure + its critics. Additionally, bravo on how smoothly you transition from subject to subject. 👏🏻
Very enjoyable. I wish some of what you showed was still available, especially the Chinese theater ride. That looked awesome!!
I used to be OBSESSED with Disney and Disneyland. I mean, it was basically to a point where Disney couldn't move a trashcan in the park without me hearing about it. This video, a month after it came out, is the first time I've heard of the Sanfransokyo overlay at CA. My apathy for Disney has truly set in.
Another great video analysis! As an aside, Disney Junior is rebranding tomorrow (to be dumbed down Disney Jr.) and make no mistake its sole purpose will be selling toys. This has been in the works for a while (the change from Playhouse Disney originally was a line in the sand from education to storytelling with lessons) but the Company mandate is clear here.
I know nothing about that aspect of the company, but I guess it only reinforces my point if they're taking out educational elements (which I didn't know existed lol).
Another banger. Man this made me miss the Great Movie Ride again. MGM studios in general tbh.
When you mentioned the Dino was named "sue" i immediately thought it was named after Disney's legal team
Dude I know I comment this on all of your videos now, but it’s the truth - you are pretty much my favourite channel on RUclips at this point. This precise subject is my FAVOURITE obsession to research and talk about, I feel like the educational aspect of the florida theme parks in the 90s/00s is so overlooked. When I was a kid, I visited florida with my family in 1999 and 2000, and the best memories I have of those trips aren’t so much the rides, but the sense of wonder and curiosity I got from attractions like the World Showcase, or the educational areas in Animal Kingdom. I was the 5 year old who wanted to ride Ellen’s Energy Adventure multiple times! Idk, there was a sense of hope and optimism for the future nurtured in the parks back then, and that was reflected in their commitment to educational exhibits. Its not Disney, I know, but if I could bottle the feeling of being a kid at the Kennedy Space Centre in 1999 I’d be happy. The “utopian scholastic” aesthetic on the CARI website really exemplifies the ethos of that mindset and design we had in entertainment back then, I wish it would come back. Thanks as always for making your videos, I’m sure a ton of hard work and research go into them and I’m happy you put them out there for us to enjoy!
You've hit on something really important. The world today wants an uneducated people. Only an ignorant people would allow and support their leaders (government, corporations, etc) to do the things they are doing today.
What worries me is that I'm afraid that current Disney might be reading the room right on this one. The thing is that old Disney seemed to think that they could, if not teach, then inspire. Whether it be in science, technology or the arts. But now it feels like they believe that all people want and all they can give is comfort and escapism. And with things like the pandemic, climate change, plastic pollution and various political situations, they might be right. So many big problems seem bigger than ever and hard for regular folks to feel like they can impact. And things that places like the old Epcot once treated like modern marvels (like fossil fuels and plastics) are now proving to be big problems. Inspiration is hard when hope is in short supply. And maybe all folks want is to feel good for a little while.
That's ironic considering Disney is dystopian in their own way.
I really disagree. I think that if anything, the inspirational messages of Epcot would resonate even better today as a form of optimistic escapism. I can see an Epcot that properly updates itself to address how issues today can be tackled. Even Ellen's Energy Adventure concluded with statement on how alternative forms of energy would play a large role in the future.
I mean, it could do Disney well to push back against that wider cultural pessimism. People are becoming increasingly inured to a at best pessimistic, and a worst nihilistic, view of the world. An idea that every achievement of the past was rotten in some way, that every facet and wonder of the present is dystopic or sending us to our doom, and that every issue of the future is either unavoidable or that has a point of no return that is too close to prevent. This view is perpetuated to the public by interested parties (namely, politicians) looking to use the sense of impending doom and urgency to inspire loyalty amongst their following or decry opposing ideas and philosophies, and by individuals who falsely equate cynicism with intelligence (not to say they aren’t intelligent, just that they believe cynicism is a marker of intelligence). It’s reaching a point where fatigue is starting to set in, and people are becoming increasingly convinced that we’re all doomed anyway, so there’s no point in trying. Perhaps a bit of the old optimistic futurism- discussions of current issues under the flag of “we WILL fix it” rather than “we MUST fix it”- could do us all well, even if people might initially view it as a bit hokey. If nothing else, it would be a bigger breath of fresh air than pure escapism.
Rafiki's Planet Watch was such a pleasant surprise when I was there in 2017, I'd never been and wasn't even aware of it until I found the train to it. The atrium had a cast member showing the audience different snakes, and the sounds of the rainforest area was such a welcome peaceful oasis from my busy, high energy day. I'm devasted to know both of those things are gone now, what a shame!
1 hour video thank you for blessing us
Great video! It's very frustrating to see the parks become showcases for brands instead of unique experiences that can't be experienced anywhere else. Even non-educational attractions like Pirates, the Haunted Mansion, and the Country Bears hold up because they're original stories and characters that you can't experience by watching a movie (even the movies based on these attractions are nothing close to the rides). Iger is so averse to originality and challenging guest's intelligence that he'd rather just slap the best-performing IPs on the parks and hope it makes money through merch sales.
Ah yes . . . the days when theming was not only original, but didn't heavily depend upon I.P. When Disney Parks first shoved Mary Poppins, along with Beauty and the Beast I.P. into the Grand Floridan Hotel Resort, I suspected I was seeing the eventual decline of the resorts.
Growing up on a farm in the midwest, cultural exposure of any kind was just super valuable to me because I rarely was able to engage with it in real life. Epcot when I was really little was what lit that spark in me, and the fact that they tied culture with futurism was probably more formative to how I think about the world than I know. I really hope that maybe whatever comes after Iger is ousted is for Epcot to try and recenter itself, go back to its original vision maybe with some new ideas thrown in there. There probably could be a lot of value in a new take on Horizons in particular that goes through how our ideas about the future have changed over time, and how they relate to hopes and worries of the times they came from, something that connects Future World with World Showcase in one way or another. Hell, I bet something of an educational thing about the Internet itself and finding actual information in the torrent of stimulation we're subjected to and being able to weigh different viewpoints you find out there might be something good for the park and society as a whole.
I loved the Innoventions attraction when I went to Disneyworld in 2006. I was really impressed by the computerized embroidery machine. Now that's something my local library has!
We shall hate the current state of Disney as much as K-Dot hates Drake 🔥
You deserve sooo many more subscribers. Your videos are exceptional. And it’s a real shame because the ideas you express could benefit the parks and park goers if it reached a broader audience.
I took two animation courses at the Disney Institute. It was a terrific experience. Keep in mind, that at the time, there was no Animal Kingdom, so with 3 parks, and manageable crowd levels, if you wanted to spend a week at WDW, you had to get creative.
I wasn't as familiar with all of DCA's older educational experiences in particular, so thank you for shining light on that.
Disney's MK (especially Hall of Presidents) and EPCOT definitely had some very intriguing educational experiences, so it is disappointing to see Disney move away from this in favor of IP's.
I absolutely love DINOSAUR and completely agree with your discussion there. DAK should definitely keep the theme of the ride at least.
Thank you for this in-depth analysis, Poseidon!
While talking about the Disney institute I was honestly bracing myself for a "similar to todays sponsor skill share" moment just because of how often I see those
Great take. I agree, The parks once felt grounded due to the depth and historical nods to real places. This made the fantasy elements even more fantastical and gave the sense that the place had history. Now it is just an interactive billboard.
Loving these videos lately. This one really made me think abt how much I knew about Disney. One video recommendation/idea is the history of canobie lake park or story land. These are both of New Hampshires best parks and they are worth looking into
Could be interesting, but they're places I would want to likely visit first before doing a video.
Excellent video! I think it deserves a part 2. Maybe focus on the resorts.
Just LOVE this start (smelling what You are baking up -- a fresh loaf of deep Disney Executive Sour Dough ... no dough if not enough bread, thinking low without a smart head).
Yeah, so true with all said during the video. I miss the classic Epcot and Studios for their edu-tainment. It's just not the same anymore. I think the original idea for MGM was so cool to demonstrate that by gone era of golden Hollywood and film making. It's so stupid now that it's all IPs. Disney started failing miserably when it stopped offering that Disney "touch" that made it go miles above the competition.
Edit: I posted a reply to this video 3 weeks ago and my thoughts still stand. I used to read the "Walt Disney World: 20 Magical Years" every night before bed because I was so fascinated with "golden" Disney when edu-tainment, spreading magic, and the "Disney touch" meant something. I used to beg and plead to my parents to take us to Disney. Now, I have my own family an hour away in Florida and I don't want to go because it's become a joke of its former self. Living with the Land, Horizons, World of Motion, Spaceship Earth, Journey into Imagination, Maelstrom, Big Thunder Mountain, Pirates, Splash Mountain, and Haunted Mansion's sets and ambiance enthralled me. The detail was above anything else. None of the new attractions do today. Granted, I'm also much older now. I get why they stopped finding MGM feasible to turn it into an east coast Hollywood but still, why can they not still teach us about the magic of movies like they originally tried?
they probably did have to go through congress to get an "official" seal authorized to use. I used to work in purchasing for DOJ and even we couldn't buy/order anything with an official seal without special approval.
I looked into it and the conclusion from a few different sources was that they couldn't find any record or evidence of this happening. Perhaps it did, or perhaps Disney just went ahead and created their own and never had to deal with any consequences. It would be interesting to find a definitive answer though.
It always seemed clear to me Walt wanted to sell America as an idea and ideal as much as his creations, if not more in some ways. That really isn't the Disney way anymore and it's kinda left them hollow and disinteresting. It leaves a cold corporate atmosphere that really does not do much to dispell the disdainful pre-suppositions about Disney as a big, soulless corporation.
I am EXACTLY the target market for that Disney Institute experience. I love holidays as a chance to learn something new and take away a new skill- for example when I went to Thailand we did an afternoon long Thai massage course which was amazing. While every holiday is good, sometimes I want more than lying in the sun, eating, and walking around.
IP has a shelf life. If its a successful one off it stick for 15 to 20 years. Sometimes you can blend disparate works together like the Disney Princesses, sometimes you can add to the story repeatedly, like Toy Story, and on occasion you end up with something that entrenches itself like Mickey or Hello Kitty. By over emphasizing an IP you diminish its value.
Edutainment has always been principal for the Disney Parks. Such a shame today’s leadership seems to stop caring teaching park guests on worldly topics.
Is also the reason why I fear we won’t see another edutainment based park like Epcot again.
Another overlooked aspect was that the educational content of the Disney parks probably appealed to parents who might find something like a Six Flags theme park consisting mostly of coasters to be too indulgent as there's really no way to pretend that it's anything other than an expensive day of flashy fun. I certainly knew kids growing up whose strict parents wouldn't let them do anything fun unless they could sell it as somehow having value beyond that.
I remember that studio tour at MGM and seeing the animators at work. It definitely made it more interesting that it was a real working studio.
Disney replacing the Great Movie Ride (HOLLYWOOD Studios) with an IP ride is all the evidence you'll ever need
Ah, well the Great Movie Ride was definitely an IP ride
@@PoseidonEntertainment true, but full of IPs that actually made sense to Hollywood. RR belongs in MK (I'm also salty abt it because I miss the Alien segment)
I think what held back Chester and Hester’s was it was just TOO cheap. It was the only area of the park with premade rides (bought instead of made via imagineering) and it showed. People got injured a lot on primeval whirl, and the design, while nice, was aimed at small children whilst simultaneously having way too high a height restriction. I had to turn away so many crying kids when I worked there. I loved the little shop there and I think people would have loved the area more if the whole place had that level of quality under the guise of “cheap” and kitschy. I grew up in the Midwest and they had generally better quality carnivals and carnival rides, which is telling since Disney is supposed to be better.
I’d prefer the DinoRama area to be replaced with a better attraction that’ll match well with the story of Dinoland USA.
I don't think Dino-rama was great, but I appreciated what they did with the budget they were given. At the very least, I appreciated how it fit into the story of the land, although I understand why most park guests never picked up on it. Also, a personal bias, but I always love a good wild mouse, so I loved how Primeval Whirl was decorated with so much funny kitsch.
@@PoseidonEntertainment Yeah. I can imagine a similar coaster added to Dinoland that’ll replace Primeval Whirl, but can fit well with the theme and story of Dinoland!
Iger ruining the parks and most of the franchises under his reign.
Everyone to Eisner: Perhaps we treated you too harshly
I linked this video to a bunch of my friends and we all bemoaned what we lost together as we watched it in kind-of real time.
I'm not a fan of long videos but I make an exception for yours. This was an awesome essay and I agree. My childhood was centered around Disney and learning in the parks. Haven't been back since Covid, I choose to go to universal instead. At least they are honest about what they are. Keep up the great work.
I went on the WDW behind the scenes magic kingdom tour, and the guide did mention that tidbit about the brown river from chamberpots being represented in the ground patterns
Seeing a one hour Poseidon entertainment video in my sub feed makes me irrationally happy
I actually really liked DCA when it first opened. It was fun (and empty haha). The “BLAST!” show at the Hyperion was freaking fantastic. I liked the old calliope Paradise Pier music. I liked the Golden Gate Bridge at the entrance. The big “CALIFORNIA” letters.
I remember being chosen to do a scene from Cheers. Could’ve sworn that was at MGM Studios.
I still remember riding the carousel of progress in the early 2000s, they showed off a keyboard that was basically a USB stick sorta thing that projected a keyboard onto a surface, it was really cool looking, sadly it doesn't seem like it's caught on, but I still remember the interesting innovation of it.
I think the best educational dark ride ever is jorvik Viking center at york in the uk it is a strange mix of authentic Viking artifacts from the area and a spectacular dark ride with recreations of Viking buildings some of the figures are based on real skeletons and i believe they added heat damp and cold effects but few seem to ever talk about it particularly in the dark ride community a video covering it would be nice because i think its really underrated and is a uk sleeper hit and is probably the longest uk dark ride at 16mins
I feel like this is what's really killed my interest in Disney's parks in general. There's nothing really "new" there. It's just physical versions of all the movies I've already seen. That's fine on its own, but without anything to actually discover, I don't really feel a drive to visit. It's all just surface level and just not worth the cost
i've tried having convos with my mom about stuff like this since she went to epcot as a kid in the nineties. however she just proves disney's point by saying "well i wouldn't have booked epcot for us this trip if there wasn't frozen and ratatouille because there's not much else interesting there" :/
That's disappointing, but also, Iger has let the park age to the point of crumbling, so I get why "new" things might have an appeal.
Educational Disney was the best. Edutainment is such a great thing for everyone and every subject. It's unschooling to the finest. I miss it being mainstream but so glad the trend of emotional intelligence Edutainment is still trying to hang on. Perhaps because it arrived so late to the party?
Never thought in a million years Poseidon Entertainment would showcase and express how good Eisner’s era was compared to today’s Disney Parks.
Why? Haven't I been talking about this for years?
@@PoseidonEntertainment I’m just being sarcastic. Lol sorry, I love your content. You are the best.
Stop saying Disney and say the actual CEO…Walt was a visionary futurist who contributed in unquantifiable amounts priceless icon that he is
The brown trail is a ligit Easter egg in liberty square. I have an imagineer friend who was worked at the parks for over 16 years and has told me it is true
It still fun for me to learn. Is it because my parents couldn't afford the Disney channel when i was a kid?
Important note: it's easy to forget that Disney's educational endeavors were often poorly received in their time. Epcot was long called "boring" after opening, and Disney began trying to "fix" it as early as the 80s with attractions like Captain EO and the inclusion of fuzzy characters. Animal Kingdom, incredibly, was also criticized when it opened for being a "glorified zoo" with very few attractions. And let's not forget the infamous Disney's America debacle.
The audience has always been clamoring for more airy, kiddie, exciting attractions because, at the end of the day, it's a vacation destination. To people like us, it's an art form, but to JoAnn and Cletus, it's an expensive and stressful attempt to entertain their five-year old. Where's the Frozen characters she likes, dammit?
If anything, it seems Disney's persistence with educational attractions from Walt's time clear to Eisner's was out of stubbornness more than success.
So, I've never blamed Disney for trying to give the paying audience more of what they seem to want, even if it'sa shame that we can't have things that capture the more curious mind as much. Theme parks can't just be for me.
I truly feel that theme parks offer the greatest opportunity to educate the public over any other medium. You’re on vacation, relaxed, and your mind is so ready to absorb the information. Visiting Disney World in youth likely played a very large role in my desire to pursue a career in healthcare and help usher in the optimistic and vibrant future that Imagineering envisioned.
I adored mid 80’s Epcot.
The greatest Disney achievement.
Education + Entertainment at its finest.
There was nor will be anything like it again.