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Abgrib789 And the heart from the brits would ,,stand still'' (a german saying translated. It is used if somebody is really badly shocked) due to the Tiger Fever. And then they would be like:,, THAT'S A FUCKING TIGER !!!''
The Firefly was armed with a British 3 inch, 17 lb anti-tank gun - not the much less powerful standard 75 mm gun on a standard Sherman. The projectiles of the 3lb gun would not have bounced off like that.
+Jeffer Peng+ A; go ahead and try to flank with 2000m of open ground in front of the Tiger IIs (that's an ideal distance for engaging Sherman's in said tanks) B; you can always angle a Tiger II's hull to increase effective side protection.
I love both the Tiger I and King Tiger. The King Tiger was sexier in my humble opinion, but it's close. The King Tiger was a monster, and unfortunately for the Germans it was too late in the war. It also required a tonne of petrol, which the Germans simply did not have. The Tiger I was my favourite tank. It was one hell of a killing machine, and with Tiger Aces like Micheal Whittman commanding the thing, it took a toll on the Allied's machines.
If you were inside a King Tiger that got hit by that many 17pd shells you would be deaf at best, but probably dead from internal flaking and concussive injuries
The 17 pdr is not a 122mm or 152mm Soviet large calibre gun firing high explosive shells, it's only a medium caliber 76mm firing solid AP shots only... without high explosive filler... so no boom, no spalling and no armor cracking. It either penetrates or bounces. No explosion, no weakening of the armor
@@xAlexTobiasxB Technically true, but don't forget that Tiger's turret and lower hull do act as a kind of "resonance box" so you don't need an explosion itself to receive a sound wave inside of it.
@@asheer9114 Not exactly mate. You need to compare the weight as well. Weight of 17pdr is nothing as compared to the mass of Konigstiger! Certainly 122mm or 152mm shell would have been fatal
German crews had hearing protection, at best ear damage and some headaches which under heavy influence of adrenaline wouldn't make much difference in combat
cnlbenmc Because of map making, APDS (not present in this game), people using tanks and not dumb AIs and being fighting post war tanks at your BR with a late WW2 tank.
+BLAKz.+ Brit tanks in Warthunder should be automatically uptiered when equipping APDS rounds. Though I wouldn't go so far as to compare Warthunder to Call of Duty (that's what World of Tanks is for) except perhaps for arcade mode, which i don't play.
cnlbenmc because of BR. I enjoyed the game when playing the IS2 1944 vs king tiger. It was a trade off. Now after the BR changes when WWII tanks can be paired up with pre modern mbts with heat, almost pointless to try. I unlocked the stalinium is3 during the first br changed and boy it was so frustrating to vs t54s and any other tank with heat. I was stuck with 200mm of pen while everyone else one shotted me from the pike.
*2:40** - **3:12* *Gunner: I'm tired of shooting* *Commander: Let's just bounce shells and wait to them run out ammo before us* *3:32* *Commander: Laughing Maniacally in German* *3:41* *Commander: To fuck back* *Gunner: JaWoHL !!!*
I agree. Not a good test, the Shermans would flank them and shoot at the sides and rear. The Tiger had a spot under the turret that would be vulnerable, and the turret would stop moving. Then they would move in for the rear shot and the kill. These idiots just stayed stationery and shot at the front glacis plate over and over. BAD TEST.
They can flank when they are in densely forested theaters like Normandy, where tank engagements are mostly at 300 meters. German tanks were designed to fight on the Eastern Front, where engagements are typically 1-1.5 km, with some going up to 3km. Flanking wasn’t possible, unless you have overrun the neighboring unit of the target you are flanking.
@@thomaszhang3101 The Sherman with the upgraded engine, which the Firefly had, could hit 40 mph in a straight run. The German tanks were not designed to hit targets moving that fast. Flanking was not only possible, it was standard practice.
I love how on their first ever deployment in the east 45 Tiger 2's set out on a 30 mile road march to Ogledow and only 8 of them made it. The rest broke down! That tells you all you need to know about how good a tank they were.
Ah bullshit the early T-34 crews would strap an extra transmission on the back they were so bad eventually they got better and the KV1 was even clunkier difficult to drive had bad ergonomics and broke down often. Starting With the Tiger 1 the Germans used a transmission steering system they had stolen from the English that worked really nice and would Allow the tank to piourette in place unlike your skid steer systems that most tanks had in those days. Aside from early production difficulties with the Panther and Tigers once they were sorted out the German tanks were by far the most effective best engineered and best built tanks of WW2 period. Feared and respected by all who had to face them. There are documented events not unlike this animated video where small numbers of Tiger tanks Decimated large numbers of Shermans. There There's a gang tiger type that still sits as a monument in a small village in Germany with many dents on just like the one in the video, None of which Penetrated.And the Panzer 3 was Well sorted and of quality production as well as reliable and Every aspect of it better or equal to a T34. The Panzer 4 also equal to or better Then a T34 in every aspect except maybe mobility.The british 17 pounder as tested by the Americans was powerful and effective but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn past 4 or 500 yards accuracy was an issue Likely because of the earlier sabot rounds. The Panther tank,as tested by the Americans, Outperformed the Sherman in every single off road test was faster better armored And had a far more effective gun.The quality of the steel for instance of the German tanks was far superior to especially anything the Russians were producing at the time the welds were better the quality of the gun sights was better and they had radios Which obviously gave them better communication German industry was far more developed probably more than anybody else on the planet at that time. Russian tanks Especially were crudely built And hastily pushed out to the front to get straight to the fighting .Those people paid dearly for every foot of ground they managed to wrest from the grip of the German army 25 million Russians died Horrible scorching deaths Same for the Americans and English.
2:42 bold strategy by the shermans, keep nudging the tiger so its cannon can't be steady enough to fire, and hoping that the tiger crews suffer from severe headache from those clanging noises
+WarfareGaming+ yeah the the only way a Firefly is gonna punch through the front of a Tiger II is with APDS rounds and only through the turret cheeks unless you get really close (though the turret cheek shots are a depressingly common occurrence in Tier IV Warthunder matches).
Tiger 2 had at max 185mm of armor... The sherman firefly with apds had 233mm of penetration at 1000m and at 100m which is closer to what this "simulation" shows it has 275mm of penetration... The simulation is wrong... The tigers should all be dead
Well, the 17 Pounders is alot more powerful than most Allied guns in the field and it capable of knocking out any German tanks that is below the King Tiger tank.
WHY.....although the Yeomanry's Firefly Vc's took out the three accompanying Tigers, it was the CANADIAN Shermans sitting behind the walls of the villa on the flank that took down Whittman.......credit where credit is due...it was a team effort...BUT Whittman's Tiger was out of range for the Fireflys.......it has been PROVEN......do some research...
@@aviationlover3613well if its sabot round then the king tigers will lose even with ap shells they will lose why bcuz 50 fireflies against 10 king tigers and sitll lose is just doesnt make sense
I was thinking of post war Sherman’s the 17 pound gun was WWII. The Germans learned quickly that Firefly could penetrate the armor of both the Panther and Tiger tanks. The British used it the most. They tended to mix Firefly with the original Sherman’s because the HE shells of the original Sherman’s were very usefully in many situations. Israel built Sherman 50....bigger gun still. Used until the mid 70’s. Sherman 51 lasted until the ‘80’s
The Tiger II would most likely be bouncing some shots. But I wonder about the effects in reality. Even a bouncing shot would probably have a nasty effect on the crew. Both in the deafening sound and the shock of being hit. The crew would most likely at least be dazed for a few seconds.
I recon from that one tiger with all thoes shallow holes which i think is fake especially when allways geting hit at the same place or close by,thoes holes would just get deeper and deeper until that front armour is broken and cracked up and then finally penetrating it.a 17 pounder knocking that front armour several times would of cracked or smashed that armour,or would of managed to go through especially if you hit a similar spot several times.
Gshama that one tiger who got hit constantly would have either a crew dead or wanting to die. Cause of that period of German engineering the armour would have basically started cracking, leaving shrapnel in the inside or breaking of layers. Just like the panthers did. And cause if the sheer power of a 17 pounder they would be deaf and dazed, not laughing at the guns. You are so true
auto didakt regardless of how elite the crew was, I doubt it would make them any more immune to the shock waves and noise, and definitely not any spalling fragments from the inside of the tank, that many shots would cause pieces of armour on the inside to break off
Yes and the loss rate was higher for the standard Sherman ie with out the 17 pounder anti tank gun fitted they could be easy be replaced where the tiger is more complicated to manufacture and took longer to build and not reliable. and to heavy for some bridges where the Sherman was lighter and could cross bridges so tactically had a advantage.
All tanks at that time were unreliable. You would be surprised. The problem is they were a new concept for a vehicle that started in ww1. Even by ww2 they were still a new concept. The big problem german tanks usally have is that there huge. If the Americans tried to build a tank as big and as early as say the tiger 1, the problems would've been even more than the gremans. That is one of the big reasons they didn't have big tanks till late in the war and that is probably because they had some helpful designs from the germans and what they seen Russians using as well.
@@afremrf9764 your words are BS. The Sherman, was quite a reliable tank. A German officer, commanding Panthers, was very unlikely to have 60% operational, whereas an officer in command if a group of Sherman's, would go into action with a much higher % operational
@@leeshackelford7517 it was probably higher, yes I agree, don't know how much % tho, but also a panther is about 10 tons heavier so I would hope the Sherman would be more operational.
In WoT the 17pdr will only pen the lower plate of the Tiger 2 if your aiming up at it, hell even the 122mm D25T has a massive chance to not pen if the Tiger 2 is slightly angled
Those 17 pounders could have easily penetrated the side armour seems like an unlikely scenario because the allies speed would have out manoeuvred and possibly won with heavy casualties
Lando Lucas not really,while the Sherman have top speed of 48km/h,the tigers can still barely reach 40km/h in a terrain like this map since it is rather flat.
30 fireflies pushing up the center using each other's corpses as cover while the other 20 flank from either side 10 & 10...vs 10 tiger II's easy to pen big side of king tiger turrets decisive victory with all king tigers destroyed and maybe 8 fireflies remaining.
According to history channel, if single tiger 1 swarm by sherman m4, those sherman could outflank tiger rear armor but when they succeed atleast 4-5 sherman would be defeat,..
i agree speed and ability to move fast on the battlefield was the Tigers downfall, but Americans and allies really dreaded the Panther tank, with that 85 gun.it was a beast but we learned how to kill them by the bushel, adapt and overcome your enemy.frontal sloped heavy armor is all they had, we shot them in the sides and our gunners was so good they could put a round between the turrent and tank body blowing it completely off.
This is a tip for all world of tanks and war thunder players : just shoot the back of the turret then the ammo explodes then the king tiger is now dead
I think that many hits to the front, with such a powerful gun, would quickly chew that armour up. Just look at that Tiger 2 on display... somewhere. It has big chunks taken out of it from each hit it took.
I agree,if early shots made small dents,a couple more would dig in properly and take chunks and crack and smash the armour and depending on the round too and range,they say a sherman firefly could ko a tiger 1 frontally at 1000m and its front armour was 100mm approx or so if the article was real,i think it is true approximately,so taking that into consideration,a sherman firefly at close range with a few hits,especially in the same place would eventually pose serious problems,given the fact that the tiger juat stood their and if the real tank crew were crazy like the ones in the game lol ,i think a sherman firefly can take less shots to ko a tiger 2 frontally,compared to this game,,i doubt they would still be standing from all thoes blows,and i highly doubt they all that great and totally invincible,sure a few rounds may bounce off or slightly penetrating,but i highly doubt a tiger 2 can take so much blows from a powerful gun like the 17 pounder
Actually the 17 pounder could penetrate the frontal armor(150mm) glasis plate , especially with sabot rounds,but the 88 L70 was the king of the battlefield in 45.
3:30 Nice bukkake on that tiger, but the fireflies should've eventually pierced through its armor. These are powerful guns and every hit weakens and cracks the armor a bit. As far as I know, older Combat Missions did simulate this gradual weakening with repeated hits.
Wittman was the 5th best, K. Knispel, M Schroif, O. Carius and J. Bolter scored more. And Wittman got 70% of his kill's in a Stug. Knispel is unheard of because he blotted his copy book by trying to save Jews from execution. He is featured in the footage of lots of Tiger 2s parading in a field. Knispel died on foot in the Czech republic.
Knispel was actually killed by artillery. An artillery shell landed near his Königstiger and a shrapnel hit him in the head (like many tankers, he left his hatch open to increase awareness). He fell from his seat and the crew thought he died to a sniper. Just a few days before the war ended in Germany on the Eastern Front.
@@jordangatewood28 ok a bit more info than I had found on him. What I read said he had abandoned his tank due to breakdown or no fuel and was walking home when killed and left behind to be buried in the corner of a church yard by locals. This appeared likely given his involvement in Hitler's last and failed offensive into Hungary/Romania would certainly have started, like the Ardennes, without adequate supplies. I did see the Chieftan talk on the Tig2/Panther hatch and it's half open locked position being situationally good (raised about 6" and locked in position). But who knows? I certainly was not there to bear witness...
@@prof_kaos9341 Yeah, his Königstiger took a finishing blow after he was pulled out of the tank and taken to a church. He finally buried in April 2013 when people found him. He was identified by his dog tag.
Now that you're not being biased in your videos, but are showing the legit true, I'm enjoying the content much more. :) keep up the good work WarfareGaming. and have a like! 👍🏼
A somewhat disjointed match. In reality several of the Shermans would flank the tigers and easily take them out from the sides and behind. A Firefly can kill a King Tiger.
bmused55 firstly,in a 1000m encounter,48 km/h isn't going to teleport you to your enemy's side.Secondly,in long range combat,tigers have absolute advantage due to potent gun and high quality optics.
bmused55 can doesnt mean will. Frontally it would have been hard for the Shermans because apcbc cabt penetrate and apds was inaccurate as hell. Biggest factor here are the chrews, allied tankers were usually better trained from 1944 onwards but Tigers and Tiger IIs were usually manned with Veterans, so their experience was at least equal if not superior.
Poor formation strategy on the fireflies part. 50 vs 10, best to send 30 up the middle, & rush 10 to either side in a pincer/trident formation. The 30 going up center get in range faster & 25 being knocked out,(accounting for reloads) then its 20 vs 10 with hits to side of king tiger turrets plus a few survivors in center...easy win for the firefly mass.
Dambuster tiger 2 oder koenigstieger hatte im Gegensatz zum tiger 1 eine Vanadium verstärkte wanne die den stahl elastischer gemacht hat und so 90% aller geschosse mit Leichtigkeit abweisen konnte. da der firefly nur 72.6 mm besaß somit fast unmöglich schaden anzurichten. Erst gegen Kriegs Ende trat stalin mit der is3 auf die Bühne und erst dann gab es einen wirklichen Gegner für den König in Sachen panzern. Die Alliierten konnten den tiger 2 fast ein Jahr nur mit Luft Unterstützung bezwingen.
Why am I watching this in bed? Great video! But realistically a Firefly would flank an enemy King tiger especially when they had speed to their advantage. A full frontal attack is suicidal.
Clever, the Fireflies are not firing AP ammo are they, and using no tactics. Tests show 17pdr APDS ammo could penetrate the front of a Tiger 2 at 1,000m so run your "Sim" again but let the Fireflies use armour piercing ammo this time. Clever "cheat" guys..
In real life, small groups of Fireflies would have executed a flanking maneuver in order to get in the back of the Tigers, as there is no chance to penetrate that frontal armor.
If you read the real penetration figures for 17 per apes you would know most of KTs would have had barrels shot off and frontal armour would have fatally shattered. The same was for most Panthers made after 1944 due to shortages of molybdenum and other minerals needed to make decent face hardened armour plate.
firefly would penetrate the king tigers and tigers even from the front, the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre with sabot rounds
This made it seem like a Firefly would never ever ever in anyone's wildedst dreams penetrate the Tiger IIs front armor. Basically every shot just bounced. Does armor not get weak?
I recon thoes tigers 2 will not really be normal after all thoes hits,if not operational anymore,shots at the same place of near is gona probably take chuncks and make cracks and spawling and weaken that armour,especially with all that hitting.
My late uncle said to me, at point blank range, the sherman would glance off the tiger yet at 1800m. the tiger could destroy a sherman. When she British added that longer barrel, it helped, yet still didnt compete
To bad in reality by the time the kt came around the armor wasnt hardened as well as it should have been. There for after a few hits it would crack up or rounds would work their way through them.
Of course if you hit a Tiger tank that many times, not only would your ears be ringing but spalling would be ricocheting around until it hit someone or something!
This is a few years late but I just wanted to point out something people might not know. Now full disclosure I'm not sure if this is true for the Firefly with the British 17 pounder gun but the American M4A3E8 with the Long M1A2 76mm gun while incapable of penetrating the frontal hull armor (without closing within 400 yards and then this was only possible with the incredibly rare HVAP shell which they only tended to carry about five of per tank) they were surprisingly very capable of penetrating the Tiger II's turret face even with the standard APHE shell at just about any range as long as the gunner was a good enough shot to hit it. Also while I know a lot about tanks and their history I can't remember if any instance of this actually happened in WW2 but I do know it was proved in armor penetration studies post war. Specifically in American and British tests to determine whether the American Long M1A2 76mm or British 17 pounder was a better gun. The study concluded the American Long 76 was more accurate and had generally better penetrative qualities but I don't remember by how much.
I was expecting 50 Sherman drive up, flank and surround Tigers, I learned that in the world of tanks that a single tier 10 heavy tank has every little chance to face 2 tier 7 light scouting tanks.
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3:32 Germans Laughing at pounder guns XD.
Master Grey in real life they mostly cried at them.
Abgrib789 And the heart from the brits would ,,stand still'' (a german saying translated. It is used if somebody is really badly shocked) due to the Tiger Fever. And then they would be like:,, THAT'S A FUCKING TIGER !!!''
I’m dead...the most hilarious thing ever
Samoan/Mud Crab because it’s a stupid simulation 😂
76mm actually strong enough to take out a tiger
Tiger crew: what was that?
Captain: it's just rain
Tiger crew: what was that?
Sergeant: It was the wind
kanonier : Was ist das?
Kommandants : nichts ,vielleicht regnen?
This is a firefly it would penetrate the king tigers the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre
The amount of shells bounced by the Tigers has outnumbered the the current amount of comments on this video.
views*
You
The Firefly was armed with a British 3 inch, 17 lb anti-tank gun - not the much less powerful standard 75 mm gun on a standard Sherman. The projectiles of the 3lb gun would not have bounced off like that.
@@herbb8547 outside of 500m, you couldn't hit the side of a building,big you were IN the building
3:33 that laughing is gold. LMAO
German heavy tank crews:If there aren't so many goddamn bombers with their thousand pounders and rockets , war would be easier…………
+Jesting tw+ Let my tankers tank!
remember that Tiger II has weak side armor (80mm), and our smart genius american tankers are always able to flank the German armors in movies!!!
+Jeffer Peng+ A; go ahead and try to flank with 2000m of open ground in front of the Tiger IIs (that's an ideal distance for engaging Sherman's in said tanks) B; you can always angle a Tiger II's hull to increase effective side protection.
as you mentioned, in the movies :)
yeah, it was meant to be sarcasm
My opinion the King Tiger II is the most beautiful tank ever built!
Viper para me, the T95. but yes, king tiger is beautiful.
The tiger 1 is still my favourite that box shape mmmmmm
I think the easy eight is the best looking one
I love both the Tiger I and King Tiger. The King Tiger was sexier in my humble opinion, but it's close. The King Tiger was a monster, and unfortunately for the Germans it was too late in the war. It also required a tonne of petrol, which the Germans simply did not have. The Tiger I was my favourite tank. It was one hell of a killing machine, and with Tiger Aces like Micheal Whittman commanding the thing, it took a toll on the Allied's machines.
Yes, but with the Porsche-turret, not with Henschel!
If you were inside a King Tiger that got hit by that many 17pd shells you would be deaf at best, but probably dead from internal flaking and concussive injuries
The 17 pdr is not a 122mm or 152mm Soviet large calibre gun firing high explosive shells, it's only a medium caliber 76mm firing solid AP shots only... without high explosive filler... so no boom, no spalling and no armor cracking. It either penetrates or bounces. No explosion, no weakening of the armor
@@xAlexTobiasxB Technically true, but don't forget that Tiger's turret and lower hull do act as a kind of "resonance box" so you don't need an explosion itself to receive a sound wave inside of it.
@@asheer9114 Not exactly mate. You need to compare the weight as well. Weight of 17pdr is nothing as compared to the mass of Konigstiger! Certainly 122mm or 152mm shell would have been fatal
German crews had hearing protection, at best ear damage and some headaches which under heavy influence of adrenaline wouldn't make much difference in combat
plot twist: 9 out of 10 Tigers broke down driving to the battle.
Facts
Plot Twist: they were on the defensive they didn't need to advance
KV-1 vs Churchill
Metapod vs metapod
Patton vs Centurion
TOG :D
КВ победит, у него пушка хотя бы нормальная была, а не эта двух фунтовка.
YES
Why can't my Warthunder matches in the Tiger II H go this well?!
cnlbenmc Because of map making, APDS (not present in this game), people using tanks and not dumb AIs and being fighting post war tanks at your BR with a late WW2 tank.
+BLAKz.+ Brit tanks in Warthunder should be automatically uptiered when equipping APDS rounds. Though I wouldn't go so far as to compare Warthunder to Call of Duty (that's what World of Tanks is for) except perhaps for arcade mode, which i don't play.
Because you are facing cold war tanks.Even though without the cold war tanks,tiger 2 is a decent tank,not op or some shit like that.
cnlbenmc because of BR. I enjoyed the game when playing the IS2 1944 vs king tiger. It was a trade off. Now after the BR changes when WWII tanks can be paired up with pre modern mbts with heat, almost pointless to try. I unlocked the stalinium is3 during the first br changed and boy it was so frustrating to vs t54s and any other tank with heat. I was stuck with 200mm of pen while everyone else one shotted me from the pike.
BLAKz. Have you lost your mind? Really a freaking call of duty?
First time, used actual map, not a blank one, hope you like that
50 KV-2 vs 3 M1 Abrams
SHERIFF HOTDOG i dont think HE would kill it but it will mess up the gun
I did it was cool and funny
SHERIFF HOTDOG i think thats a great idea
WarfareGaming What game or simulator is this?
"Theyre scratching your paintjob Hermutt"
NEIN NEIN NEIN
Lol I heard the Germans inside the “Royal Tiger” laughing from all of the rounds bouncing off 😂
*2:40** - **3:12*
*Gunner: I'm tired of shooting*
*Commander: Let's just bounce shells and wait to them run out ammo before us*
*3:32*
*Commander: Laughing Maniacally in German*
*3:41*
*Commander: To fuck back*
*Gunner: JaWoHL !!!*
sherman’s are supposed to flank and encircle not be used as static heavy tanks
They are CPU, they don't strategize
I agree. Not a good test, the Shermans would flank them and shoot at the sides and rear. The Tiger had a spot under the turret that would be vulnerable, and the turret would stop moving. Then they would move in for the rear shot and the kill. These idiots just stayed stationery and shot at the front glacis plate over and over. BAD TEST.
It doesn't matter, result will be same
They can flank when they are in densely forested theaters like Normandy, where tank engagements are mostly at 300 meters. German tanks were designed to fight on the Eastern Front, where engagements are typically 1-1.5 km, with some going up to 3km.
Flanking wasn’t possible, unless you have overrun the neighboring unit of the target you are flanking.
@@thomaszhang3101 The Sherman with the upgraded engine, which the Firefly had, could hit 40 mph in a straight run. The German tanks were not designed to hit targets moving that fast. Flanking was not only possible, it was standard practice.
I love how on their first ever deployment in the east 45 Tiger 2's set out on a 30 mile road march to Ogledow and only 8 of them made it. The rest broke down!
That tells you all you need to know about how good a tank they were.
Towarzysz Beagle exactly!
Ah bullshit the early T-34 crews would strap an extra transmission on the back they were so bad eventually they got better and the KV1 was even clunkier difficult to drive had bad ergonomics and broke down often. Starting With the Tiger 1 the Germans used a transmission steering system they had stolen from the English that worked really nice and would Allow the tank to piourette in place unlike your skid steer systems that most tanks had in those days. Aside from early production difficulties with the Panther and Tigers once they were sorted out the German tanks were by far the most effective best engineered and best built tanks of WW2 period. Feared and respected by all who had to face them. There are documented events not unlike this animated video where small numbers of Tiger tanks Decimated large numbers of Shermans. There There's a gang tiger type that still sits as a monument in a small village in Germany with many dents on just like the one in the video, None of which Penetrated.And the Panzer 3 was Well sorted and of quality production as well as reliable and Every aspect of it better or equal to a T34. The Panzer 4 also equal to or better Then a T34 in every aspect except maybe mobility.The british 17 pounder as tested by the Americans was powerful and effective but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn past 4 or 500 yards accuracy was an issue Likely because of the earlier sabot rounds. The Panther tank,as tested by the Americans, Outperformed the Sherman in every single off road test was faster better armored And had a far more effective gun.The quality of the steel for instance of the German tanks was far superior to especially anything the Russians were producing at the time the welds were better the quality of the gun sights was better and they had radios Which obviously gave them better communication German industry was far more developed probably more than anybody else on the planet at that time. Russian tanks Especially were crudely built And hastily pushed out to the front to get straight to the fighting .Those people paid dearly for every foot of ground they managed to wrest from the grip of the German army 25 million Russians died Horrible scorching deaths Same for the Americans and English.
3:31 love that laugh
2:42 bold strategy by the shermans, keep nudging the tiger so its cannon can't be steady enough to fire, and hoping that the tiger crews suffer from severe headache from those clanging noises
I know this is just a game, but the gun camo on the 17 pounders kept throwing me off, having me think they were regular Sharmans. Interesting to see.
Das Tiger OP
+WarfareGaming+ yeah the the only way a Firefly is gonna punch through the front of a Tiger II is with APDS rounds and only through the turret cheeks unless you get really close (though the turret cheek shots are a depressingly common occurrence in Tier IV Warthunder matches).
Der*
Der Tiger B
WarfareGaming Der
Tiger 2 had at max 185mm of armor... The sherman firefly with apds had 233mm of penetration at 1000m and at 100m which is closer to what this "simulation" shows it has 275mm of penetration... The simulation is wrong... The tigers should all be dead
*Laughs in 250-300mm effective protection.*
This is a firefly it would penetrate the king tigers the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre
Lol the Germans were laughing at the peunny 17 pounders
Well, the 17 Pounders is alot more powerful than most Allied guns in the field and it capable of knocking out any German tanks that is below the King Tiger tank.
Puny? Excuse me but while not being a very good tank gun actually a pretty bad one it was amazing used as a field gun
king tiger can be destroyed by apds .Ref wiki
JustQinn Not good? Ask Whitman
WHY.....although the Yeomanry's Firefly Vc's took out the three accompanying Tigers, it was the CANADIAN Shermans sitting behind the walls of the villa on the flank that took down Whittman.......credit where credit is due...it was a team effort...BUT Whittman's Tiger was out of range for the Fireflys.......it has been PROVEN......do some research...
This depends on when this battle took place as the British had developed the Sabot round for the seventeen pounder by 1944.
The King Tiger first saw action in 1944 so this is probably Brits with sabot rounds
@@aviationlover3613well if its sabot round then the king tigers will lose even with ap shells they will lose why bcuz 50 fireflies against 10 king tigers and sitll lose is just doesnt make sense
Sherman firefly is a tank killer, it's capable penetrate panther and tiger tank frontal Armour
WoW the little Sherman's and their 17 pounders were dropping like flies!!! Literally
2:42 omg look at the tiger!
Well Hanz, looks like we are going to need a new coat of paint for the tank now yes...
I was thinking of post war Sherman’s the 17 pound gun was WWII. The Germans learned quickly that Firefly could penetrate the armor of both the Panther and Tiger tanks. The British used it the most. They tended to mix Firefly with the original Sherman’s because the HE shells of the original Sherman’s were very usefully in many situations. Israel built Sherman 50....bigger gun still. Used until the mid 70’s. Sherman 51 lasted until the ‘80’s
3:32 German tank crewman laughing
I think in reality, with a 5-1 advantage you can outmaneuver and surround the enemy, picking them off from their flanks.
Similarly KonigsTiger would have aimed from a distance of 3kms not 1km
2:45 irl the metal plate turns weak and deformed
Awe man....!! Someone keyed the paint on my King Tiger!
I love your films!
MEINE SCHON PANZER!!!!!
It means: Meine Schönen Panzer
KΓÜGΞR oh thanks my german is extremley basic
TheGuyWhoKnowsTheWay guess what? I am german XD
KΓÜGΞR unpredictable ending lol
TheGuyWhoKnowsTheWay ja. Es ist serh schöne.
The Tiger II would most likely be bouncing some shots. But I wonder about the effects in reality. Even a bouncing shot would probably have a nasty effect on the crew. Both in the deafening sound and the shock of being hit. The crew would most likely at least be dazed for a few seconds.
WHAT?! I CANNOT HEAR YOU!
I recon from that one tiger with all thoes shallow holes which i think is fake especially when allways geting hit at the same place or close by,thoes holes would just get deeper and deeper until that front armour is broken and cracked up and then finally penetrating it.a 17 pounder knocking that front armour several times would of cracked or smashed that armour,or would of managed to go through especially if you hit a similar spot several times.
In reality no King Tiger tank was ever destroyed by a shot from the front.
Gshama that one tiger who got hit constantly would have either a crew dead or wanting to die. Cause of that period of German engineering the armour would have basically started cracking, leaving shrapnel in the inside or breaking of layers. Just like the panthers did. And cause if the sheer power of a 17 pounder they would be deaf and dazed, not laughing at the guns. You are so true
auto didakt regardless of how elite the crew was, I doubt it would make them any more immune to the shock waves and noise, and definitely not any spalling fragments from
the inside of the tank, that many shots would cause pieces of armour on the inside to break off
Silly, the Fireflies would have used their speed to Flank them, not fight this way !!!
Yep, and the Tigers would have opened up at 3 kilometers not 1 kilometer. You could have sent 200 Fireflies as long as the Tigers had ammo.
Altered Beast loads of them fireflys would have got round the back smoke shells first then flank
I thinked that cannon was too heavy for a sherman making then more slow and easy to break
The Firefly had almost no mobillity. Not like the Tigers but he his mobility was bad.
@@krosskreut3463 Not at all the Firefly was powered by 5 Chrysler motors only in the online tank game are the firefly's slower
Yes and the loss rate was higher for the standard Sherman ie with out the 17 pounder anti tank gun fitted they could be easy be replaced where the tiger is more complicated to manufacture and took longer to build and not reliable. and to heavy for some bridges where the Sherman was lighter and could cross bridges so tactically had a advantage.
sherman early on had issues, but was one of the most capable by wars end. Im almost certain it has the highest survival rate of any tank in the war.
All tanks at that time were unreliable. You would be surprised. The problem is they were a new concept for a vehicle that started in ww1. Even by ww2 they were still a new concept. The big problem german tanks usally have is that there huge. If the Americans tried to build a tank as big and as early as say the tiger 1, the problems would've been even more than the gremans. That is one of the big reasons they didn't have big tanks till late in the war and that is probably because they had some helpful designs from the germans and what they seen Russians using as well.
@@afremrf9764 your words are BS.
The Sherman, was quite a reliable tank.
A German officer, commanding Panthers, was very unlikely to have 60% operational, whereas an officer in command if a group of Sherman's, would go into action with a much higher % operational
@@leeshackelford7517 it was probably higher, yes I agree, don't know how much % tho, but also a panther is about 10 tons heavier so I would hope the Sherman would be more operational.
Sherman commander: *sees Pz IV with additional armor*
That's a Tiger!
O shit your right.. lets the fuckk outta dodge than m8.. lol
Pretty much every encounter the Americans had with German Armour was exactly that...
why u no target the lower glacis?
Ask the AI why I dunno.
WarfareGaming exactly, I'm asking the AI behavior.
Because its not world of tanks where lower plate is auto pen
Yann Schüler nor War Thunder neither.
In WoT the 17pdr will only pen the lower plate of the Tiger 2 if your aiming up at it, hell even the 122mm D25T has a massive chance to not pen if the Tiger 2 is slightly angled
1 shot from that L71 high velocity 8.8cm gun and it's game over!
Gee, remind me how Germany won the War...
soviets knows that better!
This WW 2 footage gave me chills
Those 17 pounders could have easily penetrated the side armour seems like an unlikely scenario because the allies speed would have out manoeuvred and possibly won with heavy casualties
Lando Lucas not really,while the Sherman have top speed of 48km/h,the tigers can still barely reach 40km/h in a terrain like this map since it is rather flat.
they could have just shot smoke in the tigers face and force them to retreat or outflank them
30 fireflies pushing up the center using each other's corpses as cover while the other 20 flank from either side 10 & 10...vs 10 tiger II's easy to pen big side of king tiger turrets decisive victory with all king tigers destroyed and maybe 8 fireflies remaining.
According to history channel, if single tiger 1 swarm by sherman m4, those sherman could outflank tiger rear armor but when they succeed atleast 4-5 sherman would be defeat,..
i agree speed and ability to move fast on the battlefield was the Tigers downfall, but Americans and allies really dreaded the Panther tank, with that 85 gun.it was a beast but we learned how to kill them by the bushel, adapt and overcome your enemy.frontal sloped heavy armor is all they had, we shot them in the sides and our gunners was so good they could put a round between the turrent and tank body blowing it completely off.
This is a tip for all world of tanks and war thunder players : just shoot the back of the turret then the ammo explodes then the king tiger is now dead
The tiger 2 only buff its front armor from 100 - 160 and they forgot the sides.
Nice. Just wondering how accurate is this?
Realism: 1/10
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL BECAUSE I LOVE TANK :D and your battle is very good I love Tiger 2 make a battle whit Sherman m4a3e8 vs Pz I've and 2 tiger 1
Those two tigers went “To Hell and Back”
AC6000 Railfan Productions and they "saw crosses grow on Anzio"
@@edwardkenway148 lol
3:31 HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
myatt soee The German laughing because the rounds are bouncing off the armor.
@@wtf-hc3tpfirefly would penetrate the king tigers and tigers even from the front, the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 500 metre
I think that many hits to the front, with such a powerful gun, would quickly chew that armour up. Just look at that Tiger 2 on display... somewhere. It has big chunks taken out of it from each hit it took.
I agree,if early shots made small dents,a couple more would dig in properly and take chunks and crack and smash the armour and depending on the round too and range,they say a sherman firefly could ko a tiger 1 frontally at 1000m and its front armour was 100mm approx or so if the article was real,i think it is true approximately,so taking that into consideration,a sherman firefly at close range with a few hits,especially in the same place would eventually pose serious problems,given the fact that the tiger juat stood their and if the real tank crew were crazy like the ones in the game lol ,i think a sherman firefly can take less shots to ko a tiger 2 frontally,compared to this game,,i doubt they would still be standing from all thoes blows,and i highly doubt they all that great and totally invincible,sure a few rounds may bounce off or slightly penetrating,but i highly doubt a tiger 2 can take so much blows from a powerful gun like the 17 pounder
Actually the 17 pounder could penetrate the frontal armor(150mm) glasis plate , especially with sabot rounds,but the 88 L70 was the king of the battlefield in 45.
Sabot rounds could indeed pen almost 230 mm at 1000 meters but those rounds were very rare untill after the war
3:30 Nice bukkake on that tiger, but the fireflies should've eventually pierced through its armor. These are powerful guns and every hit weakens and cracks the armor a bit. As far as I know, older Combat Missions did simulate this gradual weakening with repeated hits.
But the 17 ponder gun could pin a tiger.... The best tank ace of the German army was killed by a Firefly.....
That was a Tiger 1 with frontal armor
Wittman was the 5th best, K. Knispel, M Schroif, O. Carius and J. Bolter scored more. And Wittman got 70% of his kill's in a Stug. Knispel is unheard of because he blotted his copy book by trying to save Jews from execution. He is featured in the footage of lots of Tiger 2s parading in a field. Knispel died on foot in the Czech republic.
Knispel was actually killed by artillery. An artillery shell landed near his Königstiger and a shrapnel hit him in the head (like many tankers, he left his hatch open to increase awareness). He fell from his seat and the crew thought he died to a sniper. Just a few days before the war ended in Germany on the Eastern Front.
@@jordangatewood28 ok a bit more info than I had found on him. What I read said he had abandoned his tank due to breakdown or no fuel and was walking home when killed and left behind to be buried in the corner of a church yard by locals. This appeared likely given his involvement in Hitler's last and failed offensive into Hungary/Romania would certainly have started, like the Ardennes, without adequate supplies. I did see the Chieftan talk on the Tig2/Panther hatch and it's half open locked position being situationally good (raised about 6" and locked in position).
But who knows? I certainly was not there to bear witness...
@@prof_kaos9341 Yeah, his Königstiger took a finishing blow after he was pulled out of the tank and taken to a church. He finally buried in April 2013 when people found him. He was identified by his dog tag.
Krupp stahl may be tough and all but the multiple hits and the resulting spalling inside would probably kill or incapacitate the KT’s crew.
AP solid shot doesn't cause spalling, you'd need HE for that
Now that you're not being biased in your videos, but are showing the legit true, I'm enjoying the content much more. :) keep up the good work WarfareGaming. and have a like! 👍🏼
Lucas I The Great when is he biased?
JustQinn When an allied tank destroys his Wehraboo dreams
SerTchouwy this has been my favorite response
SerTchouwy didn't see his profile picture before, makes sense why this comment is a thing now.
Same and actually this is more realistic.
Fury and band of brothers are propaganda movies after all
BS Firelfy carried a 76.2 mm high velocity gun...it would have penetrated ..at 1000m the Firefly would have out flanked them in moments...
A somewhat disjointed match. In reality several of the Shermans would flank the tigers and easily take them out from the sides and behind. A Firefly can kill a King Tiger.
bmused55 firstly,in a 1000m encounter,48 km/h isn't going to teleport you to your enemy's side.Secondly,in long range combat,tigers have absolute advantage due to potent gun and high quality optics.
bmused55 can doesnt mean will.
Frontally it would have been hard for the Shermans because apcbc cabt penetrate and apds was inaccurate as hell.
Biggest factor here are the chrews,
allied tankers were usually better trained from 1944 onwards but Tigers and Tiger IIs were usually manned with Veterans, so their experience was at least equal if not superior.
thats a fact ,sir.
How often did the Germans have 10 Tigers in one place? They usually ran out of petrol on the way
@@hauptmann_ivan thats true, German tanks had very high quality optics and many times the Sherman tank gunner was just bore sighting.
-Hans?
-ja?
-wheres the paint?
-why?
-we're going to normandy
Poor formation strategy on the fireflies part. 50 vs 10, best to send 30 up the middle, & rush 10 to either side in a pincer/trident formation. The 30 going up center get in range faster & 25 being knocked out,(accounting for reloads) then its 20 vs 10 with hits to side of king tiger turrets plus a few survivors in center...easy win for the firefly mass.
crews inside a tiger deflecting that many shells would probably be deaf and have their brains scrambled
According to the internet a Firefly could take out a tiger .
Dambuster tiger 2 oder koenigstieger hatte im Gegensatz zum tiger 1 eine Vanadium verstärkte wanne die den stahl elastischer gemacht hat und so 90% aller geschosse mit Leichtigkeit abweisen konnte. da der firefly nur 72.6 mm besaß somit fast unmöglich schaden anzurichten. Erst gegen Kriegs Ende trat stalin mit der is3 auf die Bühne und erst dann gab es einen wirklichen Gegner für den König in Sachen panzern. Die Alliierten konnten den tiger 2 fast ein Jahr nur mit Luft Unterstützung bezwingen.
Just Tiger I no Tiger II But Tiger I and Tiger II too can destroy easy a Firefly XD
It wasnt as powerful as the tiger but it was definitely more than a challenge
Dambuster firefly can take down a tiger but if its on the back
I am quoting from a WW2 veteran
What's this software?
German tank it the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why am I watching this in bed? Great video! But realistically a Firefly would flank an enemy King tiger especially when they had speed to their advantage. A full frontal attack is suicidal.
*Chuckles in Aryan.*
British people is also aryan 😂
Didn't the Firefly's have sabot rounds?
No
@@seabasssmith7487 Are you sure? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_17-pounder.
Ah look at all these firefly and sherman fan boys in the comments section complaining.
Master Grey haha. Oh nothing to wehraboos who can't take it that 17pdr can wallop right through its turret or lower glacis.
Sherman AI - "If we turn side-on to the Germans, they'll be confused and stop firing at us."
German AI - ...
another ridiculous and unhistorical tank battle...
Benedict Chan well thats what happend in ww2 while ameria making over 50.000 of shermans germans only did so much lesser but guailty was better
No. Quality was not better for Germany at all.
Johan Lassen so thats why almost all types of german tanks destroyed over 7 tanks? Or was the alies tank crew so idiot??
German tank kill-to-loss ratio was not 7:1 on the Western front.
and on eastern?
Clever, the Fireflies are not firing AP ammo are they, and using no tactics. Tests show 17pdr APDS ammo could penetrate the front of a Tiger 2 at 1,000m so run your "Sim" again but let the Fireflies use armour piercing ammo this time. Clever "cheat" guys..
Man this is cool!
In real life, small groups of Fireflies would have executed a flanking maneuver in order to get in the back of the Tigers, as there is no chance to penetrate that frontal armor.
The Tiger at 2:55 has a world record for deflection bruises.
Saunders: *double the Fireflies!*
Kuromorimine: *double the Tiger II!*
Results: an intense battle
what do the red +'s mean above the tanks?
This is an easy win for the fireflies
You forgot the point at which 7 or 8 of the tigers 2s break down on the way to the battlefield and have to be abandoned.
If you read the real penetration figures for 17 per apes you would know most of KTs would have had barrels shot off and frontal armour would have fatally shattered. The same was for most Panthers made after 1944 due to shortages of molybdenum and other minerals needed to make decent face hardened armour plate.
All fireflies are dead , next they should bring 50 butterflies
The German tank crew in that King Tiger at 3:00 were like, man these 17 pounder rounds are bouncing off like Tennis balls ROFL
firefly would penetrate the king tigers and tigers even from the front, the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre with sabot rounds
What do you use? The program or simulator
This made it seem like a Firefly would never ever ever in anyone's wildedst dreams penetrate the Tiger IIs front armor. Basically every shot just bounced. Does armor not get weak?
I recon thoes tigers 2 will not really be normal after all thoes hits,if not operational anymore,shots at the same place of near is gona probably take chuncks and make cracks and spawling and weaken that armour,especially with all that hitting.
Me? After losing the first ten Fireflys I would have called in an air strike.
Get' em brothers!
This is a firefly it would penetrate the king tigers the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre
2:42, wow a near-miss
Bey Fireflys! Where are the next 50 Butterflys? 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is a firefly it would penetrate the king tigers the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre
My late uncle said to me, at point blank range, the sherman would glance off the tiger yet at 1800m. the tiger could destroy a sherman. When she British added that longer barrel, it helped, yet still didnt compete
It will the firefly can penetrate up to 256mm at the range of 1000 metre
If the fireflies would close range rapidly in mass they would win
To bad in reality by the time the kt came around the armor wasnt hardened as well as it should have been. There for after a few hits it would crack up or rounds would work their way through them.
Germans: bleeding from all ears...
You forgot the 50% the 50% of Tigers broken down before battle.
Ok tigers are savage but they would have bean shredded
0:54 when you got to ur bae’s door and she said that her parent just got home
Why did not they load gold ammunition in FIREFLYS
Of course if you hit a Tiger tank that many times, not only would your ears be ringing but spalling would be ricocheting around until it hit someone or something!
nice cool germany tank king tiger!!!
this was awesome
This is a few years late but I just wanted to point out something people might not know. Now full disclosure I'm not sure if this is true for the Firefly with the British 17 pounder gun but the American M4A3E8 with the Long M1A2 76mm gun while incapable of penetrating the frontal hull armor (without closing within 400 yards and then this was only possible with the incredibly rare HVAP shell which they only tended to carry about five of per tank) they were surprisingly very capable of penetrating the Tiger II's turret face even with the standard APHE shell at just about any range as long as the gunner was a good enough shot to hit it.
Also while I know a lot about tanks and their history I can't remember if any instance of this actually happened in WW2 but I do know it was proved in armor penetration studies post war. Specifically in American and British tests to determine whether the American Long M1A2 76mm or British 17 pounder was a better gun. The study concluded the American Long 76 was more accurate and had generally better penetrative qualities but I don't remember by how much.
Sherman tank was a great joke
This video isnt even accuraye
I like the ricochet noises
I was expecting 50 Sherman drive up, flank and surround Tigers, I learned that in the world of tanks that a single tier 10 heavy tank has every little chance to face 2 tier 7 light scouting tanks.