I had a spider build a web in my window inside my bedroom. Sometimes moths would get in through the poor seal between the ac unit and the window frame, so I figured I'd let the little guy help me out. I remember watching it rebuild the web one night as I was waiting to fall asleep, and it would move around to each of the radial strands and give two quick tugs as if checking the tension. It was pretty cool to watch, but now I am thinking I was seeing it tuning its instrument. Cool video!
@@samsanimationcorner3820 enjoying whimsy is for children and make believe. If he wanted to write a fiction book about musical spiders, that's one thing. But seeing reality as something other than what it is is absurd.
Finally a spot for this Alexander Pope quote I've had stashed in my brain for forty years: "The spider's touch how exquisitely fine! Feels at each thread and lives along the line."
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds. "And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
It seems that having a web that is not perfectly symmetrical would make it easier for a spider to determine exactly where every vibration comes from (as every individual length of string would be unique) and for a musician to identify the different keys/notes.
@@webrishithink of it like a piano with all strings ending at a central circular point. If a hammer hit any string it would be a unique note and you at the center could feel feel the location based on the note
@@steezydan8543 thank you for clarifying. Wonder how the spider is able to identify where the vibrations came from in its symmetric-web setup. In any case, thank you. Your explanation made more sense to me.
Because there are 8 main lines going out in all directions and the spider has a leg placed on each individual main strand, so they can feel first which direction the insect is in by which main string vibrates the most.. is how I understood it... and then they can tell even more specifically from there by the vibrations of the smaller connections strands exactly where it is. That is how I understood it. Cheers!
But it's not really perfectly symmetrical but just as close as it gets to that for the sake of a strong structure. But in nature perfect circles to use as a rim of a spiderweb to make it perfectly symmetrical are rare. Also consider that the sting that goes across is a spiral, so there technically aren't 2 identical ones on the entire web and the whole thing is unique even if the structural strings were to be perfectly symmetrical in a wheel, the spiral is not. And that also means that being as close to being symmetrical as you can with that design is gonna be easier for a spider for different webs to be similar enough to be able to read or "hear" the information they give as reliably as possible with just instinct, it's not like spiders have complex brains like us to learn the quirks of every single unique web. And even if they were, every piano is similar, every guitar is similar, and so on. There will be differences between different models and stuff, but they need to be similar enough even for humans who learn to be able to use them readily.
My husband and I were lucky enough to be in the crowd at Emerson that afternoon, and though I am 110% terrified of spiders (and thus did not appreciate the extreme, horrifying close-ups in this segment), it was a super-cool experience. The science and engineering behind this project are fascinating. Thank you, Tom & Jane Johns, for hosting this wonderful event!
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds. "And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
my little heart just overflowed with love..what humanity is is right there, our potential, our art, maybe even ways to communicate with those on our planet and those we've still to meet...we can be amazing.
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds. "And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
Simplify your model using the circle of fifths dropping octaves as you journey out along the pie wedges. It will make it much easier to play and you'll always be able to stay in key.
@@wiggleroom3039 I'm seeing something with the Golden Spiral and the Fibonacci sequence. Best seller for newest stringed instrument or maybe an artistic xylophone.
🤯 this is incredible research! 🔬 An acoustic-analog version of this instrument using stretched guitar strings that are soldered / would be mind blowing! Honestly! Add a differential make it off-center! Woah it’s beautiful! ❤ if you make it off-center you’ll have more variation in sound! Absolutely cool!
Hmmm, I'm intrigued. I think there's something worth exploring in this as a musical instrument concept, but it would probably have to leave the "spider" itself behind. The biggest source for the slow response here is that this isn't ACTUALLY a musical instrument. It's a MIDI instrument being played by a computer simulation of a spider brain, based on input from a physically simulated web. One could do many many rounds of continuous improvement of the "spider brain" model to make it faster and more accurate, as they clearly already have begun, and turn it into a decent MIDI interface. Or, they could remove the spider entirely and make a web-like layout where each string section independently registers to a midi action, turning it into a unique "keyboard" of sorts, a string variant of the growing multitude of midi instruments available. OR... one could explore possible "acoustic" variants of the web itself. I really want to see what this would look and SOUND like if you attempted to base the web on the harmonic series. Like, could you build the "rays" from piano wire, or rigid spring steel or wood, and the "spiral" from guitar strings or harp strings? How could you tune it? Could you move the connection points as well as tighten/loosen the tension? Would you need straight or curved rays? Could you have more than one spiral-string? Would it need to be diatonic, or could you have a chromatic or even microtonal version (that didn't sound like crap)? Would the spiral string even work, or would you need multiple individual strings (making it strictly a harp with an alternative layout)? Could you play it from the side like a concert or lap harp, or would it always be too large to reach? There's also a large potential hole in this entire concept, both musically and biologically: Actual spider webs aren't this tight. The archetypal orb-weaver web that this resembles is closer to a cargo net than a harp: it's got slack in it. Relatively speaking, of course. If you just built a cargo net that you could sit in the middle of, you could easily tell if a smaller person or even animal hopped onto it, and where they were on it. You could feel the shift in balance and tension, and especially the continuous movement and figure out where it was all coming from, without the benefit of millions of years of hyperspecialized evolution. So, the TYPE of vibration, the mode of vibration might not be the mechanism at work at all, making this NOT useful inspiration for a musical instrument either.
A real musical instrument version of this would be impossible to tune effectively as far as i can tell, though it's fantastic inspiration for a variety of new harp designs.
I looked at the midi player, but i think it is more to keep it to a tune (each red section) as it would have all sorts of crazy harmonics going on. That being said, if you look at the spiral, mathematically each red section has a unique length and tune but the distances are not very accurate in the video. i won't repeat myself but you can see my OP and some other comments I made about it. There are an immense number of possibilities in this device that don't emerge at first sight :) I also identified more than 1 way information is simultaneously transmitter to the 8 sensors giving at least 2 layers of accuracy.
@@drangus3468 Um, where did you get spider brain from? The perception process of perceiving images from the vibration is well studied and scientifically shown and that is a function of the brain, but not the brain itself.
Fascinating. Spiders survive on 'vibrations' which create sound.. anyone do a deep think on this.. 'Spider Music' and how Nature, again and again seems to have some sort of music to it. BioInspiration is an awesome endeavor. I love the research going on about spider silk.
Kircher mentioned this in the 1600's with a nice spider diagram too. "I have observed a remarkable and hidden harmonic artifice in the structure of spider webs. If these webs were strong enough to withstand tension, I would say that they could produce a most perfect ten-stringed instrument. I observed that spiders usually make their webs in hexagons, with a surface composed of ten strings, stretched so skillfully that their length constitutes a perfect decachord. If divided into six equal parts, I say that the chords within each triangle are so woven that they form an exact decachord (10 string instrument), and the lines are so proportionate that the last one to the first produces a octave with a semitone, while the remaining chords are similarly proportional and provide the other natural tones" He also mentions to use iron or silk, i'm not sure why bungie cords would with chosen?
I suspect most people watching this video would think, "What a callosal waste of time and money." As a musician, I think of how many discussions my son-in-law and I have had about the very aspects of physics you mentioned in this video. He's a physic professor at the local collect and we both play guitar. Thanks to extensive research, there has been great progress in my lifetime in the manufacture of guitar strings. Thank you so much for sharing this info and letting us know how we can also learn much from the insects.
Have you heard of New Standard Tuning? It was created by Robert Fripp from king crimson. It wasn't possible to tune like that until advances in guitar necks were made allowing greater tension.
@@nojuanatall3281 Thanks for the reply, Nojuan. I've watched a number of videos about various interpretations of 'A' (i.e. A = 440, etc.). I knew guitarists were experimenting with variations but I haven't heard about Robert Fripp's. Thanks for the heads up. I've been playing since the 1960s so I doubt I'll change.
Being able to write a melody as an octagonal shape is a really neat idea. Actually I guess it would need to be septagonal. I wonder how they handled the eigth side on the web.
Just use any diatonic scale. C major for example.:C D E F G A B C Or a pentatonic scale. My HAPI drum has 8 notes and is in D minor Pentatonic: D F G A C D F G
@@noa_1104 if they built it like a spiral, sure. But you may as well just build a spiral keyboard at that point. It would also make it very difficult to play
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds. "And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
@@motherlandmars5999when will theists realize how stupid they look? It’s 2024 and you have a world of information at your fingertips. How can you still be that oblivious?
Definitely was. I was checking comments to see if anyone caught it. I busted up laughing. It was the longest section of music he played in this video. 🍻
This is beautiful. Science, engineering and music. Things that can really unite people. Not divisive topics like religion, sports or politics. Lovely video! Thanks ❤!!
That rendition of Hurt was something unique. Also totally agree about that "giving melodies a shape" thing. Very cool, shame I never thought of it this way before.
As someone who has often been intrigued by the multitude of "visual" patterns that emerge from the guitar fret board, as well as the patterns that may emerge from a riff in the scale I find this octagonal fret board quite intriguing. As an IT professional and programmer I also find this quite thought provoking in the sense of the emergence of entropy or patterns from the underlying mathematical algorithms expressed through graphic visualizations. > The spider "sees" or visualizes via the sound pitch and direction. This has similarities to studies that I have looked over where engineers developed a system of 2D sound that the brain of a visually impaired person can re-interpret as form of spatial awareness or pseudo sight. In time the visual center of brain will begin to overlay a pictographic expression of that spacial awareness with colour, shades and depth. Some of this original study and the engineering drew from medical information about the cross over between the visual and audio centers of persons under the influence of LSD. I also believe their is a critter that hunts in the water at night using "audio echo" feedback similar to bats, but the physical string idea is quite different; more direct. > To extrapolate this idea to the extreme, we can imagine the universe as a web or mesh of fine strings, except instead of just sensing information from a point on the web the information could also be sent to converge at a single point in the web or mesh from which a particle may emerge from that point in the wave function. Most novel and impressive idea I have seen in a very long time. Thank you posting a video explanation on this :)
Right? This creation gives me ideas. Combining a humdrum type with a reverb air harp. Omg it's would be majestic metal or epic folk sound. Would be fun. Which would make is scalable as well.
Wtf are you talking about...you sound like a chatbot... LDS is nothing but fun poison lmao so sick of hearing all the pseudo science surrounding it... And literally bunches of animals echo locate underwater... sound has always been associated with detecting the world around us... This spider web study is just a lark... if theres any benefit to it at all I cant see it... What this video actually seems to convey is that outside of a corporately owned lab with real risks and rewards on the table science is basically becoming a joke because wealthy brats from modern American colleges have cornered the profession and dilute it with their extremely shallow ego driven goals...
Yeah in my opinion the visual centers of the brain are actually for making maps and spatial judgements rather than just what we usually think of with sight It extends to touch too! Such with braille and tracing shapes on someone's skin. If we had a nose with 2 directional chambers we would be able to smell to replace visuals. Reptiles forked tongues are great at that.
@@orbismworldbuilding8428 You are correct with that. the visual cortex processes all available information including past memory events to "Create in image" in the minds view screen. If what we see (eyes) has missing information or doesn't fit into a neat past category the brain overlays additional information to fill the gaps or make corrections to what the eyes see (This happens with the other senses too). Stephen Pinker has an exceptional ability for explaining and illustrating how much of that works. They just plugged a transplant eye into someone not long back, so it will be interesting to see how successful they are with the neurons. It's kind of scary exciting just how close we are to having Start Trek Borg implants.
If I understand correctly, the sound is synthetically produced, so you could tune this harp to be fully chromatic, especially if it can distinguish the sections between radials. I'm not clear on how exactly it's tuned as is tbh. Also, now I'll be singing "Spider-Harp" to the Spider-Man song all day, so thanks.
One big problem though: the prey doesn't "pluck" the spiral silk, it sticks to it. Moreover, the way the stretchy silk works, its vibrations are extremely dampened even if you manage to pluck them without sticking; they only do about 3 full oscillations before stopping. This is because the "stretchy" silk doesn't actually stretch; instead it spools inside the tiny droplets placed along its length, which pull the silk inside with surface tension (a sort of reverse capillary action), and the apparent "stretching" is mostly just unspooling of these silk balls inside droplets. This mechanism dissipates a lot of energy, and the oscillation dies out very quickly as a result.
One variable to consider is that it would be mostly flying insects caught in the web, their wings generating vibration in various states of restriction.
This whole thing is a crock of shit, but people are looking past it because this sort of shit attracts idiots who either don't care or will just take their word on it.
There are already existing midi devices that can connect with your acoustic guitar to play a synthesizer module. This however is a much more sophisticated setup but it uses the same principle. Much harder still, is having to deal with the latency between vibration made from acoustic components into digital. This was a most educational and inspiring presentation!❤❤❤❤❤
this is a very interesting development. how very human to have a desire to understand one of our co-habitants on the planet and then go on to build a device that someone else found could be a musical instrument. ( 05:56 kudos to the camera person who saw and then captured the notes resonating in the glass of wine)
Mmmm. I looove my spider friends ❤❤❤ I have orb weavers all over my yard and I check on them every day. I have gotten to see them so some amazing things with their webs. So magical.
Very cool looking, but I'm pretty sure it's a MIDI controller at this point right? Would be amazing to see a functional acoustic version, although I'm sure engineering tension and tuning on something like that is a nightmare.
A few months ago I witnessed a very small spider building a web in my bathroom. It actually seemed kinda big, it went from my door to halfway to my sink, along the bottom of the wall to the floor. We did have a fly problem so I let it be, but more importantly geckos sometimes moved into the house to keep the spiders in check. Anyway, I observed the spider would sometimes make the anchor strings, then go back to weave the web itself, then back to anchor. As it made the anchor it would walk some distance along the ground with a leg in the air, reach a point then tap a leg on the opposite side, onto the floor, then walk back, rinse and repeat. I can't tell if it simply grew up or got taken over, but a week later I saw a larger spider in its place.
Usually spiders do not take over the webs of other spiders. I suppose your little spider shed his old skin. Spiders have an exosceleton that doesn't grow with them. Therefore they have to shed their old exosceleton/skin when they are growing bigger. It's quite similar to crabs or other crustaceans
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds. "And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
Now they should try and figure out the sound of a male spider when its beating rhythmically on the females web in hopes for a receptive mate. Is it random? would equate to something we would consider musical?
This was a thought I had after a bad experience with personal energy and health I woke up one morning after a few months of bad living and bad attitude, to the sight of a BLACK WIDOW nesting right by my face between my pillow and the wall! I flipped out.. after I came back to reality through a couple arachnaphyleptic fits, I wondered (after I destroyed the house and killed a mad spider), how would a black widow web sound compared to a fine tuned orb weaver web? NOW I KNOW. The strangest part is where I thought about it again an hour before I clicked on this video! Pluck a string on a web if you're brave enough... pluck another.... see what happens.... go ahead, play a swan song, that's what all spider prey do when they get caught....
Damn, Hurt on a Spider’s web? Intriguingly powerful. Just when you think you couldn’t elevate something like Cash did, something unique like this comes along. Would love to see Reznor’s reaction to this. ❤
Slightly slower paced environment. Compelling natural environment outside. University level expectations of thought and discourse. Abundant pot smokers. Boom.
I have always remembered when my grandmother told me never to kill a spider because they control other pests. I have found that if their web is in my way that I can ask the spider to move the web and they will. Truly.
What an interesting idea! Definitely need to string it with actual nylon harp string filaments & wrapped wire strings for the bass notes. That would be awesome! Some suggested piano wire but the sustain would be too long & the sound would be muddy (I know this b/c have a wire-strung harp). Thanks for sharing.
Hey, my sister is in the field that this guy is! She also studies the movement of animals to try and better robotics/human prosthetics. It's awesome to see this engineering used to cross over into more of my side of things (the arts)!
@@bldbar118 also, a weird thing I just noticed yesterday, the algorithm will recommend you different videos based on what device you're using. I usually watch yt on my tv and when I switch to my phone it starts recommending me garbage.
Got caught in web today It seems that I'm the meal I'm someone else's gain The folly of this deal The spider weaves a whirl A coiled silken thing Try to flee and fly away But I have tender, tiny wings What will I become? My feet go limp Emptied but a shell Drained of my haemolymph And you will have your fill My entire gut I get swallowed down I am not enough
I feel like there's a bit of a missed opportunity regarding this instrument and and how it's displayed / experienced by the audience. I thought the whole point of the experiment was to try and experience the world the way that the spider does. Wouldn't it make sense to put speakers all around the audience or the person playing the instrument and have sounds corresponding to where it's coming from playing from the speakers in that actual Direction? Everyone listening can feel closer or farther away from wherever the sound is happening as if they're sitting in the web
We’ve got an octophonic surround-sound rig for the SpiderHarp, and have used it for smaller science-focused demonstrations along the lines you suggest. For performances like those in the video, we generally use the venue sound system as it is better sized for the space.
The added natural benefit of the spider web is that the closer the target is to the center the higher pitched the sound. So it also works as a threat alert system for proximity
I love this. I play drums with a free improvisational quintet, and one of our musicians is a Foley Artist. We make a lot of homemade instruments and this would fit right in. Are the pitches accurate to the physics of the instrument, or are you being creative with the tuning?
It's clearly just a midi controller. There's no way a set up like this would actually produce sound. They've just mapped each strand of the web to a note on a keyboard; it wouldn't reflect the actual physics at all
We’ve got sound modes that range from “just frequency shift the raw sound at each foot into human hearing range” to the full “use the eight pickup signals to identify which string is being plucked, and map sounds to each string” mode featured in this video.
Interesting. I knew about spiders "hearing" movement in their web with their legs already, from somewhere I don't remember... But a spider's web as a musical instrument, that reawakens very old childhood memories. In the children's tv-series "Kleiner König Kalle Wirsch" from the 1970's ( see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleiner_König_Kalle_Wirsch ), every time the little king meets a spider's web, he sings his song, accompanying himself by strumming the net - which sounds a bit like a guitar, but who cares ( see ruclips.net/video/wcPgc6-DNaw/видео.html )
I presume you are aware that spiders are not people, and that they don't have a sense of hearing. The investigation was about how spiders sense prey they can't hear and barely see (or don't see) and know exactly where it is. Thing is, humans don't have sensitive hairs in their legs (also, they have only two) to assess distance and direction of a vibration, so it was translated to sound, to see whether an electronic sensor at the center of the web could determine direction and distance, expressed in that sound. All of what can have applications, like in security, rescue, robotics, etc. This is engineering, not abstraction. The *algorithm* was the point. The musical instrument was a beautiful derivation of the research. Did you watch the video?
Imagine being this ignorant and still thinking you know more than the people doing the research. And all you had to do was watch the video. Great job, Dunning-Kruger is alive and well in Oregon!
This is like a harp version of the Piano Spiral I came up with (there's a playlist in my channel) as a way to visualize music by wrapping piano keys around. The "shape" of the melody he describes makes some very interesting patterns.
Chet and Ross are great people! I am so happy to see this. I moved away from Corvallis quite a few years ago now, and wow is it crazy to see this video! Corvallis, OSU, and those folks are awesome.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Spiders are the only web developers that enjoy finding bugs in their systems.
🤣
If only we got a free meal for every debug sesh
Underrated comment!
Brilliant
hahaha genius!!
I’d genuinely *love* to know why the ‘obvious’ answer to “how big should the web be?” is “eight feet. duh.”
I love this guy.
Because spiders have 8 feet.
At the depth that these guys are operating, I’d bet it was a simple upscaling of web diameter to paracord diameter.
@@thorr18BEM Hahaha! Both you and that guy are miles ahead of me. I feel as if I'm a babe amongst lions.
vriska...
Other spiders; I found a web to build in.
I had a spider build a web in my window inside my bedroom. Sometimes moths would get in through the poor seal between the ac unit and the window frame, so I figured I'd let the little guy help me out. I remember watching it rebuild the web one night as I was waiting to fall asleep, and it would move around to each of the radial strands and give two quick tugs as if checking the tension. It was pretty cool to watch, but now I am thinking I was seeing it tuning its instrument. Cool video!
Nah it wasn't tuning its instrument. This is pseudo science and is quite daft to be honest.
@@bigbasil1908 oi, off with that nonsense. Let the dude enjoy some whimsy.
@@samsanimationcorner3820 enjoying whimsy is for children and make believe. If he wanted to write a fiction book about musical spiders, that's one thing. But seeing reality as something other than what it is is absurd.
@@drcidd8153you sound like a fun person to be around
Because lets not forget, spiders are blind.
Finally a spot for this Alexander Pope quote I've had stashed in my brain for forty years:
"The spider's touch
how exquisitely fine!
Feels at each thread
and lives along the line."
I wonder how long you will have to wait until you use it again haha
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds.
"And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
It seems that having a web that is not perfectly symmetrical would make it easier for a spider to determine exactly where every vibration comes from (as every individual length of string would be unique) and for a musician to identify the different keys/notes.
How come? I am unable to follow your point of view
@@webrishithink of it like a piano with all strings ending at a central circular point. If a hammer hit any string it would be a unique note and you at the center could feel feel the location based on the note
@@steezydan8543 thank you for clarifying. Wonder how the spider is able to identify where the vibrations came from in its symmetric-web setup. In any case, thank you. Your explanation made more sense to me.
Because there are 8 main lines going out in all directions and the spider has a leg placed on each individual main strand, so they can feel first which direction the insect is in by which main string vibrates the most.. is how I understood it... and then they can tell even more specifically from there by the vibrations of the smaller connections strands exactly where it is. That is how I understood it. Cheers!
But it's not really perfectly symmetrical but just as close as it gets to that for the sake of a strong structure. But in nature perfect circles to use as a rim of a spiderweb to make it perfectly symmetrical are rare. Also consider that the sting that goes across is a spiral, so there technically aren't 2 identical ones on the entire web and the whole thing is unique even if the structural strings were to be perfectly symmetrical in a wheel, the spiral is not. And that also means that being as close to being symmetrical as you can with that design is gonna be easier for a spider for different webs to be similar enough to be able to read or "hear" the information they give as reliably as possible with just instinct, it's not like spiders have complex brains like us to learn the quirks of every single unique web. And even if they were, every piano is similar, every guitar is similar, and so on. There will be differences between different models and stuff, but they need to be similar enough even for humans who learn to be able to use them readily.
That 8 feet joke went over my head for a full minute and 20 seconds
I love when nerdy people are excited to show what they’re learning and researching. You can tell how happy this guy is to share
😂
My husband and I were lucky enough to be in the crowd at Emerson that afternoon, and though I am 110% terrified of spiders (and thus did not appreciate the extreme, horrifying close-ups in this segment), it was a super-cool experience. The science and engineering behind this project are fascinating. Thank you, Tom & Jane Johns, for hosting this wonderful event!
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds.
"And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
@@motherlandmars5999 shut up goofball, nobody cares.
my little heart just overflowed with love..what humanity is is right there, our potential, our art, maybe even ways to communicate with those on our planet and those we've still to meet...we can be amazing.
💯
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds.
"And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
Simplify your model using the circle of fifths dropping octaves as you journey out along the pie wedges. It will make it much easier to play and you'll always be able to stay in key.
But then you'd need a 12 legged spider.
I can already see this instrument being played everywhere.
@@nuberiffic we are creates are we not
@@wiggleroom3039 I'm seeing something with the Golden Spiral and the Fibonacci sequence. Best seller for newest stringed instrument or maybe an artistic xylophone.
This wolf be so cool to see and play
It’s a cross between a harp and a steel drum. You might look at how steel drums are played too, having played both.
🤯 this is incredible research! 🔬
An acoustic-analog version of this instrument using stretched guitar strings that are soldered / would be mind blowing! Honestly! Add a differential make it off-center! Woah it’s beautiful! ❤ if you make it off-center you’ll have more variation in sound! Absolutely cool!
Hmmm, I'm intrigued.
I think there's something worth exploring in this as a musical instrument concept, but it would probably have to leave the "spider" itself behind.
The biggest source for the slow response here is that this isn't ACTUALLY a musical instrument. It's a MIDI instrument being played by a computer simulation of a spider brain, based on input from a physically simulated web.
One could do many many rounds of continuous improvement of the "spider brain" model to make it faster and more accurate, as they clearly already have begun, and turn it into a decent MIDI interface.
Or, they could remove the spider entirely and make a web-like layout where each string section independently registers to a midi action, turning it into a unique "keyboard" of sorts, a string variant of the growing multitude of midi instruments available.
OR... one could explore possible "acoustic" variants of the web itself.
I really want to see what this would look and SOUND like if you attempted to base the web on the harmonic series.
Like, could you build the "rays" from piano wire, or rigid spring steel or wood, and the "spiral" from guitar strings or harp strings? How could you tune it? Could you move the connection points as well as tighten/loosen the tension? Would you need straight or curved rays? Could you have more than one spiral-string? Would it need to be diatonic, or could you have a chromatic or even microtonal version (that didn't sound like crap)? Would the spiral string even work, or would you need multiple individual strings (making it strictly a harp with an alternative layout)? Could you play it from the side like a concert or lap harp, or would it always be too large to reach?
There's also a large potential hole in this entire concept, both musically and biologically: Actual spider webs aren't this tight.
The archetypal orb-weaver web that this resembles is closer to a cargo net than a harp: it's got slack in it. Relatively speaking, of course. If you just built a cargo net that you could sit in the middle of, you could easily tell if a smaller person or even animal hopped onto it, and where they were on it. You could feel the shift in balance and tension, and especially the continuous movement and figure out where it was all coming from, without the benefit of millions of years of hyperspecialized evolution.
So, the TYPE of vibration, the mode of vibration might not be the mechanism at work at all, making this NOT useful inspiration for a musical instrument either.
A real musical instrument version of this would be impossible to tune effectively as far as i can tell, though it's fantastic inspiration for a variety of new harp designs.
I looked at the midi player, but i think it is more to keep it to a tune (each red section) as it would have all sorts of crazy harmonics going on. That being said, if you look at the spiral, mathematically each red section has a unique length and tune but the distances are not very accurate in the video. i won't repeat myself but you can see my OP and some other comments I made about it. There are an immense number of possibilities in this device that don't emerge at first sight :)
I also identified more than 1 way information is simultaneously transmitter to the 8 sensors giving at least 2 layers of accuracy.
Nowhere here is a computer simulation of a spider brain, please don't make sh*t up.
@@drangus3468 Um, where did you get spider brain from?
The perception process of perceiving images from the vibration is well studied and scientifically shown and that is a function of the brain, but not the brain itself.
@@axle.student Would you guess...I got it from the comment I replied to.
Playing Hurt, Clair de Lune, and Creep...dude has range! Well done!
Agree! Maybe he could add some Sting too? 😉 or flight of the bumblebee?...
Fascinating. Spiders survive on 'vibrations' which create sound.. anyone do a deep think on this.. 'Spider Music' and how Nature, again and again seems to have some sort of music to it. BioInspiration is an awesome endeavor. I love the research going on about spider silk.
Kircher mentioned this in the 1600's with a nice spider diagram too. "I have observed a remarkable and hidden harmonic artifice in the structure of spider webs. If these webs were strong enough to withstand tension, I would say that they could produce a most perfect ten-stringed instrument. I observed that spiders usually make their webs in hexagons, with a surface composed of ten strings, stretched so skillfully that their length constitutes a perfect decachord. If divided into six equal parts, I say that the chords within each triangle are so woven that they form an exact decachord (10 string instrument), and the lines are so proportionate that the last one to the first produces a octave with a semitone, while the remaining chords are similarly proportional and provide the other natural tones" He also mentions to use iron or silk, i'm not sure why bungie cords would with chosen?
I suspect most people watching this video would think, "What a callosal waste of time and money." As a musician, I think of how many discussions my son-in-law and I have had about the very aspects of physics you mentioned in this video. He's a physic professor at the local collect and we both play guitar. Thanks to extensive research, there has been great progress in my lifetime in the manufacture of guitar strings. Thank you so much for sharing this info and letting us know how we can also learn much from the insects.
Have you heard of New Standard Tuning? It was created by Robert Fripp from king crimson. It wasn't possible to tune like that until advances in guitar necks were made allowing greater tension.
@@nojuanatall3281 Thanks for the reply, Nojuan. I've watched a number of videos about various interpretations of 'A' (i.e. A = 440, etc.). I knew guitarists were experimenting with variations but I haven't heard about Robert Fripp's. Thanks for the heads up. I've been playing since the 1960s so I doubt I'll change.
Being able to write a melody as an octagonal shape is a really neat idea. Actually I guess it would need to be septagonal. I wonder how they handled the eigth side on the web.
You could use a scale with eight notes, like the octatonic scale.
It sounded bad so I guess they didn't know what they were doing
Just use any diatonic scale. C major for example.:C D E F G A B C
Or a pentatonic scale.
My HAPI drum has 8 notes and is in D minor Pentatonic: D F G A C D F G
@@nuberifficSure, but this also has rings in higher octaves. so with 7, it could perfectly wrap continue and align in a spiral way
@@noa_1104 if they built it like a spiral, sure.
But you may as well just build a spiral keyboard at that point.
It would also make it very difficult to play
Reminds me of how the first Moog synthesizer was actually a scientific experimental machine on sound wave manipulation.
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds.
"And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
@@motherlandmars5999 nah its just straight up CHAOS there is no god there is ONLY CHAOS
@@kalagoddess3843 When you still your body and mind you will see that you and God are one, that all is one. Plain as day.
@@motherlandmars5999when will theists realize how stupid they look? It’s 2024 and you have a world of information at your fingertips. How can you still be that oblivious?
Great video!
Very interesting!
You can bet someone out there is improving the Web Harp! Very cool!
Some enterprising luthier is going ot try within the next 10 years, too.
Very cool! Spiders and music are two of my biggest passions so fantastic to see the two join forces! Also was that 'Hurt' by NIN?! Nice job!!
Definitely was. I was checking comments to see if anyone caught it. I busted up laughing. It was the longest section of music he played in this video. 🍻
And it ended on Creep. XD
Yup.
But no Clair De Lune 🥲That piece is begging to be played on something like this
@@6Sparx9There’s a full recording of the Guthman performance (which features Clair de Lune) up on my channel
This is beautiful. Science, engineering and music. Things that can really unite people. Not divisive topics like religion, sports or politics. Lovely video! Thanks ❤!!
That rendition of Hurt was something unique.
Also totally agree about that "giving melodies a shape" thing. Very cool, shame I never thought of it this way before.
thank you i was looking to see if anybody else noticed
As someone who has often been intrigued by the multitude of "visual" patterns that emerge from the guitar fret board, as well as the patterns that may emerge from a riff in the scale I find this octagonal fret board quite intriguing. As an IT professional and programmer I also find this quite thought provoking in the sense of the emergence of entropy or patterns from the underlying mathematical algorithms expressed through graphic visualizations.
>
The spider "sees" or visualizes via the sound pitch and direction. This has similarities to studies that I have looked over where engineers developed a system of 2D sound that the brain of a visually impaired person can re-interpret as form of spatial awareness or pseudo sight. In time the visual center of brain will begin to overlay a pictographic expression of that spacial awareness with colour, shades and depth. Some of this original study and the engineering drew from medical information about the cross over between the visual and audio centers of persons under the influence of LSD. I also believe their is a critter that hunts in the water at night using "audio echo" feedback similar to bats, but the physical string idea is quite different; more direct.
>
To extrapolate this idea to the extreme, we can imagine the universe as a web or mesh of fine strings, except instead of just sensing information from a point on the web the information could also be sent to converge at a single point in the web or mesh from which a particle may emerge from that point in the wave function.
Most novel and impressive idea I have seen in a very long time. Thank you posting a video explanation on this :)
Right? This creation gives me ideas. Combining a humdrum type with a reverb air harp. Omg it's would be majestic metal or epic folk sound. Would be fun. Which would make is scalable as well.
Wtf are you talking about...you sound like a chatbot... LDS is nothing but fun poison lmao so sick of hearing all the pseudo science surrounding it...
And literally bunches of animals echo locate underwater... sound has always been associated with detecting the world around us...
This spider web study is just a lark... if theres any benefit to it at all I cant see it...
What this video actually seems to convey is that outside of a corporately owned lab with real risks and rewards on the table science is basically becoming a joke because wealthy brats from modern American colleges have cornered the profession and dilute it with their extremely shallow ego driven goals...
Yeah in my opinion the visual centers of the brain are actually for making maps and spatial judgements rather than just what we usually think of with sight
It extends to touch too! Such with braille and tracing shapes on someone's skin.
If we had a nose with 2 directional chambers we would be able to smell to replace visuals. Reptiles forked tongues are great at that.
@@MrJayOkane Sorry, I couldn't understand what you were trying to say in that?
I was talking about the underlying physics.
@@orbismworldbuilding8428 You are correct with that. the visual cortex processes all available information including past memory events to "Create in image" in the minds view screen. If what we see (eyes) has missing information or doesn't fit into a neat past category the brain overlays additional information to fill the gaps or make corrections to what the eyes see (This happens with the other senses too).
Stephen Pinker has an exceptional ability for explaining and illustrating how much of that works.
They just plugged a transplant eye into someone not long back, so it will be interesting to see how successful they are with the neurons. It's kind of scary exciting just how close we are to having Start Trek Borg implants.
This is why I love the internet, learning and seeing new things!
Fascinating! I know a lot of hard work and collaboration went into this project!
If I understand correctly, the sound is synthetically produced, so you could tune this harp to be fully chromatic, especially if it can distinguish the sections between radials. I'm not clear on how exactly it's tuned as is tbh. Also, now I'll be singing "Spider-Harp" to the Spider-Man song all day, so thanks.
One big problem though: the prey doesn't "pluck" the spiral silk, it sticks to it. Moreover, the way the stretchy silk works, its vibrations are extremely dampened even if you manage to pluck them without sticking; they only do about 3 full oscillations before stopping. This is because the "stretchy" silk doesn't actually stretch; instead it spools inside the tiny droplets placed along its length, which pull the silk inside with surface tension (a sort of reverse capillary action), and the apparent "stretching" is mostly just unspooling of these silk balls inside droplets. This mechanism dissipates a lot of energy, and the oscillation dies out very quickly as a result.
I think they just wanted to show off a new instrument.
One variable to consider is that it would be mostly flying insects caught in the web, their wings generating vibration in various states of restriction.
This whole thing is a crock of shit, but people are looking past it because this sort of shit attracts idiots who either don't care or will just take their word on it.
What an absolutely whimsical little octoagon i'll take 4
There are already existing midi devices that can connect with your acoustic guitar to play a synthesizer module. This however is a much more sophisticated setup but it uses the same principle. Much harder still, is having to deal with the latency between vibration made from acoustic components into digital. This was a most educational and inspiring presentation!❤❤❤❤❤
You are awesome
this is a very interesting development.
how very human to have a desire to understand one of our co-habitants
on the planet and then go on to build a device that someone else
found could be a musical instrument.
( 05:56 kudos to the camera person who saw and then captured the notes resonating in the glass of wine)
Mmmm. I looove my spider friends ❤❤❤ I have orb weavers all over my yard and I check on them every day. I have gotten to see them so some amazing things with their webs. So magical.
Very cool looking, but I'm pretty sure it's a MIDI controller at this point right?
Would be amazing to see a functional acoustic version, although I'm sure engineering tension and tuning on something like that is a nightmare.
Yeah it would probably give hammered dulcimer vibes at that point
Very cool!
A few months ago I witnessed a very small spider building a web in my bathroom. It actually seemed kinda big, it went from my door to halfway to my sink, along the bottom of the wall to the floor. We did have a fly problem so I let it be, but more importantly geckos sometimes moved into the house to keep the spiders in check. Anyway, I observed the spider would sometimes make the anchor strings, then go back to weave the web itself, then back to anchor. As it made the anchor it would walk some distance along the ground with a leg in the air, reach a point then tap a leg on the opposite side, onto the floor, then walk back, rinse and repeat. I can't tell if it simply grew up or got taken over, but a week later I saw a larger spider in its place.
Usually spiders do not take over the webs of other spiders. I suppose your little spider shed his old skin. Spiders have an exosceleton that doesn't grow with them. Therefore they have to shed their old exosceleton/skin when they are growing bigger. It's quite similar to crabs or other crustaceans
Every detail in nature points to the presence of a creator. This creator is, of course, Allah Almighty, Lord of the Worlds.
"And in your own creation, and whatever living beings He dispersed, are signs for people of sure faith." (Holy Quran; 45/4)
This is the kinda stuff that makes life worth living, thanks
Now they should try and figure out the sound of a male spider when its beating rhythmically on the females web in hopes for a receptive mate. Is it random? would equate to something we would consider musical?
That is so cool. Beautiful tones. I wonder how it would sound run through a moog synthesizer?
This was a thought I had after a bad experience with personal energy and health I woke up one morning after a few months of bad living and bad attitude, to the sight of a BLACK WIDOW nesting right by my face between my pillow and the wall! I flipped out.. after I came back to reality through a couple arachnaphyleptic fits, I wondered (after I destroyed the house and killed a mad spider), how would a black widow web sound compared to a fine tuned orb weaver web? NOW I KNOW. The strangest part is where I thought about it again an hour before I clicked on this video!
Pluck a string on a web if you're brave enough... pluck another.... see what happens.... go ahead, play a swan song, that's what all spider prey do when they get caught....
That Chopin piece at the music instrument competition seemed like a really good piece for the instrument :)
I never thought I would hear Debussy played on a spider web. Wow!
I’m blown away by this concept. Great engineering minds.
Damn, Hurt on a Spider’s web? Intriguingly powerful. Just when you think you couldn’t elevate something like Cash did, something unique like this comes along. Would love to see Reznor’s reaction to this. ❤
Ok I’m glad I wasn’t imagining that.. what an epic song choice.. 😭
I feel it may have been lost on the boomer crowd there but either way so cool 🕸🕷😍
Love how excited both of these guys are!
Fascinating. Could be useful for improving Acoustic Speaker and Microphone Diaphragm designs. Thanks
Nice work! Inspiring and fascinating.
This is incredible! Spiders are so beautiful. I live in Oregon, so if you play in my area, I will drop bt to hear the spider harp.
6:42 NIN / Cash song "Hurt" ! Great project, and video.
" SPIDER HARP " Rocks! Let me know if you guys need a drummer.
I'm going to turn my dining table into a piano. this way I'll get notified with a tune every time food is ready.
Typical Oregon development. Weird but in a fun and endearing way 😉
Slightly slower paced environment. Compelling natural environment outside. University level expectations of thought and discourse. Abundant pot smokers. Boom.
Emojis are gay
@NickRichards tent cities, homeless druggies breaking into your car... yes perfect for growth...
@@ryshellso526 Only if you move to certain parts of Portland. Not an issue where I live in Hood River County or in most parts of the state
Spiders are musicians!!! That's so dope
That statement about shape and octave sound like proximity detection
IS NOBODY GONNA COMMENT THAT THIS DUDE DID THE MOST GOTH THING EVER PLAYING HURT BY NINE INCH NAILS ON A FREGGIN SPIDER HARP?
I love spiders AND engineering. I hope the algorithm gives me more stuff like this :)
Somebody's gonna copy this thing now & start playing metal on it... I can't wait to hear what they come up with...
I had this idea for years now but it would use a dream catcher weave instead. I was thinking of using guitar strings and pickups.
I have always remembered when my grandmother told me never to kill a spider because they control other pests. I have found that if their web is in my way that I can ask the spider to move the web and they will. Truly.
What an interesting idea! Definitely need to string it with actual nylon harp string filaments & wrapped wire strings for the bass notes. That would be awesome! Some suggested piano wire but the sustain would be too long & the sound would be muddy (I know this b/c have a wire-strung harp). Thanks for sharing.
I believe it, sometimes when I walk into a web that I've seen a big spider in, I feel like screaming 😱. Silk is one of the strongest.
Hey, my sister is in the field that this guy is! She also studies the movement of animals to try and better robotics/human prosthetics. It's awesome to see this engineering used to cross over into more of my side of things (the arts)!
Love me some Oregon weirdness 😊
As opposed to the Chicago darkness.
@whiskeymonk4085 was that supposed to make some kind of sense or a point?
@@trentR3437 It was. Guess it flew over your head.
@whiskeymonk4085 please explain your point then? If it's so high-minded.
@@trentR3437 Sorry. I can't dumb it down for you. Good luck!
The algorithm has been mercilessly recommending me this video for like 6 months. Geeze, I'll watch you, just leave me alone 😂
@@jevinday lol same
@@bldbar118 also, a weird thing I just noticed yesterday, the algorithm will recommend you different videos based on what device you're using. I usually watch yt on my tv and when I switch to my phone it starts recommending me garbage.
Got caught in web today
It seems that I'm the meal
I'm someone else's gain
The folly of this deal
The spider weaves a whirl
A coiled silken thing
Try to flee and fly away
But I have tender, tiny wings
What will I become?
My feet go limp
Emptied but a shell
Drained of my haemolymph
And you will have your fill
My entire gut
I get swallowed down
I am not enough
Freaking Awesome!!! 💗💗💗
I feel like there's a bit of a missed opportunity regarding this instrument and and how it's displayed / experienced by the audience. I thought the whole point of the experiment was to try and experience the world the way that the spider does. Wouldn't it make sense to put speakers all around the audience or the person playing the instrument and have sounds corresponding to where it's coming from playing from the speakers in that actual Direction? Everyone listening can feel closer or farther away from wherever the sound is happening as if they're sitting in the web
We’ve got an octophonic surround-sound rig for the SpiderHarp, and have used it for smaller science-focused demonstrations along the lines you suggest. For performances like those in the video, we generally use the venue sound system as it is better sized for the space.
The added natural benefit of the spider web is that the closer the target is to the center the higher pitched the sound. So it also works as a threat alert system for proximity
Can't wait for the Eddie Van Halen of the Spider Harp!
Eddie van arachnid...
Webby...
I love this. I play drums with a free improvisational quintet, and one of our musicians is a Foley Artist. We make a lot of homemade instruments and this would fit right in. Are the pitches accurate to the physics of the instrument, or are you being creative with the tuning?
It's clearly just a midi controller.
There's no way a set up like this would actually produce sound.
They've just mapped each strand of the web to a note on a keyboard; it wouldn't reflect the actual physics at all
We’ve got sound modes that range from “just frequency shift the raw sound at each foot into human hearing range” to the full “use the eight pickup signals to identify which string is being plucked, and map sounds to each string” mode featured in this video.
@@rosslhatton nice. Interesting work. It has spurred a lot of interesting conversations on how a spider web communicates to the spider.
@@jmfs3497 Thanks!
6:30 I think that's the melody for Hurt by Cash and NIN, thought it sounded familiar.
I want to play that web!
PHD in Music composition.....and electrical engineering. That guy is cool.
Interesting. I knew about spiders "hearing" movement in their web with their legs already, from somewhere I don't remember...
But a spider's web as a musical instrument, that reawakens very old childhood memories.
In the children's tv-series "Kleiner König Kalle Wirsch" from the 1970's ( see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleiner_König_Kalle_Wirsch ), every time the little king meets a spider's web, he sings his song, accompanying himself by strumming the net - which sounds a bit like a guitar, but who cares ( see ruclips.net/video/wcPgc6-DNaw/видео.html )
I need to try this
I feel like this is something Rob Scallon could play.
Now they got to release an album "Songs of the death" with the sounds of the struggling insects tapping the strings in panic. 💀
Webs are not this musical. Definitely not in the western 12 tone chromatic scale.😂🍻
I love the web instrument. I really hope it gets a following and grows.
What?!?! Different sized strings make different pitches? We have to tell people about this! I don't think anyone else knows!!!!
I presume you are aware that spiders are not people, and that they don't have a sense of hearing. The investigation was about how spiders sense prey they can't hear and barely see (or don't see) and know exactly where it is. Thing is, humans don't have sensitive hairs in their legs (also, they have only two) to assess distance and direction of a vibration, so it was translated to sound, to see whether an electronic sensor at the center of the web could determine direction and distance, expressed in that sound. All of what can have applications, like in security, rescue, robotics, etc. This is engineering, not abstraction. The *algorithm* was the point. The musical instrument was a beautiful derivation of the research.
Did you watch the video?
Imagine being this ignorant and still thinking you know more than the people doing the research.
And all you had to do was watch the video. Great job, Dunning-Kruger is alive and well in Oregon!
This is really cool!
This design is actually really scientifically brilliant yet beautiful.
this is like an entire new way to conduct scientific study, amazing!
Great project .!
Beautiful work! 🕷🕸🙂
That man was born to play the spider-web, so wholesome
This is so cool!
It be really cool if different wedges had different sound profiles
What a magnificent tree.
This is like a harp version of the Piano Spiral I came up with (there's a playlist in my channel) as a way to visualize music by wrapping piano keys around. The "shape" of the melody he describes makes some very interesting patterns.
I am mystified by spiders they are very intelligent beautiful creatures
Awesome, that was magnificent, my heart heard the music! Thank you!
This seems so obvious when they explain it and i love that. Great job to everyone involved.
Chet and Ross are great people! I am so happy to see this. I moved away from Corvallis quite a few years ago now, and wow is it crazy to see this video! Corvallis, OSU, and those folks are awesome.
Very interesting
❤❤❤❤❤GORGICAL 🥰Thanks 4 your brilliance, beautifully crafted +Sound that STUN & NOT just ONE.
Harpist here, I find this exciting!
This is beautiful work. Thank you for sharing.
"So... you're a web designer?"
I recognized him playing Clair de Lune and Hurt.