It would not surprise me if they had been at some point considering other brands have moved manufacturing as well (or bought from different white label vendors)
The P gasket is less likely to distort and leak if over torqued, and also won’t come off the filter during replacement and stick to the block, unlike the square cut seal found on other filters. Also it’s good to see at least some orange cans don’t have fiber board ends caps
You do a great job in your videos, thank you. Napa Gold filters I believe are built Wix. I’ve had great luck with them, Avoid Fram for any application.
I literally just got home to see this video after tracking down a filter locally. My only 2 options were to go to NAPA and get Wix Gold or Nippon. Once I saw the half as much Nippon was the tall one I went with it instead. Go figure it has a weak valve in it. Oh well, on it goes! Great comparison!
To be fair we ran the Nippon filters in the black car for probably 50k miles and really never had an oil analysis come back funny other than once (and that 'once' was after an unanticipated 11k mile change interval.)
@@LapoftheWorld that's good to know. I just found it typical/funny that I see this video literal seconds after getting home from tracking down a filter and wondering about these very things.
Long time subscriber first time commenter. Excellent video as usual Richard. (Still have impressed Liz did all her own hoses!?!? WOW Much tougher tech than I. Was very sorry my wife and I didn't get to meet you and Liz at last expo and track event, I was waiting for a clutch, hoses, half shaft service, radiator...etc. at SOS. Just couldn't make it this year even though I was local.) Love the channel, and look forward to the videos _Very_ sorry to hear about the motor, but it did convince me to do the oil pan slosh mod. Good luck with the rebuild, I also think you made the right choice.) What about the Nippon Micro NSX T60 Oil Filter Mark sells at Mita? Thanks again, keep up the good work!
Re: potential contenders. If there is a Purflux made in France filter for the NSX, that could be pretty good. They do a lot of Ferrari filters and they used to do the standard 'most models' Honda filters in Europe (before those were discontinued and replaced by Fram A02s imported from North America, lol). There are some Purflux filters that are just rebadged Fram though, and not true Purflux filters with the zig-zag pleats (writing it like this, it does become obvious why the standard Honda filters in Europe would have been substituted for A02s now that Purflux is part of Fram!). A quick search doesn't turn up a Purflux though. But it did turn up a Mahle OC256 Made in Japan (also Knecht OC256) as a cross-reference to 15400-PL2-505? It says height 111.5mm, gasket 77mm and bypass pressure 1 bar (15 psi) so that seems correct. But it says the oil filter also fits the Honda Legend, so I don't know if that's a correct cross-reference.
One would think oil and filter these days would be better than anything from 1991. For testing filters assume one would have to get the oil tested while keeping the oil constant. Maybe we should ask what those 400k mile drivers are using
You would think, right? Potentially there have been advances in filter media, but clearly not in robustness of construction. I will be curious if any of the (remaining) high mile heroes chime in. Our 315,000 mile black NSX had been on the Ultra-8 filters until it's last oil change when I swapped on a Denso that came with Liz's car as a spare.
Thank you for the research. I am sure for the NSX when it was developed Honda engineers went into more depth with the oil filter design specs. Most of the filters available in the short form are most likely for 3-5 thousand mile oil changes and are more meant to fit a different Honda vehicle. I know now Honda doesn't engineer shit for the oil filter, they use the same one on everything pretty much. The same oil filter goes on a 2005 RSX 2.0L, 2019 Honda civic 1.5L, 2011 Honda pilot 3.5L V6, 2019 Honda Pilot V6, all with different recommendations for when to change the oil. Same spec for over 20 years. Too bad the NSX has an odd filter hook up or else there would be better premium options like the high-end Purolator or Bosch filters. Those are great.
Other than avoiding a filter that disintegrates too fast, isn't the only measurement that matters is how well the dang thing filters dirty oil and for how long? Aren't most of the measurements outside of particle analysis just red herrings?
For most NSX (or insert other exotic/sports/supercar here) owners I doubt the change interval ever goes much past 3-5k miles. So for those applications "how long" is less important. The key points then are the ability to filter dirty oil *while providing as little restriction as possible to the flow of oil*. The former, I didn't measure because I don't have the equipment/expertise. The latter is definitely (at least in-part) a function of surface area.
@@LapoftheWorld I think you're making a few assumptions. Certainly, filter area can be a proxy for flow rate but without actually measuring the flow through the media, how does one know if, in fact, there is less back pressure? The notion that more area means more flow is only accurate if the filter media is identical between filters which it may or may not be. Also, is there any engineering that suggests the ideal strength of the relief value? I'm with you that, intuitively, allowing dirt oil to recirculate is a bad thing but so is forcing oil through a clogged filter. Human intuition is built on layers of human biases so I rarely trust it without some science to back it up. ;-)
@@mhawke I'm not an engineer, but I was raised by one and I'm related to a few, lol. Definitely making some assumptions, which is why I didn't pick any "winners" or "losers" here but more present some data and stated a few of my admitted biases. My biggest question is probably around the relief valve resistance because I don't, for instance, know how much pressure would normally be required to force oil through any given filter media. If the BPV is opening at or below that pressure, then it's not really working as intended. I know at least a few racers who on-purpose run filters with no relief valve (they change the filter every race, so they'll never get clogged, but they don't want them running in constant bypass because of the very high RPM range they see).
Richard - remember, Honda specified conventional motor oil with a 6 month/7,500 mile change interval on the NSX...and, per the 1997-2005 Factory Service Manual, the oil filter change is every other oil change (12 months/15,000 miles)...so I think the new Mahle made Honda filter is probably overkill for most NSXs...why? First, I don't know anybody who doesn't change the filter every oil change. Next, Oil technology has greatly improved since the original "tall boy" was spec'd out by Honda to filter late 80s oils (and associated quality). Additionally, most people are running synthetic oil which is way better than the oil the engine was designed for. This means less wear...which means less "load" on the filter. Finally, no oil filter is designed to trap all the debris following a catastrophic failure and the driver can "keep on going"...it is designed to capture minute wear products...and for most NSX engines, the vast majority of wear happened 17-32 years ago when the engine and all the metal parts were brand new and were starting to "wear in" For me, the ease of getting the current Honda filter - coupled with doing oil changes at about 1/2 the mileage intervals of what Honda had spec'd out for the original "tall boy" makes this a fairly easy choice...especially given how much filter media really is packed into one of the new Honda "shorties"
I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above, thanks Steven. Honda has some really smart engine engineers, and if they spec the new filter as a replacement, I would go along with them.
@@dabuzz6611 I sort-of agree, but I am also fully aware that the engineers aren't the ones always in charge of procurement and manufacturer specification. Lots of Fram-built "Honda" factory filters out there...
@@joebezslu Yeah, these two Mahle oil filters -- the light blue S2000 one (15400-PCX-306) & the light blue NSX one (15400-PL2-306) -- are made specifically by Honda (or at Honda's request) for these two specific vehicles. I'm sure they work just fine for these vehicles, else Honda wouldn't go to the trouble of having these two unique oil filters made!
@@LapoftheWorld "Lots of Fram-built "Honda" factory filters out there..." That's true, but the light blue (i.e., made by Mahle Thailand) version of the standard Honda oil filter is the 15400-RAF-T01 (the one that's equivalent to the 15400-PLM-A02). But then Honda are specifically going to the trouble on top of that of having an S2000-specific and an NSX-specific oil filters made specifically for these two cars, so why wouldn't Honda make sure the specs are right for those cars? I appreciate the S2000 and NSX filters might be the same, apart from the bypass pressure, to cut costs and the capacity of the NSX filter may therefore be less than the older NSX filter though.🤔 I agree that it is *absolutely* a shame that the quality of the OEM Honda filter seems to have gone backwards compared to the overbuilt older Toyo Roki 😕, but the Honda filter does still seem to still be of decent quality compared to the others like the Mann/Bosch (Purolator). (It's interesting that the actual Purolator branded filter is totally different though, mind you!)
Thank you! I appreciate this review very much! You did a great job taking a scientific approach.
I always thought Fram was made in Mexico, learned something new.
It would not surprise me if they had been at some point considering other brands have moved manufacturing as well (or bought from different white label vendors)
THanks again Richard!
Great video Richard. Thanks for (not) solving the debate, but getting us some great data!
The P gasket is less likely to distort and leak if over torqued, and also won’t come off the filter during replacement and stick to the block, unlike the square cut seal found on other filters. Also it’s good to see at least some orange cans don’t have fiber board ends caps
Right?! Mark it down: oil filter comparison where the Fram wasn't the most disappointing.
Thank you for the information on the gaskets.
Can't help on the research but loved the scientific approach. 👍
You do a great job in your videos, thank you. Napa Gold filters I believe are built Wix. I’ve had great luck with them, Avoid Fram for any application.
I literally just got home to see this video after tracking down a filter locally. My only 2 options were to go to NAPA and get Wix Gold or Nippon. Once I saw the half as much Nippon was the tall one I went with it instead. Go figure it has a weak valve in it. Oh well, on it goes! Great comparison!
To be fair we ran the Nippon filters in the black car for probably 50k miles and really never had an oil analysis come back funny other than once (and that 'once' was after an unanticipated 11k mile change interval.)
@@LapoftheWorld that's good to know. I just found it typical/funny that I see this video literal seconds after getting home from tracking down a filter and wondering about these very things.
Long time subscriber first time commenter. Excellent video as usual Richard. (Still have impressed Liz did all her own hoses!?!? WOW Much tougher tech than I. Was very sorry my wife and I didn't get to meet you and Liz at last expo and track event, I was waiting for a clutch, hoses, half shaft service, radiator...etc. at SOS. Just couldn't make it this year even though I was local.) Love the channel, and look forward to the videos _Very_ sorry to hear about the motor, but it did convince me to do the oil pan slosh mod. Good luck with the rebuild, I also think you made the right choice.) What about the Nippon Micro NSX T60 Oil Filter Mark sells at Mita? Thanks again, keep up the good work!
Re: potential contenders. If there is a Purflux made in France filter for the NSX, that could be pretty good. They do a lot of Ferrari filters and they used to do the standard 'most models' Honda filters in Europe (before those were discontinued and replaced by Fram A02s imported from North America, lol). There are some Purflux filters that are just rebadged Fram though, and not true Purflux filters with the zig-zag pleats (writing it like this, it does become obvious why the standard Honda filters in Europe would have been substituted for A02s now that Purflux is part of Fram!).
A quick search doesn't turn up a Purflux though. But it did turn up a Mahle OC256 Made in Japan (also Knecht OC256) as a cross-reference to 15400-PL2-505? It says height 111.5mm, gasket 77mm and bypass pressure 1 bar (15 psi) so that seems correct. But it says the oil filter also fits the Honda Legend, so I don't know if that's a correct cross-reference.
I'll have to look up that j-spec Mahle. Sounds similar dimensions to the Denso.
The Purolator actually had MANN HUMMEL written on it in small writing.
Perhaps its a brand of MANN & Hummel just as the MANN filter is.
There's definitely been some aggregation in filter manufacturing, so that would not surprise me.
One would think oil and filter these days would be better than anything from 1991. For testing filters assume one would have to get the oil tested while keeping the oil constant. Maybe we should ask what those 400k mile drivers are using
You would think, right? Potentially there have been advances in filter media, but clearly not in robustness of construction. I will be curious if any of the (remaining) high mile heroes chime in. Our 315,000 mile black NSX had been on the Ultra-8 filters until it's last oil change when I swapped on a Denso that came with Liz's car as a spare.
Thank you for the research. I am sure for the NSX when it was developed Honda engineers went into more depth with the oil filter design specs. Most of the filters available in the short form are most likely for 3-5 thousand mile oil changes and are more meant to fit a different Honda vehicle. I know now Honda doesn't engineer shit for the oil filter, they use the same one on everything pretty much. The same oil filter goes on a 2005 RSX 2.0L, 2019 Honda civic 1.5L, 2011 Honda pilot 3.5L V6, 2019 Honda Pilot V6, all with different recommendations for when to change the oil. Same spec for over 20 years. Too bad the NSX has an odd filter hook up or else there would be better premium options like the high-end Purolator or Bosch filters. Those are great.
Other than avoiding a filter that disintegrates too fast, isn't the only measurement that matters is how well the dang thing filters dirty oil and for how long? Aren't most of the measurements outside of particle analysis just red herrings?
For most NSX (or insert other exotic/sports/supercar here) owners I doubt the change interval ever goes much past 3-5k miles. So for those applications "how long" is less important. The key points then are the ability to filter dirty oil *while providing as little restriction as possible to the flow of oil*. The former, I didn't measure because I don't have the equipment/expertise. The latter is definitely (at least in-part) a function of surface area.
@@LapoftheWorld I think you're making a few assumptions. Certainly, filter area can be a proxy for flow rate but without actually measuring the flow through the media, how does one know if, in fact, there is less back pressure? The notion that more area means more flow is only accurate if the filter media is identical between filters which it may or may not be. Also, is there any engineering that suggests the ideal strength of the relief value? I'm with you that, intuitively, allowing dirt oil to recirculate is a bad thing but so is forcing oil through a clogged filter. Human intuition is built on layers of human biases so I rarely trust it without some science to back it up. ;-)
@@mhawke I'm not an engineer, but I was raised by one and I'm related to a few, lol. Definitely making some assumptions, which is why I didn't pick any "winners" or "losers" here but more present some data and stated a few of my admitted biases. My biggest question is probably around the relief valve resistance because I don't, for instance, know how much pressure would normally be required to force oil through any given filter media. If the BPV is opening at or below that pressure, then it's not really working as intended. I know at least a few racers who on-purpose run filters with no relief valve (they change the filter every race, so they'll never get clogged, but they don't want them running in constant bypass because of the very high RPM range they see).
Richard - remember, Honda specified conventional motor oil with a 6 month/7,500 mile change interval on the NSX...and, per the 1997-2005 Factory Service Manual, the oil filter change is every other oil change (12 months/15,000 miles)...so I think the new Mahle made Honda filter is probably overkill for most NSXs...why? First, I don't know anybody who doesn't change the filter every oil change. Next, Oil technology has greatly improved since the original "tall boy" was spec'd out by Honda to filter late 80s oils (and associated quality). Additionally, most people are running synthetic oil which is way better than the oil the engine was designed for. This means less wear...which means less "load" on the filter. Finally, no oil filter is designed to trap all the debris following a catastrophic failure and the driver can "keep on going"...it is designed to capture minute wear products...and for most NSX engines, the vast majority of wear happened 17-32 years ago when the engine and all the metal parts were brand new and were starting to "wear in"
For me, the ease of getting the current Honda filter - coupled with doing oil changes at about 1/2 the mileage intervals of what Honda had spec'd out for the original "tall boy" makes this a fairly easy choice...especially given how much filter media really is packed into one of the new Honda "shorties"
So main thing is stick w honda filters?
I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above, thanks Steven. Honda has some really smart engine engineers, and if they spec the new filter as a replacement, I would go along with them.
@@dabuzz6611 I sort-of agree, but I am also fully aware that the engineers aren't the ones always in charge of procurement and manufacturer specification. Lots of Fram-built "Honda" factory filters out there...
@@joebezslu Yeah, these two Mahle oil filters -- the light blue S2000 one (15400-PCX-306) & the light blue NSX one (15400-PL2-306) -- are made specifically by Honda (or at Honda's request) for these two specific vehicles. I'm sure they work just fine for these vehicles, else Honda wouldn't go to the trouble of having these two unique oil filters made!
@@LapoftheWorld "Lots of Fram-built "Honda" factory filters out there..." That's true, but the light blue (i.e., made by Mahle Thailand) version of the standard Honda oil filter is the 15400-RAF-T01 (the one that's equivalent to the 15400-PLM-A02). But then Honda are specifically going to the trouble on top of that of having an S2000-specific and an NSX-specific oil filters made specifically for these two cars, so why wouldn't Honda make sure the specs are right for those cars?
I appreciate the S2000 and NSX filters might be the same, apart from the bypass pressure, to cut costs and the capacity of the NSX filter may therefore be less than the older NSX filter though.🤔
I agree that it is *absolutely* a shame that the quality of the OEM Honda filter seems to have gone backwards compared to the overbuilt older Toyo Roki 😕, but the Honda filter does still seem to still be of decent quality compared to the others like the Mann/Bosch (Purolator). (It's interesting that the actual Purolator branded filter is totally different though, mind you!)