London Review - with Tom Vasel
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Tom Vasel takes a look at the 2nd edition of Martin Wallace's London!
00:00 - Introduction
01:20 - Game overview
08:17 - Final thoughts
BGG link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2...
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I'll offer a different opinion on this one, along with some context. So maybe anybody interested in reading another view can decide whether they think they'll agree more with me or with Tom Vasel here.
Firstly, I'm not a huge Martin Wallace fan, especially not of his larger Euro-style games; so I wasn't expecting too much from this. I actually kinda loved it. There's a constant trade-off between building your stuff and gaining "poverty" and the ways you can alleviate that. There are basically three things that you have to do - gain money, gain victory points, and stop poverty - and the strategies of this game come into exactly how you do those three things. The game offers a LOT of variety in terms of strategies that you can use.
To address Tom's point of having to rebuild your city each time you "run" it... I actually really like this. It's effectively a natural "catch up" mechanism. You can't build an engine at the start of this game and expect to have it carry you until the very end (this is a problem with a lot of these types of games). You have to constantly adapt to new cards that have appeared, new districts that you can get. It really forces you to keep thinking and adapting. I really like this aspect of it.
It also "flows" really well. We had a four-player game and there was very little "downtime". All of the game's mechanisms seem well-designed, and none of them are over-complicated. I like that you can draw cards that other people have discarded, or you can take random cards from the deck, in any proportion that you want. I like that the "bonus" cards work in different ways and have different benefits. I like that there are different "districts" with their own specific powers (although Westminster, which allows you to choose to draw zero, one or two cards, seems really powerful - so much so that I just kept that one district the entire game, and ended up winning.) I like that "overdrawing" can be a legitimate strategy for getting rid of those annoying paupers who take up hand space. If I have a criticism, I think maybe the pitfalls of getting a "loan" are too severe? You lose a huge chunk of points (seven points for a single ten-pound loan, which is a lot given that the highest score in the game I played of this was 46 and two players had multiple loans!)
This is definitely a "thinky" game, but it has the best theming of any of Wallace's heavier "Euro"-style games that I've played. It's way more than just a game of "place cubes, earn points" which I generally find unfulfilling. As a comparison, "Imhotep" - which I think is an excellent game in terms of art and mechanical design overall - I found to be not for me at all, because of its threadbare theming and complete reliance on "place cubes, earn points" mechanics that have never particularly interested me. I like a game which offers more of a depth of strategy than that, and also a more meaty theme. "London" satisfies both of those requirements completely for me. Would strongly recommend it for anybody interested in a Euro-style game with an appealing theme and an emphasis on multiple strategies.
H0lyMoley Really enjoyed your analysis of the game. I just played it today for the first time and I liked it a lot. Awesome design. Felt a tad long though.
He's right when he says London is a gorgeous game. The quality of the stock is amazing and the box itself very handsome. Even my eleven year old son was impressed.
One of my favorite Wallace games! Hopefully it will be easier to buy!
The original version is one of my favorite games, so despite Tom's lukewarm feelings I am SUPER excited for this!
Same here. I hunted down the first edition of the game and it's still in my top 10 of all time. I pre-ordered my copy of this second edition. I think I will miss the map, but I have to play it to know for sure.
We need to have words about your headgear Tom...
Thank goodness Tom corrected himself at 5:08. It was really annoying me.
In many ways Poverty works like Corruption in Lords of Waterdeep. As long as every one else has more you’re probably safe. You will lose points but they will lose more.
The first edition is one of my favourite games.
This game seems eerily similar to Discworld Ankh Morpork, again by Martin Wallace - the boroughs, the card play, corruption...
I appreciate Tom’s point of view but he’s wrong about this game. It’s really good. He also didn’t like Notre Dame because of the rat/plague track.
Poverty is graded on a curve... Love it XD
I love London
Every time you mentioned "corruption", I was thinking of the borough of Kensington & Chelsea and the Grenfell Tower fire.
Still so terrible and a shocking to see the gutted remains!
Heard this is a must for anyone that enjoys Race for the Galaxy (which I’ve probably played hundreds of times - many on the app) but man, $50? Seems a bit pricey. Should I ever find it for about $30 I’ll pick it up.
The price fits with the poverty theme 😂
Interesting. What other games allow you to run persistent machines?
For the most part the "for the Galaxy" games, Carl Chudyk's games and Steampunk Rally. The potential problem with those is that you basically do the same thing over and over again from a certain point onward.
Dominare has a fun engine building aspect
51st State and Imperial Settlers
Lorenzo il Magnifico for example ;).
Steam Works. You build machines that anyone can use.
I listened to this review while working. Tom said, "some burrough cards are placed..." I heard, "some burro cards are placed..." Wait, what??? Rewind, replay, "Oh, THOSE burroughs!"
Robert Kirby No, you heard it right the first time. It's a little known fact that Londoners live in burrows - so much cheaper than high rises.
Can Zee review this game too, please?
I believe the game lasts more than 15 minutes so I don't think Zee would be into it lol.
I'm not so sure about this. Zee might like it or hate it. I think the theme might put him off. "Poverty" and "Loans" might give him associations with "work", like it does for Tom. But on the other hand, it is not a long game at all.
Thanks Tom! Was sitting on the fence with this game but you've just convinced me to try it before I buy it.
That's funny. I cringed when Tom was going over discarding paupers when you played the prison and then he brings it up in his review.
Nice hat.
poverty is like feeding youŕe people in agricola, don understand you don like it. I don like agricola, but I like this one.
Westminster reduces your corruption? That seems wrong... 😄
Cthulwho? I think it's poverty though, not corruption:)
Rik77 It is indeed, although the idea that Westminster is actively trying to reduce poverty seems equally skewed. 😁
Cthulwho? Haha yes true!
I agree, considering the current administration but thats another story...
There’s a tipping point between reviewing the game objectively and reviewing it based on whether or not you like it. Other people may not like the same games, so to give a bad review not for any real design flaw but for taste seems a tad unfair.
Is that a female hat? :)
Looks like the graphic design took a back seat to the artwork on those cards as the text looks very small. I don't like games that do that as my eyes are not as good as they used to be and squinting to read the text just slows down the game for me. Plus this game seems more like work than fun to me too.
Without poverty it will essentially be a solo game...
London is a great family boardgame. Tom Vessel did a piss poor job on his presentation of this game. He did not even call the name of the pieces correctly and did not seem to care. He is over critical of the game. It is ok to give an opinion of the game but he seemed to whine about it and whine about it and whine about it. There is a video of how to play this game by Rodney Smith and he did a much better job. Watch it played by Rodney Smith is a better video on this game.
I took your advice and just saw the Rodney Smith video. I'd agree Tom skipped some aspects of this edition. It makes it far more appealing to me now. Thx for the tip!
I don’t why he thinks that continues building of cards to run would be a good thing. It would be more things to keep track of and make the game bloated with things to remember. It’s a good thing most card’s get exhausted and the poverty punishment is politically interesting.