When I started this a year ago I read from some of your articles and that was my starting point, now I've successfully opened quite a few locks using these exact methods+ others, thank you for your input!
Dude, I didn’t realize ur skilz until I was looking for contact info. I VERY MUCH appreciate how you’ve helped me manipulate!!! Won’t wear you out with comments and hope you make more vids. SORRY abt blowing you up! Much respect, Don
Great video it's been too long! With how popular some of these locksmithing channels are yours could be huge you should do a bunch of reviews on locks. The only critique I would add and only because I want your channel to grow is maybe change the camera angle to a higher top down view for lock reviews and increase / soften the lighting. Great video and I love your channel!
Ok.. This is the last time I'll bother you. I got it open. :) You were right on with your drill hole coordinates.. I just didn't realize that I only needed to bend the cam a little bit.. I bent it so much that it popped the top pin's arm off of the cam (or maybe that arm was already popped off-- and that's why the safe was free); so the top pin was still locked and that's what was still holding it for me; ironically if it was standing upright, that top pin would have likely just fallen out and the door would have opened. :).. because there was nothing holding it in place. I cut a large hole in the bottom, there were a couple thin sheet shelves in the way/ I popped the rivets fairly easily and laid them down. I had my 9yr old son crawl inside and he pulled all the screws on both inside panels, with a drill.. I could only halfway crawl into the hole.. but it was enough to reach the mechanisms and unlatch everything. We learned a little/ my son had a blast and he'll probably remember this in the future. It's all fixable from here.. good times. :) thanks again
I have a safe from what a lockSmith told me is from the late 20s or early 30s. This locksmith wanted $550.00 to drill and open 6 years ago, still sitting in garage unopened. I've since seen your videos and I will try manipulation to open. This is a unique safe it is a HHM safe with a square door on bottom with s&g 90# dial, it has a Gary round jewel door with a 90# Gary dial top left which is a tl-15 from what I can find and a filing cabinet drawer top right. Have you ever come across something like this and is manipulative.
Yes it's possible it all depends on how good the contact points are. If you can find good contact points like in my video you have a chance of doing it
@L Hammer I have come across them but didn't manipulate it. As long as there's contacts points it's always possible but if the contact points are real soft or mushy feel that makes it lot harder to read.
I have an old Meilink safe with a Yale dial, I am going to attempt to manipulate it. In this video you choose 8 as your placement for your crows feet. How did you determine to use 8, and would I do the same?
First, that was awesome!! Second, what do you use for the amplifier mic? I have been looking for something to use for listening to padlocks, that would work for a pair of headphones?
Hey buddy thanks, you would want the EZ Amp part # LKMEZAMP from Lockmasters call 800 654 0637 price is $116.00 They have a even better one for twice price but you dont need that one. Its great for metal sounds
@@johnwickpick8621 I know what one you are referring to, I seen the expensive one too, I seen another brand also, but wasn't sure witch would be a good fit . Thank you so much for your insight, and information,👍👍👍 really enjoyed the video. Take care my friend 👋😁
@@johnwickpick8621 I have an Amsec gun safe with an S&G 6730 and even though I do have the combination it still will not open. One of those things where it worked fine until today and then my combination will no longer work. I assume it drifted but even after trying some nearby combinations, I have been unable to get it to open.
@@MrGrigs681 heres something to try dial the combination then come back right and stop around 5. Now hit next to dial with a rubber hammer or mallet several times tbis might jiggle it in. Now try turning to right to open
@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you for the response. I tried that along with every other tip I could find online but with no success. I am worried now that the lever arm spring may have broken. My lock is positioned such that the lever arm is beside the wheel instead of being above it so gravity will work against me instead of being in my favor if the lever spring is broken. I have spent hours trying close-by combinations and it still will not open. I have called a locksmith but I live in a rural area so getting somebody to come out is no easy task. If I can get someone to come out I will let you know what the issue was. If not, then I guess I will be testing out my angle grinder.
@@MrGrigs681 Its easy to tell if the lever spring is broken because there wont be any contact points felt between 95 and 10 If you hear the click click sound then its not the spring. And that is rare to happen anyway. If you have the combo dial it in and hit the door with rubber mallet. Dial must be between contact points for that to work. If you dont have combo probably needs to be drilled.
If you wouldn't have found a gate signature when going the other way around, would you have parked the wheels around 60 in the first direction (overall lowest point) and start graphing to find a shadowed gate or is there some shortcut to take if neither direction shows a gate when you rotate all the wheels together?
Yes your about right I would park wheels 1&2 on the overall lowest spot then run again. The objest is to park at low spots so gates show up. Even if you have to park wheel 3 and run 1&2. Dialing can get complicated unless you really know how to move wheels individually. Thats where a cut a way lock really helps so you can see how wheels move with certain turns. So basicly its practice I would spend a few hours every night practicing until dialing was without thought or counting turns.
@@johnwickpick8621 Thanks for quick response! I think I've finally understood the task correctly. One more question: do you ever graph the locks anymore or would look just for the new lowest point or gate signature even in this case? It seems that you could get the lock open without ever graphing it but maybe I'm missing some corner case here.
Thank you. This is great. I'm still a beginner so excuse me if this is a dumb question; But, why do you spin 2 and 3 to find the first number and not just 3? Is it so there is more of chance to finding a gate? Afterwards do you just spin 3 to check if the gate is on that wheel or wheel number 2? Again thank you for posting these videos!
Basicly yes more chances for a gate. And because if ya park 1 and 2 and just run 3 then any high spot on wheels 1 and 2 will hide the gate on 3. Sometimes you can find a gate only on 3 if you run it by itself but less likely to. Second question is after gate is found I run wheel 3 by itself through the gate area then I run 2 by itself and one of them usually indicates a reading. Now you can run all 3 wheels to start but its harder to determine which wheel the gate is on. Remember if you find a gate and dont pu
@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you for the reply. And if possible could you repost it? The end of the comment seems to be cut off and I'm very interested in your tips. I hope that this "series" continues. It is hard to find indepth information on youtube by people with practical experience. Thanks.
@@nemocheerio oh yes I was going to say that running 3 wheels will work to but it takes longer to determine which wheel its on. Now the majority of the time wheel 3 indicates first but if you think like that it will throw you off. Never assume or guess thats a big mistake in manipulation. For example if you assume the gate is on wheel 3 and its not wheel 3 then any time you spend after that is a waste of time because your then parking wheels in wrong places. So basicly thats why I start with running wheel 2 and 3.
How often do you run across a loose spline key in manipulation? -- I did one, had to go old school, and "throw away" the amp because of the difficulty in getting good consistent contact readings with the "double click" sounds.
Nice video and fast dialing! Interesting how the awl didn't give a gate. Was that because of 2.5 increments you think? Obvious gate at 80 indeed. I just manipulated once so it's awesome to see a pro at work like this👍I should do another run the coming days... Thanks for sharing
Thanks for replying. When you did a round with all wheels left, you didn't see a clear gate signature around 80. With all wheels right, you did. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my understanding is correct, that theoretically shouldn't happen if the gates are slightly bigger than 2.5 increments. My question was: do you think that was caused by the 2.5 increments (the gate falling just between two of your readings by chance) and you probably would have seen a gate with e.g. increments of 2 or is there a different reason? I hope I could make my question more clear.
@@EdocDab The reason why a gate can be found one way and not the other is the wheel profile changes. In other words the reason a gate is not found is because a high spot on wheels and not letting the fence enter a gate thus no reading. When the direction changes the wheels are not exactly the same place so the high spot is now removed. That is why you cant dial open a safe in both directions with the same numbers. For example if you dial 20 30 40 Left Right Left, it wont work if you dial Right Left Right. So that proves the wheels line up differently and can remove any high spot. Running 2.5 or 2 makes no difference if the fence cant enter a gate from high wheels. Thanks
Yes, with your extensive explanation I understood it clearly. Thanks a lot for that and I'll keep the lesson it in mind. Again, I really enjoyed to watch you work the dial in this video and thanks for answering my question!
Once a number is found its easier to determine which one it is. Running all three wheels takes longer to find the right wheel once a number is found. Once I find a number on 2 or 3 I will only run that wheel alone a few numbers high and low of the number and see which wheel indicates better. If you park the wrong wheel you will be wasting anymore attempts. So that's why I run only 2 and 3 its a 50 50 chance of getting it right
One last update- I guess that "pop" in the handle did slip it past the lock, because when I would yank on the door, it was loose and seemingly wanting to open.. So I stood over it and pulled up hard and the doors opened a good 1/2" or more.. I could get pry bars under the edge of the door.. but there was still something snagging and holding it.. I forgot to mention that the second door's handle had already been removed or broken.. So I'm thinking that second door was hanging it up. So we were wrenching on the 'good handle" (on the right door-- by the lock).. and unfortunately now that handle also twisted off. I didn't realize that it was brass and made to brake away or I would have been a little easier.. Honestly I think the previous owner had already half way twisted it off because it was facing in a weird direction and not the same as what I see in pictures.. So I think I'm going to go ahead and cut a big crawl hole in it.. It will be fun, if nothing else. Thanks again.. Cheers
Just getting into manipulation. Got a safe given to me because they forgot the combination. How do you choose the place to put your indicator stickers? How do you find the contact?
You place one sticker on dial ring at 12 o'clock the other sticker right on a contact point. You feel for the contacts that are light usually around 95 and 5, somewhere around there. There will be two contacts you wanna use the right contact.
Yes tried that many times and most of the rime nothing indicates. So by moving two wheels chances are greater to finding something. Then if there is still nothing at least I can park wheel two on a low spot and just move wheel tbree which is fast to do.
@@johnwickpick8621 you heard of 'wagging the dog' if you have low to no signatures? I use the EZ 2 aid by Lockmasters and also want to try the Keedex laser.
No not this method that would be similar to the Halls safe manipulation. There are so many different sentry ssfes some have false gates and some dont. Newer sentrys are harder because of the false gates also some have two wheels and some have three wheels
Nice technique, but sort of an incomplete explanation. You checked wheels 2 and 3 with left rotation and found a gate centered on 80, but did not explain how you figured out if 80 is on wheel 2 or 3. You either did some kind of high-low test or just took a guess that it was on wheel 3 (which is often correct I suppose). From there you figured out wheel 2 but didn't explain how. You must have set wheel 3 to 80 and then checked wheel 2 for another gate. When you found it, you brute force opened the safe.
No I didn't guess 80 was on wheel three. I park wheels 1 and 2 and just run 3 near 80 to see a change. If there is no change I'll park wheel 1 and 3 and just run wheel 2 near 80 and look for change to narrow it down. Not sure what you mean by brute force safe open, once you find two numbers of a three number combination you just run the last wheel until it opens You don't manipulate the last number.
Thanks for the reply. Wish you would make more videos! I suppose parking 1 and 2 and checking 80 on 3 is correct. I would have done the same thing or done a high test, by setting wheel 1 outside the checkpoint area, setting wheel 2 on 90 then wheel 3 on 80 and check the checkpoint. Then do the same thing but with wheel 2 on 80 and wheel 3 on 90. That will tell you which wheel has the gate at 80. Running the last wheel is the same as brute force.@@johnwickpick8621
(thanks again for the help) -- Your plan didn't work out for me (so far).. I drilled the hole and I can see the lever moving the cam.. If I press up on the handle I can just see the end of the cam start to pass the hole.. and I can tell that there's another layer behind it, stopping it from bending; So I think it must be reinforced to stop this kind of intrusion. Instead of bending, the edge of the cam chipped a piece off about the size of the end of my punch-- so it basically cut it like a die. It might be a hardened cam-- seems how it chipped/ cut and didn't bend. But like I said, I can see another piece of metal right behind the cam-- quite close to it, like it's there to reinforce it from bending. Maybe it's just the inside cover plate, but IDK.. It doesn't want to bend at all. Are you sure I should pull "UP" on the handle and not down? If I pull up, I'm right at the end of the cam.. I can even wedge a smaller punch past it-- that's how far the cam passes the hole. I built houses and metal buildings for over a decade, so I know how to use a tape and drill a hole, etc.. I'm fairly certain I landed the hole in the right place. If you have any other tips for me, I'd really be grateful. Do you think it could be a little extra security safe maybe? Should I just beat on it more? lol. Like I said, it wants to break or chip before it bends. ?? I started with a 1/4 hole, but everything I had kept bending, so I went to a 3/8 and then 1/2 hole.. I really only punched through the hardened plate with the 3/8.. but it's 1/2 from the top and through the concrete; So I can see pretty well with the flashlight, even when there's a smaller punch in the hole. A couple larger punches we have are tapered and they wedge into the hole.. but the handle can't move at all when I wedge them in there-- so they are obviously deep enough. I'm not sure what to do yet. I'm probably going to walk away from it for another week or so and try again next week end. I'll try any tips you give or I think I'll just cut a hole in the bottom like my original plan, and crawl inside and peak at the dials. (if I have to). Any more help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
If the hinge is on the Right side then Yes handle moves UP. Some of them Mosler have a double cam for strength So Yes I think your not hitting it with a heavy enough sledge use at least a 3lb hammer. Make sure your pulling up on handle at same time.
@@johnwickpick8621 Well I guess maybe the hole is slightly in the wrong place.. Because when I pull up on the handle, I almost see the cam pass the hole.. So handle goes up-- which makes the cam go down; so my punch is only hitting the very top point of the cam (where the curved side meets the flat top edge of the cam). I feel like my hole may have wondered a bit maybe.. Because it's almost over 5" deep to reach the cam.. it's much deeper than I thought it would be... Another thing is-- like I was saying-- the large punches we have are tapered and really they are too big and are wedging into the hole, and everything else keeps bending.. So I'll probably have to go buy a hardened bolt that's the right length and size, or at least a straight punch (not tapered). I guess I can drill another hole right below it if I have to.. If the handle goes up any more, the cam will be passed the hole completely. We did get the handle to pop and move a bit-- but I don't think it went quite far enough, because the door still wouldn't open. Thanks again.. I'm going to keep beating on it. :) (I'm using a 5lb maul.. it's heavy and long handle.. the hammer isn't the issue.)
@@johnwickpick8621 One last update- I guess that "pop" in the handle did slip it past the lock, because when I would yank on the door, it was loose and seemingly wanting to open.. So I stood over it and pulled up hard and the doors opened a good 1/2" or more.. I could get pry bars under the edge of the door.. but there was still something snagging and holding it.. I forgot to mention that the second door's handle had already been removed or broken.. So I'm thinking that second door was hanging it up. So we were wrenching on the 'good handle" (on the right door-- by the lock) a little too hard.. and unfortunately now that handle also twisted off. I didn't realize that it was brass and made to brake away or I would have been a little easier.. Honestly I think the previous owner had already half way twisted it off because it was facing in a weird direction and not the same as what I see in pictures.. So I think I'm going to go ahead and cut a big crawl hole in it.. It will be fun, if nothing else. Thanks again.. Cheers
So what do you do when you can't find a contact point? I might have a group 1 lock I guess.. It doesn't even have the 2nd line (for when you change the code). It only has the one center mark and nothing else. I don't know how to use any of these techniques without finding a contact point.
Is the safe an old antique it might use handle pressure to create contact points. Not all locks have a spring assist lever that make contacts. Group 1 locks have a second line for changing. I know Diebold locks have only top index and need a listening device to find contacts. Sounds like one you may have to drill open.
@ckpick8621 It says Mosler on the front panel.. It says nothing on the dial itself. I'm pretty sure Diebold bought Mosler.. so maybe it is the lock you're saying-- that needs a listening device. One thing is, we have it laid on it's back at the moment (on my trailer). So the doors are facing up to the sky.. That would definitely effect the lever if it's not spring assisted. The dial is not exactly free spinning either.. It's not bad, but you can feel slight resistance through around half the dial.. It's just kinda firm in general. It's very smooth, but it feels like it's covered in old grease.. It's like trying to spin a knife in peanut butter. It spins-- there's just a steady resistance there..... It's quite big with two doors. about 5ft wide and 4ft tall with the wheels, maybe 2.5ft deep. Numbers say.. serial no: 18868-14 model no: 11 I can't find much info on it. From lists I've seen people post, this might be a 1966.. not sure. It's very institutional looking.. Like something you would see in a hospital or government building or something. Very square and basic. It's obviously lined with concrete and is well over 1000 lbs. I don't know exactly where to drill.. If you know how to find it, please do tell. Otherwise, I was thinking about cutting/ busting a hole in the bottom, big enough to crawl into.. Then I can pull the back of the lock and easily decipher the combo from looking at the wheels. I'd like to avoid that if it's possible; it wouldn't be too hard to repair.. I have a welder and know how to pour concrete, etc.
@calholli You have a Mosler double door fire safe. Them locks hardly give anything and with a tight dial forgot it. I can tell you how to drill it on the right side door. The safe will have hardened plate not thick but you need high rpm and a carbide bit. Measure carefully from dial center 2-3/4" Left of dial center and 3/4" UP. Drill straight a 1/4" hole is really all ya need. You will drill outer skin then fire insulation then hardplate then inner skin then breakthrough. When you breakthrough you will hit the tip of the handle cam you can tell by wiggling handle and see it or feel it with a ice pick. (Don't drill through this) Now hold UP on handle insert some type of punch and give it some hits. The cam will move past the lock and open. You may need a few 6" bits to finish door is kinda thick. Carbide bit can be 4" With safe on back it helps because you can you use your body weight to drill the hardened plate!
Extra note: Use a mini sledge when you hit punch the handle cam is fairly thick to bend out of way. My measurements are from dial center so 2-3/4" Left and 3/4" UP from dial center.
@ckpick8621 Awesome... I appreciate it. I will keep that in mind as a last resort. For now, I have some cheap piezoelectric sensors and a good oscilloscope; I'm going to see if I can get better readings with it. I think I found the contact points-- If I keep spinning in the same direction (after picking up all the wheels) -- I can feel it and hear it make contact in the same spot every time around... I just can't hear it or feel it when I creep up to it slowly. So I'm going to play around with it a bit more and test these sensors for fun.. see if I can crack the dial like youtube says I can. :) .. The bad thing about drilling is that I have to drill through that little decretive aluminum front cover, and there's not really a good way to cover that up afterwords. If I cut through the bottom.. I can always weld over it and then pour new concrete in the bottom, etc.. Place another plate inside the bottom, or whatever; and the rest of the safe would look stock and undrilled. IDK, I'm still deciding.. I appreciate your help I guess I could drill through the outer aluminum cover with like a 1" hole saw (and drill the rest like normal, with 1/4 carbide bit).. And once I get it open, I can put a hardened bolt into the hole and weld it to the front plate -- since I have clearance.. and then slip a big washer over the bolt head, covering the hole saw hole in the outer aluminum cover and welding it to the bolt head... Might still look decent. I guess I could just remove the little aluminum cover completely How do you normally patch holes after drilling a safe? Or do you just consider it damaged goods and unusable now? I'd like to repair it-- one way or another. Either way, it's a fun project. I got the safe for free and they said it hasn't been opened since the 60's.. So there might even be something in it.. But I just want to get it working again and keep it looking decent... I'll let you know how it turns out. ps. I have two other safes that I deciphered the code from-- but both of them were already open; so I just had to pull the lock and watch the wheels as I turn the dial. So a part of me really wants to get this just by spinning the dials. lol. we'll see; like you said- the lock isn't giving me much indication.
Hello John, I am Robert. I have a friend who's given me a large Gary safe. When his business bought a building the safe was in there. I have an amp with piezo discs. Have not had much luck. I was wondering where you can buy safe crows feet indicators? I have searched the internet with no luck. I am in the Richmond VA area. If you are close I would be interested in using your services. All the safe company's around me will on punch the safe. I am trying to avoid that. I enjoy your videos as well. Thank you Robert
There is a locksmith store in Kentucky called Lockmasters to get indicators. There number is 800 654 0636 and the part number to order is SPO1003Y2 Im in Niagara Falls area find a safe guy who will "scope the change key hole" not punch - thanks
![[1337] My New & Improved Robotic Safe-Cracker…](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vkk-2QEUvuk/mqdefault.jpg)
When I started this a year ago I read from some of your articles and that was my starting point, now I've successfully opened quite a few locks using these exact methods+ others, thank you for your input!
Thats great it takes work and patience to get good at lock opening not many have that determination.
Dude, I didn’t realize ur skilz until I was looking for contact info.
I VERY MUCH appreciate how you’ve helped me manipulate!!!
Won’t wear you out with comments and hope you make more vids.
SORRY abt blowing you up! Much respect, Don
I am glad to see more dial manipulation videos. We've missed ya Mark!
It's always a pleasure to see a professional like you. You are my inspiration
Excellent video and very educational. Great job and thank you!
Great video it's been too long! With how popular some of these locksmithing channels are yours could be huge you should do a bunch of reviews on locks. The only critique I would add and only because I want your channel to grow is maybe change the camera angle to a higher top down view for lock reviews and increase / soften the lighting. Great video and I love your channel!
Thanks your suggestions are noted
Welcome back! Missed your content keep up the awesome work!
Thank you very much
Love watching you work
Thanks buddy
Ok.. This is the last time I'll bother you. I got it open. :)
You were right on with your drill hole coordinates.. I just didn't realize that I only needed to bend the cam a little bit.. I bent it so much that it popped the top pin's arm off of the cam (or maybe that arm was already popped off-- and that's why the safe was free); so the top pin was still locked and that's what was still holding it for me; ironically if it was standing upright, that top pin would have likely just fallen out and the door would have opened. :).. because there was nothing holding it in place. I cut a large hole in the bottom, there were a couple thin sheet shelves in the way/ I popped the rivets fairly easily and laid them down. I had my 9yr old son crawl inside and he pulled all the screws on both inside panels, with a drill.. I could only halfway crawl into the hole.. but it was enough to reach the mechanisms and unlatch everything. We learned a little/ my son had a blast and he'll probably remember this in the future. It's all fixable from here.. good times. :) thanks again
I have a safe from what a lockSmith told me is from the late 20s or early 30s. This locksmith wanted $550.00 to drill and open 6 years ago, still sitting in garage unopened. I've since seen your videos and I will try manipulation to open. This is a unique safe it is a HHM safe with a square door on bottom with s&g 90# dial, it has a Gary round jewel door with a 90# Gary dial top left which is a tl-15 from what I can find and a filing cabinet drawer top right. Have you ever come across something like this and is manipulative.
Yes it's possible it all depends on how good the contact points are.
If you can find good contact points like in my video you have a chance of doing it
I will keep trying. Have you ever come across this type of safe or ever heard of any like it? Thanks
@L Hammer I have come across them but didn't manipulate it.
As long as there's contacts points it's always possible but if the contact points are real soft or mushy feel that makes it lot harder to read.
Awesome video! Thanks a lot for sharing 👏👏🙌🙌
I have an old Meilink safe with a Yale dial, I am going to attempt to manipulate it. In this video you choose 8 as your placement for your crows feet. How did you determine to use 8, and would I do the same?
First, that was awesome!! Second, what do you use for the amplifier mic? I have been looking for something to use for listening to padlocks, that would work for a pair of headphones?
Hey buddy thanks, you would want the
EZ Amp part # LKMEZAMP from Lockmasters call 800 654 0637 price
is $116.00
They have a even better one for twice price but you dont need that one.
Its great for metal sounds
@@johnwickpick8621 I know what one you are referring to, I seen the expensive one too, I seen another brand also, but wasn't sure witch would be a good fit . Thank you so much for your insight, and information,👍👍👍 really enjoyed the video. Take care my friend 👋😁
Thanks for the sequence!
Awesome video I’ve been trying to open a S&G gun safe thanks for showing the dial up close awesome video!!!
Whats the issue with gun safe no combination?
@@johnwickpick8621 I have an Amsec gun safe with an S&G 6730 and even though I do have the combination it still will not open. One of those things where it worked fine until today and then my combination will no longer work. I assume it drifted but even after trying some nearby combinations, I have been unable to get it to open.
@@MrGrigs681 heres something to try dial the combination then come back right and stop around 5.
Now hit next to dial with a rubber hammer or mallet several times tbis might jiggle it in.
Now try turning to right to open
@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you for the response. I tried that along with every other tip I could find online but with no success. I am worried now that the lever arm spring may have broken. My lock is positioned such that the lever arm is beside the wheel instead of being above it so gravity will work against me instead of being in my favor if the lever spring is broken. I have spent hours trying close-by combinations and it still will not open. I have called a locksmith but I live in a rural area so getting somebody to come out is no easy task. If I can get someone to come out I will let you know what the issue was. If not, then I guess I will be testing out my angle grinder.
@@MrGrigs681 Its easy to tell if the lever spring is broken because there wont be any contact points felt between 95 and 10
If you hear the click click sound then its not the spring.
And that is rare to happen anyway.
If you have the combo dial it in and hit the door with rubber mallet.
Dial must be between contact points for that to work.
If you dont have combo probably needs to be drilled.
If you wouldn't have found a gate signature when going the other way around, would you have parked the wheels around 60 in the first direction (overall lowest point) and start graphing to find a shadowed gate or is there some shortcut to take if neither direction shows a gate when you rotate all the wheels together?
Yes your about right I would park wheels 1&2 on the overall lowest spot then run again. The objest is to park at low spots so gates show up.
Even if you have to park wheel 3 and run 1&2. Dialing can get complicated unless you really know how to move wheels individually. Thats where a cut a way lock really helps so you can see how wheels move with certain turns.
So basicly its practice I would spend a few hours every night practicing until dialing was without thought or counting turns.
@@johnwickpick8621 Thanks for quick response! I think I've finally understood the task correctly. One more question: do you ever graph the locks anymore or would look just for the new lowest point or gate signature even in this case? It seems that you could get the lock open without ever graphing it but maybe I'm missing some corner case here.
Thank you. This is great. I'm still a beginner so excuse me if this is a dumb question; But, why do you spin 2 and 3 to find the first number and not just 3? Is it so there is more of chance to finding a gate? Afterwards do you just spin 3 to check if the gate is on that wheel or wheel number 2? Again thank you for posting these videos!
Basicly yes more chances for a gate.
And because if ya park 1 and 2 and just run 3 then any high spot on wheels 1 and 2 will hide the gate on 3.
Sometimes you can find a gate only on 3 if you run it by itself but less likely to.
Second question is after gate is found I run wheel 3 by itself through the gate area then I run 2 by itself and one of them usually indicates a reading.
Now you can run all 3 wheels to start but its harder to determine which wheel the gate is on. Remember if you find a gate and dont pu
@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you for the reply. And if possible could you repost it? The end of the comment seems to be cut off and I'm very interested in your tips. I hope that this "series" continues. It is hard to find indepth information on youtube by people with practical experience. Thanks.
@@nemocheerio oh yes I was going to say that running 3 wheels will work to but it takes longer to determine which wheel its on. Now the majority of the time wheel 3 indicates first but if you think like that it will throw you off. Never assume or guess thats a big mistake in manipulation. For example if you assume the gate is on wheel 3 and its not wheel 3 then any time you spend after that is a waste of time because your then parking wheels in wrong places. So basicly thats why I start with running wheel 2 and 3.
@@johnwickpick8621 Great advice. Thank you.
How often do you run across a loose spline key in manipulation? -- I did one, had to go old school, and "throw away" the amp because of the difficulty in getting good consistent contact readings with the "double click" sounds.
I dont use the amp often only on real soft contact points. Havent ran across loose spline key manipulating only in service on combo changes.
Nice video and fast dialing! Interesting how the awl didn't give a gate. Was that because of 2.5 increments you think? Obvious gate at 80 indeed. I just manipulated once so it's awesome to see a pro at work like this👍I should do another run the coming days... Thanks for sharing
I didnt get what you mean by
The awl didnt give a gate what was that again...
Thanks for replying.
When you did a round with all wheels left, you didn't see a clear gate signature around 80. With all wheels right, you did. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my understanding is correct, that theoretically shouldn't happen if the gates are slightly bigger than 2.5 increments.
My question was: do you think that was caused by the 2.5 increments (the gate falling just between two of your readings by chance) and you probably would have seen a gate with e.g. increments of 2 or is there a different reason?
I hope I could make my question more clear.
@@EdocDab The reason why a gate can be found one way and not the other is the wheel profile changes. In other words the reason a gate is not found is because a high spot on wheels and not letting the fence enter a gate thus no reading.
When the direction changes the wheels are not exactly the same place so the high spot is now removed.
That is why you cant dial open a safe in both directions with the same numbers.
For example if you dial 20 30 40 Left Right Left, it wont work if you dial Right Left Right. So that proves the wheels line up differently and can remove any high spot. Running 2.5 or 2 makes no difference if the fence cant enter a gate from high wheels.
Thanks
Yes, with your extensive explanation I understood it clearly. Thanks a lot for that and I'll keep the lesson it in mind. Again, I really enjoyed to watch you work the dial in this video and thanks for answering my question!
Why do you run 2+3 together? For speed? How do you know which wheel you're seeing the profile of?
Once a number is found its easier to determine which one it is. Running all three wheels takes longer to find the right wheel once a number is found.
Once I find a number on 2 or 3 I will only run that wheel alone a few numbers high and low of the number and see which wheel indicates better.
If you park the wrong wheel you will be wasting anymore attempts.
So that's why I run only 2 and 3 its a 50 50 chance of getting it right
One last update- I guess that "pop" in the handle did slip it past the lock, because when I would yank on the door, it was loose and seemingly wanting to open.. So I stood over it and pulled up hard and the doors opened a good 1/2" or more.. I could get pry bars under the edge of the door.. but there was still something snagging and holding it..
I forgot to mention that the second door's handle had already been removed or broken.. So I'm thinking that second door was hanging it up. So we were wrenching on the 'good handle" (on the right door-- by the lock).. and unfortunately now that handle also twisted off. I didn't realize that it was brass and made to brake away or I would have been a little easier.. Honestly I think the previous owner had already half way twisted it off because it was facing in a weird direction and not the same as what I see in pictures.. So I think I'm going to go ahead and cut a big crawl hole in it.. It will be fun, if nothing else. Thanks again.. Cheers
Just getting into manipulation. Got a safe given to me because they forgot the combination. How do you choose the place to put your indicator stickers? How do you find the contact?
You place one sticker on dial ring at 12 o'clock the other sticker right on a contact point.
You feel for the contacts that are light usually around 95 and 5, somewhere around there.
There will be two contacts you wanna use the right contact.
@@johnwickpick8621 thank you
Crow's Feet: Lockmaster in Kentucky sells them ONLY to licensed/ registered businesses. Is there an alternate source? Name of manufacturer?
Yeah before the stickers I would use masking tape with a sewing needle cut down as pointers worked good
OK, right now I'm using yellow electrical tape on both sides and draw a line between them with a black pen. Cheers.
I’ve been trying to open an antique safe made by Wehrle. I cannot find the contact points. Any tips? The dial says Yale on it.
Yale usually is gear driven with no contacts could try 50 25 50 but probably need to be drilled
@@johnwickpick8621 Ok thank you!
Good job and tutorial but why you don't use wheel Isolation, scanning wheel 3 only then wheel two with dialing 3 to the indicated gate?
Yes tried that many times and most of the rime nothing indicates. So by moving two wheels chances are greater to finding something. Then if there is still nothing at least I can park wheel two on a low spot and just move wheel tbree which is fast to do.
@@johnwickpick8621 you heard of 'wagging the dog' if you have low to no signatures? I use the EZ 2 aid by Lockmasters and also want to try the Keedex laser.
@@jeremysmiles5826 wagging the dog takes to long and is non consistent
@@johnwickpick8621 well, I only use it if I can't get any good indicators.
Can this technique be used on a sentry safe dial lock with the direct interacting handle?
No not this method that would be similar to the Halls safe manipulation.
There are so many different sentry ssfes some have false gates and some dont.
Newer sentrys are harder because of the false gates also some have two wheels and some have three wheels
Nice technique, but sort of an incomplete explanation. You checked wheels 2 and 3 with left rotation and found a gate centered on 80, but did not explain how you figured out if 80 is on wheel 2 or 3. You either did some kind of high-low test or just took a guess that it was on wheel 3 (which is often correct I suppose). From there you figured out wheel 2 but didn't explain how. You must have set wheel 3 to 80 and then checked wheel 2 for another gate. When you found it, you brute force opened the safe.
No I didn't guess 80 was on wheel three. I park wheels 1 and 2 and just run 3 near 80 to see a change.
If there is no change I'll park wheel 1 and 3 and just run wheel 2 near 80 and look for change to narrow it down.
Not sure what you mean by brute force safe open, once you find two numbers of a three number combination you just run the last wheel until it opens
You don't manipulate the last number.
Thanks for the reply. Wish you would make more videos! I suppose parking 1 and 2 and checking 80 on 3 is correct. I would have done the same thing or done a high test, by setting wheel 1 outside the checkpoint area, setting wheel 2 on 90 then wheel 3 on 80 and check the checkpoint. Then do the same thing but with wheel 2 on 80 and wheel 3 on 90. That will tell you which wheel has the gate at 80. Running the last wheel is the same as brute force.@@johnwickpick8621
(thanks again for the help) -- Your plan didn't work out for me (so far).. I drilled the hole and I can see the lever moving the cam.. If I press up on the handle I can just see the end of the cam start to pass the hole.. and I can tell that there's another layer behind it, stopping it from bending; So I think it must be reinforced to stop this kind of intrusion. Instead of bending, the edge of the cam chipped a piece off about the size of the end of my punch-- so it basically cut it like a die. It might be a hardened cam-- seems how it chipped/ cut and didn't bend. But like I said, I can see another piece of metal right behind the cam-- quite close to it, like it's there to reinforce it from bending. Maybe it's just the inside cover plate, but IDK.. It doesn't want to bend at all. Are you sure I should pull "UP" on the handle and not down? If I pull up, I'm right at the end of the cam.. I can even wedge a smaller punch past it-- that's how far the cam passes the hole. I built houses and metal buildings for over a decade, so I know how to use a tape and drill a hole, etc.. I'm fairly certain I landed the hole in the right place. If you have any other tips for me, I'd really be grateful. Do you think it could be a little extra security safe maybe? Should I just beat on it more? lol. Like I said, it wants to break or chip before it bends. ??
I started with a 1/4 hole, but everything I had kept bending, so I went to a 3/8 and then 1/2 hole.. I really only punched through the hardened plate with the 3/8.. but it's 1/2 from the top and through the concrete; So I can see pretty well with the flashlight, even when there's a smaller punch in the hole. A couple larger punches we have are tapered and they wedge into the hole.. but the handle can't move at all when I wedge them in there-- so they are obviously deep enough. I'm not sure what to do yet.
I'm probably going to walk away from it for another week or so and try again next week end. I'll try any tips you give or I think I'll just cut a hole in the bottom like my original plan, and crawl inside and peak at the dials. (if I have to). Any more help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
If the hinge is on the Right side then Yes handle moves UP.
Some of them Mosler have a double cam for strength
So Yes I think your not hitting it with a heavy enough sledge use at least a 3lb hammer.
Make sure your pulling up on handle at same time.
@@johnwickpick8621 Well I guess maybe the hole is slightly in the wrong place.. Because when I pull up on the handle, I almost see the cam pass the hole.. So handle goes up-- which makes the cam go down; so my punch is only hitting the very top point of the cam (where the curved side meets the flat top edge of the cam). I feel like my hole may have wondered a bit maybe.. Because it's almost over 5" deep to reach the cam.. it's much deeper than I thought it would be... Another thing is-- like I was saying-- the large punches we have are tapered and really they are too big and are wedging into the hole, and everything else keeps bending.. So I'll probably have to go buy a hardened bolt that's the right length and size, or at least a straight punch (not tapered). I guess I can drill another hole right below it if I have to.. If the handle goes up any more, the cam will be passed the hole completely. We did get the handle to pop and move a bit-- but I don't think it went quite far enough, because the door still wouldn't open. Thanks again.. I'm going to keep beating on it. :) (I'm using a 5lb maul.. it's heavy and long handle.. the hammer isn't the issue.)
@@johnwickpick8621 One last update- I guess that "pop" in the handle did slip it past the lock, because when I would yank on the door, it was loose and seemingly wanting to open.. So I stood over it and pulled up hard and the doors opened a good 1/2" or more.. I could get pry bars under the edge of the door.. but there was still something snagging and holding it..
I forgot to mention that the second door's handle had already been removed or broken.. So I'm thinking that second door was hanging it up. So we were wrenching on the 'good handle" (on the right door-- by the lock) a little too hard.. and unfortunately now that handle also twisted off. I didn't realize that it was brass and made to brake away or I would have been a little easier.. Honestly I think the previous owner had already half way twisted it off because it was facing in a weird direction and not the same as what I see in pictures.. So I think I'm going to go ahead and cut a big crawl hole in it.. It will be fun, if nothing else. Thanks again.. Cheers
So what do you do when you can't find a contact point? I might have a group 1 lock I guess.. It doesn't even have the 2nd line (for when you change the code). It only has the one center mark and nothing else. I don't know how to use any of these techniques without finding a contact point.
Is the safe an old antique it might use handle pressure to create contact points.
Not all locks have a spring assist lever that make contacts.
Group 1 locks have a second line for changing.
I know Diebold locks have only top index and need a listening device to find contacts.
Sounds like one you may have to drill open.
@ckpick8621 It says Mosler on the front panel.. It says nothing on the dial itself. I'm pretty sure Diebold bought Mosler.. so maybe it is the lock you're saying-- that needs a listening device. One thing is, we have it laid on it's back at the moment (on my trailer). So the doors are facing up to the sky.. That would definitely effect the lever if it's not spring assisted. The dial is not exactly free spinning either.. It's not bad, but you can feel slight resistance through around half the dial.. It's just kinda firm in general. It's very smooth, but it feels like it's covered in old grease.. It's like trying to spin a knife in peanut butter. It spins-- there's just a steady resistance there..... It's quite big with two doors. about 5ft wide and 4ft tall with the wheels, maybe 2.5ft deep.
Numbers say..
serial no: 18868-14
model no: 11
I can't find much info on it. From lists I've seen people post, this might be a 1966.. not sure. It's very institutional looking.. Like something you would see in a hospital or government building or something. Very square and basic. It's obviously lined with concrete and is well over 1000 lbs.
I don't know exactly where to drill.. If you know how to find it, please do tell.
Otherwise, I was thinking about cutting/ busting a hole in the bottom, big enough to crawl into.. Then I can pull the back of the lock and easily decipher the combo from looking at the wheels. I'd like to avoid that if it's possible; it wouldn't be too hard to repair.. I have a welder and know how to pour concrete, etc.
@calholli You have a Mosler double door fire safe.
Them locks hardly give anything and with a tight dial forgot it.
I can tell you how to drill it on the right side door.
The safe will have hardened plate not thick but you need high rpm and a carbide bit.
Measure carefully from dial center 2-3/4" Left of dial center and 3/4" UP.
Drill straight a 1/4" hole is really all ya need. You will drill outer skin then fire insulation then hardplate then inner skin then breakthrough.
When you breakthrough you will hit the tip of the handle cam you can tell by wiggling handle and see it or feel it with a ice pick. (Don't drill through this)
Now hold UP on handle insert some type of punch and give it some hits. The cam will move past the lock and open.
You may need a few 6" bits to finish door is kinda thick.
Carbide bit can be 4"
With safe on back it helps because you can you use your body weight to drill the hardened plate!
Extra note: Use a mini sledge when you hit punch the handle cam is fairly thick to bend out of way.
My measurements are from dial center so 2-3/4" Left and 3/4" UP from dial center.
@ckpick8621 Awesome... I appreciate it. I will keep that in mind as a last resort. For now, I have some cheap piezoelectric sensors and a good oscilloscope; I'm going to see if I can get better readings with it. I think I found the contact points-- If I keep spinning in the same direction (after picking up all the wheels) -- I can feel it and hear it make contact in the same spot every time around... I just can't hear it or feel it when I creep up to it slowly. So I'm going to play around with it a bit more and test these sensors for fun.. see if I can crack the dial like youtube says I can. :) .. The bad thing about drilling is that I have to drill through that little decretive aluminum front cover, and there's not really a good way to cover that up afterwords. If I cut through the bottom.. I can always weld over it and then pour new concrete in the bottom, etc.. Place another plate inside the bottom, or whatever; and the rest of the safe would look stock and undrilled. IDK, I'm still deciding.. I appreciate your help
I guess I could drill through the outer aluminum cover with like a 1" hole saw (and drill the rest like normal, with 1/4 carbide bit).. And once I get it open, I can put a hardened bolt into the hole and weld it to the front plate -- since I have clearance.. and then slip a big washer over the bolt head, covering the hole saw hole in the outer aluminum cover and welding it to the bolt head... Might still look decent. I guess I could just remove the little aluminum cover completely
How do you normally patch holes after drilling a safe? Or do you just consider it damaged goods and unusable now? I'd like to repair it-- one way or another. Either way, it's a fun project. I got the safe for free and they said it hasn't been opened since the 60's.. So there might even be something in it.. But I just want to get it working again and keep it looking decent... I'll let you know how it turns out.
ps. I have two other safes that I deciphered the code from-- but both of them were already open; so I just had to pull the lock and watch the wheels as I turn the dial. So a part of me really wants to get this just by spinning the dials. lol. we'll see; like you said- the lock isn't giving me much indication.
Hello John, I am Robert. I have a friend who's given me a large Gary safe. When his business bought a building the safe was in there. I have an amp with piezo discs. Have not had much luck. I was wondering where you can buy safe crows feet indicators? I have searched the internet with no luck. I am in the Richmond VA area. If you are close I would be interested in using your services. All the safe company's around me will on punch the safe. I am trying to avoid that. I enjoy your videos as well.
Thank you
Robert
There is a locksmith store in Kentucky called Lockmasters to get indicators.
There number is 800 654 0636 and the part number to order is SPO1003Y2
Im in Niagara Falls area find a safe guy who will "scope the change key hole"
not punch - thanks
@@johnwickpick8621 Thank you and have a good Easter!
that was fantastic!!! thanks
Thanks Curly your one of my favorite actors...
How do you pick the number you start with?
I start right past the contact points but you can start anywhere you just have to go all around tbe dial from where you start
Where do you get your crows feet?
From Lockmasters out of Kentucky
Ph 800-654-0637
Call Liberty, they will give you the combination
I heard about that big story, everyone who gets a gun safe should change the combo to there own personal one.
Very thanks i from to Venezuela And i am Star in this job
Know anyone in Michigan to help with a 1888 victor?
Odd how they call a sheet rock box a safe....
Ya if they called it a sheet rock box nobody would buy it
@@johnwickpick8621 lol
Cool.
Thanks
I had to get a gun because I was home alone and I heard a noise
Lets go and earn some money on the late shift.😎🚔
My buddy bought a house with a safe in it. The sellers never knew the code from when they bought the house 3-4 decades ago.
You should get it open always possible something worth value is in it
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