Malgus has superior physical condition obviously, and saber skills. I'd say Force abilities too, as he can use lightning, force scream, Force Maelstrom, Oneness etc... Zannah's main usage is sorcery which Malgus is trained to resist.
Zannah has never seen lightning before. Also, a master of Djem So, like Darth Malgus, can break a master's Soresu. Zannah is not a Soresu master, and has little to no offense. The only edge I would give Zannah would be in weaponry.
Doubt it, sincerely. Malgus saber skills > Bane's. Malgus is way way faster, maybe to fast for Zannah to react, even. I still don't think sorcery will work on Malgus.
Zannah barely ever uses her lightsaber for offense, and when she does, it's clunky, unprecise, predictable and extremely weak. Malgus would hold off her attacks, and keep her in check whilst battering on her with Djem So, which would make her incapable of casting any illusions. I think it's pretty obvious that in a 1v1, Malgus would bulldose Zannah. Duels is his thing, not Zannah's.
I very much appreciate the recognition you gave to Bane here. I see way too many pushing Bane to the side and suggesting he is a weak duelist because he has not been shown in many duels, yet there’s no evidence to this. It is said in the books multiple times that he is an excellent duelist and I’m glad you recognized him for that
Zannah is far from a 'blunt instument'; even as a kid she attempted to trip Bane by applying force to his ankle, rather than a full- frontal attack. She is very crafty and resourseful.
Jorrit Kivinen Do you mean Jacen or Darth Caedus? Because I don’t think Jacen could beat Anakin. Darth Caedus would at least give Anakin a spot of trouble.
@@katkenobi6765 bruh. Anakin may be the superior swordsman, but honestly, Caedus is not far off. If anything, Caedus is actually the superior swordsman, given his ability to defend very well against Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Kyle Katarn, and Legends Luke Skywalker. All four are comfortably above Anakin as duelists, and above him as Force wielders. Anakin's greatest feats as a swordsman were pressuring Obi Wan, and defeating Dooku. The former duel ended in Kenobi winning due to his tactical superiority, and the latter, was basically a repetition of Qui Gon Jinn vs Maul. Jinn was the superior duelist, butMaul won through his superior physique. Likewise, Dooku was easily above Anakin in terms of raw skill and tactics, but lost becuase of Anakin's monstrous physical capabilities. Anakin would not enjoy the same advantages against Caedus. Caedus is comparable to Anakin in terms of physique, possibly even above him, is the superior swordsman, and a far more advanced Force wielder. Anakin's defeat of Ventress doesn't even count. She embarrassed him on multiple occasions, and in any case, is inferior to all those he faced in a duel, aside from Barriss Offee, perhaps. Caedus takes this any day of the week, and with ridiculous ease.
I do think that's an isolated incident. The 2 characters had a history of animosity against one another because of what happened on Naboo. By the time he was a master he wasn't usually vulnerable to such tactics as Dun Moch. In the ROTS novel, Dooku even comments on Kenobi's composure. He's actually not too bad at taunting and goading his own opponents in a manner similar to the Sith practice of Dun Moch.
As powerful Darth Revan and Malak is, Obi-Wan is probably one of the greatest Jedi of all time, and Anakin Skywalker who is well... the Chosen one. I definitely like this idea though, Darth Bane and Zannah are Master and Student, and more duels having Master-Student facing another pair would be great.
Could you do a video for Count Dooku versus Mace Windu? They were both leading forces during the Clone Wars, they're implied to have a history, and I would imagine it would be very close.
Dude, the Video that NEEDS to be done is Darth Cognus Vs. Mace Windu, one draws on their ability to dampen the other's force connection the other draws on the others negative emotions. ULTIMATE STAR WARS DUEL.
Great job. Jeez, what a project. Good for you. Very well researched and I agree with the outcome and much of the arguement. Zannah has alot of other dark spells she didnt use. That gets a lot of shout outs. I wonder at how Orbalisk armor would change this outcome... I do not think Windu's channeling of the dark side scales up evenly with scaling up of the dark side power... Dont think Windu would hold up. Zannah could hold obi wan 1v1. That's what her style is and she could throw some serious obstacles at him with her dark spells... which, once again, are said to outnumber the ones she ends up using.
Wow! I forgot why I subbed to you lol. I love this!! Obi-wan is my favorite Star Wars character and this is nice seeing how you compare and match up Star Wars characters against each other.
Traiken Tercept Galen and Vader would most likely win because of Vader’s experience, Galen’s skill, and the pairs familiarity with each others preferred fighting styles. Not to say this wouldn’t be a tough fight, Bane’s strength and speed are comparable to Vader’s however Galen is a slight bit faster, and Plagueis is skilled but ultimately under specialized with his lightsaber with his wepions training
I really enjoy these evaluations, and I would like them to continue, with one small addition: when its pairs fighting, you need to add an additional category to evaluate them by: teamwork. In this case, this is where Bane and Zannah truly shine; I see Bane as having the strategic know how to hold off both attackers, while Zannah uses her advanced techniques in stealth to manipulate the fight, and/or begin a ritual to eliminate both Jedi from the shadows. While Mace an Obi have fought together, they are ultimately two swordsman, and Mace does best in his form when fighting alone, where he can cut loose. Bane coils recognize the need for his apprentice to prepare for a sixth spell and additionally having fought Jedi in tandem before, he would have a better grasp of the initial leverage in a fight. By the time Mace's Shatterpoint ability reveals to him he intent, I feel it'd be too late. You have both lesser duelist a just waiting in the wings for the conclusion of Bane and Windu, and that too is an inaccuracy- perhaps it's just too many parts to calculate for?
@Banethesithari in the revenge of the sith novelization it states that "obi wan wasn't even fighting he was only a vessel emptied of self the force guided by his clarity of mind fought through him." He stonewalled general grievous up to 18 strikes per second.This is really impressive because Grievous was swinging four lightsabers and they were attacking obi from all angles. But the point were I can prove you wrong is when you said "he couldn't hold off grievous at 21 strikes per second and he had to switch to offense so he was overwhelmed." During the duel he didn't take the offensive really he just stopped stonewalling grievous and using ataru to reinforce is defense and make him harder to hit so he did effectively guard against 21 strikes per second and we see him in the movie slip and weave which ataru users do a lot.
Loved it! I fully agree with the outcome aswell. For some reason people always think that the Sith lords of old are way stronger than the Jedi's around the fall of the order. I don't know why. I think it's a very nice pairing you made on both sides. Zannah is strong in what she does but I don't think she's very well fitted to fight these two particulair jedi. They are so well developed and pretty much the best the order has to offer. Even if where Obi-wan vs Bane and Windu vs Zannah they would still probably win. Bane is a powerhouse but I don't see him overpowering Obi-wan faster then Windu would Zannah. Only sith that could overpower Obi-wan in a one on one duel must be Malgus. He is such a combative powerhouse only few others have come close or surpassed that. I don't think Bane is one of them. Nice pairing! love the time you took for it.
I agree. I just read the three novels on Darth Bane. What I learned about Bane was that he was nearly impossible to beat, especially with his armor. Darth Zannah had a defense that could be as strong as Kenobi but her Sith sorcery could cripple almost all of her opponents. If there were fears or regrets in your mind she would expose and exploit them and leave you tearing yourself apart. Truly underrated
+Qasim Hassan and what happened to Both of their trump cards???? Zannah would find a way to fire of a pure dark side tendril it would not be a fluke she used it against bane who is a offensive beast, and there is no proof that obiwan has no demons, as stated in previous videos buy these guys he has crappy force defense, her mind attacks would cripple or exhaust him. Zannah is a Sith Sorceress, aka Obiwan's worst nightmare, her dueling skills were for defense only not for her primary form of attacking. And bane could always soul invade, which is another argument as to if obiwan or mace could fight back his invading spirit. Zannah would trash obiwan. not in a saber duel, but with the force, her strongest feature and Obiwans greats weakness to defend against. they underestimated Zannah greatly and were way biased for the jedi. (well maybe she wouldn't trash him but you get my point, there is just no way it would be that easy for Obiwan, if he could even get to a stalemate)
+RyukLuvApples I would disagree with the fact that she can simply fire off a tredril at will, however I will say that obi wan has nothing that zannah cannot beat. Well obiwan does have more offensive ability in his light sabre skillset zannah is vastly stronger defensively surviving on the apprentice of the very best of a specialist. This fight is quite similar to that of grevious and obiwans duel in episode 3. Both of their opponents are extremely high classed duelists but weak in the force. By the logic zannah isn't great, obiwan is poor in suresu. Also should we be taking obiwans states from the end of the second movie just to be consistent. I mean two masters vs a master and the sith equivalent of an knight? If we take bane with that logic in mind bane is a poor duelist. He loses to kas'im, cannot stop a rain of orbelisks (he can completely stonewall a rainstorm) and survives a fight with three non force sensitives only because of his orbelisks.
+Henry Gordon the point is that zannah is not at her full power at the end of book three. Therefore a better fight would be mace and voss or obiwan as seen as an apprentice and quigon. Either way with that added in I would have to say bane and zannah would win in a fair fight however even with this setup I would say obiwan would lose to zannah while mace may just carry his side. If this fight took place on a dark side nexus not only would the sith have the tredrils but they would also have the death field, which is similar to what palpatine throws up on byss but in a combat setting like Darth nihilis. In any fair fight the sith have a massive advantage.
The prophecy of the Sith'ari, as discussed by Sorzus Syn, reads as: "The Sith'ari will be free of limits. The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them. The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before" Bane destroys the Sith on Ruusan by persuading Kaan to use the thought bomb and then initiates the Rule of Two which culminates in the overthrow of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, with a Sith Lord ruling the galaxy
I love your work and keep it up, also I'd personally like to see a team battle with Mace Windu and Obi-Wan vs. Luke Skywalker and Jaina Solo. Thanks if you like this match.
Zannah is only 10 years younger than Bane. No matter how she developed, I'm certain Cognus' gift which allows her to cloud a Force Sensitive's ability would have figured in her ultimate downfall. Regardless, she's fighting Obi-wan who is at most 5 years older than her. Seeing as she already specializes more with the Force than he does, she's not at a severe disadvantage at all. While I appreciate your response, I think this is a very different situation than say, Dooku and Ventress for example.
There are events far more traumatic in Bane's past than Kenobi's. He was able to set aside pain and turmoil in order to do things like fulfill Qui-gon's wishes and to do his duty when it came to dealing with Anakin on Mustafar. That shows a solid dedication and resilience to me. I think I did make it very clear that this will be difficult for either side to win. I said her sorcery wouldn't take Kenobi down. Not that it would bounce right off him.
While Kenobi is undoubtedly a better duellist than what we've seen of Zannah, I think it's important to remember that we have only ever seen Zannah while she was still learning, whereas we've seen Obi-Wan at every stage of his development of a duelling technique. Allow a few more years for Zannah to truly master her style and I think, and this is just my opinion, she could prove to be a match for Obi-Wan
Absolutely awesome video! However I would like to point out that Zannah doesn't get a fair representation of her full potential as she was sourced from a point when she was still relatively young. Where with Mace, Obi-Wan, and Bane you took the source of their abilities from the peak of their power. Of course the information of her full potential doesn't exist, but to be fair she would have to fight someone who is in a similar place of development or at least give mention of her disadvantage.
I think the potential caveat with this matchup is if the duels are reversed: Obiwan vs Bane, Windu vs zannah. Admittedly, the best zannah can hope for is a stalemate, but she's more likely to simply hold her own than bane is, given that her strength is simply that- holding her own. Meantime, bane has the consummate advantage against obi-wan, despite obiwans proficiency with soresu. Bane has perfected his ability to overwhelm any blade wielder of the known forms, and soresu is no exception. Kasim, who is likely the greatest "bladesmaster" ever seen was overwrought by bane's abilities, at least until he threw in a form that bane was unfamiliar with- mace's primary advantage against bane in a duel. If bane is capable of beating kasim in a battle of known styles, which obiwan is obviously limited to, bane would likely cut obiwan down, despite obiwan's familiarity with djem so, and his gift at defense. Once you get to the makashi- level of fighting, combined with djem so, and bane's overwhelming force capabilities, obi-wan is incapable of surviving. The outcome is either zannah holds off windu until bane kills obiwan, or windu kills zannah, and bane kills obiwan. Windu versus bane head to head is not clear cut, seeing as how you discounted bane's outright force blast. Kasim didn't block telekinesis, it was a force blast that would've literally pulverized his very body. The makgurth that bane did the same thing to was another example of bane's ability to rip through others force protection. While windu is stronger in the force compared to kasim or the makgurth, bane's abilities are slightly unknown, but likely somewhere in the realm of yoda, slightly below palpatine , but almost certainly above windu's extensive abilities. Whether or not it makes a difference is unknown, but I wanted to point out bane's pure force blast, seeing its unprecedented powers could either distill, or outweigh, windu's shatterpoint power. All in all I loved the weighing of the abilities, much like I enjoy jensaarai's take on certain matchups. I simply want to offer my theory on a potential twist on this battle, and to point out bane's force blast. Great topic, really enjoyed the video!
Interesting. I deliberately chose to pit the more experienced masters against one another because that seemed more balanced to me. It was originally suggested to me (more than 3 years ago I think) that I use Mace Windu and Anakin against Darth Bane and Darth Sidious I think. That seemed too imbalanced to me in the Sith's favor. I decided to keep with Mace Windu and Darth Bane, added in Obi-wan Kenobi because (at the time) I hadn't used him yet, and simply decided on Zannah as the most natural partner for Bane since she's his actual apprentice in the lore. I agree that Kenobi vs. Bane is not likely going to end well for the Jedi. On the whole, I do think Bane is more powerful than Mace Windu as I hinted in the video. The thing is, I don't think it's by enough of a margin to make a big difference. While Bane can do certain things better than Windu, Windu can defend himself from each technique. The only one which Bane would gain the advantage would be his usage of a Death Field. Which he admittedly can't do without draining himself unless he uses a Dark Side nexus to augment his powers such as on Prakith. If the fight did take place off of neutral ground and was set on a world steeped in the dark side, I would give the Sith the edge.
GreyJedi91 I totally understand the logic of your choices, and it's a very defensible argument. I agreed with your assessment, I guess I'm just a big Darth Bane fanboy, lol. A battle with Anakin/Windu vs Bane/Sidious is so heavily complex, It would be almost impossible to decipher a winner. The biggest problem I see with that matchup is with Anakin - what capabilities is he allowed to use, considering his defeat of dooku was used under the influence of the dark side. Is he only allowed to use the light, and curb his potential (in his mind, anyway), or allow him to use his abilities in any way he chooses? Another problem I would have finding a victor in that matchup is sidious' indeterminate dueling abilities. From reading the Revenge of the Sith novelization, I still don't know the scope of his Force powers; was he baiting Anakin into action by feigning weakness, or was Mace truly capable of killing him through Vaapad? It would be awesome if you or Jensaarai ever decide to wade through that epic battle, but I look forward to any, because these are always a joy to watch/ ponder. Keep up the great work, I really enjoyed the KOTOR review!
Zannah's Sith Sorcery ability's were a little over looked those are techniques that haven't been seen for a thousand years. i think that because the ability is so foreign to them that by the time they realized what was happening and put up a defense it would be to late. remember Bane had to research it to successfully defend against it, neither one of the Jedi have any idea about how to defend against it. and i would take a guess that Obi-Wan would be more susceptible to it then Mace.
This is true. The only reason I gave Kenobi the edge there is because this contest would eventually turn into an endurance test. She has no means of overcoming him with her lightsaber. She can only evade and defend. He's not as limited. But what you say is true. And I've said before, this match doesn't NEED to go the way I describe. The Sith COULD definitely win. Just, statistically, I think the Jedi are more likely. Thanks for the comment.
Darth Andeddu vs Darth Sion. Or Darth Bane vs Darth Sion, both badasses that aren't gonna go down easily. Please do a versus video featuring one of these Siths as I don't see them get recognition(not including Bane). And include Darth Ruin in a video at some point.
Does anyone else feel that Darth Bane shouldn't of died from his apprentice? I don't know much about Darth Zannah but I feel Bane was MUCH more powerful than her. I just feel he should of been killed by someone else.
I agree. In a straight-up fight, Bane would have stomped Zannah. She required extensive planning and a shitload of luck to win, and even then, she almost lost. Heck, some people think Bane actually succeeded in possessing Zannah, and continued to possess each Rule of Two Sith down the line until he got to Palpatine, and by then he'd been so degraded by the Dark Side that he went insane. This could also explain a deeper reason for him only teaching Zannah Soresu and nothing else: a way of leverage against her.
Jedi Grand Master Yoda i think you're also assuming that the writers of the fights keep track of every skill/ power they give a character. sometimes as a writer you have someone win a fight not because they are better, but because it serves your story.
Kenny Richter I agree but I like that the battle was written in a way to illustrate that Bane threw everything at Zannah and even when his arm was severed he was still able to use essence transfer. Zannah using the dark side tendrils was utterly desperate but proved fruitful.
I know this is a year + old but seriously never a need to apologize for having to try and pay bills. Life happens and I think most sane people understand if we are not paying you then you must prioritize things that do pay you. Anyways great video really enjoyed it. I hope to see more.
Obi wan>zannah physically matched anakin can survive getting burned by lava skywalker! was the all time master of soresu, and his mastery of Ataru contended with shaak ti as the second best of his era. He clearly mastered duel blade fencing shown by how he beat both maul and oppress. Not convinced, even a way way out of prime obi wan who hadn't fought in decades still was able to contend with darth vader . Zannah has nothing on that. she only stood a chance against bane with dark side tendrils she could only summon because of where they dueled and still got disarmed. ALSO STOP ACTING LIKE THE SITH SORCERY IS A TRUMP CARD ISN't. It only works when someone hasn't faced his inner demons. Obi Kenobi has seen his best friend become enslaved to evil, has seen what is essentially is his family get completely decimated, and the betrayal of so wine who he considered his brother. What the heck does zannah have on that, Obi wan Kenobi vs zannah, is like anakin vs ventress. While she can hold her own, she definitely isn't winning.
Obi-Wan wasn't able to beat his 'inner demons'. If he had Anakin would have died on Mustafar by Kenobi's lightsaber. And Savage Opress wasn't properly trained.
Jam Newton Really? When he was able to casually kill Jedi knights and masters? And he had some training from both Dooku and his brother Maul, so I am saying he got some training off screen. And him not killing Anakin isn't a demon it is simply he thought he was going to die after being dipped in lava and losing three damn limbs.
+Josh Campbell obi wan does not kill. Hes propably the perfect jedi all arround. he follows the jedi path like nobodey else and he only kills someone when hes forced to do it like vs grevious who was a threat to kenobi when dissarmed but anakin had nothing compared to kenobi following this kenobi wouldnt kill him.
Obi wan is shown to have some inner demons in the book "wild space" I don't want to spoil it but I'm not sure how the thing manipulating obi wans past against him would stack up against Zannah but it's worth considering and the book is on audible which is probably the easiest way to get it
I've noticed something throughout all of the times I've watched Star Wars and listening to information, one cannot enter battle without a change in the mind heart, you literally have to change your mentality almost daily if you truly want to become stronger
watched the first half, the mace / bane match up was very interesting and enlightening, on the zannah portion it seemed that not much (if any) consideration was given to her force/mind manipulations ability even if useless against obi wan it should still be noted and reasoned why it would be rendered useless just as it was shown that banes blood lust style would have only emboldened the strength of windu's unique dark force channeled style
Make a video sharing your thoughts on whether or not you think Mace actually beat Palpatine. Using more obscure characters like Aayla, Pong Krell, Quinlan vos, or A'Sharrad would be good as well.
Wasn't part of the prophecy "perfect body, perfect power, perfect destiny"? Bane was none of those things. Besides, on Ruussan it is heavily implied that he sustained terrible brain damage which may have effected his sanity.
Let's be honest... Zannah by the end of her own novel undoubtedly would have progressed to a truly scary level... Not fair pairing name with a newly minted master
(Love the series. . . first time commenting): I feel like you missed the impact that Mace's chosen style would have on Zannah's ability to use sorcery. The net effect of Mace drawing on someone as brutal as Bane and amplifying that dark energy in his light mind would (in my assessment) create a massive opportunity for Zannah to exploit. I also think that Obi-Wan has some demons of his own, but agree that Zannah would be hard pressed to exploit them. When I consider Bane and Zannah's defeat of 4 notable Jedi (all under a skilled battle meditation), I find it hard to believe that they couldn't defeat Obi-Wan and Mace. Technically speaking, the main flaw in your analysis as I see it is the assumption that this would be a battle of Mace vs. Bane and Zannah vs. Obi-Wan (i.e. that it would play out like two one-on-one battles). I see Bane holding off both Jedi with Zannah only minimally engaged until she was ready to start drawing off of Windu's use of dark side energy enough to start mucking with his mind. Considering Obi-Wan's defensive leaning style, I see this as viable. Zannah's attack wouldn't need to be lethal, just enough to pause him to Bane could take him out. After that it's pretty much over. The other option would be Zannah holding off Windu long enough for Bane to crack Obi-Wan. I see Zannah as able to hold off Windu longer than Obi-Wan could hold off Bane (mostly based on styles vs. ability). Bane is quick and dirty, while Mace is more even handed, and Zannah's shield is better than Obi-Wan's.
I would submit that Kenobi could have absorbed or blocked Sith lightning with his hand, but during his battle against Duku on Genosis he chose not to, instead using his lightsaber to block it simply because it was easier to do so. This would be in line with his emerging practice of Soresu, which focuses on conserving one's energy.
Zannah did not actually defeat Bane. In his final moments, Bane reached out with the force and invoked the ritual of essence transfer. Although his body was destroyed in the process, he claimed Zannah's body. The fact that Caugnus realized Zannah's left hand began having tremmers after the essence transfer proves this as this was one of the weaknesses Bane began to develop with old age
Leo Ray How does that explain the tremmers in her hand? Only the life force of his hand transferred? That makes no sense. Also Zannahs overall demeanor changed after the essence transfer, before it she was questioning herself, her decision to take on set harth as an apprentice, her ability to defeat Bane in general. Afterwards she took on Banes obvious confidence in all things dark side. Bane wouldn't want his new apprentice to know of his ability to transfer his life essence to another body. Would be interesting to find out how set harth carried on his training with the holocron!
Are you still taking suggestions? Because I have a few. Anakin & Obi Wan vs Maul & Savage Anakin & Obi Wan vs Darth Sidious Maul and Savage vs Dooku Clone Wars Maul vs Darth Maul Anakin and Ashoka vs Dooku Plo Koon & Shaak Ti vs Anakin and Obi Wan
I greatly agree with this verdict =) physicality is pretty irrelevant here honestly, it's pretty close to judge cumulatively. Force abilities i'll say Bane and Zannah get the edge, but not significantly, considering Zannah's trump card isn't gonna work out on Mace or Obi-Wan (Mace resisted Sidious' mindfucking, Obi-Wan is someone who only cracked under Maul's taunting, though that was very circumstantial, due to their history, Maul didn't penetrate Obi-Wan's mind, he just lost it in their first TCW duel. As for Mace's trump card, very effective against such blunt expressions of rage as Bane and Zannah. So in terms of raw ability I'd give the Sith the edge, but Mace can answer this and Obi can hold his own. In terms of dueling? Total stomp in the Jedi's favour. Mace > Obi => Bane > Zannah. This is WITHOUT even considering Vapaad. Zannah's Soresu is jelly compared to Obi-Wan who I think in a dueling only scenario could even defeat Bane.
i agree with everything you've said in this video, including Windu's mastery of the blade. But i just can't see Bane being taken down by either masters. The Sithari, the true embodiment to the dark side wouldn't be killed by any other than Yoda. Even then i'd say Yoda would only take the victory because of his versatility and advantage in knowledge of the force
@@idiot3412 Bane surpassed the entire Sith council under Khan after only training for a handful of years and from a late age. Not to mention he scared Githany with his power, someone who had trained with the force her entire life. In the height of his power he fought 2 Jedi masters and a Knight to a standstill, even pushing them back thanks to his orbalisk armour. A lot of people underestimate Bane, and I can only think those people didn’t let the information from Bane’s trilogy truly sink in
@@RM-wy3xn Sorry, that was me choosing bad words. Bane is insanely powerful but firstly, there are a good amount of jedi and sith that are more powerful then Yoda and secondly while Bane is super powerful, so is Obi Wan and espacially Mace
@@idiot3412 so i can agree that there are a handful of Jedi more powerful than Bane. To say otherwise would be an insult to the RO2. But Mace is famous for being one of the most famous swordsman, on par with Dooku, and apparently according to new canon behind Yoda. While I don’t necessarily agree with it, canon is what Disney decides
If you do the math she doesn't have much less experience than Bane. She's not a child anymore. She's sparred with the likes of her master and tested her skills in battle against weapons specialists. Early on in her training, Bane even acknowledges that she may NEVER be his equal as a swordsman. This is the primary reason, aside from her natural ability, for her specialization with the defensive Soresu and offensive Sorcery. By the end of DoE she is a Sith master. I think it's all fair game here.
Yarealpoof forgot about Lightsaber Form V that Obi-Wan Kenobi learned. Skywalker further studied lightsaber skills that he found in a journal left to him by Obi-Wan Kenobi and advanced his abilities.[1] Later, aboard the second Death Star, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, mirroring Vader's Form V technique.
saying that Zannah blasted her cousin’s hand off isnt a good showcase to use for her for starters she was a child and was completely untrained the same can be said for the jedi she killed she was angry and lashed out as any child would do she just had a strong connection to the force
Zana would make Obi-wan go crazy, literally. She's shred through his force defense and place a spell within his mind making him face his greatest fears during a fight.Obi-wan failed on many occasions that his force defense is greatly lacking; reference Darth Tyranus throwing him like a rag doll. Furthermore, Darth Zana beat Bane in a straight-up one-on-one match. That right there indicates that she's far more powerful than Obi-wan. You also understate Darth Zana's almost impenetrable defense with her sabers. Otherwise, great work and thanks for taking the time to produce this hypothesis.
+Miyamoto Clan Darth Tyrannus is a power house in terms of telekinesis, he was one of the greatest in the Jedi Order before he came a Sith lord. Number 2 Zannah's spells of fear and madness can be dispelled with simple will power, and Obi-wan and Mace have such strong wills that her spells don't have a chance in hell of actually effecting them. Zannah only beat Bane because of her dark side tendrils that she most likely cannot use any where else, and was extremely labor intensive in a dark side Nexus and she was still disarmed by a single handed Bane, Zannah's lightsaber skills are rather pathetic to be honest.
+Josh Campbell It takes much more than simple will power to resist her sorcery, as it took Bane(Who has a stronger will than nearly every being), all of his will and concentration to dispatch them.
PlagueBoy All it took for him was his will power to dispell them and he is not massively more powerful then other beings. Also Obi-wan contended with the most powerful force sensitive in the history of Star Wars, and Mace Windu held off the greatest Sith Lord in all of Star Wars. Zannah has no chance against either of them.
hmm ehh I skiped to end cause I wanted to know what was your verditic but the way u say it id actually have to agree. I've read the whole bane series and id have to say your right. However bane and zannah could also win this if bane acted as a tank and took on both of them and zanna using her powers to kill them. Together they really were death incarnate. But would they work together.... Bane with armor zannah wasn't complete yet and bane with no armor would he last vs two people..... mace was a master after all. But then again so was bane well kinda ... I don't know man I really say 60/40 60 mace 40 Bane. Really hard one. nice job ill watch whole thing when I get time.
While your right I am annoyed by bane fanboys saying bane will tank and zannah will kill them they forget zannah can't fight for shit her main power is telepathy useless here and dark side tendrils won't work here at best windu will just turn around and chop her in half while obi wans soresu holds of bane and mace will go back and kill bane so I'd say mace+Kenobi 70% chance bane and zannah 30%chance
Lewis Robertson you also forget that Zannah has a almost unbreakable lightsaber defense with her double bladed lightsaber, hard to chop someone in half when she parries your every strike... you act like she's still a mere apprentice.
ShadowsMentor I know but vapped is said to be able to break through the guard of a master of soresu plus zannah goes to block the most predictable strike first and vapped is just random swings and I doubt zannah would react fast enough to block all maces strikes so I may have phrased it wrong but I stand by it that mace would kill zannah
ShadowsMentor it pretty much is 1 vs 1 as obi wans defense is sufficient to hold out against bane for at least enough time for windu to take out zannah
Even before engaging this epic duel, I had sufficient knowledge of Mace Windu, Obi-wan Kenobi, and Darth Bane and Darth Zannah from they're three book trilogy. I felt both Jedi Masters had a definitive edge on their opponents. After going into the video, this guy explained the strengths and weaknesses of both. While it's true Master Windu's legendary Vapaad is not a guarantee win against all Sith, he explained this to a varying degrees. Why it won't work against Dooku, who did not heavily rely on the dark side to boost his already powerful strength and speed. Vapaad was designed for Windu to face off against Emperor Palpatine and Darth Bane. These are men who rely heavily on the dark side to enhance they're abilities to unfathomable heights. Mace using shatterpoint would be the decisive outcome. One could argue that Bane could out think Windu, I beg to differ, why? Windu was no slouch,, I am willing to bet Mace would keep Bane so engaged, he simply wouldn't have enough free time too think. Master Wind's fighting style and Vapaad was designed to defeat the powerful kind of Sith Lord Bane became.
If Zannah can manage to put enough distance between her and Kenobi then she'd be able to unleash her sorcery at him, and there are demons that Kenobi never buried, especially Qui-Gon's death. She manages to succeed to a degree against Bane with her sorcery, and he's buried all his old fears. If Zannah can distract Kenobi and use it to her advantage while Bane holds off Windu then the Sith can certainly make it difficult for the Jedi even if they don't win.
Saying Zannah can prob only use dark side tendrils in specific locations since she didnt use them in her first fight with a light saber-less Bane is flawed logic. She didnt she her other sorcery tricks either after Bane tricked her into fighting with her light saber and no sorcery period.
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I don't check my comments on older videos very often. The music at the end is called "Odennal Pi" from E.S. Posthumus. Hope that helps.
To my opinion Windu and Bane would have engage each other while Kenobi and Zhana would have wait for the opening to strike. I think Bane would have taken the advantage and Kenobi would jump in to help Windu, giving the opportunity to Zhana to cast a spell. I don't think the jedis will get injure from t, but it will force them to split their attention, letting Bane the path open for Bane to kill one of his opponents. And then it will be a 2 siths vs 1 jedi, and i don't think Kenobi or Windu can match vs the two at the same time. Sorry for the bad english, i'm just a french viewer, anyway: nice video.
I would really love to see a 1 vs 1 video of Dooku vs Windu. Why has no one done this yet? They are my 2 fav force users of the clone wars and both excellent with a saber.
Bane and Zannah should take this. Though Windu would beat either Zannah or Bane 1v1 both are more than capable of putting up a good fight. Obi Wan however has force defences that are way to weak to withstand Bane or Zannahs force abilities. Dooku has casually ragdolled Obi Wan multiple time and Maul has ragdolled Obi Wan multiple times as well. This is despite neither having tk feats close to Bane and Through scaling we know zannah has at least comparable levels of ability with tk to bane if not superior. Obi Wan gets overwhelmed with force abilities quickly then Windu gets overwhelmed by the combined might of Zannah and Bane
The body didn't have to be his like his original body but one that is fairly close to it (ex tall, muscular, etc) and Zanneths body is not even close to his old one. Thus the assumption can be made that if he controlled Zanneths body he would transfer to a cloned body like his own as soon as possible. Also he would tell Congus that he survived. This is because Bane's ultimate goal is not power for himself but the success of the rule of two. He would tell her so that if she became the next
Yeah i agree I also think that the jedi would have won. According to me Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker are the greatest swordsmen of all time. Could you make a versus video between them?
I think it's easy Mace & Obi > Bane & Zannah. But a tough one would be Mace & Obi VS Bane & Malgus.
I'm pretty sure the Sith would win, then.
Malgus has superior physical condition obviously, and saber skills. I'd say Force abilities too, as he can use lightning, force scream, Force Maelstrom, Oneness etc... Zannah's main usage is sorcery which Malgus is trained to resist.
Zannah has never seen lightning before. Also, a master of Djem So, like Darth Malgus, can break a master's Soresu. Zannah is not a Soresu master, and has little to no offense. The only edge I would give Zannah would be in weaponry.
Doubt it, sincerely. Malgus saber skills > Bane's. Malgus is way way faster, maybe to fast for Zannah to react, even. I still don't think sorcery will work on Malgus.
Zannah barely ever uses her lightsaber for offense, and when she does, it's clunky, unprecise, predictable and extremely weak. Malgus would hold off her attacks, and keep her in check whilst battering on her with Djem So, which would make her incapable of casting any illusions. I think it's pretty obvious that in a 1v1, Malgus would bulldose Zannah. Duels is his thing, not Zannah's.
I very much appreciate the recognition you gave to Bane here. I see way too many pushing Bane to the side and suggesting he is a weak duelist because he has not been shown in many duels, yet there’s no evidence to this. It is said in the books multiple times that he is an excellent duelist and I’m glad you recognized him for that
Zannah is far from a 'blunt instument'; even as a kid she attempted to trip Bane by applying force to his ankle, rather than a full- frontal attack. She is very crafty and resourseful.
Nice break down and comparison of these rivals. Well done.
Jacen Solo vs. Anakin Skywalker would be a good fight. Love your work keep it up!!
Jorrit Kivinen Do you mean Jacen or Darth Caedus? Because I don’t think Jacen could beat Anakin. Darth Caedus would at least give Anakin a spot of trouble.
Caedus and Vader would be good but common Skywalker could easily do away with Solo Caedus and Vader if we talker peak level Skywalker right before 66
@@katkenobi6765 bruh. Anakin may be the superior swordsman, but honestly, Caedus is not far off. If anything, Caedus is actually the superior swordsman, given his ability to defend very well against Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, Kyle Katarn, and Legends Luke Skywalker. All four are comfortably above Anakin as duelists, and above him as Force wielders. Anakin's greatest feats as a swordsman were pressuring Obi Wan, and defeating Dooku. The former duel ended in Kenobi winning due to his tactical superiority, and the latter, was basically a repetition of Qui Gon Jinn vs Maul. Jinn was the superior duelist, butMaul won through his superior physique. Likewise, Dooku was easily above Anakin in terms of raw skill and tactics, but lost becuase of Anakin's monstrous physical capabilities. Anakin would not enjoy the same advantages against Caedus. Caedus is comparable to Anakin in terms of physique, possibly even above him, is the superior swordsman, and a far more advanced Force wielder. Anakin's defeat of Ventress doesn't even count. She embarrassed him on multiple occasions, and in any case, is inferior to all those he faced in a duel, aside from Barriss Offee, perhaps. Caedus takes this any day of the week, and with ridiculous ease.
Jacen or Caedus. Anakin would beat Jacen but Caedus would beat Anakin by a good margin
Anakin can defeat any version of Jacen
Thanks! Glad it finally came out. I've been meaning to do this project for a couple of years.
Hey Greyjedi 91 Matt please tell me what you think between me and you after reading the new comments.
I do think that's an isolated incident. The 2 characters had a history of animosity against one another because of what happened on Naboo. By the time he was a master he wasn't usually vulnerable to such tactics as Dun Moch. In the ROTS novel, Dooku even comments on Kenobi's composure. He's actually not too bad at taunting and goading his own opponents in a manner similar to the Sith practice of Dun Moch.
This was absolutely fantastic, I really appreciate the effort you put into this video! looking forward to more from you :)
Very cool presentation! Great music as well. I'm a fan of Mace Windu and of the Shatterpoint novel. I love all of the Shatterpoint references.
Love the Mass Effect & Beyond Good & Evil background music, awesome versus video man!
I also heard some Battlestar Galactica music at 22:30 :)
tfl1997 Yep, "Something Dark is Coming"
Obi-wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Revan and Darth Malak
As powerful Darth Revan and Malak is, Obi-Wan is probably one of the greatest Jedi of all time, and Anakin Skywalker who is well... the Chosen one. I definitely like this idea though, Darth Bane and Zannah are Master and Student, and more duels having Master-Student facing another pair would be great.
I Think The Rule Of Two to be...Very Good!
I give Revan and Malak the edge for his force abilities
Anakin = Revan???? > Obi wan > Malak
revan and malak
Could you do a video for Count Dooku versus Mace Windu? They were both leading forces during the Clone Wars, they're implied to have a history, and I would imagine it would be very close.
Antoine Bandele has already done it.
Dooku
can you do a battle of the droids? HK-47 Vs. IG-88
what is wrong with you I want magnar guard vs c3p0
@@frostboomba1462 I am C3P0, human cyborg relations. I am fluent in over 6 million forms of kicking your ass.
very interesting and informative, appreciate the video mate!
This was great. I don't see how it doesn't have a crap ton of views! :D
Dude i love these vid you make man. Makes the lore feel even more epic. Keep up the great work!
Dude, the Video that NEEDS to be done is Darth Cognus Vs. Mace Windu, one draws on their ability to dampen the other's force connection the other draws on the others negative emotions. ULTIMATE STAR WARS DUEL.
Great job. Jeez, what a project. Good for you. Very well researched and I agree with the outcome and much of the arguement.
Zannah has alot of other dark spells she didnt use. That gets a lot of shout outs.
I wonder at how Orbalisk armor would change this outcome... I do not think Windu's channeling of the dark side scales up evenly with scaling up of the dark side power... Dont think Windu would hold up. Zannah could hold obi wan 1v1. That's what her style is and she could throw some serious obstacles at him with her dark spells... which, once again, are said to outnumber the ones she ends up using.
Wow! I forgot why I subbed to you lol. I love this!! Obi-wan is my favorite Star Wars character and this is nice seeing how you compare and match up Star Wars characters against each other.
Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis vs. Galen Marek and Darth Vader
Traiken Tercept
Galen and Vader would most likely win because of Vader’s experience, Galen’s skill, and the pairs familiarity with each others preferred fighting styles. Not to say this wouldn’t be a tough fight, Bane’s strength and speed are comparable to Vader’s however Galen is a slight bit faster, and Plagueis is skilled but ultimately under specialized with his lightsaber with his wepions training
Galen > Plagueis
Vader > Bane
Galen and Vader would win.
I really enjoy these evaluations, and I would like them to continue, with one small addition: when its pairs fighting, you need to add an additional category to evaluate them by: teamwork. In this case, this is where Bane and Zannah truly shine; I see Bane as having the strategic know how to hold off both attackers, while Zannah uses her advanced techniques in stealth to manipulate the fight, and/or begin a ritual to eliminate both Jedi from the shadows. While Mace an Obi have fought together, they are ultimately two swordsman, and Mace does best in his form when fighting alone, where he can cut loose. Bane coils recognize the need for his apprentice to prepare for a sixth spell and additionally having fought Jedi in tandem before, he would have a better grasp of the initial leverage in a fight. By the time Mace's Shatterpoint ability reveals to him he intent, I feel it'd be too late.
You have both lesser duelist a just waiting in the wings for the conclusion of Bane and Windu, and that too is an inaccuracy- perhaps it's just too many parts to calculate for?
Its not to much to caculate read my latest comments.
Read my cooments uP above.
@Banethesithari in the revenge of the sith novelization it states that "obi wan wasn't even fighting he was only a vessel emptied of self the force guided by his clarity of mind fought through him." He stonewalled general grievous up to 18 strikes per second.This is really impressive because Grievous was swinging four lightsabers and they were attacking obi from all angles. But the point were I can prove you wrong is when you said "he couldn't hold off grievous at 21 strikes per second and he had to switch to offense so he was overwhelmed." During the duel he didn't take the offensive really he just stopped stonewalling grievous and using ataru to reinforce is defense and make him harder to hit so he did effectively guard against 21 strikes per second and we see him in the movie slip and weave which ataru users do a lot.
Loved it! I fully agree with the outcome aswell. For some reason people always think that the Sith lords of old are way stronger than the Jedi's around the fall of the order. I don't know why. I think it's a very nice pairing you made on both sides. Zannah is strong in what she does but I don't think she's very well fitted to fight these two particulair jedi. They are so well developed and pretty much the best the order has to offer. Even if where Obi-wan vs Bane and Windu vs Zannah they would still probably win. Bane is a powerhouse but I don't see him overpowering Obi-wan faster then Windu would Zannah. Only sith that could overpower Obi-wan in a one on one duel must be Malgus. He is such a combative powerhouse only few others have come close or surpassed that. I don't think Bane is one of them. Nice pairing! love the time you took for it.
Good vid and love the m3 theme music at the beginning. Love that game too
You really underestimate Zannah in my opinion.
I agree. I just read the three novels on Darth Bane. What I learned about Bane was that he was nearly impossible to beat, especially with his armor. Darth Zannah had a defense that could be as strong as Kenobi but her Sith sorcery could cripple almost all of her opponents. If there were fears or regrets in your mind she would expose and exploit them and leave you tearing yourself apart. Truly underrated
+NeDouble S yeah he and serai really are not so good at estimating or getting there info right
+Qasim Hassan and what happened to Both of their trump cards???? Zannah would find a way to fire of a pure dark side tendril it would not be a fluke she used it against bane who is a offensive beast, and there is no proof that obiwan has no demons, as stated in previous videos buy these guys he has crappy force defense, her mind attacks would cripple or exhaust him. Zannah is a Sith Sorceress, aka Obiwan's worst nightmare, her dueling skills were for defense only not for her primary form of attacking. And bane could always soul invade, which is another argument as to if obiwan or mace could fight back his invading spirit. Zannah would trash obiwan. not in a saber duel, but with the force, her strongest feature and Obiwans greats weakness to defend against. they underestimated Zannah greatly and were way biased for the jedi. (well maybe she wouldn't trash him but you get my point, there is just no way it would be that easy for Obiwan, if he could even get to a stalemate)
+RyukLuvApples I would disagree with the fact that she can simply fire off a tredril at will, however I will say that obi wan has nothing that zannah cannot beat. Well obiwan does have more offensive ability in his light sabre skillset zannah is vastly stronger defensively surviving on the apprentice of the very best of a specialist. This fight is quite similar to that of grevious and obiwans duel in episode 3. Both of their opponents are extremely high classed duelists but weak in the force. By the logic zannah isn't great, obiwan is poor in suresu. Also should we be taking obiwans states from the end of the second movie just to be consistent. I mean two masters vs a master and the sith equivalent of an knight? If we take bane with that logic in mind bane is a poor duelist. He loses to kas'im, cannot stop a rain of orbelisks (he can completely stonewall a rainstorm) and survives a fight with three non force sensitives only because of his orbelisks.
+Henry Gordon the point is that zannah is not at her full power at the end of book three. Therefore a better fight would be mace and voss or obiwan as seen as an apprentice and quigon. Either way with that added in I would have to say bane and zannah would win in a fair fight however even with this setup I would say obiwan would lose to zannah while mace may just carry his side. If this fight took place on a dark side nexus not only would the sith have the tredrils but they would also have the death field, which is similar to what palpatine throws up on byss but in a combat setting like Darth nihilis. In any fair fight the sith have a massive advantage.
The prophecy of the Sith'ari, as discussed by Sorzus Syn, reads as:
"The Sith'ari will be free of limits. The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them. The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before"
Bane destroys the Sith on Ruusan by persuading Kaan to use the thought bomb and then initiates the Rule of Two which culminates in the overthrow of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, with a Sith Lord ruling the galaxy
I love your work and keep it up, also I'd personally like to see a team battle with Mace Windu and Obi-Wan vs. Luke Skywalker and Jaina Solo. Thanks if you like this match.
Luke and Jaina easily
Zannah is only 10 years younger than Bane. No matter how she developed, I'm certain Cognus' gift which allows her to cloud a Force Sensitive's ability would have figured in her ultimate downfall. Regardless, she's fighting Obi-wan who is at most 5 years older than her. Seeing as she already specializes more with the Force than he does, she's not at a severe disadvantage at all. While I appreciate your response, I think this is a very different situation than say, Dooku and Ventress for example.
Do I hear mass effect soundtrack? :)
Amon my man, your the only Grey Jedi I know who can use people's blood to Force choke them, and bend elements
What if we had Mace Windu vs. Savage Opress?
DarthWill3 lol
RIP
Mace stomps
Mace draws the dark energy from Savage, amplifies himself and wins.
@@supremeleaderren7681 Windu doesn't need vaapad to kill Savage
Kenobi does have inner demons. he was forced to watch as his Jedi Master was killed and he had to dismember his former apprentince.
There are events far more traumatic in Bane's past than Kenobi's. He was able to set aside pain and turmoil in order to do things like fulfill Qui-gon's wishes and to do his duty when it came to dealing with Anakin on Mustafar. That shows a solid dedication and resilience to me. I think I did make it very clear that this will be difficult for either side to win. I said her sorcery wouldn't take Kenobi down. Not that it would bounce right off him.
While Kenobi is undoubtedly a better duellist than what we've seen of Zannah, I think it's important to remember that we have only ever seen Zannah while she was still learning, whereas we've seen Obi-Wan at every stage of his development of a duelling technique. Allow a few more years for Zannah to truly master her style and I think, and this is just my opinion, she could prove to be a match for Obi-Wan
Absolutely awesome video! However I would like to point out that Zannah doesn't get a fair representation of her full potential as she was sourced from a point when she was still relatively young. Where with Mace, Obi-Wan, and Bane you took the source of their abilities from the peak of their power. Of course the information of her full potential doesn't exist, but to be fair she would have to fight someone who is in a similar place of development or at least give mention of her disadvantage.
I think the potential caveat with this matchup is if the duels are reversed: Obiwan vs Bane, Windu vs zannah. Admittedly, the best zannah can hope for is a stalemate, but she's more likely to simply hold her own than bane is, given that her strength is simply that- holding her own. Meantime, bane has the consummate advantage against obi-wan, despite obiwans proficiency with soresu. Bane has perfected his ability to overwhelm any blade wielder of the known forms, and soresu is no exception. Kasim, who is likely the greatest "bladesmaster" ever seen was overwrought by bane's abilities, at least until he threw in a form that bane was unfamiliar with- mace's primary advantage against bane in a duel. If bane is capable of beating kasim in a battle of known styles, which obiwan is obviously limited to, bane would likely cut obiwan down, despite obiwan's familiarity with djem so, and his gift at defense. Once you get to the makashi- level of fighting, combined with djem so, and bane's overwhelming force capabilities, obi-wan is incapable of surviving. The outcome is either zannah holds off windu until bane kills obiwan, or windu kills zannah, and bane kills obiwan. Windu versus bane head to head is not clear cut, seeing as how you discounted bane's outright force blast. Kasim didn't block telekinesis, it was a force blast that would've literally pulverized his very body. The makgurth that bane did the same thing to was another example of bane's ability to rip through others force protection. While windu is stronger in the force compared to kasim or the makgurth, bane's abilities are slightly unknown, but likely somewhere in the realm of yoda, slightly below palpatine , but almost certainly above windu's extensive abilities. Whether or not it makes a difference is unknown, but I wanted to point out bane's pure force blast, seeing its unprecedented powers could either distill, or outweigh, windu's shatterpoint power. All in all I loved the weighing of the abilities, much like I enjoy jensaarai's take on certain matchups. I simply want to offer my theory on a potential twist on this battle, and to point out bane's force blast. Great topic, really enjoyed the video!
Interesting. I deliberately chose to pit the more experienced masters against one another because that seemed more balanced to me. It was originally suggested to me (more than 3 years ago I think) that I use Mace Windu and Anakin against Darth Bane and Darth Sidious I think. That seemed too imbalanced to me in the Sith's favor. I decided to keep with Mace Windu and Darth Bane, added in Obi-wan Kenobi because (at the time) I hadn't used him yet, and simply decided on Zannah as the most natural partner for Bane since she's his actual apprentice in the lore. I agree that Kenobi vs. Bane is not likely going to end well for the Jedi. On the whole, I do think Bane is more powerful than Mace Windu as I hinted in the video. The thing is, I don't think it's by enough of a margin to make a big difference. While Bane can do certain things better than Windu, Windu can defend himself from each technique. The only one which Bane would gain the advantage would be his usage of a Death Field. Which he admittedly can't do without draining himself unless he uses a Dark Side nexus to augment his powers such as on Prakith. If the fight did take place off of neutral ground and was set on a world steeped in the dark side, I would give the Sith the edge.
GreyJedi91 I totally understand the logic of your choices, and it's a very defensible argument. I agreed with your assessment, I guess I'm just a big Darth Bane fanboy, lol.
A battle with Anakin/Windu vs Bane/Sidious is so heavily complex, It would be almost impossible to decipher a winner. The biggest problem I see with that matchup is with Anakin - what capabilities is he allowed to use, considering his defeat of dooku was used under the influence of the dark side. Is he only allowed to use the light, and curb his potential (in his mind, anyway), or allow him to use his abilities in any way he chooses?
Another problem I would have finding a victor in that matchup is sidious' indeterminate dueling abilities. From reading the Revenge of the Sith novelization, I still don't know the scope of his Force powers; was he baiting Anakin into action by feigning weakness, or was Mace truly capable of killing him through Vaapad?
It would be awesome if you or Jensaarai ever decide to wade through that epic battle, but I look forward to any, because these are always a joy to watch/ ponder.
Keep up the great work, I really enjoyed the KOTOR review!
Zannah's Sith Sorcery ability's were a little over looked those are techniques that haven't been seen for a thousand years. i think that because the ability is so foreign to them that by the time they realized what was happening and put up a defense it would be to late. remember Bane had to research it to successfully defend against it, neither one of the Jedi have any idea about how to defend against it. and i would take a guess that Obi-Wan would be more susceptible to it then Mace.
This is true. The only reason I gave Kenobi the edge there is because this contest would eventually turn into an endurance test. She has no means of overcoming him with her lightsaber. She can only evade and defend. He's not as limited. But what you say is true. And I've said before, this match doesn't NEED to go the way I describe. The Sith COULD definitely win. Just, statistically, I think the Jedi are more likely. Thanks for the comment.
That was a gr8 breakdown of the Sith and the Jedi history.
Darth Andeddu vs Darth Sion. Or Darth Bane vs Darth Sion, both badasses that aren't gonna go down easily. Please do a versus video featuring one of these Siths as I don't see them get recognition(not including Bane). And include Darth Ruin in a video at some point.
Does anyone else feel that Darth Bane shouldn't of died from his apprentice? I don't know much about Darth Zannah but I feel Bane was MUCH more powerful than her. I just feel he should of been killed by someone else.
I agree. In a straight-up fight, Bane would have stomped Zannah. She required extensive planning and a shitload of luck to win, and even then, she almost lost. Heck, some people think Bane actually succeeded in possessing Zannah, and continued to possess each Rule of Two Sith down the line until he got to Palpatine, and by then he'd been so degraded by the Dark Side that he went insane. This could also explain a deeper reason for him only teaching Zannah Soresu and nothing else: a way of leverage against her.
Jedi Grand Master Yoda i think you're also assuming that the writers of the fights keep track of every skill/ power they give a character. sometimes as a writer you have someone win a fight not because they are better, but because it serves your story.
Kenny Richter you are preaching to the choir.
Kenny Richter
Yup.
Kenny Richter I agree but I like that the battle was written in a way to illustrate that Bane threw everything at Zannah and even when his arm was severed he was still able to use essence transfer. Zannah using the dark side tendrils was utterly desperate but proved fruitful.
Bane vs malgus pls
#OTERO81 Hello fellow Star Wars fan! You have excellent debating skills...come and join www.starwarsforums.org for tons of Star Wars versus topics!
Glad your back
I know this is a year + old but seriously never a need to apologize for having to try and pay bills. Life happens and I think most sane people understand if we are not paying you then you must prioritize things that do pay you. Anyways great video really enjoyed it. I hope to see more.
Obi wan>zannah physically matched anakin can survive getting burned by lava skywalker! was the all time master of soresu, and his mastery of Ataru contended with shaak ti as the second best of his era. He clearly mastered duel blade fencing shown by how he beat both maul and oppress. Not convinced, even a way way out of prime obi wan who hadn't fought in decades still was able to contend with darth vader . Zannah has nothing on that. she only stood a chance against bane with dark side tendrils she could only summon because of where they dueled and still got disarmed. ALSO STOP ACTING LIKE THE SITH SORCERY IS A TRUMP CARD ISN't. It only works when someone hasn't faced his inner demons. Obi Kenobi has seen his best friend become enslaved to evil, has seen what is essentially is his family get completely decimated, and the betrayal of so wine who he considered his brother. What the heck does zannah have on that, Obi wan Kenobi vs zannah, is like anakin vs ventress. While she can hold her own, she definitely isn't winning.
Agree with everything accept the Vader part. He was screwing with Ben the entire fight.
Obi-Wan wasn't able to beat his 'inner demons'. If he had Anakin would have died on Mustafar by Kenobi's lightsaber. And Savage Opress wasn't properly trained.
Jam Newton Really? When he was able to casually kill Jedi knights and masters? And he had some training from both Dooku and his brother Maul, so I am saying he got some training off screen. And him not killing Anakin isn't a demon it is simply he thought he was going to die after being dipped in lava and losing three damn limbs.
+Josh Campbell obi wan does not kill. Hes propably the perfect jedi all arround. he follows the jedi path like nobodey else and he only kills someone when hes forced to do it like vs grevious who was a threat to kenobi when dissarmed but anakin had nothing compared to kenobi following this kenobi wouldnt kill him.
Paul Reuss I meant Savage Opress was capable of killing Jedi Knights and Masters.
Obi wan is shown to have some inner demons in the book "wild space" I don't want to spoil it but I'm not sure how the thing manipulating obi wans past against him would stack up against Zannah but it's worth considering and the book is on audible which is probably the easiest way to get it
Great verses video someone that truly read Star Wars story
I've noticed something throughout all of the times I've watched Star Wars and listening to information, one cannot enter battle without a change in the mind heart, you literally have to change your mentality almost daily if you truly want to become stronger
watched the first half, the mace / bane match up was very interesting and enlightening,
on the zannah portion it seemed that not much (if any) consideration was given to her force/mind manipulations ability even if useless against obi wan it should still be noted and reasoned why it would be rendered useless just as it was shown that banes blood lust style would have only emboldened the strength of windu's unique dark force channeled style
Make a video sharing your thoughts on whether or not you think Mace actually beat Palpatine. Using more obscure characters like Aayla, Pong Krell, Quinlan vos, or A'Sharrad would be good as well.
Wasn't part of the prophecy "perfect body, perfect power, perfect destiny"? Bane was none of those things. Besides, on Ruussan it is heavily implied that he sustained terrible brain damage which may have effected his sanity.
Let's be honest... Zannah by the end of her own novel undoubtedly would have progressed to a truly scary level... Not fair pairing name with a newly minted master
Agreed
Well done, can't wait for the next match up.
You have a good point, and I just love the way you made it. Roflstomp nearly killed me I was laughing so hard.
The original has a fair amount! Glad you enjoyed it!
(Love the series. . . first time commenting): I feel like you missed the impact that Mace's chosen style would have on Zannah's ability to use sorcery. The net effect of Mace drawing on someone as brutal as Bane and amplifying that dark energy in his light mind would (in my assessment) create a massive opportunity for Zannah to exploit. I also think that Obi-Wan has some demons of his own, but agree that Zannah would be hard pressed to exploit them. When I consider Bane and Zannah's defeat of 4 notable Jedi (all under a skilled battle meditation), I find it hard to believe that they couldn't defeat Obi-Wan and Mace. Technically speaking, the main flaw in your analysis as I see it is the assumption that this would be a battle of Mace vs. Bane and Zannah vs. Obi-Wan (i.e. that it would play out like two one-on-one battles). I see Bane holding off both Jedi with Zannah only minimally engaged until she was ready to start drawing off of Windu's use of dark side energy enough to start mucking with his mind. Considering Obi-Wan's defensive leaning style, I see this as viable. Zannah's attack wouldn't need to be lethal, just enough to pause him to Bane could take him out. After that it's pretty much over. The other option would be Zannah holding off Windu long enough for Bane to crack Obi-Wan. I see Zannah as able to hold off Windu longer than Obi-Wan could hold off Bane (mostly based on styles vs. ability). Bane is quick and dirty, while Mace is more even handed, and Zannah's shield is better than Obi-Wan's.
I would submit that Kenobi could have absorbed or blocked Sith lightning with his hand, but during his battle against Duku on Genosis he chose not to, instead using his lightsaber to block it simply because it was easier to do so. This would be in line with his emerging practice of Soresu, which focuses on conserving one's energy.
Thanks for watching and for the comment! Glad you enjoyed it.
Zannah did not actually defeat Bane. In his final moments, Bane reached out with the force and invoked the ritual of essence transfer. Although his body was destroyed in the process, he claimed Zannah's body. The fact that Caugnus realized Zannah's left hand began having tremmers after the essence transfer proves this as this was one of the weaknesses Bane began to develop with old age
No it was because Bane's original body had its hand cut off.
Leo Ray How does that explain the tremmers in her hand? Only the life force of his hand transferred? That makes no sense. Also Zannahs overall demeanor changed after the essence transfer, before it she was questioning herself, her decision to take on set harth as an apprentice, her ability to defeat Bane in general. Afterwards she took on Banes obvious confidence in all things dark side. Bane wouldn't want his new apprentice to know of his ability to transfer his life essence to another body. Would be interesting to find out how set harth carried on his training with the holocron!
Or that Bane's life force was having trouble adjusting to having a new hand.
+444ddp he created clones like sidious and survived at least until the yuuzhan vong wars
Are you still taking suggestions? Because I have a few.
Anakin & Obi Wan vs Maul & Savage
Anakin & Obi Wan vs Darth Sidious
Maul and Savage vs Dooku
Clone Wars Maul vs Darth Maul
Anakin and Ashoka vs Dooku
Plo Koon & Shaak Ti vs Anakin and Obi Wan
GOOD SUGESTIONS
This is great, Thank you! :D
great video looking forward to your next:)
I greatly agree with this verdict =) physicality is pretty irrelevant here honestly, it's pretty close to judge cumulatively. Force abilities i'll say Bane and Zannah get the edge, but not significantly, considering Zannah's trump card isn't gonna work out on Mace or Obi-Wan (Mace resisted Sidious' mindfucking, Obi-Wan is someone who only cracked under Maul's taunting, though that was very circumstantial, due to their history, Maul didn't penetrate Obi-Wan's mind, he just lost it in their first TCW duel. As for Mace's trump card, very effective against such blunt expressions of rage as Bane and Zannah. So in terms of raw ability I'd give the Sith the edge, but Mace can answer this and Obi can hold his own. In terms of dueling? Total stomp in the Jedi's favour. Mace > Obi => Bane > Zannah. This is WITHOUT even considering Vapaad. Zannah's Soresu is jelly compared to Obi-Wan who I think in a dueling only scenario could even defeat Bane.
i agree with everything you've said in this video, including Windu's mastery of the blade. But i just can't see Bane being taken down by either masters. The Sithari, the true embodiment to the dark side wouldn't be killed by any other than Yoda. Even then i'd say Yoda would only take the victory because of his versatility and advantage in knowledge of the force
Bane really isn't that powerful
@@idiot3412 Bane surpassed the entire Sith council under Khan after only training for a handful of years and from a late age. Not to mention he scared Githany with his power, someone who had trained with the force her entire life. In the height of his power he fought 2 Jedi masters and a Knight to a standstill, even pushing them back thanks to his orbalisk armour. A lot of people underestimate Bane, and I can only think those people didn’t let the information from Bane’s trilogy truly sink in
@@RM-wy3xn Sorry, that was me choosing bad words. Bane is insanely powerful but firstly, there are a good amount of jedi and sith that are more powerful then Yoda and secondly while Bane is super powerful, so is Obi Wan and espacially Mace
@@idiot3412 so i can agree that there are a handful of Jedi more powerful than Bane. To say otherwise would be an insult to the RO2. But Mace is famous for being one of the most famous swordsman, on par with Dooku, and apparently according to new canon behind Yoda. While I don’t necessarily agree with it, canon is what Disney decides
@@RM-wy3xn Mace is a better swordsman then Yoda. Don't get me wrong, Yoda is definitely more powerful jedi, but Mace has more and better feats
This is awesome versus serious dude
If you do the math she doesn't have much less experience than Bane. She's not a child anymore. She's sparred with the likes of her master and tested her skills in battle against weapons specialists. Early on in her training, Bane even acknowledges that she may NEVER be his equal as a swordsman. This is the primary reason, aside from her natural ability, for her specialization with the defensive Soresu and offensive Sorcery. By the end of DoE she is a Sith master. I think it's all fair game here.
Yarealpoof forgot about Lightsaber Form V that Obi-Wan Kenobi learned.
Skywalker further studied lightsaber skills that he found in a journal left to him by Obi-Wan Kenobi and advanced his abilities.[1] Later, aboard the second Death Star, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, mirroring Vader's Form V technique.
That Mass effect 3 ending music though
It's ok though, It's a epic song.
Great video you should do more like this
I'd like to see more team up battles like this, very cool
saying that Zannah blasted her cousin’s hand off isnt a good showcase to use for her for starters she was a child and was completely untrained the same can be said for the jedi she killed she was angry and lashed out as any child would do she just had a strong connection to the force
Why is there Mass Effect 3 Music?
Why not?
I love all your verses videos if you can can you make a verses video on yoda verses darth vitiate as he was depicted in the book revan
jazzey richardson The MIDGET.
00:00:23 what is the name of the Jedi master 2 to the left of shak tii? He looks like a sepant?
Zana would make Obi-wan go crazy, literally. She's shred through his force defense and place a spell within his mind making him face his greatest fears during a fight.Obi-wan failed on many occasions that his force defense is greatly lacking; reference Darth Tyranus throwing him like a rag doll. Furthermore, Darth Zana beat Bane in a straight-up one-on-one match. That right there indicates that she's far more powerful than Obi-wan. You also understate Darth Zana's almost impenetrable defense with her sabers.
Otherwise, great work and thanks for taking the time to produce this hypothesis.
+Miyamoto Clan Darth Tyrannus is a power house in terms of telekinesis, he was one of the greatest in the Jedi Order before he came a Sith lord. Number 2 Zannah's spells of fear and madness can be dispelled with simple will power, and Obi-wan and Mace have such strong wills that her spells don't have a chance in hell of actually effecting them. Zannah only beat Bane because of her dark side tendrils that she most likely cannot use any where else, and was extremely labor intensive in a dark side Nexus and she was still disarmed by a single handed Bane, Zannah's lightsaber skills are rather pathetic to be honest.
+Josh Campbell It takes much more than simple will power to resist her sorcery, as it took Bane(Who has a stronger will than nearly every being), all of his will and concentration to dispatch them.
PlagueBoy All it took for him was his will power to dispell them and he is not massively more powerful then other beings. Also Obi-wan contended with the most powerful force sensitive in the history of Star Wars, and Mace Windu held off the greatest Sith Lord in all of Star Wars. Zannah has no chance against either of them.
Crazyscotsman After thinking about it for a while, yea I agree...
PlagueBoy Thank you. Now if it was like Darth Bane and Darth Malgus vs Obi-wan and Mace I would go with the Sith.
hmm ehh I skiped to end cause I wanted to know what was your verditic but the way u say it id actually have to agree. I've read the whole bane series and id have to say your right. However bane and zannah could also win this if bane acted as a tank and took on both of them and zanna using her powers to kill them. Together they really were death incarnate. But would they work together.... Bane with armor zannah wasn't complete yet and bane with no armor would he last vs two people..... mace was a master after all. But then again so was bane well kinda ... I don't know man I really say 60/40 60 mace 40 Bane. Really hard one. nice job ill watch whole thing when I get time.
While your right I am annoyed by bane fanboys saying bane will tank and zannah will kill them they forget zannah can't fight for shit her main power is telepathy useless here and dark side tendrils won't work here at best windu will just turn around and chop her in half while obi wans soresu holds of bane and mace will go back and kill bane so I'd say mace+Kenobi 70% chance bane and zannah 30%chance
Lewis Robertson you also forget that Zannah has a almost unbreakable lightsaber defense with her double bladed lightsaber, hard to chop someone in half when she parries your every strike... you act like she's still a mere apprentice.
ShadowsMentor I know but vapped is said to be able to break through the guard of a master of soresu plus zannah goes to block the most predictable strike first and vapped is just random swings and I doubt zannah would react fast enough to block all maces strikes so I may have phrased it wrong but I stand by it that mace would kill zannah
Lewis Robertson oh i have no doubt that windu would have won in a 1v1 fight with zannah on equal ground, but i was talking about the 2v2
ShadowsMentor it pretty much is 1 vs 1 as obi wans defense is sufficient to hold out against bane for at least enough time for windu to take out zannah
Nice work!
Even before engaging this epic duel, I had sufficient knowledge of Mace Windu, Obi-wan Kenobi, and Darth Bane and Darth Zannah from they're three book trilogy. I felt both Jedi Masters had a definitive edge on their opponents. After going into the video, this guy explained the strengths and weaknesses of both. While it's true Master Windu's legendary Vapaad is not a guarantee win against all Sith, he explained this to a varying degrees. Why it won't work against Dooku, who did not heavily rely on the dark side to boost his already powerful strength and speed. Vapaad was designed for Windu to face off against Emperor Palpatine and Darth Bane. These are men who rely heavily on the dark side to enhance they're abilities to unfathomable heights. Mace using shatterpoint would be the decisive outcome. One could argue that Bane could out think Windu, I beg to differ, why? Windu was no slouch,, I am willing to bet Mace would keep Bane so engaged, he simply wouldn't have enough free time too think. Master Wind's fighting style and Vapaad was designed to defeat the powerful kind of Sith Lord Bane became.
Rest in peace, Count Dooku! :(
can you and the rest the other guys each pick your best darth and pit them in a big battle royal?
Great video! :D
Has anyone noticed how Zannah's lightsaber is strikingly similar to Darth Maul's and what the hell is that image at 44:04?
no its not idiot its just a double sided light saber that is the only similarity idiot
If Zannah can manage to put enough distance between her and Kenobi then she'd be able to unleash her sorcery at him, and there are demons that Kenobi never buried, especially Qui-Gon's death. She manages to succeed to a degree against Bane with her sorcery, and he's buried all his old fears. If Zannah can distract Kenobi and use it to her advantage while Bane holds off Windu then the Sith can certainly make it difficult for the Jedi even if they don't win.
Saying Zannah can prob only use dark side tendrils in specific locations since she didnt use them in her first fight with a light saber-less Bane is flawed logic. She didnt she her other sorcery tricks either after Bane tricked her into fighting with her light saber and no sorcery period.
True. But that's not the only reason for my belief. The text of Dynasty of Evil was. It said she as drawing on buried power.
GreyJedi91 Buried within her
Not buried within her buried for centuries in the dirt
Well put, how do you think it would have ended if they went against the other member?
I appreciate that.
I admit I was worried for Mace and Obi-Wan.
What's the name of the song that plays during the Avatar clips???
Love the music at the end were is it from and can you do a general grievous vs savaga opress or per vizsla or any of these three plesa.
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I don't check my comments on older videos very often. The music at the end is called "Odennal Pi" from E.S. Posthumus. Hope that helps.
It duds thank you and if you can do one with savage vs grievous or per vizsla any of those three if you can ?
To my opinion Windu and Bane would have engage each other while Kenobi and Zhana would have wait for the opening to strike. I think Bane would have taken the advantage and Kenobi would jump in to help Windu, giving the opportunity to Zhana to cast a spell. I don't think the jedis will get injure from t, but it will force them to split their attention, letting Bane the path open for Bane to kill one of his opponents. And then it will be a 2 siths vs 1 jedi, and i don't think Kenobi or Windu can match vs the two at the same time.
Sorry for the bad english, i'm just a french viewer, anyway: nice video.
I would like to see some videos with Revan in them. Perhaps Revan vs Sidious?
You need to link your music. i loved plenty of the songs you used.
great video
Great job
I would really love to see a 1 vs 1 video of Dooku vs Windu. Why has no one done this yet? They are my 2 fav force users of the clone wars and both excellent with a saber.
Antoine Bandele has one now.
Bane and Zannah should take this. Though Windu would beat either Zannah or Bane 1v1 both are more than capable of putting up a good fight. Obi Wan however has force defences that are way to weak to withstand Bane or Zannahs force abilities. Dooku has casually ragdolled Obi Wan multiple time and Maul has ragdolled Obi Wan multiple times as well. This is despite neither having tk feats close to Bane and Through scaling we know zannah has at least comparable levels of ability with tk to bane if not superior.
Obi Wan gets overwhelmed with force abilities quickly then Windu gets overwhelmed by the combined might of Zannah and Bane
question bane vs vader whats your opinion?
The body didn't have to be his like his original body but one that is fairly close to it (ex tall, muscular, etc) and Zanneths body is not even close to his old one. Thus the assumption can be made that if he controlled Zanneths body he would transfer to a cloned body like his own as soon as possible. Also he would tell Congus that he survived. This is because Bane's ultimate goal is not power for himself but the success of the rule of two. He would tell her so that if she became the next
This shall be my bed time story for tonight 😴 😌 😆
Yeah i agree I also think that the jedi would have won. According to me Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker are the greatest swordsmen of all time. Could you make a versus video between them?
I agree. If he had the orbalisks things would be quite different.