I'm sure you could. Having heard about electric boats, I cut my engine a few times to simulate electric drive. It was beautiful to slip along silently.@@stuartmorgan3654
I've got a 50-foot narrowboat (6'10") they built for me which I'm still fitting out. It obviously can't generate nearly as much solar or collect as much rainwater as a huge 65-foot long 13-foot wide-beam, but it's still a huge improvement over my last diesel boat. It needs a generator to provide much of the electricity from late October to March, but I run a cleaner-than-petrol LPG generator. Even with running a generator for a few months it's much better for the environment than running a diesel engine for propulsion and electricity all year round. The fire only needs to be lit every few days to top up the hot water and extra heat is stored in the floor. This heats up every room, since the whole boat has a floor, whereas usually a boat fire only really heats one room which is why some boats have multiple stoves or diesel-fired central heating which are turned on every day, with many boat fires never burning out from October until April. Planning a build like this makes the boat less reliant on finding diesel fuel, petrol, wood, and water points. You still need to empty bins, get food and store your poop for composting, so it's not completely "off-grid".
At 77, I work converting RVs from fuel burning generators to solar and lithium batteries. The large "Class A" rigs have NO need of generator back up systems - all solar, all the time. Air conditioned in summer, electric heated water powered floors in winter. All domestic appliances, including fridge, freezer, washer and dryer plus ovens and coffee makers -ALL from solar. I live in one of the rigs, full time and commuter in my electric trike that is also solar charged. Thank you for this video. BTW, 75% of fuel used on an RV is for generators.
Reference your remarks on solar doing the hard work for the domestic draw ... presumably you live somewhere NOT in UK? Solar power generation in this neck of the world suffers from "weather" getting in the way. And if not the weather then overhanging greenery on the banks doing the shadow thing. Plus we suffer, occasionally, a free gift of Saharan dust ... and guano ... and aphid shit (which can soft set like epoxy resin). That said my mere 560W of solar, when free of the above, via MPPT controller, does keep battery banks at or above the magic 12.6V overnight. Only current draw from batteries when on shore power is lighting and various pumps. Mains fridge draws 0.6A ... but when cruising you're looking at 12A through the inverter. Fortunately fridge isn't on all the time. Relying solely on solar for energy production (on a narrowboat boat in UK) is not quite so straightforward as a year round thing.
As you mention aircon, I assume you are in a warmer country than here in the UK. Our main loads are heating and lighting. The peak of which tend to coincide with short days and low sun angles. And our famously overcast/cloudy skies. Also these people are using their solar for traction too. Though I suspect they are travelling short distances during what passes for our summer.
At last! I’ve long wondered why there aren’t more of these, particularly conversions as traditional narrow boats are designed to carry heavy loads and have loads of roof space! I love the thermal mass development as well. What a great project!
Merely search YT and all will be revealed. There's hundreds of DIY projects on the topic. A lot of projects might be considered more technically advanced in that an electric motor/generator is connected via a belt drive to the prop shaft. This means the motor can be driven by the diesel engine to act as a generator for charging the battery bank when the weather is not suitable for solar charging. The most complex bit might be considered as the sorting out of the motor control system.
The majority of people living on boats on the U.K’s river and canal network are doing so because of monetary reasons. To presume they all could convert to electric is preposterous.
@@FriendlyFecker Quite so. I gather quite a few permanent moorers (in a marina or on an arm) are in receipt of housing benefits. Probably cheaper than offering council accommodation??? That said there are plenty of very affluent people who choose to retire to a narrowboat and price isn't necessarily a problem, as we have seen. A recent trend has been for electric narrowboats to have the option of a diesel generator in a sound proof cabinet, with hospital silencer, to charge a huge bank of lithiums in a vertical rack. Can't quite see how that arrangement reduces the CO2 but that's some narrow boat builders for you. Very, very recently I was nattering with a narrowboat engineer on the topic of hydrogen fuel cells. He mentioned some outfit was in the process of designing a propulsion system. That said the method of getting fuelled up hasn't been determined as yet. Anyway, plenty of cash on the cut, but you might not see it.
Had a nice smile on this one, we walked a section of Thames Path in the middle of the year and went past this boat and those double-deckers also seen on the film. I even have 3 pix of it moored up on the opposite bank! Interesting they chose lead-acid batteries, I guess weight helps towards the ballast and if second hand forklift ones then a lot cheaper.
Great episode, and a fascinating project. I had a holiday on an electric narrowboat and it was so much better than the smelly old diesel version. So much quieter and left no slick of oil and diesel behind it.
OK, professional engineer here, a fan of solar and off grid, with an experimental solar/battery house system.... This case study looks to be for a mostly static houseboat on a river. But they (the show) are selling the idea as a solution to all inland watercraft. I have looked into the idea of a fully electric narrowboat, specifically for the UK canal system. And I'm sorry, but I just can't get the figures to work. Other than for a limited number of boaters. The majority of boats on the canals are standard width, so half the solar potential of this boat. The killer is, that there are extended periods of the year where solar generation is not even going to cover daily domestic useage. And that would be in an ideal mooring. Often you will be moored under trees, because that was the only spot available. (It is November now, and I am seeing ~2kWhrs daily generation from my 4.5kW house array, which is ideally sited. And it's been like this for weeks. 20minutes use of an air fryer and boil a kettle a few times, and that would be my charge gone.) Add to that, you are required to move every 14 days, when your mooring time limit is up. And when you move, you don't know where your next mooring spot is going to be, so how far you need to move. Running out of charge really isn't an option in this situation. I can only see this working for someone with a home mooring/marina. And only go cruising in the summer, when charge allows. And accept that you may get trapped by things like canal/lock closures. For year round cruising, a backup generator really is going to be required. I do love the idea of the ballast as a mass heater. Might work even better with a rocket heater as the burner. (Though that is still burning stuff....)
You are right with the numbers, it suits us because of how intensively we use our boat. Yes, at the moment, the tech is not there to support narrowboat continuous cruising, at least not affordably. But just because it doesn't, doesn't mean it's a bad idea all round. I think a big area of debate is what to use for heating and cooking- we've stuck with LPG for that because of the high currents required and we use the electric for propulsion and lighting. If like the guys in the video you are doing everything electrically, you do need that widebeam roof! As for using ballast as a thermal sink (Heated up by whatever means), it could be done but would need a load more insulation in the bilge than most boats have: Its pretty cold under the waterline.
@@alanbeckett4 Heat pumps might work here, drawing heat from the canal. The COP could be quite high. Though I still think that the limited surface area of narrow boats (and probably wide beams as well) covered in solar PV is going to struggle to drive even this.
I lived on my houseboat for six years and I loved it. BUT, heating was the issue that finally drove us off. Now we have rocket mass heaters. 18 tons of concrete in the floor as thermal mass and as ballast is a GREAT idea. I may think about living aboard again now.
Many years ago we hired a narrow boat on the Llangollen canal, people told us it was great "sailing through the quiet countryside", well the countryside was great, but the constant noise of the engine was a big disappointment, an electric boat would be great.
If you want to go electric narrow boating try Cafwincruises in in Worcestershire, Warwickshire & Gloucestershire. Or Castle Narrowboats Church Road Wharf, Gilwern, Monmouthshire canal
What a mind blowing idea! This man should definitely write a book of how he/they researched the necessary materials and innovations to build this unbelievable futuristic boat.
Composting toilets aren't quite composting toilets ... urine separating is a more apt description. Even in summer the "dirt box" is at too low a temperature for true composting to occur. Anyone who can be arsed ... can search on YT and find a "lot" of videos on the topic. In much warmer climes than can be found in UK then a truly excellent way to dispose of solid human waste. The liquid can be diluted and used on the garden. But, not food plants. Google will explain all.
Exactly I couldn't agree with you about that, and I'm thinking of importing a Narrow boat or Yacht from there to the United States like in Florida where the Sun shines 300 day's a year lol
For a fully fitted one ready to drive away you'd be looking at 220k-250k. For a Shell, basically ready to drive with solar, batteries, engine, windows, engine etc installed, but WITHOUT any interior construction or installations you'd be looking at 110k-130k.
I wondered where this is, so I tooled up and down the Thames on G-maps. Hampton! And in Streetview (from the opposite bank) there was the boat herself. Feeling strangely chuffed.
This is one of the nicest boat builds I've seen, I have been looking to purchase a boat for a long time as I think its a super eco friendly way to live. It must have cost him an absolute fortune!!!
Nothing to stop you searching for narrowboat builders and asking them if they will build you an electrically powered boat and then discussing what you would like included in the build. Would suggest most will entertain building an electrically powered boat as "business is business", even if they have to sub out the supply, installation and commissioning of the propulsion system. After all a boatbuilder doesn't become an expert in electric boats overnight. However ... As a quick aside there is a channel on YT covering a boat build which is going to be powered by a diesel engine. The boatyard in questions claiming they are experiencing problems in getting materials, even the diesel engine. To us cynics this suggests the boat yard is "on stop" ref obtaining credit, or, their suppliers themselves are "on stop" ref obtaining credit. Not necessarily their fault as customers don't always keep up the required stage payments or simply "vanish", leaving substantial debts to the supplier or boatyard. Would further suggest that anyone looking to have a boat built should ask their bank if it would be possible to determine if "a" putative builder is in financial difficulties, again to repeat, through no fault of their own. The boat I am referring to seems to be plagued with delays ... and reasons for said delays seem "questionable".
Fascinating episode, thanks for filming / sharing it! ☺️ Technically it’s not all-electric though as they burn wood for heating … presumably 6kW of solar wouldn’t have been enough to run electric underfloor heating as well … Interesting to see them using lead acid too - but it makes total sense. I was amazed how he said they have to add ballast to keep the boat sitting low in the water, I’d never really thought of that!
Its so just so clearly superior and so obviously better than using a traditional boat it makes you question why we ever built boats or would want a boat powered by fossil fuels.
Gorgeous boat and home. I would love to see the systems side (the water collection and filtration, the end-to-end toilet system, the motor to propeller transmission system, food waste, etc). How many people live aboard and are needed to operate the boat? Yes, "How to..." book and videos would captivate.
Thanks for the video Bobby and hats off to the owner for the build. Good ole' lead acid, superceded now but after 14 years our off grid lead acid home battery is still going strong. Would be interested to know initial cost compared to similar off the shelf boat and then ongoing maintenance/ running cost. 👍🔋🇦🇺.
@@ElectricCarAustralia Yet the boat was full of 2V traction batteries cobbled up to provide two 48V banks. It might have been useful to have seen the motor and control gear too. Using very heavy lead acid cells can be useful in that they provide ballast. There are many, many boats which use lithium cells of course but the cost of a service bank is eye watering. Plus the merest hint of thermal runaway deters a lot of builders, not just the cost. I gather that the BSS outfit (imagine an entity who do a sort of "any" boat MOT, every four years, and without a pass certificate you can't renew your licence, to navigate, or get insurance) which is attached to CRT has yet to take a view on lithium batteries aboard boats (when used for propulsion). BSS have a dynamic review system which means rules and regs can change at any time if deemed necessary. You can be sure that if lithium cells became an issue then the insurance companies would be "reluctant" to provide cover. Much like the vehicle covering insurance companies we see today. Lithium batteries really are a bad idea in cars now that the insurers are gathering data on how easily a battery pack can be damaged following even a "minor" collision. We might see ditto for home battery packs once the actuaries working for insurers calculate the risk. Naturally I speculate at the moment.
Bobby, there's a good channel you should take a look at - Narrowboat Life Unlocked - they are on their 2nd Narrowboat home now and the latest is electric with lipo batteries & solar. They also have a back up generator but move around a lot so that sort of makes sense with less roof space & not many places to plug in on the canal system.
A houseboat would be a great use case for a heat pump; it'd so easy to pull heat out of that huge source that you're floating around on! I can only dream about efficiency like that with my air source system 😅
Interesting use of lead acid batteries rather than anything lithium. May as well when you need to add ballast anyway! Have to wonder how long they'd last though. Lead acid aren't great for longevity.
Those 2V tubular style batteries have a much longer lifetime and more cycles than regular lead acid, and are more expensive. Mine lasted 13 years in an off grid cabin, but my new LiFeP batteries outperform them in every way.
Hi Drunken hobo , these batteries aren't your usual lead acid batteries but rather industrial traction cells , and assuming your most regular use is the top 20 % of charge they are rated to 5000 cycles and a third of the cost of lithium .
It’s worth pointing out the vast majority of the UK canal system is not designed for navigation by wide beam craft. Some recently commissioned narrowboats do have electric motors but either require charging off the main grid or have a diesel generator to charge the battery bank. The concept is great for wide beam craft.
A surface water heat pump system could be used for heating in winter. The water temperature is almost constant and a simple heat pump can supply 4-5 kWh of heat for hot water and heating from 1 kWh of electricity.
Was this system built before Lithium batteries? I believe you only get about 1/2 the stated power out of lead batteries and Lithium batteries are about 1/4 the weight. Cheers
Hi Scott , these aren't normal lead acid but rather traction cells which gives 80% usable , and these boats require ballast to keep them in the water so Lithuim weight advantages were negated as lead forms part of the balast. and obviously the cost difference is huge
Don't forget yo have to have a CRT license, then there are mooring fees, and you have to take the boat out of the water every three years for the equivalent of an MOT. It all costs a lot more than you'd expect!
The "MOT" you're referring to is the Boat Safety Scheme inspection and it's done with the boat in the water. You'll only need to lift her out to repaint, and depending on the paint you use that can be every 7-8 years.
- The inspector cannot do the external hull examination with the boat in the water! Steel hulls have to be ultra-sounded - looking for thin spots or corrosion, and grp hulls have to be examined for laminations going porous. @@AlexOnABoat
@@hamshackleton You are confused. BSS doesn't cover condition of hull. The main thrust these days is gas safety, which includes having CO monitors and adequate ventilation. Plus the requirements change quite often. The last inspection I had the inspector was mad for ensuring all gas pipes were properly secured every foot or so. Might be something else in a year or two. Lithium batteries storage, as in position of, might be something they consider some day. Hull condition is visually checked every time hull is blacked but not always with ultrasound kit. If your hull goes orange after coming out of the water then a lot of pitting. The owner is advised on the state of the anodes too. Some insurance companies require a marine surveyor to check the hull when a boat reaches 30 years old. (Some companies may have different requirements.)? They want to know about pitting and thickness of hull plates. Some insurance companies include a River and Canal Rescue membership (Bronze level) for "their" peace of mind. Insurance companies very "conservative" when they receive a claim.
If I built a boat like this I'd still have 'to shore' hook up for electricity and water on the 'just in case' principal (a protracted period of heavy cloud = little charge into the battery bank, and extended period of drought = no rain water into holding tank) as you can never be sure of weather conditions.
Thames Water Authority. But thanks for the reminder. 😂 Edit: actually he did sing Port Authority on a show in the USA, but the original was Thames Water, which is more appropriate here. 😊
I find it quite curious how they say they're trying to be as green as they can and then proceed to show that, rather than a heat pump, they have a wood burning stove.
At least a wood burner is largely carbon neutral compared with fossil fuels, but I do agree with you; it would be nice to see an air or water source heat pump, but I guess it's future-proofed and one could easily be added at a later date with the hydronic underfloor heating design.
Despite a heat pump being more efficient than straight electrical heating it's still a large consumer of energy ... more than those solar panels can provide in UK conditions.
Hi Lua , we are working on a water Sourse heat pump so hopefully not to far away , saying that there isn't enough winter sun to heat the boat so need an alternative like wind ( experimenting as we speak )
@@thamessolarelectric3662 Hello, and sorry that I was rather harsh. I meant that this type of thing makes me wonder what's the rest of the story. A water source heat pump can be an interesting thing to read about, but I didn't about whether it's cloudy when it's cold often. That amount of panels might be enough for a water source heat pump on a rather sunny day, but I don't know a lot about British climate. In regards of wind, however, I would worry it might destabilise the boat, particularly if the turbine rests on a high pole. Have you considered hydro power? Might be plausible if the boat spends more time anchored than travelling.
No - narrowboats get their name honestly... they're only 6ft 11inches wide, iirc... anything wider than that is classed as a 'wide-beam - including this vessel.
Obviously, not every type of watercraft can carry the means to recharge itself, though charge cells continue to improve. A good solution would be to provide dockside charging, preferably from renewable sources.
A good portion of canals are to narrow for wide beams. I wonder if this load out would work on a narrow boat. Also the cost of this new build boat would be a lot more than most people’s boats.
Boat fuel exposure cancer rate is 1.3 in 1 according to the EPA. That's 1.3 instances of cancer per person exposed to it. Changing to electric only is HUGE.
The outakes were mildly hilarious. My only observations were you could of got more solar on the roof and shift half the batteries forward to keep the boat level next time. 👍. How long did that project take?. SUPER
The water tank up front would provide the ballast, if it weren't empty (sounded like they filmed after a dry spell, so the tank was running low - which meant a lack of counter-balance in the front)
we have only ever had a couple of inches of snow on the roof ( doesn't snow hear much anymore ) but we were amazed that enough light passed through those 2 inches to produce about 350w from the 7000w
Love it! So clever! And think how useful it will be when all the ice caps melt and the sea level rises to new heights! Swap the lead-acid for more modern batteries, and you'll really have a winner. I wonder what kind of regulations an HOA applies to such floating homes. Do they have to pay a monthly fee for a particular berth…?
Yes, you have to pay if you want a permanent mooring (pay through the nose, around London)... but you can also get a 'continuous cruising' licence with is far cheaper - but which requires you to move (at least a few miles) every 2 weeks, iirc.
Lead acid are ideal ... they need the ballast, they have the space so no need to use the much more expensive lithium ion. Check out the cost of a 100kWh lithium ion battery pack!
@@thamessolarelectric3662 😂😂😂😂 Or you can do both. Owners of moorings happy to take you cash any day of the week. And, CRT (don't know about EA) are about to impose a surcharge on continuous cruisers without permanent moorings.
Yes, regular cleaning will be needed but much more accessible than house panels. I'm surprised they didn't choose a slight angle. Easy to change I would have thought. The sun in the UK is never truly vertical anyway.
If these ‘industrial’ lead acid batteries are so brilliant why aren’t they being used as power banks in bricks and mortar properties ? Standard leisure batteries last between four and seven years on an average narrowboat and that’s without running them right down as you would if you were using them for propulsion. If the eco loonies are coming for boat liveaboards be prepared for a fight because battery power isn’t the answer.
Lead acid batteries last a lot longer than you suggest. Lithium cells are used because mugs believe they're "better". What is often overlooked is the cost. And unless lithiums are kept warm then they can be tricky to charge them at very low temperatures as can be experienced in UK. Doubtless LiFePo4 cells (used in narrowboats, not Lithium ion cells) are excellent value in warmer climes. Ditto solar power, nothing like enough sunshine in UK,as averaged over a year, to cater for a narrowboat's needs so to speak. Granted you can cover the roof in panels but still not enough room on a narrowboat roof. Wide beams are something else altogether and might just about cope if you were frugal and you had a lot of panels and batteries and you were away from overhanging trees and high hedges along each side of the canal. Finding an unshaded spot is easier said than done. That brings its own problems with (over) heating the boat and panels. The hotter a panel becomes the less efficient they are. Having panels bonded directly to the roof can be a problem when you consider by lunchtime on a sunny day the roof is too hot to touch comfortably. Some boaters cobble up a roof drench using the water as a heat sink and evaporation as well as. The trouble there is that the submerged pump filter must be flushed daily to wash out the silt (held in suspension in the water column). Some use a dehumidifier unit to cool the interior but only practical when on shore power. Naturally in time, as the solar kit becomes more efficient and the cost of batteries remains "reasonable" then we will see more boats abandoning diesel engines. The above said it may be of interest that hydrogen fuel cells are now a possibility for a canal boat. "HydrogenAfloat" have a website which might be worth a squint.
Well thought out boat owner . Ex South African man to boot.👍👍🙏🙏
Beautifully done - and a great way to avoid horrible neighbours.
This gentleman should publish a "How To" book. Might just pay for his boat !
Totally agree, this guy has nailed it ! I'd love to live on something like this. Where would i park my EV on it though? 😅
I was just thinking exactly that I would love a list of equipment used
Agree this guy has 5 years of research in his head. If keep notes that would be worth a lot. He could even consult.
Park an e-scooter somewhere
Same
Way to go. I lived on a boat for 18 months. The throb of the diesel is quite nice, but silence is better.
I'm sure you could put haptics in to simulate the thrum of an engine.
I'm sure you could. Having heard about electric boats, I cut my engine a few times to simulate electric drive. It was beautiful to slip along silently.@@stuartmorgan3654
I've got a 50-foot narrowboat (6'10") they built for me which I'm still fitting out. It obviously can't generate nearly as much solar or collect as much rainwater as a huge 65-foot long 13-foot wide-beam, but it's still a huge improvement over my last diesel boat. It needs a generator to provide much of the electricity from late October to March, but I run a cleaner-than-petrol LPG generator. Even with running a generator for a few months it's much better for the environment than running a diesel engine for propulsion and electricity all year round.
The fire only needs to be lit every few days to top up the hot water and extra heat is stored in the floor. This heats up every room, since the whole boat has a floor, whereas usually a boat fire only really heats one room which is why some boats have multiple stoves or diesel-fired central heating which are turned on every day, with many boat fires never burning out from October until April.
Planning a build like this makes the boat less reliant on finding diesel fuel, petrol, wood, and water points. You still need to empty bins, get food and store your poop for composting, so it's not completely "off-grid".
At 77, I work converting RVs from fuel burning generators to solar and lithium batteries. The large "Class A" rigs have NO need of generator back up systems - all solar, all the time. Air conditioned in summer, electric heated water powered floors in winter. All domestic appliances, including fridge, freezer, washer and dryer plus ovens and coffee makers -ALL from solar. I live in one of the rigs, full time and commuter in my electric trike that is also solar charged. Thank you for this video. BTW, 75% of fuel used on an RV is for generators.
Reference your remarks on solar doing the hard work for the domestic draw ... presumably you live somewhere NOT in UK?
Solar power generation in this neck of the world suffers from "weather" getting in the way.
And if not the weather then overhanging greenery on the banks doing the shadow thing.
Plus we suffer, occasionally, a free gift of Saharan dust ... and guano ... and aphid shit (which can soft set like epoxy resin).
That said my mere 560W of solar, when free of the above, via MPPT controller, does keep battery banks at or above the magic 12.6V overnight.
Only current draw from batteries when on shore power is lighting and various pumps.
Mains fridge draws 0.6A ... but when cruising you're looking at 12A through the inverter. Fortunately fridge isn't on all the time.
Relying solely on solar for energy production (on a narrowboat boat in UK) is not quite so straightforward as a year round thing.
As you mention aircon, I assume you are in a warmer country than here in the UK.
Our main loads are heating and lighting. The peak of which tend to coincide with short days and low sun angles. And our famously overcast/cloudy skies.
Also these people are using their solar for traction too. Though I suspect they are travelling short distances during what passes for our summer.
At last! I’ve long wondered why there aren’t more of these, particularly conversions as traditional narrow boats are designed to carry heavy loads and have loads of roof space! I love the thermal mass development as well. What a great project!
Merely search YT and all will be revealed.
There's hundreds of DIY projects on the topic.
A lot of projects might be considered more technically advanced in that an electric motor/generator is connected via a belt drive to the prop shaft.
This means the motor can be driven by the diesel engine to act as a generator for charging the battery bank when the weather is not suitable for solar charging.
The most complex bit might be considered as the sorting out of the motor control system.
The majority of people living on boats on the U.K’s river and canal network are doing so because of monetary reasons. To presume they all could convert to electric is preposterous.
@@FriendlyFecker
Quite so. I gather quite a few permanent moorers (in a marina or on an arm) are in receipt of housing benefits. Probably cheaper than offering council accommodation???
That said there are plenty of very affluent people who choose to retire to a narrowboat and price isn't necessarily a problem, as we have seen.
A recent trend has been for electric narrowboats to have the option of a diesel generator in a sound proof cabinet, with hospital silencer, to charge a huge bank of lithiums in a vertical rack.
Can't quite see how that arrangement reduces the CO2 but that's some narrow boat builders for you.
Very, very recently I was nattering with a narrowboat engineer on the topic of hydrogen fuel cells.
He mentioned some outfit was in the process of designing a propulsion system.
That said the method of getting fuelled up hasn't been determined as yet.
Anyway, plenty of cash on the cut, but you might not see it.
Had a nice smile on this one, we walked a section of Thames Path in the middle of the year and went past this boat and those double-deckers also seen on the film. I even have 3 pix of it moored up on the opposite bank!
Interesting they chose lead-acid batteries, I guess weight helps towards the ballast and if second hand forklift ones then a lot cheaper.
Great episode, and a fascinating project. I had a holiday on an electric narrowboat and it was so much better than the smelly old diesel version. So much quieter and left no slick of oil and diesel behind it.
What a humble and intelligent guy and his boat is amazing.
Thanks so much
Diesel powered boats will be around for a long time; there are still steam powered ones on U.K. canals.
Like the outtakes, makes it worth staying and watching the vid till the end.
Hope you keep it as a “feature.”
OK, professional engineer here, a fan of solar and off grid, with an experimental solar/battery house system....
This case study looks to be for a mostly static houseboat on a river. But they (the show) are selling the idea as a solution to all inland watercraft.
I have looked into the idea of a fully electric narrowboat, specifically for the UK canal system. And I'm sorry, but I just can't get the figures to work. Other than for a limited number of boaters.
The majority of boats on the canals are standard width, so half the solar potential of this boat.
The killer is, that there are extended periods of the year where solar generation is not even going to cover daily domestic useage. And that would be in an ideal mooring. Often you will be moored under trees, because that was the only spot available.
(It is November now, and I am seeing ~2kWhrs daily generation from my 4.5kW house array, which is ideally sited. And it's been like this for weeks. 20minutes use of an air fryer and boil a kettle a few times, and that would be my charge gone.)
Add to that, you are required to move every 14 days, when your mooring time limit is up. And when you move, you don't know where your next mooring spot is going to be, so how far you need to move. Running out of charge really isn't an option in this situation.
I can only see this working for someone with a home mooring/marina. And only go cruising in the summer, when charge allows. And accept that you may get trapped by things like canal/lock closures.
For year round cruising, a backup generator really is going to be required.
I do love the idea of the ballast as a mass heater. Might work even better with a rocket heater as the burner. (Though that is still burning stuff....)
You are right with the numbers, it suits us because of how intensively we use our boat. Yes, at the moment, the tech is not there to support narrowboat continuous cruising, at least not affordably. But just because it doesn't, doesn't mean it's a bad idea all round. I think a big area of debate is what to use for heating and cooking- we've stuck with LPG for that because of the high currents required and we use the electric for propulsion and lighting. If like the guys in the video you are doing everything electrically, you do need that widebeam roof! As for using ballast as a thermal sink (Heated up by whatever means), it could be done but would need a load more insulation in the bilge than most boats have: Its pretty cold under the waterline.
@@alanbeckett4 Heat pumps might work here, drawing heat from the canal. The COP could be quite high.
Though I still think that the limited surface area of narrow boats (and probably wide beams as well) covered in solar PV is going to struggle to drive even this.
Loving the outtakes! Well done to these guys on their build. Fantastic work if you’ve got the money.
I lived on the same boat yard as Ryan and Hayley as they built it.. lovely couple and amazing boat
Thanks so much Nick , how are you doing ?
Ooooh, I'm jealous!
And having lived with a composting loo for several years I heartily and strongly recommend them!
I lived on my houseboat for six years and I loved it. BUT, heating was the issue that finally drove us off. Now we have rocket mass heaters. 18 tons of concrete in the floor as thermal mass and as ballast is a GREAT idea. I may think about living aboard again now.
Very cool. Concrete heated floor is a good idea.
Many years ago we hired a narrow boat on the Llangollen canal, people told us it was great "sailing through the quiet countryside", well the countryside was great, but the constant noise of the engine was a big disappointment, an electric boat would be great.
If you want to go electric narrow boating try Cafwincruises in in Worcestershire, Warwickshire & Gloucestershire. Or Castle Narrowboats Church Road Wharf, Gilwern, Monmouthshire canal
absolutely amazing boat, the inside is bigger than most 1 bed flats nowadays. Would love to live on that.
Amazing boat, looks so peaceful.
This is an absolutely outstanding build. Bravo!
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
What a mind blowing idea! This man should definitely write a book of how he/they researched the necessary materials and innovations to build this unbelievable futuristic boat.
Thank you so much
Robert needs to look into "tiny house" living where composting toilets are very popular.
Composting toilets aren't quite composting toilets ... urine separating is a more apt description.
Even in summer the "dirt box" is at too low a temperature for true composting to occur.
Anyone who can be arsed ... can search on YT and find a "lot" of videos on the topic.
In much warmer climes than can be found in UK then a truly excellent way to dispose of solid human waste.
The liquid can be diluted and used on the garden. But, not food plants.
Google will explain all.
That boat would be a dream, I hope one day to be able to do the same
Great video, Captain! I am the Captain of a large Cape Size (LOA 298 mtrs) vessel, I would love to sail on such a Nice Lady!
Thanks so much Captain
Exactly I couldn't agree with you about that, and I'm thinking of importing a Narrow boat or Yacht from there to the United States like in Florida where the Sun shines 300 day's a year lol
Best long boat I’ve seen
Love it. (I'd also love to know more about the costs involved. A wonderful project but I can't imagine it was cheap.)
For a fully fitted one ready to drive away you'd be looking at 220k-250k. For a Shell, basically ready to drive with solar, batteries, engine, windows, engine etc installed, but WITHOUT any interior construction or installations you'd be looking at 110k-130k.
It's quite the understatement, but this is a wonderful boat! Well done
Absolutely stunning and a seeming no-brainer given the advantages of living on the canals.
I wondered where this is, so I tooled up and down the Thames on G-maps. Hampton! And in Streetview (from the opposite bank) there was the boat herself. Feeling strangely chuffed.
This is one of the nicest boat builds I've seen, I have been looking to purchase a boat for a long time as I think its a super eco friendly way to live. It must have cost him an absolute fortune!!!
Nothing to stop you searching for narrowboat builders and asking them if they will build you an electrically powered boat and then discussing what you would like included in the build.
Would suggest most will entertain building an electrically powered boat as "business is business", even if they have to sub out the supply, installation and commissioning of the propulsion system.
After all a boatbuilder doesn't become an expert in electric boats overnight.
However ...
As a quick aside there is a channel on YT covering a boat build which is going to be powered by a diesel engine.
The boatyard in questions claiming they are experiencing problems in getting materials, even the diesel engine.
To us cynics this suggests the boat yard is "on stop" ref obtaining credit, or, their
suppliers themselves are "on stop" ref obtaining credit.
Not necessarily their fault as customers don't always keep up the required stage payments or simply "vanish", leaving substantial debts to the supplier or boatyard.
Would further suggest that anyone looking to have a boat built should ask their bank if it would be possible to determine if "a" putative builder is in financial difficulties, again to repeat, through no fault of their own.
The boat I am referring to seems to be plagued with delays ... and reasons for said delays seem "questionable".
If one day all of my cash stoped having to go towards rent this is what i would try and build (maybe a 70ft narrowbeam for preffrence in the UK)
This is plain and simply cool.
Fascinating episode, thanks for filming / sharing it! ☺️
Technically it’s not all-electric though as they burn wood for heating … presumably 6kW of solar wouldn’t have been enough to run electric underfloor heating as well …
Interesting to see them using lead acid too - but it makes total sense. I was amazed how he said they have to add ballast to keep the boat sitting low in the water, I’d never really thought of that!
Pwedeng pwede at pwedeng tirahan, pwedeng permanente kaso kailangan may maliit na bangka para maka lapit sa pupuntahan
Excellent episode!
Such a brilliant guy, love his boat, so we'll thought out.
Well done guy, You have made something special and something you enjoy, thanks for sharing
one of my favourite movies ever is "No Country for Old Men"
Absolutely amazing job!
Looks like a stress free life, enjoy
Kryten has come a long way since RED DWARF. Definitely my best character of the show.
Lovely cells those old fork lift truck lead acids, I bet they will outlast almost anything made even today. Great boat, well done!
Marvellous. A few more stats would be nice. What a boat 😍
That is most excellent 👌🏼
Its so just so clearly superior and so obviously better than using a traditional boat it makes you question why we ever built boats or would want a boat powered by fossil fuels.
Bloody good work
Living Big in a Tiny House would like a word with you Robert. 😂
This is great. Amazing.
What an impressive guy and boat - great presentation - thanks 👏👏
Thank you
Gorgeous boat and home. I would love to see the systems side (the water collection and filtration, the end-to-end toilet system, the motor to propeller transmission system, food waste, etc). How many people live aboard and are needed to operate the boat? Yes, "How to..." book and videos would captivate.
If I had to live in the UK I'd do so in a Narrowboat.
Thanks for the video Bobby and hats off to the owner for the build. Good ole' lead acid, superceded now but after 14 years our off grid lead acid home battery is still going strong.
Would be interested to know initial cost compared to similar off the shelf boat and then ongoing maintenance/ running cost. 👍🔋🇦🇺.
I’d love to know how much those batteries cost too.... IF you have a home with the room for them it could be cheaper then lithium powerwalls etc
@@Obvsaninternetexpert No lithium are much more economical per kW/h these days but need more complex management systems.
Hmm ... perhaps some research on battery technology might be useful.
Lead acid traction batteries are used for a reason ...
@@t1n4444 Agree. Not sure of your point though. We're not talking about traction batteries here.
@@ElectricCarAustralia
Yet the boat was full of 2V traction batteries cobbled up to provide two 48V banks.
It might have been useful to have seen the motor and control gear too.
Using very heavy lead acid cells can be useful in that they provide ballast.
There are many, many boats which use lithium cells of course but the cost of a service bank is eye watering.
Plus the merest hint of thermal runaway deters a lot of builders, not just the cost.
I gather that the BSS outfit (imagine an entity who do a sort of "any" boat MOT, every four years, and without a pass certificate you can't renew your licence, to navigate, or get insurance) which is attached to CRT has yet to take a view on lithium batteries aboard boats (when used for propulsion).
BSS have a dynamic review system which means rules and regs can change at any time if deemed necessary.
You can be sure that if lithium cells became an issue then the insurance companies would be "reluctant" to provide cover.
Much like the vehicle covering insurance companies we see today.
Lithium batteries really are a bad idea in cars now that the insurers are gathering data on how easily a battery pack can be damaged following even a "minor" collision.
We might see ditto for home battery packs once the actuaries working for insurers calculate the risk.
Naturally I speculate at the moment.
If it is sunny: Nice, the batteries are charging! If it is raining: Nice, the tank is filling up! Happy, rain or shine!
There's an all electric canal boat in Paddington as well, takes kids out for trips
fabulous!
'fraid I'd fill that bucket in a few days-just by meself! LOL
Bobby, there's a good channel you should take a look at - Narrowboat Life Unlocked - they are on their 2nd Narrowboat home now and the latest is electric with lipo batteries & solar. They also have a back up generator but move around a lot so that sort of makes sense with less roof space & not many places to plug in on the canal system.
that is amazing
Too cool. Thanks.
This is amazing! Love Europe! West it the best! Cheers from Ukraine!
A houseboat would be a great use case for a heat pump; it'd so easy to pull heat out of that huge source that you're floating around on! I can only dream about efficiency like that with my air source system 😅
I was thinking that. Not heard it done but it seems so obvious.
Thanks , we have a development project in the pipeline
@@thamessolarelectric3662 good to hear! I look forward to your progress 👍
Interesting use of lead acid batteries rather than anything lithium. May as well when you need to add ballast anyway!
Have to wonder how long they'd last though. Lead acid aren't great for longevity.
Well managed in a cool boat not being over charged or left flat I bet you still get 12 plus years out of them
Those 2V tubular style batteries have a much longer lifetime and more cycles than regular lead acid, and are more expensive. Mine lasted 13 years in an off grid cabin, but my new LiFeP batteries outperform them in every way.
Hi Drunken hobo , these batteries aren't your usual lead acid batteries but rather industrial traction cells , and assuming your most regular use is the top 20 % of charge they are rated to 5000 cycles and a third of the cost of lithium .
It’s worth pointing out the vast majority of the UK canal system is not designed for navigation by wide beam craft. Some recently commissioned narrowboats do have electric motors but either require charging off the main grid or have a diesel generator to charge the battery bank. The concept is great for wide beam craft.
Thanks
No one is saying it cant be done. Its the cost to do it that makes it impossible for most
A surface water heat pump system could be used for heating in winter. The water temperature is almost constant and a simple heat pump can supply 4-5 kWh of heat for hot water and heating from 1 kWh of electricity.
Was this system built before Lithium batteries? I believe you only get about 1/2 the stated power out of lead batteries and Lithium batteries are about 1/4 the weight. Cheers
Hi Scott , these aren't normal lead acid but rather traction cells which gives 80% usable , and these boats require ballast to keep them in the water so Lithuim weight advantages were negated as lead forms part of the balast. and obviously the cost difference is huge
Copy
Don't forget yo have to have a CRT license, then there are mooring fees, and you have to take the boat out of the water every three years for the equivalent of an MOT.
It all costs a lot more than you'd expect!
The "MOT" you're referring to is the Boat Safety Scheme inspection and it's done with the boat in the water.
You'll only need to lift her out to repaint, and depending on the paint you use that can be every 7-8 years.
- The inspector cannot do the external hull examination with the boat in the water! Steel hulls have to be ultra-sounded - looking for thin spots or corrosion, and grp hulls have to be examined for laminations going porous. @@AlexOnABoat
If he's only tootling up and down the Thames, he won't need a CRT licence (presumably the EA have an equivalent)
@@theelectricmonk3909 they do, and it's paid per ft²
@@hamshackleton
You are confused.
BSS doesn't cover condition of hull.
The main thrust these days is gas safety, which includes having CO monitors and adequate ventilation.
Plus the requirements change quite often.
The last inspection I had the inspector was mad for ensuring all gas pipes were properly secured every foot or so.
Might be something else in a year or two.
Lithium batteries storage, as in position of, might be something they consider some day.
Hull condition is visually checked every time hull is blacked but not always with ultrasound kit.
If your hull goes orange after coming out of the water then a lot of pitting.
The owner is advised on the state of the anodes too.
Some insurance companies require a marine surveyor to check the hull when a boat reaches 30 years old. (Some companies may have different requirements.)?
They want to know about pitting and thickness of hull plates.
Some insurance companies include a River and Canal Rescue membership (Bronze level) for "their" peace of mind.
Insurance companies very "conservative" when they receive a claim.
Shows the fireplace, shortly afterward cut to the Stop Burning Stuff promo.
I have one question what are all the componets of furniture plastic fittings the walls made from including the. Boat, flooring can any one tell me
Beautiful
If I built a boat like this I'd still have 'to shore' hook up for electricity and water on the 'just in case' principal (a protracted period of heavy cloud = little charge into the battery bank, and extended period of drought = no rain water into holding tank) as you can never be sure of weather conditions.
Very sensible.
Estuary!
I live on a houseboat... on an estuary!
Which is handy for my work... with the port authority
But im sure you would have found it insanitary
Thames Water Authority.
But thanks for the reminder. 😂
Edit: actually he did sing Port Authority on a show in the USA, but the original was Thames Water, which is more appropriate here. 😊
I find it quite curious how they say they're trying to be as green as they can and then proceed to show that, rather than a heat pump, they have a wood burning stove.
At least a wood burner is largely carbon neutral compared with fossil fuels, but I do agree with you; it would be nice to see an air or water source heat pump, but I guess it's future-proofed and one could easily be added at a later date with the hydronic underfloor heating design.
Despite a heat pump being more efficient than straight electrical heating it's still a large consumer of energy ... more than those solar panels can provide in UK conditions.
Hi Lua , we are working on a water Sourse heat pump so hopefully not to far away , saying that there isn't enough winter sun to heat the boat so need an alternative like wind ( experimenting as we speak )
@@thamessolarelectric3662 Hello, and sorry that I was rather harsh. I meant that this type of thing makes me wonder what's the rest of the story.
A water source heat pump can be an interesting thing to read about, but I didn't about whether it's cloudy when it's cold often. That amount of panels might be enough for a water source heat pump on a rather sunny day, but I don't know a lot about British climate. In regards of wind, however, I would worry it might destabilise the boat, particularly if the turbine rests on a high pole.
Have you considered hydro power? Might be plausible if the boat spends more time anchored than travelling.
I wonder how much that beautiful boat costs to have built??
It is so amazing.
What a fantastic river boat, is this classed as a narrow boat as they are called? Basically almost a PassivHaus Boat.
No, it’s a wide beam boat, so unable to travel over most of the UK’s canal network..
No - narrowboats get their name honestly... they're only 6ft 11inches wide, iirc... anything wider than that is classed as a 'wide-beam - including this vessel.
Amazing boat. Do you have a backup generator by any chance?
We do t have , but if you wanted to cruise in winter there is plenty of space to add
Good video. Would of been so much better if we got to see the inner workings of the compostable toilet, water recovery heat recovery systems
Hi Paul , thanks for your input . please see out other videos for the inner workings Thamessolarelectric
@@thamessolarelectric3662 thanks I'll check that out
Obviously, not every type of watercraft can carry the means to recharge itself, though charge cells continue to improve. A good solution would be to provide dockside charging, preferably from renewable sources.
A good portion of canals are to narrow for wide beams. I wonder if this load out would work on a narrow boat.
Also the cost of this new build boat would be a lot more than most people’s boats.
Plenty of narrowboats about powered by electricity.
If arsed have a search on YT.
You could be watching for years and never see them all.
Boat fuel exposure cancer rate is 1.3 in 1 according to the EPA. That's 1.3 instances of cancer per person exposed to it. Changing to electric only is HUGE.
"Boat fuel"? You mean diesel?
The outakes were mildly hilarious. My only observations were you could of got more solar on the roof and shift half the batteries forward to keep the boat level next time. 👍. How long did that project take?. SUPER
The water tank up front would provide the ballast, if it weren't empty (sounded like they filmed after a dry spell, so the tank was running low - which meant a lack of counter-balance in the front)
All canal boats sit lower at the stern, you get used to it within a day or two and don't notice you're walking slightly uphill to bed.
@@AlexOnABoat
😂
Depending on layout that is.
Super awesome !
Their web address is in the Description, and it's worth reading.
How do i make this i want specs 😊 im panning on building a boat and i love thiw design please show us spec
What happens if in winter time in heavy snow , to keep warm interested from NZ I mean snowing for days/nights. CHEERS
we have only ever had a couple of inches of snow on the roof ( doesn't snow hear much anymore ) but we were amazed that enough light passed through those 2 inches to produce about 350w from the 7000w
amazing
All the bloopers at the end 😆
Love it,, Yes Yes,, How much ??
That would be great
Love it! So clever! And think how useful it will be when all the ice caps melt and the sea level rises to new heights! Swap the lead-acid for more modern batteries, and you'll really have a winner. I wonder what kind of regulations an HOA applies to such floating homes. Do they have to pay a monthly fee for a particular berth…?
Yes, you have to pay if you want a permanent mooring (pay through the nose, around London)... but you can also get a 'continuous cruising' licence with is far cheaper - but which requires you to move (at least a few miles) every 2 weeks, iirc.
The whole point with a boat is that you don't need more modern batteries, lead acid work fine, and help ballast the boat so she won't sit high.
Lead acid are ideal ... they need the ballast, they have the space so no need to use the much more expensive lithium ion. Check out the cost of a 100kWh lithium ion battery pack!
you can either have a permanent mooring with you pay for or you get a cc licence and keep moving every 2 weeks
@@thamessolarelectric3662
😂😂😂😂
Or you can do both.
Owners of moorings happy to take you cash any day of the week.
And, CRT (don't know about EA) are about to impose a surcharge on continuous cruisers without permanent moorings.
Awesome boat, bird poo and leaves could be a problem, have to clean the solar panels daily as not on an angle.
Yes, regular cleaning will be needed but much more accessible than house panels. I'm surprised they didn't choose a slight angle. Easy to change I would have thought. The sun in the UK is never truly vertical anyway.
If you like boathouses then this is fantastic. Just one thing, maybe I missed it, the price?
Just take it as EYEWATERING .....!!!BUT, if you just sold a house for £2M.. then......!?
@@andymccabe6712 Good shout.
Hi James , can I direct you to our website which has a price list
So the fire is still "burning stuff"?
Hi Nick, yes we do burn renewable eco logs , still working on a solution
@@thamessolarelectric3662 Good. A step in the right direction. 👍
If I may ask, do the many boats in the UK canals have sewer systems?...how is it done?
All enclosed living spaces should have a heat exchange ventilation system.
It does. Have you watched the entire video?
@@johnhornblow4347I think they did and were making a broaderpoint.
It does
Who pays ?
If these ‘industrial’ lead acid batteries are so brilliant why aren’t they being used as power banks in bricks and mortar properties ?
Standard leisure batteries last between four and seven years on an average narrowboat and that’s without running them right down as you would if you were using them for propulsion.
If the eco loonies are coming for boat liveaboards be prepared for a fight because battery power isn’t the answer.
Lead acid batteries last a lot longer than you suggest.
Lithium cells are used because mugs believe they're "better".
What is often overlooked is the cost.
And unless lithiums are kept warm then they can be tricky to charge them at very low temperatures as can be experienced in UK.
Doubtless LiFePo4 cells (used in narrowboats, not Lithium ion cells) are excellent value in warmer climes.
Ditto solar power, nothing like enough sunshine in UK,as averaged over a year, to cater for a narrowboat's needs so to speak.
Granted you can cover the roof in panels but still not enough room on a narrowboat roof.
Wide beams are something else altogether and might just about cope if you were frugal and you had a lot of panels and batteries and you were away from overhanging trees and high hedges along each side of the canal.
Finding an unshaded spot is easier said than done.
That brings its own problems with (over) heating the boat and panels.
The hotter a panel becomes the less efficient they are.
Having panels bonded directly to the roof can be a problem when you consider by lunchtime on a sunny day the roof is too hot to touch comfortably.
Some boaters cobble up a roof drench using the water as a heat sink and evaporation as well as.
The trouble there is that the submerged pump filter must be flushed daily to wash out the silt (held in suspension in the water column).
Some use a dehumidifier unit to cool the interior but only practical when on shore power.
Naturally in time, as the solar kit becomes more efficient and the cost of batteries remains "reasonable" then we will see more boats abandoning diesel engines.
The above said it may be of interest that hydrogen fuel cells are now a possibility for a canal boat.
"HydrogenAfloat" have a website which might be worth a squint.