Seen a few comments on this so just going to address it in a pinned one. Yeah, I think we gave falco a little too much stuff. In hindsight I'd probably add a point of def and strength to wyvern.
_Wyvern Knight_ shouldn't lose 3 effective speed imho. I think that's an overkill nerf. (The Falco Knight changes on the other hand, are probably fine.) Wyvern Knight should only lose 1 raw speed (keep 4 con). With this, Falco Knight still has _2hp, 1 def, 1 res, 2 hp, c swords, 2 raw speed_ (better at killing lightly armored-speedy enemies), and _savior_ over it. With a body ring (far lower priority item to speed wings with similar availability), they are even still a direct upgrade to Falco's after re-improving the speed _back_ closer to the original. It ignores the defense and utility aspect of Falco in making Wyvern not better at offense.
One correction I want to make, Lute isn’t weighed down by everything that isn’t a Fire Tome Lute is weighed down by everything Fire is 4 weight to her 3 con, she is completely unable to attack with her full AS until promo
I understand why you didn't want to touch Movement as a rule. But I really do think you should've made an exception for Great Knight, bump it up to the 7 that Cavalier starts with, LOSING a stat and especially something that impactful feels horrible and I don't really see that messing anything up. It's pretty impactful for Gilliam and Duessel but not necessarily game-breakingly so.
yeah and great knight already have the armored debuff when moving through desert tiles (on top of the mounted unit debuff when moving through mountains), so they would still have reduced mobility from cavalier even at 7 mobility. At 6 they are actually less mobile than most promoted classes excluding generals (but sometimes generals are actually faster which is saaad)
You have Warrior listed as D bows, but that would be a marked improvement for Warrior. Warrior starts with E bows. Its real annoying to try and level. I think it definitely *should* be D bows, at least then you could start grinding fast rank with a Steel or Short bow. And just use better bows, starting with Iron on a unit like Garcia that has the con for heavier stuff sucks. I believe Mage Knight also starts with E staves, but I am not completely sure of that. I can't say I agree with the con drops you've sprinkled in on some of these. Many of the units you've given con drops to have absolutely miserable con before promotion, and now they remain at miserable con. Neimi gets weighed down by every sword that isn't an Iron sword with that new con I believe, not to mention many bows. And the reason Wyvern is so good is specifically because Vanessa and Tana really need more con for decent combat. I'd much rather see the weaker class get buffed to be closer than see the stronger option get nerfed, especially since your stated goal is to make things more interesting and not necessarily more balanced. Having no option to get decent con is less interesting than having one better option that gets con. I'd definitely favor buffing one to make them closer than nerfing the better one so they're all bad.
Something I'd like to add following your bit on Warriors actually having E bows is that Fighter to Hero actually gives a base of C swords, not D there either
Appreciate the correction on warrior bow rank, that's sad. Though mage knight actually does get D staves on promotion. I think we probably could have just buffed sniper and not touched ranger in hindsight. Not like we're really at risk of Neimi breaking the game.
It's because they're inexplicably focusing on promotion gains instead of the actual _classes._ Like I promoted Lute to Mage Knight _once_ because I felt like the extra movement was more valuable than the extra weapon type, and then I never did that again because the 5-point difference in Magic cap was so noticeable. Like in LTCs the Move is valuable, but if you're not speedrunning, the lower damage is just so painful.
@@CyberchaoX literally still onerounds everything you could possibly still need her to with a 25 magic cap, higher con lets her use stronger tomes without losing speed, and obviously higher move is higher move unless you're playing creature campaign there's basically no reason to do sage promo, it takes too long for her to actually cap and even when she does you have shit like excalibur by that point so her offense is NOT slowing down lmao, nevermind enemy res just being not good
I agree with your point that Bishop should be about staves vs combat. But i think the idea of Bishop getting more magic in the base game is that it is the one and only stat that staves benefit from, so Bishop should focus more on magic while Sage should have more speed and defence.
I'm all here for design thought experiments with fun as the goal! For me, I would most enjoy General getting reliable Provoke and Falcon Knight getting Savior. Those skills appear to actually open up some new approaches to strategies, which would be neat. I know you mentioned General would still be inferior and Falcon Knight would be a little overpowered, but those comparisons really just depend on the context of the playthrough, and personally, I don't think you'd have to worry about rectifying Falcon Knight being too strong or anything. You achieved the goal of giving more appealing incentives for each promotion option, and that's really cool.
Sniper should be like swordmaster - +15-30 crit, and potentially also get silencer like what’s his face in FE7. An additional point or two of combat barely makes a difference over the move and swords I would say
@@blahmaster6k idk I feel like snipers are often the jokes of the promoted classes in FE (even as enemies). Surround them and they’re done, and otherwise used as a way to funnel EXP to weaker units. I think it would be neat to make them real threats like swordmasters. Gotta think twice before approaching and rush them down or bring in a high defense unit to block.
@@DarrienGlasser I dunno, crit from range is kinda OP. Sure, Zerks and Legionnaires in my case can do that with hand axe/javelin line but with a class which weapons are all ranged... They get +1 range at Lv5
4:46 Paladin promo gives +2 con, not 0 8:53 General gets E axes and GK gets E swords D axes 20:35 HP is colored incorrectly, should be blue in Falcoknight’s favor instead of red in Wyvern Knight’s 39:26 nothing is shown other than it being okay lol (Natasha’s was shown despite also being ok)
My favorite rebalance idea for the Falcoknight is actually getting *0* Con on Promotion, which lets them carry Duessel and Gerik while promoted. I think combining this with your Savior idea (and not changing the other stat gains) would give them really interesting different niches; Wyvern Knight is very strong and combat-focused, while Falcoknight is a bulky air bus.
I like this idea, being able to rescue gerik promoted would be super nice on Eirika route, esp since vanessa really wants to promote in that one, imo. Then you'd have wyvern knight for combat and falco knight for air lifting gerik.
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but is Falco now ahead in everything other than pierce? They're faster, just as strong, just as bulky, more HP, have savior, get swords (minor I know) and Draco is just weaker in every way but gets pierce?
Yeah honestly it feels like they overcompensated a bit on that one, wyvern knight seems so much worse, pierce is hardly relevanr generally as it will have very low proc rates for a long time and never gets very high since you spend a lot of time killing low level monsters in the lategame. Imo it’s absolutely not worth it to trade better stats all around just for pierce which will maybe matter like once or twice in an entire run whereas being consistently better at everything will most likely make an actual difference.
Not just you. They simultaneously moved to fix combat and utility for falco *and* nerfed the alternative. Looking at it, there's a very clear winner again.
It definitely feels like these balance changes were made with efficiency in mind, especially considering that the only things changed are promotion gains rather than weapon types or stat caps. Skills that aren't in vanilla also seem kind of weird to consider, but that's just my opinion. Something I realized when thinking about and reading comments on a recent Mekkah video about how Japanese players view Fire Emblem is that If you look at the promotion options in the context of creature campaign and link arena viability, the increased stat caps and increased weapon variety of the "worse" promotion options start to seem way more important, even as the classes exist in vanilla. Apparently Link Arena viability was considered extremely important in Japan when comparing characters, as they would have link arena tournaments back in the day. Similarly, LTC and efficiency main game playthroughs were not considered at all.
This is an interesting thought experiment partially because it approaches rebalancing from one specific angle. You mention in a couple places how some of these changes are less about the classes themselves and more about how the unit itself is bad. A game designer would have more options to fix overall balance, including altering the unit itself, enemies, map design, weapons, etc. Very fun to think about.
This is a very fun discussion and I enjoyed your suggestions. It does seem like there's a bit of a volume difference between you and Akira, with Akira being consistently louder especially during moments of excitement.
It’s very funny to me that other errors in the listed vanilla promotions have been pointed out by other comments, but I haven’t seen a single person point out that you listed Falcoknights getting D swords on promotion, but they get E swords in vanilla. I think that just goes to show that nobody ever goes Falcoknight.
Will be posting my thoughts here as i watch the video. My reasoning will revolve around it being possible to implement in febuilder. This means for example i cannot give moulder and arthur separate promo bonuses as they promote to the same classes, can't give luck, can't use skills that don't already exist in the game etc. *Apparently these skills are all possible with febuilder, but i just suck/want to keep things closer to vanilla. Mostly agreed on the cavs. For gilliam instead of provoke i would give him C in axe and swords. Maybe i would give him 1 more def than you guys as well. Mostly because i can actually implement that in febuilder unlike provoke. Hard disagree on bishop and sage being close. Sage offers nothing bishop does not. Indeed, his combat won't be that good. What's anima going to help? Stupidly high weapon might against a significant portion of the game, now that gets you somewhere, particularly with moulder's decent speed. There's honestly no combat advantage i could give sage that would compensate, so maybe sage gets the staff rank? Or i could give slayer to valkyrie instead of bishop, idk. Kinda like the pegasus knight changes. I can't do savior so i would give it a bit more stats like res maybe? Also feel like i would differentiate a bit more. I think it's fine if wyvern has great con as long as peg gets some compensation. I really really can't give garcia hero even more speed lol. He desperately needs that and it becomes even more unbalanced this way, especially since i can't do rally. I'd swap the hp, make warrior noticeably bulkier than hero in general. Maybe take away some more stats from hero because that 2 speed is everything. Alright to save sniper it's player phase needs to be realllly good. I can't do quick draw, but i can do crit+15. Add another point of speed on top of what you guys did. Fuck it maybe 2. Just keep slapping stats on there. I like the sage changes I like to make every crit a silencer. Not sure if it is balanced but it sure is fun. Swordmaster is probably still better. You could also give assasin +1 mov but i know you guys are against that. There are no enemy assasins so it doesn't affect anything other than your assasins. I would totally do it. Natasha promotion is too samey. Maybe give valkyrie some more magic for that staff uitlity whereas bishop has slayer.
Just for what its worth, every skill used here is in the fe8 skills patch. So not too hard to implement (though I get not wanting to). Moulder's promotion matters only in pretty fast play. In most contexts he easily hits latona in either class. So while you're correct that sage doesn't offer anything bishop does, I would argue that's because in most contexts neither promotion offers anything valuable. Outside of specifically latona access in fast play, I think better combat vs humans compared to better combat vs monsters is a fine choice to make. Without skills warrior would definitely need something else and you probably couldn't give hero more speed yeah. I think if we weren't doing skills I'd throw a couple points of strength, and maybe some additional bulk. It's really hard to match that +2 speed though. Maybe giving warrior 1 speed would be ok. I think plus crit for sniper is a good choice if you can't do skills, and I agree, at that point you might want to add on a point of strength or speed or something, just so that they're better at combat for sure.
@@actuallizard You're right i shouldn't have said i can't implement it since i can. Still, i'd prefer to not stray too far from vanilla (and i'm afraid of complicated febuilder stuff halp). Honestly agreed on the moulder staff rank not mattering. I've never once promoted a unit and thought oh boy am i glad with this extra staff rank. I'm always ahead of where my staff ranks actually need to be. I still think slayer heavily outweighs the perks of anima. Even with your additions sage does not have any relevant advantages statwise, so the better combat needs to come from anima. Shine, which is probably the best weapon for bishop moulder, is objectively better than thunder, which is generally considered anima's selling point. However for moulder elfire is the best tome, which assuming sage has been buffed grants him 4 more might against humans, 2 more might and 1 speed if moulder uses divine, whereas against monsters moulder has 8 more might than elfire with shine and 14 with divine which i think is way more relevant. Actual good combat in some situations is better than meh in every situation. Elfire's availability is pretty limited too and that's sage's only edge. I think you two are selling slayer short. I'm the "most people" you guys were talking about lol. I actually did a playthrough with my own version of this once. It should be noted that it was an ironman with enemy growths buffed by 20% flat, but i just could not give up the 2 hero speed. I don't like giving warrior 1 speed as it differentiates them less, but i could give warrior some more strength than i did, 3 maybe.
As someone that actively uses Marisa in every run bc she's my favorite character, I think level 10 by promo is lowballing it bc (assuming Eirika route here) realistically she's not promoting until chapter 14 bc the chapter 10 hero crest is going to Gerik, and it's not hard to train her up on chapter 11 and 12 bc they're rout maps, especially 11 bc you can have her train up on the really weak zombies on the left side. I usually have her around level 15 by the time she promotes, tho when I did a draft with her she nearly got to level 20 promo and mind you I was playing at ltc pace bc yk it was a draft. Audhulma also isn't unreachable for her tho she's not hitting it until like mid-chapter 15 at the earliest usually so the wexp from swordmaster promo is still very much relevant for getting there. Ephraim route a level 10 promo is more likely bc first hero crest comes before she joins and second comes on Gerik who joins chapter 13 but she's also just a lot worse on Ephraim route in general (tho still bad on Eirika route lol) bc losing 2 extra chapters of availability hurts her bad. Like if you're gonna commit to using Marisa it's better to either go Eirika route, or if you really want to use her on Ephraim route that bad, give her some levels in the tower to get her to a more reasonable level for her join-time.
i definitely think wyvern knight needs something, the proposed changes are way in favour of falco knight as it is. i'd like to propose two solutions: increase the wyvern knight gains by +1 str/skil or increase the wyvern knight to have the same +5 hp, remove the +1 res, and add an extra +3 defense. the first option changes wyvern knight into a slower but accurate and stronger attacker, the second makes it a very bulky pseudo flying armour knight
actually, now that i think about it, i think it would be fun as is if wyvern knight got +10 crit. this would turn it into a very luck based class, with crits and pierce making it able to SOMETIMES kill anything. i think that it's still in favour of falcoknight with +10 crit, but i think that way you kind of turn wyvern knight into a unique and fun class
Healers I'd give a E lock ranked magic tomb use. I love how engage gave healers a way to defend themselves but not how it was used in giving them a physical weapon Healers getting a special tomb that only does 1 range would be incredible for defense and not break the game as they would still be squishy. Also add 1 range weapon that use magic instead to make a new weapon triangle of magi weapons. Levin sword bolt axe and lightning lance are top tier weapons but in a physical based game. Let us have those warlock trickster and dark flier units actually be useful with these weapons in future games
I cried when you took Con off Wyvern Knight. Vanessa and Tana both need that Con to fight with anything other than Iron and Slim Lances. Even Iron Lance slows them down with that change now, I believe?
I do think we made Falco too much better than Wyvern (I'd give wyvern a point of strength in hindsight), but the 2 con is less big of a deal than you think. Vanessa averages 17 spd on promotion at level 10 into our version of wyvern knight. In wyvern, with the changes we made, that's 16 spd on an iron, 15 on a killer, 14 on a silver, 13 on a javelin. The vast majority of enemy speeds in Eirika route chapter 9 (a map she's likely to promote on) are below 10, and the most important enemies (the boss and the sniper) have 9 and 10 speed respectively. The biggest change is just that she can't double the fastest enemies on the map with a javelin anymore, which I think is fine, she's already a top 3 unit in the game, and she hits her most important benchmark (doubling valter with dragonspear) at 10/10 even with these changes. The 2 con mostly makes her double less things with steel lances. Vanessa and Tana would still be excellent units with these changes.
Personally I think the way to give snipers an interesting buff is giving them +15 crit just like the other "Specialist" Classes. As all the single-weapon promoted class they all have Crit Bonus (ea. Sword Master and Berserker, the classes that even the only ones that can reach S rank in their kind of weapons in some games) I think it should be a viable buff to them and made them more fun to use Imagine the a capped skill Sniper with S Rank in Bow and with +15 Crit Bonus. That's already +35 Crit without a killer weapon or supports. That'd be fun.
Its interesting that you decided to go in the vein of totally separate promo gains for the same promote per the class type, even though its typically a universal constant what stats they gain. I'm not opposed to the idea but its pretty interesting to design stat increases and decreases with the added context of them also affecting the balance of a totally different character, but that could get too restrictive lol Overall video was good though, I'm glad everyone is of the consensus that great knight should be the objective combat class of cavalier promos lol, its always weird when you find out their original stat gains barely even represent that
I had some fun changing up the advanced classes. But I made the Sniper far more literal. They gained no bulk on promotion, but a significant amount of strength, skill and +1 bow range. They were scary. Lost several units to snipers whom my javcavs couldnt retaliate against. On the other hand, this arguably made the game far more player phase heavy, so I might not have been playing Sacred Stones at that point.
I feel like Paladin (M) should gain a point in Skl and/or Res to better define its flavor (since it's still getting even Def/Res increase and Skl is tied with Great Knight) in exchange for the lost Spd and Def. Could add a point more of HP or something to the Great Knight to keep it in the clear statistical lead, as my suggestion here is more about unit feel. Was very pleasantly surprised you weren't afraid to start off immediately with a full nerf to a class option at the beginning of the video. Definitely not pandering to viewers that way. Monk/Artur has some inconsistencies in the modified chart (based on what's displayed from the before and after in the video, as don't feel like double checking if your base comparisons were copied down correctly when I'm already taking so long to get through the videos as it is nitpicking your ideas and how I'd handle them if I have disagreements). The "Difference" section for Skl should read a 0, and having 3 in Res for Bishop should be highlighted as a change. On top of that, adding Lck during promotion kinda goes against this game's base design, and, even discounting that for the sake more interesting choices, high Lck is very highly more traditional to Bishops throughout the series over Sages, since Lck is attributed to religious elements, even down to the Goddess Icon stat booster. Sage getting a Lck boost over Bishop is basically hacking the game to no longer be a part of the Fire Emblem series from a metanarrative standpoint. ...Typed before listening to your logic on the changes. Will add more on this line of though if you make a good argument for why specifically Lck for Sage (M). ...Yeah, I'd just throw him the bone on Lck for his Bishop promotion and make Sage even stronger in other stats. Maybe make him better at tanking the crits in that case? Or more of a glass canon? Okay, for Pegasus Knight you spent a good chunk of time saying how valuable more Con is for them before the rebalance was revealed, only for your idea of making Falco more viable is to make the game less fun for anyone that wants their Pegasus units to be able to eventually wield heavier weapons after going through the trouble to train them for promotion? All that trouble just to be stuck still attacking with E rank weapons even after callously ditching their pony for a wyvern in the pursuit of power. Great, big "improvement" to Falco. Especially after saying Pierce is only minorly good. ...I did like the suggestion someone else in the comments had about making Falco +0 Con to have better use of Savior, and with that in mind I'd actually have Wyvern Knight get to keep its +4 Con, while giving Falco a bigger Spd buff as well as a big Lck buff (+5 total each? or 4 each and make Wyvern 0 Spd, but I do prefer that every stat get at least +1 for a promotion since it's very feel-good that way, could even say all the classes not mentioning it go +1 Lck now since that being added to the context of what can increase from promotion and only one point of that stat alone is relatively negligible to balance except in extreme cases). Lck is very thematic for Pegasus as well, and helps support the Savoir focused niche while making the zero effective speed difference between Falco's Spd being 4 higher and Wyvern's Con being 4 higher have a practical benefit via Evasion. Also technically makes greater weapon triangle access more practical in the pursuit of maintaining that Evade. Dodge tanking isn't everyone's cut of tea, but it is exactly that fact that makes it a smart thing to base a promotion choice around since you can just pick the other option if you don't want to rely on that. As a point of personal taste, maybe also up Falco Res and Wyvern Def relative to each other. For Archer (F), if Ranger(Bow Knight) is losing a point of Res, might as well add a point of Res to Sniper. Maybe give Sure Shot to Ranger (just because it doesn't matter to Sniper and might matter to some units promoting that way or enemies), while dropping Ranger's Skl one point (or give an extra to Sniper) since it does make more sense for Sniper to be superior in that stat, too. Technically, with Quick Draw in play, swapping their relative Str boosts would be what is strictly fair to do, but Sniper would need a couple more points in other stats to compensate if Ranger did get that point of Str (or the Crit Plus skill, but that would be too toxic on enemy snipers after already adding Quick Draw... minor note, think that Quick Draw might have a different name in the Skills Patch if my memory serves, not sure, but pretty sure it's in it either way). Just because I don't want to keep being negative skipping ones I don't disagree on, Lute's promotion fix seems like the most fair way balance things without giving Sage a bunch of Con to make it the better statistical combat option. (Really hope this doesn't mean Mage Knight will be the combat focused option in Troubadour's case, though, since L'Arachel is easily has the niche for the most canonically appropriate S Rank Light magic unit in the game, since it's wasted on Bishops while Sages have Anima, and Staff Rank has already been a huge deciding factor in a lot of your choices for early game Light magic access units. Man, so much for me trying to be positive.) The Thief and Myrmidon (M) are basically, what is there to be done? Understandable. Would have to be too huge of an overhaul to keep the same flavor if you did want bigger changes anyway. Natasha is so much farther behind on Staff Rank than Moulder that I feel like the value of Bishop is to the point that Valkyrie deserved to be a bit more combat stat rich compensate. Needs to feel like a choice instead of a consolation prize. Alternatively, add some kind of skill. Think I'll just reserve my judgement on it for the other video at this point, though. Myrmidon (F), oh man, what does the finale of this half of the colab hold? Honestly, on top of the point of Str you added, I'd have to say just give Marisa an additional +1 gain to every stat other than Move on both promotion options, because she legitimately needs the help for being so incredibly terrible. I'm totally serious, she's too much of a meme. She makes Neimi look competent in comparison. Why do the weakest base classes get the least stat increases on promotion?
FE8's alternate promotion system is sure a great thing but once you know the game most of the choices are so obvious, the only interesting case is the mercenary promotion with a choice between higher mobility or being able to use axe to hit harder and being able to attack from close and long range with the hand axes. The cavalier's promotion would've been more interesting if the great knight class has one more movement point.
I disagree with you onBishop and Slayer, while yes Bishop's don't necessarily have to focus on combat Slayer just makes them great at it in the late game and creature campaign pretty much no matter what, as at it's worst Slayer gives Bishops +8 damage with Lighting tomes, +16 if they double, and it just goes up from there, +12/24 with Shine, +16/32 with Divine, +20/40 with Purge, and +24/48 with Aura, sadly Slayer's triple effectiveness gets overwritten by Ivaldi's inherent double effectiveness, meaning it only gets +17/34 damage instead of +34/68
At the very least, choosing assassin over sword master could be worth it if colm died before you got rennac, since you could give joshua the lockpick (assuming it wasnt on colm when he died). Of course, you could just buy chest keys and door keys on eirika route, but i prefer the lower amount of inventory clutter. Doesnt get you stealing back though
But I think some things that should take into effect in the choice you make is how far are you taking the game, because the different units have slightly different stat caps, but then that might not matter if your not doing the post game, so the immediate stat gains would be better,
I feel like, sureshot should be making it so you get +accuracy = to your level and any accuracy you have over 100 is transferred into extra crit (not just the accuracy from the skill). This would make sniper the perfect "fuck that unit in particular" unit. Maybe greatshield could just make generals straight up immune to crit. Rather than a chance of avoiding damage (which is a bit silly for a class that's already focused on mitigating damage). This would make them very focused on having control over whatever happens in the ennemy phase.
Fighter > Hero gets C swords, not D. Also Fighter > Warrior gets E bows, not D. So the hero choice is even more obvious for Garcia (especially because it makes sense with his background as a former knight)
Moulder as a Bishop is straight up better and it is no contest whatsoever. Like you said he won't be entering combat most of the time and when he does it is usually against flying monsters. As a Sage he usually can't one shoot them but as a bishop he almost always can. Also considering that most of the maps near the end game are all monsters without normal units, he can help clear up some annoying units. His bulk is good enough to withstand at least one hit from gargoyles and they are one of the worst monster enemies for majority of the game. Also you have Saleh who is a sage with great stats AND C rank in staff, so there is no reason for any one of your healers to promote to sage. Natasha mag is crap so Sage does nothing to her so she and Moulder depending on his lvl up gains can at least contribute something as Bishops.
Sorry if this has already been asked but how do u feel about Awakening/Fates improving great knight by keeping their movement stat as is instead of -1? Quick personal opinion: I’m not big on Fates GK generally tho they generally make for excellent backpacks. +1 move backpacks r like automatically good and if u can have +4 def with it too then all the better
Falcon knight now has health, speed, defense, resistance, more weapon triangle control and an actual useful skill over the wyvern. Yeah sounds balanced lmao. (Still loved the video tho)
Why didnt assassin's ability to use lockpicks (and lose Steal from thief) get mentioned? Its really the only reason to look at the path. I like Assassin Joshua because its basically Jaffar. Having a great dodge tank thief without ever training Colm is very nice; pivots him to a support unit that's a solid B in combat from the chapter he joins right until Endgame, where the pathetic Str cap hampers his offense in the final chapters.
Seriously though, I'd love to know why you guys think Adhulma's 18 MT and 5 RES is above Garm's 20 MT and 5 SPE. Adhulma is amazing, and on a speedy unit, even better, but Garm is disgusting. I'm very surprised you guys think Adhulma is superior.
Garm has earlier accessibility on Eph route, more MT, better bonus, and as a result of the bonus, offers the best accuracy among axes, while not being heavy. I think people tend to use it on the slower axe wielders like Duessel, Ross and Garcia when it is absolutely destructive in the hands of Kyle, Gerik or Franz. I throw Adhulma on Gerik if he looks to be hitting his SPE thresholds, otherwise I use it on Eirika after spamming her Rapier on rejoin, and Sieglinde on promo. I would like Adhulma on Franz because he reliably hits his SPE but I prefer the accuracy bonus on S lances for Paladins. I can understand the appreciation for it, I love the weapon to bits, but aside from Eirika route bias having it earlier, I don't see how it could be heralded as the best weapon, it's not even the best sword imo, that goes to Sieglinde, although it being PRF sword would make sense to not be rated as high.
Generally I agree with most decisions except Wyvern Knight which has basically no use outside of LTCing with Pierce. Falco is just better in basically every way. I don’t think pierce is so good to give Falco basically everything else.
Before even watching, I can not agree with the synapses in the Description enough. Such a feel-good way to do promotions, such a feel-bad decision to make when nearly every option has clear objective correct or incorrect choice once you have game knowledge.
I haven't tried it but, isn't general with provoke a little broken? I can just have every glass canon ans healer next to the big guy, in an open field, and NEVER lose if the big guy is overleveled. He can carry pocket medics; pocket glass canons, pocket trainees, pocket Dozla, everything!
I believe that if provoke works like in Tellius, it will only manipulate the AI if all units they can attack can both fight back, and survive their attacks. So frail units and weapon less units would still be targets with a general around.
With the speedwings and the Hero promotion, Garcia *can* double most enemies on average, though. He hits like, 13 speed by 20/5? Slap them wings on him and my boy will cook anything that isn't promoted. It's just a matter of him *barely* making those benchmarks, so even like one point of screwage can cripple him. There is still Garm though, at least...
If youve already adjusted one of the classes, then when youre assessing the other "half" of the promotion, shouldn't you be comparing it to the updated class? For example, when you updated Great Knight relative to Paladin, you should have used the updated Great Knight stats when considering General.
i extremely heavily disagree with the notion of "sage for combat, bishop for utility and staves" in artur's case. He's a Light Mage- Monk. He should become a Light Sage-Bishop. Nerfing him in any degree blows, and Sage shouldn't be the class for "Combat" utility. Just keep the Bishop as it is. Buff Sage, don't nerf Bishop LOL it's not broken?? Also insane flavor failure on not giving **Bishop** luck.
But Artur has a way to fix his low luck supports. The fastest to build are Lute and Neimi .... Now I understand you all buffing his luck, because you don't train Neimi lmao The Vanilla Peg Knight Promo would be more balanced if sword was good in this game. I think Falcon is good to Vanessa in Distant Blade 0% due to WTA, however, in any other scenario, 4 con is always better.
Seen a few comments on this so just going to address it in a pinned one.
Yeah, I think we gave falco a little too much stuff. In hindsight I'd probably add a point of def and strength to wyvern.
_Wyvern Knight_ shouldn't lose 3 effective speed imho. I think that's an overkill nerf. (The Falco Knight changes on the other hand, are probably fine.) Wyvern Knight should only lose 1 raw speed (keep 4 con). With this, Falco Knight still has _2hp, 1 def, 1 res, 2 hp, c swords, 2 raw speed_ (better at killing lightly armored-speedy enemies), and _savior_ over it. With a body ring (far lower priority item to speed wings with similar availability), they are even still a direct upgrade to Falco's after re-improving the speed _back_ closer to the original. It ignores the defense and utility aspect of Falco in making Wyvern not better at offense.
One correction I want to make, Lute isn’t weighed down by everything that isn’t a Fire Tome
Lute is weighed down by everything
Fire is 4 weight to her 3 con, she is completely unable to attack with her full AS until promo
Sounds about right.
Cringe this is so cringe
Sophia's con:finally a worthy oponent our battle Will be legendary
I understand why you didn't want to touch Movement as a rule. But I really do think you should've made an exception for Great Knight, bump it up to the 7 that Cavalier starts with, LOSING a stat and especially something that impactful feels horrible and I don't really see that messing anything up.
It's pretty impactful for Gilliam and Duessel but not necessarily game-breakingly so.
yeah and great knight already have the armored debuff when moving through desert tiles (on top of the mounted unit debuff when moving through mountains), so they would still have reduced mobility from cavalier even at 7 mobility. At 6 they are actually less mobile than most promoted classes excluding generals (but sometimes generals are actually faster which is saaad)
THIS OMG THIS
You have Warrior listed as D bows, but that would be a marked improvement for Warrior. Warrior starts with E bows. Its real annoying to try and level. I think it definitely *should* be D bows, at least then you could start grinding fast rank with a Steel or Short bow. And just use better bows, starting with Iron on a unit like Garcia that has the con for heavier stuff sucks. I believe Mage Knight also starts with E staves, but I am not completely sure of that.
I can't say I agree with the con drops you've sprinkled in on some of these. Many of the units you've given con drops to have absolutely miserable con before promotion, and now they remain at miserable con. Neimi gets weighed down by every sword that isn't an Iron sword with that new con I believe, not to mention many bows. And the reason Wyvern is so good is specifically because Vanessa and Tana really need more con for decent combat. I'd much rather see the weaker class get buffed to be closer than see the stronger option get nerfed, especially since your stated goal is to make things more interesting and not necessarily more balanced. Having no option to get decent con is less interesting than having one better option that gets con. I'd definitely favor buffing one to make them closer than nerfing the better one so they're all bad.
Something I'd like to add following your bit on Warriors actually having E bows is that Fighter to Hero actually gives a base of C swords, not D there either
Appreciate the correction on warrior bow rank, that's sad. Though mage knight actually does get D staves on promotion.
I think we probably could have just buffed sniper and not touched ranger in hindsight. Not like we're really at risk of Neimi breaking the game.
Marisa is such a sad unit, she doesn't even have the fun novelty the trainees have. It's such a shame.
Yeah she really feels like she could have been a sword trainee, then she would be a bit more interesting at least, imo.
@@actuallizard Oh, that's true! Come to think of it, we don't have a sword trainee! Doesn't fit her character, though.
@@actuallizard Doesn't Marisa come with the Shamshir tho (which is kinda like a Killing Edge)?
@@thesleepyquagsire She does and that's litterally the only reason to recruit her lol, steal her sword and bench her.
killer edge is better unless your trying to collect all the weapons i still don't see the point@@Laezar1
I would absolutely love to see more Rebalancing videos. Especially for Radiant Dawn, or 3Houses.
I was today years old when I realized all the units I thought were the slow bulky promos were actually the fast ones.
It's because they're inexplicably focusing on promotion gains instead of the actual _classes._
Like I promoted Lute to Mage Knight _once_ because I felt like the extra movement was more valuable than the extra weapon type, and then I never did that again because the 5-point difference in Magic cap was so noticeable. Like in LTCs the Move is valuable, but if you're not speedrunning, the lower damage is just so painful.
@@CyberchaoX literally still onerounds everything you could possibly still need her to with a 25 magic cap, higher con lets her use stronger tomes without losing speed, and obviously higher move is higher move
unless you're playing creature campaign there's basically no reason to do sage promo, it takes too long for her to actually cap and even when she does you have shit like excalibur by that point so her offense is NOT slowing down lmao, nevermind enemy res just being not good
I agree with your point that Bishop should be about staves vs combat. But i think the idea of Bishop getting more magic in the base game is that it is the one and only stat that staves benefit from, so Bishop should focus more on magic while Sage should have more speed and defence.
I'm all here for design thought experiments with fun as the goal! For me, I would most enjoy General getting reliable Provoke and Falcon Knight getting Savior. Those skills appear to actually open up some new approaches to strategies, which would be neat. I know you mentioned General would still be inferior and Falcon Knight would be a little overpowered, but those comparisons really just depend on the context of the playthrough, and personally, I don't think you'd have to worry about rectifying Falcon Knight being too strong or anything. You achieved the goal of giving more appealing incentives for each promotion option, and that's really cool.
Sniper should be like swordmaster - +15-30 crit, and potentially also get silencer like what’s his face in FE7. An additional point or two of combat barely makes a difference over the move and swords I would say
Today I learned Sniper doesnt get a crit bonus like swordmaster. Sorry Innes, but I wasnt using you anyways
The only problem with giving bonus crit to snipers is that it also means enemy snipers get that 30 crit, which wouldn't be very fun sometimes.
@@blahmaster6k idk I feel like snipers are often the jokes of the promoted classes in FE (even as enemies). Surround them and they’re done, and otherwise used as a way to funnel EXP to weaker units.
I think it would be neat to make them real threats like swordmasters. Gotta think twice before approaching and rush them down or bring in a high defense unit to block.
@@DarrienGlasser I dunno, crit from range is kinda OP. Sure, Zerks and Legionnaires in my case can do that with hand axe/javelin line but with a class which weapons are all ranged...
They get +1 range at Lv5
4:46 Paladin promo gives +2 con, not 0
8:53 General gets E axes and GK gets E swords D axes
20:35 HP is colored incorrectly, should be blue in Falcoknight’s favor instead of red in Wyvern Knight’s
39:26 nothing is shown other than it being okay lol (Natasha’s was shown despite also being ok)
My favorite rebalance idea for the Falcoknight is actually getting *0* Con on Promotion, which lets them carry Duessel and Gerik while promoted. I think combining this with your Savior idea (and not changing the other stat gains) would give them really interesting different niches; Wyvern Knight is very strong and combat-focused, while Falcoknight is a bulky air bus.
I like this idea, being able to rescue gerik promoted would be super nice on Eirika route, esp since vanessa really wants to promote in that one, imo. Then you'd have wyvern knight for combat and falco knight for air lifting gerik.
How about just setting the Female Mounted Aid formula to 25 instead like the males?
@@thetiger39 Then Wyvern Knight can carry everyone in the game, even Dozla, so that doesn't bring the two closer in line to each other
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but is Falco now ahead in everything other than pierce? They're faster, just as strong, just as bulky, more HP, have savior, get swords (minor I know) and Draco is just weaker in every way but gets pierce?
Yeah honestly it feels like they overcompensated a bit on that one, wyvern knight seems so much worse, pierce is hardly relevanr generally as it will have very low proc rates for a long time and never gets very high since you spend a lot of time killing low level monsters in the lategame. Imo it’s absolutely not worth it to trade better stats all around just for pierce which will maybe matter like once or twice in an entire run whereas being consistently better at everything will most likely make an actual difference.
Not just you. They simultaneously moved to fix combat and utility for falco *and* nerfed the alternative. Looking at it, there's a very clear winner again.
It definitely feels like these balance changes were made with efficiency in mind, especially considering that the only things changed are promotion gains rather than weapon types or stat caps. Skills that aren't in vanilla also seem kind of weird to consider, but that's just my opinion. Something I realized when thinking about and reading comments on a recent Mekkah video about how Japanese players view Fire Emblem is that If you look at the promotion options in the context of creature campaign and link arena viability, the increased stat caps and increased weapon variety of the "worse" promotion options start to seem way more important, even as the classes exist in vanilla. Apparently Link Arena viability was considered extremely important in Japan when comparing characters, as they would have link arena tournaments back in the day. Similarly, LTC and efficiency main game playthroughs were not considered at all.
RIP Marisa, why did IS give the name "Crimson Flash" to a unit they hated so much
So that I could take it as my alias in Maplestory and feel cool 😊
This is an interesting thought experiment partially because it approaches rebalancing from one specific angle. You mention in a couple places how some of these changes are less about the classes themselves and more about how the unit itself is bad. A game designer would have more options to fix overall balance, including altering the unit itself, enemies, map design, weapons, etc. Very fun to think about.
This is a very fun discussion and I enjoyed your suggestions.
It does seem like there's a bit of a volume difference between you and Akira, with Akira being consistently louder especially during moments of excitement.
It’s very funny to me that other errors in the listed vanilla promotions have been pointed out by other comments, but I haven’t seen a single person point out that you listed Falcoknights getting D swords on promotion, but they get E swords in vanilla. I think that just goes to show that nobody ever goes Falcoknight.
An hour of FE8 nerdity ? Hell yes. Your FE videos are probably my favourite out there now, you've actually been killing it.
Will be posting my thoughts here as i watch the video. My reasoning will revolve around it being possible to implement in febuilder. This means for example i cannot give moulder and arthur separate promo bonuses as they promote to the same classes, can't give luck, can't use skills that don't already exist in the game etc. *Apparently these skills are all possible with febuilder, but i just suck/want to keep things closer to vanilla.
Mostly agreed on the cavs.
For gilliam instead of provoke i would give him C in axe and swords. Maybe i would give him 1 more def than you guys as well. Mostly because i can actually implement that in febuilder unlike provoke.
Hard disagree on bishop and sage being close. Sage offers nothing bishop does not. Indeed, his combat won't be that good. What's anima going to help? Stupidly high weapon might against a significant portion of the game, now that gets you somewhere, particularly with moulder's decent speed. There's honestly no combat advantage i could give sage that would compensate, so maybe sage gets the staff rank? Or i could give slayer to valkyrie instead of bishop, idk.
Kinda like the pegasus knight changes. I can't do savior so i would give it a bit more stats like res maybe? Also feel like i would differentiate a bit more. I think it's fine if wyvern has great con as long as peg gets some compensation.
I really really can't give garcia hero even more speed lol. He desperately needs that and it becomes even more unbalanced this way, especially since i can't do rally. I'd swap the hp, make warrior noticeably bulkier than hero in general. Maybe take away some more stats from hero because that 2 speed is everything.
Alright to save sniper it's player phase needs to be realllly good. I can't do quick draw, but i can do crit+15. Add another point of speed on top of what you guys did. Fuck it maybe 2. Just keep slapping stats on there.
I like the sage changes
I like to make every crit a silencer. Not sure if it is balanced but it sure is fun. Swordmaster is probably still better. You could also give assasin +1 mov but i know you guys are against that. There are no enemy assasins so it doesn't affect anything other than your assasins. I would totally do it.
Natasha promotion is too samey. Maybe give valkyrie some more magic for that staff uitlity whereas bishop has slayer.
Just for what its worth, every skill used here is in the fe8 skills patch. So not too hard to implement (though I get not wanting to).
Moulder's promotion matters only in pretty fast play. In most contexts he easily hits latona in either class. So while you're correct that sage doesn't offer anything bishop does, I would argue that's because in most contexts neither promotion offers anything valuable. Outside of specifically latona access in fast play, I think better combat vs humans compared to better combat vs monsters is a fine choice to make.
Without skills warrior would definitely need something else and you probably couldn't give hero more speed yeah. I think if we weren't doing skills I'd throw a couple points of strength, and maybe some additional bulk. It's really hard to match that +2 speed though. Maybe giving warrior 1 speed would be ok.
I think plus crit for sniper is a good choice if you can't do skills, and I agree, at that point you might want to add on a point of strength or speed or something, just so that they're better at combat for sure.
@@actuallizard You're right i shouldn't have said i can't implement it since i can. Still, i'd prefer to not stray too far from vanilla (and i'm afraid of complicated febuilder stuff halp).
Honestly agreed on the moulder staff rank not mattering. I've never once promoted a unit and thought oh boy am i glad with this extra staff rank. I'm always ahead of where my staff ranks actually need to be. I still think slayer heavily outweighs the perks of anima.
Even with your additions sage does not have any relevant advantages statwise, so the better combat needs to come from anima. Shine, which is probably the best weapon for bishop moulder, is objectively better than thunder, which is generally considered anima's selling point. However for moulder elfire is the best tome, which assuming sage has been buffed grants him 4 more might against humans, 2 more might and 1 speed if moulder uses divine, whereas against monsters moulder has 8 more might than elfire with shine and 14 with divine which i think is way more relevant. Actual good combat in some situations is better than meh in every situation. Elfire's availability is pretty limited too and that's sage's only edge. I think you two are selling slayer short. I'm the "most people" you guys were talking about lol.
I actually did a playthrough with my own version of this once. It should be noted that it was an ironman with enemy growths buffed by 20% flat, but i just could not give up the 2 hero speed. I don't like giving warrior 1 speed as it differentiates them less, but i could give warrior some more strength than i did, 3 maybe.
As someone that actively uses Marisa in every run bc she's my favorite character, I think level 10 by promo is lowballing it bc (assuming Eirika route here) realistically she's not promoting until chapter 14 bc the chapter 10 hero crest is going to Gerik, and it's not hard to train her up on chapter 11 and 12 bc they're rout maps, especially 11 bc you can have her train up on the really weak zombies on the left side. I usually have her around level 15 by the time she promotes, tho when I did a draft with her she nearly got to level 20 promo and mind you I was playing at ltc pace bc yk it was a draft. Audhulma also isn't unreachable for her tho she's not hitting it until like mid-chapter 15 at the earliest usually so the wexp from swordmaster promo is still very much relevant for getting there.
Ephraim route a level 10 promo is more likely bc first hero crest comes before she joins and second comes on Gerik who joins chapter 13 but she's also just a lot worse on Ephraim route in general (tho still bad on Eirika route lol) bc losing 2 extra chapters of availability hurts her bad. Like if you're gonna commit to using Marisa it's better to either go Eirika route, or if you really want to use her on Ephraim route that bad, give her some levels in the tower to get her to a more reasonable level for her join-time.
i definitely think wyvern knight needs something, the proposed changes are way in favour of falco knight as it is. i'd like to propose two solutions: increase the wyvern knight gains by +1 str/skil or increase the wyvern knight to have the same +5 hp, remove the +1 res, and add an extra +3 defense. the first option changes wyvern knight into a slower but accurate and stronger attacker, the second makes it a very bulky pseudo flying armour knight
actually, now that i think about it, i think it would be fun as is if wyvern knight got +10 crit. this would turn it into a very luck based class, with crits and pierce making it able to SOMETIMES kill anything. i think that it's still in favour of falcoknight with +10 crit, but i think that way you kind of turn wyvern knight into a unique and fun class
Healers I'd give a E lock ranked magic tomb use. I love how engage gave healers a way to defend themselves but not how it was used in giving them a physical weapon
Healers getting a special tomb that only does 1 range would be incredible for defense and not break the game as they would still be squishy.
Also add 1 range weapon that use magic instead to make a new weapon triangle of magi weapons. Levin sword bolt axe and lightning lance are top tier weapons but in a physical based game. Let us have those warlock trickster and dark flier units actually be useful with these weapons in future games
Female myrmidon? Oh, you mean the free shamshir?
I love this video but you are KILLING ME with this blinding white screen AUGH lol
Love the video, I dunno if I agree with anything but I enjoy the back and forth and insight. That being said, I will not have this Axe slander! 😂
I cried when you took Con off Wyvern Knight. Vanessa and Tana both need that Con to fight with anything other than Iron and Slim Lances. Even Iron Lance slows them down with that change now, I believe?
Nerfs feel bad but honestly it's probably the best class in sacred stones so giving them a nerf is fair enough
I do think we made Falco too much better than Wyvern (I'd give wyvern a point of strength in hindsight), but the 2 con is less big of a deal than you think. Vanessa averages 17 spd on promotion at level 10 into our version of wyvern knight.
In wyvern, with the changes we made, that's 16 spd on an iron, 15 on a killer, 14 on a silver, 13 on a javelin. The vast majority of enemy speeds in Eirika route chapter 9 (a map she's likely to promote on) are below 10, and the most important enemies (the boss and the sniper) have 9 and 10 speed respectively.
The biggest change is just that she can't double the fastest enemies on the map with a javelin anymore, which I think is fine, she's already a top 3 unit in the game, and she hits her most important benchmark (doubling valter with dragonspear) at 10/10 even with these changes.
The 2 con mostly makes her double less things with steel lances. Vanessa and Tana would still be excellent units with these changes.
Personally I think the way to give snipers an interesting buff is giving them +15 crit just like the other "Specialist" Classes. As all the single-weapon promoted class they all have Crit Bonus (ea. Sword Master and Berserker, the classes that even the only ones that can reach S rank in their kind of weapons in some games) I think it should be a viable buff to them and made them more fun to use
Imagine the a capped skill Sniper with S Rank in Bow and with +15 Crit Bonus. That's already +35 Crit without a killer weapon or supports.
That'd be fun.
Its interesting that you decided to go in the vein of totally separate promo gains for the same promote per the class type, even though its typically a universal constant what stats they gain. I'm not opposed to the idea but its pretty interesting to design stat increases and decreases with the added context of them also affecting the balance of a totally different character, but that could get too restrictive lol
Overall video was good though, I'm glad everyone is of the consensus that great knight should be the objective combat class of cavalier promos lol, its always weird when you find out their original stat gains barely even represent that
With full respect to the Great Knight, my only ever use of that class is the “Duessel can’t reclass” instance. And sometimes Kyle. It just looks funny
I had some fun changing up the advanced classes. But I made the Sniper far more literal. They gained no bulk on promotion, but a significant amount of strength, skill and +1 bow range. They were scary. Lost several units to snipers whom my javcavs couldnt retaliate against. On the other hand, this arguably made the game far more player phase heavy, so I might not have been playing Sacred Stones at that point.
I feel like Paladin (M) should gain a point in Skl and/or Res to better define its flavor (since it's still getting even Def/Res increase and Skl is tied with Great Knight) in exchange for the lost Spd and Def. Could add a point more of HP or something to the Great Knight to keep it in the clear statistical lead, as my suggestion here is more about unit feel. Was very pleasantly surprised you weren't afraid to start off immediately with a full nerf to a class option at the beginning of the video. Definitely not pandering to viewers that way.
Monk/Artur has some inconsistencies in the modified chart (based on what's displayed from the before and after in the video, as don't feel like double checking if your base comparisons were copied down correctly when I'm already taking so long to get through the videos as it is nitpicking your ideas and how I'd handle them if I have disagreements). The "Difference" section for Skl should read a 0, and having 3 in Res for Bishop should be highlighted as a change. On top of that, adding Lck during promotion kinda goes against this game's base design, and, even discounting that for the sake more interesting choices, high Lck is very highly more traditional to Bishops throughout the series over Sages, since Lck is attributed to religious elements, even down to the Goddess Icon stat booster. Sage getting a Lck boost over Bishop is basically hacking the game to no longer be a part of the Fire Emblem series from a metanarrative standpoint.
...Typed before listening to your logic on the changes. Will add more on this line of though if you make a good argument for why specifically Lck for Sage (M).
...Yeah, I'd just throw him the bone on Lck for his Bishop promotion and make Sage even stronger in other stats. Maybe make him better at tanking the crits in that case? Or more of a glass canon?
Okay, for Pegasus Knight you spent a good chunk of time saying how valuable more Con is for them before the rebalance was revealed, only for your idea of making Falco more viable is to make the game less fun for anyone that wants their Pegasus units to be able to eventually wield heavier weapons after going through the trouble to train them for promotion? All that trouble just to be stuck still attacking with E rank weapons even after callously ditching their pony for a wyvern in the pursuit of power. Great, big "improvement" to Falco. Especially after saying Pierce is only minorly good.
...I did like the suggestion someone else in the comments had about making Falco +0 Con to have better use of Savior, and with that in mind I'd actually have Wyvern Knight get to keep its +4 Con, while giving Falco a bigger Spd buff as well as a big Lck buff (+5 total each? or 4 each and make Wyvern 0 Spd, but I do prefer that every stat get at least +1 for a promotion since it's very feel-good that way, could even say all the classes not mentioning it go +1 Lck now since that being added to the context of what can increase from promotion and only one point of that stat alone is relatively negligible to balance except in extreme cases). Lck is very thematic for Pegasus as well, and helps support the Savoir focused niche while making the zero effective speed difference between Falco's Spd being 4 higher and Wyvern's Con being 4 higher have a practical benefit via Evasion. Also technically makes greater weapon triangle access more practical in the pursuit of maintaining that Evade. Dodge tanking isn't everyone's cut of tea, but it is exactly that fact that makes it a smart thing to base a promotion choice around since you can just pick the other option if you don't want to rely on that. As a point of personal taste, maybe also up Falco Res and Wyvern Def relative to each other.
For Archer (F), if Ranger(Bow Knight) is losing a point of Res, might as well add a point of Res to Sniper. Maybe give Sure Shot to Ranger (just because it doesn't matter to Sniper and might matter to some units promoting that way or enemies), while dropping Ranger's Skl one point (or give an extra to Sniper) since it does make more sense for Sniper to be superior in that stat, too. Technically, with Quick Draw in play, swapping their relative Str boosts would be what is strictly fair to do, but Sniper would need a couple more points in other stats to compensate if Ranger did get that point of Str (or the Crit Plus skill, but that would be too toxic on enemy snipers after already adding Quick Draw... minor note, think that Quick Draw might have a different name in the Skills Patch if my memory serves, not sure, but pretty sure it's in it either way).
Just because I don't want to keep being negative skipping ones I don't disagree on, Lute's promotion fix seems like the most fair way balance things without giving Sage a bunch of Con to make it the better statistical combat option. (Really hope this doesn't mean Mage Knight will be the combat focused option in Troubadour's case, though, since L'Arachel is easily has the niche for the most canonically appropriate S Rank Light magic unit in the game, since it's wasted on Bishops while Sages have Anima, and Staff Rank has already been a huge deciding factor in a lot of your choices for early game Light magic access units. Man, so much for me trying to be positive.)
The Thief and Myrmidon (M) are basically, what is there to be done? Understandable. Would have to be too huge of an overhaul to keep the same flavor if you did want bigger changes anyway.
Natasha is so much farther behind on Staff Rank than Moulder that I feel like the value of Bishop is to the point that Valkyrie deserved to be a bit more combat stat rich compensate. Needs to feel like a choice instead of a consolation prize. Alternatively, add some kind of skill. Think I'll just reserve my judgement on it for the other video at this point, though.
Myrmidon (F), oh man, what does the finale of this half of the colab hold? Honestly, on top of the point of Str you added, I'd have to say just give Marisa an additional +1 gain to every stat other than Move on both promotion options, because she legitimately needs the help for being so incredibly terrible. I'm totally serious, she's too much of a meme. She makes Neimi look competent in comparison. Why do the weakest base classes get the least stat increases on promotion?
Another Fe8 Reblance? YES
FE8's alternate promotion system is sure a great thing but once you know the game most of the choices are so obvious, the only interesting case is the mercenary promotion with a choice between higher mobility or being able to use axe to hit harder and being able to attack from close and long range with the hand axes. The cavalier's promotion would've been more interesting if the great knight class has one more movement point.
I disagree with you onBishop and Slayer, while yes Bishop's don't necessarily have to focus on combat Slayer just makes them great at it in the late game and creature campaign pretty much no matter what, as at it's worst Slayer gives Bishops +8 damage with Lighting tomes, +16 if they double, and it just goes up from there, +12/24 with Shine, +16/32 with Divine, +20/40 with Purge, and +24/48 with Aura, sadly Slayer's triple effectiveness gets overwritten by Ivaldi's inherent double effectiveness, meaning it only gets +17/34 damage instead of +34/68
The only reason to go Sage over Mage Knight is stat caps, if you care about Creature Campaign.
At the very least, choosing assassin over sword master could be worth it if colm died before you got rennac, since you could give joshua the lockpick (assuming it wasnt on colm when he died).
Of course, you could just buy chest keys and door keys on eirika route, but i prefer the lower amount of inventory clutter.
Doesnt get you stealing back though
But I think some things that should take into effect in the choice you make is how far are you taking the game, because the different units have slightly different stat caps, but then that might not matter if your not doing the post game, so the immediate stat gains would be better,
I feel like, sureshot should be making it so you get +accuracy = to your level and any accuracy you have over 100 is transferred into extra crit (not just the accuracy from the skill). This would make sniper the perfect "fuck that unit in particular" unit.
Maybe greatshield could just make generals straight up immune to crit. Rather than a chance of avoiding damage (which is a bit silly for a class that's already focused on mitigating damage). This would make them very focused on having control over whatever happens in the ennemy phase.
Fighter > Hero gets C swords, not D. Also Fighter > Warrior gets E bows, not D. So the hero choice is even more obvious for Garcia (especially because it makes sense with his background as a former knight)
Moulder as a Bishop is straight up better and it is no contest whatsoever. Like you said he won't be entering combat most of the time and when he does it is usually against flying monsters. As a Sage he usually can't one shoot them but as a bishop he almost always can. Also considering that most of the maps near the end game are all monsters without normal units, he can help clear up some annoying units. His bulk is good enough to withstand at least one hit from gargoyles and they are one of the worst monster enemies for majority of the game. Also you have Saleh who is a sage with great stats AND C rank in staff, so there is no reason for any one of your healers to promote to sage. Natasha mag is crap so Sage does nothing to her so she and Moulder depending on his lvl up gains can at least contribute something as Bishops.
I remember having some really strong opinions on the FE8 promotion choices in like 2006, and most of my opinions were dumb
Sorry if this has already been asked but how do u feel about Awakening/Fates improving great knight by keeping their movement stat as is instead of -1? Quick personal opinion: I’m not big on Fates GK generally tho they generally make for excellent backpacks. +1 move backpacks r like automatically good and if u can have +4 def with it too then all the better
Falcon knight now has health, speed, defense, resistance, more weapon triangle control and an actual useful skill over the wyvern. Yeah sounds balanced lmao. (Still loved the video tho)
sage(f) has 30 max mag which she WILL reach, mage knight(f) only has 25 mag max, 5 con fpr sage means only -1 spd on thunder amd theres con rings too
Gilliam promo into General: he learns racism
How about also giving the General "Wary Fighter" or would that be too good?
Yall forgot about lockpick ability when discussing assassin vs swordmaster ):
Yeah, with the assassin class, they gave Jaffar cracked base stats. Man is 1 point from Str Cap
Why didnt assassin's ability to use lockpicks (and lose Steal from thief) get mentioned? Its really the only reason to look at the path.
I like Assassin Joshua because its basically Jaffar. Having a great dodge tank thief without ever training Colm is very nice; pivots him to a support unit that's a solid B in combat from the chapter he joins right until Endgame, where the pathetic Str cap hampers his offense in the final chapters.
I think of assassin's promo it should also get a point of speed to balance the speed sword master gets form con
The ultimate rebalancing classes method (applies to all FE games)
Just nerf the heck out of Wyvern Riders/Knights
🤔 you adjusted the promo bonuses without even addressing stat caps? Interesting...
Seriously though, I'd love to know why you guys think Adhulma's 18 MT and 5 RES is above Garm's 20 MT and 5 SPE.
Adhulma is amazing, and on a speedy unit, even better, but Garm is disgusting. I'm very surprised you guys think Adhulma is superior.
Garm has earlier accessibility on Eph route, more MT, better bonus, and as a result of the bonus, offers the best accuracy among axes, while not being heavy.
I think people tend to use it on the slower axe wielders like Duessel, Ross and Garcia when it is absolutely destructive in the hands of Kyle, Gerik or Franz.
I throw Adhulma on Gerik if he looks to be hitting his SPE thresholds, otherwise I use it on Eirika after spamming her Rapier on rejoin, and Sieglinde on promo.
I would like Adhulma on Franz because he reliably hits his SPE but I prefer the accuracy bonus on S lances for Paladins.
I can understand the appreciation for it, I love the weapon to bits, but aside from Eirika route bias having it earlier, I don't see how it could be heralded as the best weapon, it's not even the best sword imo, that goes to Sieglinde, although it being PRF sword would make sense to not be rated as high.
My initial assumption for that take is simply that Seth cannot wield Garm and Adhulma is stronger than Vidofnir 😂
Generally I agree with most decisions except Wyvern Knight which has basically no use outside of LTCing with Pierce. Falco is just better in basically every way. I don’t think pierce is so good to give Falco basically everything else.
Falco is weighed down by iron lance, I'll go the other path that likes not being weighed down by iron
@@wingofshu who cares if falco is wighed down by iron lance if has 28 speed?
Also the video in the description is private :(
Ah thanks for telling me, I'll fix it!
Before even watching, I can not agree with the synapses in the Description enough. Such a feel-good way to do promotions, such a feel-bad decision to make when nearly every option has clear objective correct or incorrect choice once you have game knowledge.
I haven't tried it but, isn't general with provoke a little broken? I can just have every glass canon ans healer next to the big guy, in an open field, and NEVER lose if the big guy is overleveled. He can carry pocket medics; pocket glass canons, pocket trainees, pocket Dozla, everything!
I believe that if provoke works like in Tellius, it will only manipulate the AI if all units they can attack can both fight back, and survive their attacks. So frail units and weapon less units would still be targets with a general around.
With the speedwings and the Hero promotion, Garcia *can* double most enemies on average, though. He hits like, 13 speed by 20/5? Slap them wings on him and my boy will cook anything that isn't promoted. It's just a matter of him *barely* making those benchmarks, so even like one point of screwage can cripple him. There is still Garm though, at least...
If youve already adjusted one of the classes, then when youre assessing the other "half" of the promotion, shouldn't you be comparing it to the updated class?
For example, when you updated Great Knight relative to Paladin, you should have used the updated Great Knight stats when considering General.
*enjoys at 1.25 speed because i have ADHD
Godspeed my friend!
7:38 what is this Franz slander? Franz is the best and needs no help
i extremely heavily disagree with the notion of "sage for combat, bishop for utility and staves" in artur's case. He's a Light Mage- Monk. He should become a Light Sage-Bishop. Nerfing him in any degree blows, and Sage shouldn't be the class for "Combat" utility. Just keep the Bishop as it is. Buff Sage, don't nerf Bishop LOL it's not broken??
Also insane flavor failure on not giving **Bishop** luck.
But Artur has a way to fix his low luck
supports. The fastest to build are Lute and Neimi .... Now I understand you all buffing his luck, because you don't train Neimi lmao
The Vanilla Peg Knight Promo would be more balanced if sword was good in this game. I think Falcon is good to Vanessa in Distant Blade 0% due to WTA, however, in any other scenario, 4 con is always better.