I just got Reference 3 Metas. They are being driven by Simaudio mono blocks and Simaudio pre amp. Right out of the box, firing right to the room without fine tuning and toe-in, sound has organic resolution with massive scale and 3D imaging. Life size imaging with female vocals and lighting fast speed.
Steve...I find your videos and enthusiasm engaging and informative. You are the go-to-guy for me when I want knowledgeable information. It was especially fun learning that you are a VU and Lou Reed fan. He is for me one of the best examples of the type of singer David Crosby was referring to when he said "Jerry (Garcia) wasn't a good singer, but he was a great singer". Emotion counts for a lot.
I enjoy listening to the music selections you present in your reviews. I've found some exceptional recordings in your reviews. I can afford very few of the components you review, but I enjoy listening to new (to me) music you have introduced me to. Thanks Steve.
Great Review as usual Steve. As an historical "reference", I have a pair of KEF 104/2s purchased in 1987 from a stereo HiFi store in Mt. Kisco NY. Purchased with a NAD 1300 Preamp, NAD 2600 AMP, and a Dual CS5000 TT. I never heard of them in 1987. They were auditioned in the sound room at that time (1987) against Polk, JBLs, and others of the day. The KEFS were crystal clear & clean, no muddiness to the Bass, excellent separation that immediately apparent. That following Sunday after bringing the system home, an article appeared in the Stereo Review section of the Sunday NY Times. They reviewed the KEF 104/2s (tower - 3 way speaker in a beautiful wood cabinet), and they were rated the Number 3 Speaker of the World. I guess I knew what I was hearing !! They play wonderfully to this day in my LR with the same equipment indicated above. No EQs, No SWs, just clean presented sound. When the Santana Abraxis CD was re-issued & re-mastered a little time later, it had a WOW factor.
Steve, I know this is a year old 13:57 video. Still, it provided great value to me. I had ordered the KEF R11 Meta. After this, I cancelled and ordered the KEF Reference 3 Meta.
I'm sure the KEFs are great but the DQ-10s brought an immediate smile to my face! Those are forever etched in my memory as THE speaker which introduced me to the audiophile world. A friend of a friend's older brother had a set of those with a pair of the matching subs and the system was powered by a Sumo Gold amp and an Ampzilla powering the subs, a Threshold preamp and an LP12 turntable. I was so blown away, I sold my MTX speakers and Cerwin Vega sub and other associated junk like a DAK equalizer and ended up with a used set of Tympani 1Ds that changed my listening life forever!
Considering some of the speakers I've seen in Stereophile, these seem like a bargain. KEF seems to have really improved their game compared to 20 years ago.
KEF is the incarnation of slow and steady that wins the race. The Reference series is praised by every review objective and subjective for it's refinement. They successfully ironed out all issues with a conventional speaker and made it look beauftiful. Rarity in audio.
thanks for mentioning VU Live 1993 - great album!! Future days indeed a timeless piece of music.. Re KEF I feel they are perhaps the most advanced company in LS engineering, with all their simulation work, their detailed analysis, seemingly the effort yields great products.. and the LS60 seems to be another milestone.
My first real hifi speakers from 1980 where a DIY speakers with KEF B139 woofers. B110 midrange and Fostex ribbon tweeters, as I couldn’t afford the KEF Concerto kit. I still have these amazing speakers among my collection today. It’s good to hear that KEF are still making quality hi-end speakers today. Thanks for the review.
After watching this review, maybe the Ref 1 ,in 1 yr , if I start saving now. I like the Kef sound , so transparent. My room is not big enough. Nice review Steve.
Thanks Steve, another highly enjoyable review.. Kef keep innovating and coming up with the goodies don't they. Some years back the little ls50's, not the meta version, left a lasting impression. The big brother must be something else ..now to start saving!
Steve, I am reminded of an article written in HFNRR by the late great John Crabbe where he published tests on cabinet baffle shapes with a single full range driver. The response measurements concluded that truncated pyramids and (essentially rounded) edges produced the best results, while placing the driver in a square box was bad, and the worst was placing the driver in the end of a chopped -off cylindrical shaped cabinet. But the over all objective of the article was to address a linguistic trait he had noticed. Sometimes his colleagues would say things like 'reduce' or 'eliminate' diffraction. He pointed out that you cannot reduce diffraction from a drive unit. What Kef are doing is reducing the 'effects' of diffraction, because any drive unit emitting high frequency sound will necessarily have that sound diffract when it meets the surface of the cabinet to which the drive unit is attached. So elimination or even reduction of diffraction is a nonsense. The loudspeaker designer is seeking to 'help' or 'smooth' diffraction effects, in the same way that a designer of erosion-preventing groynes is not. Diffraction is like the Terminator. It cannot be bargained with and it absolutely will not stop. But it can be helped, and it's effects reduced. Keep up the good work !
Love that you used Can Future Days for your review. I only recently discovered this fantastic Krautrock band, and I wondered where they had been all my life
Great review Steve, also your choice of music and tips about room space. Recently heard Reference 5 Meta and Blade 2 Meta at a dealershow. They sounded amazing! I had a pair of Kef R7’s but moved over to Dynaudio. Hope you will review Dynaudio Confidence 20 or 30 someday for some comparisons with this one. Looking forward to your next video! Ronald
Unfortunately the time has come to put up for sale my beloved Walnut KEF R500. my partner said, either she goes or the speakers go. So i bought The Reference 5
Steve, so nice to hear the Meta has added something to the Ref 3, I have the non Meta model, they're my dream purchase after 30 years of working my way up the ladder and one more step seems worth it, but I've got say you might like to try adding the Reference 8b subwoofer, the final few Hz downwards really create the most amazing effect, a number of instruments you wouldn't think are down there just sound complete
When a speaker can unmask the nuances of the human voice to convey a vocalist’s deep personal emotions, that is a parameter that can’t be measured by any test but raises the performance bar to supernatural levels. Listen to Tom Jones “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again” which is kind of my emotional benchmark tune. The subtle jazz waltz feel underneath his powerful vocals is the motor driving that recording. I’d love to hear that on your Cornwalls 🤔
being a fantasy designer - R3 bookshelf type with the 'bass unit' larger, tuned for strong below 40 hz low bass. the KEF 8 inch bass speaker from their Kube SUB, not the super $$ KC62. -, just enlarge the R3 cab 4 inches or so in height... have the Meta LS50 recommended here along with Outlaw Rec. totally fine +. with a sub that is.
Late to the party but many thanks Steve. My first "real" speakers were Kef. These ones are way out of my league, but I can dream. I learned piano as a boy. Our piano tuner was a wonderful man called Bernard Rosenberg. Couldn't read a note of music but was the most amazing pianist I have ever heard. He could play any piece (including full piano concertos etc) note perfect just by listening a few times and getting on with it. As someone who can't play by ear at all I am still insanely jealous after 40 years 😂
I shared a house in St. Paul with a keyboardist/piano tuner for about 7 years so I can relate to how it affects the way you hear a piano. Mostly what I learned from living with a piano tuner was how to move a piano. Also learned how to move a Hammond organ while playing in a band with him. My friend became the regular piano tuner for Prince from just before the Purple Rain period and beyond. I can't afford the speakers, but that's cool. They sound desirable.
if the Kef reference series is anything like the Kef Q750 then the distance between them can make a big difference. Along with room size. My Q750s need space to fill as Steve points out here about the reference series. I suppose if you can afford the Reference speakers then chances are you have a big room.
The most important thing Steve said , and this goes for all Kef uniQ drivers, is that because their sound is dispersed so wide , they need to face straight ahead with no toe in. The Magic of their purpose doesn’t happen toed in.
Even though you are not doing this with measurements, you do seem to have a good ear. I haven't heard these, but based on measurement based reviews of the Reference 1, I'm sure they are world class performers. Own the LS 50 Metas myself, with Purifi Amplification in a small room, so I know how good the Kef's are in their latest iteration. Truly a company comitted to delivering value and performance, rather than just imposing cabinets and Veblen level pricing.
Thanks so much for replying. And the good advice. And taking your valuable time to do so. Like your videos because you’re a guy of “mature” age who’s been involved with Hi/Fi for decades, like myself.
For $15k, I hope the Uni-Q driver doesn't distort when you turn the sound up super loud, like it does with the LS50 and Q350. Seems like that type of metal driver is prone to distortion at high volumes.
They are totally different , the ls 50 bass and tweeter are in the same driver fighting each other. The Ref has separate bass drivers to relieve the uniQ driver.
With this Ref 3 Meta, the mid-freq outer ring of the coax only covers two octaves... with a 450-2k pass-band, all that high current/high excursion work is off loaded to the two LF drivers. Plus, the coax possesses a high power handling capacity... as the voice coil is nice and robust. Point being, you shouldn't encounter limitations of that pass-band.
Some prices we don’t inflation adjust for; we are just sticker shocked. A $28 Lp is really about the same price as a $3.44 lp in 1970, and we get 180 grams of disc material now. My IRS Beta Infinity speakers were $12.5k new in 1989, that would be like $28k today. These Kef speakers would be very attractively priced, if you sent them back to 1990 and adjusted for inflation. But Steve - tell us more about tuning pianos? What did you find difficult, the monotonous nature of it, picky customers, dialing in the perfect vibration? I can only have one person work on my Steinway, there’s a special tuning method he uses that other tuners don’t use, he gets more activity going on in the harmonics during the sustain; like a built in tension, almost an out of tune state, like it’s on the edge. It makes it sound more alive somehow. He was trained in Germany, other tuners make it sound more flat and dull, but correctly in tune. Mysterious process.
An extremely impressive review from you who has heard a ton of great speakers in your day. As a KEF fan boy, myself, I'm not surprised. These speakers in white are the total bomb...absolutely gorgeous and cool IMO. There's a lot of stiff competition in the $15K segment but I'd probably go for these in my dreams. Sending them back will be sad I'm sure. Great review Steve. Can't wait to hear about the more affordable R series with the Meta upgrade...I'd guess in 2023....
Hey Steve Guttenberg. I have owned and heard many loudspeakers in my hobby. For the last 7 years I've had the Kef Reference Model 4.2 and it's amazing how these play. It is very enjoyable to enjoy the sound they produce. The Kef loudspeakers that you show, I heard a few years ago in the Netherlands Roermond Limburg. And yes, these beautiful, great speakers sound formidable. I once asked you if you had ever heard of the Kef Reference Model 4.2. And you said no unfortunately. Maybe someday it will. I hope so. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end. Peace and love. Thank you Steve Guttenberg... P.S. The Kef does need a lot of power to sound excellent. Luckily I have good powerful equipment for it. ✌🏾🌍😘
Here is a paino-tuning story. Back in time, there was a King's piano tuner who was the best in the land he had a son Opernockity. Who went to the finest piano tuning programs in the world, and apprenticed with the legends of the tuning craft. There came the day when Opernockity was to make his piano tunning debut. Accordingly, the best pianists, piano authorities, etc. were in attendance. Oppernockity went to work tinkering here and there until the piano played the most magnificent sounds, sounds so wonderful that the audience was speechless. Then without warning Oppernnockity grabbed his chest and fell over dead! the moral of this tale Oppernockity only tunes once. hahahaha
In Canada, where I happen to live, these loudspeakers sell for $20,000 dollars. LOL They should be "insanely great" because they are insanely expensive.
With respect, the Cornwalls need distance and a bigger room for better coherence, the KEF by design of the coaxial driver will inherently have better coherence at close levels.
STEVE if I could get it I would love to hear Aretha doing Until You Comer Back To Me in a high quality pressing - I cannot think of more sublime performance, and larger ensemble, ever in soul music. What a way to load a room. Although very wise to use Santana and or the ToP, likewise I thin of Los Lobos having sonic character (and my bet all 3 bands start with from the floor full band performances Naturally jazz trio or quartet anything up to Adderley-sized ensembles would be go to test. For that I would seek Cannonball, Nat & Zawinul with Nancy Wilson on Capitol - Ahmad Jamal Outertimeinnerspace on Impulse - and on the outside I would go with Mahavishnu - that bandleader likewise a sound quality freak - and the pick of course Visions Of The Emerald Beyond, engineered by Ken Scott.
I own both the KEF 105.2 & 104.2 which come from way back in 1979 and 1984. Back then these were the top of their Reference Series. I have always loved the sound of them. I haven't been able to afford a listen to the current line, sadly.
Hey Tom, as an owner of a set of KEF 104/2s I hear you. I wish I could afford the new stuff too but it would be hard to give up the sound of these vintage speakers. My brother-in-law has a pair which convinced me to buy mine.
Yes, they are nice. Too much for my living room but I won't part with them. I bought them used about 15 years ago and swapped out the capacitors on the 105.2's. I had to do the donuts on the 104.2's. They are both in such nice condition though and the interesting part of all this to me is that from my kitchen window I can see the entrance of the the old audio dealership where they were sold, a place which was called "Stereo Studio". They have been out of business now for 30 years or so.
Been a long time KEF fan but from a pricing pov these are way out of my league! O well, luckily still happy with my KEF RDM3 so let’s keep enjoying those! 🥳
Nice review. I demoed the non meta Reference 3 in the same room as the Revel 328be. The 328be was on a different level honestly. Way more bass power, cleaner highs that were not edgy, much bigger sound stage, seemed to have limitless output and It is only a few thousand more. I bought the 228be and use subs. The meta would really have to have improved to out perform the 328be. Yes much larger but honestly does a few inches of floor space matter and the 228be is $4k cheaper and you can spend that on subs which gives you almost an end game setup. Also got the Cornwall IV in the same system and it was not for me.
@@mpi5850 not to be argumentative but the Polar plots of both back up my opinion on soundstage and the distortion measurements back up my opinion on dynamics. I can’t add links but Erin’s audio corner, stereophile and ASR all have measurements of the Revel be line and Kef reference line.
@@JamesWilliams-gf8gm so you are the type that prefer a wider dispersion pattern, thats all the data show. Some prefer a narrow directivity speaker. And there are no full spins of the Reference 5 anywhere besides the whitepapers from KEF, so comparable distortion figures are non existent.
@@AbsoluteFidelity I also own the JBL 4367 too which is pretty narrow dispersion but has a fairly wide soundstage in the sweet spot. The Bass texture smokes the kefs, and the highs are cleaner and more details. They are roughly the same price as the Reference 3 and on another level. But you have to accept the horn loaded vocals are not for everyone. I stand by the Revel 328be being the best deal in high-end box speakers right now. It is near perfect. The 228be I also own are ok but need subs as they have weak bass imo. The 4367 really does not need subs and in someways lose texture when high-passed too high. I have been high passing them at 40hz on the JBL and the revels at 60hz (JL subs). No kef hate really. They are ok, Kind of dull in the highs, lacking dynamically and a strong in the port output… just my opinion.
@@JamesWilliams-gf8gm the 4367 do not have narrow dispersion like the KEFs, in fact it has a linear off axis dispersion, dare I say even lifted, compared to the controlled downward sloping KEF. The KEF has a more textbook like measurement, the JBL is great but still non examplary in the particular area just mentioned. The JBL is certainly a bright/lively speaker as seen in the PIR with a flat line from 1 - 6khz. It seems like you in fact prefer a wider dispersion speaker, hence your love for the Revels. All Im saying is this, one might like a type of dispersion pattern over another, there is no right or wrong here. Im in the same boat as you, prefering really wide dispersion over narrower ones, hence why I stick to Focals.
It is always interesting to listen to people who are excited about something. Provided, there is a high level of competence, of course. What a nice break from work :-)
Hi Steve , I am thinking of buying a pai of speakers. After many searches I have kef reference 3 meta and Bower Wilkins 804 D4 in my mind . Which one of these will you consider it the best. Room is about 20 m2 Thanks a lot
Good point, but the lab reference isn't played very long, just to run test tones for a few minutes at a time. So a "new" lab reference is compared with each production reference 3. It's not like they make thousands of these speakers every year.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I understand but it seems that comparing speaker to speaker could be a weak link in testing. Why not compare all new speakers against a given set of parameters in audio testing equipment?
@@timmccary533 2 pairs of speakers are real. How do you compare a pair of speakers to a set of parameters? Looking at a set of parameters or specs can't tell you how a speaker sounds, so comparing a pair useful of speakers to parameters can't tell you anything.
@@AT-wl9yq I completely agree. There are so many factors involved in how a speaker reproduces the signal fed to it. Then, there’s huge variables involving source material, preamp, amplifier and room environment, along with your listening preferences. That’s what makes this hobby absolutely fascinating (and frustrating at times)! The most important thing is enjoying your music and having fun with all the options to reproduce it!
I love the fact that Steve didn't search out "perfect" recordings for his expensive speakers. As someone who mixes records, I know there's no perfect recording. It's all about the music, so picking his favorite artists to hear on these speakers was the right choice. BTW solo piano in many ways is the ultimate test for a system. Giving a listener the sense that a piano is actually in the room is a big challenge for any engineer and playback system.
I agree that a piano is the ultimate speaker test, but isn't the goal to bring the listener to the recording room. and not the recording to the listener's room?
Steve, you said you need a big room for these. I had the Kef R7 Meta and they sounded great in my room but the build quality was not good. I was thinking of upgrading to these, do you think they are similar as far as room size goes?
Hi Steve, i own kef r3, and i am looking to upgrade i have nad m33 amp, which speakers i should get kef reference 1 meta, bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4, focal utopia diablo evo colour,focal sopra 1? which one is your favourite?
Impressive peakers as you have kindly demonstrated. I suspect at some point having an R series and a Referece series will cause confusion...I can hear it now: "Then what exactly does the 'R' stand for if not Reference?"
Thanks Steve! Would at this price level recommend Vandersteen Quattros with built in powered subs, fully adjustable to your room and big natural sound.
Nice review. Definitely prefer towers. You mentioned CCR live recently and I just got their Woodstock performance just released in 2019. Wow this blew me away. Huge bass and rhythm with John Foggerty and the band in their prime. No one sounds better in a car. Not hard to understand how they sold so many records. Interesting story why John didn’t want it released. This and their first album mastered at Abby Road are how I want to hear them. Raw
I had Kef 201/2 years ago. They were fast and sounded really good on most things. Throw on some driving rock and they fell apart. Wonder how these would do with some Megadeth/ Slayer etc? I find this with a lot of “audiophile” speakers. They just sound small and compressed with a lot of music that’s not audiophile approved. Not saying that’s the case here but my intuition tells me put on some hard driving metal and most people would pick the Cornwalls in a heartbeat.
Well, a bit sad to hear that this speaker blows away the Cornwalls (I have the Forte iv’s), but heck, if you’re gonna charge $15k for a pair of speakers, they better deliver the goods. I’m a bit surprised though that you didn’t seem to miss the low watt tube sound with the KEFs…. Is that true, or am I misunderstanding your review? Obviously, with these low sensitivity speakers, you’re pretty much locked in to using high powered solid state amps.
I did. It is impossible to say if the reference 3 worths 6 times more. To my ears, the reference 3 is noticeably better and it has the quality of the high end sound that I long for. I ended up getting a reference 1 since I have a smaller room.
The Brits have always kicked Axx ! Thanks Steve i am such a big Kef Fan Beefy drivers !!! Have Slam !! Bet those sound amazing geez ! Yes i would Bi-amp those bad-boys ! Why ? Electronic Magnetic force 😃
Great review, Steve. I note that my neighbors in Boulder have come up with their ultimate speaker. Do you know PS Audio? I'd be interested in your impressioms.
Do you think having a reference one, the reference one meta is a notable upgrade? Did you have experience with the reference line prior to the meta “upgrade”? Would also love to hear your impression of the integrated LS60 vs the Reference 3 once you experience the new LS60 (I know not apples to apples, but would be interesting since Kef integrated speakers seem to be getting better and better).
I never heard the reference before, any of them. As for the LS 60, it’s not a Steve kind of speaker. The whole it does everything design doesn’t appeal to me.
I KNOW it is like comparing apples and oranges BUT how does it compare to Hifiman Susvara? if you just compare how "good" it sounds. would you rate Susvara or Reference 1 higher? Very curious.
Well it depends. If you really enjoy the sound of headphones, not all of us do, then yes absolutely the Susvara is better way to go. Because it offers superior resolution and clarity. After all you're hearing the direct sound of the recording without any influence of your room. If you generally prefer speakers, well even the best headphones never sound like speakers.
Steve, did you feel like the XA25 was enough power to play them comfortably? As they are a lower sensitivity speaker, would the XA25 (or XA30) be enough to run them in a larger room? Thanks!
Well, in my room the X a 25 definitely had enough power. But in larger rooms, play louder and then I was playing, sure more power would be a good idea.
Wondering on your thoughts of purchasing 4 (2 sets) of the Meta 1 Reference (for each corner of a medium to large sized room)? The pricing would be $3K more than the Ref. 3, but $4K less than the $22K version…all the while, indulging in 4 speakers opposed to 2? Great music choirs during this vid…thx for sharing
"Takes the sound to another level." Those words always frighten me. And once you hear the price, do you really need to hear about anything else? Very entertaining; but if you can't have them, who cares?
I read years ago that Peggy Lee was such a fanatic about great sound that she would send back to her record company stacks of LPs she thought were inferior !!!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I just got Reference 3 Metas. They are being driven by Simaudio mono blocks and Simaudio pre amp. Right out of the box, firing right to the room without fine tuning and toe-in, sound has organic resolution with massive scale and 3D imaging. Life size imaging with female vocals and lighting fast speed.
Steve...I find your videos and enthusiasm engaging and informative. You are the go-to-guy for me when I want knowledgeable information. It was especially fun learning that you are a VU and Lou Reed fan. He is for me one of the best examples of the type of singer David Crosby was referring to when he said "Jerry (Garcia) wasn't a good singer, but he was a great singer". Emotion counts for a lot.
I have the non- meta and love them to bits ❤️
Great to see you that excited! These Kef bring you something special, which is nice after listening to so much stuff!
Right....im going to sell my wife's car and get some of these - she keeps saying she wants to do more exercise!!
I enjoy listening to the music selections you present in your reviews. I've found some exceptional recordings in your reviews. I can afford very few of the components you review, but I enjoy listening to new (to me) music you have introduced me to. Thanks Steve.
Great Review as usual Steve. As an historical "reference", I have a pair of KEF 104/2s purchased in 1987 from a stereo HiFi store in Mt. Kisco NY. Purchased with a NAD 1300 Preamp, NAD 2600 AMP, and a Dual CS5000 TT. I never heard of them in 1987. They were auditioned in the sound room at that time (1987) against Polk, JBLs, and others of the day. The KEFS were crystal clear & clean, no muddiness to the Bass, excellent separation that immediately apparent. That following Sunday after bringing the system home, an article appeared in the Stereo Review section of the Sunday NY Times. They reviewed the KEF 104/2s (tower - 3 way speaker in a beautiful wood cabinet), and they were rated the Number 3 Speaker of the World. I guess I knew what I was hearing !! They play wonderfully to this day in my LR with the same equipment indicated above. No EQs, No SWs, just clean presented sound. When the Santana Abraxis CD was re-issued & re-mastered a little time later, it had a WOW factor.
Steve, I know this is a year old 13:57 video. Still, it provided great value to me. I had ordered the KEF R11 Meta. After this, I cancelled and ordered the KEF Reference 3 Meta.
How do you like the Reference 3 Meta's? I am looking to purchase these now and doing my research.
I'm sure the KEFs are great but the DQ-10s brought an immediate smile to my face! Those are forever etched in my memory as THE speaker which introduced me to the audiophile world. A friend of a friend's older brother had a set of those with a pair of the matching subs and the system was powered by a Sumo Gold amp and an Ampzilla powering the subs, a Threshold preamp and an LP12 turntable. I was so blown away, I sold my MTX speakers and Cerwin Vega sub and other associated junk like a DAK equalizer and ended up with a used set of Tympani 1Ds that changed my listening life forever!
I have been waiting for this one. Great review Steve. Much appreciated. I hope there will be a Reference 1 Meta review later on. Thanks again!
Dont wait, place your order in now. They are selling fast!
Considering some of the speakers I've seen in Stereophile, these seem like a bargain. KEF seems to have really improved their game compared to 20 years ago.
KEF's Dr. Jack Oclee-Brown is a speaker engineering genius
KEF is the incarnation of slow and steady that wins the race. The Reference series is praised by every review objective and subjective for it's refinement. They successfully ironed out all issues with a conventional speaker and made it look beauftiful. Rarity in audio.
loved this one, never get tired of Steve...
thanks for mentioning VU Live 1993 - great album!! Future days indeed a timeless piece of music..
Re KEF I feel they are perhaps the most advanced company in LS engineering, with all their simulation work, their detailed analysis, seemingly the effort yields great products.. and the LS60 seems to be another milestone.
My first real hifi speakers from 1980 where a DIY speakers with KEF B139 woofers. B110 midrange and Fostex ribbon tweeters, as I couldn’t afford the KEF Concerto kit. I still have these amazing speakers among my collection today. It’s good to hear that KEF are still making quality hi-end speakers today. Thanks for the review.
After watching this review, maybe the Ref 1 ,in 1 yr , if I start saving now. I like the Kef sound , so transparent. My room is not big enough. Nice review Steve.
You're the best of the best -- I've learned so much for you over the years. Thank you!
Thanks!
You can not judge the scale of music that a speaker can produce simply by looking at them. Nice review Steve.
Great review Steve, you're very good explaining stereo gear.
Thanks Steve, another highly enjoyable review.. Kef keep innovating and coming up with the goodies don't they. Some years back the little ls50's, not the meta version, left a lasting impression. The big brother must be something else ..now to start saving!
I watch your review mostly for your good music recommendations ,thanks for sharing ! greets from Chile !
Steve, I am reminded of an article written in HFNRR by the late great John Crabbe where he published tests on cabinet baffle shapes with a single full range driver. The response measurements concluded that truncated pyramids and (essentially rounded) edges produced the best results, while placing the driver in a square box was bad, and the worst was placing the driver in the end of a chopped -off cylindrical shaped cabinet. But the over all objective of the article was to address a linguistic trait he had noticed. Sometimes his colleagues would say things like 'reduce' or 'eliminate' diffraction. He pointed out that you cannot reduce diffraction from a drive unit. What Kef are doing is reducing the 'effects' of diffraction, because any drive unit emitting high frequency sound will necessarily have that sound diffract when it meets the surface of the cabinet to which the drive unit is attached. So elimination or even reduction of diffraction is a nonsense. The loudspeaker designer is seeking to 'help' or 'smooth' diffraction effects, in the same way that a designer of erosion-preventing groynes is not. Diffraction is like the Terminator. It cannot be bargained with and it absolutely will not stop. But it can be helped, and it's effects reduced. Keep up the good work !
Love that you used Can Future Days for your review. I only recently discovered this fantastic Krautrock band, and I wondered where they had been all my life
Great review Steve, also your choice of music and tips about room space. Recently heard Reference 5 Meta and Blade 2 Meta at a dealershow. They sounded amazing! I had a pair of Kef R7’s but moved over to Dynaudio. Hope you will review Dynaudio Confidence 20 or 30 someday for some comparisons with this one. Looking forward to your next video! Ronald
Which Dynaudio’s do you own? How would you compare the metas to your speakers? I’m a big fan of Dynaudio so I’m really curious. Thanks
Unfortunately the time has come to put up for sale my beloved Walnut KEF R500. my partner said, either she goes or the speakers go. So i bought The Reference 5
Steve, so nice to hear the Meta has added something to the Ref 3, I have the non Meta model, they're my dream purchase after 30 years of working my way up the ladder and one more step seems worth it, but I've got say you might like to try adding the Reference 8b subwoofer, the final few Hz downwards really create the most amazing effect, a number of instruments you wouldn't think are down there just sound complete
When a speaker can unmask the nuances of the human voice to convey a vocalist’s deep personal emotions, that is a parameter that can’t be measured by any test but raises the performance bar to supernatural levels. Listen to Tom Jones “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again” which is kind of my emotional benchmark tune. The subtle jazz waltz feel underneath his powerful vocals is the motor driving that recording. I’d love to hear that on your Cornwalls 🤔
Really fun to see you review a pair of tower speakers!
being a fantasy designer - R3 bookshelf type with the 'bass unit' larger, tuned for strong below 40 hz low bass. the KEF 8 inch bass speaker from their Kube SUB, not the super $$ KC62. -, just enlarge the R3 cab 4 inches or so in height... have the Meta LS50 recommended here along with Outlaw Rec. totally fine +. with a sub that is.
Late to the party but many thanks Steve. My first "real" speakers were Kef. These ones are way out of my league, but I can dream. I learned piano as a boy. Our piano tuner was a wonderful man called Bernard Rosenberg. Couldn't read a note of music but was the most amazing pianist I have ever heard. He could play any piece (including full piano concertos etc) note perfect just by listening a few times and getting on with it. As someone who can't play by ear at all I am still insanely jealous after 40 years 😂
I used to have the ref 1 bookshelf non meta. Amazing speakers. Wish I still had em. I think i'll have to get these next!
Santana 3 is my Santana reference and It took me thirty years to get back to it.
Neil Shon was 17 on that great record!
I shared a house in St. Paul with a keyboardist/piano tuner for about 7 years so I can relate to how it affects the way you hear a piano. Mostly what I learned from living with a piano tuner was how to move a piano. Also learned how to move a Hammond organ while playing in a band with him. My friend became the regular piano tuner for Prince from just before the Purple Rain period and beyond.
I can't afford the speakers, but that's cool. They sound desirable.
if the Kef reference series is anything like the Kef Q750 then the distance between them can make a big difference. Along with room size. My Q750s need space to fill as Steve points out here about the reference series. I suppose if you can afford the Reference speakers then chances are you have a big room.
That is usually true with any floor standing speakers.
The most important thing Steve said , and this goes for all Kef uniQ drivers, is that because their sound is dispersed so wide , they need to face straight ahead with no toe in. The Magic of their purpose doesn’t happen toed in.
Depends on your room/setup. I have owned many KEF uniq speakers. Some setups sound best straight, some toed in and some even slightly toed out.
Even though you are not doing this with measurements, you do seem to have a good ear. I haven't heard these, but based on measurement based reviews of the Reference 1, I'm sure they are world class performers. Own the LS 50 Metas myself, with Purifi Amplification in a small room, so I know how good the Kef's are in their latest iteration. Truly a company comitted to delivering value and performance, rather than just imposing cabinets and Veblen level pricing.
waiting for them to do an r3 bookshelf meta since the reg one was a five star from many reviewers
I wish reviewers would listen to my favorite type music when evaluating speakers. Loud, lush, dynamic Symphonic Classical music.
You might find reviewers that refer to classical in Stereophile and Absolute Sound reviews. Unlikely to find them on RUclips.
Thanks so much for replying. And the good advice. And taking your valuable time to do so. Like your videos because you’re a guy of “mature” age who’s been involved with Hi/Fi for decades, like myself.
For $15k, I hope the Uni-Q driver doesn't distort when you turn the sound up super loud, like it does with the LS50 and Q350. Seems like that type of metal driver is prone to distortion at high volumes.
Distortion almost always is from LOW POWER.
LS-50 Metas play very loud with no distortion.
They are totally different , the ls 50 bass and tweeter are in the same driver fighting each other. The Ref has separate bass drivers to relieve the uniQ driver.
With this Ref 3 Meta, the mid-freq outer ring of the coax only covers two octaves... with a 450-2k pass-band, all that high current/high excursion work is off loaded to the two LF drivers.
Plus, the coax possesses a high power handling capacity... as the voice coil is nice and robust.
Point being, you shouldn't encounter limitations of that pass-band.
Is the Kef 104/2 better?
Some prices we don’t inflation adjust for; we are just sticker shocked. A $28 Lp is really about the same price as a $3.44 lp in 1970, and we get 180 grams of disc material now. My IRS Beta Infinity speakers were $12.5k new in 1989, that would be like $28k today. These Kef speakers would be very attractively priced, if you sent them back to 1990 and adjusted for inflation.
But Steve - tell us more about tuning pianos? What did you find difficult, the monotonous nature of it, picky customers, dialing in the perfect vibration? I can only have one person work on my Steinway, there’s a special tuning method he uses that other tuners don’t use, he gets more activity going on in the harmonics during the sustain; like a built in tension, almost an out of tune state, like it’s on the edge. It makes it sound more alive somehow. He was trained in Germany, other tuners make it sound more flat and dull, but correctly in tune. Mysterious process.
lolz.
I love my LS 50 Metas and also my KEF R11’ ( neighbour not keen on my R11’ 🫣🫣🫣🤣🤣🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶)
An extremely impressive review from you who has heard a ton of great speakers in your day. As a KEF fan boy, myself, I'm not surprised. These speakers in white are the total bomb...absolutely gorgeous and cool IMO. There's a lot of stiff competition in the $15K segment but I'd probably go for these in my dreams. Sending them back will be sad I'm sure. Great review Steve. Can't wait to hear about the more affordable R series with the Meta upgrade...I'd guess in 2023....
you should place an order now! Dont wait, they may be gone by the time you press BUY button.
Thank you Steve, I'm enjoying Aretha in Paris because of your review. Great album 😍
Hey Steve Guttenberg. I have owned and heard many loudspeakers in my hobby. For the last 7 years I've had the Kef Reference Model 4.2 and it's amazing how these play. It is very enjoyable to enjoy the sound they produce. The Kef loudspeakers that you show, I heard a few years ago in the Netherlands Roermond Limburg. And yes, these beautiful, great speakers sound formidable. I once asked you if you had ever heard of the Kef Reference Model 4.2. And you said no unfortunately. Maybe someday it will. I hope so. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end. Peace and love. Thank you Steve Guttenberg...
P.S. The Kef does need a lot of power to sound excellent. Luckily I have good powerful equipment for it.
✌🏾🌍😘
Here is a paino-tuning story. Back in time, there was a King's piano tuner who was the best in the land he had a son Opernockity. Who went to the finest piano tuning programs in the world, and apprenticed with the legends of the tuning craft.
There came the day when Opernockity was to make his piano tunning debut. Accordingly, the best pianists, piano authorities, etc. were in attendance.
Oppernockity went to work tinkering here and there until the piano played the most magnificent sounds, sounds so wonderful that the audience was speechless. Then without warning Oppernnockity grabbed his chest and fell over dead! the moral of this tale Oppernockity only tunes once. hahahaha
I'll never get my hands on the KEF's, but thanks-a-million for the CAN recommendation!
Nice that you like that VU live recording.
I like it also very much. When it came out the critics burned it down......
In Canada, where I happen to live, these loudspeakers sell for $20,000 dollars. LOL They should be "insanely great" because they are insanely expensive.
With respect, the Cornwalls need distance and a bigger room for better coherence, the KEF by design of the coaxial driver will inherently have better coherence at close levels.
STEVE if I could get it I would love to hear Aretha doing Until You Comer Back To Me in a high quality pressing - I cannot think of more sublime performance, and larger ensemble, ever in soul music. What a way to load a room. Although very wise to use Santana and or the ToP, likewise I thin of Los Lobos having sonic character (and my bet all 3 bands start with from the floor full band performances
Naturally jazz trio or quartet anything up to Adderley-sized ensembles would be go to test. For that I would seek Cannonball, Nat & Zawinul with Nancy Wilson on Capitol - Ahmad Jamal Outertimeinnerspace on Impulse - and on the outside I would go with Mahavishnu - that bandleader likewise a sound quality freak - and the pick of course Visions Of The Emerald Beyond, engineered by Ken Scott.
wow, and only 15k!!! I'll go out and pick up a pair today.
I own both the KEF 105.2 & 104.2 which come from way back in 1979 and 1984. Back then these were the top of their Reference Series. I have always loved the sound of them. I haven't been able to afford a listen to the current line, sadly.
Hey Tom, as an owner of a set of KEF 104/2s I hear you. I wish I could afford the new stuff too but it would be hard to give up the sound of these vintage speakers. My brother-in-law has a pair which convinced me to buy mine.
Yes, they are nice. Too much for my living room but I won't part with them. I bought them used about 15 years ago and swapped out the capacitors on the 105.2's. I had to do the donuts on the 104.2's. They are both in such nice condition though and the interesting part of all this to me is that from my kitchen window I can see the entrance of the the old audio dealership where they were sold, a place which was called "Stereo Studio". They have been out of business now for 30 years or so.
@@tomdavis6371 - cool story! Be well
The Polk R700 don’t look too bad for a much lower entry point.
Been a long time KEF fan but from a pricing pov these are way out of my league!
O well, luckily still happy with my KEF RDM3 so let’s keep enjoying those! 🥳
Nice review. I demoed the non meta Reference 3 in the same room as the Revel 328be. The 328be was on a different level honestly. Way more bass power, cleaner highs that were not edgy, much bigger sound stage, seemed to have limitless output and It is only a few thousand more. I bought the 228be and use subs. The meta would really have to have improved to out perform the 328be. Yes much larger but honestly does a few inches of floor space matter and the 228be is $4k cheaper and you can spend that on subs which gives you almost an end game setup. Also got the Cornwall IV in the same system and it was not for me.
That’s your opinion.
@@mpi5850 not to be argumentative but the Polar plots of both back up my opinion on soundstage and the distortion measurements back up my opinion on dynamics. I can’t add links but Erin’s audio corner, stereophile and ASR all have measurements of the Revel be line and Kef reference line.
@@JamesWilliams-gf8gm so you are the type that prefer a wider dispersion pattern, thats all the data show. Some prefer a narrow directivity speaker. And there are no full spins of the Reference 5 anywhere besides the whitepapers from KEF, so comparable distortion figures are non existent.
@@AbsoluteFidelity I also own the JBL 4367 too which is pretty narrow dispersion but has a fairly wide soundstage in the sweet spot. The Bass texture smokes the kefs, and the highs are cleaner and more details. They are roughly the same price as the Reference 3 and on another level. But you have to accept the horn loaded vocals are not for everyone.
I stand by the Revel 328be being the best deal in high-end box speakers right now. It is near perfect. The 228be I also own are ok but need subs as they have weak bass imo. The 4367 really does not need subs and in someways lose texture when high-passed too high. I have been high passing them at 40hz on the JBL and the revels at 60hz (JL subs).
No kef hate really. They are ok, Kind of dull in the highs, lacking dynamically and a strong in the port output… just my opinion.
@@JamesWilliams-gf8gm the 4367 do not have narrow dispersion like the KEFs, in fact it has a linear off axis dispersion, dare I say even lifted, compared to the controlled downward sloping KEF. The KEF has a more textbook like measurement, the JBL is great but still non examplary in the particular area just mentioned. The JBL is certainly a bright/lively speaker as seen in the PIR with a flat line from 1 - 6khz. It seems like you in fact prefer a wider dispersion speaker, hence your love for the Revels. All Im saying is this, one might like a type of dispersion pattern over another, there is no right or wrong here. Im in the same boat as you, prefering really wide dispersion over narrower ones, hence why I stick to Focals.
Fever by Peggy Lee is one my favorites - old but good recording
It is always interesting to listen to people who are excited about something. Provided, there is a high level of competence, of course. What a nice break from work :-)
15000$ is exactly the same price as the Audiovector R3 Arrete. They are amazing
Hi Steve ,
I am thinking of buying a pai of speakers.
After many searches I have kef reference 3 meta and Bower Wilkins 804 D4 in my mind .
Which one of these will you consider it the best.
Room is about 20 m2
Thanks a lot
As the factory reference speaker breaks in over time doesn’t that change the standard for the freshly built speakers being compared with it?
Good point, but the lab reference isn't played very long, just to run test tones for a few minutes at a time. So a "new" lab reference is compared with each production reference 3. It's not like they make thousands of these speakers every year.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I understand but it seems that comparing speaker to speaker could be a weak link in testing. Why not compare all new speakers against a given set of parameters in audio testing equipment?
Wise comment.
@@timmccary533 2 pairs of speakers are real. How do you compare a pair of speakers to a set of parameters? Looking at a set of parameters or specs can't tell you how a speaker sounds, so comparing a pair useful of speakers to parameters can't tell you anything.
@@AT-wl9yq I completely agree. There are so many factors involved in how a speaker reproduces the signal fed to it. Then, there’s huge variables involving source material, preamp, amplifier and room environment, along with your listening preferences. That’s what makes this hobby absolutely fascinating (and frustrating at times)! The most important thing is enjoying your music and having fun with all the options to reproduce it!
I love the fact that Steve didn't search out "perfect" recordings for his expensive speakers. As someone who mixes records, I know there's no perfect recording. It's all about the music, so picking his favorite artists to hear on these speakers was the right choice. BTW solo piano in many ways is the ultimate test for a system. Giving a listener the sense that a piano is actually in the room is a big challenge for any engineer and playback system.
I agree that a piano is the ultimate speaker test, but isn't the goal to bring the listener to the recording room. and not the recording to the listener's room?
Good recording rooms are pretty dry and neutral sounding so, at least in my case, I definitely want to bring the music into your listening room.
How much better is the reference 3 meta versus the r7 meta? What I get spending the extra cash? Considering a 40-50 qm room.
Steve, you said you need a big room for these. I had the Kef R7 Meta and they sounded great in my room but the build quality was not good. I was thinking of upgrading to these, do you think they are similar as far as room size goes?
Would you prefer Focal Sopra over the Reference 3?
Hi Steve, i own kef r3, and i am looking to upgrade i have nad m33 amp, which speakers i should get kef reference 1 meta, bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4, focal utopia diablo evo colour,focal sopra 1? which one is your favourite?
All of the speakers you listed are good choices
Impressive peakers as you have kindly demonstrated. I suspect at some point having an R series and a Referece series will cause confusion...I can hear it now: "Then what exactly does the 'R' stand for if not Reference?"
I think it stands for almost Reference😄
It would be helpful if you could compare those Kefs with similar priced speakers such as B&W's, etc....
Hi! These or La Scalas? (or the ref 5 maybe...) 🤔
Thanks Steve! Would at this price level recommend Vandersteen Quattros with built in powered subs, fully adjustable to your room and big natural sound.
I liked the Kef Reference 5 Meta better than the Kef Blade 2 Meta
Best kept secret in Kef's line right now !
so the specs show a frequency response of 43Hz - 35KHz....this wouldn't indicate a speaker with a lot of bass....what would your experience say?
Nice review. Definitely prefer towers. You mentioned CCR live recently and I just got their Woodstock performance just released in 2019. Wow this blew me away. Huge bass and rhythm with John Foggerty and the band in their prime. No one sounds better in a car. Not hard to understand how they sold so many records. Interesting story why John didn’t want it released. This and their first album mastered at Abby Road are how I want to hear them. Raw
I had Kef 201/2 years ago. They were fast and sounded really good on most things. Throw on some driving rock and they fell apart.
Wonder how these would do with some Megadeth/ Slayer etc? I find this with a lot of “audiophile” speakers. They just sound small and compressed with a lot of music that’s not audiophile approved. Not saying that’s the case here but my intuition tells me put on some hard driving metal and most people would pick the Cornwalls in a heartbeat.
Right, sounds like you're looking for big horn speakers!
Well, a bit sad to hear that this speaker blows away the Cornwalls (I have the Forte iv’s), but heck, if you’re gonna charge $15k for a pair of speakers, they better deliver the goods. I’m a bit surprised though that you didn’t seem to miss the low watt tube sound with the KEFs…. Is that true, or am I misunderstanding your review? Obviously, with these low sensitivity speakers, you’re pretty much locked in to using high powered solid state amps.
What price amp and cd player do you need to get the best out of these speakers?
I wonder if the R3 Meta is close?? At 1/6th the price. Anyone heard them both.😊
I did. It is impossible to say if the reference 3 worths 6 times more. To my ears, the reference 3 is noticeably better and it has the quality of the high end sound that I long for. I ended up getting a reference 1 since I have a smaller room.
When it takes 5:03 minutes of build-up BEFORE the price is quoted... You know it will be HUGE 😆
1:35 he mentionned already that's "It's a very expensive speaker" =D attach your seatbelt!
The Brits have always kicked Axx !
Thanks Steve i am such a big Kef Fan
Beefy drivers !!! Have Slam !!
Bet those sound amazing geez !
Yes i would Bi-amp those bad-boys ! Why ? Electronic Magnetic force 😃
Hello I was wondering if I should go for a 80w b&w or kef reference 5
if you’d like to contact me i can assist in your buying decision
@@audioexperience hello, I contacted you via Instagram if thats ok.
@@iliyadkarami1979 i think you sent it to another account - mine is @audioexperiencect
@@audioexperience got it thank you, I went ahead and contacted you on Instagram
Hi Steve... in terms of square footage what would you consider a small/med/large listening space.
Great review, Steve. I note that my neighbors in Boulder have come up with their ultimate speaker. Do you know PS Audio? I'd be interested in your impressioms.
Yes, I know the company, but I have not heard the speaker. Considering it’s extreme size and weight that might take some doing.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac - they have a new, smaller, version !
No wonder why they only make as you order they are richmans prices
The design of these speakers are insane! How interesting.
wasn't aware enough of the musical giant Peggy Lee is. thanks Steve. Oh, and btw, Vitamin C, by Can, is absolutely stellar!
Do you think having a reference one, the reference one meta is a notable upgrade? Did you have experience with the reference line prior to the meta “upgrade”? Would also love to hear your impression of the integrated LS60 vs the Reference 3 once you experience the new LS60 (I know not apples to apples, but would be interesting since Kef integrated speakers seem to be getting better and better).
I never heard the reference before, any of them. As for the LS 60, it’s not a Steve kind of speaker. The whole it does everything design doesn’t appeal to me.
Understood, thanks Steve.
Question; "If there's 4 and 2ohms, why not 12 and 16ohm?"
I KNOW it is like comparing apples and oranges BUT how does it compare to Hifiman Susvara? if you just compare how "good" it sounds. would you rate Susvara or Reference 1 higher? Very curious.
Well it depends. If you really enjoy the sound of headphones, not all of us do, then yes absolutely the Susvara is better way to go. Because it offers superior resolution and clarity. After all you're hearing the direct sound of the recording without any influence of your room. If you generally prefer speakers, well even the best headphones never sound like speakers.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Reasonable and insightful answer. I think it was also what I needed. Thanks. And great review. Keep it up! Subscribed.
These appear identical to my Ref 1s (non-meta). Would a person likely be able to hear the extra $1000 between Ref 1 meta vs non-meta?
I would assume so, since the difference between LS50 and LS50 Meta was quite noticeable, but this is just speculation for the REF 1/Meta
meta adds a tremendous amount of additional improvement in sound
Steve, did you feel like the XA25 was enough power to play them comfortably? As they are a lower sensitivity speaker, would the XA25 (or XA30) be enough to run them in a larger room? Thanks!
Well, in my room the X a 25 definitely had enough power. But in larger rooms, play louder and then I was playing, sure more power would be a good idea.
Thanks Steve. Do the KEF reference deliver a forward presentation like the LS50’s? Thanks
Not sure how to answer other than to say the LS50 META sounds like a small speaker, the Ref 3 META sounds BIG!
Wondering on your thoughts of purchasing 4 (2 sets) of the Meta 1 Reference (for each corner of a medium to large sized room)? The pricing would be $3K more than the Ref. 3, but $4K less than the $22K version…all the while, indulging in 4 speakers opposed to 2?
Great music choirs during this vid…thx for sharing
if you contact me i’d be happy to help answer that question for you
Steve. How's it hanging? What are the name of the pants or diffusers behind the speakers?
GIK Acoustics
"Wait a minute man!!!" Brilliant
"Takes the sound to another level." Those words always frighten me. And once you hear the price, do you really need to hear about anything else? Very entertaining; but if you can't have them, who cares?
I read years ago that Peggy Lee was such a fanatic about great sound that she would send back to her record company stacks of LPs she thought were inferior !!!
What would you recommend for low level listening? Any stand out mentions?
That’s a very general question, but generally speaking high sensitivity speakers from JBL, Klipsch, ZU would be where to start.
Steve, you should review the Genelec 8361a.
I totally get the sadness point, you need a reallly neutral speaker to reveal this.
These or Focal Kanta 3? Same insane price.
if you’d like to contact me i can help you decide which is best for you
Why do you need a phono preamp if you are using the pass labs preamp?
Because the Pass preamp doesn’t have a built in phono preamp